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Serpent Wizdom
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I know we have talked about the Eurasians but I can't find any of the threads. Who were these people, who are they today and where did they come from?

What is their ethnicity today?

I know nothing about them so please be kind.

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Mike111
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Eurasians are white people. They are called Eurasians because their original home was the central plains of Asia. For reasons unknown they all migrated west to Europe; in the process, displacing the indigenous Blacks who originally settled Europe. Some scientists refer to these people by their original culture name "kurgans"


The Kurgan Peoples and their arrival in Europe.




The Aryans/Arians

India - about 1,500 B.C.
The mix of Arian and Dravidian produced the Hindu.

Not all modern Indians are Hindu (the Arians never conquered southern India).

According to the CIA factbook (2000)
The Indian population is as follows: Indo-Aryan 72%, Dravidian 25%, Mongoloid and other 3% (2000)


Iran - about 800 B.C.
Arians, Parthians, and Turks are the main components in modern Iran.



The Hellenes (called Greeks)
ca. 1,200 B.C.


The Latin's (Romans)
Ca. 1,200 B.C.

Hellenes and Latins were probably part of the same original group.


The Slavs

According to the "Eastern Homeland theory" prior to becoming known to the Roman world, Slavic speaking tribes were part of the many multi-ethnic confederacies of Eurasia - such as the Sarmatian, Hun and Gothic empires. The Slavs emerged from obscurity when the westward movement of Germans in the 5th and 6th centuries A.D. (thought to be in conjunction with the movement of peoples from Siberia and Eastern Europe: Huns, and later Avars and Bulgars): started the great migration of the Slavs, who settled the lands abandoned by Germanic tribes fleeing the Huns and their allies. They moved westward into the country between the Oder and the Elbe-Saale line; southward into Bohemia, Moravia, much of present day Austria, the Pannonian plain and the Balkans; and northward along the upper Dnieper river. Perhaps some Slavs migrated with the movement of the Vandals to Iberia and north Africa.

Around the 6th century, Slavs appeared on Byzantine borders in great numbers. The Byzantine records note that grass wouldn't regrow in places where the Slavs had marched through, so great were their numbers. After military movements, even the Peloponnese and Asia Minor (Turkey) were reported to have Slavic settlements. By the end of the 6th century A.D, Slavs had settled the Eastern Alps region.

Slavic peoples are classified geographically and linguistically into West Slavic (including Czechs, Kashubians, Moravians, Poles, Silesians, Slovaks and Sorbs), East Slavic (including Belarusians, Russians, Rusyns and Ukrainians), and South Slavic (including Bosniaks, Bulgarians, Croats, Macedonians, Montenegrins, Serbs and Slovenes).



The Germanic peoples

The area of modern-day Germany in the European Iron Age was divided into the (Celtic) La Tčne in Southern Germany and the (Germanic) Jastorf culture in Northern Germany. The Germanic peoples during the Migrations Period came into contact with other peoples; in the case of the populations settling in the territory of modern Germany, they encountered Celts to the south, and Balts and Slavs towards the east. The Limes Germanicus was breached in 260 A.D, as migrating Germanic tribes commingled with the local Gallo-Roman populations in what is now Swabia and Bavaria. The migration-period peoples who would coalesce into a "German" ethnicity were the Saxones, Frisii, Franci, Thuringii, Alamanni and Bavarii. By the 800s A.D, the territory of modern Germany, had been united under the rule of Charlemagne. Much of what is now Eastern Germany remained Slavonic-speaking (Sorbs and Veleti).

The Migration Period, also called the Barbarian Invasions or Völkerwanderung (German for "wandering of the peoples"), was a period of human migration that occurred roughly between the years 300 to 700 A.D. It marked the transition from Late Antiquity to the Early Middle Ages. These movements were catalyzed by profound changes within both the Roman Empire and the so-called 'barbarian frontier'.

Migrating peoples during this period included the Goths, Vandals, Bulgars, Alans, Suebi, Frisians, and Franks, among other Germanic, and Slavic tribes.

Migrations of other peoples continued beyond 1000 A.D, marked by Viking, Magyar, Turkic and Mongol invasions, and these also had significant effects, especially in Eastern Europe.

Major Germanic Peoples: English, Norwegians, Danes, Saxons, Finni, Flemish, Franks, Icelanders, Frisians, Gall, Goths, Batavians, Calucones, Dutch, Helisii, Ingvaeones (North Sea Germans), Irminones (Elbe Germans), Istvaeones (Rhine-Weser Germans), Jutes, Juthungi, Lombards or Langobardes, Ostrogoths, Teutons, Vagoth, Vandals, Vangiones, Vargiones, Varini, Varisci, Vinoviloth, Viruni, Visburgi, Visigoths, Vispi.



