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Author Topic: Racist Fulanis
Apocalypse
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The Explorer wrote
quote:
You overlooked the basics, when you used the word "the fact" in your statement. The error is therefore on your end, not mine. You are trying, crudely, to misplace the blame
This is again a misunderstanding on your part. I wrote "The fact is probably many fulanis" This may not have been the most elegant way of writing but it cannot be read in the manner that you're suggesting by any stretch of the imagination.

quote:
Your statement was based on emotional reaction to watu's claim.
You have no way of knowing or testing this claim. The truth of this statement is unascertainable from your perspective and therefore not worth pursuing.

quote:
But the "Fulani youths" copying hip hop artists like Jay Z et al. and necessarily "embracing hip hop" is not "common knowledge". Not every body knows what the Fulani culture and mannerism is about, and so, cannot presume to know what the Fulani do as "common knowledge".
Another misunderstanding. I've never made any claims about any aspect of Fulani behaviour being common knowledge. I made a claim that a trend affecting people world wide is common knowledge. I then applied this general observation to a particular group and said that it is probably true of this group too.

People regularly make inferences such as this from limited available information.

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Explorador
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quote:
Originally posted by Apocalypse:

This is again a misunderstanding on your part. I wrote "The fact is probably many fulanis"

LOL, next you'll tell an English teacher who flunks you for avoidable basic grammatical errors, that said teacher is the one on the misunderstanding end and that you are the sane one.

quote:

This may not have been the most elegant way of writing but it cannot be read in the manner that you're suggesting by any stretch of the imagination.

Yes, it can. It is the stretch of your imagination that your claim should be read any other way other than that in which it was written.

BTW, do you by any chance know what "fact" means?

quote:


You have no way of knowing or testing this claim.

I did test it and you came up short.

quote:


Another misunderstanding. I've never made any claims about any aspect of Fulani behaviour being common knowledge.

You might as well, since you made an a priori assumption about the Fulani youth and passed it off as "common knowledge", as if to say that you can predict mannerism in Fulani. To predict this mannerism without a tangible premise, is to essentially say--by your logic--that the Fulani culture and mannerism are "common knowledge" such that you can just pick on them and say any a priori statement about their ways, and not be held accountable. You miscalculated.

quote:

I made a claim that a trend affecting people world wide is common knowledge. I then applied this general observation to a particular group and said that it is probably true of this group too.

People regularly make inferences such as this from limited available information.

You can go on broken record mode with that tired old jive above, but the fact remains that you paradoxically passed off an a priori assumption as a fact!
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Apocalypse
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The Explorer wrote:
quote:
LOL, next you'll tell an English teacher who flunks you for avoidable basic grammatical errors, that said teacher is the one on the misunderstanding end and that you are the sane one.


You're not getting any traction with this. The usage that I employed is not unusual. The emphasis is given to the word proably.

quote:
“lol...that­'s rich...the fact is...she probably couldn't afford them now because of her pending "health supplement­" littigatio­n...there could also be another determinin­g factor in her "decision" to adopt...bu­t I won't go there just yet...”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/dtmfman/jillian-michaels-i-wont-r_n_548256_45486700.html

quote:
Mourning the fact we will probably never be able to have a biological child.
http://hailmaryfullofgrace-mt.blogspot.com/2011/03/mourning-fact-we-will-probably-never-be.html

quote:
The fact is, these Marines have probably prevented another war with the mission they've accomplished.”
http://thinkexist.com/quotation/the-fact-is-these-marines-have-probably-prevented/1386147.html

quote:
You might as well, since you made an a priori assumption about the Fulani youth and passed it off as "common knowledge", as if to say that you can predict mannerism in Fulani. To predict this mannerism without a tangible premise, is to essentially say--by your logic--that the Fulani culture and mannerism are "common knowledge" such that you can just pick on them and say any a priori statement about their ways, and not be held accountable. You miscalculated.


My conclusion that a segemnt of Fulani youth is into Hip Hop has been validated. How have I miscalculated?

At this point, I'm not going to try to convince you anymore. Good night sir!

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Explorador
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quote:
Originally posted by Apocalypse:

You're not getting any traction with this. The usage that I employed is not unusual. The emphasis is given to the word proably.

