posted
As is always the case with the ancient Black civilizations, Whites have spent their time producing falsehood and nonsense, in an attempt to make them appear to be White people, thus they have spent no time in trying to ascertain their true origin. So to this late date, there is still no clear understanding of where the Medes and Persians came from. So then, let us investigate.
By the mid-9th century B.C, two new groups of people appear in Elam, these are the Medes (Mada) and the Persians (Parsua). Of the two, the Medes were the more widespread, and from an Assyrian point of view, the more important group. The Medes were fierce warriors and skilled horse breeders. They were at first organized as independent tribes, however this changed under the tribal chief Deioces, he succeeded in uniting all of the Medes tribes into the kingdom of Media. The Persians (Parsua) continued their migration southward in an area of southwestern Elam that we now call Fars, and made that their home.
The Persians and Medes are first mentioned in the records of Assyrian king Shalmaneser III (859 – 824 B.C.). In these records, Parsuwash (along with Matai of Median) are first mentioned as inhabiting the area of Lake Urmia, which is a salt lake in northwestern Iran, near Iran's border with Turkey, (Lake Matianus is an old name for Lake Urmia. It was the center of the Mannaean Kingdom). The exact identity of the Parsuwash is yet to be determined, but from a linguistic viewpoint the word matches Old Persian pārsa.
Note: though the Persians and Medes would later form a unified people, they did not begin as such, they were originally separate kingdoms.
Approximately 250 years previous, the "Sea People" a conglomeration of Mediterranean warriors and their families seeking new homes, invaded Egypt. The "Sea People" included: The Peleset and Tjeker (Minoans) of Crete, they would later be known as the “Philistines” after they had settled in Southern Canaan. Over time, this area became known by a form of their name “Palestine”. The Lukka who may have come from the Lycian region of Anatolia, The Ekwesh and Denen who seem to be identified with the original (Black) Greeks, The Shardana (Sherden) who may be associated with Sardinia, The Teresh (Tursha or Tyrshenoi), the Tyrrhenians - the Greek name for the Etruscans, and The Shekelesh (Sicilians?).
After being turned away in defeat by Egyptian king Rameses III, the Sea Peoples invaded Anatolia. There they are reported to have destroyed the central Anatolian Hittite Empire and settled there.
There is just a few problems with that scenario:
There never really was such a thing as a Hittite Empire. The name "Hittite" comes from an entry in the King James Bible (1611 A.D.), and for some unknown reason, White people decided to give this name to what was undoubtedly a Hattic kingdom in Anatolia. Then there is the fact that we cannot identify what was the new kingdom that the Sea Peoples formed. There is no doubt that the Sea Peoples DID displace some native Anatolian people.
Who exactly they were, and where they went to is another unknown. There is the logical possibility that "Some" Sea People remained in Anatolia and settled there, and perhaps "Some" continued eastward. There is circumstantial evidence to support this scenario, and it all points to the Persians as being part of the Sea Peoples who continued on into Elam.
Quotes from the Histories of Herodotus, circa 440 B.C. will be used to support this scenario.
The Colchians:
According to the Greeks, Colchis was a fabulously wealthy land situated on the mysterious periphery of the heroic world. Here in the sacred grove of the war god Ares, King Aeëtes hung the Golden Fleece until it was seized by Jason and the Argonauts. Colchis was also the land where the mythological Prometheus was punished by being chained to a mountain while an eagle ate at his liver for revealing to humanity the secret of fire. Amazons also were said to be from Colchis. The main mythical characters from Colchis are Aeëtes, Medea, Absyrtus, Chalciope, Circe, Eidyia, Pasiphaë. (Medea was the daughter of King Aeëtes of Colchis, niece of Circe, granddaughter of the sun god Helios, and later wife to the hero Jason, with whom she had two children, Mermeros and Pheres).
Book 4 - MELPOMENE
[4.37] The Persians inhabit a country upon the southern or Erythraean sea (The Persian Gulf); above them, to the north, are the Medes; beyond the Medes, the Saspirians; beyond them, the Colchians, reaching to the northern sea (the Black Sea), into which the Phasis empties itself. These four nations fill the whole space from one sea to the other.
Book 2 - EUTERPE
[2.104] There can be no doubt that the Colchians are an Egyptian race. Before I heard any mention of the fact from others, I had remarked it myself. After the thought had struck me, I made inquiries on the subject both in Colchis and in Egypt, and I found that the Colchians had a more distinct recollection of the Egyptians, than the Egyptians had of them. Still the Egyptians said that they believed the Colchians to be descended from the army of Sesostris. My own conjectures were founded, first, on the fact that they are black-skinned and have woolly hair, which certainly amounts to but little, since several other nations are so too; but further and more especially, on the circumstance that the Colchians, the Egyptians, and the Ethiopians, are the only nations who have practiced circumcision from the earliest times.
