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Author Topic: Hippie apes make war as well as love, study finds
Ed Hurst Frost
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quote:

By Michael KahnPosted 2008/10/13 at 1:35 pm EDT

LONDON, Oct. 13, 2008 (Reuters) — Despite their reputation as lovers not fighters of the primate world, bonobos actually hunt and eat other great apes, German researchers said Monday.

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"Bonobo apes, primates unique to Congo and humankind's closest relative, groom one another at a sanctuary just outside the capital Kinshasa, October 31, 2006. REUTERS/Finbarr O'Reilly "

Their findings, the first direct evidence of hunting by the so-called "hippie" apes, show that such behavior is not linked to male dominance as females rule bonobo society and also go on hunts.

"We always have this view that hunting is a male business," said Gottfried Hohmann of the Max-Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Leipzig, Germany. "What our study shows is this is not necessarily the case.

"This has implications for models on early humans that people have proposed how humans have evolved," said Hohmann, whose findings are published in Current Biology.

Bonobos, chimpanzees and orangutans, collectively known as the great apes, are the closest genetic relatives to humans and scientists study their behavior to learn more about our own evolution.

The apes are generally considered more peaceful than their close cousins, the chimps, and have a reputation for free-loving ways because sex plays a major role their society, being used for greetings, conflict resolution and reconciliation.

Scientists had thought bonobos, found in the lowland forest south of the river Congo, only ate small animals such as squirrels, forest antelopes and rodents they encountered.

But over five years of observing a group of bonobos the researchers recorded about 10 instances when a group of the apes set out on hunting trips in search of chimpanzees.

Each time the bonobos silently crept through the woods on the ground, trying to get underneath a group of chimps before clambering up a tree in a sudden attack, the researchers said.

The bonobo hunts were successful on fewer than half the excursions and in some cases shared the meat, evidence they were willing to share to encourage group hunting, Hohmann and colleagues said.

(Editing by Will Dunham and Opheera McDoom)

http://www.newsdaily.com/stories/tre49c66c-us-bonobos-hunting/



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JujuMan
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^ Were the Chimps hunted Albino ones?

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state of mind

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Ed Hurst Frost
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quote:

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The Bonobo (IPA: /bə'noʊboʊ/[3], Pan paniscus), until recently usually called the Pygmy Chimpanzee (and less often the Dwarf or Gracile Chimpanzee),[4] is one of the two species making up the chimpanzee genus, Pan. The other species in genus Pan is Pan troglodytes, or the Common Chimpanzee. Although the name "chimpanzee" is sometimes used to refer to both species together, it is usually understood as referring to the Common Chimpanzee. The Bonobo is endangered, and is found in the wild only in the Democratic Republic of Congo. Along with the Common Chimpanzee, the Bonobo is the closest relative to Humans. Since neither species are proficient swimmers, it is possible that the formation of the Congo River 1.5–2 million years ago lead to the speciation of the Bonobo, which live south of the river, from the ancestors of the Common Chimpanzee, which live north of the river.[5]

German anatomist Ernst Schwarz is credited with having discovered the Bonobo in 1928, based on his analysis of a skull in the Tervuren museum in Belgium that had been thought to have belonged to a juvenile chimpanzee. Schwarz published his findings in 1929. In 1933, American anatomist Harold Coolidge offered a more detailed description of the Bonobo, and elevated it to species status. The species is distinguished by relatively long legs, parted hair on their head, a matriarchal culture, and the prominent role of sexual activity in its society.

This primate is mainly frugivorous, but supplements its diet with leaves and sometimes small vertebrates (such as flying squirrels and infant duikers[6]) and invertebrates.[7]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonobo


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Ed Hurst Frost
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Bonobo: The Forgotten Ape.

quote:


'French-kissing' is totally absent in the chimpanzee, which engages in rather platonic kisses. This explains why a new zookeeper familiar with chimpanzees once accepted a kiss from a male bonobo. Was he taken aback when he suddenly felt the ape's tongue in his mouth! (p. 103) [Big Grin]

Loaded with beautiful color photographs and descriptions of one of the most interesting species on the planet, Bonobo is an essential book for anyone even remotely interested in primates. If you don't mind visitors to your house looking at pictures of distant relatives in various sexual positions then it will also make a great coffee table book!