The Turks
The Huns

According to Chinese records, Turks appear in the political history of Asia with the Huns. The Huns were a coalition of various central Asian nomads, including Turks. The Hun State which first appeared in the 3rd century B.C. became a significant and powerful state during the reign of its founder, Mete Khan. Having a defined and special strategy, Mete Khan defeated the Mongols and then the Yuechis. And after having conquered the western gates and trade routes of China, gained significant economic power. When Mete Khan died, the Great Hun Empire was at its peak due to its military organization, domestic and foreign policies, religion, army, war strategies and arts.


The Göktürks

After the collapse of the Asian Hun State, a new state called the Göktürk Empire was founded at the foot of the Altay Mountains. The Göktürks were the first to employ the word "Turk" in their official state name, they chose Ötüken, the former capital of the empire as a base and established khanates. Later they spread out and became an empire. They professed that a khanate could not be ruled by means of war and bravery alone and that wisdom was very important. Bilge (means wise) Khan and Kül Tegin are noted as the wisest and most heroic figures among Turkish statesmen in history. It was because of this that both these khans and Tonyukuk, another Göktürk Khan, immortalized their accomplishments with inscriptions.


The Seljuks

The main migration (expansion) of Turkic people to Anatolia, occurred at the same time as Turkic migration between the 6th and 11th centuries A.D. when they spread across most of Central Asia and into Europe, and the Middle East. The Seljuk Turks were the first Turkish power to arrive in the 11th century as conquerors. They proceeded to gradually conquer the lands of the existing Byzantine Empire. In the following centuries the local populations began to be assimilated by the arriving Turkic migrants. Over time, as word spread regarding the victory of the Turks in Anatolia, more Turkic migrants came, which helped to bolster the Turkish population. The Byzantine Greeks living in Anatolia, left the region, returning to Greece, to prevent religious conversion.


The Khazars (Jews)

The Khazars were another ancient Turkic people who first appeared in Transcaucasia, {the transitional region between Europe and Asia, extending from the Greater Caucasus to the Turkish and Iranian borders, between the Black and Caspian seas.} in the 2nd century A.D, and subsequently settled in the lower Volga region. They emerged as a force in the 7th century and rose to great power. By the 8th century the Khazar empire extended from the northern shores of the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea to the Urals and as far westward as Kiev. Also in the 8th Century, the Khazars converted to the Hebrew religion and made Judaism the State religion. “Itil” the Khazar capital in the Volga delta, was a great commercial center. The Khazar Empire fell, when Sviatoslav, duke of Kiev (945–72), son of Igor and of St. Olga, defeated its army in 965 A.D. The Khazars are the progenitors of European Jewry, the entomology of the term Jew or Jewish probably relates to these people. {Hebrews were not known as Jews}.


The Mughals

Also important were the Mughals, who name is derived from the original homelands of the Timurids, the Central Asian steppes once conquered by Genghis Khan, and hence known as Moghulistan, "Land of Mongols". Although early Mughals spoke the Chagatai language and maintained Turko-Mongol practices, they were essentially Persianized. They transferred the Persian literature and culture to India, thus forming the base for the Indo-Persian culture

The Mughal Empire was an Islamic and Persianate imperial power of the Indian subcontinent which began in 1526 and ruled most of Hindustan (South Asia) by the late 17th and early 18th centuries, and ended in the mid-19th century. The Mughal Emperors were descendants of the Timurids, and at the height of their power around 1700 A.D, they controlled most of the Indian Subcontinent — extending from present-day Bangladesh in the east to Balochistan in the west, Kashmir in the north to the Kaveri basin in the south. Its population at that time has been estimated as between 110 and 130 million.

Beginning in 1725, the Empire declined rapidly, weakened by wars of succession, agrarian crises that fueled local revolts, the growth of religious intolerance, the rise of the Maratha Empire, as well as the Sikh Empire, and finally British colonialism. The last Emperor, Bahadur Zafar Shah II, whose rule was restricted to the city of Delhi, was imprisoned and exiled by the British after the Indian Rebellion of 1857.

The "classic period" of the Empire started with the accession of Jalaluddin Mohammad Akbar, better known as Akbar the Great in 1556. It ended with the death of Emperor Aurangzeb in 1707 A.D, although the Empire continued for another 150 years. During this period, the Empire was marked by a highly centralized administration connecting the different regions. All the significant monuments of the Mughals, date to this period.