[2.105] I will add a further proof to the identity of the Egyptians and the Colchians. These two nations weave their linen in exactly the same way, and this is a way entirely unknown to the rest of the world; they also in their whole mode of life and in their language resemble one another. The Colchian linen is called by the Greeks Sardinian, while that which comes from Egypt is known as Egyptian.
The Medes:
Book 7 - POLYMNIA
[7.62] The Medes had exactly the same equipment as the Persians; and indeed the dress common to both is not so much Persian as Median. They had for commander Tigranes, of the race of the Achaemenids. These Medes were called anciently by all people Aryans; but when Media, the Colchian, came to them from Athens, they changed their name. Such is the account which they themselves give.
Note: It appears that the Medes were once a Colchian people called Aryans, who then took the name of their new Colchian ruler Media.
PERSIAN INSCRIPTIONS MENTIONING ARYANS
Darius the Great's, Behistun Inscription
70. (4.88-92.) Darius the King says: By the favor of Ahuramazda this is the inscription which I made. Besides, it was in Aryan, and on clay tablets and on parchment it was composed. Besides, a sculptured figure of myself I made. Besides, I made my lineage. And it was inscribed and was read off before me. Afterwards this inscription I sent off everywhere among the provinces. The people unitedly worked upon it.
Inscriptions on south face of steep ridge north of Persepolis
2. (8-15.) I am Darius the Great King, King of Kings, King of countries containing all kinds of men, King in this great earth far and wide, son of Hystaspes, an Achaemenian, a Persian, son of a Persian, an Aryan, having Aryan lineage.
Note: Aryan and Arian is used interchangeably depending on translator. However it is preferable to reserve Aryan for the Persians and Arian for the White central Asian people.
The Persians:
The people of Argos (Greece) and the Persians share the same linage.
Book 7 - POLYMNIA
[7.150] Such is the account which is given of these matters by the Argives themselves. There is another story, which is told generally through Greece, of a different tenor. Xerxes, it is said, before he set forth on his expedition against Greece, sent a herald to Argos, who on his arrival spoke as follows: "Men of Argos, King Xerxes speaks thus to you. We Persians deem that the Perses from whom we descend was the child of Perseus the son of Danae, and of Andromeda the daughter of Cepheus. Hereby it would seem that we come of your stock and lineage. So then it neither befits us to make war upon those from whom we spring; nor can it be right for you to fight, on behalf of others, against us. Your place is to keep quiet and hold yourself aloof. Only let matters proceed as I wish, and there is no people whom I shall have in higher esteem than you."
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posted
The original Proto- Saharan tribes of Central Asia were known as the Kushana, Yuehshih, Mandaga (Manda > Mande), and Kasu. The four kingdoms of Saka were the Maga (Manga), Masaka, Mansa and Mandaga (Manda). The term Saka, now used to describe a late Indo-European group that conquered Central Asia formerly was used to refer to the Kushites/Proto-Saharans of ancient Central Asia. The name Maga, reminds us of the Magians or Maka, of the Persian inscriptions who lived in Media.
The ancient Sumerian name for Medea ,was Mada. One of the six tribes of Mada,was the "Mages" or "Magu" in Persian. The name Mage signified "the great,the High". Herodotus, claimed the the Medes came from Athens. This would support a Mande origin.
Mede
.
Many cities of eastern Greece were early settled by the Manding speakers who presently live in West Africa. Moreover, in the Manding languages "Maga" means 'great". Moreover, the name of the King of the Soninke (Manding) speaking empire of Ghana (300 BC to AD 1100) was called Manda.
The Magians or Medians, were probably descendants of the Manding tribes which also included the Garamantes of European and Libyan fame, and in Asia under the name of Mandaga/Medians. This view is supported by linguistic, historical and cultural data.
Mede taking horses to Sargon
.
The language of the Medes, like Elamite is genetically related to the Manding languages. In addition the term Mandaga agrees with the title of the Manding tribes: for example, Manda agrees with Mande, the name of major group of Africans, who along with the Dravidians settled many parts of Asia.
Further confirmation of the Mande origin of the Medes is haplogroup E3b. It is interesting to note that E3b is found in this area. The Manding speakers carry the E3b haplogroup.
Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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I mean what type of crack are you on, these guys look white, they have pointy boney noses and thin lips. Sure there are a few Africans who may have these traits but they are rare. Anyone with an ounce of sense would easily say that the features of these men are much more typical of Europeans or Arabs.
Look, try the following experiment. Print out the above picture, remove or cover up the caption, and make copies. On each copy list these questions:
1) where do you think the following people might come from?
2) How old do you think this sculpture might be?
3) Do these people look more like black people or white people?
.
^^^^^^Now give some random people (of various races) copies of the picture with these questions written below the picture. Don't say anything that might persuade them to a particular answer. Give this questionnaire to about 10 or more people. Just say you are doing some research could you answer these three questions.
posted
I mean what type of crack are you on, these guys look white, they have pointy boney noses and thin lips. Sure there are a few Africans who may have these traits but they are rare. Anyone with an ounce of sense would easily say that the features of these men are much more typical of Europeans or Arabs.
