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Joe Roganjosh
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But what's this all about?

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What are these men about?

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the lioness,
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alTakruri
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Participants in a dance festival before the dry season where younger males in full
plummage vie for female votes as most typical of Bororo norms of Fulani masculinity.

And for any who think they're sissies you should see their chest scars from the sharo!

quote:
Originally posted by hottoddi:
But what's this all about?


What are these men about?


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alTakruri
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Joe Roganjosh
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Interesting how perception can colour things.

When I look at the pics I can't help but think of Miss J from America's Next Top Model. But then again, perhaps just 50 years ago, the word "gay" did not automatically mean a homosexual.

--------------------
you will reap all that you sow with me good and bad and ugly!

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Mike111
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^The male and masculinity: as cloddish, brutish and lacking in grace and beauty is a European concept. That is why you automatically associate male beauty with homosexuality.
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Joe Roganjosh
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Rubbish, it is the extensive make-up that people would automatically associate with homosexuality.

Absolutely nothing to do with male beauty.

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the lioness,
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 -

The architrave contains two horizontal inscriptions, both starting from the middle and reading either left or right. The right-hand side reads : "Supervisor of the manicurists of the palace, the King's administrator, Niankhkhnum".

_______________________________________________

Homosexuality in “Traditional” Sub-Saharan Africa and Contemporary .South Africa

hit "view" on upper left, then zoom in once or twice

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The Explorer
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quote:
Originally posted by alTakruri:

Participants in a dance festival

Correct. "People" who associate this with "being less than male" are not Africans.
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Hammer
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Most of the blacks who ow live in Egypt migrated down river from Sudan after the era of Pharonic egypt. When Hawass did his Hatcepsut special last year all of his characters were caucasians.
Much like Tut, the descendants of european farmers.

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Joe Roganjosh
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quote:
Originally posted by The Explorer:
quote:
Originally posted by alTakruri:

Participants in a dance festival

Correct. "People" who associate this with "being less than male" are not Africans.
You mean they are not of that particular culture.

I understand "homophobia" itself comes from Western societies who practice homosexuality the most, but are you saying for sure there are no groups of authentic Africans who might still find it wiered for men to wear such heavy makeup (i.e. not mask) ?

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Apocalypse
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^al Takruri explained that it's worn for a particular festival. Would you ask the same question about men is the west who make up their faces for Mardi Gras or halloween? You cetainly wouldn't feel wierded out.
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Joe Roganjosh
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^ Cool out brethren. It just occured to me that a mask doesn't have to be put on, it can also be painted on.

I'm just trying to figure out why they look like how women look when they're trying to get a man's attention, that's all. However, they are actually trying to get women's attention. If the women in the culture are used to that, I don't see a darn thing wrong with it.

And even if they were gay, where is the crime? I just like to be knowledgable about what I'm looking at so I don't go speculating as I am very prone to.

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The Explorer
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quote:
Originally posted by hottoddi:

You mean they are not of that particular culture.

I understand "homophobia" itself comes from Western societies who practice homosexuality the most, but are you saying for sure there are no groups of authentic Africans who might still find it wiered for men to wear such heavy makeup (i.e. not mask) ?

I'm saying Africans who are familiar with their fellow Africans, which in this case are Fula, will not mistake them for "homosexuality". "Manhood" is decided face-to-face and on a fist-to-fist basis, if you know what I mean. These folks may wear make up for festive purposes, but don't let that fool you about their "manhood". But don't take my word for it; go over there and accuse one of these folks of being less than man, and test their reaction.
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Joe Roganjosh
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^ LMAO You think I don't know my own country people. Isn't there a reason why the Nigerian Notherners dominate the country? They have a strong will (Hausa/Fulani folks), that's for sure.

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you will reap all that you sow with me good and bad and ugly!

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The Explorer
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Well, can we safely say you don't know the subjects of your thread: the Fula?

Ps: They are not restricted to one country either.

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Joe Roganjosh
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I know for a fact the Fulani are not in Nigeria alone. They are a nomadic people spread all across West Africa and probably the North and elsewhere as well.

I don't have much knowledge on them (I probably have as much knowledge on them as I have about my own people) but I know "them" very well as individuals/friends. All my life.

--------------------
you will reap all that you sow with me good and bad and ugly!

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alTakruri
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Then why didn't you ask them? A very well known
friend wouldn't be offended if asked about any
cultural accouterments of their kith and kin and
could give an extensive face to face explanation.
Admittedly many Fulani look askance at Bororo ways
and may associate them with adultery, even incest,
but not sodomy.

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Joe Roganjosh
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^ Good topic to chew chat over I guess.
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alTakruri
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Agreed. And how many African peoples allow their
males to participate in the greulling sharo ritual?
Yaake, like sharo, is all about masculine endurance
not transexuality.

quote:
Originally posted by The Explorer:
quote:
Originally posted by alTakruri:

Participants in a dance festival

Correct. "People" who associate this with "being less than male" are not Africans.

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xyyman
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I was staying clear of this topic but. . .yeah a guy dressed like this at Mardi Gras will be taken as queer.

There is a difference between face painting and men made up to look like women.

No dis-respect to Africans on the board.


quote:
Originally posted by Apocalypse:
^al Takruri explained that it's worn for a particular festival. Would you ask the same question about men is the west who make up their faces for Mardi Gras or halloween? You cetainly wouldn't feel wierded out.


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Apocalypse
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xyyman wrote
quote:
I was staying clear of this topic but. . .yeah a guy dressed like this at Mardi Gras will be taken as queer.

There is a difference between face painting and men made up to look like women.

No dis-respect to Africans on the board.


I've never known any woman who puts on makeup by applying yellow piant all over her face and a white streak down the middle.
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fellati achawi
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quote:
I'm saying Africans who are familiar with their fellow Africans, which in this case are Fula, will not mistake them for "homosexuality". "Manhood" is decided face-to-face and on a fist-to-fist basis, if you know what I mean. These folks may wear make up for festive purposes, but don't let that fool you about their "manhood". But don't take my word for it; go over there and accuse one of these folks of being less than man, and test their reaction.
that is very true with all the incidents ive seen involving Africans and someone's notion of them being gay turned out something horrible. I cosign the statement

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لا اله الا الله و محمد الرسول الله

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alTakruri
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This is why I posted photos of the guys and the
gals participating in the yaake. The males are
obviously not made up to look like females as
even a cursory examination of their faces
clearly show.

Anyway Bororo don't give a cow flop what anyone
may think about them. They would judge you as
kaado kordo.

When you can succeed at sharo come back and call gay.

 -
 -

quote:
Originally posted by xyyman:
I was staying clear of this topic but. . .yeah a guy dressed like this at Mardi Gras will be taken as queer.

There is a difference between face painting and men made up to look like women.

No dis-respect to Africans on the board.


quote:
Originally posted by Apocalypse:
^al Takruri explained that it's worn for a particular festival. Would you ask the same question about men is the west who make up their faces for Mardi Gras or halloween? You cetainly wouldn't feel wierded out.



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alTakruri
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Here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dm1tN3SmDWs&feature=player_embedded
maybe this will help understanding
(despite sometimes bad translation)
view a few other Bororo vids too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVaShWV79PU

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Joe Roganjosh
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The videos contradict themselves. First one says women can choose, at the paegent, to move on with another man while the second video says married women cannot elect.

So what is it, can married women in the Wodaabe tradition elect to move on at these 7 day paegents or not?

Either way, I think the tradition is fine. My question is, who gets to keep the children if a wife decides to move on with a man from another clan/group? Things can get nasty at that point.

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xyyman
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interesting vids. No gayness here. Not sure they want anything with me though. Hah!

quote:
Originally posted by alTakruri:
Here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dm1tN3SmDWs&feature=player_embedded
maybe this will help understanding
(despite sometimes bad translation)
view a few other Bororo vids too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVaShWV79PU


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Swenet
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Absolutely nothing about these Fulani men strikes me as gay or feminine. Similar facial decoration occurs in many other African ethnic groups. You can't just use your western lens of viewing the world and oppose them on other cultures that aren't western.
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Joe Roganjosh
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Guys, Honestly. Nobody thinks Fulanis are gay. But if you have to keep saying they're not... [Big Grin]

--------------------
you will reap all that you sow with me good and bad and ugly!

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Masonic Rebel
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Hammer

quote:
When Hawass did his Hatcepsut special last year all of his characters were caucasians. Much like Tut, the descendants of european farmers."
Yup that Hawass is a real scholar LMFO ^

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quote:
“For 18 centuries, [the Jews] were dispersed throughout the world. They went to America and took control of its economy. They have a plan. Although they are few in number, they control the entire world.”
According to Hawass Jews also hate Palestinian children and the elderly


quote:
The concept of killing women, children and elderly people… seems to run in the blood of the Jews of Palestine” and that “the only thing that the Jews have learned from history is methods of tyranny and torment – so much so that they have become artists in this field.”
Ancient Egypt has nothing to do with "Caucasians" don't ruin the thread
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xyyman
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Nnotice we were ignoring his idiotic statement. Please continue to do that until he has something worthy of replying to. Leave that to DJ.

European farmers!! The fugker is trying to mess with us.

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Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming

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alTakruri
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Young girls electing the winner of a yaake or a
gerewol are unmarried and not the married women
who are abandoning their husbands for a new one.

quote:
Originally posted by hottoddi:
The videos contradict themselves. First one says women can choose, at the paegent, to move on with another man while the second video says married women cannot elect.

So what is it, can married women in the Wodaabe tradition elect to move on at these 7 day paegents or not?

Either way, I think the tradition is fine. My question is, who gets to keep the children if a wife decides to move on with a man from another clan/group? Things can get nasty at that point.


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dana marniche
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quote:
Originally posted by hottoddi:
Interesting how perception can colour things.

When I look at the pics I can't help but think of Miss J from America's Next Top Model. But then again, perhaps just 50 years ago, the word "gay" did not automatically mean a homosexual.

This is a product of your cultural associations and ideas about sexuality. One shouldn't engage in projection when dealing with other societies.
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