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Horet
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For the longest time, I've been looking for a good selection of images, or atleast of detailings of pre-colonial nigerian architecture, particularly those of the southern nigerian peoples, such as the Yoruba, Bini, Igbo etc. (though information on northern peoples would also be apprectiated) But I've found very little online, and it seems as though I can't really get ahold of this kind of information outside of specialized academic books and academic articles. Could anyone help me out?
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markellion
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"Recording West Africa's Visible Archaeology"

I thought this was interesting under Hausaland walls

quote:
Between Lake Chad and the Atlantic Ocean, there are about 10,000 town walls, 25% or more of them on deserted sites. They represent the largest concentration of past urban civilization in black Africa; yet only a handful have been surveyed. There are also about 250,000 unsurveyed tumuli, several million un-charted iron-smelting sites, and an unknown number of ancient terracotta sites, most of which now may have been looted (see main menu for details). Old aerial photographs and other more modern remote-sensing methodologies offer an opportunity to record much of what will otherwise soon be lost altogether.
http://apollo5.bournemouth.ac.uk/africanlegacy/index.htm
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Explorador
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It isn't going to be easy to find photos of *complete* pre-colonial architecture of the "Middle Ages" in that region, simply because much of it has been taken apart to pave way for more contemporary construction projects. It may come as a surprise to some who are not in the know, but even the Egyptian pyramids and monuments at one point came close being taken apart, in order to pave way for new construction projects. Other times in the past, they were treated with contempt, if not subject to maltreatment, in certain centers of foreign occupation, as items of idolatry or symbols of paganism.
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Doug M
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quote:
Originally posted by The Explorer:
It isn't going to be easy to find photos of *complete* pre-colonial architecture of the "Middle Ages" in that region, simply because much of it has been taken apart to pave way for more contemporary construction projects. It may come as a surprise to some who are not in the know, but even the Egyptian pyramids and monuments at one point came close being taken apart, in order to pave way for new construction projects. Other times in the past, they were treated with contempt, if not subject to maltreatment, in certain centers of foreign occupation, as items of idolatry or symbols of paganism.

Europeans do not really WANT to portray Africans as having any sort of advanced culture or civilization to begin with, so that is why they neglect MOST African archaeological sites. They would rather maintain the old Africa didn't have x or y until they came in contact with some 'foreign' element nonsense rather than actually tell the truth. Or they would rather try and find traces of an ancient white race in areas of deep antiquity in Africa. The only solution is for Africans to do their OWN archeology for themselves and stop waiting for or expecting foreigners to tell them their history.

One perfect example of the sorry state of African history and archeology is bead making, along with textiles and metalworking. To hear many text books and historians tell it, this stuff all came late to Africa. Really? So how do you explain all the sites with evidence of such going back thousands of years? And these sites have been known about for a long time. So they aren't even updating the books with stuff they have ALREADY known for quite a while, let alone any new stuff they discover.

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Horet
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Markellion: I've known about that site for quite some time, but thanks anyway.

The Explorer: I know full well of how much of the old structures in southern nigeria and coastal west africa have been destroyed over time, but I've been looking for atleast SOME sort of decent variety of photos. I know I'd be best off with historical accounts and illustrations, but, I don't really know where to look in regards to those outside of having to go out and order and buy books. So what can I do?

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Explorador
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Horet,

It seems to me that you may well have to do just that; going out and searching for the information in question at your nearest library. Another option would be to look up names of potential archaeologists who have worked in that area, and see if you can get a correspondence address. You are more likely to find photos of the likes of tumuli, postholes, foundations and perhaps incomplete structures here and there [like remnants of wall structures or paved grounds] than you are to find those on reasonably complete precolonial architecture. It is only fairly recently that a number of states realized the benefit of preservation of fairly old precolonial era structures, not out of any principled motives per se, but for their potential 'touristic' value, i.e. foreign exchange potential. That certainly has aided in the survival of ancient Egyptian monuments, for instance.

quote:
Originally posted by Doug M:

The only solution is for Africans to do their OWN archeology for themselves and stop waiting for or expecting foreigners to tell them their history.

