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Djenne was a prosperous trading center as well as a university town with thousands of teachers who gave lectures and conducted research on many topics. The city produced physicians and surgeons who performed such delicate operations as the removal of cataracts from the human eye.
The city's walls and most of its buildings were constructed of clay (not mud) that was shaped into flat long bricks rounded at the ends. The sun baked bricks were set in in walls with mortar and then were rough-casted. Constructions of this material are very durable requiring only renewed rough-casting to stand for centuries and give the appearance of being cut from one huge block of stone.
The walls of the dwellings have a slight inward tilt and are windowless. After the Moorish conquest, windows with wooden shutters of an Arabian style were imported from Tombouctou where they were manufactured. Openings in the ceiling or roof admitted light and air. The highest parts of walls are adorned with triangular battlements, the entrances are pylonic as are the decorations of the façades.
The houses are two storeys, the second floor surmounted by a terrace. To form flat roofs, planks are laid across the length and width of the house and covered by branches and rushes which in turn are covered by a thin layer of earth of mud consistency. Plumbing systems of baked pipes installed in each dwelling carry away household water and latrines with perfectly constructed drainage are established on all terraces.
The Madou, or governor's mansion, was the only monumental edifice. It was destroyed to be replaced by a mosque measuring a square 183 feet by 39 feet high. Each façade of the mosque faced a cardinal point. The north and south façades displayed two rows of windows that lighted a closed gallery running around the square. A quadrangular tower imposed with steps opened onto the terrace by means of an edicule.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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The citizens of Djenne operated routine staffed businesses comprised of relatives, slaves, and free working class individuals. The firms had branches and representatives in important centers at Tombouktou.
Their warehouses were the ground floor of large houses storing * cereals (rice, millet, semolina) * honey * karita * arachides * spices * onions * indigo * kola nuts * neta flour * monkey bread fruit * lead * iron * ostrich feathers * ivory * virgin gold * civet musk * marble * antimony * native fabrics * linen * wool
Commercial fleet vessels were made of ebony or cedar made watertight by straw, tow, and clay. These craft measure 58-65' x 10 having a maximum displacement of 30 tons thus replacing a 200 camel caravan. The great merchants have their own boats while fleets carrying merchandise and passengers at fixed rates served the less wealthy. Waterproof stuff was placed in the hold and covered by the more delicate merchandise on which passengers lay or sit on their heels protected by an awning.
The market occupies a large square in the town's center intersected with paths for buyers and raised spots for sellers. Three sides are lined by shops, the fourth opening upon the mosque. Women sell food and household goods with piles of cowries beside them indicating their prices. Men sell the choicer goods at the shops in market center marked by three square posts where can be found the money changer who converts gold and silver into cowries. The butcher shop sells joints of meat which are suspended for selection and live sheep. Nearby are free furnaces for roasting purchases after buying fuel from the adjacent wood seller.
Djenne merchants settled in Tombouctou introducing baked brick housing when it was still little more than a watering place for transhumant Twareg pastors.
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This Djennerean architecture best exemplified by the towns Grand Masjid is the epitome of civics like nothing developed by any other people anywhere else in the world.
Djenné (also Dienné or Jenne) is a historically and commercially important small city in the Niger Inland Delta of central Mali. It is just west of the Bani River (the Niger River passes well to the west and north). It has an ethnically diverse population of about 12,000 (in 1987). It is famous for its mud brick (adobe) architecture, most notably the Great Mosque of Djenné which was rebuilt in 1907. In the past, Djenné was a centre of trade and learning, and has been conquered a number of times since its founding. It is the oldest known city in sub-Saharan Africa, and its historic city center was designated a World Heritage Site by UNESCO in 1988. Administratively it is part of the Mopti Region.
Djenné was founded in about 800 CE by the Bozo people at a site known as Jenné-Jeno, 1.5 km upstream. It moved its site in either 1043 or the 13th century, when the city converted to Islam. This increased its importance as a market and a base for trans-Saharan trade, soon rivalling Timbuktu.
Djenné, despite its proximity, was never part of the Mali Empire. It existed as an independent city-state protected by walls and the geography of the inland delta. According to legend, the Mali Empire attempted to conquer the city 99 times before giving up. Djenné would not be conquered until 1473 by the Songhai Empire under Sonni Ali. The siege of Djenné is said to have lasted 7 months and 7 days culminating in the death of the city's king and its capitulation. The widow of the city married Sonni Ali, and peace was restored. In 1591, Morocco conquered the city after destroying Songhai's hold in the region. By the 1600s, Djenné had become a thriving centre of trade and learning. Caravans from Djenné frequented southern trading towns like Begho, Bono Manso, and Bonduku.
The city continued to change hands several times. Djenné was part of the Segou kingdom from 1670 to 1818, Massina under the Fulani ruler Amadou Lobbo from 1818 to 1861, and the Toucouleur Empire under Umar Tall from 1861 to 1893. The French finally conquered the city that year. During this period, trade declined and the city's importance with it.
Attractions include the tomb of Tupama Djenepo, who in legend was sacrificed on the founding of the city, and the remains of Jenné-Jeno, a major city from the 3rd century BC until the 13th century.
Approximately eight hours by road from Bamako, Djenné is notable in that it becomes an island when the rivers rise at the end of the rainy season. However, problems of a different nature were reported in 2008 when it was said that Djenné was "drying up" because of a controversial dam, completed in 2007, across the Bani River at Talo, about 150 km upstream.[2] The weekly market, when buyers and sellers converge on the town from the surrounding regions, is a key tourist attraction. (wikipedia)
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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Al-Takruri You don't mind if I post some info/Images on "Sudano-Sahelian architecture style" that is not central to just Jenne but the area of Mali..??
