posted
Now after reading some of the amusing yet annoying posts by Argyle about slavery and clicking a link I wound up on a website that was against the notion of Slave Reparations. The site claimed 10 reasons why Black Americans do not need reparations....I was intrigued but I was soon let down by the writers general lack of historical knowledge, painting the European as the savior and blacks as the masterminds....
Now Im not for any slave reparations...I don't want a handout from a bunch of poeple that expect me to use affimative action and welfare to make it in America. I don't NEED reparations...my family were strong people we made it...Nor would I accept a Reparation Check....
[ 29. December 2008, 11:09 PM: Message edited by: Henu ]
Posts: 8805 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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As to reparations, 35% of African Americans live below the poverty level. Don't fukk it up for this HUGE percentage because your family was more lucky.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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posted
And of course Horowitz is all for Jewish reparations and the annual $3 to $10 billion bailout for Israel.
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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As I studied Surinam slavery, I had to think about this ‘Reparation’ business. Some of it is, of course, a racket with educated Blacks ripping of un-educated Blacks. Then I hated the idea that these ‘leaders’ wanted Blacks to show backwardness and even were labelled ‘psychologically maimed,’ all due to slavery, many generations ago. Went to all these meetings too, sitting and thinking that perhaps I’m crazy, because the whole thing did not make any sense to me. Then there are the White’s who just do not want to understand and come up with all these dumbass excuses, told to them by the very elite who is still benefiting from slave fortunes. So I came up with two answers. People in Surinam who feel poor and still want some benefits from their ancestors endless toils, should come to Holland and just get 'social benefits a.k.a reparation monies.' At least they are sure to get something, instead of waiting forever or having it hijacked by elite Blacks. To White’s I say: do you understand the concept of ‘Back Payments?’ Like when a worker worked for you for 350 years without getting one cent in salaries; should he not be finally compensated financially? Of course the money should go to communities and not persons. It’s easy like this. Now poor Whites were also exploited, but somehow the notion of standing up for their own rights has been beaten out of them by the fucking White elite, they defend.
quote: World: Americas
Tobacco company loses record case
Company and smoking victim were each found 50% negligent
A jury in Oregon has ordered the tobacco company, Philip Morris, to pay record damages to the family of a man who died of lung cancer in 1997.
posted
Now here are some parts I want to refute...I tried to refute it on that site..........
Now the first points I agree with....It was toward the end I found his ignorance...
9. And this raises another question that black leaders might do well to reflect on: What about the debt blacks owe to America -- to white Americans -- for liberating them from slavery? This may not seem like a serious question to some, but that only reveals their ignorance of the history of slavery and its fate. Slavery existed for thousands of years before the Atlantic slave trade was born, in virtually all societies. But in the 1,000 years of its existence, there never was an anti-slavery movement until white Englishmen and Americans created one. If not for the anti-slavery attitudes and military power of white Englishmen and Americans, the slave trade would not have ended. If not for the sacrifices of white soldiers and a white American president who gave his life to sign the Emancipation Proclamation, blacks in America would have remained slaves indefinitely.
I mean WOW...Is he really serious...LOL. I mean first off Whites never cared about ending slavery...yeah some abolitionists might have been serious and good and well meaning people...but the only reason why the slave trade and the slavery status in America was abolished is due to economic not out of care and love from white people. Slavery was no longer a profit for Europe becuase they had already pillaged and raped Africa and Asia of other resources and now was on the brink of Industrialization....what use is slave labor when on has machines? Also slavery in the American south was nothing but a scape goat for bitter southerners who used the practice to stop Industial companies in the north from coming to the south...changing the way of life.
I mean the very thought of a bunch of racists that believed in such non sense as a Master White Race...the curse of Ham or Cain or whatever...and that killed Native Americans whom were closer to their skin color than Black Americans....DYING to free people they saw as inferior...LOL..thats ridiculous...The Union fought to restore the Union...Abraham Lincoln said he would rather the South keep slavery and he really did'nt even want black people to live in America...LOL..
I mean Even IF Whites had Banned Slavery out f the kindess of their hearts...WHICH THE DID NOT....Or our for Moral aspects...they were rather late in the game and Most Abolitionists movements were inspired by the accounts of captured Africans that escaped slavery and Rallied against the practice in Europe...
Had the author taken the time to research his claims before presenting such an absurd argument...he could have found information on...
