posted
I'm not talking about black people who may have been in Europe or Greece before Caucasians. I'm talking about whenever the first Caucasians came into being these regions.
Please put into order the following list so that earliest Caucasian presence in each areas is listed first and then later and progressively in historical to the last.
random order:
1. Turkey 2. Persia 3. Africa 4. Greece 5. Caucasus, Russia + Eastern Europe 6. Western Europe 7. Spain 8. Italy 9. Nordic countries 10.Middle East
feel free to customize the region names, add or subtract
It seems like the origin of the term "Caucasian" is a little dubious. ________________________________
The concept of a Caucasian race or Varietas Caucasia was developed around 1800 by Johann Friedrich Blumenbach, a German scientist and early anthropologist. Blumenbach named it after the peoples of the Caucasus (from the Caucasus region), whom he considered to be the archetype for the grouping.He based his classification of the Caucasian race primarily on craniology. Blumenbach wrote:
"Caucasian variety—I have taken the name of this variety from Mount Caucasus, both because its neighborhood, and especially its southern slope, produces the most beautiful race of men, I mean the Georgian; and because all physiological reasons converge to this, that in that region, if anywhere, it seems we ought with the greatest probability to place the autochthones (birth place) of mankind."
____________________________
The above originator of the term "Caucasian" does not seem to have good reasoning as per origins. That's why I'm posting this question. But we can still use the term as referring to a certain common physical type or "Caucasoid" because it is now an accepted term even though it may be questioned if this type originates in the Caucus mountains.
What is the directional line of migration from starting point to all these other areas?
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posted
LOL, LOL, LOL, the first Caucasian was Adam. I mean what else.
Seriously speaking though--before the question could be answered one has to define "Caucasian"--and that itself is problematic. And there's the question of approach: do you go with just cranial criteria or do you go fully osteopathic(i.e. using total body measurements, etc.)?
Yet--as they say with porn--when I see a white I know what I am looking at....
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posted
The origin of whites lie in the Caves of the Caucasus mountains. This is why Europeans in the Quran are called the People of the Cave.
It was from here that whites came from the bowels of the earth after the tectonic events of 2000 BC. By 1300BC, the Caucasians, led by the Hittites began to advance from Anatolia into Europe and the Middle East.
Between 1500-500 BC, Caucasians began to exterminate Blacks in Europe, North Africa, India and much of the Middle East and replace them.
The Egyptians called these people the People of the Sea.
In conclusion the original home of the Caucasians was the caves of the Caucasus mountains. They were let out of the caves by tectonic events that weakend Black civilizations after 1500BC to such an extent as to make the Black civilizations in Europe and elsewhere, open for invasion and genocide.
-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
Caucasians definitely didn't originate in the Middle East
Kushites of Sumer and Akkad
King Gudea of Sumer
Controversy surrounding the Kushite/African/Black origins of the Elamites, Sumerians, Akkadians and “Assyrians” is simple and yet complicated. It involves both the racism exhibited toward the African slaves in the Western Hemisphere and Africans generally which led to the idea that Africans had no history ; and the need of Julius Oppert to make Semites white, to accommodate the “white” ancestry of European Jews.
To understand this dichotomy we have to look at the history of scholarship surrounding the rise of Sumero-Akkadian studies. The study of the Sumerians, Akkadians. Assyrians and Elamites began with the decipherment of the cuneiform script by Henry Rawlinson. Henry Rawlinson had spent most of his career in the Orient. This appears to have gave him an open mind in regards to history. He recognized the Ancient Model of History, the idea that civilization was founded by the Kushite or Hamitic people of the Bible.
As result, Rawlinson was surprised during his research to discover that the founders of the Mesopotamian civilization were of Kushite origin. He made it clear that the Semitic speakers of Akkad and the non-Semitic speakers of Sumer were both Black or Negro people who called themselves sag-gig-ga “Black Heads”. In Rawlinson’s day the Sumerian people were recognized as Akkadian or Chaldean, while the Semitic speaking blacks were called Assyrians.
Rawlinson identified these Akkadians as Turanian or Scythic people. But he made it clear that these ancient Scythic or Turanian speaking people were Kushites or Blacks.
A major supporter of Rawlinson was Edward Hincks. Hincks continued Rawlinson’s work and identified the ancient group as Chaldeans, and also called them Turanian speakers. Hincks, though, never dicussed their ethnic origin.
Akkadian
A late comer to the study of the Sumerians and the Akkadians was Julius Oppert. Oppert was a German born of Jewish parents. He made it clear that the Chaldean and Akkadian people spoke different languages. He noted that the original founders of Mesopotamia civilization called themselves Ki-en-gi “land of the true lords”. It was the Semitic speakers who called themselves Akkadians.
Assyrians called the Ki-en-gi people Sumiritu “the sacred language”. Oppert popularized the Assyrian name Sumer, for the original founders of the civilization. Thus we have today the Akkadians and Sumerians of ancient Mesopotamia.
Oppert began to popularize the idea that the Sumerians were related to the contemporary Altaic and Turanian speaking people, e.g., Turks and Magyar (Hungarian) speaking people. He made it clear that the Akkadians were Semites like himself . To support this idea Oppert pointed out that typological features between Sumerian and Altaic languages existed. This feature was agglutination.
