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Author Topic: Halie Selassie - 'I am not a Negro at all'
The Great One
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Menelik himself even stated that he was a 'Caucasian'. This non-African identity was also stated by Haile Selassie.


Quote:
'I am not a Negro at all; I am a Caucasian' the Emperor Menelik told the West Indian pan-Africanist Benito Sylvian who had come to Addis Ababa to solicit the Emperor's leadership in a society for the 'Amelioration of the Negro race.' Haile Sellassie confirmed that view in a declaration to Chief H. O. Davis, a well known Nigerian nationalist, stating that the Ethiopians did not regard themselves as Africans, but as 'a mixed Hamito-Semitic people (2006, John H. Spencer, p. 306)

When Halie Selassie was invaded by Mussolini's Italian forces in 1935, he had offered to sell large chunks of Ethiopia off to Italy for one and a half milliard Lira. Halie Selassie even offered to have Italian advisors to direct his policies, effectively offering to be a vessel, in return to hold on to some form of power. However, this last ditch effort to hold on to power was rejected by Mussolini.


Quote:
In his desperate act to hold power, Haile Selassie now made a secret peace overture to Mussolini, sending a former Ethiopian Minister in Rome to contact the Italian consul in Djibouti. He offered to sell a large part of Ethiopia to Italy for one and half milliard Lira and to appoint six Italian advisors to direct the policy of his government. Mussolini sent sourteous reply to the intermediary, expressing his pleasure that the Negus had at last decided to negotiate directly with him; but he said the offer was unacceptable." (1997, by Jasper Godwin Ridley, p.270)

After Haile Selassie fled to London, he snubbed the black nationalist Marcus Gravey because he was black.


Quote:
When Haile Selassie fled to London, Gravey tried to contact him but was snubbed, and it was reported that "the emperor did not desire any contact with 'Negroes.'" (1963, Harold Robert Isaacs, p. 153)

Unhappy with the being snubbed, the famous Marcus Gravey wrote the following quote about Halie Selassie:


Quote:
Mussolini of Italy has conquered Haile Selassie of Abyssinia, but he has not conquered the Abyssinians nor Abyssinia. The Emperor of Abyssinia allowed himself to be conquered, by playing white, by trusting to white advisers and by relying white Governments, including the white League of Nations.We can remember in 1920 inviting the Government of Abyssinia to send representatives to the International Convention of the Negro Peoples of the world in common with other Negro Conventions, the Abyssinian Government returned the communication unopened. Its policy then, as during the Italo-Abyssinian war, was no doubt to rely completely on the advice and friendship of white people. They ignored Negro relationship[s] from without and throttled Negro aspirations from within. The result was that they dragged along without any racial policy, except that of the ruling classes, believing themselves white and better than the rest, with a right to suppress the darker elements which make up the tremendous population. (2009, By Girma Menelik, p.57)

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The Great One
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Many people find it puzzling how Black Americans and some West Africans seem to worship people who actually don't consider themselves black and some of them actually think of Black Africans as inferior.

If you're going to select a Hero, shouldn't he/she be at least, someone from your own tribe and cares about his people?

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Mike111
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Mau - Can you post a link?
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Djehuti
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^ What Mau posts is actually correct! Unfortunately what he fails to realize or rather admit is that the very term "negro" is a racial term that especially back then during Selassie's time is limited to very narrow phenotype. As such many blacks who did not confirm to such a phenotype were classified as Hamites or 'black-skinned' caucasians. This was done to the Egyptians and closely related peoples such as Ethiopians. The stigma and negative stereotypes associated with "negro" did not help either which is why Selassie and many Africans like him educated (brainwashed) by Euro-Western elite tried to distance themselves from the term and peoples associated with it.

But make no mistake. Racial terms like "negro" and "caucasoid" do not exist. But it does not change the fact that Egyptians were indeed black Africans and western anthropologists since the 1800s have classified Egyptians to be of the "Abyssinian" (Ethiopian) type.

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The Great One
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quote:

But make no mistake. Racial terms like "negro" and "caucasoid" do not exist. But it does not change the fact that Egyptians were indeed black Africans and western anthropologists since the 1800s have classified Egyptians to be of the "Abyssinian" (Ethiopian) type.


This makes as little sense as the kid with the stickers (fewer this time).

It does not matter what the Western World thinks, because these people know their history better than anyone else. Most of them have do not consider themselves the same people as West Africans, regardless of the useless labels.

Basically, the people from the Horn of Africa and/or Yemen are a separate and distinct people who mixed somewhat with people from other parts of Africa and also with people from the Arabian Peninsula.

So basically, the kids does not know what the hell he is saying, except that he thinks the world goes according to what his White Masters Have Told Him.

--------------------
Chairman Mau

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The Explorer
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quote:
Originally posted by Mau:

some West Africans seem to worship people who actually don't consider themselves black

Examples? Why do you worship both Europeans and Arabs?
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Zioncity
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I cant lie that Garvey quote on Hailie Selassie is new to me. Here is i believe the whole editorial.

http://www.assatashakur.org/forum/shoulders-our-freedom-fighters/9759-marcus-garvey-speaks-haile-selassie-i.html


I personally respect Garvey above any other black revolutionary. Did Hailie Sellasie ever respong to Garvey before i write him off as a ellout

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Djehuti
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That's because Ma'Ass is one of European (Circassian) and Arab (white Syrian) descent.
quote:
Originally posted by Ma'Ass:

This makes as little sense as the kid with the stickers (fewer this time).