You may give emphasis to your use of "probably" to save face, but I'm giving emphasis to your use of "fact". Since you did in fact use the word "fact", I have all the traction there is to have.

Citing other people using faulty grammar doesn't absolve you from your own. It is like a thief pointing to somebody else stealing, as a means to excuse that of his/her own.

quote:


My conclusion that a segemnt of Fulani youth is into Hip Hop has been validated. How have I miscalculated?

Perhaps your ever revised claims have been validated in your dreams. You miscalculated when you made a priori assumption about Fulani, because you thought it would have gone said unscrutinized.

quote:
At this point, I'm not going to try to convince you anymore. Good night sir!
LOL, you mean this is what you've been trying to do all along? Your face saving antics after exposure can never convince me that your claim was anything else but an emotionally-driven reaction with an a priori premise. The cat is out of the bag.
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IronLion
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^@ Ass-Explorer, Mother fucker, what are you jabbering? You finished licking your mother's pussy?

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Primary language: Fulfulde (90% speakers)
Second language: Hausa
Third language: Tamajaq

Identity/Location
People Name: Fulani
Primary Language: Fulfulde
Ethnologue Code: FUE
Dialects: Kano-Katsina-Bororro (Cameroon, Niger, Nigeria), Bagirmi, Sokoto The Fulani people of West Africa are the largest nomadic group in the world.

Total People: 15 million Fulani with 100,000 Wodaabe

Urban Percent: 10% Fulani

Countries: Niger 1 million; Mali 1 million; Cameroon 700,000; Burkina Faso 500,000; Benin 230,000; Sudan 100,000; Togo 50,000; Central African Republic 25,000; Ghana 5,000; Nigeria 11 million. (Wodaabe: more than 40,000 in Niger and about 25,000 in Chad).


http://www.africanholocaust.net/peopleofafrica.htm#f


http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&v=PqZnQ22DczE


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfgkzkrO59w


Literature and narratives, such as a European traveler's account of Senegambia, an area of West Africa from which many slaves were taken, give another perspective and insite to slavery in the 18th and early 19th century

http://www2.vcdh.virginia.edu/gos/documents.html


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsutkwKT0Lo

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Apocalypse
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Explorer wrote:
quote:
You may give emphasis to your use of "probably" to save face, but I'm giving emphasis to your use of "fact". Since you did in fact use the word "fact", I have all the traction there is to have.


Unfortunately that option, deciding arbitrarily the meaning of the sentence, isn't available to you. You have to go with common usage.

I have absolutely no reason to try to save face.
When I'm wrong I have no problems admitting it (no consequences - it's the internet)
I've admitted to you in the past when I was wrong. I've admitted to Osirion in the past when he was right and I was wrong. You're 100% wrong in this case and suspect you know it. At least I hope for your sake that you know it.


Explorer wrote:
quote:
Citing other people using faulty grammar doesn't absolve you from your own. It is like a thief pointing to somebody else stealing, as a means to excuse that of his/her own.
Please point out to me the grammatical fault?


Explorer wrote:
quote:
Perhaps your ever revised claims have been validated in your dreams. You miscalculated when you made a priori assumption about Fulani, because you thought it would have gone said unscrutinized.
No. You thought that your bluster would be sufficient to prevail against a fairly reasonable and uncontroversial conclusion.
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Explorador
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quote:
Originally posted by Apocalypse:

Unfortunately that option, deciding arbitrarily the meaning of the sentence, isn't available to you. You have to go with common usage.

I do have the option of going with grammatically correct sentence, or go with lowbrow lingo. The choice is obvious: I'll go with the correct.

quote:


I have absolutely no reason to try to save face.

If you didn't, you wouldn't try to excuse your bad behavior by pointing to other bad behavior.

quote:

When I'm wrong I have no problems admitting it (no consequences - it's the internet)
I've admitted to you in the past when I was wrong. I've admitted to Osirion in the past when he was right and I was wrong.

Don't recall you ever admitting to wrongdoing, not that it matters, since you are doing it now.

quote:

You're 100% wrong in this case and suspect you know it. At least I hope for your sake that you know it.

