posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Kalonji:
This is what happens when you come to these sites to sprout your Afrocentric/Eurocentric dogma, vs coming here to learn and being open.

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Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

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quote:

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Originally posted by anguishofbeing:
Ok, but some might argue that Mike and Winters aren't Afrocentics.

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Originally posted by anguishofbeing:
And it seems as if both of you dont think Afrocentric scholarship is based on empiricism, but a priori assumptions.

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quote:

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Originally posted by anguishofbeing:
In the interest of clarity it might be better if you identified who coined the term and what did they mean by it.

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Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Kalonji:

quote:

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Originally posted by anguishofbeing:
In the interest of clarity it might be better if you identified who coined the term and what did they mean by it.

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I do not know when it was coined or by whom.

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Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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There is more to the term than the static event of an individual who called it into being.

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Yes you can argue that language and meanings aren't always stable. However, you want to make it so by trying to make Afrocentricity synonymous with sloppy scholarship. This is in contradiction to your postmodern theorizing.

Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by anguishofbeing:

quote:

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Originally posted by Kalonji:

quote:

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Originally posted by anguishofbeing:
In the interest of clarity it might be better if you identified who coined the term and what did they mean by it.

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I do not know when it was coined or by whom.

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Same way dude calls his arse Kalonji but don't know who coined that name or for what it was coined...

Dumb kids of today! Too much kool aid..

Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

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quote:

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Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
To me Afrocentrics are "Black Centrics", Now the Original Afrocentrics Focused on African Kingdoms like Nubia and Egypt but now its all about Europe, China and the Americas, So Afrocentrics is simply Black centric, a Reaction movement toward the Eurocentric movement which is White or Caucasian centered..

For example By African Centered I mean places Like Egypt, Nubia, Ethiopia, Mali..etc. But the Afrocentrics like Mike and others claim the Indians, the Chinese, Black Dutch, The Arabs, the Native Americans, The Olmec, The Greeks..etc Not that Im saying Blacks are ONLY found in Africa but Afrocentric is a misnomer it should be Black Centric.

Eurocentrics claim also, The Indians, the Arabs, the Egyptians, the Ethiopians, The Greeks, etc.

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Afrocentrism was never solely concerned with Nubia and Egypt.Though this is the view of many, Afrocentrism, is a mature social science that was founded by Afro-Americans almost 200 years ago.

These men and women provided scholarship based on contemporary archaeological and historical research the African/Black origination of civilization throughout the world. These Afro-American scholars, mostly trained at Harvard University (one of the few Universities that admitted Blacks in the 19th Century) provide the scientific basis for Afrocentrism and the global role played by African people in civilizing the world.

Afrocentrism and the africalogical study of ancient Black civilizations was began by Afro-Americans.



Edward Blyden

The foundation of any mature science is its articulation in an authoritive text (Kuhn, 1996, 136). The africalogical textbooks published by Hopkins (1905), Perry (1893) and Williams (1883) provided the vocabulary themes for further afrocentric social science research.

The pedagogy for ancient africalogical research was well established by the end of the 19th century by African American researchers well versed in the classical languages and knowledge of Greek and Latin. Cornish and Russwurm (1827) in the Freedom Journal, were the first African Americans to discuss and explain the "Ancient Model" of history.



These afrocentric social scientists used the classics to prove that the Blacks founded civilization in Egypt, Ethiopia, Babylon and Ninevah. Cornish and Russwurm (1827) made it clear that archaeological research supported the classical, or "Ancient Model" of history.

Edward Blyden (1869) also used classical sources to discuss the ancient history of African people. In his work he not only discussed the evidence for Blacks in West Asia and Egypt, he also discussed the role of Blacks in ancient America (Blyden, 1869, 78).

By 1883, africalogical researchers began to publish book on African American history. G.W. Williams (1883) wrote the first textbook on African American history. In the History of the Negro Race in America, Dr. Williams provided the schema for all future africalogical history text.



Dr. Williams (1883) confirmed the classical traditions for Blacks founding civilization in both Africa (Egypt, Ethiopia) and West Asia. In addition, to confirming the "Ancient Model" of history, Dr. Williams (1883) also mentioned the presence of Blacks in Indo-China and the Malay Peninsula. Dr. Williams was trained at Howard.



A decade later R.L. Perry (1893) also presented evidence to confirm the classical traditions of Blacks founding Egypt, Greece and the Mesopotamian civilization. He also provided empirical evidence for the role of Blacks in Phoenicia, thus increasing the scope of the ASAH paradigms.



Pauline E. Hopkins (1905) added further articulation of the ASAH paradigms of the application of these paradigms in understanding the role of Blacks in West Asia and Africa. Hopkins (1905) provided further confirmation of the role of Blacks in Southeast Asia, and expanded the scope of africalogical research to China (1905).

