posted
Phew...had to catch my breath after laughing so hard there. Anyway, you're wrong Ebony Allen, mixed race chicks are black as long as they're coloured you don't have to be African to be black.
quote:Originally posted by AswaniAswad: sudaniya u know of Baggara right and Dongolawi so who is Jenub
"Janub" is usually used to refer to the southern Sudanese, whilst "Jallaba" is in reference to my people.
Posts: 1568 | From: Pluto | Registered: Sep 2008
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Why would Janub refer to all southern sudanese and jallaba are in which part of sudan.
Posts: 410 | From: Al-Ard | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Shady Aftermath: Phew...had to catch my breath after laughing so hard there. Anyway, you're wrong Ebony Allen, mixed race chicks are black as long as they're coloured you don't have to be African to be black.
No, they are not. Mulatto girls are half black only and half white.
Posts: 603 | From: Mobile, Alabama | Registered: Jan 2007
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^ If you put cream into coffee does it cease to be coffee? Or is it simply coffee with a more creamy flavor?
Posts: 189 | From: Texas | Registered: Aug 2009
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^ Lmao im not picky. Extra cream no cream, double cinnamon whatever. I'll drink it all.
Posts: 189 | From: Texas | Registered: Aug 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Ebony Allen: I'm African American for your fucking information. And jet black skin is gorgeous.
Jet Black skin is only gorgeous if it is smooth and fine. If it is thick and rugged and the person has thick broad harsh features then it is not fine.
Posts: 2088 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by AswaniAswad: Why would Janub refer to all southern sudanese and jallaba are in which part of sudan.
"Janub" just means south just as shimal means north, and "Jallaba" is what the northern tradesmen working in the south were colloqually known as.
That's why we have "Janub" darfur, or southern Darfur; southerners have taken the term as a reference to themselves exlusively.
Posts: 1568 | From: Pluto | Registered: Sep 2008
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I know Janub means south and Shimal is North but i have never heard a sudani call any other sudani Shimal.
Posts: 410 | From: Al-Ard | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian:
What does the DNA Analysis tell us?
From: Y Chromosome Variation Among the Sudanese 2008,
The Nilotic groups possess the most ancient lineages of A M13, B M60 and also E M78. While the Beja and Copts and other AfroAsiatic Speakers have many lineages including J1 and R1b! Small amounts of A and B Y chromosomes exist with AfroAsiatic speaking Sudanese groups.
BTW, African Men according to a Hammer 2005 .pdf possess A M13 and B M60 at 1.1% and 0.8% respectively.
The people who are the so-called "Nubians" carry 8 different Y chromosome lineages including I, J1. J2 and R1b! ------------------------------------------------- The Ancient Nubians in AE paintings are usually jet Black in color with Negroid features. The modern "Nubians" are mixed.
A and B are the oldest lineages for living men period. The earliest inhabitants of the Nile were the ancestors of the Nilotics. The earliest Egyptians were Nilotic . The Ancient Egyptians called themselves Kememu because they were jet Black in color. The gods of Kemet were deified individuals who actual lived in the remote past. usar was a jet Black Nilotic man. A
The original old Kingdom pharaohs were very Black with Negroid features. I've seen it in books that I could not scan at the time.
The people of the Oryx, the followers of Set were reddish brown like the modern Somalians and Beja . They made war against the original jet Black Egyptians who followed Ausar. That's what the Ausar/Set story was probably really about. The war is between men over the patrilineages even today. The women were spared. The women were native Africans as well. Auset, Neith and Hetheru lived on.
Consequently, the followers of Set won. The People of the Black Rock - the Nilotic MEN are being hunted and killed even as I write in South Sudan and Darfur. The women are captured for the other side. Even New Kingdom TaSeti pharaohs had jet Black wives. Nothing has changed.
Not only have paintings and statues been altered, but the true physical legacy of the first Kememu is being wiped out without a true understanding of how they fit into the AE framework.
THE NILOTICS ARE THE REAL NUBIANS AND FIRST ANCIENT EGYPTIANS.
^ This. Forth coming evidence proves some of this is very true. The situation in the Nile Valley as far as peopling is very similar to many other areas around the world. In Europe E-M78, and G2a were some of the earliest lineages in Western Europe, no ancient sample of R1b1b exists....but it was most definitely the most successful late comer. The new data from Otzi the Ice man is more Southern European than even modern Southern Europeans...the people in that area are quite different.
In East Asia many of the lineages found in the south Haplogroups K, M, P, S etc are the earliest lineages. Haplogroup O, typical if most East Asians today is the most successful late comer to East Asia. This is clearly the case with YAP lineages (Haplogroup D) that were in Asia prior to the existence of any of these other lineages. This is also the case of Maternal lineage D being an the American founder followed by A, B, C, and X which are more numerous today.
And of course in much of Sub Saharan Africa below the equator E1b1a / E-m2 lineages predominate in areas where they may not have been present prior to expansion for areas further North. And in North West Africa we have early E1a and A1a lineages replace by an successful E-M81 founder effect.
In Modern Egypt and Sudan The main lineages for the most part are A, B, E and J. Haplogroup J seems to be the mos recent and very successful latecomer , particularly in ALL of Egypt. Then we have E lineages, mainly E-M78 and E-M35. That leaves us with A and B lineages which are likely the earliest.
Looking at the Nile Valley today there is no reason to believe that those Earliest inhabitants would NOT have a Genetic profile that is Predominantly A and/or B.....and to a lesser extent E. For those that TRULY look at the Egyptians as migrants from "The South" or Egyptian culture being a "Sudanese Transplant".............taking a look at Sudanese Y profiles which group would we think would parallel the first Egyptians?
Would it not be the Dinka, Shillk, Nuer and Nuba? When looking at 18th Dynasty results did they resemble the Dinka, Shillk, Nuer and Nuba? Or where they more like E-M78 carriers : Oromo, Beja?
When analyzing the idea of Egyptians have origins in "The South" - OTHER THAN PHYSICAL REMAINS, this is stated because those ancestors are still in the South and somewhat intact. In reality those people that are in "The South" likely come FROM the Sahara. It is better then to replace Egyptians "Southern" connections to "Saharan" Connections, those of which who's ancestors now live in the Upper Nile Valley... or Chad, Niger etc. This is not "Admixture", this is a component of the Egyptian mixing pot.
So when looking at Predynastics who is who? Are we looking at the "Erythreans" or the Nilo-Saharans? Notice how far north the "unknown Nilo-Saharan languages on the Nile" are , You can somewhat get a hint but this is not conclusive. Compare the cluster of Naqada, Badari, and A-Group Nubians. Then compare them to Upper and Lower Nile groups. Next compare them with Modern populations. Nagada/Tigre is somewhat telling with the Tigre inhabiting the red sea as "Erythreans". Again this is not conclusive though.
The cultural aspect, particularly that which deals with Cattle has been kept intact nearly in its entirety with Upper Nile Nilo-Saharan speakers:
Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
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Lets not bump the thread talking about the Beauty of Nilotic Queens. That was discussed 3 years ago. Back on track take a look at this familiar image of "Nubians"
What is the difference between the Brownskinned and the Black Skinned "Nubian". How can they be compared to their contemporaries in the region today? Is it not possible and likely that Dark type is more of a Nilotic type whose descendants now inhabit the Upper Nile : Ie Dinka?
Lets move to Egypt:
Same thing right? We also have Nilotic type Egyptians. There is no reason to believe that their cant be the same type people in the Entire valley. There was no magic cutoff point. This is the old kingdom though. What you notice is in Egyptian reliefs this Nilotic type of Egyptian disappears through time.
We have seen these images before but the interpretation is new. Here is another interpretation : Black Land / KMT. What is the point of Naming a region, based on your Skin color of "Black"...Pitch black/Coal Black even, when in fact your skin is brown? Now who in the Nile Valley has a skin tone that approximates to Coal Black?
