quote:Originally posted by Sundjata: ^More eye-ball anthropology from the uneducated wheel chair scholars.
Yes im a wheel chair scholar coz i proved you wrong about Queen Tiye being Negroid Nubian lol
Get over it already
^You must be no older than 17. You Euro nuts kill me with your illiteracy. None of you frauds can read a book with actual text or scientific studies blowing your Caucasoid fairy tale out the water so you rely on assessing human variation from photos of 3500 year old corpses. As if we couldn't match you photo for photo with Northeast African women with thick, long curly hair along with mummies with stereotyped "Negroid" features. But why bother when the scientific evidence already proves our point, leaving imbeciles like you in the dust?
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Crystal_Balls: That is Queen Tiye from Dynasty 18 and that bust is made of Yew wood [which has darked over such along time], silver, gold, lapis lazuli, faience, H(max) 32.7 cm., Gift of James Simon, 1920, Egyptian Museum, Berlin
How many times must we explain this to Euronuts such as yourself?! Firs off, the wood was PAINTED. Why else would the sclera of the eyes remain white while the pupils are truly black in color?! You can even see the brush strokes of the pain in the picture you posted, you dummy.
quote:Queen Tiye did not really have an "afro" and was not really a Negroid. she was a Caucasoid woman with wavy Caucasoid hair.
pics of her mummified remains.
Yes more inaccurate eye-ball anthropology based on a millennia old hot-dried corpse.
Here is what experts who analyzed the mummy said:
"The occipital bun is reminiscent of Mesolithic Nubians (see below). Sagittal plateau, rounded forehead with moderately projecting glabella; globular cranium with high vault. Protrusion of incisors, receding chin and steep mandible. Very vertical zygomatic arches and pronounced maxillary prognathism."-- X-ray Atlas of the Royal Mummies (Chicago: University of Chicago, 1980)
Mummification also affects hair texture as well as color.
posted
^ Of course she does... in YOUR DREAMS, my microcephalic child.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Mummification dose not affect natural hair texture! Those people are Caucasoid get over it already face the facts instead of lies.
How come this mans hair texture dint change to Caucasoid? lol lies that Afrocentrics come up with.
or this ?
Queen Nefertari..now dont get too exited because she was not Negroid her hair is a wig which was woven in to her real hair.
Her hair had been thinning and plaits of false hair had been woven in with her own to cover this up. Her body had been damaged in antiquity and was missing her right hand.
quote:Originally posted by Crystal_Balls: [qb] That is Queen Tiye from Dynasty 18 and that bust is made of Yew wood [which has darked over such along time], silver, gold, lapis lazuli, faience, H(max) 32.7 cm., Gift of James Simon, 1920, Egyptian Museum, Berlin
How many times must we explain this to Euronuts such as yourself?! Firs off, the wood was PAINTED. Why else would the sclera of the eyes remain white while the pupils are truly black in color?! You can even see the brush strokes of the pain in the picture you posted, you dummy.
quote:Queen Tiye did not really have an "afro" and was not really a Negroid. she was a Caucasoid woman with wavy Caucasoid hair.
pics of her mummified remains.
Yes more inaccurate eye-ball anthropology based on a millennia old hot-dried corpse.
Here is what experts who analyzed the mummy said:
"The occipital bun is reminiscent of Mesolithic Nubians (see below). Sagittal plateau, rounded forehead with moderately projecting glabella; globular cranium with high vault. Protrusion of incisors, receding chin and steep mandible. Very vertical zygomatic arches and pronounced maxillary prognathism."-- X-ray Atlas of the Royal Mummies (Chicago: University of Chicago, 1980)
Mummification also affects hair texture as well as color.
quote:Originally posted by Crystal_Balls: You moroan! It was NOT painted.
Yes it was. How else do you explain the color of the eyes, stupid? LOL
quote:Mummification dose not affect natural hair texture! Those people are Caucasoid get over it already face the facts instead of lies.
Yes it does, moron.
Two British anthropologists, Brothwell and Spearman, have found evidence of cortex keratin oxidation in ancient Egyptian hair. They held that the mummification process was responsible, because of the strong alkaline substance used. This resulted in the yellowing and browning of hair as well as the straightening effect.
quote:How come this mans hair texture dint change to Caucasoid? lol lies that Afrocentrics come up with.
Because that is a WIG and not his natrual hair, you dummy! LOL The only one lying here is YOU!
quote:or this ?
Queen Nefertari..now dont get too exited because she was not Negroid her hair is a wig which was woven in to her real hair.
Her hair had been thinning and plaits of false hair had been woven in with her own to cover this up. Her body had been damaged in antiquity and was missing her right hand.
You just answered your own question-- They were WINGS and WEAVES put in after mummification! LMAO And notice the style of wigs and weaves is of the braided AFRICAN type! LOL
Now Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
^ Of course, but as you can see there are very few portraits of Tiye with paint remaining. Most of the painted portraits only show her feet and legs since the face was damaged. There are many statues of her face but they are all unpainted. The wooden bust is the only surviving painted face.
^ As anyone with eyes can clearly see, the bust is painted. One can even see tiny areas in the face where the paint has peeled off. The entire bust is made of yew wood which can darken indeed but it doesn't explain why the whites of the eyes are as well preserved as the literally black pupils and while the round (afro) wig obviously has lost some paint, the paint that is found is also literally black while the color of the face is of a dark chocolate complexion.
As far as the hair being wavy and thin, again that is because of embalming.
Two British anthropologists, Brothwell and Spearman, have found evidence of cortex keratin oxidation in ancient Egyptian hair. They held that the mummification process was responsible, because of the strong alkaline substance used. This resulted in the yellowing and browning of hair as well as the straightening effect.
This is why you can't tell what a person's hair looked when alive by the way it looks when mummified. Despite the damage to the hair cortex, scientists can still tell how the hair looked in life by studying the hair cortical with a microscope.
In the early 1970s, the Czech anthropologist Eugen Strouhal examined pre-dynastic Egyptian skulls at Cambridge University. He sent some samples of the hair to the Institute of Anthropology at Charles University, Prague, to be analyzed. The hair samples were described as varying in texture from "wavy" to "curly" and in colour from "light brown" to "black". Strouhal summarized the results of the analysis:
"The outline of the cross-sections of the hairs was flattened, with indices ranging from 35 to 65. These peculiarities also show the Negroid inference among the Badarians (pre-dynastic Egyptians)."
The term "Negroid influence" suggests intermixture, but as the table suggests this hair is more "Negroid" than the San and the Zulu samples, currently the most Negroid hair in existence!
In another study, hair samples from ten 18th-25th dynasty individuals produced an average index of 51! As far back as 1877, Dr. Pruner-Bey analyzed six ancient Egyptian hair samples. Their average index of 64.4 was similar to the Tasmanians who lie at the periphery of the African-haired populations(1).
A team of Italian anthropologists published their research in the Journal of Human Evolution in 1972 and 1980. They measured two samples consisting of 26 individuals from pre-dynastic, 12th dynasty and 18th dynasty mummies. They produced a mean index of 66.50...
San, Southern African 55.00 Zulu, Southern African 55.00 Sub-Saharan Africa 60.00 Tasmanian (Black) 64.70 Australian (Black) 68.00 Western European 71.20 Asian Indian 73.00 Navajo American 77.00 Chinese 82.60
Anu M'bantu and Fari Supia (2001) Courtesy of Myra.
And then we have Tiye's mummy itself.
"The occipital bun is reminiscent of Mesolithic Nubians (see below). Sagittal plateau, rounded forehead with moderately projecting glabella; globular cranium with high vault. Protrusion of incisors, receding chin and steep mandible. Very vertical zygomatic arches and pronounced maxillary prognathism."-- X-ray Atlas of the Royal Mummies (Chicago: University of Chicago, 1980)
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
^^^^^ Indeed the new found bleats of the Phonecian7 Cheerleading University about Tiye's bust being darkened "Yew" wood makes no sense as the Eye pupils are still white, meaning the bust was painted no different than the skin of her Husband.
To add further insult to injury the Phonecian7 Cheerleaders will have to answer to this..
^^^^^ Let me Guess, Queen Tyes lips and fisage was originally a Eurasian but it became a "Negro" with Age??
Oh I know the Cheerleaders will claim this one is "Symbolic"...LMAO.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
LOL, putting an end to the Euroclown Yew Wood fantacy....
The Clowns don't even realize that the Yellow Sap wood is not the only color of Yew Wood, it also has Reddish Brown(HMMMM) Heart Wood...
LOL...Epic Fail....
More on Yew Wood...
Yew wood has Sapwood as well as Heartwood...
the colorful wood (red heartwood, white sapwood) was used to veneer furniture, to make lute bodies, bowls, tankards, combs, tool handles, pegs, and various art objects. It was used in many ways by various religions, and certain yew objects such as drinking-cups are still regarded as having a certain spiritual potency.
So typical of the Euroclown to give half ass results, and jump to conclusions only to debunk themselves.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: LOL, putting an end to the Euroclown Yew Wood fantacy....
The Clowns don't even realize that the Yellow Sap wood is not the only color of Yew Wood, it also has Reddish Brown(HMMMM) Heart Wood...
LOL...Epic Fail....
More on Yew Wood...
Yew wood has Sapwood as well as Heartwood...
the colorful wood (red heartwood, white sapwood) was used to veneer furniture, to make lute bodies, bowls, tankards, combs, tool handles, pegs, and various art objects. It was used in many ways by various religions, and certain yew objects such as drinking-cups are still regarded as having a certain spiritual potency.
So typical of the Euroclown to give half ass results, and jump to conclusions only to debunk themselves.
The Berlin museum lists:
Portrait of Queen Tiy with a Crown of Two Feathers New Kingsom, Dynasty 18, ca. 1355 BC Yew wood, silver, gold and faience inlays Medinet el Gurob Total height 8.9 inches Inv.-No. ÄM 21834, ÄM 17852
______________________________________
The sculpture is not painted. It is made with the dark part of the yew wood and the eyes are inlaid with faience. Faience is a glazed non-clay ceramic material. It is composed mainly of crushed quartz or sand, with small amounts of lime and either natron or plant ash.
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
Huy receiving the envoys from kingdoms in Kush.
_________________________________________________________ look at these figures below ______________________________________________________________________________what's this? ^^^^^^ __________________________________________________________________________some admixing part of the tribute?
how come in Egyptian art you don't see groups of Egyptians who are jet black like those top figures? If they came from the South how come you don't see that, they reserve it for certain Kushites who are already distinguished by different clothing/hairstyle/hoop earrings.
Perfect example of what I've been talking about. Egyptians are much more commonly represented in reddish brown, sometimes chocolate brown but not groups of figures jet black. (except individual Gods symbolically black) Apparently Nubia is the land of the black skinned while Egypt is the land of the black soil. Real talk.
So how could Egyptians be a reddish brick brown color yet weren't we afrocentrically taught that white people are "reds" ?
The Libyans weren't reddish. They are shown as beige in the Egyptian art. They are from the West, the Deshret, where some of the soil is reddish sometimes.
posted
Fer chrissakes will you Y'all stop mucking about with these guys and at least one gal about what the Kemitians looked like??they know what they looked like they can see the paintings and sculptures just like anyone else..for at the very best from their stand point the Kemitians would fill all colorization and phenotype befitting an AA or any new world blks at the very worst they would look their closest neighbors in Africa broad and narrow featured types with hair to match or mismatch ..all without being foreign to the continent..let them prove they are non Africans culturally . The physical thing was won yrs ago. All the above the various distractors would hate..and all were represented shade wise in ol Kemet.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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posted
The Lioness is right I don't think that the bust was painted. If you look at Her forehead and her outer cheek the texture is rough the Egyptian Artist Sanded those parts to gave her a Darker look but left the Area around her Nose and inner Cheeks alone to give her a Reddish Blush.
Obviously the person who made the Bust was a Master at his craft.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: The sculpture is not painted. It is made with the dark part of the yew wood and the eyes are inlaid with faience. Faience is a glazed non-clay ceramic material. It is composed mainly of crushed quartz or sand, with small amounts of lime and either natron or plant ash.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
^ If that's the case, then I stand corrected.
quote:Originally posted by the lyinass: I'm just pointing out Djehuti's lying in saying the Tiye head was painted.
Actually, NO. Lying is intentionally stating something false while knowing the truth otherwise. I didn't know, so I wasn't lying which is your M.O. not mine! Also unlike you, I admit to where I am mistaken. Which leaves you the desperate erroneous liar that you are.
Speaking of which...
quote:Originally posted by the lyinass:
quote:Originally posted by L': So, why was the bust made with the dark part of Yew wood?
As Kalonji pointed out, other representations show Tiye with the same color
I don't know.
Bad try, dumb liar, but an old bronze statue of a Roman is not the same as a more realistic portrait of an Egyptian!
Getting back to Jari, you're right the craftsman must have been very gifted since the details do look as if it is a paint job. Either way, it would make no sense for artists to use wood that they know would darken if the portrait was mean to last eternity the way all portraits of royals were. You are correct that they used the dark heartwood part to make her portrait, which still defeats the Euronuts claims.