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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I can only ask that posts to this thread come from a positive angle and build up without tearing down.
By that I mean that material is presented without all the bitching and moaning and victim complex roorag.
We can tell our own African story without always couching in countering "da y-man" rhetoric. It's about us not him.
No people tell their story by saying "contrary to what the y-man says..." Our history is not a protest against the y-man or the a-rab. Our history is our history.
I'm not aiming at you. I just had to get it off my chest. I changed the thread header to accomodate your request.
Any and all posts are welcome wherein we see beauty in ourselves and the works of our own hands in our own internal continent division's great western region, the homeland of the majority of African diasporic peoples.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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Since, I am not Muslim. I don't know the answer. Who worships at a Grand Mosque? Would Fullah, Mande and Tuareg worship together?
Northern Ghana
Burkina Faso
Ghana
Algadez, Niger
Kong, Mali
Strange, when I first saw these buildings. I felt like I have seen them before in a previous life.
Posts: 1115 | From: GOD Bless the USA | Registered: May 2006
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I might be seen as a little outspoken but my goal is just what you said. That being our history has noting to do with Arabs and Whites as a protest or a sympathy.
I also don't understand why people(esp. folks of our own race) will look down upon the Sudano-Sahelian style when key Architectural and Historical authorities just names it(The Town of Djenne and the Famous Mosque of Timbucktoo) a UNESCO World Heritage Site and candidate for the new 7 wonders of the world.
Rest assured the people who built the mosque were hardwork, creative, and just as intelligent as any other Architects in the world. They intelligently uses the material available to them and incorporated other Islamic styles.
Now for some examples of the variation of beautiful African architecture.
Mosque in Bozo, Mopti Region, Mali This mosque in Yonga Boza is typical of the mud architecture found throughout this region. Mud is used because timber is hard to find in the desert.
West African mud mosques satisfy all the standard expectations of mosque architecture -- with the qibla marked buy its mihrab, minarets, interior spaces delineated by transverse naves and aisles of columns -- while at the same time abstracting these forms that were canonized in the regions of the post-Byzantine, early Islamic Empire. Sebastian Schutyser's photographs capture and perhaps exaggerate the otherworldly quality of Mail's mosques. By extracting people and surrounding buildings from the frame the eye is drawn to the materials and forms, which adhere to what is a unique design program particularly suited to the region, but that still serves typical mosque functions of worship and gathering.
Mali's mud mosque architecture is directly related to local domestic architecture. Materials are selected both for their economy and their appropriateness for the remarkably hot climate. Earth used to create mud mortar and mud plaster, and minimal palm wood for scaffolding and roofs, as timber is a rare and costly commodity, compose the forms.
Walls are thick and tapered, to both protect the inside from the heat and support the often two story structures and the roof. During the day, the walls absorb the heat of the day that is released throughout the night, helping the interior of the mosque remain cool all day long. Some structures, for example, Djenn�'s Great Mosque, also have roof vents with ceramic caps. These caps, made by the town's women, can be removed at night to ventilate the interior spaces. Masons have integrated palm wood scaffolding into the building's construction, not as beams, but as permanent scaffolding for the workers who apply plaster annually during the spring festival to restore the mosque. The palm beams also minimize the stress that comes from the extreme temperature and humidity changes typical of the climate. Towers are often topped with a spire capped by an ostrich egg, symbolizing fertility and purity.
Sources:
Maas, Pierre. 1990. Djenne: Living Tradition. In Aramco World Magazine January-February 1990. Robert Arndt (ed). Houston: Aramco Services Company.
Snelder, Raoul. 1984. The Great Mosque at Djenne. In MIMAR 12: Architecture in Development. Singapore: Concept Media Ltd.
If Im not mistaken the First Image is actually the Mosque Below reconstructed, as is common for the Sudano-Sahelian builders and architects. the Below image is the mosque before its reconstruction, I might be wrong though(Info is rather scarce).
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Where there was no stone, clay or mud bricks (adobe) was innovated as construction material. The entire town of Djenne is done in adobe though some now use concrete -- frowned on by the World Heritage Site certifiers.
Djenne's masons want adobe to thrive and adapt to the times. Djenne's munincipal leaders want to incorporate whatever works. All want Djenne ton keep it's unique look.
Djennerean adobe houses today have sliding glass doors, tilt windows, outdoor radiators, etc., continuing traditions of adapting foreign appurtenances to local architectural design just as they have always done since the heydays of transSaharan camel caravan trade.
@ RWB+C Whoever hears the adhan and doesn't consider the masjid as heretical would go and worship inside it.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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The interior hall way of the Mosque of Jenne can't find anything on the inner sanctum. The Tomb of Askia in the town of Gao, Mali marks Islamic architecture in sub-Saharan West Africa's beginning. It is situated in one of the flourishing cities of the Sudanese caravan route. Located near the Niger River, the city of Gao became the capital city of the Songhay (Songhai) Empire upon its founding in 1493 by Askia Mohammed. The Songhay people had already converted to Islam by the twelfth century as attested to inscribed tombstones in kufic script that can be found around the tomb. However, not until Askia Mohammed was appointed Caliph of the lands of the Tekrour in 1497 was Islam confirmed the official religion. Askia Mohammed attested to an increased orthodoxy by building mosques and inviting Muslim scholars to Gao, while expanding the Songhay Empire into Mali, Niger and Nigeria. After his death in 1529 he was supposedly interred in the tomb, which is the largest historic architectural monument in West Africa and in local memory Askia lives on as an important mythological hero. The Tomb of Askia is the central commanding feature of the Great Mosque of Gao. This layout pays homage to the Saharan tradition of prominent ancestral tumuli or tomb mounds erected over graves that date to before 1,000 BC. This large feature was incorporated into a new mosque building tradition in which the mosque itself becomes a combination of tomb, minaret and sacred enclosure. http://archnet.org/library/sites/one-site.jsp?site_id=2541 There is something vaguely Nile valleyesque about this structure. If one was to build structures on the Moon today the most effective and cost efficient way would be to make use of all that sand ie. Adobe style so nuff respect to ancient Sahelian civil engineers for finding local solution for local problems.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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alTakruri Quote: Suleiman says: Merhaba Mikey, my ashamed of Africa obsessed with Ottomans wannabe a Persian pal. I'm your Boogeyman, that's what I am. I'm here to do whatever fright I can, boo!