You have all the signs people in the wrong do: they suddenly turn into Miss Cleo-wannabes. If it makes you feel easy to imagine that you know what is going on in my head, then I say go right ahead.

quote:

Please point out to me the grammatical fault?

Using contradictory idea. In this case, that would be passing an uncertain a priori assumption off as a fact. It seems like all the multiple times I've pointed this out to you, it went through one ear and came out the other -- you'll just never get it, because you are too emotionally invested in defending an indefensible claim.

quote:


No. You thought that your bluster would be sufficient to prevail against a fairly reasonable and uncontroversial conclusion.

Add the above to the tally of things that you have now gotten wrong. I have prevailed...against a fairly unreasonable conclusion.

Thought you were done trying to convince me to accept your error? Guess you were waiting for me to forget this thread and then try to salvage your ego again. Let me save you the trouble: It is a dead-ender.

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Apocalypse
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^Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall
All the king's horses and all the king's men
Could not put old humpty together again.

I'm sure you're feeling weightless from the free fall in logic that you're going through right now. I'll address your points above momentarily.

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Explorador
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LOL, this is what defeat does; it turns people into comedian wannabes.

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The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat

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Apocalypse
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He who Lols last Lols best.
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Explorador
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^See what I mean. LOL.

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Apocalypse
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Explorer wrote:
quote:
I do have the option of going with grammatically correct sentence, or go with lowbrow lingo. The choice is obvious: I'll go with the correct.
You mean low brow and contradictory like this:

Explorer wrote:

quote:
And yes, there is no single pattern of "sub-Saharan" Africans,
http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=004297;p=1

Per your foregoing desperate attempts at distortion this sentence can be taken to mean: "There is a single pattern of Sub-Saharan." Because I can "emphasize" the word "yes" in your sentence if I wanted to and ignore the common meaning of such a sentence structure.

The word hipocrisy immediately comes to mind.

But wait. There's more whooping to come for you.

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Explorador
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You are pathetically desperate, that you have to resort to a comparison which is like comparing apples and oranges. That is what's lowbrow. LOL
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Swenet
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quote:
Originally posted by The Explorer:
You are pathetically desperate, that you have to resort to a comparison which is like comparing apples and oranges. That is what's lowbrow. LOL

LOLOLOLOL!!!

Ladies and gentlemen, I think the Explorer just waved a white flag.

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Explorador
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That thinking shows just how much unsuited for thinking you are. LOL

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The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat

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Apocalypse
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Explorer wrote:
quote:
I do have the option of going with grammatically correct sentence, or go with lowbrow lingo. The choice is obvious: I'll go with the correct.

Again, I repeated to you ad nauseum that YOU don't have the choice to make sentences mean what YOU want them to mean. Such imperiousness borders on delusion and ought to exist only in fairy tales. Recall Alice's encounter with Humpty Dumpty in Lewis Carroll's Through the Looking Glass
quote:
When I use a word, Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, it means just what I choose it to mean neither more nor less.

The question is, said Alice, whether you can make words mean so many different things.

The question is, said Humpty Dumpty, which is to be master thats all.

Thus my reference to Humpty Dumpty above.

But your arrogance has led to a series of contradictions such as:
quote:
I do have the option of going with grammatically correct sentence
The same sentence cannot be simultaneously grammatically correct and grammatically incorrect. It's either one or the other not both. So you arrogate to yourself the choice of deciding the meaning of the sentence and also whether its grammatically right or wrong. And depending on your whim it can be both. Logical free fall.
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Explorador
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Apoco, you are right, I don't have a choice to make sentences mean other than what they are, like turning your incorrect statement into a logical one.

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The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat

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Apocalypse
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Lol!
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Apocalypse
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This whole argument has been lopsided. You're not debating you're merely contradicting whatever I say. You've not put forward one substantive argument during this discussion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teMlv3ripSM

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Explorador
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That is delusional talk; it is the result of post traumatic stress syndrome from defeat.