Actually it makes perfect sense to one who uses his brain. And I'm not a kid but a grown man. Get it right.

quote:
It does not matter what the Western World thinks, because these people know their history better than anyone else. Most of them have do not consider themselves the same people as West Africans, regardless of the useless labels.
And where did I say these people were the "same" as West Africans?? [Confused]

quote:
Basically, the people from the Horn of Africa and/or Yemen are a separate and distinct people who mixed somewhat with people from other parts of Africa and also with people from the Arabian Peninsula.
LOL It is YOU who makes no sense! Exactly what basis do the people of the Horn of Africa or the Nile Valley (including Egypt) make them separate or distinct from the rest of Africa?? Genetics has shown that as Africans they are naturally closely related to other Africans. Also where is your proof that they later "mixed" with people from other parts of Africa, since historical records show no such thing?? The Bantu expansion for example never only reached as far as southern Somalia and that's it and never even touched the Ethiopian area.

As usual you speak a lot of nonsense but show nothing to back it up. [Embarrassed]

quote:
So basically, the kid does not know what the hell he is saying, except that he thinks the world goes according to what his White Masters Have Told Him.
LOL Again, I am no kid and I know exactly what I'm talking about unlike YOU! I also don't have any masters white, black, or otherwise, but YOU obviously kiss up to your white masters or rather ancestors while trying to usurp Egypt and other African lands and deprive them of their black heritage! You are a crazy and pathetic fool to say the least. [Big Grin]
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-Just Call Me Jari-
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When Haile Selassie fled to London, Gravey tried to contact him but was snubbed, and it was reported that "the emperor did not desire any contact with 'Negroes.'" (1963, Harold Robert Isaacs, p. 153)
^^^^
This is questionable, If H. Salasse did not want contact with Negros how come he visited Jamaica??

H.I.M. Haile Selassie I's visit to Jamaica was the 2nd stop in a trip to the Caribbean, on a three-nation tour of Trinidad-Tobago, Jamaica and Haiti. In the summer of 1965, Dr. Eric Williams, the Prime Minister of Trinidad and Tobago visited Ethiopia. Dr. Williams invited H.I.M. Haile Selassie I to visit Trinidad, which he did on April l8, 1966 and was greeted by thousands of people lined along the airport route. His tour of this nation included a visit to the Ethiopian Orthodox Church in Trinidad, The House of Parliament and functions arranged by the Prime Minister, he and his official party. He also visited Tobago and then left for Jamaica enroute to Barbados

http://www.jamaicans.com/culture/rasta/visittojamaica.shtml

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-Just Call Me Jari-
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The Real question should be why an Afranji of Russian and Gulf Arab decent is trying to claim a culture that never represented his "Tribe"...

Whats wrong Dirk, nothing of importance to claim in Russia and Arabia that you can be proud of..LOL.


quote:
Originally posted by Mau:
Many people find it puzzling how Black Americans and some West Africans seem to worship people who actually don't consider themselves black and some of them actually think of Black Africans as inferior.

If you're going to select a Hero, shouldn't he/she be at least, someone from your own tribe and cares about his people?


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-Just Call Me Jari-
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What is this B.S rant about "West" African/African american/East African B.S.

Did you know more Africans were taken from the Ports of Mozambique and Madagascar than Corte d Ivory and Liberia??

Hell some posters here found out their DNA links to East Africa so they were probably decendants of these unfortunate folks taken from the East.

Also many Africans were taken from the Interior, so please STFU trying to tell us Africans what to say and think about our Leaders including Halle Sallasse(Peace be Upon Him).

I don't see you filthy ass saying **** about Africans upholding some Dirt poor Savage Arab, Muhammed Ibn Abdulla(Piss be Upon that bastard)....and you try to question our respect for our own people.

Halle Salasse was not perfect nor was Garvey. But I have and will have more respect for Salasse over some peice of **** Arab.

 -
^^^^^^
God Bless Ethiopia!!!
quote:
Originally posted by Mau:
Many people find it puzzling how Black Americans and some West Africans seem to worship people who actually don't consider themselves black and some of them actually think of Black Africans as inferior.

If you're going to select a Hero, shouldn't he/she be at least, someone from your own tribe and cares about his people?


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Djehuti
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Whether this claim by Halie Selassie is true or not, it's obvious that this thread is nothing more than another desperate troll tactic of separating and white-washing the Horn from the rest of Africa due to Egyptians' affinities with the people of that region.

Of course it ain't working!
quote:
Originally posted by Just call me Jari:

The Real question should be why an Afranji of Russian and Gulf Arab decent is trying to claim a culture that never represented his "Tribe"...

Whats wrong Dirk, nothing of importance to claim in Russia and Arabia that you can be proud of..LOL.

LMAO [Big Grin]

Why is a person of Russian and Gulf Arab (Persian) descent so fixated on Egypt and its people and so desperate to white wash them is beyond me.

The guy is definitely a crazy khawaga! [Big Grin]

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IronLion
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quote:
Originally posted by Mau:
Menelik himself even stated that he was a 'Caucasian'. This non-African identity was also stated by Haile Selassie.


Quote:
'I am not a Negro at all; I am a Caucasian' the Emperor Menelik told the West Indian pan-Africanist Benito Sylvian who had come to Addis Ababa to solicit the Emperor's leadership in a society for the 'Amelioration of the Negro race.' Haile Sellassie confirmed that view in a declaration to Chief H. O. Davis, a well known Nigerian nationalist, stating that the Ethiopians did not regard themselves as Africans, but as 'a mixed Hamito-Semitic people (2006, John H. Spencer, p. 306)

blah...blah...blah...

THE ETYMOLOGY AND MEANING OF HAMITO-SEMITIC:

Friedrich Müller named the traditional "Hamito-Semitic" family in 1876 in his Grundriss der Sprachwissenschaft.

He defined it as consisting of a Semitic group plus a "Hamitic" group containing Egyptian, (black African) Berber (black African), and Cushitic (black African); he excluded the Chadic group (Black African). These classifications relied in part on non-linguistic anthropological and racial argument.