The Ottoman Empire

The successor of the Seljuks, was the Ottoman Empire (named after its first leader Osman Gazi), which began as a small tribe of nomadic Turks, but who would come to dominate the region for 600 years, its first capital was located in Bursa. In 1453 A.D, under Sultan Mehmed II, the Ottomans conquered the last stronghold of the Byzantine Empire, Constantinople (later known as Istanbul). The Empire reached its peak under Sultan Suleyman the Magnificent between 1520–1555 A.D, where territories stretched from Hungary to the Persian Gulf, from Crimea to Algeria. Following the death of Suleyman, the Empire's expansion pace slowed with successive inept administrations and began a slow course of gradual decline in 18th century A.D.

Throughout the 19th and early 20th century, the Ottoman Empire began to lose its foothold on its territories, first with Algeria and Tunisia, then Greece, Egypt, Libya and the Balkans in the 1912–1913 Balkan Wars. Faced with territorial losses on all sides, the Ottoman Empire forged an alliance with Germany who supported it with troops and equipment. In World War I the Ottoman Empire was forced into the War, after granting two German warships refuge.

On October 30, 1918, the Armistice of Mudros was signed, followed by the imposition of the Treaty of Sčvres on August 10, 1920 - which was never ratified. These sought to break up the Ottoman Empire and force large concessions on territories of the Empire in favour of its rival Greece, who had switched sides against the Germans. Greece and Italy were awarded parts of the coast of Anatolia (Turkey), while France were granted lands south of the Taurus Mountains. The city of İzmir (Smyrna) was given to Greece.


The Country - Turkey

The Republic of Turkey was the successor state of the Ottoman Empire, following the overthrow of Sultan Mehmet VI Vahdettin by the new Republican assembly of Turkey in 1922. This new regime delivered the 'coup de grâce' to the Ottoman state which had been practically wiped away from the world stage following World War I.

Turks are also known as: Azerbaijani, Bashkir, Chuvash, Kazakh, Kyrgyz, Tatar, Turkmen, Uighur, Uzbek, and Sakha.

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beyoku
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I thought Eurasia = Catch all term for Europe + Asia - Pacific Islands?:
 -

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Mike111
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Serpent Wizdom - I did not include any explanation under the Hellenes and Latins because no one really knows exactly where in Asia they came from. Since they came into Europe as illiterate Nomads, they had no way of recording their own history. In later years, they took to creating ancestor myths to explain their existence.

But we have been able to piece together something about the Hellenes in Europe. (This speaks to your question as to who they are today).


Ancient Greek civilization


The period following the Mycenaean civilization, which ended in about 1100 B.C, on to the death of Alexander the Great, in 323 B.C. was a period of political, philosophical, artistic, and scientific absorption that to this day is unparalleled. All that could be taken was taken directly from the earlier black civilizations. This combined knowledge formed a legacy with unparalleled influence on white Western civilization.

 
The Hellens
In Greek mythology, Hellen was king of Phthia (at the northern end of the Gulf of Euboea) and grandson of the god Prometheus, he was the eponymous ancestor of all true Greeks, who are called Hellenes in his honor. The Hellenes consisted of the Aeolians, Dorians, Ionians, and Achaeans, who were by mythological tradition, descended from and named for Hellen's sons, Aeolus and Dorus, and grandsons, Ion and Achaeus.


The Hellenistic Age
In the eastern Mediterranean and Middle East, is the period between the death of Alexander the Great in 323 B.C. to the conquest of Egypt by Rome in 30 B.C. For some purposes the period is extended for a further three and a half centuries, to the move by Constantine the Great of his capital to Constantinople (Byzantium) in A.D. 330.


From the breakup of Alexander's empire there arose numerous realms, including the Macedonian, the Seleucid, and the Ptolemaic, that served as the framework for the spread of Greek (Hellenic) culture, the mixture of Greek with other populations, and the fusion of Greek and Black elements.


Greece
One of the most vexing questions concerning the history of medieval Greece has been that of the extent to which the “Hellenic” population survived and brings with it the question whether this term can properly be used for anything other than as a cultural (as opposed to ethnic or racial) identity. The archaeological data, certainly, can offer answers only in terms of cultural similarities and differences, so that the question, as it has been traditionally expressed, of a Hellenic ethnic survival, cannot be answered. The issue must be explored in the context of the influx of large numbers of Slavsduring the later 6th–8th centuries as well as the migration across Greece of nomadic or semi nomadic pastoral groups such as the Vlachs from the 10th or 11th century and the Albanians from the 13th century.