So, calling a "Mud Hut" a "Mud Hut" makes me a wannabe?
I would argue that it is simply telling the truth.
As to being designated a World Heritage Site by UNESCO. Well they do like to be "Inclusive".
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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^What you invite is "Condescension" i.e. those poor Negroes simply "Can't" do any better. Lets make a fuss over their Mud Huts to make them feel good about themselves - BULLSH1T!
I would argue that they simply didn't feel the need to do better. They had low need, and low expectations for themselves, and lived like it.
As I remember, someone posted a study that showed the best educated people in Europe, relative to population, were Africans - see what feeling the "Need" to excel does to a person?
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^Yes, I know, that's why you are wallowing in anguish. Post some of your coloring books, I promise to praise that you could stay within the lines.
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Mike111 you are obviously Ignorant of Architecture and should keep your mouth shut on such matters. The Reason why the Sahelian Masons and architects build out of Mud is because that is the material avaialiable to them. There were Africans in Ethiopia, Sudan, Swahili, Congo, etc. that built out of Stone because stone was availiable to them. To build out of stone would bankrupt the regions as it would require the architect and builders to transport stone across the desert.
An Arial view of Djenne(If anyone has a Newer version of Photoshop yall can put meld the images together I have an older(2003) version)
So Mike you see any stone quarries, how should the Architects of Djenne and Timbuctoo(Not Mali and the Mauritanians who had stone quarries and used them as in the case of Tilchtt Walata) get stone so they can please you and build building like the Whites and Arabs you love so,...How???
Man please, you are a washed up fraud fake, the builders and designers of the Adobe City of Djenne and Timbuctoo have done more for Africa than you ever will.
And Unesco designated Djenne and Timbuctoo World Heritage because the Great Mosque is the largest Adobe structure in the world.
Sorry Altakruri, not trying to ruin the tread, I just cant stand people trying to judge things they have no authority to judge. Im not wasting any more posts on the Troll above me.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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You mean to tell me that the people who were writing their own laws, their own philosophy and had people, not just people but scholars from all over the know Muslim world coming over had "Low Expectations".
What the hell do you know about scholars of Timbuctu, the Jurists and Judges and Doctors who advised and surrounded the king, unlike other places in the Arab world. What do you know about achievement when the same people who operated out of So called "mud huts" were studying College level algebra and Astronomy.
Sorry had to reply.
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: ^What you invite is "Condescension" i.e. those poor Negroes simply "Can't" do any better. Lets make a fuss over their Mud Huts to make them feel good about themselves - BULLSH1T!
I would argue that they simply didn't feel the need to do better. They had low need, and low expectations for themselves, and lived like it.
As I remember, someone posted a study that showed the best educated people in Europe, relative to population, were Africans - see what feeling the "Need" to excel does to a person?
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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I think there are some examples of some stone use in Timbuctoo.I KNOW some buildings use combinations.
The houses of Timbuktu are huts made of clay-covered wattles with thatched roofs. In the center of the city is a temple built of stone and mortar, built by an architect named Granata, and in addition there is a large palace, constructed by the same architect, where the king lives. The shops of the artisans, the merchants, and especially weavers of cotton cloth are very numerous. Fabrics are also imported from Europe to Timbuktu, borne by Berber merchants.
here some more info
quote Construction in Mali Musa embarked on a large building program, raising mosques and madrasas in Timbuktu and Gao. Most famously the ancient center of learning Sankore Madrasah or University of Sankore was constructed during his reign. In Niani, he built the Hall of Audience, a building communicated by an interior door to the royal palace. It was "an admirable Monument" surmounted by a dome, adorned with arabesques of striking colours. The windows of an upper floor were plated with wood and framed in silver foil, those of a lower floor were plated with wood, framed in gold. Like the Great Mosque, a contemporaneous and grandiose structure in Timbuktu, the Hall was built of cut stone.
During this period, there was an advanced level of urban living in the major centers of the Mali. Sergio Domian, an Italian art and architecture scholar, wrote the following about this period: "Thus was laid the foundation of an urban civilization. At the height of its power, Mali had at least 400 cities, and the interior of the Niger Delta was very densely populated."
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Architecture The Islamic architecture of West Africa reflects the complexities and diversities of its history as well as the differing natural environments. In the past, analysis of the architecture of the area has tended to concentrate on the influence of North Africa and the Middle East rather than to examine the indigenous cultures and architecture of the area. Three main sources of influence were identified each of which ignored the possibility of local invention or development. The most far-fetched idea was that the monumental architecture of the region was developed from the dynastic architecture of Egypt and was transmitted by the migration of Songhay people from the upper Nile to the Niger. The second explanation attributes the entire West African architectural tradition to the Andalusian poet and architect al-Saheli who accompanied Mansa Musa on his return from the Hajj in 1324. Whilst there is some information that al-Saheli did design an audience hall it is unlikely that this or any other work he may have carried out created an architectural style for the whole region. The third suggestion is that the Moroccan invasion of 1591 was the primary influence on the subsequent architecture of the region. Whilst the Moroccan invasion was certainly accompanied by builders and craftsmen and may have had some influence this was not sufficient to create a complex and distinct architectural style. More recently scholars have emphasized the architectural styles and beliefs of indigenous pagan cultures as influences on the later Islamic architecture of the region.