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JujuMan
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quote:
Originally posted by Apocalypse:
This whole argument has been lopsided. You're not debating you're merely contradicting whatever I say. You've not put forward one substantive argument during this discussion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teMlv3ripSM

Indeed [Wink]
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Apocalypse
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Explorer Wrote:
quote:
That is delusional talk; it is the result of post traumatic stress syndrome from defeat.

I had no quarrel with you Explorer. My quarrel was with a troll named Watu. You decided to interpose and play "god of logic" and received a sound whooping from me for your efforts. Monty Python's "Black Knight" best illustrates your hollow declaration of victory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKhEw7nD9C4

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Explorador
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You can spin it how many ways you want to and proclaim "victory", but FACT is, that you were caught with your pants down doing exactly what you were protesting to watu about. Nuff said.
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-Just Call Me Jari-
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quote:
Originally posted by Apocalypse:
Explorer Wrote:
quote:
That is delusional talk; it is the result of post traumatic stress syndrome from defeat.

I had no quarrel with you Explorer. My quarrel was with a troll named Watu. You decided to interpose and play "god of logic" and received a sound whooping from me for your efforts. Monty Python's "Black Knight" best illustrates your hollow declaration of victory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKhEw7nD9C4

LOL, "Its just a Flesh Wound"...
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Apocalypse
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The Explorer wrote:
quote:
You can spin it how many ways you want to and proclaim "victory", but FACT is, that you were caught with your pants down doing exactly what you were protesting to watu about. Nuff said.
Don't worry. I'm not done yet. Unfortunately, I'm working on a presentation, for work, to be given on Tuesday so I'll have to continue whooping you Tuesday evening. There will be knashing of teeth.

Kalonji, Jari, Mugisha thanks for the support. But be clear I'm not demonizing Explorer. He's just wrong on this and has refused every out I've offered him.

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Explorador
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Apoco, I eagerly await you to embarrass yourself on that Tuesday evening, because that is what it'll amount to: unwarranted self-punishment and humiliation. I just have to add a little salt to the injury, and then let and watch you self-disintegrate...again. LOL
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Apocalypse
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Watu wrote:
quote:
For those who may not know, Black Americans are like Mexicans - Fulanis are like the Spaniards.

A Black American finds it to be a complement to be associated with a Fulani, while a Fulani person would find it insulting to be associated with a Black American.

Apocalypse responded:
quote:
The fact is probably many young Fulanis (for better or worse) are emulating Jay Z, or Kayne West, or some other variation of black american mass cultural icon.
Explorer “called me out”:
quote:
I have no way of knowing a priori, if there is some Fulani somewhere in the globe embracing hip hop, since I'm not omnipresent.
quote:
Your statement is about as controversial as watu's claim that African Americans exaggerate Fulani ancestry in them. It is based on a priori opinion
quote:
Your logic towards implicating "Fulani youth" as necessarily and automatically Jay Z emulators is based on your a priori calculation
quote:
Your statement was based on emotional reaction to watu's claim. It was an a priori assumption.
quote:
An inference based on nothing but an a priori assumption.
quote:
It was a poorly thought-out claim wrought with contradiction, i.e. trying to pass an a priori assumption off as a fact
quote:
You might as well, since you made an a priori assumption about the Fulani youth and passed it off as "common knowledge", as if to say that you can predict mannerism in Fulani. To predict this mannerism without a tangible premise, is to essentially say--by your logic--that the Fulani culture and mannerism are "common knowledge" such that you can just pick on them and say any a priori statement about their ways, and not be held accountable. You miscalculated
quote:
You can go on broken record mode with that tired old jive above, but the fact remains that you paradoxically passed off an a priori assumption as a fact!
quote:
Your face saving antics after exposure can never convince me that your claim was anything else but an emotionally-driven reaction with an a priori premise.
quote:
Using contradictory idea. In this case, that would be passing an uncertain a priori assumption off as a fact.

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Apocalypse
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^^My question to you Explorer is this: Do you know what "a priori" means?
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Explorador
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^Yes, and your comment fits the bill!