Well if these people where there, where did they go? I dont know but this situation is similar to what Keita found when he speaks of the Northern Type having Predominance over the Southern Type over time. Its quite possible certain regions were just more successful.
Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
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What I have not seen spoken about and what I find odd is that people have not talked about the red clay/ that Dinka, Nuba and Massai among other groups put all over their bodies. That could account for the red hue of the figures on the wall reliefs.
Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011
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^ This is true. Do you know if the Dinka do this from head to toe? I know their are times when it is used to cover the face.
I am sure the Nuba do use this though. Even if this is the case, I am sure that some of these individuals are just the same color is many Egyptians.
Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
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can't find the documentary i saw long ago with a Dinka covered head to toe in red, but if I find it I will post it.
Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011
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Science Meets The Bible by Gert Muller, Pomegranate Publications, 2011
Science teaches that modern humans originated in East Africa and spread from there to the rest of the world. The Bible teaches that humans originated in the Garden of Eden and spread from there to the rest of the world. It is almost universally assumed that, in terms of location of origins, these versions are in conflict. For the first time a book challenges this assumption by referring to the relevant verses of Genesis which give the names of the lands just outside Eden and the rivers flowing through them. The Table of the Nations in Genesis is then called upon to confirm the location of these lands, two of which are in the neighbourhood of Cush in East Africa. The results are confirmed by extra-Biblical Jewish tradition such as the Book of Jubilees and the Book of Enoch.
They are also confirmed, surprisingly, by Egyptian sacred texts such as the Book of the Dead, the Book of AmTuat and the Book of Gates. These books locate the Egyptian afterlife paradise in the Tuat or Netherworld. The geography of the Tuat turns out to be based on the lakes, mountains, mammals and birds of East Africa and not Egypt as generally assumed. Influences are traced, by the author, from Central Sudan and Upper Nubia into Lower Nubia and then Upper Egypt during the predynastic brought by the Followers of Horus. Egyptian kingship and the white crown are amongst the influences that the author postulates as coming from Central Sudan.
INfo from another thread. Just picked up that book too.
Take note :
quote: Influences are traced, by the author, from Central Sudan and Upper Nubia into Lower Nubia and then Upper Egypt during the predynastic brought by the Followers of Horus. Egyptian kingship and the white crown are amongst the influences that the author postulates as coming from Central Sudan.
Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
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^ The difference in complexions painted in tomb murals may be just an artistic convention, for there are many examples of Egyptians painted in alternating light and dark colors both among males as well as females.
It is true many Nilotic peoples have a custom of painting themselves with red ochre which interestingly is also practiced by many pastoralist Bantu groups in other parts of Africa like the Himba of Namibia. Nilotic people also use ochre to color their hair red and even cow urine to bleach their hair blonde. Both blonde and red colored haired Nubians are also displayed on tomb murals.
Although I disagree with Red,White,Blue,Christian's claims of genetic lineages corresponding to folk legends, I do agree with astenb that the Nilotic folk seem to have had large impact and influence on neighboring African peoples especially Afrasian speakers. This can be seen in linguistics as he showed in Nilotic influence in Egyptian language but it doesn't stop there. The leopard skins of the priests, the cattle rituals and bull symbolism of the kings, etc. I am beginning to agree with Truth's hypothesis that advanced culture and kingdom building was spurred on by the domestication of cattle by early Nilo-Saharans. Even the map showing the dispersal of early Nilotic speakers seem to correlate with the development of civilizations in the regions of dispersal from the western Sahel to the Great Lakes region.
Posts: 26249 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:^ The difference in complexions painted in tomb murals may be just an artistic convention
Yes. No doubt about it. Though I also believe indigenous pre-Berber North Africans were starting to disperse into the area during Neolithic times. IMO, they would've had light(er) skin tone, as well as other variations not seen in Neolithic Northeast Africa.
Check your inbox Djehuti
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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True there are artistic conventions but some of these images particularly when Egyptians crossed the far southern Cataracts, depict even the scarification that these Nilotic tribes have. There are also images of the wrestlers.