Look, try the following experiment. Print out the above picture, remove or cover up the caption, and make copies. On each copy list these questions:
1) where do you think the following people might come from?
2) How old do you think this sculpture might be?
3) Do these people look more like black people or white people?
.
^^^^^^Now give some random people (of various races) copies of the picture with these questions written below the picture. Don't say anything that might persuade them to a particular answer. Give this questionnaire to about 10 or more people. Just say you are doing some research could you answer these three questions.
Let's see who wins lioness or Mike
.
quote:
Clyde has provided linguistic, eye witness and genetic proof for his theory. Your 'test' is too subjective to be taken seriously.
Posts: 55 | From: nairobi | Registered: Jul 2011
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posted
Damm you people are crazy the Ancient Iranians were from Central Asia, they resembled todays Afghans the most as they live near the region that was the homeland of the Indo-Iranians.
Curly hair can found all around the world. The ancient reliefs just show a art foom rather then what they looked like, even Assyrian reliefs have themselves with curly hair.
My people are not not white and nor are we black. Stop trying steal my peoples history with your wacko claims. Iranians are proud of their history and don't need people trying to make claim with some nonsense like you crazy Afronuts and white Nordics claiming rubish claim about white Aryans.
a Iranian with who looks like the ancient reliefs.
Iran is a very hot country and here are pictures of Iranian with dark tans, look like.
quote:Originally posted by Captain00: Damm you people are crazy the Ancient Iranians were from Central Asia, they resembled todays Afghans the most as they live near the region that was the homeland of the Indo-Iranians.
Curly hair can found all around the world. The ancient reliefs just show a art foom rather then what they looked like, even Assyrian reliefs have themselves with curly hair.
My people are not not white and nor are we black. Stop trying steal my peoples history with your wacko claims. Iranians are proud of their history and don't need people trying to make claim with some nonsense like you crazy Afronuts and white Nordics claiming rubish claim about white Aryans.
a Iranian with who looks like the ancient reliefs.
Iran is a very hot country and here are pictures of Iranian with dark tans, look like.
posted
Trying to say we are Turks? LOL. Turks came from Mongolia and Siberia they invaded Central Asia and then Iran and Turkey. Their languages are under the mongoloid family branch. Most of the Turks in West Asia are Turkified natives. Even the Cenral Asian Turks are only partialy mongoloid, just look at Turkmenistan.
Why don't all the Iranian speaking people speak a Turkic language? why only a few who were Turkified and call themselves Turks. In Iran, Persian is only one of the Iranian languages, their is Kurdish,Gilak,Mazdarani,Talysh,Gorani,Lori,Balochi. For some reason why did all these groups keep their language and identity from the ancient times?
Also those pictures are of Qajars, the Qajars were Turkic family, but they were mostly Turkified Azaris, who were speaking a Iranian langauge like all the other groups. Even the name Azari is persian in origin.
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posted
Captain00 - People like you are truly annoying. You come here full of the lies of your people, never bothering to research anything. Leaving it to others to educate you.
Check you Turk mulatto cousins in Egypt, do you think that they are Egyptians, like you are Persian?
posted
No it is you who makes up lies and nonsense to feel good about your self. The people of Iran are the descendeds of the ancient Iranians in every aspect. Nothing of your twisted history claim can change that it is our history and heritage not yours.
Egyptians are not Turks, do they look like Siberians and speak a Turkic language?
Your fantasy that everyone is a Turk is laughable. Please go and do your own research on Turks, they were Mongoloids and came with the Mongol invasion. Turks in Central Asia and Mongolia are what Turks look like.
Turks in Turkey even have some Mongoloid DNA, that is low or absent among other Middle-Eastners.
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posted
Capt. Please do not mistake Mike and his ilk for the normal posters on E.S. Mike wants desperatly for the Persians to be black due to his inforitiy complex. Many here have already explained that the Persians were whites and no different than many modern day Iranians.
beauty is relative, the Ethiopians preferring the blackest and the most flat-nosed and the Persians approving the whitest and the most hook-nosed. Sextus Empiricus (Adv. Ethicos, 43.) 1st Century A.D
The whites at most consist of the people of Persia, Jibal, and Khurasan, the Greeks, Slavs, Franks, and Avars, and some few others, not very numerous;
Al Jahiz-Glory of the Sudan to Bidan(Blacks over the Whites)..9th Century
"I was sent to all mankind - the black and the red".
بعثت إلى الناس كافة الأحمر والأسود
Ibn Al-Athir said:
"The hadith says: 'I was sent to the black and the red (white/light-skinned)' - meaning the non-Arabs (Persians, etc) and the Arabs; because most non-Arabs (Persians etc) are red and white (light-skinned) and most Arabs are very dark-skinned and dark-skinned."
قال ابن الأثير: فيه "بعثت إلى الأحمر والأسود" أي العجم والعرب ؛ لأن الغالب على ألوان العجم الحُمْرة والبياض ، وعلى ألوان العرب الأُدْمَة والسُمرة
Mike is a fraud...
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: Capt. Please do not mistake Mike and his ilk for the normal posters on E.S. Mike wants desperatly for the Persians to be black due to his inforitiy complex. Many here have already explained that the Persians were whites and no different than many modern day Iranians.
beauty is relative, the Ethiopians preferring the blackest and the most flat-nosed and the Persians approving the whitest and the most hook-nosed. Sextus Empiricus (Adv. Ethicos, 43.) 1st Century A.D
The whites at most consist of the people of Persia, Jibal, and Khurasan, the Greeks, Slavs, Franks, and Avars, and some few others, not very numerous;
Al Jahiz-Glory of the Sudan to Bidan(Blacks over the Whites)..9th Century
"I was sent to all mankind - the black and the red".
بعثت إلى الناس كافة الأحمر والأسود
Ibn Al-Athir said:
"The hadith says: 'I was sent to the black and the red (white/light-skinned)' - meaning the non-Arabs (Persians, etc) and the Arabs; because most non-Arabs (Persians etc) are red and white (light-skinned) and most Arabs are very dark-skinned and dark-skinned."
قال ابن الأثير: فيه "بعثت إلى الأحمر والأسود" أي العجم والعرب ؛ لأن الغالب على ألوان العجم الحُمْرة والبياض ، وعلى ألوان العرب الأُدْمَة والسُمرة
Mike is a fraud...
Mike soon come post out him tripe....
and here it comes.....
Posts: 3446 | From: U.S. by way of JA by way of Africa | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
The Persians may not be White in the modern sense(Anglo or Germanic) but they were historically seen as whites by the Arabs, Greco-Romans, etc. I don't agree that the Persians were the Neo-Nazi defintion of "Aryan"(blond hair and Blue eyes) nor do they have anything to do with Western and Northern Europeans.
But to be clar there were some Tribes in PErsia described as Red Haired and blue eyed.
Some Modern Persians AKA "Iranians" look nothing like Turks nor like Arabs. Hell Id piss my pants if some of them were not called "White" in America esp. if they spoke with out an accent and fully assimilated.
Lets not forget that Perisa was heavily involved with slaves, both mamluk and Zanj.(African) Don't forget about the famous Zanj revolt which resulted in Highly racist slandering of the Zanj by Persian intellectuals(Which is commonly used as proof of black hatred by muslims on White Racist and White Nationalist sites). Don't forget Persia's most famous Scholar Al-Jahiz from Basra was of African origin.
To this day Al-Jahiz's decendants and that of the Zanj still face oppresion in Basra from the Persians...
quote:Originally posted by Captain00: Damm you people are crazy the Ancient Iranians were from Central Asia, they resembled todays Afghans the most as they live near the region that was the homeland of the Indo-Iranians.
Curly hair can found all around the world. The ancient reliefs just show a art foom rather then what they looked like, even Assyrian reliefs have themselves with curly hair.
My people are not not white and nor are we black. Stop trying steal my peoples history with your wacko claims. Iranians are proud of their history and don't need people trying to make claim with some nonsense like you crazy Afronuts and white Nordics claiming rubish claim about white Aryans.
a Iranian with who looks like the ancient reliefs.
Iran is a very hot country and here are pictures of Iranian with dark tans, look like.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
I don't think everyone here is like that guy Mike. I am sure their are reasnoble people on here.
I don't consider us Iranians as white as the term is for Europeans and Nordics, who even make crazy claims that ancient Iranians were Nordic, which is nonsense. Ancient Iranians resembled today's iranians. Who had came from central Asia and mixed with the natives..
Posts: 21 | Registered: Jul 2011
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posted
^^^^ Yeah but Persia AKA Iran has had quite a number of people migrating esp. after the expansion of Islam. Alot of Persians probably mixed with Arabs, Turks, Africans, also Indians possibly. I would agree that Persians are not "white" in the modern sense but some do share features typical of Southern Europeans.
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posted
Yes their has been some mixing, but I don't think the genetics has changed much since the ancient times as tribes like Lors and Kurds keep to themselves. The homeland of Iranians was central Asia. People like the Afghans and Tajiks resemble maybe what early iranians looked like.
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quote:Originally posted by Captain00: I don't think everyone here is like that guy Mike. I am sure their are reasnoble people on here.
I don't consider us Iranians as white as the term is for Europeans and Nordics, who even make crazy claims that ancient Iranians were Nordic, which is nonsense. Ancient Iranians resembled today's iranians. Who had came from central Asia and mixed with the natives..
You originally said PERSIANS!!
If you had said IRANIANS - even though there is no such ethnicity, I would have answered differently.
BTW - Central Asians WERE White Europeans and Nordics.
BTW TruthAndRights - Knowing the subject matter, and being able to articulate it correctly, in the correct vernacular, IS in this environment - superior.
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In 1935 the Iranian government requested those countries with which it had diplomatic relations, to call Persia "Iran". The suggestion for the change is said to have come from the Iranian ambassador to Germany, who came under the influence of the Nazis. At the time Germany was in the grip of racial fever and cultivated good relations with nations of "Arian" blood. It is said that some German friends of the ambassador persuaded him that, as with the advent of Reza Shah, Persia had turned a new leaf in its history. It was only fitting that the country be called "Iran." This would not only signal a new beginning, and bring home to the world, the new era in history, but would also signify the NOW Arian race of its population, as "Iran" is a cognate of "Arian" and derived from it.
The literal meaning is often given as Iran = "Land of the Arians".
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posted
Iranians themselves never reffered to Iran as Persia, it was Aryanam and the Sassanids were the ones who coined up the term E-ran.
Please don't mix the nonsense of the nazi's with iran. Europeans just want make claim to history of iran.
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quote:Originally posted by kikuyu2: Clyde has provided linguistic, eye witness and genetic proof for his theory. Your 'test' is too subjective to be taken seriously.
It ALWAYS is. I wish she'd shut her pie hole and allow the Professor to teach!
Posts: 2403 | Registered: Feb 2010
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posted
^^^^^^^ M.K I think you have the wrong thread..??
quote:Originally posted by Captain00: Yes their has been some mixing, but I don't think the genetics has changed much since the ancient times as tribes like Lors and Kurds keep to themselves. The homeland of Iranians was central Asia. People like the Afghans and Tajiks resemble maybe what early iranians looked like.
For the life of me I can't find any studies on modern Iranian Genetics..
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Captain00: Iranians themselves never reffered to Iran as Persia, it was Aryanam and the Sassanids were the ones who coined up the term E-ran.
Please don't mix the nonsense of the nazi's with iran. Europeans just want make claim to history of iran.
Yes, you are correct, it WAS Aryanam (the word is actually "Achaemenians") and the Sassanians who PERSIA refers to. Aryans is what the Medes were originally called.
It is in the north-central Zagros region that we first find mention of Parsua, a nation that many regard as a predecessor nation to Parsa or Persia. This mention was in an inscription from 844 BCE that records an Assyrian military expedition into the Zagros.
We first hear about Parsua in the inscriptions of Assyrian King Shalmaneser III (859-824 BCE) who, in the fashion of other Assyrian kings, maintained a record of his campaigns. In 844 BCE, Shalmaneser overran northern Zamua, the Mannaean kingdom around Lake Urmia, Allabria (often associated with Mannea), Parsua, Madai (Media), Araziash (later associated with Media), and Harhar. [Harhar (around present-day Kermanshah) which stood at the western entrance to Media lands eventually became Assyria's administrative centre for Media.]
In the inscriptions recording these plundering raids, Shalmaneser states that he extracted tribute from twenty-seven kings or chieftains of Parsua. With the considerable number of groups or nations mentioned in Shalmaneser's inscriptions, we are also introduced to the concept that the Parsa and other peoples of the region were organized as a large number of distinct groups - each ruled by local kings or chieftains (rather than a few united kingdoms). We therefore gather from the Assyrian inscriptions that until this time in history, the Medes and the Persians were organized as loose federations of autonomous districts - each district with its own king or chief.
The Parsua later migrated south, into what is now called Fars, in southwestern Iran.
posted
TruthAndRights - After I am finished with this ignoramus, who doesn't even know his own countries history, I would gladly teach a little on the history of Jamaica.
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posted
It was Aryana/Aryanam before Eran, not the name of dynasty achaemenids. I think I know the history of my people better then you.
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quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: ^^^^^^^ M.K I think you have the wrong thread..??
quote:Originally posted by Captain00: Yes their has been some mixing, but I don't think the genetics has changed much since the ancient times as tribes like Lors and Kurds keep to themselves. The homeland of Iranians was central Asia. People like the Afghans and Tajiks resemble maybe what early iranians looked like.
For the life of me I can't find any studies on modern Iranian Genetics..
Their are some on the web somewhere, just do a Google search. But I am sure iranians are a mix of west Asians and central Asians.
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Arya means Nobel. It has no racial meaning.
It was what tribes used also refer to themselves as they were related tribes hence "land of aryans". Their is town called Aryan in Kurdistan province.
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quote:Originally posted by Captain00: I don't think everyone here is like that guy Mike. I am sure their are reasnoble people on here.
I don't consider us Iranians as white as the term is for Europeans and Nordics, who even make crazy claims that ancient Iranians were Nordic, which is nonsense. Ancient Iranians resembled today's iranians. Who had came from central Asia and mixed with the natives..
You originally said PERSIANS!!
If you had said IRANIANS - even though there is no such ethnicity, I would have answered differently.
BTW - Central Asians WERE White Europeans and Nordics.
