posted
According to certain Midieval Arabic writers the Berbers were composed of 70 clans that descended from 5 major tribes which were the Masmuda, Ketama, Sanhaja Zenata and Ghomara.
One translation of Manilius tells us the Berbers of Mauretania were the fairest of all the black peoples (including the Ethiopians, Indi and Egyptians). These were the Mauri whom Jerome and other Romans classified as Ethiopians and whom Platus says were also known as "Niger" or "Nigri".
ZENATA
Tuareg of Mali belong to the of Iforas or Banu Ifren anciently known as the Ifuraces of the Laguaten Mauri a camel riding "Ethiopian" race of ancient Tripolitania in Libya. They still use the same swords menitoned by Corripus.
The "race of Guelaia" including the Bu Ifrur belonged to the Zenata as well. They were among the last remnants of eh pure Zenata in the northern Morrocan area.
the article claims the people were of the race of Guelaia
"For some strange reason" they are classified by early writers as "the black descendants of Canaan" black race of Ham. Everyone from ibn Qutaybah in the 9th century to Ibn Khaldun of the 14th claimed this. (Of course the allegory doesn't explain the color of modern black Africans Berber or otherwise.) Actually looking at these photos you can see it wasn't strange at all.
Masmuda of the Shluh and Upper Atlas are called blacks by Abu Shama and by the Iranian Nasr Khosroes 11th c. who designates the Masmuda soldiers in the Fatimid army "the black Africans" "FOR SOME STRANGE REASON".
Masmuda lined the coast of Morrroco in earlier times before the later Zenata arrival.
Modern Ghomara claim descent from the Masmuda.
Most Berbers are still the lightest of "the Ethiopian" races
Berbers in Libya
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Manilius's "lightest" of the Blacks included the Zenata once occupying Kabylia.
Zenata include Nafusa Berbers
Woman of Jebel Nafusa
SANHAJA
Sanhaja also lived in the Constantine area and Kabylia. The Tuareg of Niger now called Aulamidden (Lamtuna) are their descendants. Leo Africanus 16th c. says the Lamtuna Tuareg were descendants of the Numidians.
Tuareg woman of Niger
Tuareg man of Niger
Tuareg are the "Ethiopians" of the coasts of Libya called "Mazices" Mazazeces" or Amazegzil in Roman documents.
The Fulani are still among the inhabitants of southern Algeria today and were considered the Goddala or Warith or Waritan Sanhaja. They were also known as Taurud and probably Daridae and Dari Gaetuli. In ancient times they are called Barzufulitani in Constantine.
Woodabe Fellata or Fulani
These are all the "Mauretanians" of Manilius. Lightest of the blacks - lighter than the Egyptians and the Indi and the Ethiopians.
These then are the 5 major confederations of what were "the Berbers" of Maghreb still looking as they did to the Romans, Byzantines and later Middle Easterners.
They are the reason why there is no description of a Berber tribe before the 15th century as other than "black".
The area of the country of ancient "Cyrenaica" in modern Libya was home to Libyans, Greeks and Scythians according to the Greeks. Though the foreign invasions began with the peoples of the Sea, they have not significantly altered the phenotype of the original Berber population in Africa. Most Berber tribes still look as the above peoples do.
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posted
^ Interesting. So by "fairest" of all the black people, Manilius meant lightest in complexion. The only strange reason I'm looking for is why so many people today are deluded into thinking Berber automatically means "white". Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Here is a lovely lady from the same region.
By the way, I stumbled across this page here from Mathilda. The inaccuracies are so glaring and her lies so blatant. It's no wonder Egyptsearch has become a thorn in her side. LOLPosts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Here is a lovely lady from the same region.
By the way, I stumbled across this page here from Mathilda. The inaccuracies are so glaring and her lies so blatant. It's no wonder Egyptsearch has become a thorn in her side. LOL
Well Djehuti - what's more intriguing is the fact that European and part European people flock to the site of a old white European woman with college degree and apparently very little mental balance who thinks nothing of taking off postings off her blog and changing the color of photos on her youtube site if someone says they look African. lol!
I never visit that site, since the one time I did back a few years and saw she had the wrong dating for the Neolithic on it. I realized what I was dealing with.
The lady in the photo is placed against a white background, but in any case she like most Tuareg women in the region looks about my color. She has probably Central Asian and Eurasian genes in addition to her black African ancestry from the Sahara rooted in ancient EastAFrican migrations while I have Native American, sub-Saharan, South Asian as well as Saharan genes. Obviously I don't get my lighter than black skin color from my African ancestors of Central and Saharan Africa, and neither does she. : )
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ Interesting. So by "fairest" of all the black people, Manilius meant lightest in complexion. The only strange reason I'm looking for is why so many people today are deluded into thinking Berber automatically means "white".
Two reasons - being drawn to the sites of Neo -Nazis and pseudoanthropologists as well as wrong interpretations of genetic studies and relying modern scholars or geneticists who use inappropriate terminology for the ancient Mechtoid and Capsian populations.
Most of them neglect the written history of North African tribes and ignore the fact that modern Berbers are mainly a linguistic entity. The skeletons in the Berber tombs are African or East African. Something even the eugenicist Coon reported on.
Many of today's Berber-speakers as the old European says on her site are mainly European in blood. Something that is quite true, and which says nothing of purer Berber tribes as they were up to 500 years ago. There are no descriptions of Berbers as anything other than a dark skinned black or "Ethiopian" people who were also said to look like "the Indi" the common name for Abyssinians, Somali and south Arabians as well as people of the Indus.
The Tuareg have ancient names from coast of North Africa in Tripolitania and Mauretania including Zigritae or Kel Zigguratu, Kel Cadenit Laguatan or Imaslagha, Imakitan (Macuteni or Uakutameni) later known as Ketama, Kel Iforas and Ifuraces later called Benu Ifren, Tu Maghuri or Makhuritae (a people of Libya and Nubia) and of course Amazegzel or Mauri Mazazeces a name which in the last 200 years has been adopted by Berber-speaking nationalists. The latter were known as Ethiopians in Roman texts. I think even Herbert Wendt mentioned they were in fact the Ethiopian luxury slaves in Rome.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: According to certain Midieval Arabic writers the Berbers were composed of 70 clans that descended from 5 major tribes which were the Masmuda, Ketama, Sanhaja Zenata and Ghomara.
One translation of Manilius tells us the Berbers of Mauretania were the fairest of all the black peoples (including the Ethiopians, Indi and Egyptians). These were the Mauri whom Jerome and other Romans classified as Ethiopians and whom Platus says were also known as "Niger" or "Nigri".
ZENATA
Tuareg of Mali belong to the of Iforas or Banu Ifren anciently known as the Ifuraces of the Laguaten Mauri a camel riding "Ethiopian" race of ancient Tripolitania in Libya. They still use the same swords menitoned by Corripus.
The "race of Guelaia" including the Bu Ifrur belonged to the Zenata as well. They were among the last remnants of eh pure Zenata in the northern Morrocan area.
the article claims the people were of the race of Guelaia
"For some strange reason" they are classified by early writers as "the black descendants of Canaan" black race of Ham. Everyone from ibn Qutaybah in the 9th century to Ibn Khaldun of the 14th claimed this. (Of course the allegory doesn't explain the color of modern black Africans Berber or otherwise.) Actually looking at these photos you can see it wasn't strange at all.
Masmuda of the Shluh and Upper Atlas are called blacks by Abu Shama and by the Iranian Nasr Khosroes 11th c. who designates the Masmuda soldiers in the Fatimid army "the black Africans" "FOR SOME STRANGE REASON".
Masmuda lined the coast of Morrroco in earlier times before the later Zenata arrival.
Modern Ghomara claim descent from the Masmuda.
Most Berbers are still the lightest of "the Ethiopian" races
Berbers in Libya
Obviously "lightest" is a relative term in this case.
But I love that link you posted. I found a few more and I really like the 4:00 mark:
Thanks Doug - I have already favorited some of them to my vlog on youtube. Many of the postings, however, look more like typical modern Moroccans or Mediterraneans of course which means they are a lot more European than the early Berbers were, especially during Manilius time when Nigri was "a synonym for Mauri" (as per Platus), and most of us have already seen enough of those types all around the web.
PS - My ex a Kabyle from Souk Ahras settled by the Romans was much lighter than many of these Moroccans and Mauretanians you posted and so is our son. I tell him what his Kabyle great grandfather on his father's side believed his ancestors were - from Sicily. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
^hopefully with this, the Mulattoes and Turks will stop their ignorant posts, and accept their true place.
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The Ait Atta are a very "mixed" looking Berber people of the Central Atlas with skin color which tends to vary between the darker complexioned Berbers of the Upper Atlas, Sahara and Sahel and the very fair Berbers along the coastal regions northward. Notice, however, the women of the Ait Atta in this video are on average much lighter than the men. This probably says something about the genetic origins of the women or maternal ancestry. On the same hand one can see a lot of light face paint on the women showing the high value of fairness in complexion for women of this society.
The music in this video is undeniably and powerfully African including the screeches. It must be a very pure form of African Berber music - to say the least.
Ait Atta man
When one recalls colonial writings about how the Moroccan Berbers or "Moors" used to come down from the mountain strongholds to obtain fair-skinned concubines it is not hard to understand how much of this variety and change in appearance has come about due to the happenings last few centuries.
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It's remarkable how similar the features of the men in the two pictures above.
By the way, does anyone know about the yellowish makeup Tuareg women wear?
It reminds me of the yellowish hue Egyptian women are traditionally painted with.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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It reminds me of the yellowish hue Egyptian women are traditionally painted with.
Same here. I wonder what the symbolism behind it is? This article claims that yellow was a symbol of fertility.