I had previously read Richard Dawkins' critique of de Waal which made me think the book would be filled with 'bad science'. Although Dawkins claims and/or alludes to various scientific weaknesses in Good Natured, none of those appeared here. In fact, if what Dawkins says is true about his previous work, de Waal has done a complete about face in this one (with regard to bonobos being claimed to be more closely related to us then chimpanzees and bonobos somehow being human role models). It is interesting that both de Waal and Dawkins criticize Margaret Mead based on the unbalanced work of Derek Freeman while completely ignoring the more fair treatments such as that given by Hal Hellman.

One of the main themes of Bonobo is the parent-offspring relationship in primates. In particular, de Waal tests the waters with his evolutionary scenario as to why infanticide gets started or is reduced (in the case of bonobos) based on the family and social relationships. In a nutshell, de Waal believes that female dominance and obscured paternity are the two key elements to reduced infanticide. There are numerous other factors that lead up to the female's position and paternity issues--the discussion of which is very interesting.

I have only a couple suggestions regarding the text. Occasionally, especially in later chapters, the dialogue becomes repetitive. It almost seems as if more words are added just to keep the picture/text ratio in tact rather than to illuminate new features of the bonobo. Also, it would be very interesting to hear what happens when (if?) bonobos are socialized with chimpanzees. I realize this probably doesn't happen in the wild due to the Zaire River, but does it happen in captivity? If it does or if it has been tried (on purpose or accidentally) in the past it would present interesting findings towards the nurture vs. nature debate. Would chimp and/or bonobo behavior change (more closely resembling each other's)? Would the bonobos be as sexual with chimps as they are with each other? Would they be able to produce offspring? If so, would the hybrid be fertile? These kinds of questions are not discussed, but the answers would be fascinating. Perhaps bonobos haven't had any contact with chimps in captivity since they were discovered to be a separate species early in the 20th Century.

Bonobo is a pleasure to read. My three- and one-year olds both love the pictures too. Whatever your age, you will likely find the pictures and the lives of these apes intriguing.

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from the publisher:

"Here at last is a book that will give the fourth great ape the visibility that this wonderful species deserves. You will learn that bonobos are not just 'little' chimpanzees, but are every bit as different from chimpanzees as chimpanzees are from gorillas. If you care about the great apes, this book, with its superb photographs and vivid text, is a must." --Jane Goodall

"Not since the publication of Jane Goodall's field research on chimpanzees, In the Shadow of Man, has a book on infra-human primates appeared with the potential to truly startle and broaden our thinking." --Publishers Weekly, starred review

"Introduce[s] the popular audience to this long-lost cousin of humanity. And what a fine introduction it is! De Waal . . . writes in a conversational style that shows respect for the animals as well as real affection. . . . Lanting's photographs, many from the field, highlight some of de Waal's major points: bonobos not only look like people, they often act like people and form humanlike relationships. . . . Bonobo is a delightful romp in the world of another species and a pleasant consciousness-raising session about our closest evolutionary relatives." --Meredith Small, The Sciences

"Exciting, amusing, and beautiful." --Alison Jolly, International Journal of Primatology

This remarkable primate with the curious name is challenging established views on human evolution. The bonobo, least known of the great apes, is a female-centered, egalitarian species that has been dubbed the "make-love-not-war" primate by specialists. In bonobo society, females form alliances to intimidate males, sexual behavior (in virtually every partner combination) replaces aggression and serves many social functions, and unrelated groups mingle instead of fighting. The species's most striking achievement is not tool use or warfare but sensitivity to others.

In the first book to combine and compare data from captivity and the field, Frans de Waal, a world-renowned primatologist, and Frans Lanting, an internationally acclaimed wildlife photographer, present the most up-to-date perspective available on the bonobo. Focusing on social organization, de Waal compares the bonobo with its better-known relative, the chimpanzee. The bonobo's relatively nonviolent behavior and the tendency for females to dominate males confront the evolutionary models derived from observing the chimpanzee's male power politics, cooperative hunting, and intergroup warfare. Further, the bonobo's frequent, imaginative sexual contacts, along with its low reproduction rate, belie any notion that the sole natural purpose of sex is procreation. Humans share over 98 percent of their genetic material with the bonobo and the chimpanzee--is it possible that the peaceable bonobo has retained traits of our common ancestor that we find hard to recognize in ourselves?