This review of the 19th century africalogical social scientific research indicate confirmation of the "Ancient Model" for the early history of Blacks. We also see a movement away from self-published africalogical research, and publication of research, and the publication of research articles on afrocentric themes, to the publication of textbooks.

It was in these books that the paradigms associated with the "Ancient Model" and ASAH were confirmed, and given reliability by empirical research. It was these texts which provided the pedagogic vehicles for the perpetuation of the africalogical normal social science.

The afrocentric textbooks of Hopkins (1905), Perry (1893) and Williams (1883) proved the reliability and validity of the ASAH paradigms. The discussion in these text of contemporary scientific research findings proving the existence of ancient civilizations in Egypt, Nubia-Sudan (Kush), Mesopotamia, Palestine and North Africa lent congruency to the classical literature which pointed to the existence of these civilizations and these African origins ( i.e., the children of Ham= Khem =Kush?).

The authors of the africalogical textbooks reported the latest archaeological and anthropological findings. The archaeological findings reported in these textbooks added precision to their analysis of the classical and Old Testament literature. This along with the discovery of artifacts on the ancient sites depicting Black\African people proved that the classical and Old Testament literature, as opposed to the "Aryan Model", objectively identified the Black\African role in ancient history. And finally, these textbooks confirmed that any examination of references in the classical literature to Blacks in Egypt, Kush, Mesopotamia and Greece\Crete exhibited constancy to the evidence recovered from archaeological excavations in the Middle East and the Aegean. They in turn disconfirmed the "Aryan Model", which proved to be a falsification of the authentic history of Blacks in early times.

The creation of africalogical textbooks provided us with a number of facts revealing the nature of the afrocentric ancient history paradigms. They include a discussion of:

1) the artifacts depicting Blacks found at ancient sites

recovered through archaeological excavation;

2) the confirmation of the validity of the classical and Old

Testament references to Blacks as founders of civilization in Africa and Asia;

3) the presence of isolated pockets of Blacks existing outside Africa; and

4) that the contemporary Arab people in modern Egypt are not the descendants of the ancient Egyptians.


The early africalogical textbooks also outlined the africalogical themes research should endeavor to study. A result, of the data collected by the africalogical ancient history research pioneers led to the development of three facts by the end of the 19th century, which needed to be solved by the afrocentric paradigms:

(1) What is the exact relationship of ancient Egypt, to Blacks in other parts of Africa;

(2) How and when did Blacks settle America, Asia and Europe;

(3) What are the contributions of the Blacks to the rise, and cultural expression ancient Black\African civilizations;

(4) Did Africans settle parts of America in ancient times.

As you can see the structure of Afrocentrism were made long before Boas and the beginning of the 20th Century.In fact , I would not be surprised if Boas learned what he talked about from the early Afrocentric researchers discussed in this post.

As you can see Afro-Americans have be writing about the Global history of ancient Black civilizations for almost 200 years. It was Afro-Americans who first mentioned the African civilizations of West Africa and the Black roots of Egypt. These Afro-Americans made Africa a historical part of the world.

Afro-American scholars not only highlighted African history they also discussed the African/Black civilizations developed by African people outside Africa over a hundred years before Bernal and Boas.

Your history of what you call "negrocentric" or Black Studies is all wrong. It was DuBois who founded Black/Negro Studies, especially Afro-American studies given his work on the slave trade and sociological and historical studies of Afro-Americans. He mentions in the World and Africa about the Jews and other Europeans who were attempting to take over the field.

Hansberry
There is no one who can deny the fact that Leo Hansberry founded African studies in the U.S., not the Jews.Hansberry was a professor at Howard University.

Moreover, Bernal did not initiate any second wave of "negro/Blackcentric" study for ancient Egyptian civilization. Credit for this social science push is none other than Chiek Diop, who makes it clear that he was influenced by DuBois.



DuBois


These scholars recognized that the people of Southeast Asia and Indo-China were dark skined, some darker than African and Afro-American people. But when they discussed Blacks in Asia they were talking about people of African descent.


In conclusion, Afrocentrism is a mature social science. A social science firmly rooted in the scholarship of Afro-American researchers lasting almost 200 years. Researchers like Marc Washington, Clyde Winters and Mike are continuing a tradition of scholarship began 20 decades ago. All these contemporary researchers is doing is confirming research , that has not been disconfirmed over the past 200 years.

Aluta continua.....The struggle continues.....

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Lacouperie, Terrien de. (1891). The black heads of Babylonia and ancient China, The Babylonian and Oriental Record, 5 (11), 233-246.

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Moitt,B. (1989). "Chiekh Anta Diop and the African Diaspora:

Historical Continuity and Socio-Cultural Symbolism".

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Parker,G.W. (1917) . "The African Origin of Grecian Civilization

".Journal of Negro History, 2(3):334-344.

___________. (1981). The Children of the Sun. Baltimore,Md.:

Black Classic Press.

Perry, R.L. (1893). The Cushite. Brooklyn: The Literary Union.

