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Author Topic: Halie Selassie and Menelik II: We are white and proud
85500
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It may seem every time I post an article about any historical event dealing with the horn of Africa, some rastafarian troll rushes in and vomits on the thread by praising haile selassie and dragging the topic into the mud with lame historical BS that should best start with "once upon a time" as these expert trolls and straw men savoy debaters will never post credible sources to back up their imaginations.


Today, i'm here to provide sources to him/them that Halie Selassie and Menelik didn't identify themselves as black men or even Africans. But before we start, I would like to remind everyone that Halie Selassie and Menelik II were first and foremost great politicians. When Italy invaded Halie Selassie' nation in 1935, he started looking for any help he can get, including from African-Americans. Many African Americans gave up their lives to a racist bigot. At the times, many African Americans and carribian nations were searching for a great black leader to follow. When the great Marcus Gravey pointed them to Halie Selassie, it was all but certain that many young African American men would give up their lives in Ethiopia for a racist bigot like Halie Selassie.


Here is the article:
http://www.madote.com/2010/03/were-ethiopian-leaders-colonialist.html


Ethiopian leaders such as Ras Alula Engida, Yohannes IV, Menelik II, and Haile Selassie are often regarded as being staunch anti-colonial leaders by many Ethiopian writers. In this article, we'll see how this portrayal of them isn't a very accurate one as it selectively ignores much of their collaboration with colonial forces.


Yohannes IV (born Kassay Mercha)
Ruled from: 1872 - 1889


For starters, Kassay Mercha of Tigray (later to be renamed Yohannes IV) is regarded as curbing colonialism by Ethiopian historians, a simple glance at his past shows that he came to power with the help of colonial British forces himself. It was not till Yohannes collaborated with British forces to dislodge emperor Tewodros did he become emperor himself. For his cooperations with the British, he ended up receiving British weapons and training of his troops, which led to his subsequent rise to power. Someone who worked with colonial forces to defeat their own countrymen certainly can not be taking as being anti-colonial.

Tewodros's death in 1868, which, like his life, was a turning point in his country's history, left Ethiopia again divided, and without a ruler. Three rival personalities then held power in different areas. The first to gain prominence was Wagshum Gobaze, the ruler of Amhara, Wag and Lasta, who was immediately crowned Emperor Takla Giyorgis at Gondar. He was, however, soon effectively challenged by Dajzmach Kasa Mercha of Tigray. The latter was militarily more pwerful, in part on account of the gift of arms he had received from the Napier expedition, and assiatance given him by a former member of the British force, John Kirkham, who had volunteered to train his army on European lines. Gobaze set out with 60,000 men to capture Adwa, the then capital of Tigray, but Kasa, making good use of his British guns, defeated him at the battle of Assam, on 11 July 1871. He then proclaimed himself Emperor Yohannes IV, on 21 January of the following year.The third contestant for power was Menilek, heir to the throne of Shawa, who had been one of Tewodro's prisoners at Maqdala, but escaped in 1865, and proclaimed himself king of his province. Though then the weakest of the three chiefs, he for a time laid ineffective claim to the imperial throne, which he was eventually to inherit. (2001, Richard Pankhurst, p.162)


Kassa [Yohannes] for his cooperation by presenting him with six mortars, six howitzers, as well as 850 muskets, and a goodly supply of ammunition. This somewhat unexpected military windfall contributed greatly to his subsequent rise to power. (2001, Richard Pankhurst, p. 161.)


Through out most of his reign, Yohannes stayed in close contact with the British. He wrote many letters to British leaders and often regarded the British has his 'protector'.

"I have now another mother and another protector among the European kings and people: Only believe England as my country: if my country is fair in the religion and love of our Lord Jesus Christ we are one and near. I cannot believe that your Majesty shall separate me from your children." (1991, Okbazghi Yohannes, p. 41)


Ras Alula Engida
Ruled from: never ruled, just Yohannes' General


After the defeat Yohannes by the Sudanese Mahdist, Ras Alula desperately tried to solicit the Italians, confirming that they can occupy all the lands up till the Mereb River (modern Eritrea), which is still the historical and modern border between Medri-bahri/Eritrea and Tigray/Ethiopia. Although by this point, it was evident that Ras Alula had already crossed the Mereb river and retreated back into Tigray, which completely ended his brief occupation over Medri-Bahri or Mareb Mellash as the Tigrayans called it. These following two quotes made by Ras Alula shows us without a doubt, that leaders of Tigray/Abyssinia of the late 19th century, were in alliance with the Italians for their political survival and that the regions of north of the Mereb river were foreign to them.


But if he [Menilek] gives as a present what is out of his door [the Marab Mellash] the present is of no value.You want the country to the Mareb (Eritrean highlands) to cultitivate your gardens, to build your houses, to construct your churches....? We can give it to you. [And not menilek.] Let the Italian soldiers come to Adwa, I shall come to meet them like a friend. (1996, Ḥagai Erlikh, p. 164)


"And you (Italians), why do you need to look for distant friends? We are neighbors (meaning Medri Bahri and Tigray) and can serve each other. You want the road to be open and I want the road to be open. You should guard to the Mereb River and I will guard it to Gondar and even beyond Gondar. We must be able to go to the coast to trade in order that our country (meaning Tigray) would flourish, with the help of God, Menelik is too far to be of any use to you. Let us make friendship between us. (1996, Ḥagai Erlikh, 164)"


Menelik II (born Sahle Maryam)
Ruled from: 1889 - 1913


Although Menelik is regarded as fighting colonialism by Ethiopian scholars and others alike, it was Menelik himself who worked alongside with Italians colonialist, going as far as stating that he himself felt Italian and wished no greater desire then to visiting Italy. Menelik told then Italian representative to Abyssinia, Count Antonelli:

"that he loved Italy so much that he felt 'half Italian and no greater wish that to go there and see it' (1986, Chris Prouty, p. 57)

Menelik himself viewed the Italians as close allies and at times, his protectors. In a letter written to the then Italian King Umberto, Menelik begged the King of Italy to protect him from his enemies; namely Yohannes, and he reassured the Italian king that his region was theirs to share with.

