posted
In another thread disussing the Mandan charter of Mali, i raised the possiblity of modernizing and up dating the document.In further conversations with some of the brothers from the continent,i brought up what i learn't here,now while they are not awhere of the said document,they were excited, some began to recount local laws and traditional ways of doing things.that western style democracy has been mostly a failure in their home countries,and presidents and prministers act as if they were kings,and that people themselves behave as if those guys were kings.so i said maybe that's the solution,do away with fake democracies return the kings.At first everbody was horrified,but not of having rule by kings but that non africans would think them pimitive and backwards to which the brother from Camaroon responded.the Chinese don't give a damn about who rule them as long as they as they provide good governance and the Chinese don't care about what outsiders think,the system fits their cultural character.well one Japenese guy setting in on the conversation ask what do you if you have a bad king? i responded that prehaps traditional solutions excited to deal with that situation,all that is needed was an up date on the rules to fit modern times.what about enthic rivalries,the brother from Ghana ask,every ethinc groupe wants their man to be king,they will do the samething they do when they supposed to vote for a president fall prey to corruption and violence,so i suggested a system of rotation when every X amount of years an ethnic group gets it's chance to rule.the Ethiopian trader said so what's to stop one ethnic group from staying in power past their alotted time? my response a supreme head the king of kings who heads the A.U. someone lol Gadhaffy?i said why not he already holds the title might as well make it meaningfull,but like the rotation system for ethnic groups to come to power the different countries would get their chance to have their king of kings,how do you select the king of kings,proformance,how did they rule their indivdual kingdoms ie prosperity index,rule of law personal freedoms to the common man etc. now anything you guys want to add or subtract or just slam the whole idea as being un workable. btw i told them to sign up or at least go into lurker status so they might be reading this.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
Hey Fukouka Africans if you are out there holla share your opinions, you were quite vocal the other nite,don't be shy brothers. Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
| IP: Logged |
-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
Also, refer back the original thread on the Kouroukan Fouga for my most recent post as it's an addendum to this thread.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Explorer and Sundjata,thanks guys.the links proved crystal clear that Africa's problems has African solutions.just update and modernize them that's all.It's high time that Africans stop being shy about their own instutions.small matter i just got back from a friends wedding,and most of the guest were decked out in kimonos that cost more than most people pay check for the month and then some.and i sat there reflecting on the pope's visit to Camaroon and seeing the President's wife looking "sorry" ma peeps from Camaroon but she looks like a clown.sorry i said it.but in one case i saw unforced pride very natural,very this is the way we do our thing.and the other dressing like a dance hall queen on a slow Monday.not Afro sheik or Afro regal.now on not so small matter, why on God's green earth is half the currency in west Africa control by France? aren't people embarassed? i know i am and i am not even from there never visited Africa.hope to rectify that soon.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
What's good for the goose isn't always good for the gander. This is likely one of the main premises which stagnates political progress and unity. I think that Niang makes a wonderful point about the Charter's potential for quelling recent conflicts had they been united under a general set of principles they could have all taken pride in. Practical applications of past systems seem plausible given the needed revisions in the context of the changing/newer politics of the region.
quote:why on God's green earth is half the currency in west Africa control by France?
Because of dependency. Another aspect which deals with management resolutions. The Kouroukan Fouga isn't primarily a guide for economic governance, at least that may be applied to a modern context. I dread to say that the best way to mange resources has to be discovered through trial and error but bold efforts need to take place in order to establish what's best for Africans.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Sundjata,most people in that region has been dealing in complex trade and economic governance before there was a place called France.remember that bank draft between the Malian business man and his trading partner from Morrocco? that these very same people used set the price of gold,salt,and the value of cowrie shells,that criss crossed the continent,now need France to tell them how to manage their economy?I mean they are not up rooted descendants of African captives,who has to start over from scratch.another thing different part of the continent but just as relivent the Ruwanda traditional court and "please don't kill me" South Africa's truth and reconcilliation comission.both show a measure of justice and common sense,where victems and perps,faced each other and the perp. is made to bare his/her soul and make restutions to the victem's satisfaction. I saw this ps on CNN where a woman lost her entire familiy because her Hutu Neighbour slaughtered them.she confronted him in Ruwanda's open traditional court.have him confessed his crimes show remorse and beg forgiveness, you know what? she forgave him.not only that she went into the basket weiving business with the perps wife,some years later.these traditional systems do beleive an eye for an eye makes everybody blind.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
| IP: Logged |
Explorer and Sundjata,thanks guys.the links proved crystal clear that Africa's problems has African solutions.
I beg to differ. Africa's problem requires a global solution. African economies or states don't exist in a vacuum, where it has no relations nor is not affected by interference from outside.
quote: just update and modernize them that's all.
What would you be alluding to here?
quote: It's high time that Africans stop being shy about their own instutions.
Shy away from what institutions of theirs?
quote: now on not so small matter, why on God's green earth is half the currency in west Africa control by France?
Because what many of the African nations got, were really token "independence", made possible by complacence of the rising African bourgeois who jumped onto the bandwagon of the struggles of the masses for social liberation, as essentially self-appointed spokespersons of the masses.
quote: aren't people embarassed?