Eight superb full-color photo essays offer a rare view of the bonobo in its native habitat in the rain forests of Zaire as well as in zoos and research facilities. Additional photographs and highlighted interviews with leading bonobo experts complement the text. This book points the way to viable alternatives to male-based models of human evolution and will add considerably to debates on the origin of our species. Anyone interested in primates, gender issues, evolutionary psychology, and exceptional wildlife photography will find a fascinating companion in Bonobo: The Forgotten Ape.

"Bonobo provides a tantalizing introduction into the natural history of one of our closest living relatives and uniquely enhances our understanding of our own place in Nature. Anyone who has the pleasure of reading this book will come away with deeper insights into why we humans behave the way we do. We should not be afraid of acknowledging the Bonobo in all of us." --Don Johanson, Director, Institute of Human Origins

"With this book, de Waal and Lanting ask us to give bonobos their due--to be considered along side the better known common chimpanzee as close human cousins. How nice to have the peaceable, sexy, bonobo added to the path of human evolution! Bonobos represent the silver lining in our ape heritage." --Meredith Small, author of What's Love Got to Do With It? The Evolution of Human Mating

"As a chronicler of natural history today, Frans Lanting is a singular, extraordinary talent. He has the mind of a scientist, the heart of a hunter, and the eyes of a poet. He is as persistent, adaptable, and hard as the wild creatures he observes. His bonobo photographs bring us face-to-face with a group of highly endangered apes. Eerily, aspects of their behavior mirror our own." --Thomas R. Kennedy, Director of Photography, National Geographic Society

Frans de Waal is C.H. Candler Professor of Primate Behavior and Director, Living Links Center, Emory University. He is the author of several books, including Chimpanzee Politics (1982) and Good Natured: The Origins of Right and Wrong in Humans and Other Animals (1996). Frans Lanting is one of the world's leading nature photographers and the recipient of many prestigious awards. His work appears regularly in National Geographic, Life, and other magazines. His books include Okavango: Africa's Last Eden (1993), Eye to Eye (1997), and Forgotten Edens (1993).

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS writes -- Call them the sexy apes. Or the feminist apes. Or the gentle apes.

But for some scientists, they can be downright inconvenient apes -- because the little-known bonobo is hurting theories that human behavior evolved from warlike, male-dominated chimps.

Bonobos are just as related to people as are chimps. But the females are clearly in charge. They're peaceful. More intriguing: They have sex all the time, not to procreate but to settle conflict or get to know each other -- and unlike other animals, they have it face-to-face with some French kissing thrown in.

"We may be more bonobo-like than we want to admit," says Frans de Waal, a primatologist at the Yerkes Regional Primate Center whose new book, Bonobo: The Forgotten Ape, is one of the first major works on the rare species.

De Waal sees the roots of cognition in a bonobo named Kakowet, who spotted zookeepers turning on water valves and realized they would flood a nearby moat where infant apes were playing. Kakowet warned the zookeeper and helped rescue the babies.

The ability to view the world from someone else's perspective -- in this case, to realize the babies would be in the path of rushing water and cannot swim -- is advanced thinking once thought unique to humans, de Waal said.

The nation's largest primate research center is bringing together neuroscientists, geneticists and behavior experts to shed new light on human evolution: Using our closest living relatives -- the apes -- to explain how human cognition and behavior evolved.

"By understanding chimps, maybe we'll understand ourselves a wee bit better," explained Tom Insel, chief of the Yerkes Regional Primate Center, which is setting up the Living Links project on human evolution.

One chief project will be identifying ape genes to match with the neurologic and behavior findings. Human DNA is 98.4 percent identical to the DNA of chimps and bonobos.

"What is it in that other 1.6 percent that makes us different from them? That's the critical question," said de Waal.

Bonobos live in just one remote corner of the world, the deep rainforests of Congo. Scientists didn't begin seriously studying them until the 1970s. Fewer than 100 are in captivity. There's no word yet on how well they survived last year's bloody civil war in Congo -- Japanese experts only recently ventured back into the bush.

Bonobos have smaller heads, slimmer necks and longer legs than chimps, and a more humanlike posture. They're rather stylish, with red lips and distinctive black hair parted down the middle.

Females are only 85 percent as big as males, yet they band together to take charge. Females leave their original group when they're grown, migrating into new bonobo societies where they bond with other females to establish a spot in the hierarchy.

Unlike chimps, female bonobos control choice food: Males hang around the periphery until they're offered a bite. A male's rank depends on his mother's social standing.

