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Egypt's Race Problem For too many Egyptians, sub-Saharan Africa is a stereotypical exotic land of thick jungles and masses of poor, starving and black-skinned savages. By: Sunni M. Khalid|Posted: February 3, 2011 at 2:53 PM
Because of my looks, my religion and my name, I have frequently been mistaken for Arab during my travels throughout the Middle East. It has been a mentally liberating sensation -- to leave the racial politics of the United States (in reality, this is simply the process of exchanging the ethnic politics of one land for those of another) and not to be regarded as simply a nondescript "black."
Over the years, I have, at various times, been mistaken for many different nationalities. But when I am in the Middle East, strangers most often mistake me for Egyptian. Of course, many African Americans look like Egyptians, right across the color spectrum. I would often scan a crowded street in Cairo and pick out the faces of Egyptians whose visages reminded me of family or friends.
Almost every time I arrived at the Cairo airport, the immigration official would examine my passport closely. Inevitably, the official would ask me a series of questions.
"Is this your name, Sunni Khalid?"
"Yes."
"Are you Egyptian?"
"No."
"Is your father Egyptian?"
"No."
"Is your mother Egyptian?"
"No."
"Where were you born?"
"Detroit."
The official would immediately become suspicious. After all, to his eyes, I looked like an ordinary Egyptian. Finally, another immigration official would show up, repeating the same series of questions. I'd have to repeat my answers a third or fourth time before still more disbelieving immigration officials.
As a last resort, I'd often put my hands up in a boxer's stance and start jumping around, throwing punches in the air. Then I'd turn to them and say, "I'm like Muhammad Ali-Clay." That would always bring smiles.
"Oh, you're a boxer! Do you know Muhammad Ali-Clay?"
"No, I'm like Muhammad Ali-Clay," I would say. "I'm an African-American Muslim."
Quickly, those quizzical looks would be replaced with smiles and handshakes. As they stamped my passport, the officials would tell me, "Welcome home."
But other blacks, whether American or not, have fared much worse than I did; they are never mistaken for Arabs.
Slender, beautiful, blue-black-skinned Southern Sudanese women, who walk around Cairo with their thick, kinky hair woven distinctively in intricate braids, are routinely the targets of verbal public abuse. Carloads of Arab men drive by, hanging out of windows, shouting catcalls, or making loud demands for sexual favors.
Over the years, Egypt has had a particularly difficult time coming to grips with its African identity. Many Egyptians do not consider themselves Africans. Some take offense even to being identified with Africa at all. When speaking to Egyptians who have traveled to countries below the Sahara, nearly all of them speak of going to Africa, or going down to Africa, as if Egypt were separate from the rest of the continent.
More than a few Egyptian women, for example, told me that they disliked the dark-skinned former President Anwar Sadat, ridiculed for years as "Nasser's black poodle." Sadat, whose mother was Sudanese, they insisted, "did not look Egyptian enough."
For too many Egyptians, sub-Saharan Africa is a stereotypical exotic land of thick jungles and masses of poor, starving and black-skinned savages. Ironically, a little more than a generation ago, Cairo was the nerve center for the continent's liberation movement. Today the state-controlled media devote scant attention to the affairs of the continent below the Sahara. Even the occasional visit by a head of state from sub-Saharan Africa is greeted with smiles by snickering Egyptian government officials, especially when African visitors choose to wear their national dress.
This was not always the case. In 1966, following the coup in Ghana, Egypt's first president, Gamal Abdel-Nasser, sent for the Egyptian wife and half-Egyptian children of Ghana's deposed leader, Kwame Nkrumah. Nasser died suddenly in 1970, and much has changed since then.
Sub-Saharan Africans, who have fled as refugees to Egypt from Sudan, Ethiopia and Eritrea, are routinely targeted for periodic security roundups in Cairo. In December 2005, Egyptian riot police brutally attacked a camp of Sudanese refugees in Cairo who were protesting their treatment. In front of TV cameras, at least 28 and as many as 100 refugees were killed, and hundreds of others were injured, arrested, imprisoned or deported. There was little public protest.
My wife, Zeinab, a Kenyan Somali, endured a series of racial indignities during our time in Egypt. She would shop Road Nine, the trendy commercial drag in Maadi that caters mostly to foreigners and wealthy Egyptians. More than once, she would be standing in line at the checkout counter, when an older, fair-skinned Egyptian woman would arrogantly walk from the rear of the line and place her packages on the conveyor belt in front of Zeinab, as if my wife didn't exist. Indignantly, Zeinab would glare at the woman and dump her packages at the back of the line -- or even go so far as to grab the woman by the collar to make her point.
Whenever my wife would come to the airport to pick me up, she'd often have to fend off several Arab men, who assumed that, as a black woman, she was somehow immediately "available" to their desires, whether she was married or not.
One afternoon, as we ate lunch at our favorite restaurant in Cairo's sprawling Khan el-Khalili market, we noticed two scowling Egyptian women staring at us from across the room. I left Zeinab to go to the restroom. As I returned to our table, one of the women who had been glaring at us earlier, an older Egyptian woman, accosted me.
"Don't you know better?" she asked in Arabic. "How dare you bring a woman like that into a place like this?"
As far as this woman was concerned, Zeinab, dressed casually in slacks, her hair in braids, was obviously a "Sudanese prostitute," and I was taken to be her Arab "john." Certainly, in her eyes, no respectable Egyptian man would ever cavort publicly with a black woman.
"Excuse me, ma'am," I replied politely in Arabic, "you've made a mistake. That woman is my wife."
My protests were futile. The woman kept tugging indelicately on my sleeve, castigating me for my "scandalous" public behavior.
Before I left Cairo, I met a group of sub-Saharan African students enrolled at the prestigious al-Azhar University. They told me about the racial harassment they were subjected to on a daily basis on the streets of Cairo by Egyptian Arabs.
"I learned something much different from what I believed," said Bala, a native of northern Nigeria and a graduate student at the American University in Cairo, who lived in Egypt for six years. "I thought [the Arabs] were our brothers in Islam, but they don't bother about that when you're black. ... They pretend that you are a brother in Islam, but this is different from what they hold in their hearts and in their minds."
He told me that for many Muslims from sub-Saharan Africa, the spiritual solidarity with Egyptian Muslims was misplaced. "I was coming out of masjid [mosque] in a place called Dar-el-Malik," Bala said. "So we used to say 'Salaam' to one another when we came out of salat [prayer]. There was one child, called Mohamed, and we were used to shaking hands with him. And one day, I came out to shake his hand and he refused. He told me his father told him never to shake hands with a Sudani -- that is black. So he is telling me his father told him he cannot say, 'Salaam,' to any [Africans]."
Through Bala, I met other African students, including some who were studying at al-Azhar University, with the hope of returning to their native lands as imams and religious scholars. Some of the students told me that they experienced racism within al-Azhar to such an extent that they eventually renounced their vows as Muslims.
Some Egyptians, they told me, called Africans hounga (a nonsense word) or asked, "What time is it?" This was apparently done so that the sub-Saharan Africans would look down and be reminded of their dark-skinned wrists, where their watches might be. The jokesters would immediately laugh, but the Africans wouldn't catch on to the joke until much later.
"Egyptians ask you if you live in trees," Bala said. "Or, 'Why are you black?' 'Is your country hot?' So, this is how we know that there is something called racism here. We are Muslims, not because of the Arabs, but Muslims despite what the Arabs have done to us. Even my worst enemy, I would not ask him to come to Egypt for studies, let alone my son."
As Egypt moves forward in a post-Mubarak era, it will have to look at healing many of the wounds that have been opened and have festered over the years. This includes mending ties among Egyptians across religious lines, between the Muslim majority and the Coptic Christian minority, as well as across racial fault lines, with more acceptance of the non-Arab Nubian minority and the significant number of African refugees living and working in Egypt. How these minorities are treated in the future may speak volumes about how far Egyptians have come, or have to go, in treating one another.
Sunni M. Khalid is the managing news editor at WYPR-FM and has reported extensively throughout Africa and the Middle East. He reported from Cairo for three years.
All this is exactly the reason why Egypt as a civilization has fallen into ruin since the Roman period. It is because foreigners have taken over the country and made it their own while they debase and castigate the actual black natives! This how we get Afrangi elite ruling the country like the Abozos of Egypt.
In the mean time these Afrangi despise oppress blacks, they try to claim these ancient royals as their ancestors!
How the mighty have fallen!
Posts: 26252 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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This article is proof that Arab colonialism in Africa is even worse than European colonialism. At least the Euros never used their religion (Christianity) nor any process of intermarrying or assimilation to give any false pretenses! This is the exact reason why blacks who are light complexioned enough are called 'Arabs' while their ancestral African culture is devalued and denigrated with exception of Phraonic Egypt which is not even acknowledged as African but 'Near-Eastern' and therefore somehow Arabish!
It is through all this that Arabs have done far more harm to Africa and its history than Europeans! At least the Euros are willing to admit to their mistakes and clean up their acts. I doubt the Arabs ever will! Yet they dare claim the culture of the pyramids and pharaohs?! This is the most insane sh|t if I ever saw one.
Oh yeah and the so-called 'Arab' north Sudanis are now different. When they hate their (equally black and equally Muslim) kinsmen of Darfur to the point that they will burn women and children alive or throw their babies in boiling water!
Posts: 26252 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ It's a DAMN SHAME!
All this is exactly the reason why Egypt as a civilization has fallen into ruin since the Roman period. It is because foreigners have taken over the country and made it their own while they debase and castigate the actual black natives! This how we get Afrangi elite ruling the country like the Abozos of Egypt.
In the mean time these Afrangi despise oppress blacks, they try to claim these ancient royals as their ancestors!
How the mighty have fallen!
Why the great surprise? It's happened in America, Australia, Hawaii, and many other native lands where whites and Asians migrated and took over. Why should Egypt be any different, especially since many confused Africans seem to idolize them.
Posts: 2403 | Registered: Feb 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: This article is proof that Arab colonialism in Africa is even worse than European colonialism. At least the Euros never used their religion (Christianity) nor any process of intermarrying or assimilation to give any false pretenses! This is the exact reason why blacks who are light complexioned enough are called 'Arabs' while their ancestral African culture is devalued and denigrated with exception of Phraonic Egypt which is not even acknowledged as African but 'Near-Eastern' and therefore somehow Arabish!
It is through all this that Arabs have done far more harm to Africa and its history than Europeans! At least the Euros are willing to admit to their mistakes and clean up their acts. I doubt the Arabs ever will! Yet they dare claim the culture of the pyramids and pharaohs?! This is the most insane sh|t if I ever saw one.
Making things even worse is that these Afrangis appeal to our white guilt when they whine about blacks "stealing their history". Frankly, a major reason we are so reluctant to admit that the Egyptians were black is that we're afraid of pissing off the Afrangis. It's a tragic irony that our political correctness has the effect of facilitating the oppression of black people.
I too am incensed by the Afrangi Arabs' appropriation of indigenous Egyptian culture. It doesn't even make sense, for no one denies that Arabs or related people have built sophisticated civilizations. They don't need Kemet to feel proud of their heritage any more than Mexicans of Spanish descent need Mesoamerican civilization. Why do they want to claim pharaonic culture for themselves if not to oppress blacks?
Posts: 7079 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: This article is proof that Arab colonialism in Africa is even worse than European colonialism. At least the Euros never used their religion (Christianity) nor any process of intermarrying or assimilation to give any false pretenses! This is the exact reason why blacks who are light complexioned enough are called 'Arabs' while their ancestral African culture is devalued and denigrated with exception of Phraonic Egypt which is not even acknowledged as African but 'Near-Eastern' and therefore somehow Arabish!
It is through all this that Arabs have done far more harm to Africa and its history than Europeans! At least the Euros are willing to admit to their mistakes and clean up their acts. I doubt the Arabs ever will! Yet they dare claim the culture of the pyramids and pharaohs?! This is the most insane sh|t if I ever saw one.
Making things even worse is that these Afrangis appeal to our white guilt when they whine about blacks "stealing their history". Frankly, a major reason we are so reluctant to admit that the Egyptians were black is that we're afraid of pissing off the Afrangis. It's a tragic irony that our political correctness has the effect of facilitating the oppression of black people.
I too am incensed by the Afrangi Arabs' ion of indigenous Egyptian culture. It doesn't even make sense, for no one denies that Arabs or related people have built sophisticated civilizations. They don't need Kemet to feel proud of their heritage any more than Mexicans of Spanish descent need Mesoamerican civilization. Why do they want to claim pharaonic culture for themselves if not to oppress blacks?
The more mature Egyptians are not dumb. With the younger ones that live in the US it is a different story. The writing in the original post talks about race issues in Egypt and how Egyptians have issues with its darker People. Those SAME Egyptians that have issues with the darker people know FULL WELL those "darkies" look like the images posted by Djehuti and not like themselves. They know it and they will tell you. They dont really try to appropriate the culture at all, or albeit in a larger Egyptian sense as "Egyptian" being a nationality. A lot of the northern Egyptians stress their Turkish, Syrian, Arab, Greek, etc ancestry. At least this is what I experience. They recognize while they may have issues with Dark skinned people, Dark skinned images are the majority in damn near every temple in the building.
Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
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quote:Originally posted by MelaninKing: Why the great surprise?
He's not. He's only feigning moral outrage. Cant you tell? He isn't really concerned about anti-black racism which is why he will apologize for Israelis and white Jews but get so "outraged" at Arab racism. Mary knows how to put on an act. LOL
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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I posted the other day, concerning the looting of the Cairo Museum, a blog called Black In Cairo. In that blog I found one of the most truth telling video's about Race & Globalization, titled Bleach Nip Tuck: The white Beauty Myth. It is a UK production that is very truthful about Race & Globalization by using Michael Jackson & his transformation from a Black man into White as the modern archetypical figure for this phenomenon. To view this video you have too scroll down & it is under the article" The Color Complex In Cairo". which is a very good article, along with others on this page.
quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing: He's not. He's only feigning moral outrage. Cant you tell? He isn't really concerned about anti-black racism which is why he will apologize for Israelis and white Jews but get so "outraged" at Arab racism. Mary knows how to put on an act. LOL
Where has Djehuti apologized for Israelis and white Jews who are racist against black people? In all the years I've spent on this message board, I don't recall him ever saying anything like that.
Posts: 7079 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: They are NOT ARAB they are TURKS!
Arabs are just as Black as Egyptians.
It's one thing to say that the first Arabic-speakers were black, but there is no denying that the language was later adopted by lighter-skinned peoples who were not Turks. Here are some depictions of Arabic-speaking people predating the Ottoman Empire:
quote:Where has Djehuti apologized for Israelis and white Jews who are racist against black people? In all the years I've spent on this message board, I don't recall him ever saying anything like that.
In all your years on ES you dont even know if you see AEs as black how the fuk can you know anything else? lol
Brandonboy move out. Find some pussy, get laid, buy a hooker, something. You probably look like a fuking vampire coming form your basement now.
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: They are NOT ARAB they are TURKS!
Arabs are just as Black as Egyptians.
It's one thing to say that the first Arabic-speakers were black, but there is no denying that the language was later adopted by lighter-skinned peoples who were not Turks. Here are some depictions of Arabic-speaking people predating the Ottoman Empire:
So now Arab is a language group NOT an ethnic group. He,he, You forgot to say what the Turks always say - it's a "Culture" group. LMAO with you hypocrites.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by vwwvv: The official would immediately become suspicious. After all, to his eyes, I looked like an ordinary Egyptian. Finally, another immigration official would show up, repeating the same series of questions. I'd have to repeat my answers a third or fourth time before still more disbelieving immigration officials.
As a last resort, I'd often put my hands up in a boxer's stance and start jumping around, throwing punches in the air. Then I'd turn to them and say, "I'm like Muhammad Ali-Clay." That would always bring smiles.
"Oh, you're a boxer! Do you know Muhammad Ali-Clay?"
"No, I'm like Muhammad Ali-Clay," I would say. "I'm an African-American Muslim."
Quickly, those quizzical looks would be replaced with smiles and handshakes. As they stamped my passport, the officials would tell me, "Welcome home."
But other blacks, whether American or not, have fared much worse than I did; they are never mistaken for Arabs.
Slender, beautiful, blue-black-skinned Southern Sudanese women, who walk around Cairo with their thick, kinky hair woven distinctively in intricate braids, are routinely the targets of verbal public abuse. Carloads of Arab men drive by, hanging out of windows, shouting catcalls, or making loud demands for sexual favors.