You are treating African societies as though they were monolithic social class societies, wherein there is no differentiation between the social strategies and aims of the ruling bourgoeis and the ordinary masses.
quote: i know i am and i am not even from there never visited Africa.hope to rectify that soon.
Well, it is certainly up to you to be embarrassed for Africans, but ordinary Africans themselves have no cause to be. If you understand what I'm relating above, then you'll get an idea of why. By the same token, I bet your people are not in full control of what goes on in their society either; using your standards, you might as well be embarrassed for them as well; no?
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
Explorer,of course Africans live in a global economy and is affected by what happens outside their boarders.But this is not new to africans on the continent.what is new is taking ideas that maybe illsuited to their delevoloment,when they have solutions close at hand on dusty shelves or paying attention to why a certain action is considered taboo.when i said update and modernize,i was thinking of the Kourukan Fuoga,document the thing about the rights of slaves,when to beat and not beat someones wife bascially the same points that D.T.Naian brought up.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
| IP: Logged |
Explorer,of course Africans live in a global economy and is affected by what happens outside their boarders. But this is not new to africans on the continent.
Don't recall anyone saying the status quo is new. So, if you know Africans are affected by what goes on outside their borders, how do you suppose the solution to Africa's socio-economic problems are confined to the continent?
quote: what is new is taking ideas that maybe illsuited to their delevoloment, when they have solutions close at hand on dusty shelves or paying attention to why a certain action is considered taboo.
Like I said, you seem to be looking at Africans like there are classless, and that events like colonialism and neocolonialism never occurred. Am I wrong?
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
Treating Africans sociaties as though they monolithic social class societies,i maybe guilty and it's not the 1st time you called me out on that.(note to self keep this mind always).Oh but i am embarrassed by the lack of true independence,on my own island,check out the documentary life and depth,it truly bere's this out.but what about the pride of the bourgoeis? don't they want braggin rights on how well they can run an eoconomy.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
Don't know what to tell you, if you feel embarrassed about your people not having "true" independence. I guess the bulk of the world's working people ought to be as well, if one puts it that way.
Something you should know about the ruling African bourgeois layers: they lack spine. BUT they are also aware of their own social class interests, and are fairly more organized when it comes to organizing their strategies to fulfill those socio-economic interests, more so than the less organized ordinary masses. They figure that cooperating with ruling bourgeois outside Africa's borders, i.e. those of the more powerful economies, is the key to the survival of their own social layer, which would otherwise be no more, if the order of things were changed, for the better for the ordinary masses. Ever heard of the saying, "if you can't beat them, then join them"?
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
Explorer i am not prone to violence to bring about change but if what you say is true,than their little or no option but "REVULOTION".now I am depressed."sigh".
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
| IP: Logged |
Explorer i am not prone to violence to bring about change but if what you say is true,than their little or no option but "REVULOTION".now I am depressed."sigh".
But who says ordinary masses should use violence as means to achieve "REVOLUTION"; to the contrary, they should strive to achieve it through non-violent but very effect means. You see, the working class layers are greater in number than those who control. The economies of the world depend on their labor, and their spending power as well. If they use such things to their advantage, *collectively*, and in an organized way, they will be able to turn things around. But what affects ordinary masses in one country affects those of another, and so, it is necessary for them to relate to and be aware of the social state of their counterparts in other countries/regions, to be able to organize; this requires systematic education of the masses by a layer of the learned few or what some might call the "intelligentsia" about the nature of socio-economic framework we are operating under, because its too complex for the average individual worker to sufficiently fathom by him/herself without educational assistance from outside. The *collective power* of the ordinary worker is the key here, not violence. However, a fledgling revolution is inclined to be met with violence by the establishment before it is perceived to become a threat, and so, it very unlikely to be achieved without meeting violence, but this violence will be instigated by the thin layer of ruling plutocracies or bureaucracies, not the masses. Nonetheless, *if sufficiently organized*, such attempts will be futile to the *collective power* of the ordinary masses. That's my opinion.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
Ok interlocking trade unions world wide,but ah some people will cry "COMMUNIST" then what?
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
| IP: Logged |
quote: ,but ah some people will cry "COMMUNIST" then what?
Then I say, let them go to hell. What's more important, you achieving your goal for your own best interest, or some brainwashed western capitalist clowns calling you a name?
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
No you did not mention trade unions,I did because i see it as the easiest was to bring about the kind of change world wide.Imagine a workers strike in say South Africa and the their brother unions get on the picket lines the world over upon request.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
Trade Unions were perhaps once a good idea, before big business and the petty bourgeois infiltrated their high level posts; as such, unions are now used as tools by which big business feel they can *negotiate* the workers rights away from them, with little resistance via endorsement of union leaders. Notice how, in the US alone, many of the unions have actually not saved jobs of their ordinary working folk, and in other cases, actually recommended its workers to accept wage cuts and retraction of other benefits, as a way to avoid layoff. Just recently, I heard about a certain company having made its workers agree to no payment for a certain amount of time, to allow the company to recover. They were told that by doing so, they avoid loosing their job.
Ps - So the question is, if not unions, then how is said education and organization to be achieved? Answer: Workers' Political parties in respective regions. One which is *independent* from big business and plutocratic establishment as whole.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic