quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: ^^^^ The Use of Afronut was in response to the character going by the moniker Afronut slayer aka Gigantic.
Lionesse you asked me..
Do you apply that to the above Roman catacomb painting or are you saying that in this case they are depicting Jesus as an African?
I think its clear that majority of the Art depicts people typical of Roman/Greek/Southern European phenotype. However there are black portraits, clearly blacks were among the first converts. People depict Christ in their image..
Here is the Link to the Catacomb Images untranslated..
You can see a clear mix of Pheonotype, Artistic Renditions and skin shades. Notice there are hardly any Dark Skinned Christs after the Constantine Conversion(You can tell because Christ begins to be represented by a Halo)..
which picture in particular do you think represents an African person and not someone who looks like this: Posts: 42922 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: ^^^^ The Use of Afronut was in response to the character going by the moniker Afronut slayer aka Gigantic.
"She" very well knows that but since her aim is to disrupt and agitate. "She" cares not one whit toward increasing the knowledge, just getting monkeys to chase the weasel. I can only hope sensible members don't follow "her" off the path.
I don't care anyone's personal opinion if they think there was not or was a Jesus black skinned, white skinned, or in between coloured.
Anybody, gimme logical reasoning and historic examples of how and why the whites of Europe chose to magnify Madonnas of pitch black color of an obvious wide variety of facial features and their very choice in wordage Black Madonna and even on occasion calling the idol Egyptian, Ethiopian, African or even slave.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
It seems unlikely the idols revered as Black Madonna have anything to do with the Roman Isis of the Isiac Mysteries System of the far flung Roman Empire outside of Egypt. Until corrected by primary evidence, i.e., some document or artpiece manufactured outside Egypt for Roman Empire Isis worship, there are no Iside statues, statuettes, mini-shrines, or paintings of Roman Isis as Madonna with Child thus no such images with pitch black colored skin (hence the name Black Madonna).
Unlike some Byzantine imagery of brown complexioned Israelites and Judaeans the pitch blackness of the Black Madonna is darker than what Judaeans of the first centuries CE described themselves. They alluded to boxwood, honey, and intermediate human hues when speaking of their skin colour. Their hosts would have seen various shades of brown when looking at their Judaean contemporaries.
That being so, why are the Black Madonnas pitch black? Leading to the question of the age of the earliest ones. How did brown Byzantine Madonnas become black in Europe whereas white Byzantine Madonnas retain their colour in European borrowings if not their eastern facial character?
The style of rendition and the clothing can help date this idol.
The Black Madonna Our Lady of Oropa supposedly dates to no later than 371 CE. It was meant to displace or rechannel the religion practiced there at the time. But who was being worshipped in 4th century Oropa in Italy? It was not Isis.
The cave home of Our Lady of Oropa sits in the midst of what was a sacred grove to Apollo. Stone and water in the area were holy to various Goddesses.
The Black Madonna of Oropa was not installed to mask over any worship of Isis. She was not in a site once of an original Isis worship shifted to Catholicism.
Our Lady of Oropa is not Isis in disguise.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
Ok, so he care's not about opinion on the humans' actual tones, and more about why they were depicted that way, black, whether Africoid looking or European looking and symbolically black.
posted
I have looked at this black madonna thing fairly closely. No one knows the specific intent.
In religious art you will see the same thing copied and repeated over and over again. I suspect that many of the artists didn't even know what it was all about, they were just told to make them that way and so that the continued a tradition. You will also find religious people noticing, like some tree root looking like Jesus and thinks it's a sign from God.
If you try to make a case that early Christians belived that Jesus and Mary were pitch black Africans it's not supported in writing. They would have said Jesus was an African. All the early art would have shown Jesus and Mary as pitch black Africans. Some might try to argue that there was a cover up. If there was a cover up they would have destroyed or altered all these black madonnas.
The black color may have nothing to do with being associated iwth real people's skin color and have some other black color related religious meaning. Or it could mean the intent was that they were very dark Africans. I find it hard to believe because of the context. I'm not saying it's impossible that the black madonnas represent Africans. I think we will never know.