BTW TruthAndRights - Knowing the subject matter, and being able to articulate it correctly, in the correct vernacular, IS in this environment - superior.
Mi throw mi corn, mi nuh call no fowl...ah you choose fe pick it up....
Posts: 3446 | From: U.S. by way of JA by way of Africa | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: TruthAndRights - After I am finished with this ignoramus, who doesn't even know his own countries history, I would gladly teach a little on the history of Jamaica.
Considering that is the land of my birth and where I grew up- my HOMELAND, I SERIOUSLY doubt that you can do so....YANKEE BLOODCLAAT BWOY worry bout ya owna roots...I will worry bout mine...remember you must read it- but dat place deh you READ fe learn bout (or maybe you travel visit and stay in tourist areas; when I visit I stay with my family- no tourist ting for mi), MI DID BAWN AND GROW DEH MI FAMILY LIVE DEH AND MI WILL RETURN DEH UPON RETIREMENT IF NOT SOONER....LOL I DON'T EVEN HAVE AMERICAN CITIZENSHIP....you can NEVA know Jamdung like mi or Brada...
KMRT your arrogance knows no bounds, eeeeeh? You cyan draw mi out tiday doah....
claffy and everyone seet but you and your yes-man dem Posts: 3446 | From: U.S. by way of JA by way of Africa | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Captain00: Lies? Don't make me laugh. People of iran know their history better then outsiders.
I don't why I even reply to such nonsense. See you and khoda hefez
TruthAndRights - That sounds pretty much the same as your statement.
Obviously Captain00 knows nothing of Persian history, so it just being a place of ones birth, means nothing.
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William Leo Hansberry gives a great discussion of the evidence of African Kushites ruling in Asia and Africa. Some ancient scholars noted that the first rulers of Elam were of Kushite ( Kerma ? ) origin. According to Strabo, the first Elamite colony at Susa was founded by Tithnus, a King of Kush. Strabo in Book 15, Chapter 3728 wrote that in fact it is claimed that Susa was founded by Tithonus Memnon's father, and his citadel bore the name Memnonium. The Susians are also called Cissians. Aeschylus, calls Memnon's mother Cissia.
Here is King Xerxes and other Persian Brothers .
William Leo Hansberry, African History Notebook, (1981) Volume 2 noted that:
In Persia the old Negroid element seems indeed to have been sufficiently powerful to maintain the overlord of the land. For the Negritic strain is clearly evident in statuary depicting members of the royal family ruling in the second millenium B.C.
Hundreds of years later, when Xerxes invaded Greece, the type was well represented in the Persian army. In the remote mountain regions bordering on Persia and Baluchistan, there is to be found at the present time a Negroid element which bears a remarkable resemblance to the type represented on the ancient mounments. Hence the Negritic or Ethiopian type has proved persistent in this area, and in ancient times it seems to have constituted numerically and socially an important factor in the population" (p.52) .
posted
The Persians spoke Old Persian which was Elamite. So why can't they be called Elamites?
The ancient Persians wrote in Elamite. Aryan is not an ethnonyn. Aryan just means nobel.
The people ruling Iran today are not Persians. They do not speak the Persian languages.
The Classical writers said the Elamites were Kushites.
I believe the Kushites introduced Eb3 to Eurasia. Luis, et. al argue that the presence of Egyptian lineage (E3b1-M78)(c.7.8kya) is consistent with northbound migrations of this haplotype - thru the levant - reflected in M78 males as far north as Turkey (c.4.8kya) .In Asia the Kushites were called Kushiya.
The date 4.8ky is very interesting. It is around this time that we find the rise of a number of Kushite tribes in the region: the Kassites, the Kaska and the Hattian tribes in Anatolia. It was probably these Kushite tribes that introduced the second wave of Eb3b1-M78 lineages into Turkey.
For example, the Elamites called themselves KHATAM, and their capital Susa:KUSSI. In addition, the Kassites, who occupied the central part of the Zagros mountains were called KASHSHU. The Kushana, formerly occupied Chinese Turkistan (Xinjiang) and the Gansu province of China.
The Kushites in Asia, as in Africa were known for their skill as bowmen :Steu , the name of the people of Ta-Seti.
The decipherer of the cuneiform writing of Mesopotamia, Rawlingson, said Puntites and Kushites were established in Asia. He found mention of Kushiya and Puntiya in the inscriptions of Darius. He also made it clear that the name Kush was also applied to southern Persia, India, Elam, Arabia, and Colchis (a part of southern Russia/Turkistan) in ancient times.
The Armenians made it clear that the ancients called Persia, Media,Elam Aria, and the entire area between the Tigris and Indus rivers Kush. Bardesones, writing in his Book of the Laws of Countries, in the 2nd Century said that the "Bactrians who we called Qushani (or Kushans)".
The Armenians, called the earlier Parthian: Kushan and acknowledged their connection with them. Homer, Herodotus, and the Roman scholar Strabo called southern Persia AETHIOPIA. The Greeks and Romans called the country east of Kerma: Kusan.