Examples: Some familiar and some not-so-familiar names include:

Cheikh Anta Diop, Ahmed Kamal Pasha, Selim Hassan, Sami Gabra, Mohammed Zakaria Goneim, Bassey Andah, Aguigah Alexis Adandé, Théophile Obenga, Fekri A. Hassan, Kamoya Kimeu, Mulu Muia, Simon Katisiya, Karega Munene, Purity Kiura, Chapurukha Makokha Kusimba, Emmanuel Ndiema, Isaya O Onjala, Mohamed El Bialy, Mohamed Abdel-Maqsoud, Salah Eldin, Sayed El Beheiry, Yohannes Zeleke Dawit, O Woldu, Oluwole Ogundele, Okwy Achor, A. Yinka Ogedengbe, Yohannes Haile Selassie, Adiele Afigbo, Alex Okpoko, Ekpo Eyo, Abi Derefaka, Sileshi Semaw, Alinah Segobye, Seke Katsamudanga, Yusuf M Juwayeyi, Audax Mabulla, Hasen Said, Ancila Nhamo, A B.A. Adande, C. Adagba, O.B. Bagodo, Ibrahima Thiaw, Abdoulaye Camara, Hamady Bocoum, Marie-Amy Mbow, Didier N’Dah, Bienvenu Gouem Gouem, Pierre Kinyock, D. Kuevi, F.A Iroko, D. James Anquandah, E. Kofi Agorsah,...

^I doubt these people are waiting for or expecting someone else, let alone foreigners, to tell them their history.

Ps - The italicized are no longer around; but they too didn't wait for someone else to tell them their history.

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Whatbox
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The Walled city of the Kingdom of Benin is the lagest earthwork on Earth according to the book of world records.

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Please call me MIDOGBE
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I will have access to these books on thursday or wednesday.
quote:

-An introduction to Nigerian traditional architecture. Vol. 1, Northern Nigeria
Dmochowski, Z.R. / Ethnographica : National Commission for Museums and Monuments / 1990
Monographie 3.
-An introduction to Nigerian traditional architecture. Vol. 2, South-West and Central Nigeria
Dmochowski, Z.R. / Ethnographica : National Commission for Museums and Monuments / 1990
Monographie
-An introduction to Nigerian traditional architecture. Vol. 3, South-Eastern Nigeria, the Igbo-speaking Areas
Dmochowski, Z.R. / Ethnographica : National Commission for Museums and Monuments / 1990


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ArtistFormerlyKnownAsHeru
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 -
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Horet
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quote:
Originally posted by Please call me MIDOGBE:
I will have access to these books on thursday or wednesday.
quote:

-An introduction to Nigerian traditional architecture. Vol. 1, Northern Nigeria
Dmochowski, Z.R. / Ethnographica : National Commission for Museums and Monuments / 1990
Monographie 3.
-An introduction to Nigerian traditional architecture. Vol. 2, South-West and Central Nigeria
Dmochowski, Z.R. / Ethnographica : National Commission for Museums and Monuments / 1990
Monographie
-An introduction to Nigerian traditional architecture. Vol. 3, South-Eastern Nigeria, the Igbo-speaking Areas
Dmochowski, Z.R. / Ethnographica : National Commission for Museums and Monuments / 1990


That's awesome! Please post excerpts or scans of images if possible- I was directed to these books via an african anthropologist I once corresponded with, but they're very expensive.

Herukhuti: What's that exactly? I've seen quite a few buildings like that in old Nigerian cities, especially in early colonial photographs of places like Ibadan. Are those pre-colonial?

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ArtistFormerlyKnownAsHeru
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^ I don't know if they're pre-colonial but most rurual houses in Ogun state look like that. There are still mud huts to be seen but very very few.

Apart from these, what we have is modern buildings, many of them from the colonial era.

If you notice, the house with the steps (in the pic) has those large building blocks common in Nigeria (Africa?) unlike the little red bricks that are used in the UK.

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Horet
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I've also always wondered- exactly what part of pre-colonial Benin City is this?