A wide variety of building materials and techniques arc used over this vast region. The techniques are largely defined by the material, which may be grouped into three basic types, stone, mud and wood. Stone predominates in the western Sahara and Sahel and tends to be associated with Berber architecture. The best examples of stone cities are found in Mauritania at sites like Chinguit, Oudan, Tijika, Qasr el Barka and Tichit. Excavation has shown that Koumbi Saleh, the capital of ancient Ghana, and its sister city Awdaghast were also built of stone. Many of these sites were originally founded as ribats, although they later grew into large trading cities. The most common method of building in stone in the area uses split limestone in dry-stone wall constructions. The limestone used in the buildings comes in several colours from green and yellow to rose, depending on local availability. The outer faces are usually left unplastered although at Tichit the inner surfaces are coated in clay and a mud mortar is used for some of the walls (at Oualata both the inner and outer surfaces are covered in mud plaster). A characteristic feature of this masonry is the use of triangular niches sometimes arranged to form composite triangular features. Also common are projecting corbels, bands of triangular niches forming chevron patterns and battered walls. The roof and ceilings are usually built of split date-palm trunks arranged diagonally over the corners, forming a square shape in the centre which is then covered by further split-palm beams arranged longitudinally. Above the beams, is placed a woven matting of split palm fronds, on top of which a layer of earth is spread. Although in the cities the buildings are built to a rectangular or square plan, many of the buildings in villages are built with a round plan or with rounded corners. Even in Chinguit itself many of the houses are built with the external corners rounded off.
Whilst stone is the building material of the western Sahara, mud is the characteristic building material of the southern Sahel and the Savannah areas. Sometimes mud is used in combination with stone as at Timbuktu and Oualata, suggesting either the integration of two cultural traditions or the interface between two different environments.
At Oualata the buildings are essentially dry-stone constructions covered with layers of mud plaster which serve no structural function. The effect of the mud-plaster coverings is to make the buildings look like mud-brick structures suggesting a cultural tradition originating from the southern Savannah regions grafted on to an existing Berber architecture. This suggestion is strengthened by the makeup of the population, a mixture of Berber and Soninke people. Inside the houses of Oualata, the areas around doorways and niches are decorated with brilliant white wall paintings in the form of arabesque medallions.
The use of the mixture of mud and stone at Timbuktu is very different from the practice at Oualata; thus the buildings have a rubble-stone core held together by mud mortar and plaster. The quality of the stones used at Timbuktu mean that it would not be possible to build houses solely out of stone, thus the mud plaster and mortar here perform a structural function whilst the stone is used for strength. In many Timbuktu houses exposed limestone is used for corner quoins and door jambs and the building of any house starts with the laying out of four corner stones.
The decoration of buildings at Timbuktu suggests a close relationship with the stone-built Berber cities of Mauritania; thus the triangular niches and chevron bands are here executed in mud brick. This architectural similarity is paralleled in the ceilings and roofs which employ the same method of diagonally split palm beams. The preference for stone architecture is most clearly expressed on the interior of the oldest part of the Djinguere Ber Mosque where round 'Roman' a arches made of dressed limestone are used to support the roof. The distinction between stone and mud-brick architecture in Timbuktu is observed by the builders who are divided into two castes depending on which material they use. It seems likely that there was a pre-existing mud-architecture tradition in the area which was developed by the incoming Berber population who were unable to find their normal building materials. The city of Agades was founded as a Berber city and one might expect it to be built of stone especially as the surrounding Berber villages consist of rectangular stone structures with Oualata-style ceilings. However, the city itself is made almost entirely of mud and resembles the Hausa architecture of north Nigeria. The reason for this could perhaps be attributed to the city's abandonment in the eighteenth century and it should be noted that a sixteenth-century traveller described the city as built in the Berber style. The subsequent rebuilding of the city in the nineteenth century was by people from north Nigeria which may explain its close relationship to Hausa architecture.
Mud either as brick or as pise is associated with the greatest examples of West Africa's monumental architecture such as the mosque of Djenne or the minaret of Agades. The area most suited to mud-brick architecture is the Savannah region where there is enough water to make bricks, plaster and pise yet not too much rain to dissolve the dried mud walls. Mud architecture lends itself to the creation of plastic sculptural forms on fairly simple structures, thus a simple rectangular facade can been livened by the addition of crenellations, engaged pillars and decorative panels. The traditional methods of mud architecture vary from one town to another; thus in Djenne cylindrical mud-bricks are used whereas in other towns simple dried-earth lumps will be used as the building material. Stylistically there are two main groups of mud architecture, a western tradition originating in the Manding cities of modern Mali and a more easterly tradition in the Hausa cities of north Nigeria.
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: Mike111 you are obviously Ignorant of Architecture and should keep your mouth shut on such matters. The Reason why the Sahelian Masons and architects build out of Mud is because that is the material avaialiable to them. There were Africans in Ethiopia, Sudan, Swahili, Congo, etc. that built out of Stone because stone was availiable to them. To build out of stone would bankrupt the regions as it would require the architect and builders to transport stone across the desert.
An Arial view of Djenne(If anyone has a Newer version of Photoshop yall can put meld the images together I have an older(2003) version)
So Mike you see any stone quarries, how should the Architects of Djenne and Timbuctoo(Not Mali and the Mauritanians who had stone quarries and used them as in the case of Tilchtt Walata) get stone so they can please you and build building like the Whites and Arabs you love so,...How???