The problem with identifying the Sumerians as descendants from contemporary Turanian speakers resulted from the fact that Sumerian and the Turkish languages are not genetically related. As a result Oppert began to criticize the work of Hincks (who was dead at the time) in relation to the identification of the Sumerian people as Turanian following the research of Rawlinson.
Oppert knew Rawlinson had used African languages to decipher cuneiform writing. But he did not compare the Sumerian to African languages, probably, due to the fact that he knew they were related given Rawlinson's earlier research.
It is strange to some observers that Oppert,never criticized Rawlinson who had proposed the Turanian origin of the Ki-en-gi (Sumerians). But this was not strange at all. Oppert did not attack Rawlinson who was still alive at the time because he knew that Rawlinson said the Sumerians were the original Scythic and Turanian people he called Kushites. Moreover, Rawlinson made it clear that both the Akkadians and Sumerians were Blacks. For Oppert to have debated this issue with Rawlinson, who deciphered the cuneiform script, would have meant that he would have had to accept the fact that Semites were Black. There was no way Oppert would have wanted to acknowledge his African heritage, given the Anti-Semitism experienced by Jews living in Europe.
Although Oppert successfully hid the recognition that the Akkadians and the Sumerians both refered to themselves as sag-gig-ga “black heads”, some researchers were unable to follow the status quo and ignore this reality. For example, Francois Lenormant, made it clear, following the research of Rawlinson, that the Elamite and Sumerians spoke genetically related languages. This idea was hard to reconcile with the depiction of people on the monuments of Iran, especially the Behistun monument, which depicted Negroes (with curly hair and beards) representing the Assyrians, Jews and Elamites who ruled the area. As a result, Oppert began the myth that the Sumerian languages was isolated from other languages spoken in the world evethough it shared typological features with the Altaic languages. Oppert taught Akkadian-Sumerian in many of the leading Universities in France and Germany. Many of his students soon began to dominate the Academe, or held chairs in Sumerian and Akkadian studies these researchers continued to perpetuate the myth that the Elamite and Sumerian languages were not related.
There was no way to keep from researchers who read the original Sumerian, Akkadian and Assyrian text that these people recognized that they were ethnically Blacks. This fact was made clear by Albert Terrien de LaCouperie. Born in France, de LaCouperie was a well known linguist and China expert. Although native of France most of his writings are in English. In the journal he published called the Babylonian and Oriental Record, he outlined many aspects of ancient history. In these pages he made it clear that the Sumerians, Akkadians and even the Assyrians who called themselves şalmat kakkadi ‘black headed people”, were all Blacks of Kushite origin. Eventhough de LaCouperie taught at the University of London, the prestige of Oppert, and the fact that the main centers for Sumero-Akkadian studies in France and Germany were founded by Oppert and or his students led to researchers ignoring the evidence that the Sumerians , Akkadians and Assyrians were Black.
In summary, the cuneiform evidence makes it clear that the Sumerians, Akkadians and Assyrians recognized themselves as Negroes: “black heads”. This fact was supported by the statues of Gudea, the Akkadians and Assyrians. Plus the Behistun monument made it clear that the Elamites were also Blacks.
The textual evidence also makes it clear that Oppert began the discussion of a typological relationship between Sumerian and Turkic languages. He also manufactured the idea that the Semites of Mesopotamia and Iran, the Assyrians and Akkadians were “whites”, like himself. Due to this brain washing, and whitening out of Blacks in history, many people today can look at depictions of Assyrians, Achamenians, and Akkadians and fail to see the Negro origin of these people.
Gutian on the left/Sumerian on the right
To make the Sumerians “white” textbooks print pictures of artifacts dating to the Gutian rule of Lagash, to pass them off as the true originators of Sumerian civilization. No Gutian rulers of Lagash are recognized in the Sumerian King List.
posted
The West Caucasus may be called the caver’s paradise. In the region there are 4 caves deeper than 1.5 kilometres. These caves are Krubera-Voronya cave (-2191 m), the cave system of Ilyuziya-Mezhonogo-Snezhnaya (-1753 m), the cave Sarma (-1543 m) and the cave of V. Pantyukhin (-1508 m). All these caves are within the top ten deepest caves in the world.
It was in these caves that the Caucasians originated.
The first Europeans were definitely Black when they entered the Caucasus Caves.
In the caves due to the absence of sunlight the Aurignacians lost the melanin in their skin. The melanin left the skin and congregated in the hair. This is evident when we look at the depigmented creatures who live in the caves.
.
As you can see living in caves can cause the lost of melanin in the skin.
During this time they probably treated each other badly.
Given the lack of life in the caves these first caucasians probably ate each other and suffered many bad things.
These first Caucasians probably left the caves bitter because they had lost their pigmentation--while many of the people they saw when they left the caves were pigmented=Blacks.
The original home of the Caucasians was the Caucasus Mountains.
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: The origin of whites lie in the Caves of the Caucasus mountains. This is why Europeans in the Quran are called the People of the Cave.
It was from here that whites came from the bowels of the earth after the tectonic events of 2000 BC. By 1300BC, the Caucasians, led by the Hittites began to advance from Anatolia into Europe and the Middle East.
Between 1500-500 BC, Caucasians began to exterminate Blacks in Europe, North Africa, India and much of the Middle East and replace them.
The Egyptians called these people the People of the Sea.
In conclusion the original home of the Caucasians was the caves of the Caucasus mountains. They were let out of the caves by tectonic events that weakend Black civilizations after 1500BC to such an extent as to make the Black civilizations in Europe and elsewhere, open for invasion and genocide.
