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This has probably been posted hundreds of times before, but I don't remember the answer, so let me ask: where did the famous lineage M1 originate?
Posts: 7094 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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Simple; it was never submitted to any journal to begin with, and that's because the posting was not made with a publication in a journal in mind. Do you know of *good* science journals that publish responses to already published science journals? I'll be glad to check them out.
-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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M1 was originated in Asia, from MTDNA M* and did a Back to Africa migration.
Posts: 1106 | From: Puerto Rico | Registered: Aug 2007
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^ This topic was discussed in a thread before, specifically against Clyde using M1 to show an African (recent) origin for the Dravidians. But without a search engine, I hope somebody can dig it up again. This also reminds me of another thread on whether or not U6 is African or Asian. Hopefully someone can dig that up to.
Posts: 26307 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Based on the high frequency and diversity of haplogroup M in India and elsewhere in Asia, some authors have suggested (versus [3]) that M may have arisen in Southwest Asia [16,17,31]. Finding M1 or a lineage ancestral to M1 in India, could help to explain the presence of M1 in Africa as a result of a back migration from India. Yet, to date this has not been achieved [15], this study). Therefore, one cannot rule out the still most parsimonious scenario that haplogroup M arose in East Africa [3]. Furthermore, the lack of L3 lineages other than M and N (indeed, L3M and L3N) in India is more consistent with the African launch of haplogroup M. On the other hand, one also observes that: i) M1 is the only variant of haplogroup M found in Africa; ii) M1 has a fairly restricted phylogeography in Africa, barely penetrating into sub-Saharan populations, being found predominantly in association with the Afro-Asiatic linguistic phylum – a finding that appears to be inconsistent with the distribution of sub-clades of haplogroups L3 and L2 that have similar time depths. — Mait Metspalu et al.
quote: We found 489C (Table 3) in all Indian and eastern-African haplogroup M mtDNAs analysed, but not in the non-M haplogroup controls, including 20 Africans representing all African main lineages (6 L1, 4 L2, 10 L3) and 11 Asians.
These findings, and the lack of positive evidence (given the RFLP status) that the 10400 C->T transition defining M has happened more than once, suggest that it has a single common origin, but do not resolve its geographic origin. Analysis of position 10873 (the MnlI RFLP) revealed that all the M molecules (eastern African, Asian and those sporadically found in our population surveys) were 10873C (Table 3). As for the non-M mtDNAs, the ancient L1 and the L2 African-specific lineages5, as well as most L3 African mtDNAs, also carry 10873C.
Conversely, all non-M mtDNAs of non-African origin analysed so far carry 10873T. These data indicate that the **transition 10400 C-->T, which defines haplogroup M**, arose on an African background characterized by the ancestral state 10873C, which is also present in four primate (common and pygmy chimps, gorilla and orangutan) mtDNA sequences. — Semino et al.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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^ It's times like this I wish we have a search engine. Rasol, Thought, and others gave a more detailed explanation of why M1 is not Asian, actually showing the difference in signature marks.
All of this was done in a refutation of Clyde's claim that Indian M and its derivatives is a result of African M1. But apparently some stubborn people like 'prmiddleeastern' don't understand. The same way people like Osirion claim U6 is also Asian and its presence in Africa is the result of back-migration. The same answer to that is the same.
Posts: 26307 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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^^^^Wouldn't the following be a short but concise explanation of the African origin of M1? Doesn't this actually show differences?
quote:The coding regions transitions are likely to change relatively slower than those of hypervariable segments, and hence, likely to remain intact within a clade. To assist in determining which clade to place a monophyletic unit, key coding region transitions have to be identified. In the case of M1, we were told:
We found 489C (Table 3) in all Indian and eastern-African haplogroup M mtDNAs analysed, but not in the non-M haplogroup controls, including 20 Africans representing all African main lineages (6 L1, 4 L2, 10 L3) and 11 Asians.
These findings, and the lack of positive evidence (given the RFLP status) that the 10400 C->T transition defining M has happened more than once, suggest that it has a single common origin, but do not resolve its geographic origin. Analysis of position 10873 (the MnlI RFLP) revealed that all the M molecules (eastern African, Asian and those sporadically found in our population surveys) were 10873C (Table 3). As for the non-M mtDNAs, the ancient L1 and the L2 African-specific lineages5, as well as most L3 African mtDNAs, also carry 10873C.