Man please, you are a washed up fraud fake, the builders and designers of the Adobe City of Djenne and Timbuctoo have done more for Africa than you ever will.
And Unesco designated Djenne and Timbuctoo World Heritage because the Great Mosque is the largest Adobe structure in the world.
Sorry Altakruri, not trying to ruin the tread, I just cant stand people trying to judge things they have no authority to judge. Im not wasting any more posts on the Troll above me.
Jari - I gotta tell you, dealing with you ignorant MFs is a real drain. I have to keep explaining even the simplest things, and then I have to keep repeating it.
Now hear this, two things Mali most certainly had were timber from the two river valleys, and most importantly MUD!
Egyptian cities, Palaces, and homes were NOT made of stone, they were made of MUD BRICK!
Sumerian cities, Palaces, and homes were NOT made of stone, they were made of MUD BRICK!
Elamite cities, Palaces, and homes were NOT made of stone, they were made of MUD BRICK!
Indus cities, Palaces, and homes were NOT made of stone, they were made of MUD BRICK!
Are you getting the drift?
THE GREAT WALL OF CHINA IS MADE OF MUD BRICK YOU ASS-HOLE. THE SAME MUD THAT MALI HAD AN UNLIMITED SUPPLY OF!
The Malians were simply dumb-assed Niggers, more interested in frontin for the White folks by giving away billions in gold, than in building a modern society. That's just the way it was.
You obviously didn't read the other post, so my next post will show what others did with MUD BRICK.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by kenndo: I think there are some examples of some stone use in Timbuctoo. I KNOW some buildings use combinations.
The houses of Timbuktu are huts made of clay-covered wattles with thatched roofs. In the center of the city is a temple built of stone and mortar, built by an architect named Granata, and in addition there is a large palace, constructed by the same architect, where the king lives. The shops of the artisans, the merchants, and especially weavers of cotton cloth are very numerous.
This quote from Pory's translation of Leo Africanus, alluding to es~Saheli, seems puzzling in light of Africanus' known visits to Timbuktu where there are no stone quarries in all the region and the fact of adobe brick rough casted over in plaster is a well known fact of historic and modern times.
But your source on limestone usage in Timbuktu underscored below, has broadened my knowledge and somewhat clarifies staements about a "stone" masjid and audience hall.
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Mike you are no great respecter of African ingenuity south of the desert the adobe serves a social function of getting all the community to involved with periodic repairs(social cohesion) see the vid by Al-Takruri, individual's houses are up-keep by professional workers "economics" think of what would happen if one made a light bulb where the filament never burn out, and as far as your Persian/Turks how they more intelligent than the Malistines, Songhais and others? But if it's bricks you want then the far west of the Sahel had that too and earlier, Originally posted by Jeri. http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=003635 Here^ EARLY HISTORY
Before 2000 BC, what is today the southern Sahara was inhabited by significant numbers of herders and farmers. On the rocky promontories of the Tichitt-Walata (Birou) and Tagant Plateaus in modern day Mauritania, they built what are considered among the earliest known civilizations in western Africa. Composed of more than 400 stone masonry settlements, with clear street layouts, some settlements had massive surrounding walls while others were less fortified. In a deteriorating environment, where arable land and pasturage were at a premium, the population grew and relatively large-scale political organizations emerged - factors which no doubt explain the homogeneity of architecture, settlement patterns, and material culture (e.g., lithic and ceramic traditions). This agro-pastoral society traded in jewelry and semi-precious stones from distant parts of the Sahara and Sahel, while crafts, hunting, and fishing were also important economic pursuits. Their elites built funerary monuments for themselves over a period extending from 4000 to 1000 BC.
Beginning around 600 BC, Tichitt-Walata entered a period of crisis which continued until 300 BC, although some settlements and cultural elements survived until the 4th century AD. The decline of architectural and material culture is evident in the archaeological record and settlement pattern, as towns were abandoned and villages became concealed and fortified. Increasingly arid conditions certainly contributed to this situation, as well as military forays from the east and north - which disrupted the regional centers’ control over trade routes - and political/military upheavals internally.
In the words of one archaeologist, the abandoned sites they left behind represent “a great wealth of rather spectacular prehistoric ruins” and “perhaps the most remarkable group of Neolithic settlements in the world” (Mauny, 1971). http://thenile.phpbb-host.com/phpbb/ftopic404.php
And Mike also hated dread-locs and feathers on Africans I can't get you sometimes man,the people on the Med and out wards did OK for themselves but so did Continental Africans.. a personal question if you don't mind.. Mike.. were you at anytime in the past a member of BHI ???
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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Brada-Anansi - I can't answer you last question completely because no one has bothered to say what BHI stands for. But as far as I know, I was never a part of it.
Quote; And Mike also hated dread-locs and feathers on Africans.
No need to pile-on, don't I already give adequate reasons to hate me for telling the truth?
And while we are on the subject of telling the truth. Lets revisit just WHO we are talking about.
Musa I (fl. 1312 - c. 1337), commonly referred to as Mansa Musa, was the tenth mansa, which translates as "king of kings" or "emperor", of the Malian Empire. At the time of Mansa Musa's rise to the throne, the Malian Empire consisted of territory formerly belonging to the Ghana Empire and Melle (Mali) and immediate surrounding areas, and Musa held many titles, including Emir of Melle, Lord of the Mines of Wangara, and conqueror of Ghanata, Futa-Jallon, and at least another dozen states. He was perhaps the wealthiest ruler of his day.
Now lets look at what the wealthiest ruler of his day, built to honor his country and culture.
HE "HIRED" A TURK TO BUILT THIS!!!!
To "Normal" people, it looks like what it is - a Mud Hut. To those unwilling to face the truth, it is a great structure - such is the way the Negro mind sometimes works.