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-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
Oh my this thread has started geting full of non sense, specialy those comedy pictures above and using Afrocentric sources and making up nonsense.
I have already said what I came to say. Even a member on here provided sources that say what the Ancient Iranians(including Persians) looked like their is even a painting/Mosiac a of Darius III that shows how people saw Persians and they looked pretty similar to what ehy looked like today. My ancestors came from Central Asia, our languages are all related to eachother and have a common origin in Central Asia.
I am proud of my ancestors and what they did, you nuts will not change anything with your fantasy.
Posts: 21 | Registered: Jul 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: The Persians spoke Old Persian which was Elamite. So why can't they be called Elamites?
The ancient Persians wrote in Elamite. Aryan is not an ethnonyn. Aryan just means nobel.
The people ruling Iran today are not Persians. They do not speak the Persian languages.
The Classical writers said the Elamites were Kushites.
I believe the Kushites introduced Eb3 to Eurasia. Luis, et. al argue that the presence of Egyptian lineage (E3b1-M78)(c.7.8kya) is consistent with northbound migrations of this haplotype - thru the levant - reflected in M78 males as far north as Turkey (c.4.8kya) .In Asia the Kushites were called Kushiya.
The date 4.8ky is very interesting. It is around this time that we find the rise of a number of Kushite tribes in the region: the Kassites, the Kaska and the Hattian tribes in Anatolia. It was probably these Kushite tribes that introduced the second wave of Eb3b1-M78 lineages into Turkey.
For example, the Elamites called themselves KHATAM, and their capital Susa:KUSSI. In addition, the Kassites, who occupied the central part of the Zagros mountains were called KASHSHU. The Kushana, formerly occupied Chinese Turkistan (Xinjiang) and the Gansu province of China.
The Kushites in Asia, as in Africa were known for their skill as bowmen :Steu , the name of the people of Ta-Seti.
The decipherer of the cuneiform writing of Mesopotamia, Rawlingson, said Puntites and Kushites were established in Asia. He found mention of Kushiya and Puntiya in the inscriptions of Darius. He also made it clear that the name Kush was also applied to southern Persia, India, Elam, Arabia, and Colchis (a part of southern Russia/Turkistan) in ancient times.
The Armenians made it clear that the ancients called Persia, Media,Elam Aria, and the entire area between the Tigris and Indus rivers Kush. Bardesones, writing in his Book of the Laws of Countries, in the 2nd Century said that the "Bactrians who we called Qushani (or Kushans)".
The Armenians, called the earlier Parthian: Kushan and acknowledged their connection with them. Homer, Herodotus, and the Roman scholar Strabo called southern Persia AETHIOPIA. The Greeks and Romans called the country east of Kerma: Kusan.
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What a bunch of BS, the Persians occupied the Elamites and were influenced by them in culture, they were not Elamites themselves. Persians created their own writing and had their own language that was similar to the Medes and other Iranian languages that Greeks mentioned.
Persians are not Persians? LOL. What you believe my ancestors were some Turks who came from Siberia? LOL, like your loonie brother Mike?
Trying to use nonsense such as having similar sounding words and connecting with Africa is laughable. The Kushan were a indo-european people from central asia .
Just because words sound similar does not mean they some how have connection to some other people on a different part of the world. I don't know how you come up with that none sense.
Posts: 21 | Registered: Jul 2011
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posted
Clyde - I am still trying to find an accurate translation for Darius's tomb inscriptions. The translations that I have found do not match the subjects holding up the throne.
The inscriptions on the upper and central registers of his tomb (DNa and DNb) are well-known, but there are several smaller texts on the same monument: two trilingual honorific inscriptions for the courtiers Gobryas and Aspathines, and inscriptions naming the figures supporting Darius' throne. Because inscription DNe mentions Macedonians, it must have been made after 512 B.C.
Inscription DNe, identifies the people holding up his throne.
1. This is the Persian. 2. This is the Mede. 3. This is the Elamite. 4. This is the Parthian. 5. This is the Arian. 6. This is the Bactrian. 7. This is the Sogdian. 8. This is the Chorasmian. 9. This is the Drangian. 10. This is the Arachosian. 11. This is the Sattagydian. 12. This is the Gandaran. 13. This is the man of Sind. 14. This is the haoma-drinking Saca.
15. This is the Saca with the pointed hat. 16. This is the Babylonian. 17. This is the Syrian. 18. This is the Arab. 19. This is the Egyptian. 20. This is the Armenian. 21. This is the Cappadocian. 22. This is the Lydian. 23. This is the Greek. 24. This is the Scythian from across the sea. 25. This is the Thracian. 26. This is the Macedonian. 27. This is the Libyan. 28. This is the Kushite. 29. This is the man of Maka. 30. This is the Carian.
This is the man of Maka.
This is the Carian.