Rawlinson, George. (1928).The History of Herodutus. New York

: Tudor.

Schomburg, A.A. (March, 1925).The Negro digs up his past.

Survey Graphic, 670-672.

Schomburg, A.A. (1979). Racial integrity. Baltimore, M.D.:

Black Classic Press.

Thompson, Jr. A.A. (1975). Pre-Columbian [African] presence

in the Western Hemisphere,Negro History Bulletin, 38 (7), 452-456.

Williams, G.W. (1869). History of the Negro Race in America. New York: G.P. Putnam.

Wimby, D. (1980). The Greco-Roman Tradition concerning Ethiopia and Egypt, black books bulletin, 7(1), 14-19, 25.

Winters, C.A. (1977). The influence of the Mande scripts on ancient American writing systems", Bulletin l'de IFAN, T39, serie B, no. 2 (1977), pp.941-967.

Winters, C.A. (1979). Manding Scripts in the New World", Journal of African Civilizations, l(1), 80-97.

Winters,C.A. (December 1981/ January 1982). Mexico's Black Heritage. The Black Collegian, 76-84.

Winters, C.A. (1983a). "The Ancient Manding Script". In Blacks

in Science:Ancient and Modern. (ed.) by Ivan van Sertima, (New Brunswick: Transaction Books) pp.208-215.

__________. (1983b). "Les Fondateurs de la Grece venaient d'Afrique en passant par la Crete". Afrique Histoire (Dakar), no.8:13-18.

_________. (1983c) "Famous Black Greeks Important in the development of Greek Culture". Return to the Source,2(1):8.

________.(1983d). "Blacks in Ancient China, Part 1, The Founders

of Xia and Shang", Journal of Black Studies 1 (2), 8-13.

________. (1984a). "Blacks in Europe before the Europeans".

Return to the Source, 3(1):26-33.

Winters, C.A. (1984b). Blacks in Ancient America, Colorlines, 3(2), 27-28.

Winters, C.A. (1984c). Africans found first American Civilization , African Monitor, l , pp.16-18.

_________.(1985a). "The Indus Valley Writing and related

Scripts of the 3rd Millennium BC". India Past and

Present, 2(1):13-19.

__________. (1985b). "The Proto-Culture of the Dravidians,

Manding and Sumerians". Tamil Civilization,3(1):1-9.

__________. (1985c). "The Far Eastern Origin of the Tamils",

Journal of Tamil Studies , no.27, pp.65-92.

__________.(1986). The Migration Routes of the Proto-Mande.

The Mankind Quarterly,27 (1), 77-96.

_________.(1986b). Dravidian Settlements in Ancient Polynesia.

India Past and Present, 3 (2), 225-241.

__________. (1988). "Common African and Dravidian Place Name

Elements". South Asian Anthropologist, 9(1):33-36.

__________. (1989a). "Tamil, Sumerian, Manding and the Genetic

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__________. (1989b). "Review of Dr. Asko Parpola's 'The Coming of the Aryans'",International Journal of Dravidian Linguistics, 18(2):98-127.

__________. (1990). "The Dravido-Harappan Colonization of Central Asia". Central Asiatic Journal, 34(1/2):120-144.

___________. (1991). "The Proto-Sahara". The Dravidian Encyclopaedia, (Trivandrum: International School of Dravidian Linguistics) pp.553-556. Volume l.

----------.(1994). Afrocentrism: A valid frame of reference, Journal of Black Studies, 25 (2), 170-190.

_________.(1994b). The Dravidian and African laguages, International Journal of Dravidian Linguistics, 23 (1), 34-52.

________.2007. Afrocentrism Myth or Science.www.lulu.com Here


Woodson, C.G. & Wesley, C.H. (1972). The Negro in Our History. Washington, D.C. Associated Publisher.

Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by anguishofbeing:
^ he who knows not and knows not he knows not...

Your problem is you want to save face all the time so you keep coming back displaying your amazing ignorance on the subject. You have a caricatured view of Afrocentricity that is typical of it detractors. Try to be open and learn - take your own advice. I'm sure Great Jew is laughing his @ss off at you not knowing the relevance of Prof. Asante to this discussion. lol

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quote:

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The word "Afrocentric" has been traced by Derrick Alridge to W. E. B. Du Bois, who employed it in the early 1960s. During the 1970s, Molefi Kete Asante appropriated the term, insisting that he was the only person equipped to define it, and asserting that even the holy archangels Du Bois and Cheikh Anta Diop had an imperfect and immature grasp of a concept that finds ultimate, unfalsifiable expression in his own pontifications. Subsequently, it became a catchall "floating signifier," nebulous, unstable, and infinitely mutable.

American Historical Review

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Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

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Originally posted by anguishofbeing:
What is Afrocentricity?

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quote:

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What are its "dogmas"?

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quote:

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Does it have dogmas?