So what were not-so-wealthy Blacks building with the SAME available materials at about the SAME time.
Fasilides Castle Ethiopia circa 1600
Mud brick kasbah with Erg Chebbi Dunes near merzouga morocco.
So did the richest man in the world, use his money to TRAIN his OWN people in architecture, so that in the future, THEY could build their OWN MODERN structures?
Na, dumb Niggers don't do that sort of thing.
WELL EXACTLY WHAT DID THIS RICHEST MAN IN THE WORLD DO WITH HIS MONEY?
Musa was a devout Muslim and his pilgrimage to Mecca, a command ordained by Allah according to core teachings of Islam, made him well-known across northern Africa and the Middle East. He believed the religion of Islam to be deep and certainly more than repetition of Qur'anic verses and prayer. To Musa, Islam was the foundation of the "cultured world of the Eastern Mediterranean". He would spend much time fostering the growth of Islam in his empire.
Musa made his pilgrimage in 1324, his procession reported to include 60,000 men, 12,000 slaves, heralds dressed in silks who bore gold staffs, organized horses and handled bags. Musa provided all necessities for the procession, feeding the entire company of men and animals. Also in the train were 80 camels, which varying reports claim carried 300 pounds of gold. Musa not only gave to the cities he passed on the way to Mecca, including Cairo and Medina, but also traded gold for souvenirs. Furthermore, it has been recorded that he built a mosque each and every Friday.
Musa's journey was documented by several eyewitnesses along his route, who were in awe of his wealth and extensive procession, and records exist in a variety of sources, including journals, oral accounts and histories. Musa is known to have visited with the Mamluk sultan Al-Nasir Muhammad of Egypt in July of 1324.Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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More on the ignorant, show-off, Negro Mansa Musa.
The following description of the visit to Cairo in 1324 by the King of Mali, Mansa Musa, was written by Al-Umari, who visited Cairo several years after the Mansa Musa’s visit.
This man [Mansa Musa] flooded Cairo with his benefactions. He left no court emir nor holder of a royal office without the gift of a load of gold. The Cairenes made incalculable profits out of him and his suite in buying and selling and giving and taking. They exchanged gold until they depressed its value in Egypt and caused its price to fall.”
THE LEGACY OF THE WORLDS RICHEST MAN!
Wiki quote: Mali is one of the poorest countries in the world. The average worker's annual salary is approximately US$1,500. Between 1992 and 1995, Mali implemented an economic adjustment program that resulted in economic growth and a reduction in financial imbalances.
Malian children playing football in a Dogon village.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: Mike, who are your favorite ancient black people? Who are you most impressed by?
He,he, trying to figure me out huh. You find it strange that a Black man would call bad Black behavior out, for what it is, don't you. Actually, most intelligent Blacks do, just not in public.
The fact is, that ass-holes like Mansa Musa and the slave selling empires, really make me very angry. If I could, I would plant my foot deeply up their dumb asses. Do you see the legacy of their stupidity?
In answer to your question: Without doubt, the Sumerians. You will note, a common theme throughout their speeches: "To bring benefit to the people".
In particular, it would be Shulgi/Chulgi son of the great Ur-Nammu. For his rather penetrating understanding of human nature.
Letter from Shulgi to Aradju about Apillaca - circa 2,000 B.C.
Say to Aradju: this is what Shulgi, your lord, says:
The man to whom I have sent you is not your subordinate -- he will not accept orders from your hand! How can you ignore what he himself has done too, and that it is indeed so?
As I myself ordered, you were to secure the provinces, and to correctly guide the people and secure the foundations of the provinces. When you approach the cities of the provinces, inform yourself precisely of their intentions, and inform yourself of the words of their dignitaries. Let my roar be emitted over all the lands. Let my powerful arm, my heroic arm, fall upon all the lands. Let my storm be released over the Land. Make the (Amorites?) disappear into the desert, and the robbers into the fields! Until you reach Apillaca, my 'Sage of the Assembly', (missing) Let (missing). That was how I had instructed you. Why have you not acted as I ordered you?
If I do not make my 'Sage of the Assembly' feel just as important as I am, if he does not sit on a throne on a dais, furnished with a high-quality cloth cover, if his feet do not rest on a golden footstool, if he is not allowed by his own highest authority both to appoint and then to remove a governor from his function as governor, an official from his charge, if he does not kill or blind anyone, if he does not elevate his favorite over others -- how else can he secure the provinces? If you truly love me, you will not bear him a grudge!
You are important, and you even know the soldiers that are at Apillaca's disposal. Your eyes have learnt something about Apillaca's men, and about Apillaca's heroism. If you, Aradju and Apillaca, are indeed my servants, you should both pay attention to my written communications. Come to an understanding, you two! Secure the foundations of the provinces! It is urgent
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The ancient city of Bam courtesy of your Persians built of mud and a world heritage site,I bet my bottom dollar that you find beauty in it because it is Persian. and hay!! in Mansa Musa's capitol just about everyone was literate,well fed, prosperous safe from crime and foreign invasion..something that could not be said of your Persians,the student body alone in places like Timbuktu out numbered the present day populous.