So what is your fuss about? I am Hamitic too. Mau, it is fi your Turkic arse that is a negro you hear me, your Turkic arse is a negro! [Big Grin] [Big Grin]

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Djehuti
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^ Indeed. The phylum was later changed to Afro-asiatic simply because there is no racial basis such as 'Hamitic' (black caucasian) and that there is no division between those languages in Africa (Hamitic) and Semitic (which is also spoken in Africa). Of course later the name became Afrasian due to the problem of associating it with Asia when it originated in Africa and Semitic is the only branch spoken in Asia meaning that Africans migrated to Asia (Levant and Arabia) and brought Semitic there in the first place!
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IronLion
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quote:
Originally posted by Zioncity:
I cant lie that Garvey quote on Hailie Selassie is new to me. Here is i believe the whole editorial.

http://www.assatashakur.org/forum/shoulders-our-freedom-fighters/9759-marcus-garvey-speaks-haile-selassie-i.html


I personally respect Garvey above any other black revolutionary. Did Hailie Sellasie ever respong to Garvey before i write him off as a ellout

Few months after Garvey said those words, he had a stroke that paralysed his entire left side. He died two months later.

Know ye still, that Garvey and Selassie I are two ancient warrior twins, like Moses and Aaron, Elijah and Elisha, like Jesus and John the Baptizer, they keep on trodding again and again to do the good work through the ages. But they still have their disagreements, yes, but in the end, they work for one common united cause.

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-Just Call Me Jari-
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EXACTLY!!

Plus so what, Halle Salasse was our people he visited Jamiaca and Spoke up against the Racist White Apartied/Jim Crow Establishment.

Halle Salasse like Brother Garvey were African Royalty, descended from a Line of Kings. Asiatics and Europeans should bow and scrape before his Visage like they Bowed before the Suten of Kemet!!! Flowing through their veins was the blood of Moshiach Yeshuah, the blood of Seti, Menelik, and Taharqo!!!

Why is it that the people trying to disrespect and down talk our Ethiopian King are always Whites and Arabs and Abaza Russian/Gulf Arab barbarics.

God Bless Ethiopia, Egypt, and Kush!!!

Don't let these Asiatics steal her culture and disrespect her Royal Kings!!

quote:
Originally posted by IronLion:
quote:
Originally posted by Zioncity:
I cant lie that Garvey quote on Hailie Selassie is new to me. Here is i believe the whole editorial.

http://www.assatashakur.org/forum/shoulders-our-freedom-fighters/9759-marcus-garvey-speaks-haile-selassie-i.html


I personally respect Garvey above any other black revolutionary. Did Hailie Sellasie ever respong to Garvey before i write him off as a ellout

Few months after Garvey said those words, he had a stroke that paralysed his entire left side. He died two months later.

Know ye still, that Garvey and Selassie I are two ancient warrior twins, like Moses and Aaron, Elijah and Elisha, like Jesus and John the Baptizer, they keep on trodding again and again to do the good work through the ages. But they still have their disagreements, yes, but in the end, they work for one common united cause.


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-Just Call Me Jari-
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quote:
Originally posted by IronLion:

So what is your fuss about? I am Hamitic too. Mau, it is fi your Turkic arse that is a negro you hear me, your Turkic arse is a negro! [Big Grin] [Big Grin]

Don't be fooled, this "Mau" character is not a Turk or Afro-Turk, he is the Abaza Troll..a Russian Descended Egyptian who admitted to Aswani in Arabic that he was of Gulf Arab Decent...

Abaza Family

The Abaza clan, "deeply rooted in Egyptian society and... in the history of the country" [1 http://www.bibalex.org/alexcinema/actors/Rushdi_Abaza.html] is a popular, well-known and influential aristocratic Egyptian family that plays a powerful and long-standing role in Egyptian economic, intellectual and political life. Their main stronghold is the Sharqia Governorate in the Nile Delta.

The family is noted for producing a large number of noble Pashas, Beks/Beys, Hanims, "Saheb" or "Sahebet Ezza", "Saada", "Maaly", and "Ossma", intellectuals, politicians, business people and men of letters. It is considered the largest extended family in Egypt. In addition several living Abazas hold the title 'His or Her Excellency', for example serving ministers in government or serving diplomats.

Historical Overview

The Abaza family originated in Abazinia, a region in north Georgia bordering the Caucasus mountains. However, intermarriage into native Egyptian families, specifically native upper class families, was and remains common for Abazas thus ensuring native Egyptian ancestry for the entire clan.

The Abazins were one of several Muslim ethnic groups living in the Russian Empire who emigrated during the Muhajir (Caucasus) in the mid-19th century, although some sources indicate that the Egyptian Abazas emigrated 600-800 years ago. Many moved to Turkey, but later emigrated again and settled in various Arab countries. In their new Arab home, the Abazins took – or were given – the last name "Abaza".

Afaf Lutfi Sayyid-Marsot in the study, Egypt in the Reign of Muhammad Ali, makes mention of a traditional belief amongst the Egyptian Abaza Family that they were named after a "beloved grandmother...or her place of birth". Family elders sat on the majlis created by Ibrahim Pasha, "uhda" (or royal endowments) of villages and land were obtained by the Family and "the Abaza flourished" (pp.123-124).

During the accession of the young King Farouk, "the Abaza family had solicited palace authorities to permit the royal train to stop briefly in their village so that the king could partake in refreshments offered in a large, magnificently ornamented tent they had erected in the train station." [http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2005/762/chrncls.htm Al-Ahram Weekly

Members of the Egyptian Abaza clan consider themselves a family, and are categorized as a 'family' or 'clan' in the country in which they are well-known.

There is also a town in Russia named Abaza (town).

Notable Egyptian Abaza

Living Figures

* Hussien Abaza Wagih Abaza- Chairman of Peugeot Egypt and Member of the El Shura Council (the Second Egyptian House of Parliament).
* Amin Abaza- current Minister of Agriculture.
* Ahmed Tarek Ola-abaza- a composer and academic.
* Mahmoud Abaza, President of the Wafd Party and Member of Parliament.
* Mahmoud Ahmed Sherif Abaza- nominated to represent Egypt in the Global Young Leaders Conference in New York, USA.
* Fekry Pasha Abaza- a famous writer and a former Pasha.
* Walid Hamdy Abaza- senior sales manger at EMAAR misr.
* Wagih Kamal Abaza- Chief District Attorney in Cairo.
* Amr Hamdy Abaza- a graduated student From the AAST, Industrial and Management Engineering Department.
* Magdy Kamal Abaza- Undersecretary of the Ministry of Investment and Chairman of PortSaid Free Zone.
* Mohammed Samir Abaza- The head of one of the Abaza family offshoots that traveled to and lived in Bahrain.

Deceased Figures

* The Sheikh of the Arabs, Hassan Abaza- an 19th Century family leader.
* The Sheikh of the Arabs, Boghdadi Abaza- an 19th Century family leader.
* Wagih Abaza- during 1950–1952 Abaza was in charge of the commandos against the British, founder of Peugeot Egypt and former governor of Cairo and Damanhour and one of the Free Officers along with Gamal Abdul Nasser.
* Tharwat Abaza- a novelist in modern Egyptian literature.
* Fouad Abaza Pasha.
* Aziz Pasha Abaza- a popular and well-known poet in Egypt.
* Rushdy Abaza- a popular actor in Egypt and the Arab World.
* Maher Abaza- a former Minister of Energy for 17 years.
* Ibrahim Desouqy Abaza Pasha.
* Doctor Mahmoud Bek Soliman Abaza
* Abd-Allah Bek Fekry Abaza
* El-Hajj Wasfy Bek Abaza

There was also a noble Russian-Greek Abaza family, of which Alexander Abaza was a member.

External links

* [http://www.presidency.gov.eg/html/the_cabinet.html Amin Abaza on Egyptian Presidency Site ]
* [http://www.bibalex.org/alexcinema/actors/Rushdi_Abaza.html Rushdi Abaza on Egyptian State Information Service Site]
* [http://www.sis.gov.eg/VR/figures/english/html/Aziz%20Abaza.htm Aziz Abaza on Egyptian State Information Service Site]
* [http://www.dailystaregypt.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=1781 Mahmoud Abaza on a Media Site]
* [http://www.peugeot.com.eg/abaza/profile.htm Wagih Abaza]
* [http://www.sis.gov.eg/VR/figures/english/html/mourad.htm Layla Mourad on Egyptian State Information Service Site]
* [http://articles.latimes.com/2002/mar/19/local/me-passings19.1_Abaza.html Tharwat Abaza's Death on a Media Site]

References

* [1 http://www.bibalex.org/alexcinema/actors/Rushdi_Abaza.html]
* [http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=KCz7N-GYKRcC&pg=PA123&dq=abaza+family&client=firefox-a&sig=ACfU3U1T4j1N2a1kVfPEUr23D95c3vusSA Egypt in the Reign of Muhammad Ali]

http://en.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enwiki/558424 [Big Grin]


The Abaza Troll admits to Aswani he is a Gulf Arab..

Wow BigMo told me in Arabic he was a Mukhtaba from Saudi Arabia and that he knew that the black africans were the innocent doves of ancient egypt.

How did U and Ausar come to the conclusion that BigMo is a Circassian what did u do a backround check and DNA test.


http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=003483

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The Great One
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:
Mau - Can you post a link?


Mike, I don't need to post a link, because I have just destroyed All These "House Negroes" with Simple Facts.


It is actually quite easy to beat people who are so wrapped up in their wishful fantasy.

You can always tell when you have spoken the truth and defeated them, when they start tripping over themselves to launch multiple attacks on your character. Sady, these House Negroes' ears would perk up when some Idiot White Writer tells them something they like.

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The Explorer
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quote:
Originally posted by Mau:


just destroyed All These "House Negroes" with Simple Facts.

Spoken like a true "friend" of "black people". With friends like this, who needs the ku klux klan?
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osirion
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lamin
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A question of semantics?

When 20th century West Africans first traveled to the U.S. from Africa, one way they got around segregation laws in restaurants and public places was to wear African clothing and deny being "negroes". The whites accepted it and let them pass[pun intended].

Was it Selassie who changed the name of his homeland from Abyssinia to Ethiopia? If so, that would be ironic because "Ethiopia", according to white historians was seen as the "land of the negroes".

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IronLion
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quote:
Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
quote:
Originally posted by IronLion:

So what is your fuss about? I am Hamitic too. Mau, it is fi your Turkic arse that is a negro you hear me, your Turkic arse is a negro! [Big Grin] [Big Grin]

Don't be fooled, this "Mau" character is not a Turk or Afro-Turk, he is the Abaza Troll..a Russian Descended Egyptian who admitted to Aswani in Arabic that he was of Gulf Arab Decent...

Abaza Family

The Abaza clan, "deeply rooted in Egyptian society and... in the history of the country" [1 http://www.bibalex.org/alexcinema/actors/Rushdi_Abaza.html] is a popular, well-known and influential aristocratic Egyptian family that plays a powerful and long-standing role in Egyptian economic, intellectual and political life. Their main stronghold is the Sharqia Governorate in the Nile Delta.

The family is noted for producing a large number of noble Pashas, Beks/Beys, Hanims, "Saheb" or "Sahebet Ezza", "Saada", "Maaly", and "Ossma", intellectuals, politicians, business people and men of letters. It is considered the largest extended family in Egypt. In addition several living Abazas hold the title 'His or Her Excellency', for example serving ministers in government or serving diplomats.

Historical Overview

The Abaza family originated in Abazinia, a region in north Georgia bordering the Caucasus mountains. However, intermarriage into native Egyptian families, specifically native upper class families, was and remains common for Abazas thus ensuring native Egyptian ancestry for the entire clan.

The Abazins were one of several Muslim ethnic groups living in the Russian Empire who emigrated during the Muhajir (Caucasus) in the mid-19th century, although some sources indicate that the Egyptian Abazas emigrated 600-800 years ago. Many moved to Turkey, but later emigrated again and settled in various Arab countries. In their new Arab home, the Abazins took – or were given – the last name "Abaza".