"I beg Your Majesty to defend me against every one as I don't know what European kings will say about this let others know that this region is ours." (1986, Chris Prouty, p. 54)

Just like the Tigrayan leaders of Alula and Mengesha, Menelik of showa had asked the Italians to occupy Medri-Bahri (Eritrean highlands) as well, despite the fact that he had no control over that region.


"Via Antonelli's courier, Menelik informed the King of Italy that he would like the Italian soldiers to occupy Asmara, in order to discourage the imperial pretensions of Mengesha Yohannes (the son of Emperor Yohannes)." "There after," added Menelik, "God will give me the throne that for many years I have had the right to have." (1986, Chris Prouty, p.61)


Haile Selassie (born Tafari Makonnen)
Ruled from: 1930 - 1935 and 1941- 1974


Menelik himself even stated that he was a 'Caucasian'. This non-African identity was also stated by Haile Selassie.

'I am not a Negro at all; I am a Caucasian' the Emperor Menelik told the West Indian pan-Africanist Benito Sylvian who had come to Addis Ababa to solicit the Emperor's leadership in a society for the 'Amelioration of the Negro race.' Haile Sellassie confirmed that view in a declaration to Chief H. O. Davis, a well known Nigerian nationalist, stating that the Ethiopians did not regard themselves as Africans, but as 'a mixed Hamito-Semitic people (2006, John H. Spencer, p. 306)


When Halie Selassie was invaded by Mussolini's Italian forces in 1935, he had offered to sell large chunks of Ethiopia off to Italy for one and a half milliard Lira. Halie Selassie even offered to have Italian advisors to direct his policies, effectively offering to be a vessel, in return to hold on to some form of power. However, this last ditch effort to hold on to power was rejected by Mussolini.

In his desperate act to hold power, Haile Selassie now made a secret peace overture to Mussolini, sending a former Ethiopian Minister in Rome to contact the Italian consul in Djibouti. He offered to sell a large part of Ethiopia to Italy for one and half milliard Lira and to appoint six Italian advisors to direct the policy of his government. Mussolini sent sourteous reply to the intermediary, expressing his pleasure that the Negus had at last decided to negotiate directly with him; but he said the offer was unacceptable." (1997, by Jasper Godwin Ridley, p.270)


After Haile Selassie fled to London, he snubbed the black nationalist Marcus Gravey because he was black.

When Haile Selassie fled to London, Gravey tried to contact him but was snubbed, and it was reported that "the emperor did not desire any contact with 'Negroes.'" (1963, Harold Robert Isaacs, p. 153)


Unhappy with the being snubbed, the famous Marcus Gravey wrote the following quote about Halie Selassie:

Mussolini of Italy has conquered Haile Selassie of Abyssinia, but he has not conquered the Abyssinians nor Abyssinia. The Emperor of Abyssinia allowed himself to be conquered, by playing white, by trusting to white advisers and by relying white Governments, including the white League of Nations.We can remember in 1920 inviting the Government of Abyssinia to send representatives to the International Convention of the Negro Peoples of the world in common with other Negro Conventions, the Abyssinian Government returned the communication unopened. Its policy then, as during the Italo-Abyssinian war, was no doubt to rely completely on the advice and friendship of white people. They ignored Negro relationship[s] from without and throttled Negro aspirations from within. The result was that they dragged along without any racial policy, except that of the ruling classes, believing themselves white and better than the rest, with a right to suppress the darker elements which make up the tremendous population. (2009, By Girma Menelik, p.57)


Lastly, here's an Ethiopian ex-patriot explaining his struggle to defend his home from Italian occupation and his accounts of Haile selessie's last days before fleeing for England. Please fast-forward to 8:45 into the video for his eye-witness accounts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdRhknE6wEo&feature=player_embedded

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Mike111
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85500 - It is known that Selassie was not someone to take seriously. As to the Rastas; People who feel that they have no history are bound to try and make one up - the Whites in North Africa are doing the same thing.
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ausar
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I assume you are familiar with the book Son's of Sheba's race. The author of the book discussed Selassie's ethnocentrism.
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Djehuti
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[Embarrassed] When I think about it, I am not at all surprised by both the 'racial' mentality of these leaders nor their cowardice. The latter can be understood as the nature of typical power-hungry rulers, that when the going get rough for their countries and especially their powers just flee either literally or symbolically through death. As for the former problem of 'racial' identity, you do realize that Ethiopia was one of the first regions to be affected by the great European hoax known as the 'Hamitic Hypothesis' along with other Horn countries like Djibouti and Somalia and especially Egypt and northern Sudan. The prevailing notion of that time was that anyone with a narrow nose and thin lips was "caucasian" no matter how dark or black their skin was. This was why the Ba-Tutsi of Rwanda were favored by the Belgians over the Ba-Hutu, because they were deemed "caucasian" because of their facial features and were even said to be of Ethiopian origin despite all evidence showing them to share the same Bantu origins as their Hutu brothers. And look at what happened in that country! [Roll Eyes]
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beyoku
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Good Info OP, Thankfully is it sourced because i am will aware of the Eritrean propaganda machine lol.
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argyle104
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LOL at this clown Djehuti.


I'm sure everyone is thinking what in hell makes him an expert on Africans.