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Posts: 2025 | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

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You dont know who coined the term and what they meant by it, yet you proceed to identify **perfect** examples of it (in order to link it to sloppy scholarship) as well as the "characteristics" and its "dogmas". This is amazing.

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Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Kalonji:
This has nothing to do with saving face. Nowhere in this thread have you shown or demonstrated anything. You just asked questions until you could find the first thing you could redicule and you ran with it.

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Posts: 2025 | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Gigantic:
I hope you realize anguishofbeing has a personality disorder. You are dealing with a mentally ill person.

quote:

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Originally posted by Kalonji:
This has nothing to do with saving face. Nowhere in this thread have you shown or demonstrated anything. You just asked questions until you could find the first thing you could redicule and you ran with it.

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Gigantic Misfit

Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

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Originally posted by anguishofbeing:
The problem with book reviews intended to **ridicule** instead of clarify is that they end up misinforming the reader.

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Originally posted by anguishofbeing:
Neither Van Sertima, Diop, DuBois or Rogers defined themselves as "Afrocentric".

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quote:

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Originally posted by anguishofbeing:
The term may have been "employed" by DuBois and appropriated by Asante but there was no "change of plans" at least where empirical study of African history was concerned.

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quote:

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Originally posted by anguishofbeing:
So it is not, contrary to your attempts, about advancing ideological views about Africa in spite of empirical evidence. In fact, its methodology follows the empirical tradition of the west but not its racist assumptions.

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Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

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Did the following happen, yes or no?Molefi Kete Asante appropriated the term, insisting that he was the only person equipped to define it, and asserting that even the holy archangels Du Bois and Cheikh Anta Diop had an imperfect and immature grasp of a concept that finds ultimate, unfalsifiable expression in his own pontifications.

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since ‘’Afrocentrism’’ is not the property of Asante, that he or anyone else can dictate that their interpretation should be the correct one.

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but you still end up with the fact that they all made themselves guilty of flawed scholarship, period.

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Other claims were the result of willful ignorance, wishful thinking and floppy scholarship.

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You can find willful ignornace among Afrocentrics, or black scholars who dont identify as such, but this is not atypical. Unless you are going to argue (along with Euros "inventing" science) that mainstream non-black non-Afrocentric science is value free and doesn't stubbornly hold onto cherished assumptions. And even this would be too far out for your dumbass.

quote:

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If the findings are acquired by empirical evidence, why is it ‘’Afrocentrism’’ and not just science?

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main concern is seeing Africans
(at home and abroad) as active agents in their
own affairs and not mere passive objects on the
periphery of European and Asian history and
movements.

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, but again this is not exclusive to Afrocentricity.

quote:

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Can you give me an example of an ''Afrocentric'' claim that can be demonstrated to be truthful, but exclusive to Afrocentrism, i.e. only accepted by Afrocentrists?

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quote:

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Can you show me how WEB Dubois used it, what he meant with it, and how his usage is corroborated my modern science?

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quote:

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Can you show me **HOW** and on what areas of research Afrocentrists, according to your use of the word, used the empirical method to arrive at their conclusions, and what these conclusions were?

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Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

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Originally posted by anguishofbeing:

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Originally posted by anguishofbeing:
our African ancestors

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posted                      

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Originally posted by Anguishofbeing:
I have never read him insisting he was the only person equipped to define the term

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quote:

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Originally posted by Anguishofbeing:
or that his claims are "ultimate" and "unfalsifiable",

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quote:

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Originally posted by Anguishofbeing:
First you get all postmodern re shifting meanings of terms but then you want to identify **typical examples** of the term Mike and Winters and its "dogmas". Either you don't understand the postmodern implications of what you first argued or you are a hypocrite who jumps from meanings-aren't-stable to essentialism. So what are you, a hypocrite or an ignoramus?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Anguishofbeing:
As you observed with anthropology, disciplines are guilty of making flawed claims that are later discredited. This can be said of science in general. Black scholars Diop, DuBois and Asante are not exceptional here.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Anguishofbeing:
You can find willful ignornace among Afrocentrics, or black scholars who dont identify as such, but this is not atypical.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Anguishofbeing:
Unless you are going to argue (along with Euros "inventing" science) that mainstream non-black non-Afrocentric science is value free and doesn't stubbornly hold onto cherished assumptions.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Anguishofbeing:
And even this would be too far out for your dumbass.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Anguishofbeing:
main concern is seeing Africans
(at home and abroad) as active agents in their
own affairs and not mere passive objects on the
periphery of European and Asian history and
movements.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Anguishofbeing:
Again, your label someone with a term yet you don't know what they meant by it, and how their usage is corroborated by modern science. Amazing!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Anguishofbeing:
Read works by Molefi Asante.

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Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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You need to be clear and specific, and lay off with your big mouth, or this will be my last response in your little thread.

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Yeah, you can call that a cop out to ‘’save face’’ too.