Chimps often fight viciously, especially with strangers, even taking over territory by killing the adult males. Bonobos rarely fight. Videos of groups meeting in the wild show them nervous and shrieking but not physically attacking. Gradually, the females approach each other and initiate cautious sexual contact.

And sex among bonobos is reminiscent of the Kamasutra. It's not just male-female -- they have same-gender sex, oral sex, masturbation, group sex. Like humans, they have face-to-face intercourse, making scientists wonder if they're more emotionally intimate than other animals. In zoos, the average bonobo initiates sexual contact every 1 1/2 hours.

Why? De Waal says Bonobos basically resolve power issues with sex: It eases conflict, signals friendliness and calms stressful situations.



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Ed Hurst Frost
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quote:

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Don't be lulled by the hypnotic cuteness of these photos of Anjana the chimpanzee and her baby white tiger friends Mitra and Shiva at The Institute of Greatly Endangered and Rare Species in South Carolina. When the chimps start raising tigers, we're only a few years away from total world domination by our simian cousins. More pics after the jump. So you can, you know, study these deadly enemies of mankind. (Images from Barcroft Media)
http://gawker.com/5062381/monkeys-form-dangerous-but-adorable-alliance-with-tigers


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Ed Hurst Frost
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Ed Hurst Frost
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This one reminds me of a Developer chap that used to work under me. I think his name was Richard Mason (ginger guy).

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Whatbox
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Cute apes n stuff but are we pushing buttons here?

I.e., this "ginger guy", I bet a couple of the losers here are familiar with him if he's a certain, particular ginger guy. [Wink]

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Ed Hurst Frost
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Bonobo tendencies?

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Ed Hurst Frost
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Chimpanzee tendencies?

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ArtistFormerlyKnownAsHeru
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Interesting observations Ed.
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ArtistFormerlyKnownAsHeru
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quote:
Originally posted by Ed Hurst Frost:
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This one reminds me of a Developer chap that used to work under me. I think his name was Richard Mason (ginger guy).

Really? Well that throws light on the subject, especially since this is a Chimp and not a Bonobo.

It appears Chimps have evolved less "human qualities" than Bonobos.

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ArtistFormerlyKnownAsHeru
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Does anyone know: from what apes the 'Homosapiens' evolved from?

I would like to do some research on just exactly how humans emerged from these Great apes.

I think this Ed guy is on to something.

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xyyman
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You are REALLY REALLY not bright. I hate to be on your case bro but. . . . .

Humans did not come/evolve from apes.. . .. *sigh*

On this board for how long and did not get that? Plus did you finish your evolutionary courses in HIGH SCHOOL.

The ancestor of BOTH apes and homo is NOT in existence. It probably died off over a million years ago? Where is DJ when you need him? He probably has this memorize. And has a Evolution for dummies post somewhere.


@ YH - try to spend more time educating yourself instead of talkin trash and picking fights with strangers.

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ArtistFormerlyKnownAsHeru
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^ Why are you picking fights? Why don't you be a good boy and explain instead of insulting me.

Or perhaps you don't know and don't even have the mental capacity to know. [Smile]

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Ed Hurst Frost
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quote:
Originally posted by xyyman:

The ancestor of BOTH apes and homo is NOT in existence. It probably died off over a million years ago? Where is DJ when you need him? He probably has this memorize.

Nonesense! You evolved from the common Chimpanzee and you know it!

I think the Blacks came from Bonobos. This is my observation and I don't care what your DJ says.

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xyyman
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that's right! ****NONESENSE**** [Wink] . Don't want to waste my time. bye.

@ YH. Check out the many OOA threads. Especially the one that someone asked "why Africa has the perfect conditions for evolution"

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Djehuti
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It's not bad enough that this thread has NOTHING to do with the subject of this forum but now we have this...

quote:
Originally posted by Ed Hurst Frost:

Nonesense! You evolved from the common Chimpanzee and you know it!

I think the Blacks came from Bonobos. This is my observation and I don't care what your DJ says.

ROTFL [Big Grin]

Correction, Ed. Homonids does NOT descend from Chimps or Bonobos but rather from a common ancestor of those species. After which there was a split between early Homonids and the ancestor of chimps and bonobos. Recent DNA evidence suggest there was still interbreeding between ancestral chimps and homonids during the divergence but eventually such breeding ceased and homonids became completely seperated species wise from chimps. This is why Chimps are seen as our 'siblings' or cousins species wise and NOT our ancestors!