Although the evidence of place-names suggests some lasting Slavic influence in parts of Greece, the evidence is qualified by the fact that the process of re-Hellenization that occurred in the later 8th century seems to have eradicated many traces of Slavic presence. Evidence of tribal names found in both the Peloponnese and northern Greece suggests that there were probably extensive Slavic-speaking populations in many districts; and from the 10th century to the 15th century Slavic occupants of various parts of the Peloponnese appear in the sources as brigands or as fiercely independent warriors. Whereas the Slavs of the south appear to have adopted Greek, those of Macedonia and Thessaly retained their original dialects, becoming only partially Hellenic in certain districts.

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AGÜEYBANÁ II (Mind718)
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quote:
Originally posted by astenb:
I thought Eurasia = Catch all term for Europe + Asia - Pacific Islands?:
 -

Australians are also considered Eurasians.


Genes, Culture, and Human Evolution. Pg 187.

[I]..."In other words, all non-Africans carry M168. Of course, Africans carrying the M168 mutation today are the descendants of the African subpopulation from which the migrants originated.... Thus, the Australian/Eurasian Adam (the ancestor of all non-Africans) was an East African Man."[ /I]

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lamin
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Difficult to undestand why Eurasia occupies all that land. Don't know why Indonesia and the Arabian peninsula are included--purely on geographical grounds.
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Mike111
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The non-natural continents are the White mans demarcation points, they reflect his ethnic and political feelings - nothing more.
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xyyman
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Check this out. Place mouse over Russia. Most of Asia is now considered Europe. Seems like Europe is the biggest "continent" in the world now. Also of note Egyot is NOT part of the "middle east" but part of Africa.

Guess there are difference in views between Euro-America and Europe.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/

BTW I thought the "continenets' were based upon some tectonic (sp?) plate.. . .except Europe. LOL. Now they they have stolen part of Asia. maybe because of the EU.

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Mike111
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:
The non-natural continents are the White mans demarcation points, they reflect his ethnic and political feelings - nothing more.

Did you think that I was joking xyyman?

North Eastern Asia is now called Europe because it is territory that was conquered and now controlled by Russia.

EVEN though the population is Mongol not White.

See how the White man works?

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Serpent Wizdom
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thanks all for your replies; especially mike111

--------------------
Occupation: TRUTH!!

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Mike111
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alTakruri
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The meaning of Eurasia has shifted or differs by
specialty.

It has meant hybrid ofspring of Europeans and Asians.

It has meant the expansive land mass comprising Asia
and its appendage Europe.

Recently population genetics have used it for all that
is not African (including markers found in populations
of the Americas).

--------------------
Intellectual property of YYT al~Takruri © 2004 - 2017. All rights reserved.

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Explorador
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quote:
Originally posted by astenb:
I thought Eurasia = Catch all term for Europe + Asia - Pacific Islands?:
 -

This map includes the Sinai peninsula in the Eurasian sphere. It is in fact African territory.
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Bob_01
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This may not be the right there, but what resulted to the development of South Asians? It seems like much of the nation is dry, or at least, sub-tropical akin to many parts of Rwanda, Tanzania and Zimbabwe.

However, the population developed traits that stand out vs. any African populations (East Africans included) and Melanesians who retained their ancestors traits. That population has developed an "exaggerated" aquiline form. Not suggest that it is due to admixture( myth), but these are traits present amongst the majority even in Southern India. Has anyone here picked up any papers on their development especially around their North Asian-esque straight hair?

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xyyman
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More interesting is why the Andemans have kinky hair and also some Austric groups

--------------------
Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming

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scv
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:
[QB] Eurasians are white people. They are called Eurasians because their original home was the central plains of Asia. For reasons unknown they all migrated west to Europe; in the process, displacing the indigenous Blacks who originally settled Europe. Some scientists refer to these people by their original culture name "kurgans"

False, the indigenous Europeans were the Gravettian the Aurignacian and the Solutrean, and they were Upper Paleolithic whites(Cro-Magnon).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravettian

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solutrean

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurignacian

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Mike111
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quote:
Originally posted by prmiddleeastern:
quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:
[QB] Eurasians are white people. They are called Eurasians because their original home was the central plains of Asia. For reasons unknown they all migrated west to Europe; in the process, displacing the indigenous Blacks who originally settled Europe. Some scientists refer to these people by their original culture name "kurgans"

False, the indigenous Europeans were the Gravettian the Aurignacian and the Solutrean, and they were Upper Paleolithic whites(Cro-Magnon).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravettian

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solutrean

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurignacian

When you said that here: Topic - The First Europeans were Khoisan

Then I said this - No need to change my message for the likes of you.


prmiddleeastern: To say that stupidity without even attempting to substantiate it with artifact or data, puts you in the same league with Dirkie and the Afroidiots. Congratulations, you have finally reached your natural level.