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I will if you do.

quote:

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maybe if you just stare hard enough.

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quote:

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You’ve shown what your intentions are, you don’t demonstrate nothing, you just ask til you find flaws to ridicule, yet when questions are posed to you, you refer to other places. Don’t waste my time, you little pest.

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Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by alTakruri:
I find it amazing even amusing that those who have
no idea what Afrocentricity is continue adhering to
what the white media has redefined it to be rather
than investing a little time to actually see what
Afrocentricity is according to the one who originally
defined this political philosophy and without his
body of work the white media would have no such
term as Afrocentrism to weep and moan about, for
make no mistake, before Asante the white media had
no such crusade.

Blacks and anyone else who say otherwise are just
buying a book, a Eurocentric book that they prefer.

---

Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

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In the late l970s Molefi Kete Asante began speaking of the need for an Afrocentric orientation to data. By l980 he had published a book, Afrocentricity: The Theory of Social Change, which launched the first full discussion of the concept. Although the word existed before Asante’s book and had been used by many people, including Asante in the l970s, and Kwame Nkrumah in the l960s, the intellectual idea did not have substance as a philosophical concept until l980

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Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

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There are five general characteristics of the Afrocentric Method

1. The Afrocentric method considers that no phenomena can be apprehended adequately without locating it first. A phenom must be studied and analyzed in relationship to psychological time and space. It must always be located. This is the only way to investigate the complex interrelationships of science and art, design and execution, creation and maintenance, generation and tradition, and other areas bypassed by theory.
2. The Afrocentric method considers phenomena to be diverse, dynamic, and in motion and therefore it is necessary for a person to accurately note and record the location of phenomena even in the midst of fluctuations. This means that the investigator must know where he or she is standing in the process.
3. The Afrocentric method is a form of cultural criticism that examines etymological uses of words and terms in order to know the source of an author’s location. This allows us to intersect ideas with actions and actions with ideas on the basis of what is pejorative and ineffective and what is creative and transformative at the political and economic levels.
4. The Afrocentric method seeks to uncover the masks behind the rhetoric of power, privilege, and position in order to establish how principal myths create place. The method enthrones critical reflection that reveals the perception of monolithic power as nothing but the projection of a cadre of adventurers.
5. The Afrocentric method locates the imaginative structure of a system of economics, bureau of politics, policy of government, expression of cultural form in the attitude, direction, and language of the phenom, be it text, institution, personality, interaction, or event.

---

Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Just call me Jari:

quote:

---

Originally posted by alTakruri:
I find it amazing even amusing that those who have
no idea what Afrocentricity is continue adhering to
what the white media has redefined it to be rather
than investing a little time to actually see what
Afrocentricity is according to the one who originally
defined this political philosophy and without his
body of work the white media would have no such
term as Afrocentrism to weep and moan about, for
make no mistake, before Asante the white media had
no such crusade.

Blacks and anyone else who say otherwise are just
buying a book, a Eurocentric book that they prefer.

---

Here how about this, How has the "White" Media Redefined afrocentrism, please take to note Clydes arguments PREDATE Asante's work, so what is it that the White Media has done to afrocentrism that is False.

As far as I can tell we are talking about Afrocentrics claiming Diffusionist I.E NON African Cultures, but I get the feeling you are talking about something else so please if you can elaborate.

I have some examples of my arguments but I will wait for Takruri or Anguish to respond.

---

Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by alTakruri:
How simple it would be to reference Asante's own
website instead of relying on biased polemics of
his detractors but for the "follow fashion" set that
idea never flew past their mind.

quote:

---

In the late l970s Molefi Kete Asante began speaking of the need for an Afrocentric orientation to data. By l980 he had published a book, Afrocentricity: The Theory of Social Change, which launched the first full discussion of the concept. Although the word existed before Asante’s book and had been used by many people, including Asante in the l970s, and Kwame Nkrumah in the l960s, the intellectual idea did not have substance as a philosophical concept until l980

---

Now go examine Nkrumah's or Hansberry's or any
others' use of the term to see if it matches the
nonsense the white media has projected.

Still feel the white media invented the term to
mean "black sloppy scholarship?" Go read the
New York Times review of books on Van Sertima's
They Came Before Columbus (and note in later
years he constantly had to correct people who
labeled him an Afrocentric). Do you see that
white medium using the term Afrocentrism in
their hyper-criticism of the book? Why is that?
Could it be because Asante's groundbreaking work
Afrocentricity had not yet been published?

---

Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by anguishofbeing:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Just call me Jari:

quote:

---

Originally posted by alTakruri:
I find it amazing even amusing that those who have
no idea what Afrocentricity is continue adhering to
what the white media has redefined it to be rather
than investing a little time to actually see what
Afrocentricity is according to the one who originally
defined this political philosophy and without his
body of work the white media would have no such
term as Afrocentrism to weep and moan about, for
make no mistake, before Asante the white media had
no such crusade.

