About 800 BC, in central Italy, a mysterious culture flourished.
These people, called the Etruscans, are today regarded as the real founders of Rome.
The Romans were first a subject people of the Etruscans and later their conquerors.
Some Greeks held that the Etruscans were a branch of the Pelasgians, aboriginal inhabitants of the Aegean region.
The Pelasgians may have been the Sea People who around 1200 B.C. invaded the Egyptian Empire.
It was discovered that most of the languages of Europe belonged to one big language family called Indo-European but Etruscan was not one of them. The technology of DNA analysis has been applied to the question of origins.
A study published in the April 2007 issue of The American Journal of Human Genetics reports finding eleven lineages of mitochondrial DNA in Tuscany that have not been found elsewhere in Europe but do occur in the Near East.
In the Etruscan ruins there are craft objects from Greece, North Africa, southern France and Iberia.
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xyyman - They didn't start off multi-ethnic; Because of invasion by Whites they BECAME multi-ethnic.
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Some believe there is any relationship between Berbers and etruscans:
"On Etruscan and Libyan Names; A Comprative Study. By Daniel G. Brinton, M.D. (Read before the American Philosophical Society, Febrauray 7, 1890)
I- Introductory: Libyan Epigraphy In October last (1889) I laid before this Society a series of considerations drawn from the physical traits of the Etruscans, their customs, arts and language, going to show that they were an offshoot or colony of the Libyans or Numidians of North Africa -that stock now represented by the Kabyles of Algeria, the Rifians of Morocco, the Touaregs of the Great Desert and the other so-called Berber tribes. So far as I was aware, this opinion had never been advanced before, although it wo uld seem a natural and obvious one. Nor have I yet found that any writer ahd clearly stated it previously; though I have discovered that occasional earlier observers have been struck with some of the resemblances which so impressed me, and I am glad to add the weight of their testimony to my own. Thus, M. Louis Rinn, Vice-President of the Historical Society of Algiers, after alluding to what he considers a point of resemblance between the Berber and the Etruscan language, adds, "A comparative study of these two peoples would certainly bring into prominence other similarities, yet more remarkable, in their tongues."* M. Rinn quotes the old travelers, Dr. T. Shaw, as suggesting one or more similarities in Kabyle and Etruscan place names, but he gives no exact reference, and a search through Shaw's Travels has not enabled me to find the passages...
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there is no evidence that the Etruscans were multi ethnic and none has been presented here. This is simply an effort to morph a race of slaves into a factor in world history.
Posts: 2036 | From: Texas | Registered: Sep 2009
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Quote: . All mitochondrial lineages observed among the Etruscans appear typically European or West Asian, but only a few haplotypes were found to have an exact match in a modern mitochondrial database, raising new questions about the Etruscans’ fate after their assimilation into the Roman state
Translation: They are not phenotypically European but the mtDNA is European. In other words they did not LOOK like modern Europeans.
Seems like the ***Haplotype**** vs haploGroup is really where the rubber hits the road in genetics.
=== The Etruscans: A Population-Genetic Study Cristiano Vernesi,1 David Caramelli,2 Isabelle Dupanloup,1,* Giorgio Bertorelle,1 Martina Lari,2 Enrico Cappellini,2 Jacopo Moggi-Cecchi,2 Brunetto Chiarelli,2 Loredana Castrı`,3 Antonella Casoli,4 Francesco Mallegni,5 Carles Lalueza-Fox,6 and Guido Barbujani1
The origins of the Etruscans, a non-Indo-European population of preclassical Italy, are unclear. There is broad agreement that their culture developed locally, but the Etruscans’ evolutionary and migrational relationships are largely unknown. In this study, we determined mitochondrial DNA sequences in multiple clones derived from bone samples of 80 Etruscans who lived between the 7th and the 3rd centuries B.C. In the first phase of the study, we eliminated all specimens for which any of nine tests for validation of ancient DNA data raised the suspicion that either degradation or contamination by modern DNA might have occurred. On the basis of data from the remaining 30 individuals, the Etruscans appeared as genetically variable as modern populations. No significant heterogeneity emerged among archaeological sites or time periods, suggesting that different Etruscan communities shared not only a culture but also a mitochondrial gene pool. Genetic distances and sequence comparisons show closer evolutionary relationships with the eastern Mediterranean shores for the Etruscans than for modern Italian populations. All mitochondrial lineages observed among the Etruscans appear typically European or West Asian, but only a few haplotypes were found to have an exact match in a modern mitochondrial database, raising new questions about the Etruscans’ fate after their assimilation into the Roman state.