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Because they look like AAs but according to western historians only "west" Africans were slaves and according to western anthropologists "west" Africans do not look like any of the above people.
Therefore, either these people are mixed or some white western historians and scientists are lying.
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posted
[qoute]^ Interesting. So by "fairest" of all the black people, Manilius meant lightest in complexion. The only strange reason I'm looking for is why so many people today are deluded into thinking Berber automatically means "white"[/quote]same reason why people think arabs are white.
quote:Because they look like AAs but according to western historians only "west" Africans were slaves and according to western anthropologists "west" Africans do not look like any of the above people.
its obvious were the slaves came from just by looking at more info from other than modern americans and doing more ground work. when i was in morocco the elders used to tell me how they stole people and sold them to the english but you wont hear this. they have to make a west african thing because the very name is their construction. songhai, mali, takrur and etc never were screaming out "West Africa". its about subjugation not teaching all the info.
-------------------- لا اله الا الله و محمد الرسول الله Posts: 495 | From: anchorage, alaska | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote: its obvious were the slaves came from just by looking at more info from other than modern americans and doing more ground work. when i was in morocco the elders used to tell me how they stole people and sold them to the english but you wont hear this. they have to make a west african thing because the very name is their construction. songhai, mali, takrur and etc never were screaming out "West Africa". its about subjugation not teaching all the info.
ausar, alTakuri, Djehuti, lamin, Sundjiata, Gruman, the Explorer, Whatbox, Wally, Ish Gebor and the rest of the peanut gallery............
will be most distressed with what you have written above.
They will howl to have you banned just as they have when I have destroyed their anti "west African" propaganda.
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quote:Originally posted by alurubenson: Interesting. So by "fairest" of all the black people, Manilius meant lightest in complexion. The only strange reason I'm looking for is why so many people today are deluded into thinking Berber automatically means "white"...
Indeed. It is all because of the all too prevalent fallacious dichotomy of "Sub-Saharan" and "North" Africa where blacks are somehow only native to the former but not the latter. The irony is that the Sahara did not always exist as there were periods when North Africa was green and fertile and many cultures now living in Sub-Sahara today were found in North Africa. It is the white and off-white lighter skinned peoples who are not native! With Europe just across the Mediterranean and Islamic invasions of fair-skinned Asiatics the ethnic makeup of North Africa today is not surprising. Even the majority of Berbers who live along the Mediterranean coasts commonly look "mulatto" which is why they are often called "n*ggers" and "monkeys" by peoples in Europe especially during football (soccer) season.
quote:same reason why people think arabs are white.
Yes. Even though Arabia is right next to Africa as well.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Northern arabia is also next door to Persia aka Iran..as well as Mesopotamia..
The proximity of the Persian Gulf to Persia is on par with that of the Gulf of Aden to Ethiopia, Yet somehow even the Northern arabs were all Blacks...
Why does'nt Alwaadberry et. al mention the Persian Gulf and its proximity to Persia like they always love to bring up the Gulf of Aden's proximity to Ethiopia..
You mean to tell me NO Indo-Europeans from the steppes did'nt set up shop in Arabia, they could defeat and conquer Noble Civilized people like the dravidians but could'nt conquer or set up shop with a Bunch of Illiterates in Arabia..LOL How Absurd.
No body in their right mind says Arabs are white except the some arabs themselves, but there were non black Arabs in Arabia, get over it...
The question should be who are the True Arabs, from past conversation Dana does'nt consider the Lighter Arabs as true Arabs.
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Baalberith
Ungodly and Satanic Entity
Member # 23079
posted
You do understand that there were Blacks underneath Arabia in Mesopotamia right? Like seriously you do understand that both parts of the Levant, Mesopotamia, and even parts of Iran was covered with Blacks. Also, I haven't seen any evidence to suggest the latter for your point of view. Not only that I think she was merely meantioning the authentic indigenous ethnic Arabians and not White skinned settlers who continued to maintain their identity and culture.
Also, all of North Arabia isn't next door to Iran, only the Northeast region. I am very interested in your desire to undermineed the guy in regards to the Arabians and what they once physically looked like, as well as modern Black Arabians. Don't get me wrong I don't think you are trying to deny these Blacks, but your really more focused on making this into a strawman argument where you think she is of the opinion that there weren't nonblacks in Arabia, after all there's a significant portion in Arabia, but I think that nonblacks were not significant enough to be the majority both White and mixed race people, although people of mixed race heritage are considered Black. Lastly, I'm of the the understanding that the main population was in the South of Arabia, not nescerally the North. Another thing, the descriptions she have given on the Ancient Arabians in general, a couple regarding North Arabians themselves seems to indicate that the majority of the population were Black.
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Baalberith
Ungodly and Satanic Entity
Member # 23079
posted
Another thing, why is it that people have a need to undermine the Black percentage in the Middle East?
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Tuareg man of Niger
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