Note the features in some of these pics strongly resemble some of those from the Olmec sculptures and only points out the fact that such features existed in Asia and traveled to the Americas among the aboriginal populations.
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Good grief - it is not that difficult folks.
Olmecs were simply Negroid indigenous people of the New World. NOT Africans but rather people with tropical adaptation similar to West Africans. They of course changed over time for various reasons.
Basically they were similar to Melanesians of some type. They could have possibly come directly from West Africa. As far as I can tell there is no evidence supporting one direction verses another more. Yes there may have been recent contacts with NW Africa but no significant evidence of cultural diffusion. What scant evidence there is, there's not enough to warrant the claim that indigenous peoples did not build those civilizations known as the Mesoamericans. Besides, West Africans would have simply arrived in the New World and met people that looked very similar to themselves and living somewhat in the same way (at least in reference to the Olmecs).
-------------------- Across the sea of time, there can only be one of you. Make you the best one you can be. Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by osirion: Good grief - it is not that difficult folks.
Olmecs were simply Negroid indigenous people of the New World. NOT Africans but rather people with tropical adaptation similar to West Africans. They of course changed over time for various reasons.
Basically they were similar to Melanesians of some type. They could have possibly come directly from West Africa. As far as I can tell there is no evidence supporting one direction verses another more. Yes there may have been recent contacts with NW Africa but no significant evidence of cultural diffusion. What scant evidence there is, there's not enough to warrant the claim that indigenous peoples did not build those civilizations known as the Mesoamericans. Besides, West Africans would have simply arrived in the New World and met people that looked very similar to themselves and living somewhat in the same way (at least in reference to the Olmecs).
Some people feel that a "Negroid" must be African in origin
Posts: 42937 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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But some also want to deny that very dark skinned people with broad features and even wholly hair could have been present in the Americas it took months of postings real live people in Asia for some to grudgingly acknowledged that they even exist. The Original Black American without the helmet..note I did not say African AmericanPosts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Doug M: Polynesian means mixed and most of that mixture came in the last 100 years.
Actually Polynesia means 'many islands' not mixed, but you're right that admixture only occurred within the last 100 years and mainly from Europeans. Though it would be a generalization to say most Polynesians are mixed like saying most African Americans are mixed when that is truly not the case. It depends on the island and region.
quote:Note the features in some of these pics strongly resemble some of those from the Olmec sculptures and only points out the fact that such features existed in Asia and traveled to the Americas among the aboriginal populations.
Are you saying the Olmecs or other ancient cultures in Meso-America are attributed to Polynesians?? If so this is a first I've heard of this, though I have heard theories of Polynesian presence in South America particularly Peru. In fact anthropological studies show some Peruvian skulls off the coast to possess Polynesian traits.
Posts: 26285 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: [QB] But some also want to deny that very dark skinned people with broad features and even wholly hair could have been present in the Americas it took months of postings real live people in Asia for some to grudgingly acknowledged that they even exist.
post an indigenous American who has wholly hair
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When historians asked the Maoris of New Zealand (settled in 800-1000AD) where they came from, they said Hawaiki as in Hawai'i (settled in 500AD) or Havai'i 300AD or Savai'i 2000-500BC. When historians asked the people of Hawai'i(settled in 500AD) where they came from, they said Havai'i (settled in 300AD) now called Raiatea in Tahiti or Savai'i, Samoa 2000-500BC (Legends of Pili and Pa'ao from Samoa, who were the forefathers of Kamehameha, according to published writings of Hawaii's King himself, King David Kalakaua in 1888).
When historians asked the people of Havai'i (settled in 300AD) where they came from, they said Savai'i (Birthed pure Polynesians in 2000-500BC). Savai'i, according to many Polynesians is the ancient land of lava flows, volcanoes, God Tagaloa which is pronounced Tanaloa or Kanaloa by Samoans {worshiped in Tahiti as Ta'aroa & Hawai'i as Kanaloa}, ancient Ali'is and the Kings of Samoa. ' Sa moa ' or ' Sacred Center/Heart ' of Polynesia, the birthplace of pure Polynesians in 2000-500BC. Savai'i, Samoa the ancient motherland, where it all began for all Polynesians.
It is important to realize why the Maori of New Zealand 800-1000AD, the Maoli of Hawai'i 500AD, the Maohi of Tahiti 300AD were able to remember where they came from originally other than their new island homes. The Eastern Polynesians were recent migrants unlike the long settled Mao'i of Samoa. The newly settled Eastern Polynesians voyaged with a recent recollection of where they came from, because they had only arrived to their new islands not long before the Europeans came into Polynesia and recorded their recollections. The Mao'i of Savai'i, Samoa had been settled since around 2000-500BC and because of multiple generations that remained in Samoa, they only knew their origins as being from Samoa. Samoans according to the latest genetic studies of 2002AD are pure blooded Polynesians and have been since 2000-500BC without any Melanesian or Micronesian genes. Unique Polynesian genetics is determined from the presence of the Polynesian motif, a specific genetic DNA sequence, present only in the Polynesian people.
References. (1) Pacific Journals. (2) GENETICS 2002 (3) PNAS 2000 (4) World Encyclopedias. (5) Polynesian Cultural Center in Laie, Hawaii. (6) Hawaiian King David Kalakaua 1888, Legends & Myths of Hawaii. (7) Hawaiian Legends of Ghosts and Ghost-Gods, by W.D. Westervelt. Boston, G.H. Ellis Press [1916]. (8) An Account of the Polynesian Race: Its Origins and Migrations, and the Ancient History of the Hawaiian People to the Times of Kamehameha I. Abraham Fornander. Mutual Publishing Company 1996. (9) Ruling Chiefs of Hawaii. Samuel Manaiakalani Kamakau & M.K. Pukui. Kamehameha School Press, 1995. (10) The Polynesians Prehistory of an Island People. Peter S. Bellwood. Thames and Hudson Ltd. London, 1978. (11) The Kumulipo A Hawaiian Creation Chant. Martha W. Beckwith. University Press of Hawaii. 1972. (12) Polynesian Interconnections. Peter Leiataua AhChing. Lulu Press Inc, 2003.(13) Vikings of the Sunrise. Peter H. Buck. Whitecombe and Tombs, 1954.
_______________________________________________
POLYNESIAN GENETICS:
The Hardy-Weinberg Principle of Genetics was not met by the Polynesian forebears as they migrated from the western lands of South East Asia to the eastern lands, hence a new race of people & a new culture developed in isolation around 2000-500BC in the Samoa & Tonga area ( Savai'i & Upolu ). The Hardy-Weinberg Equilibrium calls for the following to maintain stable population genetics :
(1) Large populations (2) Random mating (3) No genetic drifts (4) No mutations (5) No genetic migrations (6) Equal mating opportunity among members.
When these conditions are met, genetics in a population maintain stability, without the development of new species or breeds.
Hardy-Weinberg Equilibrium conditions were not met by the Polynesian forebears as they migrated in small population units into the realm of Polynesia, Samoa & Tonga in 2000-500BC ( Small Population, Genetic Migration & Genetic Drifting ). Hence, population genetics led to Speciation with the disappearence of inferior or unfavorable genes, and the retention of favorable or superior alleles necessary for survival. Therefore a new set of stronger genes were able to survive and flourish onto offspring. A new race or breed of Polynesians was created by the process of natural selection & genetic evolution (Speciation). Unfavorable genes were lost from the Polynesians as they migrated from one isolated settlement (islands) to another, the lost genes were also links to their ancient forebears. Genetic marker analysis on Polynesians to determine resemblance to their forebears will be futile as they will not resemble any other race due to lost genes or even mixed genes. Only the strong had survived and produced new offspring in Samoa & Tonga 2000-500BC from the original Polynesian forebears of 5000-10,000BC.
The original genes of the Polynesian forebears evolved into a more fit population manifestation as Polynesian children. These Polynesians found new lands, settled them as small population units ( Non-random mating, no equal chance of reproduction & small populations ), and flourished in the production of new offspring in Samoa & Tonga ( Natural Selection, Evolution, Genetic Drifts & Migration ). After a long period of settlement in one area in Upolu & Savai'i, Samoa-Tonga from 2000BC to 100AD, much genetic stabilization had occurred, then they as a new unique race or breed of people migrated to settle Marquesas 100AD, to Tahiti 300AD, to Hawaii 500AD & then finally in 800-1000AD to settle Aotearoa, New Zealand.
In the big picture, the Polynesians populated the Polynesian Triangle from Western Polynesia to Eastern Polynesia and then back west to Aotearoa, New Zealand 800-1000AD. Language similarities, physical morphologies, archaeology, anthropology & genetic studies on these Polynesian islands all point to Savai'i, Samoa in Western Polynesia as the original homeland of all Polynesians. Ask Polynesians where they came from and they will tell you, ' from the WEST.'
COPYRIGHT 2003. Peter Leiataua AhChing at JABSOM, UH & Hawaii Courts Officer.
Posts: 42937 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Doug M: Polynesian means mixed and most of that mixture came in the last 100 years.
Actually Polynesia means 'many islands' not mixed, but you're right that admixture only occurred within the last 100 years and mainly from Europeans. Though it would be a generalization to say most Polynesians are mixed like saying most African Americans are mixed when that is truly not the case. It depends on the island and region.
quote:Note the features in some of these pics strongly resemble some of those from the Olmec sculptures and only points out the fact that such features existed in Asia and traveled to the Americas among the aboriginal populations.
Are you saying the Olmecs or other ancient cultures in Meso-America are attributed to Polynesians?? If so this is a first I've heard of this, though I have heard theories of Polynesian presence in South America particularly Peru. In fact anthropological studies show some Peruvian skulls off the coast to possess Polynesian traits.
What I meant was that the features in the Pacific derive from a more ancient ancestral set of features found in Asia, including darker skin and prognathism, etc. It is those features that are referred to as being among the features found in the oldest remains from the Americas, which are more similar to Africans, Pacific Islanders and Australian Aborigines. The point being that this ancient population had features converging on African features, which makes sense as all of them ultimately originated in Africa. So I am not talking about specific Polynesian features here in a measured metric sense as opposed to a more general set of features found in Asia among the population ancestral to those in Polynesia which includes the Aborigines of South Asia, Australia, New Guinea, etc.
As for Polynesia, the term originally referred to all the Pacific islands but was revised to refer to certain islands whose populations were considered "caucasoid" and therefore mixed. This is distinct from places populated by blacks, which is why the term Melanesia was created as a reference to those people. But of course all of these places were originally populated by blacks.
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I was in elementary school that the "poly" in Polynesia referred to "many" races; that those far spanning islands had people originating in a mixture of what was at that time called the three major races; that depending on the island the people looked indistinguishably mixed, or looked predominately of one of the races though still displaying some features of the others.
This makes sense in regards to Melanesia (Black Islands) but doesn't hold so nicely for Micronesia (Tiny Islands).
The blacks of the Melanesians and Fiji don't so much resemble the blacks of Hawaii and the none of them resemble the aboriginal small statured blacks of the Phillipines.
All told, the blacks of the Pacific are extremely variable in their phenotypes.
If you can reference old (1930s to 1960s) social studies books of ethno-geography you can read of the above and see some no longer circulating pics of the peoples. I muchly miss a twelve volume set that covered the globe. I even lost my catalog so can't even name that superb series as I can for The Secret Museum of Mankind or Henry Neville Hutchinson's The Living Races of Mankind: a popular illustrated account of the customs, habits, pursuits, feasts & ceremonies of the races of mankind throughout the world.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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Lioness post an indigenous American who has wholly hair
courtesy of Mike
But fer real that's a tall order due to that fact of post Columbian African influence in the past 500yrs on native American communities one can never be sure where recent non African genetic influence ends.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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