Some of the heraldry is also very odd. They showed pitch black Africans described as "Moors" and with a crown on their head. yet there were no pitch black African kings of Europe at the time these Coats of Arms were created. Why the crowns? I don't know and as far as racial ideas are concerned medieval Europeans did not see things the same way modern Europeans do.They seem less racist. But Portugal initiated slavery in 1411. But it was ecomically motivated not racially motivated. The concept at the time was that the people were savages, half animal so it was o.k. These people were ignorant and exploitive. Racism gets hotter when there is a sense of competition and it did, the hate then went beyond economics. If the black Madonna and baby Jesus were intended to show that they were African people then it seesm like they would have been incapable of putting us into slavery later on. Also of note is while you have all of these pitch black images of called "Moors" (probably a lot of them Ethiopian) there ins'nt on a consistent basis the Madonnas being called "The Moorish Madonna of " although there were some what appeared to be occasions local remarks implying likeness to black people. It's not supported by the theology and church writings of the churhes in which they appear.
To make it work you have to construct fantasies of black kings in Europe in medieval times. But there weren't and what appears in the herladry, black people with crowns , did not exist in reality or in oil paintings. Things aren't what they seem. It appears to be some sort of weird fetish to me, a little disturbing even.
"Catholic Europe biggest Afronuts for Black Jesus and Mary" The thread title makes a statement. I suppose half serious
Posts: 42922 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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The queen of heaven: Màmma Schiavona (the black mother), the madonna of the Pignasecea: a delineation of the great idolatry - promoted by the teaching and authority of the Roman Catholic Church By Thomas W. L. Jones
quote: "To the generality the conception idealized and realized is that the mother of Jesus was, a Negress, or of a very, very dark complexion"
quote:Originally posted by Amah Jones: Roman Emperor Justinian II's coin showing Jesus Christ. Circa 692 AD
Amah Jones - Whenever the Albinos offer something on race, you need to cross reference it until you find the lie.
This is from your facebook;
. BELOW:
Description: Justinian II. Second Reign, 705-711 AD. AV Solidus (4.42 gm). Constantinople. 705 AD.
dN IhS ChS REX REGNANTIUM, facing bust of Christ DN IUSTINIA NUS MULTUS A, crowned facing bust, wearing loros, holding cross potent on base and patriarchal globus with PAX.
(Jesus on the left with the (Cornrows?).
Same administration, but the two Jesus's don't look alike. Clearly one of the coins is a fake, hell knowing Albinos, both are probably fakes!
BTW - anyone know what the horns by the ears means?Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
A carry over from God Amun Terminal bust of the god Zeus Ammon. Marble about AD 150-200. British Museum, London.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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posted
^It turns out that the protrusions were supposed to indicate parts of a cross.
But it caused me to catch the Albinos in another lie.
FROM THE COIN SITE:
Constantinople mint, obverse IhS CRISTOS REX RETNANTIVM, bust of Christ facing with long hair and full beard, cross behind, right raised, Gospels in left; reverse IVSTINIANVS SERV CHRISTI, Justinian standing facing, wearing crown and loros, cross potent on three steps in right, akakia in left, CONO in exergue; fully lustrous, broad and well centered flan for the type, very rarely this nice!; SOLD (NOTE: No Certificate of Authenticity).
Quote from site:
Certificate of Authenticity issued by David R. Sear.
Superb and one of the finest style and grade specimens offered in the past few years.
The portrait on this coin was based on an icon believed by the people of the time to bear a miraculous resemblance to Christ?s actual appearance.
Constantinople mint, second reign, with Tiberius, 705 - 711 A.D.; obverse O N IhS ChS REX REGNANTIYM, bust of Christ facing, curly hair, short beard, wearing pallium and colobium, Gospels in left, cross behind head;
Quote from site:
he portrait on this coin was based on an icon believed by the people of the time to bear a miraculous resemblance to Christ’s actual appearance.
Quote from site:
The portrait on this coin was based on an icon believed by the people of the time to bear a miraculous resemblance to Christ’s actual appearance.
quote:Originally posted by DHDoxies: Stinking Black men always trying to divide my White brothers from his White sisters.
Doxie Darling I know that you are a big-time Christian, so I have to ask you: Were you aware that Jesus was a Black man when you made that statement?
Do you see now why it is so important to ignore the lies and nonsense that your fellow Albinos are teaching, and instead learn true history???
Well, I don't know what the punishment will be for calling his kind "Stinking Black men" but you had better hope somebody's got a little pity and a lot of "Sense of Humor".
Ya, I know that they set you up to be stupid, but I have no say.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
^Doxie dear, I'm sure that it will be understood that you didn't know any better, please don't worry.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: ^It turns out that the protrusions were supposed to indicate parts of a cross.
But it caused me to catch the Albinos in another lie.