Blacks and anyone else who say otherwise are just
buying a book, a Eurocentric book that they prefer.

---

Here how about this, How has the "White" Media Redefined afrocentrism, please take to note Clydes arguments PREDATE Asante's work, so what is it that the White Media has done to afrocentrism that is False.

As far as I can tell we are talking about Afrocentrics claiming Diffusionist I.E NON African Cultures, but I get the feeling you are talking about something else so please if you can elaborate.

I have some examples of my arguments but I will wait for Takruri or Anguish to respond.

---

I can understand why great jew can come off as condescending sometimes when he just drops sources and tell you kids to go read. I mean why waste time on a chase when you could read the scholars cited and compare it with the caricature that is paraded in the media? Do you really want to learn or just argue?

---

Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

---

Afrocentric Philosophy


The philosophy of Afrocentricity as expounded by Molefi Kete Asante and Ama Mazama, central figures of the Temple School, is a way of answering all cultural, economic, political, and social questions related to African people from a centered position. There are other Afrocentric ideas as well but these are the ones propounded in texts by Professors Asante, Mazama, and the late C. Tsehloane Keto. Indeed, Afrocentricity cannot be reconciled to any hegemonic or idealistic philosophy. It is opposed to radical individualism as expressed in the postmodern school. But it is also opposed to spookism, confusion, and superstition. As example of the differences between the methods of Afrocentricity and postmodernism, consider the following question, “Why have Africans been shut out of global development?”

The postmodernist would begin by saying that there is no such thing as “Africans” because there are many different types of Africans and all Africans are not equal. The postmodernist would go on to say that if there were Africans and if the conditions were as described by the querist then the answer would be that Africans had not fully developed their own capacities in relationship to the global economy and therefore they are outside of the normal development patterns of the world economy. On the other hand, the Afrocentrist does not question the fact that there is a collective sense of Africanity revealed in the common experiences of the African world. The Afrocentrist would look to the questions of location, control of the hegemonic global economy, marginalization, and power positions as keys to understand the underdevelopment of African people.

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Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by alTakruri:
Without knowing the philosophy or those who are
recognized as its practioners by those who actually
follow the philosophy the white media has projected
Afrocentrism as any idea a black has that doesn't
conform to the white standard and deceptively
focusing in on the most fringe concepts of blacks
outside of bona fide Afrocentricity as its true
representatives which the black "follow fashion"
then accepts as gospel without exercising their
own minds or bothering to read any works by either
Asante or any other Afrocentricity defined Afrocentric.

---

Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

---

Africa's influence on ancient Greece, the oldest European civilization, was profound and significant in art, architecture, astronomy, medicine, geometry, mathematics, law, politics, and religion. Yet there has been a furious campaign to discredit African influence and to claim a miraculous birth for Western civilization. A number of books and articles by white and some black conservatives seek to disprove the Egyptian influence on Greece.

. . . .

Afrocentricity seeks to discover African agency in every situation. Who are we? What did we do? Where did we travel? What is our role in geometry? How do we as a people function in this or that contemporary situation? But the Afrocentrist does not advance African particularity as universal. This is its essential difference from Eurocentricity which is advanced in the United States and other places as if the particular experiences of Europeans is universal. This imposition is ethnocentric and often racist. Afrocentricity advances the view that it is possible for a pluralism of cultures to exist without hierarchy but this demands cultural equality and respect.

. . . .

Professor Lefkowitz has offered the public a pablum history which ignores or distorts the substantial evidence of African influence on Greece in the ancient writings of Aetius, Strabo, Plato, Homer, Herodotus, Diogenes, Plutarch, and Diodorus Siculus. A reader of Lefkowitz' book must decide if she or he is going to believe those who wrote during the period or someone who writes today. History teaches us that a person is more likely to distort an event the farther away from it she happens to be. If you have a choice, go with the people who saw the ancient Egyptians and wrote about what they saw.

. . . .

They attack insignificant or trivial issues to obscure the main points.

Professor Lefkowitz has three main axes to grind in her book. The first is that a student told her that she believed Socrates was black.
...
The main point made by Afrocentrists is that Greece owes a substantial debt to Egypt and that Egypt was anterior to Greece and should be considered a major contributor to our current knowledge. I think I can say without a doubt that Afrocentrists do not spend time arguing that either Socrates or Cleopatra were black. I have never seen these ideas written by an Afrocentrist nor have I heard them discussed in any Afrocentric intellectual forums. Professor Lefkowitz provides us with a hearsay incident which she probably reports accurately. It is not an Afrocentric argument.