Paleoanthropological studies have only proved broad similarities between the Etruscans and their neighbors of the Iron Age (Barker and Rasmussen 1998). Archaeological evidence suggests that the Etruscan culture developed locally, with some features pointing to an Eastern influence (Pallottino 1975; Barker and Rasmussen 1998). However, it is not clear if such influence reflects only trading and cultural exchange or rather some sort of shared biological ancestry.
more to come.. . . .
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Hammer: there is no evidence that the Etruscans were multi ethnic and none has been presented here. This is simply an effort to morph a race of slaves into a factor in world history.
Hammerhead - Where on Earth did you get the idea that Etruscans were slaves? This is a bizarre new low in intelligence, even for you.
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xyyman - You might want to reconsider your interpretations of their interpretations - remember, they ARE White people. Falsehoods and false interpretations are their stockntrade - it's best to remember that.
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: xyyman - They didn't start off multi-ethnic; Because of invasion by Whites they BECAME multi-ethnic.
LOL!
.
Check-out the little needle-dick piece of suburban White trash. His response to everything is LOL. You would think that they would at least teach them how to string sentences together - Oh, ya, right, that wouldn't teach them how to think of something intelligent to say.
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I wasn't talking about Etruscans being slaves Mike but rather blacks being a race of slaves. You missed my point.
Posts: 2036 | From: Texas | Registered: Sep 2009
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I am well aware that many of these papers are written by white people.
My mantra is always "we as black people got to use common sense when intepreting the data". This is one of many things we have an edge on compared to non-colored people. We are not prejudicial so we inteprete the data logically.
Any info you have on the Etruscans will be appreciated.
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: xyyman - You might want to reconsider your interpretations of their interpretations - remember, they ARE White people. Falsehoods and false interpretations are their stockntrade - it's best to remember that.
Now the question is . . .how is this possible? How can an ancient people be phenotypically different from the current inhabitants but carry the same, or similar, lineage(mtDNA).
Any suggestions . . . anyone?
====== . All mitochondrial lineages observed among the Etruscans appear typically European or West Asian, but only a few haplotypes were found to have an exact match in a modern mitochondrial database, raising new questions about the Etruscans’ fate after their assimilation into the Roman state
Translation: They are not phenotypically European but the mtDNA is European. In other words they did not LOOK like modern Europeans.
Seems like the ***Haplotype**** vs haploGroup is really where the rubber hits the road in genetics.Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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A calculated guess is. . . assimilation and/or extermination or MANY/NOT ALL of the native inhabitants.
Is 600yrs enough for a people to . . .morph? NO!!!
Based upon data from this study and what we know about genetics. For a given population HG CAN NOT but haplotype can.
So obviously the newcomers took the women as wives. Their phenotype eventually becoming dominant.
Are these the women . . . Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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oh please xyy, you guys are the most bigoted people walking around on two legs. If you truly hjad "common sense" as you say you guys would not have spend thousands of years as a race of slaves.
Posts: 2036 | From: Texas | Registered: Sep 2009
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oh please xyy, you guys are the most bigoted people walking around on two legs. If you truly hjad "common sense" as you say you guys would not have spend thousands of years as a race of slaves. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Recovering-Afro-holic Member Member # 17311
Rate Member posted 24 March, 2010 02:26 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I just came off stormfront and I got whitey mad as hell.LMBAO......................... Oh the games we play so well, but in mind im stupid as hell.
Where were you. And you didnt run me off ES, you know why I left.
They Figured my Black AZZ out!LMBAO
They keep deleting my post, but im going back Rat Now........................ Im persistent.
Hammer Eat My Black Nuts...Dumb EuroMonster
Posts: 416 | From: Solar System | Registered: Mar 2010
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Obviously the Ancient Etruscans are NOT contemporary Europeans.
Notice the Etruscan, Egyptians do not group with other Europeans. See chart above..
By themselves, DNA sequences cannot tell us who the Etruscans were and where they came from, but they can provide crucial information on two related questions: • 1. Were the Etruscans a single population, or were they simply a set of individuals who shared a language and a culture but not a common ancestry? • 2. What are the genetic relationships between the Etruscans and modern populations, and do these relationships suggest any genealogical or migrational links between the Etruscans and other Eurasians
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Rate Member posted 24 March, 2010 02:21 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Me and Recovering-Afroholic have left ES due to us finally recognizing that Egypt was a Master Black Race. We have now moved on to Stormfront to change the mind of our Ex-Euroloonies.
Wish US Luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank All Of You For helping Us realize the truth, it has set us free.
Special Thanks to: Mike111 Al-tulari MindoverMatter xxyman IronLion DrClydeWinters Djheuti Narmer MarcWashington EdmongCodfried And all other who have influenced my new way of thinking. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fvck You to: Hammer Fawal PrideandJust Mazigh Simplegirl Matildas Blog Stormfront Europe Caucasian Albinos Nazis And to all those EuroSlaves I left out fvck yall too. Posts: 48 | Registered: Mar 2010 | IP: Logged |
Recovering-Afro-holic Member Member # 17311
Rate Member posted 24 March, 2010 02:26 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I just came off stormfront and I got whitey mad as hell.LMBAO......................... Oh the games we play so well, but in mind im stupid as hell.
Where were you at? And for the record you didnt run me off ES, you know why I left.
They Figured my Black AZZ out!LMBAO
They keep deleting my post, but im going back Rat Now........................ Im persistent. *Hammer Eat My Black Nuts....Dumb piece of EuroShyt. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 416 | From: Solar System | Registered: Mar 2010
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xyyman - You missed the conclusion from this rather Whitenized study.
The Etruscans: A Population-Genetic Study Cristiano Vernesi,1 David Caramelli,2 Isabelle Dupanloup,1,* Giorgio Bertorelle,1 Martina Lari,2 Enrico Cappellini,2 Jacopo Moggi-Cecchi,2 Brunetto Chiarelli,2 Loredana Castrı`,3 Antonella Casoli,4 Francesco Mallegni,5 Carles Lalueza-Fox,6 and Guido Barbujani1
Etruscans show closer relationships both to North Africans and to Turks than any contemporary population. In particular, the Turkish component in their gene pool appears three times as large as in the other populations.
This is a very good example of how Whites falsify even the truth.
They do not say that they are looking and the admixture genes in modern Turks; because as we know, the type of people who make up the modern population of Turkey, did not exist at the time of the Etruscans.
Ancient Etruscans Unlikely Ancestors Of Modern Tuscans, Testing Reveals.
News story from the Science Daily — For the first time, Stanford university researchers have used statistical computer modeling to simulate demographic processes affecting the population of the Tuscany region of Italy over a 2,500-year time span. Rigorous tests used by the researchers have ruled out a genetic link between Ancient Etruscans, the original inhabitants of central Italy, and the region's modern day residents.
The findings indicate (as is obvious from the pictured artifacts), that the Ancient Etruscans had little in common with the people who later came to Italy, said Joanna Mountain, assistant professor of anthropological sciences. The findings as documented in ''Serial Coalescent Simulations” indicate a Weak Genealogical Relationship Between Etruscans and Modern Tuscans. The study was published May 15, 2006 in the online version of the National Academy of Sciences. Uma Ramakrishnan, a former Stanford postdoctoral fellow, and Elise M. S. Belle along with Guido Barbujani of the University of Ferrara in Italy, co-authored the paper with Mountain.
To date; the Etruscans are the only pre-classical European population that has been genetically analyzed, Mountain said. Two years ago, Italian geneticists extracted maternally inherited mitochondrial DNA from the bones of 27 people called Etruscans found in six different necropolises (burial sites) in Tuscany. The female lineage was investigated because, unlike the male Y chromosome, many copies of mitochondrial DNA are found in each cell and thus are easier to extract, Mountain explained. The finding is important because it questions the common assumption that residents of a particular place are descendants of its earlier inhabitants, Mountain said. Note: This story has been adapted from a news release issued by Stanford University.
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The following site is a good reference for Etruscan art. The tombs section shows the murals found in various tombs depicting both light and dark skinned people.
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Apocalypse - That is a good site for art, however as is typical with all Whites, they try to spin it to seem like Whites were Etruscans too. Of course in real life that is NOT possible.
But try telling that to the Turks who call themselves Berbers or Arabs. As a matter of fact, many noble Roman families claimed descent from Etruscans, even when there was no relationship.
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^ in real life you are a lunatic who has too much access to the hospital's computer.
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:That is a good site for art, however as is typical with all Whites, they try to spin it to seem like Whites were Etruscans too.
Well many, if not most, of the people depicted in the tombs were somewhat dark. At least superficially, they remind me of the depictions of Minoans. The larger question is do they represent a remnant of the original European population before the gene for white skin swept through (I know you don't buy this theory Mike) or do they represent the early farming population that originated in the Levant (not forgetting the contributions of E3b from Africa)? There may be some other possibilites of course.
Posts: 1038 | From: Franklin Park, NJ | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Apocalypse: Mike111 wrote:
quote:That is a good site for art, however as is typical with all Whites, they try to spin it to seem like Whites were Etruscans too.
Well many, if not most, of the people depicted in the tombs were somewhat dark. At least superficially, they remind me of the depictions of Minoans. The larger question is do they represent a remnant of the original European population before the gene for white skin swept through (I know you don't buy this theory Mike) or do they represent the early farming population that originated in the Levant (not forgetting the contributions of E3b from Africa)? There may be some other possibilites of course.
As you know, I consider the nonsense of the Blacks of Europe suddenly turning White 6,000 to 12,000 years ago - PURE LUNACY!!!!
However, in deference to you, I will treat it seriously this one time.
So then; if the Blacks in Europe suddenly turned White 6,000 to 12,000 years ago; how come so many of them are STILL Black by 2,600 years ago?
quote:As you know, I consider the nonsense of the Blacks of Europe suddenly turning White 6,000 to 12,000 years ago - PURE LUNACY!!!!
However, in deference to you, I will treat it seriously this one time.
So then; if the Blacks in Europe suddenly turned White 6,000 to 12,000 years ago; how come so many of them are STILL Black by 2,600 years ago?
Mike, a demic wave of non-Europeans from the levant brought farming to Europe. Also, the Southern European variant of Sickle cell originated in West Africa. Additionally, there was undoubtedly trade between Africa and Europe. Egyptians and Phoenicians established colonies in Europe. There is no mystery to the presence of non white people in Europe during prehistoric, proto historic, or historic times.
Posts: 1038 | From: Franklin Park, NJ | Registered: Aug 2005
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Italians, Etruscans and Greeks: Genetics and Ethnicity Dr. Orville Boyd Jenkins
Arab Gene? The term "Arab gene flows" troubles me also, since this reads back into pre-history a comparatively recent identification. At the depth of 10,000 years and more, I don't see how we can identify anything as what we now know by the term "Arab."
What we do see is that a stream of human movement that seems to have moved through the middle of what we call the Arabian Peninsula thruogh what is now Syria then on westward moved into the peninsula we now know as Italy. This, you will note on the excellent and amazing genetic mapping of National Geographic, is only one of two major streams they indicate.
The other genetic stream comes from northern Asia, through northern Europe and down western Europe into the northern Italian Peninsula.
The sequential "tracer genes" in human male DNA give us a rough time frame and sequence of human migration, but don't tell us about the physical characteristics or types as such. The people known as "Arabs" now are also a descendant people, and mixed, even in the Arabian Peninsula. There is a wide range of shades, physical types, and characteristics among the "Arab" peoples.
It would seem that the farther back in time we go, the less differentiated the gene pool of any particular population group would be. This is because all indications are that all human populations developed from the same origin. All differentiation came from an original population group.
Dark Greeks Lots of dark people speak Greek today. Western Europeans usually think of Greeks as dark-haired, dark-eyed and darker skinned. But this tends to be a characteristic of all the Mediterranean peoples. It seems likely that the Greek-speaking peoples moved in on a darker race, pre-inhabiting the region.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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Apocalypse - The advent or introduction of Farming in Europe, is often cited by some, as THE defining point in European history - I fail to see how.
The first Humans in Europe, the Grimaldi, were not farmers - they were hunter gathers.
The White invaders, and current masters of Europe were not farmers - they were nomadic pasturalists.
In my mind, those are the defining points in European history. What's farming go to do with that?
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^^Apocalypse - This White thing with farming in Europe is perplexing to me. White anthropologists keep citing its introduction to Europe from the Levant as a defining moment in Europe. I am sure that in their minds it must in some way support their spin on history - I don't see how, but they must.
But even their spin on farming is NOT necessarily accurate. Note the finds at Kostenki.
The Kostenki - Borshevo sites (34,000 B.C.) are a group of more than twenty settlements from the same culture, on the right bank of the Don River, south of Voronezh Russia, about 470 km south from Moscow. The basic excavations were conducted in the 1920s - 1930s by P. Yefimenko, and in the 1940s - 1960s by A. N. Rogachev. Kostenki is known for high concentration of cultural remains of modern humans from beginning of Upper Paleolithic era.
The villages of Kostenki and Borshevo contained five cultural layers. In the upper layer were preserved the remains of dwellings with hearths located along the central longitudinal axis of the dwellings, together with storage pits. Flint tools and hoes made from mammoth tusks, bone digging implements, a baton from deer horn, and about forty female statuettes made from both ivory and marl/limestone, figurines of a bear, cavelion and anthropomorphous marl heads. Triangular flint tools are found in the lowermost layer with a concave base, retouched with a pressure process.
Hoes and digging implements?????? Don't these people sound like FARMERS????
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Looks like the idiot board is back in business. There is no evidence that the people in greece when the indo europeans arrived were black....none. There is no evidence that these people introduced farming to anyone. the question of the arrival of farming in Europe is highly debated and in question. You guys make these assumptions based on what you would like to see, not on any viable evidence of any kind.
Posts: 2036 | From: Texas | Registered: Sep 2009
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^^For those who find the above strange, please remember that as English speaking people, the history that we are taught is from a WESTERN EUROPEAN prospective. As such, it centers the world around Western Europe - just as Whites in general tend to center all history around them.
But a look at a map of the last ice age brings it all into focus. As you can see, during this period when Western Europe was locked in glacial ice, Eastern Europe was not effected in the least. This allowed those people to progress unencumbered by the ice age.
quote:Originally posted by Hammer: Looks like the idiot board is back in business. There is no evidence that the people in greece when the indo europeans arrived were black....none. There is no evidence that these people introduced farming to anyone. the question of the arrival of farming in Europe is highly debated and in question. You guys make these assumptions based on what you would like to see, not on any viable evidence of any kind.
That's what I like about you hammerhead, whenever I need an example of White intellect, I can ALWAYS count on you.
So then, lets do a little exercise in deductive reasoning. If the acknowledged first Humans in Southern Europe were the Black Grimaldi, and the first Humans in Eastern Europe were the Black Carpathians. Meanwhile Whites were in Central Asia, and Mongols were even further away in Eastern Asia - I don't know - a wild guess maybe, but I say that the first humans in Greece were likely the same type people as the rest of Europe - You know, like Blacks, Negros, Niggers, Spooks, whatever your creative mind wants to call them - er, Dad?
posted
Mike. That's the point I am making. Greece and all of Southern Europe was a multi-ethnic community.
==== It seems likely that the Greek-speaking peoples moved in on a darker race, pre-inhabiting the region. ====
Etruscans show closer relationships both to North Africans and to Turks than any contemporary population. ======
Dark Greeks Lots of dark people speak Greek today. Western Europeans usually think of Greeks as dark-haired, dark-eyed and darker skinned. But this tends to be a characteristic of all the Mediterranean peoples. It seems likely that the Greek-speaking peoples moved in on a darker race, pre-inhabiting the region.
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: xyyman - You missed the conclusion from this rather Whitenized study.
The Etruscans: A Population-Genetic Study Cristiano Vernesi,1 David Caramelli,2 Isabelle Dupanloup,1,* Giorgio Bertorelle,1 Martina Lari,2 Enrico Cappellini,2 Jacopo Moggi-Cecchi,2 Brunetto Chiarelli,2 Loredana Castrı`,3 Antonella Casoli,4 Francesco Mallegni,5 Carles Lalueza-Fox,6 and Guido Barbujani1
Etruscans show closer relationships both to North Africans and to Turks than any contemporary population. In particular, the Turkish component in their gene pool appears three times as large as in the other populations.
This is a very good example of how Whites falsify even the truth.
They do not say that they are looking and the admixture genes in modern Turks; because as we know, the type of people who make up the modern population of Turkey, did not exist at the time of the Etruscans.
Ancient Etruscans Unlikely Ancestors Of Modern Tuscans, Testing Reveals.
News story from the Science Daily — For the first time, Stanford university researchers have used statistical computer modeling to simulate demographic processes affecting the population of the Tuscany region of Italy over a 2,500-year time span. Rigorous tests used by the researchers have ruled out a genetic link between Ancient Etruscans, the original inhabitants of central Italy, and the region's modern day residents.
The findings indicate (as is obvious from the pictured artifacts), that the Ancient Etruscans had little in common with the people who later came to Italy, said Joanna Mountain, assistant professor of anthropological sciences. The findings as documented in ''Serial Coalescent Simulations” indicate a Weak Genealogical Relationship Between Etruscans and Modern Tuscans. The study was published May 15, 2006 in the online version of the National Academy of Sciences. Uma Ramakrishnan, a former Stanford postdoctoral fellow, and Elise M. S. Belle along with Guido Barbujani of the University of Ferrara in Italy, co-authored the paper with Mountain.
To date; the Etruscans are the only pre-classical European population that has been genetically analyzed, Mountain said. Two years ago, Italian geneticists extracted maternally inherited mitochondrial DNA from the bones of 27 people called Etruscans found in six different necropolises (burial sites) in Tuscany. The female lineage was investigated because, unlike the male Y chromosome, many copies of mitochondrial DNA are found in each cell and thus are easier to extract, Mountain explained. The finding is important because it questions the common assumption that residents of a particular place are descendants of its earlier inhabitants, Mountain said. Note: This story has been adapted from a news release issued by Stanford University.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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First of all none of the groups you mentioned built any sort of advanced sivilization in Europe or anywhere else. Secondly, the arriveal of farming in europe is a hotly debated question. It is interesting that you have all the answers while experts in the field do not.
Posts: 2036 | From: Texas | Registered: Sep 2009
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We have similar views on some things but you know I don't agree with the view that modern Europeans are an "ostracized Albino African race".
I also agree that the BS line that agriculture was the stimulus that generated the white skin is nonsense.
What you and MK is premising is only part of the story. Maybe nature found a way to control the OCA2(?) gene thus regulating the melanin production but I always go back to all the triggers.
1. latitude, above 41st parallel 2. long winters, lot's of clothing 3. The epicenter northern Europe 4. etc
ALL southern European communities had enough vit D foods(fish), game etc .. . .AND sunlight to NOT need the white skin to survive.
The White skin, light eyes came from elsewhere and invaded southern Europe. The evidence points to about 2000-1500BC. "Selective sweep" occuring about at 500bc.
PS @ Sage- Mike is one of the best posters on this site. . .among the others you mentioned.
There are some great black minds here eg Akoben(anguish), MelaninKing(meninarmer), Dana Mich. etc even Yonis has his moments.
Of course the same does NOT go for pest such Recovered, Hammer. etc
But back to the topic.. . . .
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Hammer: First of all none of the groups you mentioned built any sort of advanced sivilization in Europe or anywhere else. Secondly, the arriveal of farming in europe is a hotly debated question. It is interesting that you have all the answers while experts in the field do not.
First of all - Thank you.
But in all fairness, the reason Whites have a problem figuring it out, is because like you, they are trying to do it while at the same time, trying to incorporate Whites into it. That will never work, Whites simply had no part.