Dr. Winters
I concur. The theory you've outlined I also endorse. Albinism in whites originated either in caves or through Africans with mutated genes. No other theory stands up against the available evidence. There is no SURFACE region on the entire planet that Whites have environmentally adapted to.
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Please consolidate some of your info as per which areas they came into first these areas:
1. Turkey 2. Persia 3. Africa 4. Greece 5. Caucasus, Russia + Eastern Europe 6. Western Europe 7. Spain 8. Italy 9. Nordic countries 10.Middle East
Like I said at the beginning I'm not saying Caucasians where the first people in these areas. I'm asking in which areas from earliest to last did they first come from? 1)You are saying Caucasians came from Cro-Magnon black people probably the San who spread the Aurignacian from Spain to the Caucasus mountains. And you are saying they lost their pigmentation from living in caves. Of course they couldn't have stayed in the caves all day long because you need fire wood and to go out and hunt all day long outside to find animals and kill them for food and also forage for some leaves and berries which take time to gather. You can see on pre-historic cave walls in France that they were always showing hunting scenes. There are also people who lived in caves in South Africa. But the whole North of the Equator has less sun. I don't see how it has to do with the shelter itself. These other white cave creatures never go out of the cave so you can't compare. You hunt and gather in the day and sleep in a cave or a wood shelter at night it makes no difference. It takes all day to hunt and even if your outside all day long you are wearing clothes that protect you from the cold and the same time prevents you from getting Vitamin D. Therefore if your head is going to be exposed you would need to have lighter skin to absorb as much of the lesser sun in those areas.
2) The Chinese, some are medium toned skin and many millions are as pale as white people. How did this occur? Are they also from Cro-Magnon black people who spread the Aurignacian? If you look at Asian facial features they have much smaller noses than the San people. The eye shape is different and their hair is straight.
3) How did Asian people's hair get straight?
4) You mentioned Spain as the entry point. What about coming from Egypt, going into the Middle East and spreading into Asia. That's also closer to China. And closer to the Caucasus.
5) If you look at the whole top quarter of the world, the whole area above Africa there's less sunlight there. If Caucasian people were formally black because of less sunlight that must mean there are people who settled not as far north who are an in between skin color due to a medium amount of sun. That's simple logic. Therefore while some medium toned people could be the result of the extremes of a light skinned person having a child with a dark skinned person there would be many more who never mixed, they just didn't go as far North as the people who would became Caucasian. You said from Spain to the Caucasus. There is a lot of territory between Spain and the Caucasus. Northern China is also farther North than the Caucus.
6) If you say that people were migrating out of Africa from Spain what about migrating out of Egypt? That's a much closer distance to the Caucasus. You have Iran on the way and those people look Caucasian. Yes the original people who first came there where black. But as they stayed there their skin must have lightened.
7) Is it possible that the origin of all light skinned people including many Chinese all came from North West Africa and moved from there into Spain and then parts of Asia? Maybe. If you look on a map if people were migrating into Spain it goes straight into Western Europe then you have to go a lot more East to get to the Caucuses. If this is where these Cro Magnon black people changed into Caucasians that means that they would then have to double back in migration and go back West and populate Western Europe as Caucasians and also Nordic countries like Norway and Finland. It doesn't seem to make sense. It doesn't seem logical that Caucasians would only originate in the Caucus mountains just because there are mountains there. There are also caves in Western Europe, in South Africa, South America and all over the world.
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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1) During the last Ice Age, Cro-Magnon man was unable to exit the caves because of the Ice. As a result, these Blacks were in the caves for thousands of years. During this extended period of time the Blacks were depigmented.
2-3,6) The Chinese also claim they originated in a mountainous area: Huang Shang mountain range.
Huangshan mountains
Here we also find many caves.
If there were blacks in these caves during the last Ice Age they would have been the Australian or Aborigine Blacks who left Africa 60kya.
Australians
Chinese
Aborigines
This would explain the links between Australians and Chinese in relation to hair texture and the red hair of both populations.
4) People could not enter Europe before the last Ice Age from Egypt because the Neanderthal people dominated the Levant.
5) The spread of Cro-Magnon from Spain to Eastern Europe is supported by the spread of Aurignacian artifacts.
7) It is clear from the linguistic evidence that the first Indo-Europeans migrated eastward and westward from Anatolia into Europe and India.
Light skinned people could not have originated in North Africa. Craniometrics and examination of pelvis bones indicate that whites only recently entered North Africa.
I hope this has answered your questions.
quote:Originally posted by the lion: @Clyde Winters
Please consolidate some of your info as per which areas they came into first these areas:
1. Turkey 2. Persia 3. Africa 4. Greece 5. Caucasus, Russia + Eastern Europe 6. Western Europe 7. Spain 8. Italy 9. Nordic countries 10.Middle East
Like I said at the beginning I'm not saying Caucasians where the first people in these areas. I'm asking in which areas from earliest to last did they first come from? 1)You are saying Caucasians came from Cro-Magnon black people probably the San who spread the Aurignacian from Spain to the Caucasus mountains. And you are saying they lost their pigmentation from living in caves. Of course they couldn't have stayed in the caves all day long because you need fire wood and to go out and hunt all day long outside to find animals and kill them for food and also forage for some leaves and berries which take time to gather. You can see on pre-historic cave walls in France that they were always showing hunting scenes. There are also people who lived in caves in South Africa. But the whole North of the Equator has less sun. I don't see how it has to do with the shelter itself. These other white cave creatures never go out of the cave so you can't compare. You hunt and gather in the day and sleep in a cave or a wood shelter at night it makes no difference. It takes all day to hunt and even if your outside all day long you are wearing clothes that protect you from the cold and the same time prevents you from getting Vitamin D. Therefore if your head is going to be exposed you would need to have lighter skin to absorb as much of the lesser sun in those areas.