---

Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by alTakruri:
One of biggest blunders commonly made by the Afro
name callers is falling for ruses like the ancient
Greeks were black which has nothing in the least to
do with Afrocentricity or its position that ancient
Greece was influenced by Africans not majority
populated by Africans or that all ancient Greece's
star personalities were black. Those ideas are
Afro-eccentric not Afrocentricity.

quote:

---

Africa's influence on ancient Greece, the oldest European civilization, was profound and significant in art, architecture, astronomy, medicine, geometry, mathematics, law, politics, and religion. Yet there has been a furious campaign to discredit African influence and to claim a miraculous birth for Western civilization. A number of books and articles by white and some black conservatives seek to disprove the Egyptian influence on Greece.

. . . .

Afrocentricity seeks to discover African agency in every situation. Who are we? What did we do? Where did we travel? What is our role in geometry? How do we as a people function in this or that contemporary situation? But the Afrocentrist does not advance African particularity as universal. This is its essential difference from Eurocentricity which is advanced in the United States and other places as if the particular experiences of Europeans is universal. This imposition is ethnocentric and often racist. Afrocentricity advances the view that it is possible for a pluralism of cultures to exist without hierarchy but this demands cultural equality and respect.

. . . .

Professor Lefkowitz has offered the public a pablum history which ignores or distorts the substantial evidence of African influence on Greece in the ancient writings of Aetius, Strabo, Plato, Homer, Herodotus, Diogenes, Plutarch, and Diodorus Siculus. A reader of Lefkowitz' book must decide if she or he is going to believe those who wrote during the period or someone who writes today. History teaches us that a person is more likely to distort an event the farther away from it she happens to be. If you have a choice, go with the people who saw the ancient Egyptians and wrote about what they saw.

. . . .

They attack insignificant or trivial issues to obscure the main points.

Professor Lefkowitz has three main axes to grind in her book. The first is that a student told her that she believed Socrates was black[b].
...
The main point made by Afrocentrists is that Greece owes a substantial debt to Egypt and that Egypt was anterior to Greece and should be considered a major contributor to our current knowledge. I think I can say without a doubt that [b]Afrocentrists do not spend time arguing that either Socrates or Cleopatra were black. I have never seen these ideas written by an Afrocentrist nor have I heard them discussed in any Afrocentric intellectual forums. Professor Lefkowitz provides us with a hearsay incident which she probably reports accurately. It is not an Afrocentric argument.

---

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Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by anguishofbeing:
On the one hand you argue for a postmodern deconstruction of the term and its shifting meanings (i.e. relativism) but then you want to fix the meaning for Afrocentricity (i.e. essentialism) by identifying its "characteristics" wanting to make it synonymous with sloppy scholarship, blind faith and claims of "unfalsifiablility".

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by anguishofbeing:
If you stare long enough into the void it stares back at you! LOL From postmodern to existentialism. HAHAHAH
You have no argument boy.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by anguishofbeing:
LOL How long have you been on ES? Do you think I am going to chase your dumbass all day on baits?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by anguishofbeing:
It was you who made specific claims about a movement not following the scientific method and those whom you identify as being a part of this movement as well as its alleged essential characteristics. Of course this is after you argued in favor of postmodern relativism: floating signifiers and unstable meanings... LOLOLOL

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Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

---

Professor Lefkowitz makes a statement on page 1 of her book that "In American universities today not everyone knows what extreme Afrocentists are doing in their classrooms. Or even if they do know, they choose not to ask questions." We are off to a bad start. Who are these extreme Afrocentrists? She does not provide us with one example of something that an extreme Afrocentrist is teaching in a classroom. Not one. But already the reader is inclined to believe that something exists where nothing exists. No matter how passionate, assertion is not evidence. What Afrocentrists do teach is that you cannot begin the discussion of world history with the Greeks. Creating clouds of suspicion about scholarly colleagues in order to support a racial mythology developed over the past centuries to accompany European enslavement of Africans, imperialism, and exploitation will not dissipate the fact of Greece's debt to Africa.

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Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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This is hardly defining something to the point where I’ve made it into something that’s static

---

Disingenuous, backtracking, retreating. You did argue for an essential/static meaning. You said Mike and Clyde are about as Afrocentric as it gets. You don't know the implications of that quote do you? which is prob. why you then argued the opposite. lol

quote:

---

other sciences blunder as well

---

So you see Afrocentricity as a science now?

quote:

---

Go back, read whether I said it or whether it happened to be in the quote, also check if the ‘’floating signifiers’’ part was bolded or not.

---

So you are not arguing for postmodern free floating signifiers now? I thought you took exception to me interpreting you as "defining something to the point where I’ve made it into something that’s static".... I'm confused, really.

quote:

---

Clearly I quoted the bit to make a point about how Asantes additions and exclusions are not necessarily representative for Afro-centrism as a whole

---

quote:

---

AGAIN:

Can you give a detailed description of what Afrocentrism entails, if it not includes the notions I mentioned?

Can you show me how WEB Dubois used it, what he meant with it, and how his usage is corroborated my modern science?

Can you show me **HOW** and on what areas of research Afrocentrists, according to your use of the word, used the empirical method to arrive at their conclusions, and what these conclusions were?