The King of Benin outlawed slavery in 1530
Also a certain muslim named Nasr al-Din who rallied a campaign against enslavment of Africans amoung the Zawiya tribes. However it was the French that supported the slave raiders and the enemies of Nasr...with his defeat slavery expanded due to European support.
King Affonso of the Kongo wrote to the Portugese to stop the slavery of his people and that slavery was against God...It was of course ignored...in 1525
Posts: 8805 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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As to reparations, 35% of African Americans live below the poverty level. Don't fukk it up for this HUGE percentage because your family was more lucky.
My family is by no means rich...We are middle class and working class...My mother works like a dog..and went to school as Did my Father..Aunt and so on. My Mothers family lived in a shack..had no car...with a hole in the Roof and not heating or A.C....They changed their situation without a handout from a bunch of selfish White people.
My opinion on reparations is this...White people want the excuse to make it seem like we owe them something....
Posts: 8805 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by lamin: And of course Horowitz is all for Jewish reparations and the annual $3 to $10 billion bailout for Israel.
I consider the people who discriminate me as ignorant; as the prejudices against Blacks are so overwrought and silly, but they seem to lack brain power and rationality to understand that. All prejudices are stupid.
Now, if Blacks reject prejudices against them, why should they then harbour these notions about others? So if those hateful ideas about Jews are true, why are those about Blacks untrue?
We cannot have it both ways.
Posts: 5454 | From: Holland | Registered: Aug 2008
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posted
If reparations are to be paid it should be companies that directly profited from the practice not tax payers...The Tobacco Companies for example and also the Arabs should be responsible...The shouls pay nations like Ethiopia and Somalia Billions of the money they squander on Mosqes and Resorts...
Also If Americans should pay so should African Nations that sold and Raided people...Africans should be just as responsible as Europe.
Posts: 8805 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
^ GET The Heck outta here with that mealy mouthed, sweet coated brain crap. If sharks eat people and people become afraid of sharks, are people prejudiced against sharks. Hell no! people get wise that the FACT is sharks eat and kill people because that's their nature.
Your opinion is people should love sharks because they all aren't man eaters. How can you tell which is which, and why bother?
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: ^ GET The Heck outta here with that mealy mouthed, sweet coated brain crap. If sharks eat people and people become afraid of sharks, are people prejudiced against sharks. Hell no! people get wise that the FACT is sharks eat and kill people because that's their nature.
You are saying that White's are superior evil beings, instead of really looking and deconstructing racism.
[Baroness Germaine de Staël-Holstein (1766-1817), writer, politician, daughter of M. de Necker, Swiss banker and 'Minister of Finance' of Louis XVI, fought against slavery. She is clearly not white and described as 'bad complexion' and 'swarthy']
Posts: 5454 | From: Holland | Registered: Aug 2008
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posted
^ I am saying that all sharks don't eat people, but enough of them do that attempting to discriminate between those that do and those that don't is a waste of time. The sharks that do are the dominate elements of the group. Plus, how can you tell. They may not eat you today, but feast on you tomorrow.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by lamin: And of course Horowitz is all for Jewish reparations and the annual $3 to $10 billion bailout for Israel.
I consider the people who discriminate me as ignorant; as the prejudices against Blacks are so overwrought and silly, but they seem to lack brain power and rationality to understand that. All prejudices are stupid.
Now, if Blacks reject prejudices against them, why should they then harbour these notions about others? So if those hateful ideas about Jews are true, why are those about Blacks untrue?
We cannot have it both ways.
Its simple...The Jews are white...I mean how can this man make an argument that Black were equally responsible as whites for slavery...When the Most notorious supporters of Nazisim were Jews themselves....Oh Yeah I opened a big closet....How many Jews in Germany used science to created weapons of destruction...I mean did you known that biological weapons used to Gas the Jews was theorized and tested by a Jew. Fritz Habor, a mentor of Albert Einstein who unlike Albert used his knowledge and skills in science to kill people..
Also J.D Rockefeller who pretty much supported the Nazis financially and with weapons.. The list goes on...so why should we pay the Jews..??
Posts: 8805 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: ^ GET The Heck outta here with that mealy mouthed, sweet coated brain crap. If sharks eat people and people become afraid of sharks, are people prejudiced against sharks. Hell no! people get wise that the FACT is sharks eat and kill people because that's their nature.
Your opinion is people should love sharks because they all aren't man eaters. How can you tell which is which, and why bother?