Afaf Lutfi Sayyid-Marsot in the study, Egypt in the Reign of Muhammad Ali, makes mention of a traditional belief amongst the Egyptian Abaza Family that they were named after a "beloved grandmother...or her place of birth". Family elders sat on the majlis created by Ibrahim Pasha, "uhda" (or royal endowments) of villages and land were obtained by the Family and "the Abaza flourished" (pp.123-124).

During the accession of the young King Farouk, "the Abaza family had solicited palace authorities to permit the royal train to stop briefly in their village so that the king could partake in refreshments offered in a large, magnificently ornamented tent they had erected in the train station." [http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2005/762/chrncls.htm Al-Ahram Weekly

Members of the Egyptian Abaza clan consider themselves a family, and are categorized as a 'family' or 'clan' in the country in which they are well-known.

There is also a town in Russia named Abaza (town).

Notable Egyptian Abaza

Living Figures

* Hussien Abaza Wagih Abaza- Chairman of Peugeot Egypt and Member of the El Shura Council (the Second Egyptian House of Parliament).
* Amin Abaza- current Minister of Agriculture.
* Ahmed Tarek Ola-abaza- a composer and academic.
* Mahmoud Abaza, President of the Wafd Party and Member of Parliament.
* Mahmoud Ahmed Sherif Abaza- nominated to represent Egypt in the Global Young Leaders Conference in New York, USA.
* Fekry Pasha Abaza- a famous writer and a former Pasha.
* Walid Hamdy Abaza- senior sales manger at EMAAR misr.
* Wagih Kamal Abaza- Chief District Attorney in Cairo.
* Amr Hamdy Abaza- a graduated student From the AAST, Industrial and Management Engineering Department.
* Magdy Kamal Abaza- Undersecretary of the Ministry of Investment and Chairman of PortSaid Free Zone.
* Mohammed Samir Abaza- The head of one of the Abaza family offshoots that traveled to and lived in Bahrain.

Deceased Figures

* The Sheikh of the Arabs, Hassan Abaza- an 19th Century family leader.
* The Sheikh of the Arabs, Boghdadi Abaza- an 19th Century family leader.
* Wagih Abaza- during 1950–1952 Abaza was in charge of the commandos against the British, founder of Peugeot Egypt and former governor of Cairo and Damanhour and one of the Free Officers along with Gamal Abdul Nasser.
* Tharwat Abaza- a novelist in modern Egyptian literature.
* Fouad Abaza Pasha.
* Aziz Pasha Abaza- a popular and well-known poet in Egypt.
* Rushdy Abaza- a popular actor in Egypt and the Arab World.
* Maher Abaza- a former Minister of Energy for 17 years.
* Ibrahim Desouqy Abaza Pasha.
* Doctor Mahmoud Bek Soliman Abaza
* Abd-Allah Bek Fekry Abaza
* El-Hajj Wasfy Bek Abaza

There was also a noble Russian-Greek Abaza family, of which Alexander Abaza was a member.

External links

* [http://www.presidency.gov.eg/html/the_cabinet.html Amin Abaza on Egyptian Presidency Site ]
* [http://www.bibalex.org/alexcinema/actors/Rushdi_Abaza.html Rushdi Abaza on Egyptian State Information Service Site]
* [http://www.sis.gov.eg/VR/figures/english/html/Aziz%20Abaza.htm Aziz Abaza on Egyptian State Information Service Site]
* [http://www.dailystaregypt.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=1781 Mahmoud Abaza on a Media Site]
* [http://www.peugeot.com.eg/abaza/profile.htm Wagih Abaza]
* [http://www.sis.gov.eg/VR/figures/english/html/mourad.htm Layla Mourad on Egyptian State Information Service Site]
* [http://articles.latimes.com/2002/mar/19/local/me-passings19.1_Abaza.html Tharwat Abaza's Death on a Media Site]

References

* [1 http://www.bibalex.org/alexcinema/actors/Rushdi_Abaza.html]
* [http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=KCz7N-GYKRcC&pg=PA123&dq=abaza+family&client=firefox-a&sig=ACfU3U1T4j1N2a1kVfPEUr23D95c3vusSA Egypt in the Reign of Muhammad Ali]

http://en.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enwiki/558424 [Big Grin]


The Abaza Troll admits to Aswani he is a Gulf Arab..

Wow BigMo told me in Arabic he was a Mukhtaba from Saudi Arabia and that he knew that the black africans were the innocent doves of ancient egypt.

How did U and Ausar come to the conclusion that BigMo is a Circassian what did u do a backround check and DNA test.


http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=003483

Georgians, Albanians, Circassians, Armenians, Azerbaijanians, all TURKS!

Abaza is no different. Just another Turk. Different tribals of Turks. But yet a pinkish Turk.

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Sundjata
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quote:
Originally posted by Mau:
Many people find it puzzling how Black Americans and some West Africans seem to worship people

Worship of Haile Selassie is drastically restricted to Rastafarianism first of all, most Black Americans don't give Selassie a second thought in their daily lives. You generalizing Black America based on a Jamaican religion simply shows your miserable state of ignorance and racist stereotypes (fabricated at that. This isn't even a MAINSTREAM stereotype!) and desperation to separate West Africans from the rest of the continent. Why you despise ALL west Africans so much is just so silly to me, honestly, the VAST majority doesn't care anything about you, Selassie, or Egypt. Facts stand on their own.


Secondly, If Selassie indeed stated that "the Ethiopians did not regard themselves as Africans, but as 'a mixed Hamito-Semitic people

^Where the hell would he have gotten the idea of a "Hamitio-Semitic" person? This is an antiquated anthropological term that has since been discarded. It is certainly not something Ethiopians would believe as it is derived from early 20th century anthropology.