BTW - If you weren't such an ignorant bastard you would have noticed that your first link shows a statuette of a Steatopygia Female - that's a purely Black trait Asshole!

But aside from that, you have shown your true color. We all know that even though you are an ass-hole, you are NOT that big of an ass-hole. You know perfectly well that what you say is false, yet you felt compelled to say it anyway. As a mutt PR, I understand that you are naturally conflicted, but does it even have to carry-over into history? Or is it that you just like to fuch with the Niggers?

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scv
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:
prmiddleeastern: To say that stupidity without even attempting to substantiate it with artifact or data, puts you in the same league with Dirkie and the Afroidiots. Congratulations, you have finally reached your natural level.

The link I posted carry enough data to substantiate it.

quote:
BTW - If you weren't such an ignorant bastard you would have noticed that your first link shows a statuette of a Steatopygia Female - that's a purely Black trait Asshole!
Then why any descendant of them does not carry this characteristic?

quote:
But aside from that, you have shown your true color. We all know that even though you are an ass-hole, you are NOT that big of an ass-hole. You know perfectly well that what you say is false, yet you felt compelled to say it anyway. As a mutt PR, I understand that you are naturally conflicted, but does it even have to carry-over into history? Or is it that you just like to fuch with the Niggers?

I don't have any conflict with my mixed ancestry, neither I like to fuch with blacks, but to argue with ethno-militarists and "superblacks".
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Mike111
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^And you consider that little enjoyment sufficient reason to post falsehoods?

No my little conflicted mutt, there is more to your racial conflicts than you realize.

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scv
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:
^And you consider that little enjoyment sufficient reason to post falsehoods?

No my little conflicted mutt, there is more to your racial conflicts than you realize.

What enjoyment, to refute ethnocentrism?No, that is not something ënjoyable but the right thing, no, I don't have racial conflict, and you know lesss about my "conflicts"
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Explorador
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quote:
Originally posted by prmiddleeastern:

False, the indigenous Europeans were the Gravettian the Aurignacian and the Solutrean, and they were Upper Paleolithic whites(Cro-Magnon).

What tells you that the Cro-Magnon was white?
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scv
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quote:
Originally posted by The Explorer:
What tells you that the Cro-Magnon was white?

What tells you he was sub-saharid and not just colored?
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Bob_01
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quote:
Originally posted by xyyman:
More interesting is why the Andemans have kinky hair and also some Austric groups

Most Oceanic groups have "kinky" hair. The same goes for a rather large number of Aboriginal indigenous as well. At the most, the hair type is similar to the "East African" wavy variety. That is quite different from the, on average, East Asian-esque, straight hair.

How did that develop? The same goes for cranio-facial physical traits that seem to approximate a lot closer to Europeans. That isn't the case for Australian or Oceanean groups that approximate closer to Africans (East or West).

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Bob_01
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quote:
Originally posted by prmiddleeastern:
quote:
Originally posted by The Explorer:
What tells you that the Cro-Magnon was white?

What tells you he was sub-saharid and not just colored?
It represents the oldest humans in Europe that originated has an origin within sub-Saharan Africa. The suggestion that it would've resembled "sub-Saharan" populations must be considered.

Light skin, cold adapted body plain are more recent development. Please provide evidence that these populations were "white".

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Mike111
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The Explorer - It is characteristic of prmiddleeastern and many others, to inject such nonsense when they see Blacks pursuing a serious subject in a serious way. I suppose they figure that by doing so, they can derail the train of thought and sabotage the effective exchange of ideas. (No one ever said that they were very bright).

Though Cro-Magnon is found all over Europe, Asia and the Mediterranean, The tendency now is to locate the origin of the Cro-Magnon type Humanoid in the Middle-east: as typified by the remains found at the Jebel Qafzeh and Skhul sites in what is now Israel.

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Mike111
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Bob_01 quote: It represents the oldest humans in Europe that originated has an origin within sub-Saharan Africa. The suggestion that it would've resembled "sub-Saharan" populations must be considered.


Bob_01 - I take it that you have not been keeping up with the conversation about Cro-Magnon.

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argyle104
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Bob_01 wrote:
-----------------------------
At the most, the hair type is similar to the "East African" wavy variety.
-----------------------------


You mean like the pres. of eritrea? Is that what you mean?


Or are you merely repeating the racial pseudoscience taught to you by your white eurocentric owners?


Now watch folks how Bob_01 runs from the questions like a scalded animal.