 -

This looks like some sort of slaves quarters or barracks, nothing like the grandeur I've seen described in many other accounts of Benin City.

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markellion
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quote:
Originally posted by Horet:
I've also always wondered- exactly what part of pre-colonial Benin City is this?

 -

This looks like some sort of slaves quarters or barracks, nothing like the grandeur I've seen described in many other accounts of Benin City.

The city actually started disintegrating with the political instability the slave trade brought. There was an account by a Dutchmen in 1700 about how Benin no longer deserved the title of a city I'm going to try to find it tonight.

While the younger Ashanti and Dahomey prospered during (and because of) the slave trade Benin merely did what it had to do to survive.

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markellion
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From "The African Slave Trade" by Basil Davidson page 235

quote:
The Dutch accounts show that these wars were generally to Benin's advantage up to the middle of the seventeenth century. But after that a steep decline set in. Earlier wars of conquest were now giving way to wars for slaves, and the fabric of Benin society seemed also to have suffered from this. In 1700 the well-informed Dutch agent at Elmina, William Bosman, was writing home to Holland that Benin no longer deserved the name of city.' Formerly this village was very thick and close-built,' he told his employers in Amsterdam, 'but now the Houses stand like poor men's corn, widely distant from each other

Off topic but:
quote:

...'there is no evidence', Ryder tells us, 'that Benin ever organized a great slave-trading network similar to that which supplied the eastern delta' of the Niger river, or indeed that Benin ever engaged in systematic raiding for captives. Ryder quotes an evidently characteristic case for 1798, when English ships bid for a total of 20,000 captives in the eastern delta as against a mere thousand in the Benin river. 'Benin either could not or would not become a slave -trading state on the grand scale.'


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Horet
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I have another question about the Benin Empire- were than other Bini/Edo cities other than Benin City? What sort of artwork did they produce? In fact, were commoners of the Benin Empire allowed to produce artwork at all?
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Whatbox
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http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=004711;p=1#000009

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=000414

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjSNBytu6YA&feature=channel_page

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Explorador
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quote:
Originally posted by Alive:

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=000414

Some of the things mentioned in that link were discussed even earlier here: Somba Tamberma houses in Togo
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Whatbox
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^Very nice pics in that thread. [Smile]

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alTakruri
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Who snapped all the nice photos in all these our architecture threads
and published them making them available for public consumption, and
who wrote the printed books and periodical pieces on African architecture?


quote:
Originally posted by Doug M:
Europeans do not really WANT to portray Africans as having any sort of advanced culture or civilization to begin with, so that is why they neglect MOST African archaeological sites.


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Doug M
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Such scholarly publications are not the same as mainstream education.

For example, how many schools teach anything about the ancient earthwork fortifications in West Africa?

And on top of that, some British researchers are even claiming that those structures are from the Queen of Sheba or a "mysterious" lost civilization, even though THE BRITISH are the ones who destroyed it and took most of the treasures back to Britain. They never documented any Queen of Sheba when they were in the process of this destruction and the civilization they were destroying was certainly not mysterious to them.

The point being that yes, the truth is there but you have to DIG for it with your own time and effort. It isn't going to be given to you easily on a platter from the standard sources.

So when I say Europeans I am talking about systematic European propaganda, which has been portraying Africans as dumb and inferior for a long time, EVEN WHILE they knew better.

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alTakruri
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Well, since Europeans took the photos, published
the print media, and produced the documentaries
then it's false to conclude with a statement that
blankets Europeans as far as I'm concerned.

Euros are neither gods nor bogeymen, they're just
people.

The sooner students of Africana studies cease prefacing
their works in reference to Euros the sooner Africana
studies stands on its own legs instead of an anti-Euro
protest movement.

Can we say Africa without saying Euro? Except when
directly discussing Afro-Euro relations I'm damn sure
that "Yes we can!"

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ArtistFormerlyKnownAsHeru
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quote:
Originally posted by alTakruri:

The sooner students of Africana studies cease prefacing
their works in reference to Euros the sooner Africana
studies stands on its own legs instead of an anti-Euro
protest movement.