As a matter of fact, it can be argued that Selassie was simply being a typical politician as Garvey pointed out.
quote:
Originally posted by Mau:
Menelik himself even stated that he was a 'Caucasian'.

 -

^I mean seriously.

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Sundjata
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quote:
Originally posted by Mau:
Mike, I don't need to post a link

First of all, yes you do because you could have made the quote up. Secondly, you did not post the link obviously because you selected a poor quality source from an Eritrean nationalist blog whose primary objective is to discredit Ethiopian imperialism by demonizing its revolutionaries. Food for thought though. If Africans who make a point to distinguish themselves from other Africans [Blacks] is a bad thing to these Eritrean authors, then how does this support your main point for posting this in that Horn Africans supposedly don't identify with other Africans? The whole point of the article, like the Menelik one before it is to express the same "sellout" sentiment that Garvey expressed. So in other words, your own source debunks you! LOL..

http://www.madote.com/2010/03/were-ethiopian-leaders-colonialist.html

^By the way, the ancient Egyptians claimed that their original homeland was Punt (modern Eritrea). [Big Grin]

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Whatbox
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Rofl. [Big Grin] pwned.

Wow.

quote:
Originally posted by IronLion:
Georgians, Albanians, Circassians, Armenians, Azerbaijanians, all TURKS!

Abaza is no different. Just another Turk. Different tribals of Turks. But yet a pinkish Turk.

About this whole Turks deal.

Doesn't Turkey itself have a lot of ancestry from Central Asian tribes such as the Mongolians and other waves? Making it bass-ackwards to call Russians Turks? I read the same was so for the Khazar as well.

Either way this Glider guy is nuts. He hates us so but never gets tired of coming here for the rape to continue. [Frown] [Big Grin]

He's almost always grasping for any little thing that's stupid like "negroes wear earrings the AE didn't" (only for Djehuti to post a dozen plus pictures of paintings and other such things with AE wearing just that). Ausar's right, this guy's a worthless spammer.

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Sundjata
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quote:
Originally posted by Mau:
After Haile Selassie fled to London, he snubbed the black nationalist Marcus Gravey because he was black.


Quote:
When Haile Selassie fled to London, Gravey tried to contact him but was snubbed, and it was reported that "the emperor did not desire any contact with 'Negroes.'" (1963, Harold Robert Isaacs, p. 153)

Unhappy with the being snubbed, the famous Marcus Gravey wrote the following quote about Halie Selassie:


Quote:
Mussolini of Italy has conquered Haile Selassie of Abyssinia, but he has not conquered the Abyssinians nor Abyssinia....

So why didn't he snub J.A. Rogers (A "Negro") and in fact, he presented Rogers with a medal and took 182 copies of his book (great men of color) after his (Selassie's) coronation. Why did he change the name Abyssinia to Ethiopia (a word he knew connoted "Blackness"), and why did he give this address at the African summit of 1963:

quote:
H.I.M. Haile Selassie OAU speech 1963 African Summit

"We welcome to Ethiopia, in Our name and in the name of the Ethiopian Government and people, the Heads of State and Government of independent African nations who are today assembled in solemn conclave in Ethiopia's capital city. This conference, without parallel in history, is an impressive testimonial to the devotion and dedication of which we all partake in the cause of our mother continent and that of her sons and daughters. This is indeed a momentous and historic day for Africa and for all Africans.

We stand today on the stage of world affairs, before the audience of world opinion. We have come together to assert our role in the direction of world affairs and to discharge our duty to the great continent whose two hundred fifty million people we lead. Africa is today at mid- course, in transition from the Africa of yesterday to the Africa of tomorrow. Even as we stand here we move from the past into the future. The task on which we have embarked, the making of Africa, will not wait. We must act, to shape and mould the future and leave our imprint on events as they pass into history.

We seek, at this meeting, to determine whither we are going and to chart the course of our destiny. It is no less important that we know whence we came. An awareness of our past is essential to the establishment of our personality and our identity as Africans. This world was not created piecemeal. Africa was born no later and no earlier than any other geographical area on this globe. Africans, no more and no less than other men, possess all human attributes, talents and deficiencies, virtues and faults. Thousands of years ago, civilizations flourished in Africa which suffer not at all by comparison with those of other continents. In those centuries, Africans were politically free and economically independent. Their social patterns were their own and their cultures truly indigenous. The obscurity which enshrouds the centuries which elapsed between those earliest days and the rediscovery of Africa are being gradually dispersed. What is certain is that during those long years Africans were born, lived and died. Men on other parts of this Earth occupied themselves with their own concerns and, in their conceit, proclaimed that the world began and ended at their horizons. All unknown to them, Africa developed in its own pattern, growing in its own life and, in the nineteenth century, finally re-emerged into the world's consciousness.

The events of the past hundred and fifty years require no extended recitation from Us. The period of colonialism into which we were plunged culminated with our continent fettered and bound, with our once proud and free peoples reduced to humiliation and slavery; with Africa's terrain cross-batched and checkerboarded by artificial and arbitrary boundaries. Many of us, during those bitter years, were overwhelmed in battle, and those who escaped conquest did so at the cost of desperate resistance and bloodshed. Others were sold into bondage as the price extracted by the colonialists for the "protection" which they extended and the possession of which they disposed. Africa was a physical resource to be exploited and Africans were chattels to be purchased bodily or, at best, peoples to be reduced to vassalage and lackeyhood. Africa was the market for the produce of other nations and the source of the raw materials with which their factories were fed.

Today, Africa has emerged from this dark passage. Our armageddon is past. Africa has been reborn as a free continent and Africans have been reborn as free men. The blood that was shed and the sufferings that were endured are today Africa's advocates for freedom and unity. Those men who refused to accept the judgement passed upon them by the colonies, who held unswervingly through the darkest hours to a vision of an Africa emancipated from political, economic and spiritual domination, will be remembered and revered wherever Africans meet. Many of them never set foot on this continent. Others were born and died here. What we may utter today can add little to the heroic struggle of those who, by their example, have shown us how precious are freedom and human dignity and of how little value is life without them. Their deeds are written in history."