It's funny because not only the skin color but the features of the bust match those of this Beja woman.
The Beja of course are a northeastern African people who live between the eastern banks of the Nile and the Red Sea from Egypt to Eritrea and linguistically as well as culturally are the closest relatives to the Egyptians.
Can any "caucasian" woman come this close to looking like Tiye?
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Hi-res image of Tiye Ghurob bust now in Berlin to examine for fine details.
Dorothea Arnold The Royal Women of Amarna New York: The Metropolitan Museum of Art, 1996
JPEG image courtesy of Mark S. Moak Professor of Art, Rocky Mountain College
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness: Huy receiving the envoys from kingdoms in Kush.
_________________________________________________________ look at these figures below [IMG]http://www.abload.de/img/new998h.jpg[/MG] ______________________________________________________________________________what's this? ^^^^^^ __________________________________________________________________________some admixing part of the tribute?
how come in Egyptian art you don't see groups of Egyptians who are jet black like those top figures? If they came from the South how come you don't see that, they reserve it for certain Kushites who are already distinguished by different clothing/hairstyle/hoop earrings.
Perfect example of what I've been talking about. Egyptians are much more commonly represented in reddish brown, sometimes chocolate brown but not groups of figures jet black. (except individual Gods symbolically black) Apparently Nubia is the land of the black skinned while Egypt is the land of the black soil. Real talk.
So how could Egyptians be a reddish brick brown color yet weren't we afrocentrically taught that white people are "reds" ?
The Libyans weren't reddish. They are shown as beige in the Egyptian art. They are from the West, the Deshret, where some of the soil is reddish sometimes.
peace,
lioness productions
If you look carefully at the group at the top-right of the picture, two of them are painted black while the two others have the same shade of color as the egyptians.
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Great pic resolution of an millenia old artifact, feels like she's staring right at me so strikingly real, powerful, strong and might I add beautiful.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Hi-res image of Tiye Ghurob bust now in Berlin to examine for fine details.
Dorothea Arnold The Royal Women of Amarna New York: The Metropolitan Museum of Art, 1996
JPEG image courtesy of Mark S. Moak Professor of Art, Rocky Mountain College
notice the significant color difference between the two photos, why is that? Looks more yellowish less afrocentric version larger version.
hard to tell what's going on with the overall skin tine.
Again the materials listed:
Portrait of Queen Tiy with a Crown of Two Feathers New Kingsom, Dynasty 18, ca. 1355 BC Yew wood, silver, gold and faience inlays Medinet el Gurob Total height 8.9 inches Inv.-No. ÄM 21834, ÄM 17852
It looks like some gold may have been worked into the skin tone or maybe it's just the Yew wood which does have two colors in it. hard to tell
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
^ Lighting may have one thing to do with it. Lighting especially from flash photography on an image that is already lighted may cause such an effect.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
True, no simple photoflash lighting for that image but as you imply there were plenty external lights.
There are no shadows. Strong light was focused on the bust from every direction so as to yield the highest of quality photograph to reveal the minutest of details.
If the lips are painted, as per Fred S. Kleiner (2010:60) posted below, then from Arnold's photo we can see that so were the face and neck. This "bust" is only 3¾ inches high and was reworked in antiquity. It may have been part of a cult statuette.
The outerside of the left nostril is nicked and the natural color of the wood is seen neither to be the brown nor the yellow. In fact, one can see the yellow rimming the nick.
The eyes are inlaid. The part of the eyelids where the eyelashes grow and the eyebrows are in black.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
Exactly what I thought the high resolution photo's lighting is off, its shadows seem off too, Ive never seen it like that before. Obviously the Tiye bust was made from the Heart Wood of the Yew Wood.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ Lighting may have one thing to do with it. Lighting especially from flash photography on an image that is already lighted may cause such an effect.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
^ Of course. I've mentioned this in past threads on Egyptian art about how some Eurocentrics would purposefully find certain photos of portraits where the lighting skews the true color or complexion and make them seem lighter.
Though such distorted lighting can help at times to uncover certain things about the artwork.
Take for example the photo of Nefertiti above. The lighting actually exposes traces of darker paint which itself is faded around the cheek and especially the neck area. I have seen an older photo of Nefertiti from the 80s where the lighting was done so that the resolution was terrible, yet you could very much see the traces of reddish coloring around the face was originally much darker.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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