Your consistency is highly respected.
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Doug M
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And it was the Euros as you call it that were documenting the lives of the Native Americans as they wiped them out. The same with Tasmania, Australia and everywhere else they went in terms of colonial expansion. History and education are a tool of propaganda and always has been so no matter who is writing the history you have to always keep that fact in mind. Like someone said, humans are humans, which means they are not perfect and godly and therefore must be judged accordingly, black white or otherwise.

If someone believes that the history of Africa is being told in an honest, straight forward and non biased fashion by historians around the globe, then fine there is no point for this forum, there is no point for one doing in depth research and there is no need to question the status quo. But we ALL know that ain't the case, so such bombastic arguments are meaningless.

Of course the truth is there, but like I said you have to dig for it and digging means wading through a bunch of nonsense (as in older overtly racist works about Africa) in order to get to it. These works only being valuable because they capture a time and space which is lost in many cases.

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Please call me MIDOGBE
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Horet:
I have scanned the chapter dealing with Yoruba architecture but the quality of the pics seems quite poor in my opinion. I'll post two of them and you'll tell me if you want me to post the rest right now despite the poor quality. If not, I'll take these pictures back another time. Anyway, I have another book at home dealing partly with Bini architecture. This is well known Paula Ben Amos' "The Art of Benin".

Hera are pics of Badagry Brazilian style dwellings from Dmochowski's volume 2.
 -
 -

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Explorador
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These buildings date to what time frame?

--------------------
The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat

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AGÜEYBANÁ II (Mind718)
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^^ Most likely post colonial....

quote:
Originally posted by Please call me MIDOGBE:

Hera are pics of Badagry Brazilian style dwellings from Dmochowski's volume 2.


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ArtistFormerlyKnownAsHeru
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House in Abeokuta (Ogun State, Nigeria).

 -

Built during or after colonial era.

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Horet
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Midogbe, I'm just looking for pre-colonial architecture, not post-colonial. Go ahead and post away with anything pre-colonial.
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Horet
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Midogbe, could you please update us?
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Please call me MIDOGBE
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Horet & others:

Actually, the Dmochowski volume 2 mostly does not mention the date of creation of the studied buildings, but it seems that the very most of them are definitely post colonial. Many, while traditional, are property of individuals. Other, while royal properties, are clearly said to be different from precolonial palaces.

So I will have to post material from other sources.

More to come...
From P.Girshick-Ben Amos (1995), The Art of Benin (Revised Edition), London: British Museum Press, p.13:

 -

quote:
A traditional chief's house, photographed in 1897 by R.K. Granville. Architecture is one way of marking élite status. Chiefs own large compounds, the exterior walls of which are decorated with horizontal ridge designs (agben). Formerly, clay bas-relief designs of animals, warriors, and other symbols of power were an important part of architectural decoration, but today this is rarely found.

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Please call me MIDOGBE
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A few indigenous depictions of Bini royal palaces:

From S. Preston-Blier (1998), L'Art Royal africain (translation of Royal Arts of Africa), Paris : Flammarion, pp.56-61:

 -

quote:
Kingdom of Benin (Nigeria), box depicting a palace, XVIIth, XVIIIth century. Copper, 32X61 cms. Berlin, Museum für Völkerkunde.
 -


quote:
Kingdom of Benin (Nigeria), Plaque from the Oba's palace, XVIth, XVIIth century. Copper, 45 cm high. London, Brithish Museum.

This plaque represents a palatial sanctuary perhaps dedicated to King Ewuare. Guards and Pages frame un door whose roof is occupied by a python. The python represents Olokun, that is the counterpart of the King

More to come...
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Explorador
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quote:
Originally posted by Please call me MIDOGBE:

A few indigenous depictions of Bini royal palaces:

From S. Preston-Blier (1998), L'Art Royal africain (translation of Royal Arts of Africa), Paris : Flammarion, pp.56-61:

 -


The bird-figures on the roof top, in particular, are kind'a reminiscent of those in the artwork below:

 -

Courtesy Myra Wysinger -- Photo from: "De Stadt Benin." In Olfert Dapper's Beschreibung von Afrika. (Amsterdam, 1670)

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alTakruri
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If I may interject with Neo-Sudanic architecture from Bamako, Mali.

 - ___  -
1 Central Bank of the __________________ 2 the Air Africa bldg
West African States

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Horet
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quote:
Originally posted by Please call me MIDOGBE:
Horet & others:

Actually, the Dmochowski volume 2 mostly does not mention the date of creation of the studied buildings, but it seems that the very most of them are definitely post colonial. Many, while traditional, are property of individuals. Other, while royal properties, are clearly said to be different from precolonial palaces.

So I will have to post material from other sources.

More to come...
From P.Girshick-Ben Amos (1995), The Art of Benin (Revised Edition), London: British Museum Press, p.13:

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quote:
A traditional chief's house, photographed in 1897 by R.K. Granville. Architecture is one way of marking élite status. Chiefs own large compounds, the exterior walls of which are decorated with horizontal ridge designs (agben). Formerly, clay bas-relief designs of animals, warriors, and other symbols of power were an important part of architectural decoration, but today this is rarely found.

Is this from Benin City? That house looks really run down.
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ArtistFormerlyKnownAsHeru
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quote:
Originally posted by alTakruri:
If I may interject with Neo-Sudanic architecture from Bamako, Mali.

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1 Central Bank of the __________________ 2 the Air Africa bldg
West African States

I've noticed the dry/dusty red clay on the edges of the roads in Nigeria, Ghana etc. Now I see it in these Mali pics. Must be a west Africa geo feature.
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Horet
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Seriously Midogbe, get back to us.
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Please call me MIDOGBE
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Pics of the shrine of Orisha Shango in Ibadan said to have been established around 1830.

From Allen Wardwell(ed.),1989,Yoruba : nine centuries of African art and thought, New York : Center for African Art in Association with H.N. Abrams, p.156:
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^^^^
Yep Horet, the building is from Benin City.

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Some pics of funerary monoliths from the Cross River area found in the area peopled by Ekoi (aka Ejagham people). Since they are only found among people Bakor, Nigerian scholar Ekpo Eyo (oops, forgot about the citation -_-)claims it would be more correct to call them Bakor monoliths, rather than Cross River monoliths as it is most often called. Eyo also claims that the usual designation of these artefacts as "Akwanshi" is incorrect, since this very word is actually used by Nta & Ntelle people to refer to small (from 3" to 6") non sculpted stones.

The monoliths we are dealing with are actually sculpted and much bigger (from 35" to 5'11") and are referred by locals as "atal" meaning stone.

They are said to represent historical or legendary characters.

Eyo claims that at the time of his publication, the only archeological datation claimed a 200 AD date for the Alok site.

Here are some pics of atal, from Philip Allison (1968), Cross River monoliths, Lagos : Dept. of Antiquities, Federal Republic of Nigeria, 44 p., 67 p. of illustrations.

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Horet
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Thanks, but have you found anything new on the sort of buildings they put together? I'd really like to see more on the yoruba palaces. I've seen plenty of things like floor plans of them, but nothing like full-scale structures.
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Horet
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Midogbe, could you PLEASE get back to us?
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Hopefully, more to come.

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quote:
Originally posted by Horet:
Midogbe, could you PLEASE get back to us?

Relax man, I'm pretty sure he heard you the first time.

Related thread to keep Horet occupied:

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=005489;p=1

[Cool]

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argyle104
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Please call me MIDOGBE

Looks like MaximallyAbstract_Faith aka Alive WhatBox's teeth.

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Whatbox
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rofl!! Good one.

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http://iheartguts.com/shop/bmz_cache/7/72e040818e71f04c59d362025adcc5cc.image.300x261.jpg http://www.nastynets.net/www.mousesafari.com/lohan-facial.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by MaximallyAbstract_Faith:
quote:
Originally posted by Horet:
Midogbe, could you PLEASE get back to us?

Relax man, I'm pretty sure he heard you the first time.


[Big Grin]
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http://thenile.phpbb-host.com/sutra7101.php#7101
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