H.I.M. Emperor Haile Selassie I

^^All after he no longer needed European assistance as he was firmly established emperor. Also, the above quotes suggesting that he mentioned the words "Negro" and "Hamitic" in an Amharic tongue, is dubious let aside the fact that it's hearsay. No citation from any of his speeches and written works ever expressed this. The only reason an Amhara would claim to be "mixed with Semitic" is through the descent of King Solomon, a deeply ingrained tradition among Habashat and even then, the tradition has always maintained that the Ethiopian population was Black, as the Queen of Sheba was so described in the Kebra Negast, and as they were described by early Greco-roman coastal explorers. Your false dichotomy is beyond ridiculous and your only leg to stand on is to rely on hearsay, that may be mis-translated, that if true, still relies on a myth (three layers of potential bullsh1t). This is worse than your "continents don't exist" cop-out. [Roll Eyes]
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King_Scorpion
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What many people fail to realize is that during Haile Sallasie's time, racial science was at its height not only in Europe, but especially among colonized African populations. Haile certainly was influenced by this. Ethiopia became a vassal state after WWI I believe so the country would have been teeming with Europeans trying to turn the government away from the people and its origins. Weakening it politically and socially which would eventually become the Emporer's downfall...I definitely think the dude was a puppet. Many Ethiopian supporters among the black community in America were shocked by his comments seeing as how many blacks went to Ethiopia to help defend that country from invasion.
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Sundjata
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quote:
Originally posted by King_Scorpion:
[QB] What many people fail to realize is that during Haile Sallasie's time, racial science was at its height not only in Europe, but especially among colonized African populations. Haile certainly was influenced by this.

See my "three levels of potential bullshit" above. We must first establish that he even said anything of the sort before we ponder what may have influenced him to say that. For argument's sake though, that would be a primary motive, as I'd mentioned as well (as far as I know, the term "Hamitio-Semitic" has no Amharic equivalent).
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osirion
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Haile wasn't a Negro since that term was used for Niger/Congo people and Bantu back in those days. Ethiopians are considered non-Negroid or another term for them is Upper Hamites. Its all a bunch of rubbish science from a time when science was used to support the racial apartheid system in the Western dominated world.

I read it somewhere that even Bushmen are not considered Negroes so go figure.

But then look at Haile, I mean really the average Egyptian looks more like an African American more so than that Black Jew.

He'd still sit in the back of the bus with the rest of us.

--------------------
Definition of Insanity: Doing the same thing the same way over and over again but expecting different results.

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Mike111
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quote:
Originally posted by Whatbox:
Rofl. [Big Grin] pwned.

Wow.

quote:
Originally posted by IronLion:
Georgians, Albanians, Circassians, Armenians, Azerbaijanians, all TURKS!

Abaza is no different. Just another Turk. Different tribals of Turks. But yet a pinkish Turk.

About this whole Turks deal.

Doesn't Turkey itself have a lot of ancestry from Central Asian tribes such as the Mongolians and other waves? Making it bass-ackwards to call Russians Turks? I read the same was so for the Khazar as well.

Either way this Glider guy is nuts. He hates us so but never gets tired of coming here for the rape to continue. [Frown] [Big Grin]

He's almost always grasping for any little thing that's stupid like "negroes wear earrings the AE didn't" (only for Djehuti to post a dozen plus pictures of paintings and other such things with AE wearing just that). Ausar's right, this guy's a worthless spammer.

Whatbox - The Mongols used Persia as their base. Genghis Khan's grandson Hülegü Khan headquartered in Persia for many years.

Persia was ruled by Timur, who claimed descent from Genghis Khan's family, and was a member of the Turkicized Barlas tribe, a Mongol subgroup that had settled in Transoxania (now roughly corresponding to Uzbekistan). Timur's dynasty ruled from 1370 – 1506.

The Mongol blood can be seen in some Iranians like Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

 -

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Mike111
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^The "Pink" Turks that Lion spoke of, took control of Persia (Iran) for good with The Qajar dynasty (1796).


 -

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Mike111
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BTW - The reasons why there are so few "Pure" blood Black Persians left:

Genghis Khan invaded with a force of 200,000 men, launching a multi-pronged invasion, his guides were Muslim merchants from Transoxania. During the years 1220–21, Bukhara, Samarkand, Herat (all Central Asian cities), Tus (Susa), and Neyshabur (Persian cities) were razed, and the whole populations were slaughtered. (This represented the first wholesale slaughter of Black Persians).


The second wholesale slaughter of Black Persians occurred as Timur was chasing Tokhtamysh, then khan of the Golden Horde into Russia. Timur decided to occupy Moscow for a year.

Meanwhile, the revolts that broke out all over Persia while Timur was away on these campaigns were repressed with ruthless vigour when he returned. Whole cities were destroyed, their populations massacred, and towers built of their skulls.

All of this was in ADDITION to those massacred by the Arab conquest!

It's a wonder ANY Black Persians are left!

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the lioness,
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Afro Turks
 -

 -

 -

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=004217

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the lioness,
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.


who's blacker?
Volume 2:

 -


 -

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Djehuti
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^ Ignoring the lyingass's dumb fixation/vexation with skin color above...

quote:
Originally posted by Sundjata:

quote:
Originally posted by Ma'Ass:
Mike, I don't need to post a link

First of all, yes you do because you could have made the quote up. Secondly, you did not post the link obviously because you selected a poor quality source from an Eritrean nationalist blog whose primary objective is to discredit Ethiopian imperialism by demonizing its revolutionaries. Food for thought though. If Africans who make a point to distinguish themselves from other Africans [Blacks] is a bad thing to these Eritrean authors, then how does this support your main point for posting this in that Horn Africans supposedly don't identify with other Africans? The whole point of the article, like the Menelik one before it is to express the same "sellout" sentiment that Garvey expressed. So in other words, your own source debunks you! LOL..

http://www.madote.com/2010/03/were-ethiopian-leaders-colonialist.html

^By the way, the ancient Egyptians claimed that their original homeland was Punt (modern Eritrea). [Big Grin]

LMAO The Afrangi idiot is so stupid! [Big Grin]
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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ Ignoring the lioness' dumb fixation/vexation with skin color above...