Conversely, all non-M mtDNAs of non-African origin analysed so far carry 10873T. These data indicate that the **transition 10400 C-->T, which defines haplogroup M**, arose on an African background characterized by the ancestral state 10873C, which is also present in four primate (common and pygmy chimps, gorilla and orangutan) mtDNA sequences. — Semino et al.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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Hey DJ try using that pea brain of yours and "attempt" a response. All you did was waffle. You are such a spinelesss weasel. At least Knowledge has some back bone even if some may disagrre with him.
Grow some nuts family. Unfortunately you cannot grow brains.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ This topic was discussed in a thread before, specifically against Clyde using M1 to show an African (recent) origin for the Dravidians. But without a search engine, I hope somebody can dig it up again. This also reminds me of another thread on whether or not U6 is African or Asian. Hopefully someone can dig that up to.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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Hey! Just because I can't back up my claims that Greek classical philosophy was "home grown" and I merely coat tail other posters all day long because I lack intellectual ability and originality doesn't mean you have to go call me spineless!
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Hey DJ try using that pea brain of yours and "attempt" a response. All you did was waffle. You are such a spinelesss weasel. At least Knowledge has some back bone even if some may disagrre with him.
^ This coming from the moron who thinks whites are not indigenous to Europe and could not comprehend basic reading material here for how many pages. You also talke about being spineless when all you've been doing is ad-hominem attacks while all the while posing as a black person when you're really a white loser!
quote:Grow some nuts family. Unfortunately you cannot grow brains.
What?? What about my family? LOL It's obvious you are nuts! I have brains, but unlike you I actually use mine! Posts: 26307 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Ass-oben: Hey! Just because I can't back up my claims that Greek classical philosophy was "home grown" and I merely coat tail other posters all day long because I lack intellectual ability and originality doesn't mean you have to go call me spineless!
quote:Djehuti wrote several times: Nope. I did back up the FACTS in that thread you linked with basic historical facts that James got wrong, but you claimed it to be mere repetition of Lefkowitz when instead it is common historical knowledge. We also discussed in this thread here how there was Egyptian influence on Greek philosophy that the Greeks themselves made no attempt to hide and therefore it wasn't "stolen", and that such influence stretched farther back to archaic times and NOT Classical times.
quote:Djehuti also wrote: Actually his (Eva's/wako-ako's) tactic since his first wretched appearance on this forum is to pretend to be an Africanist, yet all the while hide his own biggoted anti-jewish agenda. He cites Afrocentric books and sources he thinks can back up agenda by discrediting Jews both ancient and modern. Hence, his constant troll-crazed advocations of George James' book Stolen Legacy! I merely pointed out James' book is wrong due to basic historical errors on his part, as well as the fact that the Greeks never denied their Egyptian heritage, and what does he do?! He resorts to ad-hominem attacks, claiming I'm an advocate of Mary Lefkowitz! LOL It's more than likely he cited James' book in the first place solely to discredit Lefkowitz herself more than actually refuting her work Not Out of Africa. Yet apparently the derranged nazi forgot that Lefkowitz's work is a rebuttal to Martin Bernal's book Black Athena and that Bernal himself if also Jewish!! LOL
I bet Eva has never read James' work (unlike I) or any other Africanist scholar like Mostafa Gadalla, Molefi Asante, or Diop!! He is a pathetic liar as well as a biggot, and now the foolish nazi jackass only exposes his anti-African bias in this thread! LMAO
There goes Eva's ass... again! hee-haaw-hee-hee-haaw-haaw-heePosts: 26307 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Akoben really means: Hey! Just because I hate Jews, I try to discredit them anyway I can. So to discredit Lefkowitz I cite James' book 'Stolen Legacy' even though I never read it and say the Greeks stole their classical philosophy even though that obviously was not the case at all! My stupid self even forgot that Lefkowitz's work is a rebuttal to another Jewish scholar but I don't want to attack him because I know it will discredit myself! I merely harass Djehuti all day long because I lack intellectual ability and originality and I'm a spineless, nutless biggot who feels the need to project my feelings of biggotry on to him. (I chose Djehuti, cuz I really have a cursh on him and since he's Filipino, I thought he'd reciprocate my homosexual feelings, but like everything else I was wrong!! )
Please Djehuti! Screw my ass or kick it!!