Rene-Auguste Caille set out to discover Timbuktu, he planned to avoid the mistakes of his predecessors like Gordon Laing. Caille already had a solid knowledge of Africa. By the age of twenty he had explored regions around Senegal. Before setting off for Timbuktu, Caille learned Arabic and studied Islam. Posing as an Arab trader en route to Egypt, he left Senegal in April 1827. Caille was delayed for five months due to sickness, but arrived in Timbuktu in April 1828. His arrival was disappointing. By the 19th century, the state of the city had sharply declined. Morocco had conquered the city in 1591 but had little success in holding firm. Several smaller raids by such groups as the Berbers, Fulani and Bambara slowly chipped away at Timbuktu’s glory. Little by little traders moved elsewhere. Caille described Timbuktu as gray and dingy. The gold-topped roofs imagined by Europeans were really flat mud slabs atop adobe structures. The sand dunes surrounding the city seemed to be slowly drowning the town. The only aspect of the city still thriving was its devotion to scholarship. Rene Caille found so little of interest in Timbuktu that he stayed a mere two weeks before heading back to France via Morocco. What you see is only a hint of what was the reasons for that laid in the shift of the trade routes and predatory raids by displaced Moors who recently got kicked out of Europe and others once the empire became decentralized. so yes the region has fallen on hard times. And the people who gave the world this sometimes live like This^..local and historical conditions was/is not the same everywhere.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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Brada-Anansi - Shame! You are mouthing alTakruri's assertion that I admire Persians, and mimicking Lionesses poor scholarship - double shame!
Actually I do NOT admire Persians, and I have said it before. The reason is very simple, Persians are responsible for the fall of the ancient western Black civilizations. In their own way, they were even stupider than Mansa Musa.
As to your poor scholarship:
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
Bam is a city in Kerman Province of Iran, the center of Bam County. There are various opinions about the date and reasons for the foundation of the citadel. Some people believe that Bam city was founded during the Parthian (they were White) Empire. But most buildings were built during the Safavid dynasty.
Safavids The Safavids (Persian: Azerbaijani: Səfəvilər; Kurdish: were one of the most significant ruling dynasties of Iran. They ruled one of the greatest Persian empires since the Islamic conquest of Persia and established the (Twelver) school of Shi'a Islam as the official religion of their empire, marking one of the most important turning points in the history of Islam. This Shia dynasty was of mixed ancestry (Kurdish and Azerbaijani, with intermarriages with Georgian and Pontic Greek dignitaries) and ruled Iran from 1501 to 1722.
BTW Brada-Anansi, didn't you get the memo??? Iran has been ruled by Turks for over 1,000 years. You really need to keep up!
posted
I don't want to leave the "other" objects of my contempt out - the "REAL" Arabs - the Black ones. I am now looking for previous comments so I won't have to re-write it.
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: ^Each population of Blacks has it's own sins to account for.
At the top of the list are the Arabs, who in their stupidity, brought the Turks in as slave soldiers (Mamluks). Exactly why a dumb Nigger from a small population, would bring in so many slaves that they would quickly outnumber him, and then stupidly seek to control them with his religion, is beyond my comprehension - all I can say for sure is that it was really, really stupid.
Second on the list are the Persians, who in their "Johnny-come-lately" hubris, thought that they could save the world by imposing THEIR rule, and THEIR religion upon it.
All those ass-holes did was to combine all the other Black civilizations into one, so that by conquering Persia, Alexander in effect, conquered the entire advanced Black world.
Originally posted by Mike111:
THESE ARE THE "REAL" SOUTHERN ARABS.
THE GREAT NEGRO SLAVE SELLERS OF EAST AFRICA
Sultans of Zanzibar, former Sultans of Yemen.
1806 - 1856 H.H. Sayyid Sa'id bin Sultan, Imam of Muscat and Oman, Sultan of Muscat, Oman and Zanzibar.
1856 - 1870 H.H. Sultan Sayyid Majid bin Sa'id, Sultan of Zanzibar and its dependencies.
1888 - 1890 H.H. Sultan Sayyid Khalifa I bin Said, Sultan of Zanzibar and its dependencies
1890 - 1893 H.H. Sultan Sayyid 'Ali I bin Said, Sultan of Zanzibar and its dependencies
1896 - 1902 H.H. Sultan Sayyid Hamud bin Muhammad bin Sa’id , Sultan of Zanzibar and its dependencies,
1902 - 1911 H.H. Sultan Sayyid ‘Ali II bin Hamud, Sultan of Zanzibar and its dependencies.
1911 - 1960 H.H. Sultan Sayyid Sir Khalifa II bin Harub, Sultan of Zanzibar and its dependencies,
1960 - 1963 H.H. Sultan Sayyid 'Abdu'llah bin Khalifa, Sultan of Zanzibar and its dependencies
posted
Hey guys. Refute Mike in some thread he started.
Nobody gave a **** about his Turk thread so he came over here to wreck this one. Don't help him do it.
Reserve this thread for Djenne and Sudano-Sahelian architecture for its own sake not as a reaction to penis envy having haters.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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For centuries, complex and intricate adobe structures, have been built in the Sahal region of western Africa, including the countries of Mali, Niger, Nigeria, Togo, Benin, Ghana, and Burkina Faso. Made of earth mixed with water, these ephemeral buildings display a remarkable diversity of form, human ingenuity, and originality.
In a fascinating book, published in 2003, titled ‘Butabu: Adobe Architecture of West Africa’, and co-authored by British photographer James Morris and Harvard professor Suzanne Preston Blier, a stunning visual array of these structures is displayed.
Follow the links for 48 photos like these 5 (click to enlarge)
“Too often, when people in the West think of African architecture, they perceive nothing more than a mud hut—a primitive vernacular remembered from an old Tarzan movie. Why this ignorance to the richness of West African buildings? Possibly it is because the great dynastic civilizations of the region were already in decline when the European colonizers first exposed these cultures to the West. Being built of mud, many older buildings had already been lost, unlike the stone or brick buildings of other ancient cultures. Or possibly this lack of awareness is because the buildings are just too strange, too foreign to have been easily appreciated by outsiders. Often they more closely resemble huge monolithic sculptures or ceramic pots than “architecture” as we think of it. But in fact these buildings are neither “historic monuments” in the classic sense, nor as culturally remote as they may initially appear. They share many qualities — such as sustainability, sculptural beauty, and community participation in their conception — now valued in Western architectural thinking. Though part of long traditions and ancient cultures, they are at the same time contemporary structures serving a current purpose.