2) The Chinese, some are medium toned skin and many millions are as pale as white people. How did this occur? Are they also from Cro-Magnon black people who spread the Aurignacian? If you look at Asian facial features they have much smaller noses than the San people. The eye shape is different and their hair is straight.
3) How did Asian people's hair get straight?
4) You mentioned Spain as the entry point. What about coming from Egypt, going into the Middle East and spreading into Asia. That's also closer to China. And closer to the Caucasus.
5) If you look at the whole top quarter of the world, the whole area above Africa there's less sunlight there. If Caucasian people were formally black because of less sunlight that must mean there are people who settled not as far north who are an in between skin color due to a medium amount of sun. That's simple logic. Therefore while some medium toned people could be the result of the extremes of a light skinned person having a child with a dark skinned person there would be many more who never mixed, they just didn't go as far North as the people who would became Caucasian. You said from Spain to the Caucasus. There is a lot of territory between Spain and the Caucasus. Northern China is also farther North than the Caucus.
6) If you say that people were migrating out of Africa from Spain what about migrating out of Egypt? That's a much closer distance to the Caucasus. You have Iran on the way and those people look Caucasian. Yes the original people who first came there where black. But as they stayed there their skin must have lightened.
7) Is it possible that the origin of all light skinned people including many Chinese all came from North West Africa and moved from there into Spain and then parts of Asia? Maybe. If you look on a map if people were migrating into Spain it goes straight into Western Europe then you have to go a lot more East to get to the Caucuses. If this is where these Cro Magnon black people changed into Caucasians that means that they would then have to double back in migration and go back West and populate Western Europe as Caucasians and also Nordic countries like Norway and Finland. It doesn't seem to make sense. It doesn't seem logical that Caucasians would only originate in the Caucus mountains just because there are mountains there. There are also caves in Western Europe, in South Africa, South America and all over the world.
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: @ lion I will try to answer you questions.
1) During the last Ice Age, Cro-Magnon man was unable to exit the caves because of the Ice. As a result, these Blacks were in the caves for thousands of years. During this extended period of time the Blacks were depigmented.
I don't understand what you mean by
" Cro-Magnon man was unable to exit the caves"
Anybody who would be unable to exist a cave would die quickly due to of lack of food and not having access to having firewood to make fires every night to keep from freezing.
Why do these cave walls have paintings of hunting scenes? Because people are able to exit the cave hunt and gather for food and to collect firewood to start a fire so they don't freeze to death.
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: @ lion I will try to answer you questions.
1) During the last Ice Age, Cro-Magnon man was unable to exit the caves because of the Ice. As a result, these Blacks were in the caves for thousands of years. During this extended period of time the Blacks were depigmented.
I don't understand what you mean by
" Cro-Magnon man was unable to exit the caves"
Anybody who would be unable to exist a cave would die quickly due to of lack of food and not having access to having firewood to make fires every night to keep from freezing.
Why do these cave walls have paintings of hunting scenes? Because people are able to exit the cave hunt and gather for food and to collect firewood to start a fire so they don't freeze to death.
There is food in caves
They had drawings in the caves because they were originally temples.
Once the ice came they would not have been able to exit the caves due to the cold.
Due to the cold and lack of fire wood they would have went deeper into the caves.They may have been able to keep warm by burning mainly lichens.
At first they may have eaten any animals they took into the caves with them.
Over time they would have ate what ever they could find in the caves. There are many sources of food in caves. Over time man would have developed ways to manage the food resources to provide enough food to feed themselves. Eventually they may have eaten each other to provide other food resources.
White people are no more cannibles then any other ethnicity. I understand that Europeans have made insulting attacks on other ethnicitys, but to say there ancestors were eating each other until the Ice melted just seems farfetched.
What study have you read that makes you make these comments about Cro-Magnon. Maybe these people (Cro-Magnon) died out and are not infact ancestors of Humans? Mind you I don't comment on these kinds of threads because I don't really believe the "We came from monkeys" nonsense.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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White people are no more cannibles then any other ethnicity. I understand that Europeans have made insulting attacks on other ethnicitys, but to say there ancestors were eating each other until the Ice melted just seems farfetched.
What study have you read that makes you make these comments about Cro-Magnon. Maybe these people (Cro-Magnon) died out and are not infact ancestors of Humans? Mind you I don't comment on these kinds of threads because I don't really believe the "We came from monkeys" nonsense.
Peace
As you probably know archaeologists have found human bones in caves that appear to have been the result of human exploitation.
Have you ever noticed how Europeans can think of the most horrible creatures in their imagination and put them in books and movies. Creatures that other populations can not imagine.
I believe that these creatures may be race memories, Europeans access from the memories they have of their former experiences in the caves.
As pointed out above there are other food resources in caves but, some people may have wanted to use humans as a source of food.
Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
Cannibalism may have been common among some ancient populations
quote:
Anthropologists such as Tim D. White suggest that cannibalism was common in human societies prior to the beginning of the Upper Paleolithic during the Middle Paleolithic, based on the large amount of “butchered human" bones found in Neanderthal and other Middle Paleolithic sites.[18] Cannibalism in the Middle Paleolithic may have occurred because of food shortages.[19] However it is also possible that Middle Paleolithic cannabalism occurred for religious reasons which would coincide with the development of religious practices thought to have occurred during the Upper Paleolithic.[20][21]
Nonetheless it remains possible that Middle Paleolithic societies never practiced cannibalism and that the damage to recovered human bones was either the result of ritual post-mortem bone cleaning or predation by carnivores such as Saber tooth cats, lions and hyenas.[21]
If thats the case(Human bones with teeth marks) Then thats just sad.
Really though you should have proof of this before you try and claim the Ancestors of whites were cannibles like that.
As for imagining creatures, I don't think it's because of any twisted part of the European mind. I see it more as them just being heavy dreamers. Really though I see no reason to put down Europeans anymore then to put down Africans. We are all people and we all have a common enemy in the Elites in The world who dictate to the mass(People) How to look,think, and live.
When you realize that Black, White etc. we are all in the same Boat and are trying to survive and we need to stand strong as a united "Human" race. Until this happens, our lives will always be dictated to us by the Elites. Sad thing is, that as we put History back in it's proper place, we see people taking the chance to take cheap shots at Whites, when it was the minority of them that has attacked and tried to harm the Colored people of the world.
Clyde I have been learning about how schools in Chicago are closing down or are being merged. I think this is disgusting and shows how the people are again being attacked by the elites and there team of puppet leaders. Shameful.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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If thats the case(Human bones with teeth marks) Then thats just sad.
Really though you should have proof of this before you try and claim the Ancestors of whites were cannibles like that.
As for imagining creatures, I don't think it's because of any twisted part of the European mind. I see it more as them just being heavy dreamers. Really though I see no reason to put down Europeans anymore then to put down Africans. We are all people and we all have a common enemy in the Elites in The world who dictate to the mass(People) How to look,think, and live.
When you realize that Black, White etc. we are all in the same Boat and are trying to survive and we need to stand strong as a united "Human" race. Until this happens, our lives will always be dictated to us by the Elites. Sad thing is, that as we put History back in it's proper place, we see people taking the chance to take cheap shots at Whites, when it was the minority of them that has attacked and tried to harm the Colored people of the world.
Clyde I have been learning about how schools in Chicago are closing down or are being merged. I think this is disgusting and shows how the people are again being attacked by the elites and there team of puppet leaders. Shameful.
Peace
King I am not putting down Europeans I am just acknowedging what the evidence is suggesting. I love everyone.
Schools are being closed down in Chicago so they can get extra money. The RTTT grants are given to school districts that close public schools and convert them into charter schools. Pres. Obama is giving Billions $$$ to schools that covert public schools into charter schools.
posted
Come on Clyde. Hope you are clowning around. I can understand primarily living the caves and or dark cold places during the LGM . . . .but emerging from caves AFTER an earthquake? Come on. This would mean they never came up or were trapped. Plus the epicenter of true whites is not the Caucasus Mountains. I agree with the low light thing (caves) but the earthquake .. . .
And. Does the Quran rally call them "people of the caves"??????
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: The origin of whites lie in the Caves of the Caucasus mountains.
This is why Europeans in the Quran are called the People of the Cave.
It was from here that whites came from the bowels of the earth after the tectonic events of 2000 BC. (WHAAAATTTT!!!!)
The Egyptians called these people the People of the Sea. (WHAAATTT!!!)
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
xyy, Clyde is a complete moron. I actually think he is mentally ill. It is one thing to have an extreme ideology, quite another to walk around with your thumb in your mouth all day.
Posts: 2036 | From: Texas | Registered: Sep 2009
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Come one Clyde. Hope you are clowning around. I can understand primarily living the caves and or dark cold places during the LGM . . . .but emerging from caves AFTER an earthquake? Come on. This would mean they never came up or were trapped. Plus the epicenter of true whites is not the Caucasus Mountains. I agree with the low light thing (caves) but the earthquake .. . .
And. Does the Quran rally call them "people of the caves"??????
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: The origin of whites lie in the Caves of the Caucasus mountains.
This is why Europeans in the Quran are called the People of the Cave.
It was from here that whites came from the bowels of the earth after the tectonic events of 2000 BC. (WHAAAATTTT!!!!)
The Egyptians called these people the People of the Sea. (WHAAATTT!!!)
Yes Europeans or Westerners who have adopted Christianity are called the people of the cave. They are mentioned in Sura 18, The Cave (Al-Kahf).
quote:
The Dwellers of the Cave
[18:9] Why else do you think we are telling you about the people of the cave, and the numbers connected with them? They are among our wondrous signs.
[18:10] When the youths took refuge in the cave, they said, "Our Lord, shower us with Your mercy, and bless our affairs with Your guidance."
[18:11] We then sealed their ears in the cave for a predetermined number of years.
[18:12] Then we resurrected them to see which of the two parties could count the duration of their stay therein.
[18:13] We narrate to you their history, truthfully. They were youths who believed in their Lord, and we increased their guidance.
[18:14] We strengthened their hearts when they stood up and proclaimed: "Our only Lord is the Lord of the heavens and the earth. We will never worship any other god beside Him. Otherwise, we would be far astray.