(where you got trumped on your rhetoric)
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AswaniAswad
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This is The Biggest Lie Ever Emperor Haile Selassie never made such a quote ever.

First off how do come to a King and ask him is he purple or is he yellow or green come on u dont think Atse Haile Selassie knew what they were up too.

If u even knew anything about ethiopia or amharic u would of never said this garbage Mau u must be a al-bey.

Haile Selassie was ask is he negro which at that time really just meant a slave a nobody not even human.

His Majesty responded in Amharic I am not Negro i am Equal to Whites not I am White in Amharic he Said I am Equal to Whites.

I have already repeated this IronLion u remember that thread with that eritrean who was bashing ethiopia, and his majesty

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-Just Call Me Jari-
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^^^^
Good one Aswani, It goes to show why Africans called themselves "Negros" in the first place. His Magesty was of Royal Blood, Royal Lineage, His people never called themselves Negros.

His Magesty's Empire of Abbysinia was never Colonized by Europeans and Arabs, So the Apartied/Jim Crow establishment tried to destroy His Magesty's Legacy!! They could not handle a Black Emperor and King, The Last Remnant of the Nile Valley Royalty in their presence...

 -

 -

Im not a Negro(a Slave), I AM EQUAL TO WHITES!!!-Halle Selassie

God Bless Ethiopia!!!

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The Great One
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness:
.


who's blacker?
Volume 2:

 -


 -

The top one is Red with Caucasoid Features.

The second one is Yellow with Negroid Features.

Neither is Black!

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Sundjata
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^Black is a color no one literally approaches and their physically features are a unique mosaic, like all individuals. Only idiots use words like "Negroid" and "Caucasoid".
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AswaniAswad
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Emperor Haile Selassie Own Words sounds more beautiful in Amharic

.I MUST SAY THAT BLACK AND WHITE, AS FORMS OF SPEECH, AND AS A MEANS OF JUDGING MANKIND, SHOULD BE ELIMINATED FROM HUMAN SOCIETY.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UH7LNI_9nVY

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Djehuti
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quote:
Originally posted by the lyingass:

quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ Ignoring the lioness' dumb fixation/vexation with skin color above...


(where you got trumped on your rhetoric)
Trumped how?! LOL Being a liar is one thing, but you're a bad one. LOL [Big Grin]
quote:
Originally posted by Mau:

quote:
Originally posted by the lioness:
.


who's blacker?
Volume 2:

 -


 -

The top one is Red with Caucasoid Features.

The second one is Yellow with Negroid Features.

Neither is Black!

So what about these people?

 -


 -

 -

 -

 -

^ They sure don't look like the people you love to post in your selective pictures of modern Egyptians! LOL

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Djehuti
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^ I see the kooky khawaga has no response to the above. oh well.
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The Great One
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^

Looks, like the Kid is back with his collage of the same cherry picked pictures.

Does he know anything about admixture? I don't think so, otherwise his "House Negro" brain would have realized that the royals of Egypt were free to select women from various nations, and therefore, their offspring are not always the best Egyptian looking Egyptians.

Case closed, the Kid loses again and goes back into his eternal "House Negro" status.

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Chairman Mau

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Djehuti
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quote:
Originally posted by Ma'Ass:

Looks, like the Kid is back with his collage of the same cherry picked pictures.

Unlike YOU who cherry picks only fair-skinned modern Egyptians or ancient statues or portraits with narrow features whose paint has faded off, the pictures I chose are of important and well known rulers of Egypt's 18th dynasty.

quote:
Does he know anything about admixture? I don't think so, otherwise his "House Negro" brain would have realized that the royals of Egypt were free to select women from various nations, and therefore, their offspring are not always the best Egyptian looking Egyptians.
[Eek!] ROTFLOL [Big Grin]

So you say these royals are "mixed"! And what pray tell are they a mixture of?? By the way, the only Egyptians allowed to rule were those of PURE blood. While Pharaohs were allowed to include any woman from any nation into their harems only children born from royal Egyptian women were considered legitimate heirs!! Even Egyptologists agree that the 18th dynasty originates in Upper Egypt in or around Waset (Thebes) and most of the rulers were born of either incest or alliances with neighboring nobles. So again the question begs what are they mixed with??!

But of course as Ausar has pointed out you know NOTHING about ancient Egyptian history let alone culture and customs. [Big Grin]

quote:
Case closed, the Kid loses again and goes back into his eternal "House Negro" status.
LOL YOU lose again and go back into your eternal "Crazed Khawaga/ Angry Afrangi" status.
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The Explorer
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Ma'Ass man is a reborn again ku klux klansman who calls "blacks" his friends. He still hates on "blacks" but in a "good way", so he says. [Wink]

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Djehuti
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^ Yes and the "good way" is to claim their ancient heritage and culture for him and his off-white kind. LOL [Big Grin]
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The Great One
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^

Blacks is a term that has no meaning at all.

Indians are black, just as Black Africans and Black Americans, there you failed to define Black, and therefore, it is useless.

Sadly, people like you are very closed minded.

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Chairman Mau

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If the term were meaningless, you wouldn't be making these characterizations...

"Indians are black, just as Black Africans and Black Americans, there you failed to define Black, and therefore, it is useless."

You are able to make that statement because you know the meaning of "black".

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the lioness,
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BLACK
 -

GRAY
 -

BROWN
 -

LIGHT BROWN
 -

WHITE
 -

PINK
 -

ORANGISH BEIGE
 -

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