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Explorador
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quote:
Originally posted by prmiddleeastern:

quote:
Originally posted by The Explorer:

What tells you that the Cro-Magnon was white?

What tells you he was sub-saharid and not just colored?
The difference between my question and your's is this: I questioned you on something you actually said. You are questioning me on something you said, yet again. See the irony?
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So, prmiddleeastern, here are the round up questions as of your last post:

What tells you that the Cro-Magnon was white, as you called it?

What is sub-saharid?

What is colored?

The more terms or red herrings you come up with that haven't been uttered by me, will only build up the number of questions you have to clarify. Tell me that I am wrong, when I am under the impression that you actually were not mindful of what "white" meant when you applied it to Cro-Magnons.

--------------------
The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat

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Bob_01
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quote:
Originally posted by argyle104:
Bob_01 wrote:
-----------------------------
At the most, the hair type is similar to the "East African" wavy variety.
-----------------------------


You mean like the pres. of eritrea? Is that what you mean?


Or are you merely repeating the racial pseudoscience taught to you by your white eurocentric owners?


Now watch folks how Bob_01 runs from the questions like a scalded animal.

That variety is part of continuum of indigenous African hair types. Australians and Oceanians with wavy hair tend to approximate with those African groups. On the other hand, the "typical" South Asian groups have developed a hair type that resembles North Asians.

How the hell does that have anything to do with racial pseudoscience? Human races don't exist, period.

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Bob_01
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:
Bob_01 quote: It represents the oldest humans in Europe that originated has an origin within sub-Saharan Africa. The suggestion that it would've resembled "sub-Saharan" populations must be considered.


Bob_01 - I take it that you have not been keeping up with the conversation about Cro-Magnon.

I was speaking specifically about the European "Cro-magnon" specimens. It's a very loose term and one that is being attached to North African fossils also considered of "Cro-magnon". However both remains were tropically adapted so it's very immature to suggest the remains were "white".
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Mike111
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quote:
Originally posted by Bob_01:
quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:
Bob_01 quote: It represents the oldest humans in Europe that originated has an origin within sub-Saharan Africa. The suggestion that it would've resembled "sub-Saharan" populations must be considered.


Bob_01 - I take it that you have not been keeping up with the conversation about Cro-Magnon.

I was speaking specifically about the European "Cro-magnon" specimens. It's a very loose term and one that is being attached to North African fossils also considered of "Cro-magnon". However both remains were tropically adapted so it's very immature to suggest the remains were "white".
Going on the definition that they were "Tropically Adapted" why couldn't they be White?
White people are "Tropically Adapted" just like Black people are - White skin notwithstanding.

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Bob_01
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:
quote:
Originally posted by Bob_01:
quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:
Bob_01 quote: It represents the oldest humans in Europe that originated has an origin within sub-Saharan Africa. The suggestion that it would've resembled "sub-Saharan" populations must be considered.


Bob_01 - I take it that you have not been keeping up with the conversation about Cro-Magnon.

I was speaking specifically about the European "Cro-magnon" specimens. It's a very loose term and one that is being attached to North African fossils also considered of "Cro-magnon". However both remains were tropically adapted so it's very immature to suggest the remains were "white".
Going on the definition that they were "Tropically Adapted" why couldn't they be White?
White people are "Tropically Adapted" just like Black people are - White skin notwithstanding.

White people are not tropically adapted morphologically. You could say that they don't belong to an cold adapted extreme as East Asians, but they're not tropical peoples.
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Mike111
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Bob_01 - I would really like to clear this up; If you could find something that suggests that ANY modern human ANYWHERE is NOT tropically adapted, but rather COLD adapted, then please post it so that it can be discussed.

Because MY understanding is that ALL Modern Humans, regardless of their current location or skin color; by virtue of their African genesis, are ALL TROPICALLY ADAPTED.

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AGÜEYBANÁ II (Mind718)
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quote:
Originally posted by Bob_01:
quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:
quote:
Originally posted by Bob_01:
quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:
Bob_01 quote: It represents the oldest humans in Europe that originated has an origin within sub-Saharan Africa. The suggestion that it would've resembled "sub-Saharan" populations must be considered.


Bob_01 - I take it that you have not been keeping up with the conversation about Cro-Magnon.

I was speaking specifically about the European "Cro-magnon" specimens. It's a very loose term and one that is being attached to North African fossils also considered of "Cro-magnon". However both remains were tropically adapted so it's very immature to suggest the remains were "white".
Going on the definition that they were "Tropically Adapted" why couldn't they be White?
White people are "Tropically Adapted" just like Black people are - White skin notwithstanding.