Oh and Bonobos are NOT the ancestors of blacks no more than Chimps are the ancestors of whites! No doubt you probably think this because bonobos have black skin and chimpazees pale skin. *All* humans and perhaps even the genus Homo when it began loosing body hair were originally black! Lighter skin evolved among those human populations that left the tropics later on and have nothing to do with other primate relatives!

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xyyman
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Keep in mind the skin of the ancestors, homo and apes, may of been white. ie under the hair.

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Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming

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Ed Hurst Frost
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quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
Recent DNA evidence suggest there was still interbreeding between ancestral chimps and homonids during the divergence

No doubt the descendants of the Chimps have mixed with the descendants of the Bonobos. This is quite clear when we look at human populations.
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ArtistFormerlyKnownAsHeru
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quote:
Originally posted by xyyman:
Keep in mind the skin of the ancestors, homo and apes, may of been white. ie under the hair.

LEARN to USE the English language properly old man. It's "may have been" not "may of been".
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Shady Aftermath
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OK so what I'm picking up from Djehuti is that apes and hominids are usually pale skinned .. and then all of a sudden a Black skinned hominid arrived and TRUMPED all the pale apes. This Brand New Hominid was to be the ancestors of all humans. Is my understanding correct?

Please help.

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[Big Grin]

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Djehuti
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quote:
Originally posted by xyyman:

Keep in mind the skin of the ancestors, homo and apes, may of been white. ie under the hair.

Actually different species of apes have different skin color. Bonobos and gorillas for instance are black compared to chimps and orangs who have lighter skin. NON of this however has nothing to do with the genus Homo whose skins were black since they lost their body fur.

quote:
Originally posted by Ed Hurst Frost:

No doubt the descendants of the Chimps have mixed with the descendants of the Bonobos. This is quite clear when we look at human populations.

This makes no sense. Some Chimps have mixed with some bonobos, but what does this have to do with humans?!!

This is what we get when folks misinterpret science. [Roll Eyes]

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BrandonP
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Actually chimp complexions are quite varied. Some are indeed white but others are black or grayish.

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Djehuti
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^ Either way, chimp skin color has NOTHING to do with human skin color.
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AGÜEYBANÁ II (Mind718)
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quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ Either way, chimp skin color has NOTHING to do with human skin color.

Indeed, as we can see from the following when our species homo sapien/modern humans, became human, they lost their fur, to be able to sweat, being that they were in equatorial East Africa their skin would have had to evolve(if pink) to darkly pigmented(black) to be able to provide the skin with enough protection from the sun. This is basic science anyone who denies it, must have a hard time understanding.


Dark skin evolved with the loss of 'fur' in hominids and is the original state of all homo sapiens. - Jablonski. [2000]

The original human population would have been very dark, similar to, today's equatorial Africans. - Jablonski [2006]

By 1.2 million years ago, all people having descendants today had exactly the receptor protein of today's Africans; their skin was Black, and the intense sun *killed off the progeny with any whiter skin* that resulted from mutational variation in the receptor protein- - (Rogers 2004:107).

Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Whatbox
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quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:
Originally posted by xyyman:

Keep in mind the skin of the ancestors, homo and apes, may of been white. ie under the hair.

Actually different species of apes have different skin color. Bonobos and gorillas for instance are black compared to chimps and orangs who have lighter skin. NON of this however has nothing to do with the genus Homo whose skins were black since they lost their body fur.

quote:
Originally posted by Ed Hurst Frost:

No doubt the descendants of the Chimps have mixed with the descendants of the Bonobos. This is quite clear when we look at human populations.

This makes no sense. Some Chimps have mixed with some bonobos, but what does this have to do with humans?!!

This is what we get when folks misinterpret science. [Roll Eyes]

Dje, he "may of been" (note my British UK accent [Big Grin] ) jiving at some of our gay visitors from the office through the thread. Why do you think zzz-man was a little heated (every post he makes, you can read him like a book) when he initially posted?

Not sure about the Ginger guy situation though.

I thought apr-ess-cee feared the ginger guy. Guess it's the black/white thing.

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ArtistFormerlyKnownAsHeru
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There are two Ginger dudes within the apres-scee conceptual scope. However, one of them is their God. And he told them (the whole team including the 'team lead' - this is FACT! [Big Grin] ) to GTFOO scee. Kicked them out the garden so to speak. [Big Grin]

Djehuti is right, that Ed guy has limited comprehension skills. A bit of a retard. But I think he means well.

Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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