[...]
My wife, Zeinab, a Kenyan Somali, endured a series of racial indignities during our time in Egypt. She would shop Road Nine, the trendy commercial drag in Maadi that caters mostly to foreigners and wealthy Egyptians. More than once, she would be standing in line at the checkout counter, when an older, fair-skinned Egyptian woman would arrogantly walk from the rear of the line and place her packages on the conveyor belt in front of Zeinab, as if my wife didn't exist. Indignantly, Zeinab would glare at the woman and dump her packages at the back of the line -- or even go so far as to grab the woman by the collar to make her point.
Whenever my wife would come to the airport to pick me up, she'd often have to fend off several Arab men, who assumed that, as a black woman, she was somehow immediately "available" to their desires, whether she was married or not.
One afternoon, as we ate lunch at our favorite restaurant in Cairo's sprawling Khan el-Khalili market, we noticed two scowling Egyptian women staring at us from across the room. I left Zeinab to go to the restroom. As I returned to our table, one of the women who had been glaring at us earlier, an older Egyptian woman, accosted me.
"Don't you know better?" she asked in Arabic. "How dare you bring a woman like that into a place like this?"
As far as this woman was concerned, Zeinab, dressed casually in slacks, her hair in braids, was obviously a "Sudanese prostitute," and I was taken to be her Arab "john." Certainly, in her eyes, no respectable Egyptian man would ever cavort publicly with a black woman.
"Excuse me, ma'am," I replied politely in Arabic, "you've made a mistake. That woman is my wife."
My protests were futile. The woman kept tugging indelicately on my sleeve, castigating me for my "scandalous" public behavior.
Before I left Cairo, I met a group of sub-Saharan African students enrolled at the prestigious al-Azhar University. They told me about the racial harassment they were subjected to on a daily basis on the streets of Cairo by Egyptian Arabs.
"I learned something much different from what I believed," said Bala, a native of northern Nigeria and a graduate student at the American University in Cairo, who lived in Egypt for six years. "I thought [the Arabs] were our brothers in Islam, but they don't bother about that when you're black. ... They pretend that you are a brother in Islam, but this is different from what they hold in their hearts and in their minds."
He told me that for many Muslims from sub-Saharan Africa, the spiritual solidarity with Egyptian Muslims was misplaced. "I was coming out of masjid [mosque] in a place called Dar-el-Malik," Bala said. "So we used to say 'Salaam' to one another when we came out of salat [prayer]. There was one child, called Mohamed, and we were used to shaking hands with him. And one day, I came out to shake his hand and he refused. He told me his father told him never to shake hands with a Sudani -- that is black. So he is telling me his father told him he cannot say, 'Salaam,' to any [Africans]."
Through Bala, I met other African students, including some who were studying at al-Azhar University, with the hope of returning to their native lands as imams and religious scholars. Some of the students told me that they experienced racism within al-Azhar to such an extent that they eventually renounced their vows as Muslims.
Some Egyptians, they told me, called Africans hounga (a nonsense word) or asked, "What time is it?" This was apparently done so that the sub-Saharan Africans would look down and be reminded of their dark-skinned wrists, where their watches might be. The jokesters would immediately laugh, but the Africans wouldn't catch on to the joke until much later.
"Egyptians ask you if you live in trees," Bala said. "Or, 'Why are you black?' 'Is your country hot?' So, this is how we know that there is something called racism here. We are Muslims, not because of the Arabs, but Muslims despite what the Arabs have done to us. Even my worst enemy, I would not ask him to come to Egypt for studies, let alone my son."
Wow. Initially, as i read the unbolded paragragh, i was going to say that women say Cairo men in general are sexually harassing because Middle Eastern cultures so repressed compared to Western cities like NY. Then i read on about the two dumb bitches and his wife Zeinab.