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Apocalypse
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If you know what "a priori" means then how would you explain using the term incorrectly and inappropriately in every single instance cited above?
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Calabooz '
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quote:
The fact is probably many young Fulanis (for better or worse) are emulating Jay Z, or Kayne West, or some other variation of black american mass cultural icon.
I think that young Fulanis in America may imitate black cultural icons- it isn't unreasonable. Young Haitians imitate black American cultural icons.
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Apocalypse
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L' wrote:
quote:
I think that young Fulanis in America may imitate black cultural icons- it isn't unreasonable. Young Haitians imitate black American cultural icons.
Thank you L'. Indeed it would not be surprising to find this embrace/influence/imitation of Hip Hop in any corner of the world. Such is the reach of Western mass media: even Inuit and Australian Aboriginal Hip Hop exists!!!

To infer that a particular group may have members that embrace Hip Hop is based upon our experience of other groups doing the same.

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Explorador
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quote:
Originally posted by Apocalypse:

If you know what "a priori" means then how would you explain using the term incorrectly and inappropriately in every single instance cited above?

It is not surprising that you are also unable to understand other sentences put in straightforward English, as you've already shown your incredible incompetency in the language multiple times. Let me educate you on the context in which 'a priori' is being used:

a : being without examination or analysis : **presumptive**

b : formed or conceived beforehand
- Merriam-Webster

My constant use of "assumption" in tandem, which you very conveniently ignored, should have clued you in. That should now tell you what your remark about young Fulanis amount to, when I say it is nothing but an emotionally-driven a priori response to watu. This is and will be my position, regardless of how many times you come back to excuse yourself and how many cheerleaders come to give you emotional support. I'm beginning to think that you never completed high school English lessons. I suggest you get yourself a dictionary at the very least, if you cannot even do a simple google on words you don't understand.

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Swenet
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Just admit it

There is nothing grammatically wrong with his initial statement.

His use of ''fact'' refers to the probability, not to the occurance, of Hiphop among Fulani.

If you think saying:

Its a fact that there is a chance that some Fulani embrace Hiphop <--stating probability

Equals, or even resembles saying:

African Americans want to be (associated with) Fulani <-- stating something as fact

You've got to be on dope.

How does your allegation of him being assumptive figure into his initial statement?

Things really have to be dumbed down for you, don't they?

Maybe this will get through:

What you're creatively reading into said sentence:

as·sump·tive (-smptv)
adj.
1. Characterized by assumption.
2. Taken for granted; assumed.
3. Presumptuous; assuming.


What he did say:

prob·a·bil·i·ty (prb-bl-t)
n. pl. prob·a·bil·i·ties
1. The quality or condition of being probable; likelihood.
2. A probable situation, condition, or event: Her election is a clear probability.
3.
a. The likelihood that a given event will occur: little probability of rain tonight.
b. Statistics A number expressing the likelihood that a specific event will occur, expressed as the ratio of the number of actual occurrences to the number of possible occurrences.

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Apocalypse
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^Thanks Kalonji. You anticipated my next argument superbly. It's obvious that any clear thinker can see the contradictions in Explorer's screed that I quoted above. I'll expand a bit later today.
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Calabooz '
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quote:
Originally posted by Kalonji:
His use of ''fact'' refers to the probability, not to the occurance, of Hiphop among Fulani.

We were all thinking the same thing I guess.
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Apocalypse
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The Explorer wrote
quote:
It is not surprising that you are also unable to understand other sentences put in straightforward English, as you've already shown your incredible incompetency in the language multiple times. Let me educate you on the context in which 'a priori' is being used:

a : being without examination or analysis : **presumptive**

b : formed or conceived beforehand - Merriam-Webster

My constant use of "assumption" in tandem, which you very conveniently ignored, should have clued you in. That should now tell you what your remark about young Fulanis amount to, when I say it is nothing but an emotionally-driven a priori response to watu. This is and will be my position, regardless of how many times you come back to excuse yourself and how many cheerleaders come to give you emotional support. I'm beginning to think that you never completed high school English lessons. I suggest you get yourself a dictionary at the very least, if you cannot even do a simple google on words you don't understand.

Oh, so you do know what a priori means. That puts things in a different light all together. I'd been hoping, for your sake, that you didn’t understand that single word: “a priori”. Had this been actually the case the rest of your screed could have been seen in a more favorable light. I’m afraid that now I have to pronounce the entirety of your series of responses an abortion!