Posts: 26307 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:The mtDNA Legacy of the Levantine Early Upper Palaeolithic in Africa Anna Olivieri,1 Alessandro Achilli,1 Maria Pala,1 Vincenza Battaglia,1 Simona Fornarino,1 Nadia Al-Zahery,1,2 Rosaria Scozzari,3 Fulvio Cruciani,3 Doron M. Behar,4 Jean-Michel Dugoujon,5 Clotilde Coudray,5 A. Silvana Santachiara-Benerecetti,1 Ornella Semino,1 Hans-Jürgen Bandelt,6 Antonio Torroni1* Sequencing of 81 entire human mitochondrial DNAs (mtDNAs) belonging to haplogroups M1 and U6 reveals that these predominantly North African clades arose in southwestern Asia and moved together to Africa about 40,000 to 45,000 years ago. Their arrival temporally overlaps with the event(s) that led to the peopling of Europe by modern humans and was most likely the result of the same change in climate conditions that allowed humans to enter the Levant, opening the way to the colonization of both Europe and North Africa. Thus, the early Upper Palaeolithic population(s) carrying M1 and U6 did not return to Africa along the southern coastal route of the "out of Africa" exit, but from the Mediterranean area; and the North African Dabban and European Aurignacian industries derived from a common Levantine source.
I can't critique it as I have no way to access the full text.
^ This coming from the moron who thinks whites are not indigenous to Europe and could not comprehend basic reading material here for how many pages. You also talke about being spineless when all you've been doing is ad-hominem attacks while all the while posing as a black person when you're really a white loser!
Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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Hey YH. Instead of hanging on my dick trying responding to a post or two. TRex just posted a good one. Your response. . . . . .
quote:Originally posted by Herukhuti:
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:xyyman:
^ This coming from the moron who thinks whites are not indigenous to Europe and could not comprehend basic reading material here for how many pages. You also talke about being spineless when all you've been doing is ad-hominem attacks while all the while posing as a black person when you're really a white loser!
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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The mtDNA Legacy of the Levantine Early Upper Palaeolithic in Africa Anna Olivieri,1 Alessandro Achilli,1 Maria Pala,1 Vincenza Battaglia,1 Simona Fornarino,1 Nadia Al-Zahery,1,2 Rosaria Scozzari,3 Fulvio Cruciani,3 Doron M. Behar,4 Jean-Michel Dugoujon,5 Clotilde Coudray,5 A. Silvana Santachiara-Benerecetti,1 Ornella Semino,1 Hans-Jürgen Bandelt,6 Antonio Torroni1* Sequencing of 81 entire human mitochondrial DNAs (mtDNAs) belonging to haplogroups M1 and U6 reveals that these predominantly North African clades arose in southwestern Asia and moved together to Africa about 40,000 to 45,000 years ago. Their arrival temporally overlaps with the event(s) that led to the peopling of Europe by modern humans and was most likely the result of the same change in climate conditions that allowed humans to enter the Levant, opening the way to the colonization of both Europe and North Africa. Thus, the early Upper Palaeolithic population(s) carrying M1 and U6 did not return to Africa along the southern coastal route of the "out of Africa" exit, but from the Mediterranean area; and the North African Dabban and European Aurignacian industries derived from a common Levantine source. 1 Dipartimento di Genetica e Microbiologia, Università di Pavia, Via Ferrata 1, 27100 Pavia, Italy. 2 Department of Biotechnology, College of Science, University of Baghdad, Iraq. 3 diDipartimento di Genetica e Biologia Molecolare, Università "La Sapienza," Piazzale Aldo Moro 5, 00185 Rome, Italy. 4 Molecular Medicine Laboratory, Rambam Health Care Campus, Efron 9 Street, Bat Galim, 31096 Haifa, Israel. 5 Centre d'Anthropologie, FRE 2960 CNRS, Université Paul Sabatier, Toulouse III, 37, Allées Jules Guesde, 31073 Toulouse Cedex, France. 6 Department of Mathematics, University of Hamburg, Bundesstrasse 55, 20146 Hamburg, Germany. * To whom correspondence should be addressed. E-mail: torroni@ipvgen.unipv.it An "out of Africa" dispersal of modern humans is now widely accepted, together with a model postulating a single "southern route" dispersal from the Horn of Africa to the Persian/Arabian Gulf and further along the tropical coast of the Indian Ocean to Southeast Asia and Australasia (1–3). Within this model, however, the delayed settlement of most parts of West Eurasia needs an explanation. In contrast with South Asians, East Asians, and Australasians, West Eurasians have only a moderate amount of haplogroup-level diversity within mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) haplogroups N and R (the early derivative of N) but lack almost completely haplogroup M, which is otherwise dominant in Asia (Fig. 1). The colonization of West Eurasia is thought to have been the result of an offshoot of the colonization along the southern route, followed by a lengthy pause, perhaps at the Persian/Arabian Gulf, until the climate improved and the ancestors of West Eurasians were able to enter first the Levant and then Europe (2, 4, 5). Paleoenvironmental evidence is crucial to this argument, suggesting that an earlier migration toward the north >50 thousand years ago (ka) would have been impossible given the climate of the time, with desert extending from North Africa to Central Asia (6).