FROM THE COIN SITE:
Constantinople mint, obverse IhS CRISTOS REX RETNANTIVM, bust of Christ facing with long hair and full beard, cross behind, right raised, Gospels in left; reverse IVSTINIANVS SERV CHRISTI, Justinian standing facing, wearing crown and loros, cross potent on three steps in right, akakia in left, CONO in exergue; fully lustrous, broad and well centered flan for the type, very rarely this nice!; SOLD (NOTE: No Certificate of Authenticity).
Quote from site:
Certificate of Authenticity issued by David R. Sear.
Superb and one of the finest style and grade specimens offered in the past few years.
The portrait on this coin was based on an icon believed by the people of the time to bear a miraculous resemblance to Christ?s actual appearance.
Constantinople mint, second reign, with Tiberius, 705 - 711 A.D.; obverse O N IhS ChS REX REGNANTIYM, bust of Christ facing, curly hair, short beard, wearing pallium and colobium, Gospels in left, cross behind head;
Quote from site:
he portrait on this coin was based on an icon believed by the people of the time to bear a miraculous resemblance to Christ’s actual appearance.
Quote from site:
The portrait on this coin was based on an icon believed by the people of the time to bear a miraculous resemblance to Christ’s actual appearance.
Based on the Fake and the authentic coins above, we now know that Jesus was originally depicted with curly hair:
Thus artifacts like this "supposed" 17th century medal of Martin Luther is a fake. Because the Black Holy Roman Emperors would not allow Fake depictions of an Albino Jesus with long straight hair to exist. Thus this medal was made after the fall of the Holy Roman Empire (1806).
posted
WOw... Just Wow... This thread is truly amazing. Never knew there was a good case for Jesus and his mother being black. I thought it was just an Afronuts wet dream!
@alTakruri
Mind if I use these sources on another site?
I'm asking your permission. Plus I'm going to research further on this.
Posts: 1891 | From: NY | Registered: Sep 2014
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quote:Originally posted by BlessedbyHorus: WOw... Just Wow... This thread is truly amazing. Never knew there was a good case for Jesus and his mother being black. I thought it was just an Afronuts wet dream!
What do you mean by that? Are you admitting your past ignorance, and celebrating your introduction to truth?
Please know that Afrocentrism is a scientific discipline, not a soapbox platform. It is about revealing hidden truth, and exposing lies.
As to a Black Jesus:
Those who believe that a man native to the area of Canaan could possibly be White, are certifiably delusional, stupid, or both.
posted
Wrong Mike, Afrocentrism is about lies, claiming what isn't yours and Black supremacy. Its all about Get Whitey, Kill Whitey, Get him/her, kill him/her. Its all about "me hate Whitey chest bang chest bang, me hate Whitey chest bang chest bang, kill Whitey, get Whitey". Its all about trying to make Blacks out to superior & Whites out to be inferior non-humans. Mike stop posting the dang links to your site like its a reliable source. Its not it is a biased anti-White, White people hating, Black racist, Black supremacist site.
Posts: 3257 | From: Madisonville, KY USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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quote:Originally posted by CelticWarrioress: Wrong Mike, Afrocentrism is about lies, claiming what isn't yours and Black supremacy. Its all about Get Whitey, Kill Whitey, Get him/her, kill him/her. Its all about "me hate Whitey chest bang chest bang, me hate Whitey chest bang chest bang, kill Whitey, get Whitey". Its all about trying to make Blacks out to superior & Whites out to be inferior non-humans. Mike stop posting the dang links to your site like its a reliable source. Its not it is a biased anti-White, White people hating, Black racist, Black supremacist site.
Thread: Books for the Ages
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: I do remember saying that I love White people.
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: ^You have to learn how to recognize the loons and weed them out Doxie.
Floor mosaic at Beth Alpha Synagogue depicting the binding of Isaac. It is clear that even 2000 years ago the ancient Hebrews were considered to be dark-complexioned people. You might also consider whether the dark round figure attached to the hand of God is actually meant to be the face of God.
Dura Europos, Jesus raising Lazarus
Posts: 890 | From: London | Registered: Apr 2014
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posted
@Blessed By Horus You actually believed crazy folks came up with [The Black Madonna & Jesus Concept]? See J.A.Rogers Sex & Race Vol.1,includes Isaiah painted black in addition to Jesus & Mary compared to Auset & Heru.
-------------------- Tehutimes Posts: 115 | From: north america | Registered: Jan 2014
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Take it from pg 1 as reference for T-hotep's St Nick thread.
posted
I hope you guys have saved some of the Catacomb portraits of dark and black early Chrstians as some of these images and the hosting sites are no longer available. Brother Al, I hope you are adding the images I(and others) found to your reserves.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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