---

Each time you spam this you admit ignornace and unwillingness to learn and be open.

Note: when you are making claims about X scholar, you are to quote from X scholar to back whatever claims you make of X scholar.

quote:

---

I dare any of the Afro-name callers here to actually read works like
1). The history of Africa: the quest for eternal harmony or
2). Culture and customs of Egypt or
3). Classical Africa
all written by Molefi Kete Asante, the premier Afrocentric authority,
and cite anything even remotely close to the stuff you label as Afrocentrism.

---

Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anguishofbeing:
Disingenuous, backtracking, retreating. You did argue for an essential/static meaning. You said Mike and Clyde are about as Afrocentric as it gets. You don't know the implications of that quote do you? which is prob. why you then argued the opposite. Lol

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anguishofbeing:
So you see Afrocentricity as a science now?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anguishofbeing:
So you are not arguing for postmodern free floating signifiers now? I thought you took exception to me interpreting you as "defining something to the point where I’ve made it into something that’s static".... I'm confused, really.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anguishofbeing:
Each time you spam this you admit ignornace and unwillingness to learn and be open.

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Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

you agreed with my position that the group of scholars in question, whether they admitted to being Afrocentrists or not, can all be grouped by having in common, at least some variations of the same incorrect claims/themes

---

quote:

---

Stop putting words in my mouth.

---

Nobody putting words in your mouth. You said it, you posted others saying it, but now you want to distance yourself from it. Typical of a saving face loser.

* Examples of fixed meanings for the term:

"they (Mike and Clyde) are about as Afrocentric as it gets"

* Examples of postmodern free floating signifiers and unstable meanings:

"Afrocentrism is not the property of Asante, that he or anyone else can dictate that their interpretation should be the correct one. "

^ I would say that you are clueless as to the implications of the above contradictions, but I know you are not; you're just saving face.

quote:

---

I said YOU admitted to blunders by Afrocentrists, by saying other scientific disciplines blunder as well

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Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

---

Afrocentrists ... can all be grouped by having in common, at least some variations of the same incorrect claims/themes

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Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by alTakruri:
if this is supposed to be the working definition of Afrocentricity...

---

Thats his wishful definition of Afrocentricity... when he's not advancing postmodern notions of free floating signifiers and unstable meanings.

quote:

---

So if this is a personal clash between two posters then
I needn't continue bringing quotes from authentic sources
of Afrocentricity and its my bad I didn't know what was
going on, otherwise I hope I succeeded in bringing light
to those who wanted to know the facts about what constitutes
Afrocentricity instead of all this pseudo and fringe stuff
assumed to be valid Afrocentrism which I doubt any Africana
or African Studies department in any university teaches.

---

Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Confirming Truth:
It does not matter what Afrocentricity had originally meant. The concept has developed into something new. And that is what is important, its current meaning.

---

Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

Afrocentrism has always recognized that Mesopotamian and even Greecian civilization was founded by Africans. This is made clear in Asante's book: Egypt vs Africa.



I wrote a chapter in the book which discusses the genetic model in relation to African civilizations in Eurasia and the Americas.

.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
Note that Jari has a point about ''Africa centric'' vs ''black centric'', but most Afro-centrics don't make that distinction. They group ALL black peoples together and applaud their accomplishments as a triumph for the entire ''black race'', which is, among other things, characteristic of Afrocentrism.

I make this distinction because Early Afrocentrics did not claim Diffusionist claims. They Claimed mainly Nubia and the closest to diffusion was Egypt Via Nubia until Diop started the Trend to claim Egypt. However as far as I can tell even Diop was not a Diffusionist "Black-Centric Afrocentrist, as he claimed the Moors were not black etc.

Anguish V. Kalonji-Anguish Like me Im sure Kalonji is young, the Earliest he can probably name is Diop. Now I know about some Early African Americans who worked with Nubia but I can't recall their name sorry. Anyway I think that Clyde is pretty much Co-Signing Kalonji if you read what Clyde is claiming then Kalonji is right that afrocentrism is not African centered.

Afrocentricity's main concern is seeing Africans
(at home and abroad) as active agents in their
own affairs and not mere passive objects on the
periphery of European and Asian history and
movements.

If this is true then Clyde's scholarship is pretty much saying you are a liar. Greece and Mesopotamia is NOT Africa, Hence the name Afro-Centricity is misleading, the name should be BLACK centric if Clyde is correct, as I said there is no unified thought on Afrocentrics, in one hand you have people like Takruri who I consider more Authentic in their apporach to Afrocentrism(Great Jew is the only poster who has deep understanding on Egypt, Nubia, West African, Berber and a few cultures in the Levant) compared to Black Centrics like Clyde who claim Black Vikings and Black Chinese and Black Greeks etc. Both Claim they are the original...

It simply comes down to the reactionary origin of Afrocentrism to Eurocentric Dogma..

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Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged |