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AGÜEYBANÁ II (Mind718)
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Wondering what the multi-regionlists will have to say about this...still think you're Neanderthal Mathilda?

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Brain development after birth differs between Neanderthals and modern humans

Philipp Gunz1, §, , , Simon Neubauer1, §, Bruno Maureille2 and Jean-Jacques Hublin1


Summary

Neanderthals had brain sizes comparable to modern humans, but their brain cases were elongated and not globular as in Homo sapiens[1,2]. It has, therefore, been suggested that modern humans and Neanderthals reached large brain sizes along different evolutionary pathways [2]. Here, we assess when during development these adult differences emerge. This is critical for understanding whether differences in the pattern of brain development might underlie potential cognitive differences between these two closely related groups. Previous comparisons of Neanderthal and modern human cranial development have shown that many morphological characteristics separating these two groups are already established at the time of birth [3,4,5], and that the subsequent developmental patterns of the face are similar, though not identical [6]. Here, we show that a globularization phase seen in the neurocranial development of modern humans after birth is absent from Neanderthals.

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AGÜEYBANÁ II (Mind718)
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Brains of Neanderthals and Modern Humans Developed Differently

(Nov. 9, 2010) — Researchers at the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Leipzig, Germany have documented species differences in the pattern of brain development after birth that are likely to contribute to cognitive differences between modern humans and Neanderthals.

Whether cognitive differences exist between modern humans and Neanderthals is the subject of contentious disputes in anthropology and archaeology. Because the brain size range of modern humans and Neanderthals overlap, many researchers previously assumed that the cognitive capabilities of these two species were similar. Among humans, however, the internal organization of the brain is more important for cognitive abilities than its absolute size is. The brain's internal organization depends on the tempo and mode of brain development.

Based on detailed measurements of internal shape changes of the braincase during individual growth, a team of scientists from the MPI has shown that these are differences in the patterns of brain development between humans and Neanderthals during a critical phase for cognitive development.

Discussions about the cognitive abilities of fossil humans usually focus on material culture (e.g. the complexity of the stone tool production process) and endocranial volumes. "The interpretation of the archaeological evidence remains controversial, and the brain-size ranges of Neanderthals and modern humans overlap," says Jean-Jacques Hublin, director of the Department of Human Evolution at the MPI-EVA in Leipzig where the research was conducted. Hublin adds, "our findings show how biological differences between modern humans and Neanderthals may be linked to behavioural differences inferred from the archaeological record."

As the brain does not fossilize, for fossil skulls, only the imprints of the brain and its surrounding structures in the bone (so called "endocasts") can be studied. The researchers used state-of-the-art statistical methods to compare shape changes of virtual endocasts extracted from computed-tomographic scans. The distinct globular shape of the braincase of adult Homo sapiens is largely the result of a brain development phase that is not present in Neanderthals.

One of the key pieces of evidence was the skull reconstruction of a Neanderthal newborn. In 1914, a team of French archaeologists had excavated the skeleton of a Neanderthal baby at the rock shelter of Le Moustier in the Dordogne. The original bones of the skeleton had been lost to science for more than 90 years, until they were rediscovered among museum collections by Bruno Maureille and the museum staff. The restored original baby bones are now on permanent display at the Musée National de Préhistoire in Les Eyzies-de-Tayac-Sireuil. The museum's director Jean-Jacques Cleyet-Merle made it possible to scan the delicate fragments using a high-resolution computed-tomographic scanner (µCT). Using computers at the Max Planck Institute's virtual reality lab in Leipzig, Philipp Gunz and Simon Neubauer then reconstructed the Neanderthal baby from the digital pieces, like in a three-dimensional jigsaw puzzle.

"When we compare the skulls of a Neanderthal and a modern human newborn, the Neanderthal's face is already larger at the time of birth. However, most shape differences of the internal braincase develop after birth," explains Gunz. Both Neanderthals and modern human neonates have elongated braincases at the time of birth, but only modern human endocasts change to a more globular shape in the first year of life. Modern humans and Neanderthals therefore reach large adult brain sizes via different developmental pathways.

In a related study, the same team of MPI researchers had previously shown that the developmental patterns of the brain were remarkably similar between chimpanzees and humans after the first year of life, but differed markedly directly after birth. "We interpret those aspects of development that are shared between modern humans, Neanderthals, and chimpanzees as conserved," explains Simon Neubauer. "This developmental pattern has probably not changed since the last common ancestor of chimpanzees and humans several million years ago." In the first year of life, modern humans, but not Neanderthals, depart from this ancestral pattern of brain development.

Establishing when the species differences between Neanderthal and modern human adults emerge during development was critical for understanding whether differences in the pattern of brain development might underlie potential cognitive differences. As the differences between modern humans and Neanderthals are most prominent in the period directly after birth, they likely have implications for the neuronal and synaptic organization of the developing brain.

The development of cognitive abilities during individual growth is linked to the maturation of the underlying wiring pattern of the brain; around the time of birth, the neural circuitry is sparse in humans, and clinical studies have linked even subtle alterations in early brain development to changes in the neural wiring patterns that affect behaviour and cognition. The connections between diverse brain regions that are established during this period in modern humans are important for higher-order social, emotional, and communication functions. It is therefore unlikely that Neanderthals saw the world as we do.

The new study shows that modern humans have a unique pattern of brain development after birth, which separates us from our closest relatives, the Neanderthals. This uniquely modern human pattern of early brain development is particularly interesting in light of the recent breakthroughs in the Neanderthal genome project. A comparison of Neanderthal and modern human genomes revealed several regions with strong evidence for positive selection within Homo sapiens, i.e. the selection occurred after the split between modern humans and Neanderthals. Three among these are likely to be critical for brain development, as they affect mental and cognitive development.

"Our findings have two important implications," says Philipp Gunz. "We have discovered differences in the patterns of brain development that might contribute to cognitive differences between modern humans and Neanderthals. Maybe more importantly, however, this discovery will tell us more about our own species than about Neanderthals; we hope that our findings will help to identify the function of some genes that show evidence for recent selection in modern humans."

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the lioness,
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white people's brain and behavior is estimated by Researchers at the Max Planck 1-4% Neanderthal.

Let's say 3%

An African American might be 12% white

divide 3% by 12%

Therefore African American's brain and behavior is .25% Neanderthal and pure Africans 0% Neanderthal.

see what science does for us?

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AGÜEYBANÁ II (Mind718)
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness:
white people's brain and behavior is estimated by Researchers at the Max Planck 1-4% Neanderthal.

You meant to say all non Africans supposedly carry 1-4% Neanderthal genes, which has no bearing on the above study which shows modern humans as a whole including "whites" to have a totally different brain development than Neanderthal. Obviously that 1-4% Neanderthal genes in non Africans has no bearing, and is negligible. Otherwise non Africans would have a similar brain development to Neanderthal, which is not the case.
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the lioness,
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you are correct in everything you said

however here on Egypt search we only have two categories of human, black and white. The rests are mixtures

Mike111 School of Picturepology

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BrandonP
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I'd like to know exactly what would be the cognitive ramifications of this developmental difference between us and Neanderthals. Exactly how would Neanderthal psychology differ from our own?
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AGÜEYBANÁ II (Mind718)
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^Well if you read any of the above, you should have noticed the following...

That most shape differences of the internal braincase develop after birth and both Neanderthal and modern humans had elongated braincases at the time of birth, but only modern human endocasts change to a more globular shape in the first year of life. The differences in the pattern of brain development between modern humans and Neanderthals are most prominent in the period directly after birth, which indicates they likely have implications for the neuronal and synaptic organization of the developing brain. Wherein clinical studies have linked even subtle alterations in early brain development to changes in the neural wiring patterns that affect behaviour and cognition. The connections between diverse brain regions that are established during this period in modern humans are important for higher-order social, emotional, and communication functions. It is therefore unlikely that Neanderthals saw the world as we do.

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Explorador
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Just more indication amongst several others, of the marked distinctions between Neanderthals and modern humans; makes me wonder if the so-called gene flow between Neanderthals and modern humans outside of Africa could not possibly have had some adverse effect on the cognitive capacity of the offspring thereof, when compared against that of modern humans. But then again, the negligible brain waves of the likes of say nonprophet or gigantic render this gene flow a very real possibility.
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NoLourve
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^ Why do you say "so-called" gene flow? Are you suggesting it's MORE than just the simple transfer of some genes?
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Explorador
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I say "so-called" gene flow, because the researchers responsible for the find, claim that there was some 1-4% Neanderthal genes in non-African folk they sampled, presumably in the atDNA gene pool. However, atDNA markers are generally less conservative than uniparental markers, and yet, there is no sign of Neanderthal contribution in the latter whatsoever. We've seen several biological indicators already, including DNA markers, that suggest that the distinctions between Neanderthals and modern humans were fairly marked. This is what makes me question not only the genetic contribution, but also how any genetic exchange between Neanderthals and modern humans would manifest into an offspring...since after all, half the genetic contribution comes from either parent, unless it is assumed all the genetic transmissions from the Neanderthal were totally of the recessive types. Otherwise, one would have to assume that the Neanderthal genetic contribution must have had some impact on the offspring [first generation offspring].

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-Just Call Me Jari-
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quote:
Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:
^Well if you read any of the above, you should have noticed the following...

That most shape differences of the internal braincase develop after birth and both Neanderthal and modern humans had elongated braincases at the time of birth, but only modern human endocasts change to a more globular shape in the first year of life. The differences in the pattern of brain development between modern humans and Neanderthals are most prominent in the period directly after birth, which indicates they likely have implications for the neuronal and synaptic organization of the developing brain. Wherein clinical studies have linked even subtle alterations in early brain development to changes in the neural wiring patterns that affect behaviour and cognition. The connections between diverse brain regions that are established during this period in modern humans are important for higher-order social, emotional, and communication functions. It is therefore unlikely that Neanderthals saw the world as we do.

So in other words despite the recent hoopla and glamorization of an intelligent Neanderthal there were still pretty much...Dumb Animals..LOL.
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Jacki Lopushonsky
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Everyone just accept your Neandertal -

For example, the African diaspora(AD)Eurasian admixture varies from 0 - 90% Eurasian(E). Take a typical value of 25% Eurasian admixture and since up to 4% of that Eurasian admixture is shared with Neandertals(N). We can calculate the Neandertal admixture in the African diaspora as in the following example -

0.25 E/AD x 0.04 N/E = 0.01 = 1% Neandertal per typical African diaspora person!!!!

Congratulations!!!!! Welcome, African diaspora, you are now part of the Neandertal Club.
[Big Grin]

 -

 -


quote:
Originally posted by the lioness:
white people's brain and behavior is estimated by Researchers at the Max Planck 1-4% Neanderthal.

Let's say 3%

An African American might be 12% white

divide 3% by 12%

Therefore African American's brain and behavior is .25% Neanderthal and pure Africans 0% Neanderthal.

see what science does for us?


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the lioness,
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^^^it must be a more Cameroonian thing
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AGÜEYBANÁ II (Mind718)
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quote:
Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
quote:
Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:
^Well if you read any of the above, you should have noticed the following...

That most shape differences of the internal braincase develop after birth and both Neanderthal and modern humans had elongated braincases at the time of birth, but only modern human endocasts change to a more globular shape in the first year of life. The differences in the pattern of brain development between modern humans and Neanderthals are most prominent in the period directly after birth, which indicates they likely have implications for the neuronal and synaptic organization of the developing brain. Wherein clinical studies have linked even subtle alterations in early brain development to changes in the neural wiring patterns that affect behaviour and cognition. The connections between diverse brain regions that are established during this period in modern humans are important for higher-order social, emotional, and communication functions. It is therefore unlikely that Neanderthals saw the world as we do.

So in other words despite the recent hoopla and glamorization of an intelligent Neanderthal there were still pretty much...Dumb Animals..LOL.
Indeed, they (Neanderthal) also most likely never made the jewelery attributed to them (not surprising given the study above showing them to be intellectually inferior to A.M.H.), nor did they age at the same rate as us. They were more similar to ancestral humanoids in this area aging quickly. Yet we still have Euro-quacks dying to be descended from the Neanderthal. [Eek!]
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lamin
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Much to do about nothing. The shape of the brain has nothing to do with cognitive abilities.

The key questions are: were the Neanderthals tool-makers? Were they able to think abstractly--as would be evident from their language(s)? Could they cave-paint?

If the answers to above are "yes", then they were able to think like humans. After all, chimps show that they can think at the levels of 2 year olds.

The article was coy about it, but the brain cases(hence the brains) of the Neanderthals were bigger than those of humans.

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AGÜEYBANÁ II (Mind718)
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quote:
Originally posted by lamin:
Much to do about nothing. The shape of the brain has nothing to do with cognitive abilities.

I'm sure you can read better than that, and you read that it said the shape of the braincase being elongated in Neanderthals and earlier ancestors of A.M.H., but global after a year of birth in all modern humans, which then shows this distinction in the cognitive process, correct?

If you did, then I don't understand why you posted such a dimwitted question.

quote:
Originally posted by lamin:
The key questions are: were the Neanderthals tool-makers? Were they able to think abstractly--as would be evident from their language(s)? Could they cave-paint?

Well lamin, according to the study posted above, the Neanderthal brain didn't develop the way ours (A.M.H.) did, they were indeed more primitive, as in more similar to chimps.


Did Neanderthal make jewellery after all?

^^^Click!


quote:
Originally posted by lamin:
If the answers to above are "yes", then they were able to think like humans.

But the answer is NO!! See above!!

quote:
Originally posted by lamin:
After all, chimps show that they can think at the levels of 2 year olds.

What do we call human adults who can only think at a level of 2 years old?

Are they then considered mentally handicapped lamin?

Can you apply a level of thinking higher than that of a two year old?

If so, then you should not respond, unless apologizing to me.

quote:
Originally posted by lamin:
The article was coy about it, but the brain cases(hence the brains) of the Neanderthals were bigger than those of humans.

Actually if you read, the point is not about the size of the brain, but the shape of the braincase of humans compared to Neanderthals, which is shown to be global and elongated respectively.
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BrandonP
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I've been learning more about the Neanderthals in my Archaeology 101 class, and from what my professor and the readings he has assigned told me, Neanderthals do seem to have been significantly less intelligent or at least less imaginative than Homo sapiens sapiens. Their tool industry shows much less variation across time and space than those of modern humans and they appear to have left little if any art whatsoever. To be fair, they appear to have had a capacity for spoken language similar to our own, but that doesn't necessarily mean their language was as complex as our own. I wouldn't go so far as to paint Neanderthals as grunting brutes, but they definitely had quite different cognition from our own.

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-Just Call Me Jari-
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^^^
No one is saying Neaderthal is a "Grunting Brute" but they showed no sign of expression which is a fundamental in Human Cognition. You do realize that Chimps are "Intelligent" as well, compared to other animals. Chimps also use tools. So where is the Chimp cave art, Chimp tomb art, etc that will eventually turn into written languages, advanced arithmatic, advanced building of shelter etc.

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Whatbox
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I'm very interested to learn to a more thorough extent precisely what they were capable of. Weapons etc. Mimicry, could they mimic us (scary, I know)? Basically, the root of my curiosity is this: some of the stuff I've seen people bring up was surprising enough that, I wonder, what's the high definition picture of or version of what happened, rather than the over-simplification that they simply became extinct upon our arrival? I know we ate them, or at least, that there is evidence of this having occured on occasion ... but still.

Not trying to cause offense at all / even in the least, but to that cause (it garnering attention / scientific research), I'm happy plenty that people in "the more mainstream races" - being more-likely to make up the majority of those who even posessed it - were gung-ho at even the possibility of sharing DNA with these (now extince .. I guess) creatures of their homelands even before actually finding out that **anyone** the world over had any, possibly because they knew most of the people to have it would be them (as well as **in the minds of them be a possible implicit factor that determined their current advantaged status as well) -- for a specific reason -- this fascination has caused an increase in attention to and celebration over what exact particular skills Neanderthal did have.

By the way, we can't just call this a Eurasian thing, people continuously forget that neanderthal's roamed territory stretched into Asia, and even a bit into Africa, which is why plenty of people in these places have it too, all though it's a lot more common in all non-African groups (as a generalization anyway -- there are those few that don't have it, or in which it hasn't yet and apparently won't be discovered in). Not to mention even if it hadn't roamed in Africa, humans are a continuum and miscegination has always happened and isn't something new.

quote:
Originally posted by lamin:
Much to do about nothing.

I wouldn't say that.

quote:
The article was coy about it, but the brain cases(hence the brains) of the Neanderthals were bigger than those of humans.
Good point, although they ranged from being bigger to being the same size, I thought.

Moreover, perhaps that was alarm and so cause to look into evolutionarily different pathways in brain development for each of the creatures to begin with, a concern for how a species with a larger brain could've utterly went extinct in competition with us on its home turf. An attempt to explain bigger brains away. Perhaps they suffered from hyper-trophy (retardently big heads).

Not to mention there was another species with abnormally large heads, I think found in South Africa.

And that we had larger heads in the past than do we have today! (Kinda scary, are we becoming like cell-phones? Will the smarties race we evolve into in the future be mini-sized up there instead of macro-sized, as we often envision? Is this a sign of us becoming more skill/habit-specialized and less overall capable in the ingenuity (building / adapting / coming up with things) and creativity departments, becoming more machine-like (well, our bodies already are like machines?

Then again, there's always the hope of what I will call right now for lack of a better term a made up one: trans-(natural)humanism, i.e. our ability to change more and more about ourselves and our offspring, we're already tapping into. With this, we can eliminate some diseases, perhaps turn more recessive to more dominant, and more dominant to more recessive traits in those who seek to do this for themselves or their children.

Even if we were completely successful in our ability to manipulate genes though, I'd be very careful in doing so.

Anyway, when they find out about Neanderthal genes that have any function it'll be more juicy & interesting (thinking in an X men nerdy sort of way).

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Whatbox
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quote:
I know we ate them, or at least, that there is evidence of this having occured on occasion ... but still.
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Speaking of eating people, or humanoid creatures being eaten by other such creatures.. Could they perhaps be responsible for tales and legends of all sorts, like the Lepricons, the bigger and uglier trolls, and the scary ogers. There've been some surprising types of skills that Neanderthal had, that have been brought up. It may be possible that people kept them around for spectacle, like the tale of "The Humpback of Notre Dame", or the like the Ancient Egyptians keeping (no offence to anyone) "pygmies" who liked to dance as dancers for entertainment -- and even today - once again no offence - for black folks and even non-black folks it's pretty entertaining to watch the kids especially hyper active (visualize this) dance shuffle and jive around at a get-together, and I mean especially little kids at that age where they look funky / funny doin those hyper-movements.

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MelaninKing
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quote:
Originally posted by lamin:
Much to do about nothing. The shape of the brain has nothing to do with cognitive abilities.

The key questions are: were the Neanderthals tool-makers? Were they able to think abstractly--as would be evident from their language(s)? Could they cave-paint?

If the answers to above are "yes", then they were able to think like humans. After all, chimps show that they can think at the levels of 2 year olds.

The article was coy about it, but the brain cases(hence the brains) of the Neanderthals were bigger than those of humans.

The study simply confirms what we already knew about the differences in wiring of the African melinated brain from those who lack sufficient melanin to complete "normal" brain routing.

Neanderthals and modern whites share this abnormal routing and both see the world differently than Blacks and other people of color.

 -

Also, they react to world stimulus differently. Almost "dead" to stimulus that shows blacks and other groups of normally wired Huemans as, alive.
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Why would anyone want to promote notions of “good” or “bad” blood more than half a century after the Nazi death camps exposed the final destination of this kind of warped racial thinking? Why would members of Indigenous Nations argue for blood purity five centuries after ferocious foreign conquerors — claiming the natural superiority of their European blood, civilization and religion — carried out the most devastating genocide the world has ever witnessed?

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Whatbox
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Boo! Mike's bullshiz on [an initially] a fairly race-arbitrary thread!

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AGÜEYBANÁ II (Mind718)
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upped...
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Adira and Marra
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quote:
Originally posted by Whatbox:
Boo! Mike's bullshiz on [an initially] a fairly race-arbitrary thread!

You're a basket case [Big Grin]
Posts: 525 | From: Terra | Registered: Oct 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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