Speaking of Egyptian culture, and Middle Eastern culture in general, i find it cool people thought of such a concept (hijab), i think it's the same reason some people dress and look like sh%! here (goth, punk, non-caring white guy / girl, triflent black guy / chick, funky fresh, ghetto styles, etc) but i think in instances with how chicks can get in any culture (jealous or overly prude) it must be tough.
quote:Originally posted by astenb: The more mature Egyptians are not dumb. The writing in the original post talks about race issues in Egypt and how Egyptians have issues with its darker People. Those SAME Egyptians that have issues with the darker people know FULL WELL those "darkies" look like the images posted by Djehuti and not like themselves. They know it and they will tell you. They dont really try to appropriate the culture at all, or albeit in a larger Egyptian sense as "Egyptian" being a nationality. A lot of the northern Egyptians stress their Turkish, Syrian, Arab, Greek, etc ancestry. At least this is what I experience. They recognize while they may have issues with Dark skinned people, Dark skinned images are the majority in damn near every temple in the building.
posted
It is sad that the Egyptian identity has been tainted in such a manner. One thing that bothers me, Is how these so called Egyptians that inhabit the Nile delta; know of their foreign ancestry, and still wholeheartedly consider themselves Egyptian. Yet when they see an Egyptian with black skin, they give them an ethnic label of Nubian before they classify them as Egyptian. To me that is contradictory, whether they be Nubian or Egyptian if they are birthed on soil of Egypt, they have more right to the identity of Egyptian then any of these buffoons.
The sense of superiority arises in any society with variation of skin color. It happens here amongst African Americans, in India, Brazil, Dominican republic, everywhere. Ignorant inane individuals who have an IQ of below 60 will be the ones to create these issues.
I have noticed such demeanor in every culture. However I will never agree to "Egyptian are racist", because every true Egyptian I have known(meaning dark skinned has never shown any sort of austerity towards their African Kin). The only ones whom I would say are racist in Egypt are elite natives of foreign ancestory(Albanian,arab,syrian, greek,french,turk,arabetc..) or the ignorant few with low IQ's. Ancient Kemet has been a civilization known to accept anyone who took the culture and became part of the people. Whomever resides in Egypt today, needs to understand, it does not matter who invades Egypt, if you live on the African soil of Egypt, and want to take the identity of an Egyptian; Know that this identity also comes with the African one. You just can't take part of the package.
Posts: 671 | Registered: Feb 2004
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They're pretentious Sand Niggers. They took the worlds greatest civilizations (Egypt and the middle east) and turned them into backwaters who can't even feed themselves. North Africa USED to be the breadbasket for Europe, after the Sand Niggers, Europe feeds North Africa.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Blah, blah, blah.
They're pretentious Sand Niggers. They took the worlds greatest civilizations (Egypt and the middle east) and turned them into backwaters who can't even feed themselves. North Africa USED to be the breadbasket for Europe, after the Sand Niggers, Europe feeds North Africa.
Was that aimed towards me.. if it was i will make sure to ignore your every post from now on. This reflects on your lack of maturity. I will wait till your mature enough. Sometimes it takes people a bit longer then others. It will happen though Joe! Just give it time.
Posts: 671 | Registered: Feb 2004
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^ I don't think Mike meant any insult towards you. He is just replying to what you just said.
quote:Originally posted by Truthcentric:
quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing: He's not. He's only feigning moral outrage. Cant you tell? He isn't really concerned about anti-black racism which is why he will apologize for Israelis and white Jews but get so "outraged" at Arab racism. Mary knows how to put on an act. LOL
Where has Djehuti apologized for Israelis and white Jews who are racist against black people? In all the years I've spent on this message board, I don't recall him ever saying anything like that.
LOL Don't worry Brandon. There is no need to even bother addressing the anguishedhomosexual. I am against ALL racism in all its forms whether the perpetrators are white (or not) and regardless of whether the victims are black (or not). As usual the idiot complains of racist white Jews when in fact the whites which were sympathetic and aided blacks the most were Jews. Of course he thinks otherwise and will no doubt go into his black-nazi rant about Jews. Who cares. In the mean time he will call me "Mary" out of fear of any real Jewish ladies by that name. Posts: 26252 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by multisphinx: It is sad that the Egyptian identity has been tainted in such a manner. One thing that bothers me, Is how these so called Egyptians that inhabit the Nile delta; know of their foreign ancestry, and still wholeheartedly consider themselves Egyptian. Yet when they see an Egyptian with black skin, they give them an ethnic label of Nubian before they classify them as Egyptian. To me that is contradictory, whether they be Nubian or Egyptian if they are birthed on soil of Egypt, they have more right to the identity of Egyptian then any of these buffoons...