I understand FULLY what you are saying...I know what Nations traded in slaves and which NATION benifitted from the trade of slaves...but I as an African American feel no pity for Africans that selfishly traded slaves...I feel no Kin with them, No love nor desire to be apart with them...same as the ruthless barbaric Europeans that benifitted from slavery.
Also dont you think the Arabs should be responsible?
Posts: 8805 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: ^ I am saying that all sharks don't eat people, but enough of them do that attempting to discriminate between those that do and those that don't is a waste of time. The sharks that do are the dominate elements of the group. Plus, how can you tell. They may not eat you today, but feast on you tomorrow.
The other guy does not have a feeling for Pan-Africanism, so I do not know what to say to him.
Many Blacks do horrible things against Blacks. Look here at E.S where we have this Black con-artist with his forty nicks.
If you read about how white supremacy was enforced in South Africa, you will understand my point of view. Not all whites could be trusted to exert their 'natural' superiority over the 'lower' races, so everything was carefully planned and arranged that they were perceived as 'superior.'
You have plenty of poor whites in the US, who are scared shitless from Blacks, but they are frightened by the white elite. Whites are somehow also caught in a trap, by the white elite.
White supremacy is based on faked portraits of the Black European elite.
I'm grasping at alternative solutions because I do not see anything changing with old methods.
Posts: 5454 | From: Holland | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun: I as an African American feel no pity for Africans that selfishly traded slaves...I feel no Kin with them, No love nor desire to be apart with them...same as the ruthless barbaric Europeans that benifitted from slavery.
Also dont you think the Arabs should be responsible?
I completely agree. These "so-called" Africans who cooperated and profited from slave trading were & are actually the worst sort of traitorous and ignorant elements found in at the top of most societies.
These are the traitors most responsible for the African situation today, even more than Whites and Arabs. They hoodwinked and sold the strongest elements of Africa into slavery, leaving the continent severely weakened and susceptible to the following invasion and take over by Europeans.
The off spring of these past African traitors, these Benedict Aknowa's, are still compromising and selling out the continent today. They should be dealt with in the most severe fashion, which is why none of them have invited African Americans to come back to Africa and help take back their countries.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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posted
WHITE SUPREMACY IS BASED ON FAKE, WHITENED PORTRAITS OF THE BLACK EUROPEAN ELITE
[Baroness Germaine de Staël-Holstein (1766-1817), writer, politician, daughter of M. de Necker, Swiss banker and 'Minister of Finance' of Louis XVI, fought against slavery. She is clearly not white and described as 'bad complexion' and 'swarthy']
[HALF-WHITENED PORTRAIT OF MADAME DE STAËL]
Posts: 5454 | From: Holland | Registered: Aug 2008
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You have plenty of poor whites in the US, who are scared shitless from Blacks, but they are frightened by the white elite.
This black on Black fear began when whites flooded black communities with crack cocaine. Prior to that, black communities were in solidarity from the 60s Black power movements. By imprisoning and killing all black fathers and guiding the resulting female raised black male youth to nonsensical rap music and super commercialism, they no longer had to fear black power consolidation. Hence, no new threat of an emergence of a new Garvey, Malcolm or Farrakhan figure from today's Hip-Hop generation. Only P-Diddys and Jay-zs who are easily managed and controlled with trinkets.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun: If reparations are to be paid it should be companies [or other entities] that directly profited from the practice not tax payers...The Tobacco Companies for example and also the Arabs should be responsible...The shouls pay nations like Ethiopia and Somalia Billions of the money they squander on Mosqes and Resorts...
Also If Americans should pay so should African Nations that sold and Raided people...Africans should be just as responsible as Europe.
No, you were right the first time: he who profits from a crime is the criminal.
PS: Why is this thread on the Egyptology section, and not on the politics section?
We had many threads like this but they created the seperate forum for OT threads (off topic threads) and plus we have a politics forum.
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
I think most posters above are missing the dynamic of the Atlantic slave trade.
There were outside forces operating that preyed on the relative ignorance of those whose actions benefited the Europeans who saw the much bigger picture and knew excatly what they wanted. In short, they wanted a workforce in adequate numbers to serve as the crucial factor of production--in conjunction with land and finance capital--to develop the Americas and Western Europe.
The same critique could be laid against the Native Americans who often cooperated with the Europeans against other indigenous groups. As one European historian once put: " if the 'Indians' had cooperated with each other, the whiteman would not have had a chance".