He ought to worry about his own wretched island seeing as the reason he left it was because black Americans have occupied it for 100 years.

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85500
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quote:
Originally posted by astenb:
Good Info OP, Thankfully is it sourced because i am will aware of the Eritrean propaganda machine lol.

I don't know what you're talking about but if you want direct links to the sources, visit the link I already provided here:

http://www.madote.com/2010/03/were-ethiopian-leaders-colonialist.html

Djehuti, The Hutu and Tutsi genocide can happen anywhere at anytime. Identity is mostly based on the psychological dimension. It's easy to manipulate identity, because identity changes very rapidly. The whole concept of ethnic identity, like nation-state is a new phenomenon. 150 years ago, there were no such things as ethnic identity. people either went by their regional names, clans, family name or by their language.

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Brada-Anansi
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Mike
quote:
85500 - It is known that Selassie was not someone to take seriously. As to the Rastas; People who feel that they have no history are bound to try and make one up - the Whites in North Africa are doing the same thing.
At least Rastas stick to the continent when searching or looking for inspiration for their history/legend/religion and not running off to Eurasia,"Persia".. etc.
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IronLion
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quote:
Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
Mike
quote:
85500 - It is known that Selassie was not someone to take seriously. As to the Rastas; People who feel that they have no history are bound to try and make one up - the Whites in North Africa are doing the same thing.
At least Rastas stick to the continent when searching or looking for inspiration for their history/legend/religion and not running off to Eurasia,"Persia".. etc.
Good obseration Brada.

And Rastas love all Africans,
unlike some people on this board who see
Eurasian-Afros [Eek!] as superior to west African Afros..

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The Explorer
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quote:
Originally posted by 85500:
The whole concept of ethnic identity, like nation-state is a new phenomenon. 150 years ago, there were no such things as ethnic identity. people either went by their regional names, clans, family name or by their language.

So, you are of the mindset that Kemet, Kush, ancient Mali, Aksum, et al. had no concept of nation-state or ethnic identity?
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IronLion
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King of Kings conquers United States:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqhWWu8BvFI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhhwF__fWMI

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IronLion
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quote:
Originally posted by 85500:
quote:
Originally posted by astenb:
Good Info OP, Thankfully is it sourced because i am will aware of the Eritrean propaganda machine lol.

I don't know what you're talking about ...blah blah blah...3/were-ethiopian-leaders-colonialist.html

Djehuti, blah blah baaaah....

Thin-legged Eriterian
these are your tin-gods:

(2006, John H. Spencer, p. 306)
(1997, by Jasper Godwin Ridley, p.270)
(1963, Harold Robert Isaacs, p. 153)
(1986, Chris Prouty, p. 57)
(1996, Ḥagai Erlikh, p. 164)
(2001, Richard Pankhurst, p.162)

Your authorities are just
a bunch of confused pink bwoys
on a mission to keep you perpetually confused.

When you know where you are coming from
You will know where you are going to...
You will also know which side you should be on
and which one you should fight....

Time will teach your thin arse
O ye thin legged Eriterian bastard! [Big Grin]

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IronLion
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:
85500 - It is known that Selassie was not someone to take seriously. As to the Rastas; People who feel that they have no history are bound to try and make one up - the Whites in North Africa are doing the same thing.

Mike111 ye conflicted arm-chair theorist...this one is for you! [Big Grin]


H.I.M. Haile Selassie OAU speech 1963 African Summit

"We welcome to Ethiopia, in Our name and in the name of the Ethiopian Government and people, the Heads of State and Government of independent African nations who are today assembled in solemn conclave in Ethiopia's capital city. This conference, without parallel in history, is an impressive testimonial to the devotion and dedication of which we all partake in the cause of our mother continent and that of her sons and daughters. This is indeed a momentous and historic day for Africa and for all Africans.

We stand today on the stage of world affairs, before the audience of world opinion. We have come together to assert our role in the direction of world affairs and to discharge our duty to the great continent whose two hundred fifty million people we lead. Africa is today at mid- course, in transition from the Africa of yesterday to the Africa of tomorrow. Even as we stand here we move from the past into the future. The task on which we have embarked, the making of Africa, will not wait. We must act, to shape and mould the future and leave our imprint on events as they pass into history.

We seek, at this meeting, to determine whither we are going and to chart the course of our destiny. It is no less important that we know whence we came. An awareness of our past is essential to the establishment of our personality and our identity as Africans. This world was not created piecemeal. Africa was born no later and no earlier than any other geographical area on this globe. Africans, no more and no less than other men, possess all human attributes, talents and deficiencies, virtues and faults. Thousands of years ago, civilizations flourished in Africa which suffer not at all by comparison with those of other continents. In those centuries, Africans were politically free and economically independent. Their social patterns were their own and their cultures truly indigenous. The obscurity which enshrouds the centuries which elapsed between those earliest days and the rediscovery of Africa are being gradually dispersed. What is certain is that during those long years Africans were born, lived and died. Men on other parts of this Earth occupied themselves with their own concerns and, in their conceit, proclaimed that the world began and ended at their horizons. All unknown to them, Africa developed in its own pattern, growing in its own life and, in the nineteenth century, finally re-emerged into the world's consciousness.

The events of the past hundred and fifty years require no extended recitation from Us. The period of colonialism into which we were plunged culminated with our continent fettered and bound, with our once proud and free peoples reduced to humiliation and slavery; with Africa's terrain cross-batched and checkerboarded by artificial and arbitrary boundaries. Many of us, during those bitter years, were overwhelmed in battle, and those who escaped conquest did so at the cost of desperate resistance and bloodshed. Others were sold into bondage as the price extracted by the colonialists for the "protection" which they extended and the possession of which they disposed. Africa was a physical resource to be exploited and Africans were chattels to be purchased bodily or, at best, peoples to be reduced to vassalage and lackeyhood. Africa was the market for the produce of other nations and the source of the raw materials with which their factories were fed.

Today, Africa has emerged from this dark passage. Our armageddon is past. Africa has been reborn as a free continent and Africans have been reborn as free men. The blood that was shed and the sufferings that were endured are today Africa's advocates for freedom and unity. Those men who refused to accept the judgement passed upon them by the colonies, who held unswervingly through the darkest hours to a vision of an Africa emancipated from political, economic and spiritual domination, will be remembered and revered wherever Africans meet. Many of them never set foot on this continent. Others were born and died here. What we may utter today can add little to the heroic struggle of those who, by their example, have shown us how precious are freedom and human dignity and of how little value is life without them. Their deeds are written in history."

H.I.M. Emperor Haile Selassie I

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IronLion
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quote:
Originally posted by ausar:
I assume you are familiar with the book Son's of Sheba's race. The author of the book discussed Selassie's ethnocentrism.

Ausar ye sneaky mulatto Egyptian, [Big Grin] this is for you too (Universal Haile Selassie):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UH7LNI_9nVY&feature=player_embedded

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IronLion
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quote:
Originally posted by The Explorer:
quote:
Originally posted by 85500:
The whole concept of ethnic identity, like nation-state is a new phenomenon. 150 years ago, there were no such things as ethnic identity. people either went by their regional names, clans, family name or by their language.

So, you are of the mindset that Kemet, Kush, ancient Mali, Aksum, et al. had no concept of nation-state or ethnic identity?
Tha bwoy ah jus one flim-flam Arab bwoy, wannabe Hamitic that comes to divide and conquer!

Fire fi the wicked! [Mad]

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85500
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quote:
Originally posted by The Explorer:
quote:
Originally posted by 85500:
The whole concept of ethnic identity, like nation-state is a new phenomenon. 150 years ago, there were no such things as ethnic identity. people either went by their regional names, clans, family name or by their language.

So, you are of the mindset that Kemet, Kush, ancient Mali, Aksum, et al. had no concept of nation-state or ethnic identity?
Nation-state with fixed borders is a modern European invention. Ethnic identity is a 20th century western concept that has its origins in the United States.

It was not till 1945 that the word ethnicity specifically started representing "a member of a particular ethnic group". So it would be very hard for the ancient Africans to identify with our modern concept of identity.

Btw, i'm not under the impression that the ancient Kemets, Kush, ancient Mali, and certainly the Aksumites were a homogeneous people. Hypothetically speaking, even if they were homogeneous people, it still does not mean they will identify with being the same. Ethnic identity really boils down to the individual groups/family/person. The thing that's odd about ethnic identity is it really does feel like its been around since the dawn of man but it really hasn't.

Here's a link showcasing the history of the western concept of ethnic identity.

http://www.madote.com/2010/02/biher-tigrinya-and-tigray-people-war-of.html

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IronLion
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quote:
Originally posted by 85500:
quote:
Originally posted by The Explorer:
quote:
Originally posted by 85500:
The whole concept of ethnic identity, like nation-state is a new phenomenon. 150 years ago, there were no such things as ethnic identity. people either went by their regional names, clans, family name or by their language.

So, you are of the mindset that Kemet, Kush, ancient Mali, Aksum, et al. had no concept of nation-state or ethnic identity?
Nation-state with fixed borders is a modern European invention. ...
Error number one, fixed borders were known to ancient civilization such as Kemit, Kush, etc. Ancient Kemit had fixed borders marked by the cataracts of the Nile....

quote:
Here's a link showcasing the history of the western concept of ethnic identity.

http://www.madote.com/2010/02/biher-tigrinya-and-tigray-people-war-of.html

You are still at a very rudimentary stage when
you have not discovered the real value of western
scholarship and episteme...

Anyway, you will grow up after your first summer job ...

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The Explorer
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quote:
Originally posted by 85500:

Nation-state with fixed borders is a modern European invention.

Did Kemet, Aksum, Kush, ancient Ghana et al. have borders? Did they have national sovereignty? Did Kemetians call just about anybody "Kmtyw"?
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Brada-Anansi
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I am not going to minimized the suffering caused by the conflict between Ethiopia and Eriteria and even how it got started..one friend of mine an Ethiopian suggested that they are still pissed at being un-necessarly abondoned by Menelik to the Italians. So be it from me to tell them to get over it...I don't live there. But using Western media at the time to show that both Selassie and Menelik proclaimed themselves white and proud need to be taken with a whole sh!t-load of salt...after-all there is an youtube documentary made in as late 1960...something that made the bold claim that the Ethiopians are
Aryans LoL not even Semities in the sterotypical sense..or the good ol Hamites. time permitting I will track it down and post it.

Lion mi bradda !!no name calling man let dem air out dem opinions betta to let it be said than un-said, you just bring u knowladge man..respect.

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anguishofbeing
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Another bait thread, this time it seems from a certain thin-legged Eritrean. lol
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The Explorer
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The bit about Menelik II or Haile Selassie buying into the Hamitic myth doesn't seem all that far-fetched to me, to be frank.

Ps: If for no other reason, independent from that of any European influence, then simply turn to the Kebra Negast, and you'll see why. That said, the Ethiopian state under Haile Selassie did lobby with great effort to get consensus vote on having the OAU headquarters in Addis Ababa.

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Mike111
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Lion - Care not what a man says, but look to what he does.
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Mike111
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Brada, Lion; I am not an expert on Ethiopian, so my comments are of a passing nature. But to me, the obvious is so telling that the conclusions are natural.

Ethiopia is the worlds oldest country, still ruled by the original people (in loose context). Yet like every other African state, it is a mess - the facts speak for themselves.

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Brada-Anansi
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Mike
quote:
Lion - Care not what a man says, but look to what he does.
Well Mike look at what he tried to do..and remember as humans we are often complex and contradictory even at the best of times..so find out what he accomplished in his career then.

Explorer
quote:
The bit about Menelik II or Haile Selassie buying into the Hamitic myth doesn't seem all that far-fetched to me, to be frank.
Why yes because many in the west also bought into the same myth both Blacks and non Blacks just by the bible alone without ones family being of importance in it the Ark story??.. and remember the Ham stories very negative at the time..
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argyle104
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IronLion
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:
Lion - Care not what a man says, but look to what he does.

What did he do Mike? And what did he not do?

The man literally freed Africa from Colonialism. Literally single-handedly freed Africa, installed African Unity and Nationalism, inspired Global Black Liberation Activists from J.A. Rogers, to Nkrumah, Azikiwe, Kenyatta, Martin Luther KingJr., Nelson Mandela,..name whoever...they all were inspired, materially aided, and spiritually supported by His Imperial Majesty.

Now Mike, what did the man not do right?

Lion!

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IronLion
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quote:
Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
Mike
quote:
[b.

Explorer
[QUOTE] The bit about Menelik II or Haile Selassie buying into the Hamitic myth doesn't seem all that far-fetched to me, to be frank.

Why yes because many in the west also bought into the same myth both Blacks and non Blacks just by the bible alone without ones family being of importance in it the Ark story??.. and remember the Ham stories very negative at the time..
Nothing wrong in claiming Hamitic proved you know what you are talking about.

In Ethiopia, Ham is considered the father of Cush, who is the father of Ethyops who fathered the ancient Ethiopians..

If based on this folklore a tribe in Ethiopia claims Hamitic descent, how are they wrong???

Finally, can someone post me one line from Selassie wherein he claimed to be Hamitic?

Lion!

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Yonis2
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quote:
Originally posted by IronLion:
quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:
Lion - Care not what a man says, but look to what he does.

What did he do Mike? And what did he not do?

The man literally freed Africa from Colonialism. Literally single-handedly freed Africa, installed African Unity and Nationalism, inspired Global Black Liberation Activists from J.A. Rogers, to Nkrumah, Azikiwe, Kenyatta, Martin Luther KingJr., Nelson Mandela,..name whoever...they all were inspired, materially aided, and spiritually supported by His Imperial Majesty.

Now Mike, what did the man not do right?

Lion!

I've told you before to lay down that crack pipe!
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IronLion
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quote:
Originally posted by Yonis2:
quote:
Originally posted by IronLion:
quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:
Lion - Care not what a man says, but look to what he does.

What did he do Mike? And what did he not do?

The man literally freed Africa from Colonialism. Literally single-handedly freed Africa, installed African Unity and Nationalism, inspired Global Black Liberation Activists from J.A. Rogers, to Nkrumah, Azikiwe, Kenyatta, Martin Luther KingJr., Nelson Mandela,..name whoever...they all were inspired, materially aided, and spiritually supported by His Imperial Majesty.

Now Mike, what did the man not do right?

Lion!

I've told you before to lay down that crack pipe!
Somalia excluded... [Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin]
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IronLion
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Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:48 AM ET

By Paul Simao

JOHANNESBURG (Reuters) - Buried beneath a thick layer of dirt on a former farm in a northern Johannesburg suburb is the most famous gun in South African history. Or so a team of historians believe.

For the past week, a bulldozer has been digging on the Liliesleaf farm in Rivonia in search of the Bulgarian pistol that former South African President Nelson Mandela hid weeks before his 1962 arrest by the nation's white rulers.

The effort to find the gun -- which was largely forgotten through the darkest days of apartheid, the fall of white rule and establishment of democracy -- has taken on a life of its own and stoked the interest of many, including Mandela.

"He has said, 'I hope you find it,'" said Nicholas Wolpe, the son of Harold Wolpe, an anti-apartheid activist who helped buy the property in 1961 for use as a secret meeting place for Communists and African National Congress members.

The gun, a semi-automatic Makarov that was never fired, was given to Mandela by an Ethiopian colonel in 1962 when the ANC leader traveled secretly out of white-ruled South Africa for military training.....(THIS WAS HALIE SELASSIE'S ETHIOPIA...)

http://nazret.com/blog/index.php?title=search_for_mandela_s_gun_shines_light_on&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

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IronLion
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:
Brada, Lion; I am not an expert on Ethiopian, so my comments are of a passing nature. But to me, the obvious is so telling that the conclusions are natural.

Ethiopia is the worlds oldest country, still ruled by the original people (in loose context). Yet like every other African state, it is a mess - the facts speak for themselves.

Mike HIM was born in 1884 or thereabout. At his birth the mother-land was already exhausted. Africa north south and east west was in subjugation. He was not responsible for it, he tried to rebuild the walls of the great house. He was the god-father of African liberation movements, the continent wide. Haile Selassie's Ethiopia was the training ground for the African liberation Army fighting the colonialists...

Addis Ababa is the capital of today's Africa. The black lion still rules from there.

I have been there, I know...

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The Explorer
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quote:
Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:

Explorer
quote:
The bit about Menelik II or Haile Selassie buying into the Hamitic myth doesn't seem all that far-fetched to me, to be frank.
Why yes because many in the west also bought into the same myth both Blacks and non Blacks just by the bible alone without ones family being of importance in it the Ark story??.. and remember the Ham stories very negative at the time..
Well, you see, Menelik and Haile Selassie belonged to a line of rulers who legitimized their rule over much of Ethiopia by tracing their lineage to King Solomon. This allowed these figures to lay claim to uninterrupted royal line from times of the Aksumite kingdom. This legend was therefore a central piece of their rule. Add to this that more than likely, from an international perspective, by around the time of these two rulers, they must have been aware of "western" perceptions of biblical figures like King Solomon and "western" anthropological constructs vis-a-vis the "Hamitic hypothesis", and it is from that context, they will have veered from identifying themselves as "blacks". This is how the logic goes: If you are a descendant of King Solomon, and King Solomon in turn was not regarded as "black" in the "west", then you as a descendant staying true to the Solomonic line of descent, will tell someone from the so-called "west" that you are not "black" either. The Hamitic hypothesis would have only reinforced this perception further. It would appear that these elements somehow diffused to the general Ethiopian public and had helped shaped viewpoints therein around their 'Africanity' and 'blackness', which is one of denial of either or both. For the Ethiopian ruling elite, the issue went beyond color-ethnic identity politics, but being mindful of events surrounding color-ethnic identity politics in the "west" and being pressed to speak on those terms, they felt compelled to make their stance accordingly.
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Yonis2
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quote:
Originally posted by IronLion:
quote:
Originally posted by Yonis2:
quote:
Originally posted by IronLion:
quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:
Lion - Care not what a man says, but look to what he does.

What did he do Mike? And what did he not do?

The man literally freed Africa from Colonialism. Literally single-handedly freed Africa, installed African Unity and Nationalism, inspired Global Black Liberation Activists from J.A. Rogers, to Nkrumah, Azikiwe, Kenyatta, Martin Luther KingJr., Nelson Mandela,..name whoever...they all were inspired, materially aided, and spiritually supported by His Imperial Majesty.

Now Mike, what did the man not do right?

Lion!

I've told you before to lay down that crack pipe!
Somalia excluded... [Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin]
For sure!

Haile sellasie objected when somalia got it's independance, just like menelik he suggested that somalia should be incorporated into ethiopia, and that the land has always belonged to and ruled by ethiopians, ofcourse a big lie. The man basically wanted somalis to be re-colonized, he's an "african freedom fighter", right?
He is also quoted as saying " Somalis are not black nor arabs but a race of bastards", as if his oromo ass was much different, lol.

Btw you are from west african(?)if i'm right, how the hell can you praise a man who openly said about marcus garvey " i don't talk to negroes", where is your pride Fool?

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IronLion
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quote:
Originally posted by Yonis2:
quote:
Originally posted by IronLion:
quote:
Originally posted by Yonis2:
quote:
Originally posted by IronLion:
quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:
Lion - Care not what a man says, but look to what he does.

What did he do Mike? And what did he not do?

The man literally freed Africa from Colonialism. Literally single-handedly freed Africa, installed African Unity and Nationalism, inspired Global Black Liberation Activists from J.A. Rogers, to Nkrumah, Azikiwe, Kenyatta, Martin Luther KingJr., Nelson Mandela,..name whoever...they all were inspired, materially aided, and spiritually supported by His Imperial Majesty.

Now Mike, what did the man not do right?

Lion!

I've told you before to lay down that crack pipe!
Somalia excluded... [Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin]
For sure!

Haile sellasie objected when somalia got it's independance, just like menelik he suggested that somalia should be incorporated into ethiopia, and that the land has always belonged to and ruled by ethiopians, ofcourse a big lie.


He is also quoted as saying " Somalis are not black nor arabs but a race of bastards", as if his oromo ass was much different, lol.

Btw you are from west african(?)if i'm right, how the hell can you praise a man who openly said about marcus garvey " i don't talk to negroes", where is your pride Fool?

But Somalis are global bastards [Big Grin] Just look at you Yonis, if you are Somali as you claim, you do fit that very description. Just look at modern day Smaali and weep! Selassie I was right as always!

I am that I am...Rastafari. Black International. West, South, East and North.

Haile Selassie, Marcus Garvey and Emmanuel are the three lights of the Black race. Don't fool with this Smaaali, don't toy with us...

Marcus Garvey went before the league of Nation several times to complain about racism and white supremacy in USA. How was he able to do that? Did he own a state? Do you think he went there on America's invitation? Did you know that Garvey was also an Honorary Citizen of Ethiopia granted by Haile Selassie?

Name one great African liberation figure who is not indebted to Haile Selassie. That is my challenge to the ungrateful Eriteruan and Samaali Woyanis?

I suppose you would rather the Italians to continue raping your mothers and your sisters than live under a free Ethiopian flag.

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-Just Call Me Jari-
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I don't know why Great African Empires are so smitten and awe struck at European people..??
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argyle104
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Jari-Ankhamun wrote:
------------------------------------
I don't know why Great African Empires are so smitten and awe struck at European people..??
------------------------------------


What do you base this on other than your mindless opinion?

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AswaniAswad
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I cant believe U Even believe this **** and U 855ZERO u are just as funny as all that bullshit u wrote up top and u call those sources ahahhahahhahahha ya hayawan.

No European is to be taken serious when speaking about ERitrea or Ethiopia or Egypt or Africa.

All of those Fake sources u put up are funny u even think that Selassie and Menelik think they are White Hahahhahahahahahah u think im suppose to believe u by the way 85550000 how old are u u seem like a young eritrean kid filled with the propoganda of his parents.

Do us a Favor Keep your Eritrean Ethiopian Tigray Asmara **** out of here this is not education this is propoganda political fake country ****

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beyoku
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quote:
Originally posted by AswaniAswad:
I cant believe U Even believe this **** and U 855ZERO u are just as funny as all that bullshit u wrote up top and u call those sources ahahhahahhahahha ya hayawan.

No European is to be taken serious when speaking about ERitrea or Ethiopia or Egypt or Africa.

All of those Fake sources u put up are funny u even think that Selassie and Menelik think they are White Hahahhahahahahahah u think im suppose to believe u by the way 85550000 how old are u u seem like a young eritrean kid filled with the propoganda of his parents.

Do us a Favor Keep your Eritrean Ethiopian Tigray Asmara **** out of here this is not education this is propoganda political fake country ****

The Eritrean propaganda machine is VERY STRONG. I thought you know how they rolled. 85500 dont think I am hating I am just saying...
Live Eri-TV

I bet you cant go 5 minutes before seeing a cute female freedom fighter with an Afro, khaki shorts, and Kalashnikov or those big ass sandals.

I got a lot of respect for Eritreans though. it was Eritreans and Sudanese the put me on to Africana in the first place.

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Yonis2
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Lol at the congregation of Ethiopian boot lickers.

Btw, Lion and the rest of fools, go and look up the Amharic word "Baria/barya", i hope you'll still see the great love amharas have for you. [Big Grin]

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osirion
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Are you all aware that Hitler was fond of the Ethiopians and even helped them in their war against Italy?
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Yonis2
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Bullshit!

Mussolini was one of the few allies Nazi germany had along with imperial japan, they never jeoperdized their relationship with these two entities, in particular by aiding a delusional weak nation with no modern military industry to speak of.

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Brada-Anansi
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Osirion
quote:
Are you all aware that Hitler was fond of the Ethiopians and even helped them in their war against Italy?
Osirion???...sometimes you say the oddest sh!t...Krriest!!..at least show some source..Yonis who have very little love for the Habasha..wouldn't go there..damnm man!!.. [Roll Eyes]
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KING
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Yeah As I read what Osirion said, it made me see that ignorance is bliss.

Why even make a post about that? Just because someone does not like HIM does not mean you should try and group them with vile disgusting people like the nazis.

Brada let me ask you if this is true. I hear that Rastas are divided into 4 clans. The Bobo Shanti, 12 Tribes, Nyahbinghi, and I forget the last. Now I hear the 12 tribes don't look at Selassie as God but continue to believe in Jesus's 2nd coming. Now is this true, or am I offbase.

Brada, IronLion if you can chime in hear please.

Peace

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85500
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It's well known Hitler assisted Ethiopia during Ethiopia's war with Italy in 1935. But this wasn't because Hitler was 'fond' of Ethiopia, it was purely political and in some cases, financial.

"The Italo-Ethiopian war made possible the Italy-German rapprochement because Hitler did not apply sanctions against Italy and made it available to Italy certain boycotted products, such as coal, allowing Mussolini to challenge the international community and with the war.However, in spite of the fact that Germany had adopted a neutral policy, Hitler secretly authorized a 3 billion mark credit to Ethiopia to buy arms.."

SOURCE http://tinyurl.com/ygu2nfg


"Germany became aware that its re-armament was worrying the European continent, and that it would become a target. When Pierre Laval signed the treaty with Italy, Germany became increasingly aware of the resistance presented by many European powers. In an internal document, a German representative in Ethiopia discussed with Emperor Haile Selassie the supply of modern arms and material for chemical warfare. If the Germans’ offer of arms was favorable, Ethiopia was to send a representative to Berlin to discuss the situation.10 Germany later said internally that it and Ethiopia had the same interests, and that a conflict with Italy over the Austrian question would be inevitable.11 Germany was aware that Mussolini, along with Britain and France, did not favor his involvement with Austria. Hitler felt that the only way to be able to take over Austria was to arm the Ethiopians as much as possible so that they would offer the greatest resistance toward the Italians. With the Italians distracted, Hitler would go into Austria. Hitler kept this plan secret, because he was aware of the complicated European political situation.12
German firms saw an interest in Ethiopia like the Italians did, but not for the same reasons. Companies such as Rheinmetall and Krupp Steel were aware that Ethiopia desperately needed supplies, and they could provide them.13 They helped supply the weapons to Ethiopia that were agreed to by Selassie and Hitler. The fact that Ethiopia was on the verge of entering war meant that they need to buy as many supplies as possible to prepare. German firms were prepared to offer Ethiopians what they needed in order to profit. Italy also saw an economic interest in Ethiopia because Mussolini was aware that Ethiopia had a large amount of natural resources, and Italy could improve its struggling economy. With an already struggling economy, Italy was desperate to look for solutions for this problem, and Ethiopia became a possible solution.

Emperor Haile Selassie would of course try and take the offer made by the Germans, and Ethiopia would receive some weapons from German firms.14 Emperor Selassie knew that Italy was a large military power, and it needed to arm immediately. Both Germany and Ethiopia felt they would win through this arms deal. With Mussolini sending troops into British Somaliland to prepare for the imminent invasion, Ethiopia had to speed up the process of the deal.15 Germany began to play a large role in the imminent war by causing panic in Europe while making deals with Ethiopia to stop Italy from conquest.
When the main invasion began in October of 1935, German officials discussed the situation. Communications showed that Germany wished to remain a “non-participant,” and with Italy diverted away from Europe and the League of Nations weakened, Germany focused on the Austrian question.16 It watched the Italian conflict, but Emperor Haile Selassie was aware that he was outnumbered, and Germany felt that Italy would likely succeed. Germany now knew that this was the time to take advantage of the European political situation, and it hoped that the Italo-Abyssinian conflict would continue for a long period of time so that it could begin its expansion plans.
"

SOURCE: http://tinyurl.com/ylcdh9u


I'll respond to the other stuff when I have more time. Peace for now and let your sources do the talking.

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Swenet
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Very interesting
Several points go against everything I held to be true about Halie Selassie. Will get to the bottom of this one of these days. This is exactly why I am all for having diverse people in the environment that have different thought patterns on whatever we hold to be true. We'll see in the near future how much truth there is to this and whether there is more.

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Brada-Anansi
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King
quote:
Brada let me ask you if this is true. I hear that Rastas are divided into 4 clans. The Bobo Shanti, 12 Tribes, Nyahbinghi, and I forget the last. Now I hear the 12 tribes don't look at Selassie as God but continue to believe in Jesus's 2nd coming. Now is this true, or am I offbase.
well Full Filled Rasta they believed in Jesus Christ.. they are basically Ethiopian Orthodox like.. and a local African group in Angola called Remi very new don't know much about them.

But you have to remember that despite the names "clans" there are no strict boundaries or dogmas as they are not too keen on any form of organized religion all used the Bible.

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Brada-Anansi
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85500 thanks for the link..however that does not mean even if true an arms deal when down in secret do not make them allies after-all the Nazi were tight with the Russians until operation Barbarossa..and American companies did business with the Nazi deep into the war.
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IronLion
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The Organization of African Unity now known as the African Union was established by Haile Selassie in 1963 in Addis Ababa! HIM was the first chairperson of that eminent body.

The OAU is the nearest Africa has come to fulfilling the dreams of Marcus Garvey with his United Negro Improvement Association.

The OAU was responsible for the complete political decolonization of Africa, economic development and social integration.

Today only Morocco and Eriteria are against the AU/OAU in Africa. Eriterians prefer to deal with Italians, many of them have Italian heritage from days of conquest and Italian settlement in Asmara...Many other Eriterians are Turkish descendants, just like their neighbourhood pals the wild Somalis.

For this reason, they have always been against African Unity. Like their European ancestors, the fail to understand that Africa was the first state-builder, and that Africans have an essential unity as evidenced by cultural similarities, religious concept and social organizations.

The Italian Eriterians cite European sources to counter-argue the promulgations of the OAU, the AU and even the world court. They reject all peace settlement of modern African borders. they have minimal representation at the AU.

Eriterians focus on Italy, then the Arabian pennisula, the two regions where many of them immigrated from. In Eriteria, Italian is a lingua franca.

Modern Asmara is basically Africa's little Italy, whereas in the days when real negros lived therein, it was Africa's headquarters.

Eriterians are all about Yemen and Saudi Arabia, and their funding comes from radical Islamic militant groups. They are also very chubby with Italian facist politicians like Berlusconni. This is why they all hate Ethiopia, because Ethiopia resisted and defeated the Italians.

US considers Eriteria as a terrorist outpost and Barack Obama has not even acknowledged its existence.

Today, Eriterians are the only Africans unknown to other Africans. It is a cult state, ruled by a half-crazy, half-breed Italian mecenary known as Afwerki.

So much for African unity and the Eriterians.

See the Charter of the OAU

See the Charter of the AU

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IronLion
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quote:
Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
King
quote:
Brada let me ask you if this is true. I hear that Rastas are divided into 4 clans. The Bobo Shanti, 12 Tribes, Nyahbinghi, and I forget the last. Now I hear the 12 tribes don't look at Selassie as God but continue to believe in Jesus's 2nd coming. Now is this true, or am I offbase.
well Full Filled Rasta they believed in Jesus Christ.. they are basically Ethiopian Orthodox like.. and a local African group in Angola called Remi very new don't know much about them.

But you have to remember that despite the names "clans" there are no strict boundaries or dogmas as they are not too keen on any form of organized religion all used the Bible.

And there are the mystic Rastas who belong to no house at all but Jah.
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-Just Call Me Jari-
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quote:
Originally posted by KING:
Yeah As I read what Osirion said, it made me see that ignorance is bliss.

Why even make a post about that? Just because someone does not like HIM does not mean you should try and group them with vile disgusting people like the nazis.

Brada let me ask you if this is true. I hear that Rastas are divided into 4 clans. The Bobo Shanti, 12 Tribes, Nyahbinghi, and I forget the last. Now I hear the 12 tribes don't look at Selassie as God but continue to believe in Jesus's 2nd coming. Now is this true, or am I offbase.

Brada, IronLion if you can chime in hear please.

Peace

There are many different "Rasta" groups. Some(MOST) are more peaceful Pro African folks who believe in Race Unity and that the Ethiopians are the true Jews, they believe The Garden of eden was in Ethiopia(Some evidence exists for this). Some believe that Israel was in Ethiopia instead of Canaan, though Im not sure if many hold on to this idea, I would ask Iron Lion.

Then there are Millitant Rastas who believe White people are the Epitomy of Satan. Im not sure what they hold for End Times but I think it revoves around Babyon(Western Civilization) being destoyed by a Black Messiah(Maybe Hallie Sallasse becuase they(some??) say Halle is Jesus). Then again I could be wrong but I have battled some of these Millitant Rastas from time to time.(They say that the Bible is Astrological with no proof then use the bible to condemn whites, or they espouse the debunked and false doctine that Jesus is Horus and Christianity is based off of Egyptian myths..) Though most Millitant Rastas tend to keep to themselves unlike Black Hebrews.

Im not sure how the 12 tribes works with Rastas but the black Hebrews have a 12 tribe doctrine, and like the Rastas you have Peaceful black Hebrews who accept all races and Millitant ones that preach death to the "Gentiles" esp. so called Edomites.

Most Rastas are cool, lol and some have me cracking up on youtube esp. when they talk about the Pope...LOOOL...MAN.

Other than worshipping Halle Sallsie(Im not sure I worshipping him is even true, it might be a rumor. they might just regard him as a prophet??), I mean he was a great African leader and all, I see no problem with Rastas.

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