This is the insanity that bothers me the most. It is the equivalent of white Mexicans trying to claim the Aztec civilization as their heritage while denigrating the actual brown Natives or 'Indios' as foreigners!! It is absurd and ridiculous to say the least, but I think Western Euro-racist scholarship is also to blame for this mentality.
Posts: 26252 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Dr. Muhammad Arabi is right to link Upper Egyptians as Africans....But we can't forget that there is Fellahin in Lower Egypt as well as Egyptians with Eurasian ancestry.
I respect your words more then any other people on these forum Multi because you are a True Egyptian who speaks from experience. We need more Egyptians to come and speak about AE hopefully with you coming back will strengthen some Egyptians that read these forums to post.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by multisphinx: Whomever resides in Egypt today, needs to understand, it does not matter who invades Egypt, if you live on the African soil of Egypt, and want to take the identity of an Egyptian; Know that this identity also comes with the African one. You just can't take part of the package.
That depends on whether you consider old Kemet to be an essential part of a modern Egyptian identity. Here in the US, most of us don't really consider Native American cultures as forming a necessary part of a modern American identity; in fact, Native Americans feel incensed when whites try to lay claim to their cultures. If modern Egyptians don't consider ancient Egypt as part of their national identity, then they are not obligated to identify with Africans any more than I am obligated to identify with Native Americans just because I am a citizen of the USA. If, on the other hand, modern Egyptians do lay claim to ancient Egypt, then you're right, they have no choice but to admit that they are at least part African.
Posts: 7079 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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^ Mind you Egypt is in a unique situation contrasted with those of other 'Arab' North African countries, in that the pre-Arab, indigenous African culture is renowned and famous the world over. Again, Western Euro-racism is also to blame for the denial that the pharaonic people who built the pyramids and such were black. It was Western racism that taught the Afrangi that blacks are incapable of civilization and that pharaonic culture is the product of very dark caucasians.
Posts: 26252 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness: The CIA World factbook says that demographically Egypt is 99.6% Egyptian
Yeah, and from what we know that is vague.In Egypt as long you are culturally Egyptian you are Egyptian(which is also vague). It has nothing to do with the racial construct. That 99.6% means nothing in terms of actual ancestry to Ancient Egyptians(many people may believe it does). It is just how the people classify themselves today. People living in Egypt no matter their skin color, shape, physical characteristics, if they were born in Egypt, classify themselves as Egyptian. Its not like here in the states where we all are segmented in our own ethnic groups according to our racial social construct/linage.
Posts: 671 | Registered: Feb 2004
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LOL @ the lyingdumbass citing the CIA's claim about Egyptian nationality. Nobody is arguing about the nationality of most Egyptians. Of course the vast majority of Egyptians have been living in Egypt for generations! The question is which ones have ancestry in the multiple invasions that have occurred since the fall of pharonic civilization??
I'm sure even the lyingass knows that Egypt was invaded by Assyrians, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Arabs, and Turks, with Circassians and Albanians sprinkled here and there. Hell many of the Afrangi even have surnames that betray their ethnic origins.
I'm sure by the same CIA book over 90% of people in the U.S. are 'Americans' also, that doesn't say whether or not they are indigenous, which we all know indigenous Americans only make up a very small fraction as they were mostly wiped out by European settlers.
Posts: 26252 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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[QUOTE]Thanks for the post - now I know why Zahi used to make crude jokes about sub-Saharan Africans. I would say something but I'll reserve for now.
I shudder to think how many southern Egyptians also are being treated when settling in Cairo . So much for their "democracy rally" as well where I didn't see virtually any dark-skinned people.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness: The CIA World factbook says that demographically Egypt is 99.6% Egyptian
Yeah, and from what we know that is vague.In Egypt as long you are culturally Egyptian you are Egyptian(which is also vague). It has nothing to do with the racial construct. That 99.6% means nothing in terms of actual ancestry to Ancient Egyptians(many people may believe it does). It is just how the people classify themselves today. People living in Egypt no matter their skin color, shape, physical characteristics, if they were born in Egypt, classify themselves as Egyptian. Its not like here in the states where we all are segmented in our own ethnic groups according to our racial social construct/linage.
