...
EgyptSearch Forums Post New Topic  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» EgyptSearch Forums » Deshret » Similarity between this Yoruba Sculpture and Egyptian God Bes

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: Similarity between this Yoruba Sculpture and Egyptian God Bes
Ebony Allen
Member
Member # 12771

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Ebony Allen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Anyone find it so odd that these two figures are nearly identical? Maybe there is a link between the Yoruba and Egypt/Kush. Anyhow these two are amazing.


The first one is a sculpture of a Yoruba figure called a Child of Obatala. Obatala is a Yoruba god. And the second one is the Egyptian god Bes. And they are both wearing a skull necklace.


 -



 -

Posts: 603 | From: Mobile, Alabama | Registered: Jan 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Brada-Anansi
Member
Member # 16371

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Brada-Anansi   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hey Ebony you maybe on to something If the above is really from Nigeria and of a dwarf..then the similarities is striking...look at the necklace on both.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Shady Aftermath
Member
Member # 14754

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Shady Aftermath     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
If the above is really from Nigeria, and wasn't planted there - the two figures are clearly related.

--------------------
[Big Grin]

Posts: 368 | From: Oxford | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ebony Allen
Member
Member # 12771

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Ebony Allen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Well, the link I found it on had a list of Nigerian Yoruba art from Ile-Ife. I hope it's not a mistake anyway. Here's the link.

http://hum.lss.wisc.edu/hjdrewal/Ife.html

Posts: 603 | From: Mobile, Alabama | Registered: Jan 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Brada-Anansi
Member
Member # 16371

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Brada-Anansi   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
So there is no telling if the sculpture is a dwarf figure??? that would be very important. If we can find out that the figure is a dwarf...Then man Wally and others is close to being vindicated.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Finesse
Member
Member # 16950

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Finesse     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
interesting
Posts: 63 | Registered: Sep 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Asar Imhotep
Member
Member # 14487

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Asar Imhotep   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
This is clearly a Batwa figure. Here is the key, all of the Batwa (dwarf) figures, I should really say usually, have the tongue sticking out. Bes is always seen with his tongue out. It hard to see in the second image. Here is one that you may be able to see the tongue better:

 -

Posts: 853 | From: Houston | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Chrome-Soul
Member
Member # 16889

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Chrome-Soul     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
up
Posts: 189 | From: Texas | Registered: Aug 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
rockytsang
Member
Member # 18290

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for rockytsang   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
reporter Robert Draper "I [h1]replica louis vuitton watches[/h1] "I am," when asked if she was [h2]replica louis vuitton shoes[/h2] was weighing a 2012 run. "I'm engaged [h4]vacheron constantin replica watch[/h4] engaged in the
internal deliberations candidly, and replica louis vuitton bags and having that discussion with my family, [h3]cartier tank solo watch[/h3] family, because my family is the most discount chanel jewelry most important consideration

Posts: 96 | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AswaniAswad
Member
Member # 16742

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for AswaniAswad     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hey Aser do the Twa really call themselves Batwa i have never ever heard that term ever used.

I think that Bes and Ptah have a connection with the Twa who are Ptwah or Ptah people.

Those two have no connection and dont look similar at all first Bes is of course the body of a Twa but not the face of a full human that other one is of a real human face.

really much of ancient egypt is more similar to Western African Tradition than to Arab or North Africa. Much of there customs point to central and west africa and the sudan more than the Horn or arabia

Posts: 410 | From: Al-Ard | Registered: Jun 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Brada-Anansi
Member
Member # 16371

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Brada-Anansi   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
maybe so maybe not, but check out the skull necklace
AswaniAswad

quote:
Those two have no connection and dont look similar at all first Bes is of course the body of a Twa but not the face of a full human that other one is of a real human face. really much of ancient egypt is more similar to Western African Tradition than to Arab or North Africa. Much of there customs point to central and west africa and the sudan more than the Horn or arabia
And yes Kemet and some cultures in western Africa are similar because they both share the Sahara as a cultural incubator
 -
Yoruba sandstone sculpture compare that with any found in the Nile Valley Kemet or Kush.
 -
Kemet and Yoruba ram sculptures
http://egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=egyto&action=display&thread=27&page=2
Go here read more.

Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ish Geber
Member
Member # 18264

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Ish Geber     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Source update:

quote:
Popular household god, recognisable from his grotesque appearance: the body of a dwarf, crooked legs, the mane and ears of a lion, his tongue often sticking out of his mouth. He wears a head-dress with upstanding feathers and there is usually a tail visible between his legs originally belonging to an animal skin the god is wearing.
http://www.globalegyptianmuseum.org/glossary.aspx?id=89


quote:
This statue of a misshapen nude dwarf with overly long arms, bowed legs, and a face combining leonine and human features is the god Bes. Despite his rather unattractive appearance, he was a benevolent deity, and protected people during vulnerable periods by keeping malevolent spirits at bay. He was a particular favorite among pregnant women.
http://www.louvre.fr/en/oeuvre-notices/statue-god-bes


quote:

Amulet of the God Bes

Period: Third Intermediate Period
Dynasty: Dynasty 21–24
Date: ca. 1070–712 B.C.
Geography: From Egypt
Medium: Faience
Dimensions: H. 3.7 cm (1 7/16 in)
Credit Line: Purchase, Edward S. Harkness Gift, 1926
Accession Number: 26.7.878

In ancient Egypt, several protective deities were depicted as dwarves featuring a lion's mane, ears, and tail, and often wearing a plumed headdress. Such gods are now referred to as the Bes image. The domain of the Bes image was the household. He averted evil with music, knives, or the sa sign as he watched over the occupants of the house. He was particularly protective of women and children, and over time this responsibility gave him a role in some temples when there was a birth house for the deity. Thus, amulets of the Bes image were worn on a regular basis.

http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/works-of-art/26.7.878/
Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ish Geber
Member
Member # 18264

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Ish Geber     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Ancient Egyptians Held Dwarves in High Esteem


A painted statue of limestone of the God Bes, the god of love, childbirth, and sexuality in ancient Egypt. Bes is portrayed with hybrid features and sticking out his tongue.

Credit: Louvre Museum, Paris.

Short stature didn't prevent dwarves in ancient Egyptian culture from attaining high positions in society. Some served as assistants to the pharaoh, while others were looked up to as gods.

Chahira Kozma, a pediatrician at Georgetown University, examined remains and depictions of dwarves in ancient Egypt and concluded they were respected and that their disorder was not seen as a physical handicap.

The study was detailed in a Dec. 27 online version of the American Journal of Medical Genetics.

There are more than 100 known medical conditions that can lead to dwarfism. One of the most common is achondroplasia, a genetic disorder that affects approximately 1 in 30,000 children born each year.

In achondroplasia, the trunk of the body is of normal size, but the limbs are extremely short and the head tends to be unusually large. It's believed that achondroplasia was one of the most common causes of dwarfism in ancient Egypt.


Exotic Dancers ...

In the ancient necropolises of Giza and Saqqara, dwarves hailing from various professions were depicted on at least 50 tombs. They included jewelry makers, animal or pet handlers, fishermen, entertainers and dancers, nurses and midwives. Some held more important positions.

"There were several elite dwarves, who worked for the pharaohs and had lavish burials," Kozma told LiveScience.

One dwarf, named Seneb, was one such "elite" dwarf and was honored with a lavish tomb in a royal cemetery close to the pyramids when he died.

The high value placed on dwarfs in ancient Egypt is highlighted by the praise and honor heaped upon Harkhuf, an army general and a high profile official who served two pharaohs, when he returned from an African expedition with precious treasures and a pygmy who performed exotic dances.


The child pharaoh at the time was so delighted by this last acquisition that he appointed people to guard the pygmy on his ship voyage back to Egypt, lest he fall into the water.

... and gods

Ancient Egyptians also worshipped several dwarf gods.

Ptah, a deity associated with regeneration and rejuvenation and who was also worshipped as the creator of the universe, was sometimes portrayed as a dwarf. Another god, Bes, was associated with love, sexuality and childbirth.

"Women during birth would shout to [Bes] to help them with delivery," Kozma said.

One particular prayer, called "the spell of the dwarf," was meant to be spoken four times over a clay dwarf by a woman in labor and went: "O good dwarf, come, because of the one who sent you...come down placenta, come down placenta, come down!"

Tolerance

In addition to dwarfism, the ancient Egyptians were tolerant of other genetic and medical disorders, Kozma said. The tomb of Tutankhamun, for example, contained a funeral gift depicting a female dwarf who also had bowed legs and clubbed feet.

In fact, a respect for the disabled was ingrained into the "wisdom teachings" of the culture. Amenemope, a wise man who lived during the New Kingdom, wrote that care for the old, the sick and the malformed was a moral duty.

