quote: I am SOOOO tired of American Churchianity. Not that I recommend this film to anyone, but I think the movie “Saved” is a pretty pointed indictment of American Churchianity.
I am so discouraged, lately, at the condition of the American church. Every church I visit, lately, is more like an episode of Oprah or Dr. Phil. We don’t need Sunday morning messages on how to balance our checkbooks, anymore. We need Jesus.
I think that theologically limp-wristed preachers like Joel Osteen (the smiley preacher), who refuse to discuss sin and repentance (the very reason for salvation), are so symptomatic of the man-tainted gospel that has been preached for the last quarter of the 20th century.
I pray that in the collapse, the message of Godly men like Ray Comfort will be elevated above the ear-tickling, milquetoast gospel of most modern pastors.
posted
But I feel this person (who is more knowledgeable on this topic) has a good point -------------------------------------- fontinau
This seems to be the kernel of the author's argument...
quote: Being against gay marriage and being rhetorically pro-life will not make up for the fact that massive majorities of Evangelicals can't articulate the Gospel with any coherence.
...and my inclination is to say "Close, but no horseshoe."
If Christianity had depended on the ability of the majority of its followers to articulate Gospel, we'd still be sacrificing to Jupiter. The majority of Christians in the Roman Empire weren't well informed about Christianity. (Or anything else.) The culture of the Roman Empire was irreconcilable with Christian morality. But the Christians of the Roman Empire had the Church Fathers. We don't. The problem isn't that the "Evangelical" Christian hoi polloi is unable to say anything intelligent about scripture. That's to be expected. The problem is that the "Evangelical" Christian elite is unable to say anything intelligent about scripture. (I put "Evangelical" in quote marks because nobody really knows what it means. I find the term "socially reactionary Christian" more useful.)
Christianity in America doesn't need a "rescue mission" from third world Christians; it doesn't need to be de-politicized; it doesn't need to retreat into a hermetic "counter-culture" community. It needs theologians.
Incidentally, I don't think we're going to get theologians. Theology depends on the written word, and we are evidently living in an age where great writing is impossible. (Perhaps because of cultural exhaustion; perhaps because Marshall McLuhan was right, and we've moved from an age of reading to an age of sensing; perhaps for other reasons.) The inability to produce great writing isn't necessarily a bad sign. There have been great cultures without great writing. (Example: Egypt.) It may not even be totally fatal to Christianity. Judaism and belief-in-Jesus were both oral traditions before they were written traditions. But without new great written theology, Christianity has lost one of its great advantages over paganism. (Atheism being a subset of paganism, in my terminology.)
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posted
Church people are just ridiculous people most of the time.
They are highly trained in the art of making logical fallacies.
The REFUSE to LOOK at any information that is not in the Bible, and REFUSE to THINK about that which is actually in their Bible that contradicts their idiot doctrines!
In pentecostal churches (like RCCG) it has become the norm to pray to the merciful God to "destroy your enemies".
Church people are among the most bitter most hateful people I've ever met.
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Let us keep in mind that the author of the original article speaks about Evangelical Christians in America (although they cross beyond their borders; in Latin America and Africa and Philippines), and he gives 7 reasons why they failed in America. I think the number one reason, besides neglecting the importance of having theologians, is that they associated with being a Christian means being against culture war.
In contrast here in Denmark and Europe, we do have culture war [I hope you understand the term of culture war; it has nothing to do with Middle East policies, but abortion, gay rights, class struggle, etc.] but the people who lead this culture war have nothing to do with the Church, of course, they [priests]interrupt sometimes the debate and give their views, but it is far more different than in America, where Evangelical Christians have more to say how the constitution of the country should be written to defeat 'culture war'.
They forgot the message of the gospel and instead focused their energy on culture war. And hence, that makes them politicians and not theologians.
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quote:Originally posted by ANTIBODY{herukhuti}: The REFUSE to LOOK at any information that is not in the Bible, and REFUSE to THINK about that which is actually in their Bible that contradicts their idiot doctrines!
In younger years I'd always wondered why things always had to be contradicting doctrine, i now know why by default that's what things will be perceived as doing -- the doctrine contradicts itself [not speaking on the written words per say].
Speaking of culture wars, Arwa, I've been more than turned off with even seeing commercials for more than a few presumably stuck up "good black Churchian" type films of late, but a few weeks ago, upon watching "Cover" I was very pleasantly surprised.
quote:Do not be overrighteous, neither be overwise— why destroy yourself?
Do not be overwicked, and do not be a fool— why die before your time?
It is good to grasp the one and not let go of the other.
The man who fears [only] God will avoid all extremes.
It would be naive to say that Culture War has nothing to do with Christianity; it does, but I don't see it such same force here in Europe than America. Rather, it is the politicians who lead the battle in Europe.
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quote:Originally posted by Arwa: But without new great written theology, Christianity has lost one of its great advantages over paganism. (Atheism being a subset of paganism, in my terminology.)
Arwa - Actually, the reverse would seem to be the case. Both Theism and A-theism are the same thing, just different sides of the coin. Both of them are dependant on God, one side says that he DOES exist, the other side says that he does NOT exist. But for both “GOD” is central to their position.
Theism
Belief in the existence of a god or gods, especially belief in a personal God as creator and ruler of the world.
A-theism (“A” meaning NONE)
Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods. “Dis” meaning No. The doctrine that there is no God or gods.
A Pagan, on the other hand, appears to be totally unencumbered.
Pagan:
1.One who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew, especially a worshiper of a polytheistic religion.
2. One who has no religion. 3. A non-Christian. 4. A hedonist. 5. A Neo-Pagan.
I thought that it might be a good idea to add this too.
Hedonism
NOUN:
1. Pursuit of or devotion to pleasure, especially to the pleasures of the senses.
2. Philosophy The ethical doctrine holding that only what is pleasant or has pleasant consequences is intrinsically good.
3. Psychology The doctrine holding that behavior is motivated by the desire for pleasure and the avoidance of pain.
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Of, relating to, or possessing intellectual or spiritual knowledge.
A-gnostic: (commonly pronounced as Ag-nostic)
a. One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
b. One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.
2. One who is doubtful or noncommittal about something.
BTW – That which is commonly referred to as: “Pagan Religions” DO have Gods, just not Gods that the dominant religions consider acceptable.Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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