In contrast, a clade of M, referred to as M1, is present at high frequencies in the Horn of Africa and appears to be predominantly African-specific (Fig. 1 and table S1). This raises the possibility that M could have arisen in East Africa before the out of Africa exit (7, 8), or M1 might represent a back-migration into East Africa (9–11). The scenario of a back-migration into Africa is supported by another feature of the mtDNA phylogeny. Haplogroup M's Eurasian sister clade, haplogroup N, which has a very similar age to M and no indication of an African origin, includes R, which in turn embraces haplogroup U (Fig. 1). Haplogroup U is subdivided into numerous clades (U1 to U9) and is characterized by an extremely broad geographical distribution ranging from Europe to India and Central Asia (12). However, one of its clades—U6—is mainly found in northern Africans (13, 14) but is also observed in eastern Africans (11), a situation that parallels that of M1, with the only difference being that M1 is more common in East Africa than in North Africa. The hypothesis of a back-migration from Asia to Africa is also strongly supported by the current phylogeography of the Y chromosome variation, because haplogroup K2 and paragroup R1b*, both belonging to the otherwise Asiatic macrohaplogroup K, have been observed at high frequencies only in Africa (15, 16). However, because of the relatively low molecular resolution of the Y chromosome phylogeny as compared to that of the mtDNA, it was impossible to come to a firm conclusion about the precise timing of this dispersal (15, 16). To shed some light on haplogroups M1 and U6 in Africa, we sequenced mtDNA genomes belonging to M1 (n = 51) and U6 (n = 30) from populations distributed over the geographical range of the two haplogroups. The phylogenies of the M1 and U6 sequences are illustrated in Figs. 2 and 3, respectively. The average sequence divergence [± standard error computed as in (17)] of the 51 M1 coding-region sequences from the root of haplogroup M1 is 7.16 ± 1.38 substitutions (disregarding indels and pathological mutations), which corresponds to a coalescence time estimate of 36.8 ± 7.1 thousand years (ky) for the entire haplogroup M1 (18). The M1 tree shows an initial deep split into two sister subclades, M1a and M1b, each containing several independent basal branches, at least seven within M1a and two within M1b (Fig. 2). The M1a branch shows a coalescence time of 28.8 ± 4.9 ky (5.60 ± 0.96 substitutions). The other major branch of the tree, M1b, is also ancient, with an estimated coalescence time of 23.4 ± 5.6 ky (4.55 ± 1.08 substitutions), but in contrast to M1a, which encompasses the entire geographical range of M1, M1b is present only in the Mediterranean area (fig. S1). Haplogroup U6 is characterized by an overall coalescence time estimate of 45.1 ± 6.9 ky (8.77 ± 1.34 substitutions) (Fig. 3), and U6a (the most represented of its clades) has a coalescence time of 37.5 ± 4.3 ky (7.29 ± 0.83 substitutions). It is worth emphasizing that U6 is a sister clade of the European haplogroup U5 (Fig. 1), which is dated 41.4 ± 9.2 ka (12) and was most likely carried by the first European settlers (19). The overall coalescence age estimates for M1 ( 37 ky) and U6 ( 45 ky) are largely overlapping when standard errors are considered. This supports the scenario that M1 and U6 could have been involved in the same population expansion and dispersal events. Given that the origin of haplogroup U is West Asia and that the presence of U6 in Africa is due to gene flow from that area, the phylogeographic similarities between the two haplogroups indicate that M1 (or its molecular ancestor) is also of western Asian ancestry. This suggests that there was a migration event about 40 to 45 ka that concomitantly affected both haplogroups. An ancient arrival of M1 in Africa (or in its close proximity) is supported by the fact that none of the numerous M haplogroups in Asia (20, 21) harbors any of the distinguishing M1 root mutations, and by the lack of Asian-specific clades within M1 (and U6), as might be expected in the case of a more recent arrival. The arrival of M1 and U6 in Africa 40 to 45 ka would temporally overlap with the event(s) that led to the peopling of Europe by modern humans. This raises the possibility that the population(s) harboring M1, U6, and U5 (or their close molecular ancestors) were all living in the same broad geographic area of southwestern Asia, possibly in separate regional enclaves, and that they all were affected by an event that led