The mud from which these buildings are made is itself a controversial substance that tests our conventional views of architecture. It is one of the most commonly used building materials in the world, and yet in our urban-dominated society it is seen, effectively, as dirt. Buildings subtly alter in appearance each time they are re-rendered, which can be as often as once a year. Yet the maintaining and resurfacing of buildings is part of the rhythm of life; there is an ongoing and active participation in their continuing existence. If they lost their relevance and were neglected, they would collapse. This is not a museum culture…”
In this review of the book from The Guardian Newspaper, journalist Jonathan Glancey writes:
“What these magnificent mosques prove is that mud buildings can be far more sophisticated than many people living in a world of concrete and steel might want to believe. Mud is not just a material for shaping pots, but for temples, palaces and even, as so many west African towns demonstrate, the framing of entire communities. The very fluidity, or viscosity, of the material allows the architects who use it to create dynamic and sensual forms.
Morris’s photographic trips through the region in 1999 and 2000 record a world of architecture that, sadly, is increasingly under threat. Perhaps it is mostly poverty rather than culture and memory that keeps this rich and inventive tradition of building alive…”
This book is a treasure trove of imagery and information to any architecture enthusiast. Critical elements like space, light, and texture are explored in intimate detail, revealing a strong argument for this kind of architecture to be studied, documented, and profiled more wildly. As Morris sums up his preface: “I am still curious why West Africa’s adobe buildings receive so little serious consideration. If architecture is a cultural expression, perhaps it is the culture from which these buildings have evolved, so alien to the European mind, that keeps it in the academic wilderness, hard for the commentators to place.
Sadly, the English version of the book is now out of print. There are, however, used and new copies avaibale from independent outlets via Amazon.com
Photographs and Preface published courtesy of James Morris.
posted
Ah, illustrations from Félix DuBois' Timbuctoo the Mysterious (1896). Thanks for them Jari. The first two posts of this thread rely on that book. I sorely lament my loss of it.
Dubois remarked that Djenne's architectural designs stirred his recollections of Egypt.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Brada-Anansi and alTakruri - Have I covered everything?
Why do white people come and actually think they can fool us into thinking they are Black. Remember what I am about to say. "We know you people, but you do not know us."
You give yourself away by the very hatred that drives you, plus we are immersed in your culture, yet you know very little about ours or even our speech patterns.
Take lioness and cart your ass back to stormfront.
Posts: 163 | From: United States | Registered: Aug 2009
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Good to have topics like this every now and then, because dismissive attitude towards Sudanic-Sahelian structures generally comes from lack of in depth understanding of the full continuum of Sudanic-Sahelian architecture. This is true even for ideologically-driven reaction.
-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: Good to have topics like this every now and then, because dismissive attitude towards Sudanic-Sahelian structures generally comes from lack of in depth understanding of the full continuum of Sudanic-Sahelian architecture. This is true even for ideologically-driven reaction.
I dont know why poeople cant see the beauty of that style, considering Africans all the way to the Egypians used mud to make their homes.
Personally I would love to see the architecture of the EARLY Kongo Empire.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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They don't like the smooth over plaster casting. They want to see the underlying ferey bricks.
Neither Moors nor Francs could improve upon the Djennerean architecture in the regions where it was deployed and implemented. All they could do was redecorate and/or add appurtenances.
People all over the world used mud. It's just that outside Africa they dignify it with the term adobe and rename building with it to earthen architecture.
Here's a vid on Yemeni mud architecture.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
^^^^ Altakruri you are correct. Anything that Africans do is always put under a microscope and disrespected.
Arab Yemeni's have built their whole cities out of Mud, yet it is celebrated as a beauty of Architecture.
Ancient and (Modern) Egyptians the Golden Calf of Eurocentrics and Afrocentrics built their Palaces and Houses out of Mud and Mudbrick so much so only a few models of Egyptian Houses exist and no traces of Palaces survive. Yet I don't see the Afro/Euro Eccentrics Dogging A. Egyptians and saying the Pharoahs should have got folks to "train" A. Egyptians in architecture.
This is the reality that people studying and advocating Africana History must deal with. Everything our ancestors did will always be disrespected, dismissed, and distorted.
Honestly its annoying and frustrating.
The type of Architecture in Mali and Djenne should be celebrated due to the fact that its so unique to that region in Africa. We had people in the same Area building out of Wood and Stone some of which survive today.
Mali is impoverished today. During its hayday its Arch. Styles and Beauty as described via Muslim Travelers was on Par with that of the Rest of the world. Muslim Travelers are pretty opinionated and reliable. Yet they spoke glowingly of the Region of Ghana and Mali.
I would give anything to visit Timbucktoo during its Golden Age.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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What you wrote is true and at times must be noted. I don't much dwell on it prefering to write in a proactive devoid of protest voice but so often a thing is deprecated just because it's associated with Africa particularly "Black Africa".
China's Great wall is 70% mud with the remainder being rock and mud covered by a brick or stone facade, yet no one has a problem marvelling it, whereas Nigeria's former Ijebu kingdom mud constructed Great Wall of Eredo is made the butt of ridicule and nothing at all is ever said about the Walls of Benin (Edo, Nigeria).
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: Anything that Africans do is always put under a microscope and disrespected.
This is the reality that people studying and advocating Africana History must deal with. Everything our ancestors did will always be disrespected, dismissed, and distorted.
Honestly its annoying and frustrating.
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