[18:15] "Here are our people setting up gods beside Him. If only they could provide any proof to support their stand! Who is more evil than the one who fabricates lies and attributes them to GOD?
Beginning with the SANTORINI ERUPTION (~1630 BC), natural disasters began to weaken city-states across the Mediterranean and Anatolia.
As a result of this catastrophe, many states were weaken and migrations were set to effect as people left the cities in search of new lands to settle.
The People of the Sea are often recognized as a catastrophe because of the destruction they spread across nthe Mediterranean .Between 1300-1200 BC almost every significant city or palace was destroyed in the eastern Mediterranean were destroyed by the People of the Sea (http://www.amazon.com/End-Bronze-Age-Robert-Drews/dp/0691025916#reader_0691025916 p.4).
posted
Originally posted by the lion: @Clyde Winters
During the Ice Age there were woolly mammoth, , cave bears, bison, wolves, horses, and herds of reindeer.
So why would people be trapped in a cave unable to exit?
During the last Ice Age many Woolly Mammoths were frozen while they were eating. This shows that the last Ice Age came suddenly.
If Woolly Mammoths were frozen while eating, we know that the cold came suddenly.
You posted these pictures
This picture shows caves with open entrances and a set of steps
This is a picture of caves that were recently made into a Temple. There were no steps here in ancient times.
This picture shows a painting of people outside hunting an ice age animal
This is just a painting to illustrate how the caves were used as temples before the last Ice Age. The fact that they were seen as temples encouraged the Cro-Magnon people to seek refuge in them when the Ice Age sweep across Europe.
this picture shows a blind animal with no pigmentation
this picture shows a person who is not blind and has light melanin pigmentation
This just a picture of alleged early Europeans. There are no pictures of the original Europeans when they exited the caves.
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: [QB] Originally posted by the lion: @Clyde Winters
During the Ice Age there were woolly mammoth, , cave bears, bison, wolves, horses, and herds of reindeer.
So why would people be trapped in a cave unable to exit?
During the last Ice Age many Woolly Mammoths were frozen while they were eating. This shows that the last Ice Age came suddenly.
If Woolly Mammoths were frozen while eating, we know that the cold came suddenly.
When you say "suddenly" how much time are you talking about one day, hundreds of years or thousands of years?
Why did the Woolly Mammoth have so much hair? How did they get that way? How did long did it take for then to develop that much hair?
During the ice age some area were completely covered in glaciers. Other areas were a mixture of ice covered areas alternating with other ares that had vegetation. These mixed areas were still part of the overall ice age area. Mammals could survive in these areas and did for thousands of years. That means people could also survive in these areas by hunting those animals using their furs for warmth, making fires and sleeping in caves.
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
lol...met a really trippy wizard nutter at a festival once that was convinced there was a race of beings living underground still....they must look like Golom by now....the earthquake must have kept them there....Maybe it was Wizard Winters I met...
Posts: 314 | From: australia | Registered: Jul 2010
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posted
Actually the origins of Europeans came from many sources. The term caucasian and the idea of Europeans originating in the Caucasus is more folk tale than anthropology. By the time the ice retreated, the people started flowing back from the East and included populations from South Asia, Central Asia, the Levant and parts of Africa. From this stock arose the features identified as European "caucasian" originated. Nobody knows exactly when the trait of permanent pale skin arose in these people, but it has been estimated to have been from 10-20,000 years ago.
Clyde is also correct that the original populations of Mesopotamia did indeed include black aboriginal types from Mesopotamia, Africa and Arabia and these were gradually replaced by more northern populations ultimately originating in and around the Caucasus and Eurasian Steppes. But this nonsense about cave mutations is pure fantasy land.
Feature wise, there is no such thing as a feature type that originated in the caucasus, as people with extremely narrow gracile facial structures developed in Africa and South Asia prior to the population of the Caucasus mountains.
Posts: 8889 | Registered: May 2005
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I don't go for al~Imam Isa's Caucus-Asians (deteriorating Asaians) theory modified and further developed by Dr. Winters as he outlines above but the facial features of the vast majority of Europeans do not match the narrow features of either East Africans or Indian sub-continentals.
I've no idea where their features come from but if you take a picture of your average European and retint the flesh to the black through red-black tones of narrow featured East Africans or Indians you'll see European peoples by and large don't wear the faces of narrow featured tropical peoples.
They are a unique facial featured people unmatched by those from Africa, East & South Asia, Australia, Oceana, or the Americas.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
The cave theory as the origin of White people fits in well with explaining why it is that today's whites, with little or no admixture are non-adaptive to any of the world's UV environments.
As we clearly see in Africa among African Albinos, Africa's UV index literally burns African albinos up and results in a life expectancy of 30-40 years. With little melanin, African albinos lack the thermal "radiator" to dissipate heat generated by the absorption of Africa's intense UV radiation. Couple this to compromised immunity systems inherent to Albinism, and the body no longer has the capability to HEAL real-time damage resulting from Sun burn.
As We see in Israel and Australia, skin cancer rates are the highest on the globe, AND CLIMBING! In fact, whites are even susceptible to skin cancer in Alaska and their supposed native land, Europe! How could this be true when you lack basic adaption to your own native land?
Further, the human body is an amazing piece of work. It contains adaptive networks that dynamically compensate for various malfunctions and provide almost complete facilities for self repair. This is why basically there could not have been any "whitening" of blacks in a natural way other then what we observe in the INUITS or Siberian tribes who shed some skin pigmentation (not eye pigments) naturally while leaving the immunity system compromised. This is typical of the human body's natural response to environmental change without making drastic compromises leaving the body prone to shorter life span due to an inability to ward off disease or injury.