to their expansion and relocation. It has been proposed that a change in climate conditions, fragmenting and reducing the desert areas (6), allowed humans to enter first the Levant and then Europe (4). However, such a climatic change would also render North Africa equally accessible from the Levant. Thus, while populations bearing U5 took part in the colonization of Europe, populations with M1 and U6 entered North Africa. Such a scenario implies that the population(s) harboring M1 and U6 did not return to Africa along the southern coastal route of the out of Africa exit but from the Mediterranean area. The Greenland Interstadial 12, from 44 to 48 ka (22, 23), could have been the main period of dispersal into the Levant and subsequently into North Africa. Furthermore, the distribution of M1b and most of the U6 clades only in Mediterranean regions indicates that both M1 and U6 differentiated into their major subclades while they were in the Mediterranean area, and only later some subsets of M1a (including its derivatives M1a1 and M1a2), U6a2, and U6d diffused to East Africa, possibly along the Nile Valley. It cannot be excluded that a further late dispersal of M1 and U6 within North and East Africa might have been associated with the diffusion, after the Last Glacial Maximum, of the emerging Afro-Asiatic language family. Indeed, M1 and U6 in Africa are mostly restricted to Afro-Asiatic–speaking areas. In the Holocene, some of the M1 and U6 clades were involved in subsequent migration and colonization events. For instance, M1a1b1 is found only in Sardinia (Fig. 2), where it is also fairly frequent (1.8%). Its estimated coalescence age of 7.7 ± 3.1 ky suggests that the founding M1a1b mtDNA was brought to Sardinia by the first modern humans that arrived to the island. A similar scenario can be envisioned for U6b1, which was typical of the Guanches (24), the ancestral population of the Canary Islands. Our phylogeographic studies of mtDNA haplogroups reinforce the scenario that the first Upper Paleolithic cultures in North Africa (Dabban) and Europe (Aurignacian) had a common source in the Levant (14, 25, 26) and in fact spread by migration from some core area in the Levantine Corridor. The dispersal of Levantine people to Europe and North Africa was then marked by the mtDNA haplogroups U5 and U6/M1, respectively
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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ABSTRACT Some Researchers argue that there should be more cooperation between Anthropologist and population geneticists due to the confounding variables that can influence patterns of interaction between populations andpopulation structure generally, which are usually unknown by molecular biologists who know only the molecular evidence. They argue that the absence of cooperation between these groups may be the cause of disparity between the dates for Indian haplogroups among different population geneticists and interpretations of Indian populations.
For example, many researchers claim that the Indian M haplogroup originated in situ among Dravidian speakers,because haplogroup M1 is only found in East Africa. Using molecular evidence we find that M1 is not isolated in East Africa. The molecular evidence indicates that M1 is spread across Sub-Saharan Africa, Arabia/Yemen and is even found in India; while the Indian haplogroup M3 is found on the Horn of Africa, Arabia/Yemen, and Iran along a migration path to South India, which is congruent with anthropological, linguistic and archaeological evidence that suggest a recent African origin for the Dravidian speakers in Nubia.
posted
So YH. Are you a gay Nigerian? Never came across one before. Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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^ I'm sure you're BRIGHT ENOUGH to have anticipated me asking your motivation for saying "Thank you xyyman" right after he tries to slander me.
Of course I know what you're logically thanking him for, but that's besides the point.
Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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Hey I am messing with you YH. I fully support your views on Nigeria. When will they develop their own Nuclear Program. The trend these days is to use the oil windfall to develop alternative forms of energy.
I read back in the 70's Nigeria had there own Nuclear Program along with South Africa.
What's the word?
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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