"Man is clay and straw, the God is his builder," Amenemope wrote in a book of moral teachings. "The Wise Man should respect people affected by reversal of fortune."


https://www.livescience.com/507-ancient-egyptians-held-dwarves-high-esteem.html
Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ish Geber
Member
Member # 18264

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Ish Geber     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
The hieroglyphic words for dwarfs and pygmies are dng or deneg, nmw, and hw. A determinative or a symbol depicting a dwarf with short limbs and a normal trunk usually accompanies these words. While many types of dwarfism were documented in ancient Egypt, most skeletal remains and artistic pictures identify short-limb dwarfism, mainly achondroplasia.
—Chahira Kozma

Historical Review Dwarfs in Ancient Egypt

American Journal of Medical Genetics 140A:303–311 (2006)

http://www.academia.dk/MedHist/Biografier/PDF/DwarfsInAncientEgypt.pdf


quote:
The Egyptians knew of the existence of the Pygmies; Pepi II Neferkare, last king of the 6th dynasty (c. 2325–c. 2150 bc), had Pygmies at his court, and they were depicted on Egyptian pottery some 4,000 years ago. The German botanist Georg Schweinfurth, arriving in the Ituri in 1869 from the north, was the first European to see and write about the Mbuti (The Heart of Africa; 1873). Stanley was the first to cross the forest from west to east, following essentially the same route as the present Kisangani-to-Bunia road. In the 1930s the Jesuit missionary Paul Schebesta undertook the first anthropological studies of the people of the Ituri. Since then, many aspects of the behaviour, ecology, and growth and demography of the Bambuti and their villager neighbours have been studied by anthropologists from the United States, Europe, and Japan.

https://www.britannica.com/place/Ituri-Forest#ref417687
Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Narmerthoth
Member
Member # 20259

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Narmerthoth     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The Yoruba God makes his rounds in many reincarnations, as do the Egyptian Gods.

See, The Voice of Africa, vol. 1, Rudolf Blind, for a discussion of several versions of the myth of Shango.

In Christian dogma, the death of Jesus is stereotyped as a Roman-style crucifixion on Mount Calvary. However in the Book of Acts in the New Testament, it is explicitly related that Jesus was hanged from a gibbet, rather than being nailed to a cross. There is a strange parallel here to the mythical history of the Yoruba god Shango. Shango rules as one of the first, if not the first, kings of the Yoruba nation of Oyo.

He becomes alienated from his subjects who persecute him and drive him from the throne. In his despair, he hangs himself from a tree (of which the Tet cross is a type), and then falls into a large hole in the ground. Eventually, he ascends into heaven on a chain, a type of the ladder of Ra upon which the beatified souls ascend
into heaven, and becomes a powerful orisha or god who is the personification of lightning and thunder.
Of further interest is the fact that Shango's avatar is the ram. The common elements
shared by Jesus and Shango command attention: the kingly status (Jesus as the "king of Israel"); the persecution by one's own people; the death by hanging; the descent into the lower world (" ... he descended into Hell ... "); the ascension into
heaven by an act of self-resurrection; the imagery of a man who becomes divine; the identification with the ram (lamb). These are all conspicuous parallels that suggest much.

Among the Yoruba, the worship of Shango revolves around a figure who - as the first king of the kingdom of Oyo and the orisha of lightning and
thunder - is both man and god. Thus the process by which an extraordinary individual becomes the human avatar of a preexisting deity is well-attested throughout history.



The African Background to medical science
Charles Finch

--------------------
Selenium gives real life and true reality

Posts: 4693 | From: Saturn | Registered: Apr 2012  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
jantavanta
Member
Member # 20328

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for jantavanta     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Ancient Egyptian religion is an evolution of African Spiritualities, of which Yoruba is at the core.
Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2012  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
DD'eDeN
Member
Member # 21966

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for DD'eDeN     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Seeing the top pictures reminded me of the Andaman Pygmies, the women there who give birth to a stillborn baby or whose infant died traditionally wore the skull and bones on a necklace. I have never heard of any Congo Pygmy women doing this.

--------------------
xyambuatlaya

Posts: 2021 | From: Miami | Registered: Aug 2014  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ish Geber
Member
Member # 18264

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Ish Geber     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by jantavanta:
Ancient Egyptian religion is an evolution of African Spiritualities, of which Yoruba is at the core.

I am not sure if it is Yoruban necessarily, but it indeed has an African core that is widespread all over Africa. It even has been confirmed in cultural-anthropology.
Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ish Geber
Member
Member # 18264

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Ish Geber     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by DD'eDeN:
Seeing the top pictures reminded me of the Andaman Pygmies, the women there who give birth to a stillborn baby or whose infant died traditionally wore the skull and bones on a necklace. I have never heard of any Congo Pygmy women doing this.

I don't think anyone was talking about Congo.
Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.

Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | EgyptSearch!

(c) 2015 EgyptSearch.com

Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3