Or think of the wars in Asia instigated by the European. North and South Vietnamese killed each other by the hundreds of thousands because one group sought to ally itself with the colonialists. The same for North and South Korea.
In Africa, colonialism was made possible by the Europeans recruiting Africans to fight other Africans who were resisting colonialism. The "King's Africa Rifles" was one such army that the British used to put down anti-colonial rebellions in East Africa.
And then there was the age-old "divide and conquer" strategy[it always works] of playing groups against each other. And the indigenous always fall for such games and fight to the death to defend such. Examples: Rwanda, Burundi(Tutsis and Hutus) Nigeria(Hausas, Ibos, Yorubas), Ivory Coast( Christianised Baole versus Islamised others), South Africa(Zulu vs the others), Liberia(Americo-Liberians vs. the others). Angola, Mozambique, Congo--in fact the whole of Africa fell and continues to fall for the same sorry game.
In the Americas, one reason why that institution lasted so long is that some captives often acted as spies and reported any plots to revolt or escape.
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
The only justification for reparations is that slavery AND Jim Crow were BOTH based on an ideology of SYSTEMATIZED economic oppression for the SOLE PURPOSE of furthering the WEALTH and POWER of a handful of white elites. It wasn't about religion and it wasn't about politics. But those things were USED as a TOOL to manipulate the population into supporting an agenda that was PURELY economic. The WHOLE ENTERPRISE from the beginning, including the exploration of the "New World", the reason for wanting TO GO TO India and the exploration of Europeans WAS ALL ECONOMIC. And in order to MAKE SURE that these elites had the backing of the people, they GAVE AWAY land to any and ALL WHITES who would "resettle" in the newly occupied colonies they created. This system of WHITE WELFARE was a POWERFUL FORCE that allowed the white elites to create powerful industries ane economies with the backing of a white working class. ALL of the first colonies world wide were COMPANIES incorporated by the Queen of England for the SOLE PURPOSE of generating profits for STOCK HOLDERS in Britain. This wasn't about "freedom" it was about ECONOMIC GAIN. But those in power needed to create something for the hearts and minds of the people in order to make them believe it was about something else. Hence, you get the myths of Plymouth rock and people escaping persecution. But all the founding fathers and key landowners in the U.S. were DIRECTLY related to the royalty of Europe and Britain, not the "oppressed" souls facing religious persecution. The mandate for European "exploration" in South America was to bring back gold. Religion was just a tool to manipulate the natives into BELIEVING that they DESERVED to get killed off, raped and robbed. The same for the natives of North America, Africa and everywhere else. It also justified stereotypes of blacks being lazy and stupid who NEEDED to be beat down and FORCED to work hard in sub human conditions for less to nothing in return (who on earth would WANT to do that?) It also made those Europeans who were involved feel that they were doing it for a "good cause" and somehow furthering the cause of "progress". But those in power knew full well that this was all simply a means to an end, which was to generate more wealth and power for a handful of white elites and bankers.
So now, whenever reparations comes up, these same ideologies that were used to support oppression come to the fore. And unfortunately it is many blacks who are the MOST brainwashed. So they make all sorts of excuses about why blacks simply need to work hard and blah blah blah. The point isn't working hard, the point is GETTING PAID WHAT YOU DESERVE for working hard. But of course a lot of simple minded people miss this fundamental point. By demanding reparations you are saying that NO LONGER will blacks simply WORK HARD and be HUMBLE while other people continue to exploit them and take advantage of them and USE them for their own purposes. By standing up for reparations, not only are you redressing the PAST, but you are ALSO addressing the PRESENT AND the FUTURE, by standing AGAINST the CONTINUED exploitation and oppression of BLACK PEOPLE where they are used and abused for the economic benefit of others. To NOT stand for reparations means that not ONLY do you AGREE with the aims and goals of economic domination by whites, but you also agree with the ONGOING exploitation of blacks for the gain of whites WORLD WIDE. It is a simple fact that blacks DO NOT control their economic destiny ANYWHERE on the planet and the reason for this is DIRECTLY based on the history of exploitation and oppression. So by rejecting reparations, you ACCEPT the conditions of poverty and disenfranchisement that is DIRECTLY due to the historical and ON GOING system of economic domination by white people. By standing UP for reparations you are STANDING UP for blacks BEING IN CONTROL of THEIR OWN economic destiny and NOT having to worry about whether their HARD WORK is going to be properly rewarded by a system of WHITE ECONOMIC SUPREMACY. It means that you are standing UP for black people not being enslaved by and DEPENDENT ON white economic elites and their manipulation in order to survive.
Posts: 8898 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:In the Americas, one reason why that institution lasted so long is that some captives often acted as spies and reported any plots to revolt or escape.
Right, and good post.
Game: slaves verses masters
In many revolts and would be revolts there were indeed tattle tales (black & white).
quote:Originally posted by Doug M: The only justification for reparations is that slavery AND Jim Crow were BOTH based on an ideology of SYSTEMATIZED economic oppression for the SOLE PURPOSE of furthering the WEALTH and POWER of a handful of white elites. It wasn't about religion and it wasn't about politics. But those things were USED as a TOOL to manipulate the population into supporting an agenda that was PURELY economic. The WHOLE ENTERPRISE from the beginning, including the exploration of the "New World", the reason for wanting TO GO TO India and the exploration of Europeans WAS ALL ECONOMIC. And in order to MAKE SURE that these elites had the backing of the people, they GAVE AWAY land to any and ALL WHITES who would "resettle" in the newly occupied colonies they created. This system of WHITE WELFARE was a POWERFUL FORCE that allowed the white elites to create powerful industries ane economies with the backing of a white working class. ALL of the first colonies world wide were COMPANIES incorporated by the Queen of England for the SOLE PURPOSE of generating profits for STOCK HOLDERS in Britain. This wasn't about "freedom" it was about ECONOMIC GAIN. But those in power needed to create something for the hearts and minds of the people in order to make them believe it was about something else. Hence, you get the myths of Plymouth rock and people escaping persecution. But all the founding fathers and key landowners in the U.S. were DIRECTLY related to the royalty of Europe and Britain, not the "oppressed" souls facing religious persecution. The mandate for European "exploration" in South America was to bring back gold. Religion was just a tool to manipulate the natives into BELIEVING that they DESERVED to get killed off, raped and robbed. The same for the natives of North America, Africa and everywhere else. It also justified stereotypes of blacks being lazy and stupid who NEEDED to be beat down and FORCED to work hard in sub human conditions for less to nothing in return (who on earth would WANT to do that?) It also made those Europeans who were involved feel that they were doing it for a "good cause" and somehow furthering the cause of "progress". But those in power knew full well that this was all simply a means to an end, which was to generate more wealth and power for a handful of white elites and bankers.
So now, whenever reparations comes up, these same ideologies that were used to support oppression come to the fore. And unfortunately it is many blacks who are the MOST brainwashed. So they make all sorts of excuses about why blacks simply need to work hard and blah blah blah. The point isn't working hard, the point is GETTING PAID WHAT YOU DESERVE for working hard. But of course a lot of simple minded people miss this fundamental point. By demanding reparations you are saying that NO LONGER will blacks simply WORK HARD and be HUMBLE while other people continue to exploit them and take advantage of them and USE them for their own purposes. By standing up for reparations, not only are you redressing the PAST, but you are ALSO addressing the PRESENT AND the FUTURE, by standing AGAINST the CONTINUED exploitation and oppression of BLACK PEOPLE where they are used and abused for the economic benefit of others. To NOT stand for reparations means that not ONLY do you AGREE with the aims and goals of economic domination by whites, but you also agree with the ONGOING exploitation of blacks for the gain of whites WORLD WIDE. It is a simple fact that blacks DO NOT control their economic destiny ANYWHERE on the planet and the reason for this is DIRECTLY based on the history of exploitation and oppression. So by rejecting reparations, you ACCEPT the conditions of poverty and disenfranchisement that is DIRECTLY due to the historical and ON GOING system of economic domination by white people. By standing UP for reparations you are STANDING UP for blacks BEING IN CONTROL of THEIR OWN economic destiny and NOT having to worry about whether their HARD WORK is going to be properly rewarded by a system of WHITE ECONOMIC SUPREMACY. It means that you are standing UP for black people not being enslaved by and DEPENDENT ON white economic elites and their manipulation in order to survive.
Correct. Slavery, and resultant racial discrimination are an government institutionalized condition supported by white citizens who profit from it. That makes the US/UK/European GOVERNMENTS liable for racisms continued practice and negative effects on blacks. The blacks calling for rejection of reparations are in fact, unwittingly giving their support for the practice of institutionalized racism, and their naive support for the continuation of the same. Interesting that these same blacks have no problem paying taxes which go to paying reparations to Native Americans, Jews, and Asians for crimes committed by their white masters.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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