As to your first point - that is actually a very good question. Where did the Black builders of Europe's first civilization come from? Were they of the original Black settlers of Europe, or were they a NEW people from Crete or Anatolia, or even somewhere else?
At this point, there is not enough evidence to say.
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what we need to avoid is drawing conclusions about thanks in which we have limited information. Historians argue over things that happened 100 years ago, much less 15,000 years ago. In reality, who was wandering around Europe, black, white or green in 10,000 bc might be interesting but it has almost no impact or import on the historical period.
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Mike, I brought up farming in response to your question about the presence of non-white people in Europe 2600 years ago.
quote:So then; if the Blacks in Europe suddenly turned White 6,000 to 12,000 years ago; how come so many of them are STILL Black by 2,600 years ago?
I was simply trying to show that there are mainstream scenarios that account for this presence.
Posts: 1038 | From: Franklin Park, NJ | Registered: Aug 2005
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^^Ya, I know. That's why I brought the Eastern Europeans into it. Point being, if they were farming from who knows how long ago, how could farmers from the Levant have significant impact in Europe? There must have been more to it than just farming.
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Not all the specialists think they learned farming from the Levant. The problem is the wide span of time that has to be dealt with and only fragmentary bits of information. It often difficult to arrive at a conclusion because of context peoblems.
Posts: 2036 | From: Texas | Registered: Sep 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Hammer: Not all the specialists think they learned farming from the Levant. The problem is the wide span of time that has to be dealt with and only fragmentary bits of information. It often difficult to arrive at a conclusion because of context peoblems.
posted
^^Everyone knows that farming was diffused into Europe from the near east, this is main stream consensus and in virtually every archaeological text book you'll read. Hammered is talking circles around you Mike, there's nothing "true" about the above post. The debate is centered around "how" it was diffused, not if.
quote:"Settlers from the Middle East were Europe’s first farmers. Middle Eastern agriculturalists initially brought farming into southeastern Europe.
As for the Etruscans, they were clearly Middle Eastern and likely derive from the initial Neolithic farmers that populated the area.
The DNA of the people not only attest to this, but of the animals they brought with them to Europe.
quote:In the region corresponding to ancient Etruria (Tuscany, Central Italy), several Bos taurus breeds have been reared since historical times. These breeds have a strikingly high level of mtDNA variation, which is found neither in the rest of Italy nor in Europe. The Tuscan bovines are genetically closer to Near Eastern than to European gene pools and this Eastern genetic signature is paralleled in modern human populations from Tuscany, which are genetically close to Anatolian and Middle Eastern ones.
The evidence collected corroborates the hypothesis of a common past migration: both humans and cattle reached Etruria from the Eastern Mediterranean area by sea. Hence, the Eastern origin of Etruscans, first claimed by the classic historians Herodotus and Thucydides, receives strong independent support. As the Latin philosopher Seneca wrote: Asia Etruscos sibi vindicat (Asia claims the Etruscans back).
^Herodotus and other greek and latin historians even said that they were from the middle east and their recollections are merely confirmed. People in such denial truly sicken my stomach. Ignoring this much data is just so ugly. Delusional people need not apply to such discussions, it only turns such discussions into a back and fourth schizo rant.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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The Linguist from New Zealand, Dr. Graham Cambpell-Dunn argues that Etruscan is related to the Niger-Congo languages and partly presents his argument here: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/gc_dunn/Etruscans.html
I also encourage people to purchase his book Who Were the Minoans: An African Answer and The African Origins of Classical Civilizations. Oh and for the record he's "White."
Posts: 853 | From: Houston | Registered: Nov 2007
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^ does it say anything different from what we get in the book African Presence in Early Europe?
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing: ^ does it say anything different from what we get in the book African Presence in Early Europe?
admittedly I haven't read Dr. Sertima's book on Early Europe, so I don't know. I know Dr campbell-dunn's analysis is highly technical in terms of linguistic analysis. I know Van Sertima is usually not on the linguistic tip but relies heavily on archeology. But I actually have the book, just never got around to reading it. I will check it out.
Posts: 853 | From: Houston | Registered: Nov 2007
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