White people are not tropically adapted morphologically. You could say that they don't belong to an cold adapted extreme as East Asians, but they're not tropical peoples.
You'll waste your time with lil Mike, he'll just say "its the white mans bullsh1t" to anything you show him, lol.

Even the short stature of Pygmies doesn't take away from their tropical adaptations, since Pygmies exhibit higher crural index's (tropical adaptations) than say Lapps, Belgium's, Yugoslavians, American whites etc.. all of whom are usually taller on average.

Height is not in question which is what Mike seems to believe, but rather it's body form, longer limbs which help dissipate heat quicker (while shorter limb proportions supposedly helps to preserve heat). Also darker skin which has the ability to protect against harmful UV rays and protect the folate reserves so to produce healthy reproductive offspring.

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Mike111
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:
Bob_01 - I would really like to clear this up; If you could find something that suggests that ANY modern human ANYWHERE is NOT tropically adapted, but rather COLD adapted, then please post it so that it can be discussed.

Because MY understanding is that ALL Modern Humans, regardless of their current location or skin color; by virtue of their African genesis, are ALL TROPICALLY ADAPTED.

Mindlessone - Fine, I will address the question to you also.

Please post something, or cease and desist.

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AGÜEYBANÁ II (Mind718)
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(Stringer and Gamble, 1993, p. 92).

crural index = Tibia/Femur length

modern peoples 79% in Lapps 86% in Black African groups

Group crural Mean annual temp C index average

Neanderthal 79% ?

Modern peoples

Lapps 79% .25

modern Inuit 81.5% 4

Belgium 82.5% 10

S.African white 83.2% 8.5

Yugoslav 83.75% 8.4

American white 82.6% 9.8

Kalahari Bushman 83.4% 18

New MexicoIndian 84.6% 14

S.African black 86.4% 17

Arizona Indian 85.5% 18

Melanesian 84.8% 23

Pygmy 85.1% 24.2

Egyptian 84.9% 26.1

American Black 85.25% 26

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Mike111
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Mindlessone - Thank you very much.
It is always good to have real-life examples of how idiot White Boys try to use science to prove their stupid White Boy race theories.

Additionally, it also makes my point that NEANDERTHAL WAS THE ONLY "COLD ADAPTED" CREATURE!!!

BECAUSE YOU WILL NOTE THAT ALL MEASUREMENTS ARE AGAINST NEANDERTHAL!!!!



In Search of the Neanderthals - Stringer, Chris and Clive Gamble, 1993.


"In their relatively heavy bodies the Neanderthals seem to conform to Bergmann's rule, and in the shorter ends of their limbs to Allen's rule. That the Neanderthal physique was partly determined by climate is further supported by the slight differences in limb proportions between the Neanderthals who lived in glaciated Europe and those who lived in the less extreme climates of the Middle East."

Bergman's rule is that body weights of an animals will tend to be greater in colder climates. And Allen's rule is that their limb proportions will be shorter. These rules have a wide application across many species. Thus Stringer accepts the climate-induced selection pressure that created the Neanderthal physique. How do we measure body form?

Neandertals apparently followed Allens rule by shortening their legs and arms, but they did it by altering the body form. The body form is measured by numerous indices such as the crural and brachial indices which are measurements of the limb lengths. The crural and brachial index quantizes Allen's rule. The crural index is defined as "the length of the tibia/ the length of the femur". One can multiply by 100 if he wants but it doesn't matter. Bergman's rule is measured by the robusticity of the bones. This is because a being with greater body mass needs more robust bones to support the extra weight. So, when looking for differences between modern and Neanderthal we need to look at these types of measures.

Here is how these rules apply to the Lagar Velho child. When we examine various populations, fossil and modern, we find a range of values for the brachial, crural and robusticity indices. Unfortunately the Lagar Velho child's radius is incomplete so the brachial index can't be studied. Here is the data presented by Stringer and Gamble (once again I want to use Stringer's data so that an Out of Africa proponents data is in play). This data is taken from a chart on page 92 of Stringer and Gamble (Stringer and Gamble, 1993, p. 92).

crural index = Tibia/Femur length
modern peoples 79% in Lapps
86% in Black African groups
Group crural Mean annual temp C
index

average Neanderthal 79% ?

Modern peoples
Lapps 79% .25
modern Inuit 81.5% 4
Belgium 82.5% 10
S.African white 83.2% 8.5
Yugoslav 83.75% 8.4
American white 82.6% 9.8
Kalahari Bushman 83.4% 18
New MexicoIndian 84.6% 14
S.African black 86.4% 17
Arizona Indian 85.5% 18
Melanesian 84.8% 23
Pygmy 85.1% 24.2
Egyptian 84.9% 26.1
American Black 85.25% 26

One sees at once that the subtropical peoples have a higher crural index than those living in cold climates. This amazingly even applies to the pygmies. Shortness is not at issue here. Body form is.

Lagar Velho has a crural index of .782 which as can be seen is lower than all anatomically modern peoples including the Lapps. This value, as we shall see is lower than ALL values for ALL anatomically modern, African invaders.

What of the Lapps. I am going to claim that is is perilously close to circular reasoning to use the Lapps as an analogue to compare with the Neanderthals for one reason. Lapps occupy a region very close to the former Neanderthal territories. If there has been any hybridization, the low crural index of the Lapps might be indicative of that hybridization. In other words one cannot tell if their squatness was due to genetic heritage or the accumulation of the trait since the invasion of anatomically modern peoples. The only way one can use the Lapps as evidence that a low crural index means that the Lagar Velho child is nothing special is if they ASSUME THAT THERE WAS NO HYBRIDIZATION. That is assuming the conclusion! I would say that the Inuit make a better case for the acquisition of a low crural index by the African invaders. This is because the Inuit were nowhere near the Neanderthal homelands.

On the other hand, if one insists on using the Lapps as evidence that the Lagar Velho child is within the range of variation of modern humans, then it clearly argues in favor of Neanderthals being within modern human variation in this regard. Neanderthal's averaged close to the Lapp average. And if Neanderthals were within modern human variation, then there is little reason to claim, as Tattersall and Schwartz claim, that Neanderthal is a separate species. Thus they are hoisted on their own petard. Tattersall and Schwartz seem to want to have it both ways.

About 100,000 years ago, anatomically near modern peoples appeared in the Middle East at Skhul and Qafzeh Caves. So, we should look to these peoples for the archetypes of the modern humans who invaded Europe. But we do need to be careful in our analysis. Neanderthals lived in the Middle East along with anatomically modern men and if there could be hybridization in Spain, then it could have happened in the Mid East also. What do we find? We find that, with one exception, all the Skhul/Qafzeh skeletons clearly have subtropical body forms. Frayer shows the crural index on the Skhul/Qafzeh peoples. There are three individuals with enough skeletal matter to make this measurement on. One has a crural index of 89, one has an index of 86 and Skhul V has an 80.(Frayer, p. 33, 68, Fig 9)

Obviously, one can argue that Skhul V shows that the range of the crural index is so great as to make meaningless the measure on the Lagar Velho child. But in anthropology things are rarely that simple. Two things argue against this position. The Lagar Velho child has a crural index of .782 which is much smaller than the .80 of Skhul V. But then Skhul V has been suggested to be an hybrid also. Johanson and Blake (1997, p. 242) write of Skhul V:


Notes for All:

The people LOWEST on the scale are NEANDERTHALS, Lapps and modern Inuit. Neanderthals were Black, Lapps and modern Inuit are BROWN SKINNED PEOPLE | NOT WHITE PEOPLE. Therefore White skin CANNOT be a COLD WEATHER ADAPTATION!!!!


MORE:

What do all of these people whose measurements are basically the same, have in common besides crural index?

NOTHING!!!!
NOTHING!!!!
NOTHING!!!!


Belgium (White) 82.5%

S.African (white) 83.2%

Yugoslav (White) 83.75%

American (white) 82.6%

Kalahari Bushman (BLACK) 83.4%


In general, Blacks and Whites have similar values in this index.

So what is the value of the crural index?

NOTHING!!!!
NOTHING!!!!
NOTHING!!!!

Just more crazy assed White boys with bogus studies.

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Mike111
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^CORRECTION:

The crural index DOES have ONE value.

It proves that White skin is NOT a COLD WEATHER ADAPTION, or ANY adaption for that matter.

Therefore, there is only ONE reason for it's existence.

ALBINISM!!!

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zarahan aka Enrique Cardova
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quote:
Originally posted by lamin:
Difficult to undestand why Eurasia occupies all that land. Don't know why Indonesia and the Arabian peninsula are included--purely on geographical grounds.

Part of it is the manipulation, hypocrisy and double standards of the Eurocentric ideological project or model. They have these broad ranges for 'Eurasian" enabling them to claim or appropriate the heritage of more peoples, in terms of the model, but when it comes to Africa, they somehow can't locate Ethiopia in "sub- Saharan" Africa, Somalians become white, and everything not the narrowly drawn "true negro" can be conveniently classified as something else.. 'Eurasia" in not primarily a geographic construct. It is part and parcel of Eurocentric double standards.
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