That the ancestors of whites were trapped or shielded from the earth's surface environment and under went this drastic physical transformation is a much stronger probability explaining the origin of whites compared to other theories which have been widely promoted by whites (and accepted by all) regarding insufficient vitamin D intake, or skin melanin lose to enable greater UV penetration of the skin in order to allow whites to absorb more UV enabling higher levels of Vitamin D production. This theory completing disregards the susceptibility of DNA damage due to radiation bombardment of the now unprotected reproductive organs. Therefore, These ACCEPTED theories are based on false assumptions of how the "normal" human body actually works.
Al Takruri's remarks above regarding no referencing group on the earth's surface having these same facial feature deviations only adds to the very possible validity of this cave theory, and certainly does nothing to refute it.
Posts: 2403 | Registered: Feb 2010
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Why bother refuting religious mythology adapted to physical anthropology?
quote:Originally posted by MelaninKing:
Al Takruri's remarks above regarding no referencing group on the earth's surface having these same facial feature deviations only adds to the very possible validity of this cave theory, and certainly does nothing to refute it.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Why bother refuting religious mythology adapted to physical anthropology?
quote:Originally posted by MelaninKing:
Al Takruri's remarks above regarding no referencing group on the earth's surface having these same facial feature deviations only adds to the very possible validity of this cave theory, and certainly does nothing to refute it.
First, it may assist in re-enforcing the standard belief. Perhaps not. As you should recognize very well, there is some value in mythology.
Anthropology aspects of ALBINISM
Albinism represents a group of inherited abnormalities of the melanin pigment system in which the synthesis of melanin is absent or reduced, generalized (oculocutaneous albinism) or localised (ocular albinism). Recent molecular studies provide insight into the pathophysiological processes of pigmentation regulation and help our understanding of the genetic heterogeneity of human albinism. It rarely affects Europeans, frequently Africans, only a minority of Amerindians, who nevertheless, when an ethnic group is concerned, presents one of the highest incidence in the world.
Historically, the African albinos were used as an alibi by the European theologians to support Adam's descent of humanity and by naturalists to affirm the alleged superiority of the white men. Anthropological data are mainly issued from Amerindians with contradictories attitudes towards albinos: both acceptance and rejection. Only the Kuna of Panama have given albinos a major place in their mythology, although in reality they frequently reject them.Posts: 2403 | Registered: Feb 2010
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posted
Melanin can't you see the illogic of what you are saying? African people pop out more albino children than any other continent. If white people are albino then why would they need to be locked off in cave that was totally sealed shut by ice for thousands of years, let alone be able to survive
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Damn you're stupid!
i.e. Afroeccentricity
Furthermore if one wants to go with the locked in a cave for thousands of years theory then the fact that the people's skin turned white as a result shows an adaptation well suited to that cave environment. Melanin most people use 2% you are using half a percent
In other words Mike's albino theory is completely different and opposed to Clyde Winter's ice closed cave theory.
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A) Mike's Albino Theory is based on people who have significant pigmentation producing children who suddenly are born with no pigmentation. He says they later mixed with pigmented people.
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B) Clyde's Shut Cave Theory is based on pigmented people undergoing slow adaptive change over thousands of years adjusting to a dark cave environment in the same way you can find other albino animals living in some caves. He says that they were locked in the caves 24 hours a day because they got shut by ice from the ice age.
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so make up your mind my mellow, in this world we can't have it both ways
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Doug M: Actually the origins of Europeans came from many sources. The term caucasian and the idea of Europeans originating in the Caucasus is more folk tale than anthropology. By the time the ice retreated, the people started flowing back from the East and included populations from South Asia, Central Asia, the Levant and parts of Africa. From this stock arose the features identified as European "caucasian" originated. Nobody knows exactly when the trait of permanent pale skin arose in these people, but it has been estimated to have been from 10-20,000 years ago.
Clyde is also correct that the original populations of Mesopotamia did indeed include black aboriginal types from Mesopotamia, Africa and Arabia and these were gradually replaced by more northern populations ultimately originating in and around the Caucasus and Eurasian Steppes. But this nonsense about cave mutations is pure fantasy land.
Feature wise, there is no such thing as a feature type that originated in the caucasus, as people with extremely narrow gracile facial structures developed in Africa and South Asia prior to the population of the Caucasus mountains.
Do you have ANY evidence to support ANY of that?
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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Feature wise, there is no such thing as a feature type that originated in the caucasus, as people with extremely narrow gracile facial structures developed in Africa and South Asia prior to the population of the Caucasus mountains. [/QB]
Explorer argues otherwise:
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: (photo 2, below)
Of course there is such a thing as features that are not African, granted that African diversity encompasses much of that found outside of the continent. The Pinocchio-like tip of the nose that is frequently found in northern west Eurasians is generally rare, if not absent, in autochthonous African populations. The level of loss of epidermal pigmentation in northern Europe is essentially not African, as a natural selection feature as opposed to a genetic mishap. Likewise, certain hair textures found in Europe are rare to absent in Africa. The orbital ridges that are prominent in Australian populations, once a frequent trait in Africa, is no longer prominent on the continent. These are merely a few examples that immediately pop into mind.
Visual aids...