Lyin'ass knows this already Multisphinx. She's just trollin' around again trying to raise people's ire.
What about your part of Egypt, multisphinx. Didn't someone say you were an Egyptian?
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by multisphinx: Whomever resides in Egypt today, needs to understand, it does not matter who invades Egypt, if you live on the African soil of Egypt, and want to take the identity of an Egyptian; Know that this identity also comes with the African one. You just can't take part of the package.
That depends on whether you consider old Kemet to be an essential part of a modern Egyptian identity. Here in the US, most of us don't really consider Native American cultures as forming a necessary part of a modern American identity; in fact, Native Americans feel incensed when whites try to lay claim to their cultures. If modern Egyptians don't consider ancient Egypt as part of their national identity, then they are not obligated to identify with Africans any more than I am obligated to identify with Native Americans just because I am a citizen of the USA. If, on the other hand, modern Egyptians do lay claim to ancient Egypt, then you're right, they have no choice but to admit that they are at least part African.
This is true, Truth. If they want to be tied to ancient Egyptians they don't get to have their cake and spit in it too.lol! Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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^ LOL More like have their cake and sh|t on it! By the way, Ausar has spoken many times about the plight of his people the Fellahin. According to Ausar, historically they were treated no different from slaves. Even today many dark (black) Egyptians are stereotyped as being unintelligent and hot-blooded-- being quick to both violence and sexual actions. Do these stereotypes sound familiar?
Posts: 26252 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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^^Dje or Ausar can you point to the names of any books or in-depth articles on the anti-black racism in Egypt? I don't mean recent incidents re Sudanese immigrants or foreigners, or something like that, but against fellow indigenous Egyptian citizens.
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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St Clair Drake black folks here and there volI and 2
Vol I deals mainly with Pharaohnic era and 2 post..if I remember correctly,unfortunately both volume are collecting dust in a box in N.Y.. Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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Zarahan, I posted a good article on the image o the baladi and fellahin in the archives. The problem with most of the material written is you have to dig deep in Arabic manuscripts. Most sociologists tend to not factor in the plight of the rural dark skinned Egyptian because its not as apparent as racism against sub-Saharan and Sudanese immigrants in Egypt. Here are a few books that can get you started:
Table of contents for Race and identity in the Nile Valley : ancient and modern perspectives / edited by Carolyn Fluehr-Lobban and Kharyssa Rhodes. ( ignore some of the articles but focus on the ones written by African-American anthropologist in Egypt)
Pasha's Peasants Kenneath Cuno is a good book to understand some of the racial idenals that came into Egyptian society from the Ottomans.
This is all I have for know. I will try to complie some data later when I have more time.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Brada, if you would like to trade or sell your copies I would make you an offer. I collect books like Black Folks Here and There.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by ausar: Zarahan, I posted a good article on the image o the baladi and fellahin in the archives. The problem with most of the material written is you have to dig deep in Arabic manuscripts. Most sociologists tend to not factor in the plight of the rural dark skinned Egyptian because its not as apparent as racism against sub-Saharan and Sudanese immigrants in Egypt. Here are a few books that can get you started:
Table of contents for Race and identity in the Nile Valley : ancient and modern perspectives / edited by Carolyn Fluehr-Lobban and Kharyssa Rhodes. ( ignore some of the articles but focus on the ones written by African-American anthropologist in Egypt)
Pasha's Peasants Kenneath Cuno is a good book to understand some of the racial idenals that came into Egyptian society from the Ottomans.
This is all I have for know. I will try to complie some data later when I have more time.
Thanks very much Ausar will check into these. Sounds like fascinating subject matter. That professor Fluehr-Lobban is particularly up on the history and heritage of "Afro-Asiatic" women as well. You reminded me I wanted to contact her soon.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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This is the insanity that bothers me the most. It is the equivalent of white Mexicans trying to claim the Aztec civilization as their heritage while denigrating the actual brown Natives or 'Indios' as foreigners!! It is absurd and ridiculous to say the least, but I think Western Euro-racist scholarship is also to blame for this mentality.
Lol! Let's not forget Easter Island and space men, though.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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