Take for example the reading of “a priori” as meaning “beforehand.” Well it’s more than a tad silly to go through all the trouble of invoking such a fine Latin word for such a basic idea. The word “probably” may be too “low brow” for you. However, if you understood what it meant then you’d know that it conveys uncertainty and is also predictive. Therefore to characterize the statement: “probably many Fulanis” as being a "beforehand assumption" is a tautology. It is already built into the meaning of probably! You're so high-browed however that one cannot reasonably hold you accountable for this little lapse in common sense.


Next let’s deal with “a priori” as meaning without examination or analysis: presumptive. This stands in vivid contrast to another word you used to describe my claim: inference.
Specifically you wrote:
quote:
an inference based on nothing but a priori assumption
Let’s first define inference: Per thefreedictionary
quote:
The act or process of deriving logical conclusions from premises known or assumed to be true
Let’s substitute your words with their equivalents: “The act or process of deriving logical conclusions from premises known or assumed to be true based upon nothing but lack of examination or analysis” Not too chock full of any real meaning is it Explorer? But again, that lofty brow of yours surveys more ethereal realms!

Now let’s examine this. Explorer wrote:
quote:
Your logic towards implicating "Fulani youth" as necessarily and automatically Jay Z emulators is based on your a priori calculation
Calculation per Merriam-Webster’s: studied care in analyzing or planning.

Let’s go the sentence substitution exercise.
Explorer’s statement boils down to this: “your logic is … based upon studied care in analyzing or planning without analysis or examination”
I'm scratching my head at this one. However, I'm sure such a careless formulation is no doubt attributable to your greater erudition and your preoccupation with more abstract undertakings.

Explorer, Your Loftiness, whenever I read your posts the word fatuous always comes to mind. I don't know why!

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Apocalypse
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The Explorer wrote:
quote:
It is not surprising that you are also unable to understand other sentences put in straightforward English, as you've already shown your incredible incompetency in the language multiple times.
I don't want to seem defensive or argumentative but I think you meant to say: "You've already shown your incredible incompetence in the language multiple times."
Just putting it out there.

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Explorer wrote:
quote:
My constant use of "assumption" in tandem, which you very conveniently ignored, should have clued you in. That should now tell you what your remark about young Fulanis amount to, when I say it is nothing but an emotionally-driven a priori response to watu
Throwing this one out to the forum. Can someone please help with this? I honestly have absolutely no clue what Explorer is saying here. I get the feeling he's bad-mouthing me though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BY3SCqPvEw

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anguishofbeing
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hehehehe

"high brow" jewboy taking some hits on this one.

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Apoco, your housewife nagging is futile:

Your remark about young Fulanis amounts to nothing but an emotionally-driven a priori response to watu. This is and will be my position, regardless of how many times you come back to excuse yourself and how many cheerleaders come to give you emotional support.

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quote:
Originally posted by Apocalypse:
Explorer wrote:
quote:
My constant use of "assumption" in tandem, which you very conveniently ignored, should have clued you in. That should now tell you what your remark about young Fulanis amount to, when I say it is nothing but an emotionally-driven a priori response to watu
Throwing this one out to the forum. Can someone please help with this? I honestly have absolutely no clue what Explorer is saying here. I get the feeling he's bad-mouthing me though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BY3SCqPvEw

LOL
The jiving black knight...

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Explorador
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kalonjigaboo, I'll be glad to get you heavy duty tampons on my way to the store.

--------------------
The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat

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Swenet
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^Jiving black knight

What happened to:

quote:
Originally posted by Jiving black knight:
Apoco, I eagerly await you to embarrass yourself on that Tuesday evening, because that is what it'll amount to: unwarranted self-punishment and humiliation. I just have to add a little salt to the injury, and then let and watch you self-disintegrate...again. LOL

Are you going to make it happen or what..?

Oh yeah, I forgot, you copped out black knight style, after getting the boot, here:

quote:
Originally posted by Jiving black knight:
This is and will be my position, regardless of how many times you come back


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sweet dreams are made of THIS! [Big Grin]

...ah if only it were true...

Posts: 1819 | From: odesco baba | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
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