Anyway, another point of this connection is the shaving of heads of both men and women. Sure we heard they did it to "protect against Lice". In eastern parts of Africa this is a strong cultural aspect from Nilotic influence onto others.
Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
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Although linguistically connected, the migration histories of these Nilotes differ considerably. Shilluk oral tradition remembers that they were led north by their first king and culture hero, Nyakang. Around 1500 they arrived at their present location at the junction of the Sobat and Nile Rivers from a previous southern homeland remembered as "Dimo." The Anyuak, closely related to the Shilluk, also trace their origin to the "country of Dimo" southeast of their present homeland. They were led north by a powerful chief, Gila, a brother of the Shilluk king Nyakang. A quarrel led to a split between the Shilluk and Anyuak prior to Nyakang’s arrival at the present-day Shilluk homeland on the White Nile, during which the Anyuak migrated east. Gila’s grandchild Cuwai became their first king. The Dinka claim an ancient homeland in northern Sudan. This is supported by linguistic data which shows loanwords from the classical language of Nubia, Nobiin, suggesting a cultural and religious connection with the Nubian kingdom of Alwa (300-1300). The Dinka migrated into southern Sudan (c. 1300-1600) along the eastern bank of the Nile as far as Bor, and then forged across the river three hundred miles northwest. At this juncture they had penetrated into the swamps of the southern Sudan and fully surrounded the Nuer. The Nuer claim they originated from a barren waterless country northwest of their present homeland in a region they identify as "Kwer-Kwong." It is remembered that a leader, Gau, married Kwong giving birth to Gaa who became the most important Nuer leader, the Land Chief, acquiring the title of "Chief of the Leopard Skin." Some scholars suggest that the Nuer were formerly part of the mosaic of Luo peoples present in Southern Sudan prior to the Dinka arrival.
quote:Originally posted by Ebony Allen: Dinka are not ugly at all either. This model has beautiful features and great skin.
That's ONE photo and it's airbrushed. That girl doesn't even look Dinka since the dinkas have jet black skin. The dinkas are the ugliest people on the planet.
HEY you Bettypoop, you are obviously a dumb ignorant bitch. You have no right to call people ugly. Have you ever heard the wise words of the legend Tupac Shakur "the darker the flesh, the deeper the roots"? huh? well let me tell you something. Dinka, Nuer, Shilluk, Nuba, Oromo, Beja, Luo, Massai (Nilotes) are all descendants of the ancient Nubians or the Cushites as the bible calls them. How do I know this? I'm dinka myself and I have an open mind, I've been taught my history. Free your mind from mental slavery and stop thinking light skin is the beauty of Africa. Dark Skin is the symbol Africa, people like you are why Nikki Minaj is destroying little black girls.
Posts: 1 | From: Australia | Registered: Aug 2012
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I know this is an old ass thread but I recently been having conversations about this subject with others on another site. And it has been complex and confusion. I know the "Nubians" were not a REAL GROUP instead a diverse array of people who lived South of Egypt. I know some Nubians were Nilo-Saharan speakers while others were Affo-Asiatic.
But I personally believe the Kushites(tho they did absorb other groups) would have been Nilotic type group(that maybe extinct especially their language). I mean they came from Central Sudan which most Nilotic speakers like the Dinka come from.
I think over time with absorbing other groups into the empire the Kushite language shifted more "Afro-Asiatic" and their genetics too. By the time of the late period of the Kushite Kingdom(time of the Candance Queens), I believe the Kushites would have absorbed a lot of Afro-Asiatic and other Nilo-Saharan genetic influence.
But the Egyptians VERY early on depicted the Kushites as rather Nilotic looking. This is just my personal 2 cents.
Posts: 1891 | From: NY | Registered: Sep 2014
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The Manjak of Guinea Bissau also practiced body scarification and they have been linked to the Nile river by DNA.
Posts: 1115 | From: GOD Bless the USA | Registered: May 2006
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UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
you don't have to be African to be black.
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Now who in the Nile Valley has a skin tone that approximates to Coal Black?
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