A common example of this is the nose job done on the facial reconstruction of Tut:
It appears that there was an attempt to "Europeanize" Tut's nose, but it came out in a peculiar way instead. Tut's contemporaneous sculptures don't feature such nose tips on his busts.
^This last one perhaps does a good job of showing the contrasts. The female's nose is by no means flat, but next to the male's, the tip of her nose points out relatively lesser than the "white" male counterpart. Note the differences in nostrils too. The male's is longer and the opening of the nostrils are relatively narrower than that of the female, while the latter's nostril [its outlines] appear relatively more flared or emphasized. So by "Pinocchio"-like nose tip, I'm referring to these type of side-profile outward projections of the nose, and the relatively "sharper" or "pointier" tip (often slanting downwards), usually in accompaniment by narrower (in tandem with understated nostril lines) long nostril openings, which appear as though someone is pressing on the nostrils.
Ps: Observe the tips of the nose and the nostrils...
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: Melanin can't you see the illogic of what you are saying? African people pop out more albino children than any other continent. If white people are albino then why would they need to be locked off in cave that was totally sealed shut by ice for thousands of years, let alone be able to survive
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Damn you're stupid!
i.e. Afroeccentricity
Furthermore if one wants to go with the locked in a cave for thousands of years theory then the fact that the people's skin turned white as a result shows an adaptation well suited to that cave environment. Melanin most people use 2% you are using half a percent
In other words Mike's albino theory is completely different and opposed to Clyde Winter's ice closed cave theory.
________________________________________________
A) Mike's Albino Theory is based on people who have significant pigmentation producing children who suddenly are born with no pigmentation. He says they later mixed with pigmented people.
________________________________________________
B) Clyde's Shut Cave Theory is based on pigmented people undergoing slow adaptive change over thousands of years adjusting to a dark cave environment in the same way you can find other albino animals living in some caves. He says that they were locked in the caves 24 hours a day because they got shut by ice from the ice age.
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so make up your mind my mellow, in this world we can't have it both ways
No little kitten. It is you who refuse to use your brain in a constructive manner.
Both theories can be correct simultaneously, and include other plausible theories as well. That is, unless you emotionally just don't wish it to be true.
Of course Africa yields more incidents of the physical defect, Albinism.
The symptoms in Africans will certainly be more pronounced versus the population.
The question is no longer, IF whites are Albino, but when and where could it have occurred.
Albinism (incomplete, not perfect/full) would of course be much more difficult to detect in Europe or other regions with more whites since they all display symptoms of partial albinism. What is it that you are finding so difficult to comprehend?
posted
^Like most of them, denial is the key to Lionesses denseness.
As to the incidence of Albinism in Albinos - does the statement of what we are really talking about, bring the absurdity of the argument into focus?
How many have seen pure-White, Blond-haired, Blue-eyed, people passed of as "Normal"?
"WITH" the exclamation that such a perfect creature must be a gift from God!
Come on folks, the only people who actually believe that, are the people that it was intended for: Dim-witted Blacks.
i.e. Note the stampede of White women jockeying to get some of that White cock, so that they can make babies just like that.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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Yawnnnnn!!! First off, there are No Caucasians. Putting a name(Caucasians) to group of people who are ethnically different and most of all genetically dis-similar is . . .retarded, unscientific and .. . . Giganticist.
Seems like every six months we recycle the same arguments. Running out of topics I see. I have said this a thousand times. According to the global UV intensity/skin pigmentation map the lightest skin should be found . . . in the Scandinavian regions of Europe. And guess where the white-ist, blondest people are found today. The Scandinavian regions of Europe. SUPRISE!! This is a no-brainer. It is not rocket science.
According to genetic studies Scandinavians are genetically distinct from Western and Southern Europeans. ie with HG-I at least 25ky seperated from Hg-R1b1b. As you move further South HG-I trails off to lower percentages.
According to Dr Norvesdt(?) and many other scholars HG-I expansion mimics the Germanic people expansion which began about 2k BC. See postings by Clyde, Marc and Mike.
I don't agree with the Albino thing but clearly the evidence shows that the really white skin has very little "natural" environment besides cold dark caves(MK et al).
My educated guess is Western and Southern Europeans are a blend of Africans(R1b1) and Asians. . . no wait. . .where have I heard that before!!!
Stop looking at pictures and start reading and interpreting the data.
How did the skin turn white. See the Rana study posted on ESR.
Educate yourself. PLEASE!!!!
quote:Originally posted by the lion:
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Originally posted by xyyman: Plus the epicenter of true whites is not the Caucasus Mountains.
what is the epicenter of true whites?
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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Here is a clue. Science can be a useful tool. He! He! He! My guess is you are probably in your sixties since you rely so much on pictures to prove your point.
Check the said UV map. What can you infer from it? Let me help you. Sudan/Egypt should be a blend of dark and light brown peoples. NO ADMIXTURE needed!!! Didn't Keita say that(Ha!). Light brown skin could be an indication of admixture . . .or NOT.
I may even add, to your amazement, that the light skin of the Atlas people MAY be "indigenous". Why? The UV map. Again, didn't Keita hint at that.
AEians were a blend of Black(politically) Africans from the South and the Sahara. BTW they were Sudanese more than Somalians(wink! Osirion(another picture lover).
Read up on your Geography!!!
Please waste someone else's time.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Given the lack of life in the caves these first caucasians probably ate each other and suffered many bad things.
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