Clyde - Do you know of anyone who has actually seen and translated the inscriptions?
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
What a bunch of BS, the Persians occupied the Elamites and were influenced by them in culture, they were not Elamites themselves. Persians created their own writing and had their own language that was similar to the Medes and other Iranian languages that Greeks mentioned.
Persians are not Persians? LOL. What you believe my ancestors were some Turks who came from Siberia? LOL, like your loonie brother Mike?
Trying to use nonsense such as having similar sounding words and connecting with Africa is laughable. The Kushan were a indo-european people from central asia .
Just because words sound similar does not mean they some how have connection to some other people on a different part of the world. I don't know how you come up with that none sense.
quote:
Captain00,someone once said "if you can't support your theory with facts and figures,its time to change your mind"-or words to that effect. Winters has facts and figures while you have only dogma,or the lies you've internalised like most of your countrymen. This isn't a flamewar. Let's hear all the evidence supporting your case indicating there were never Africans in ancient Elam/Susa/Babylon or that if they were present,they were insignificant slaves.
Posts: 55 | From: nairobi | Registered: Jul 2011
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posted
The term Persian translates to "from or of Persis" which is a region north of the Persian Gulf located in Pars, Iran. It was from this region that Cyrus the Great the founder of the Achaemenid empire, united all other Iranian empires (such as the Medes and the Elamites), and expanded the Persian cultural and social influences by incorporating the Babylonian empire, and the Lydian empire. Although not the first Iranian empire, the Achaemenid empire is the first Persian empire well recognized by Greek and Persian historians for its massive cultural, military and social influences going as far as Athens, Egypt, and Libya
>>>>Old Persian, the main language of the Achaemenid inscriptions, should not be confused with the non-Indo-European Elamite language (see Behistun inscription).
In the Sassanid Empire the intermingling of Persians, Medes, Parthians, Bactrians and indigenous people of Iran, including the Elamites gained more ground and a homogeneous Iranian identity was created to the extent that all were just called Iranians/Persians irrespective of clannish affiliations and regional linguistic or dialectical alterities. The Elamite language may have survived as late as the early Islamic period. Ibn al-Nadim among other medieval historians, for instance, wrote that "The Iranian languages are Fahlavi (Pahlavi), Dari, Khuzi, Persian and Suryani", and Ibn Moqaffa noted that Khuzi was the unofficial language of the royalty of Persia, "Khuz" being the corrupted name for Elam. However the Elamite identity might have vanished already. As to Strabo, the Cyrtians who were plausibly the ancestors of the modern Kurds were called one of the Persian tribes. Cyrtians, the generally accepted progenitors of the Kurds and Lurs might already have been significantly scattered in the Zagros from Persis into Media
ELAMITE
A man with thick large scale curls and thin lips
this is supposed to prove he was black? who takes this seriously?
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
The language of the Medes, like Elamite is genetically related to the Manding languages.
Please site one scholarly source other than Clyde Winters which says the Elamite language is genetically related to the Manding languages.
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
For the 100th time, you basing your nonsense that they had curly hair. Here is a picture of Darius the great with straight hair, you can see that the rest as been curled, like that of Assyrians.
Do you have some kind of dream in which you imagin they were your ancestors? Well they were NOT.
Heres the picture I posted earlier, that shows that Persians today can look like the reliefs. .
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Captain00 - Here is a blow-up of Darius's tomb at Naqsh-e Rostam. When you find someone who looks like you, point him out.
posted
What Evidence did he present? he made up a bunch of connections with his own mind and came to a conclusion. No credible historian supports his ludacris claim. He used a afrocentric source for one of his claims and presented funny pictures where some of them even have been altered.
Their are many credible sources about who the Medes and Persians, were. Kurds in the North are the descendeds of the Medes. Their was a Median tribe called the Maji. Today their is Kurdish language called "Kurmanji". In the middle-ages it was written as "Kurmaji", meaning the children of Maji. So Clydes claim that Medes were African is just utter nonsense. The Medes even had 2 Scythian tribes among them.
Medes and Scythians were very close, because they were related tribes who spoke a similar language, the Sycthians were always described as light haired and light eyes.
The Lors in Iran, still wear the hats that the Medes wore.
Sycthian and a Mede
Persians came from Central Asia just like all other Iranian tribes and first settled around like Urmia as mentioned in Assyrian records and later they moved to the south.
The Elamites were a mix of Middle-Easteners and Dravidians they were dark skinned. The Tamil people in india are what they looked like. Persians were not Elamties, they were influenced by them. Their are today Arabs living in the region where the Elamites lived.
quote:Originally posted by kikuyu2: What a bunch of BS, the Persians occupied the Elamites and were influenced by them in culture, they were not Elamites themselves. Persians created their own writing and had their own language that was similar to the Medes and other Iranian languages that Greeks mentioned.
Persians are not Persians? LOL. What you believe my ancestors were some Turks who came from Siberia? LOL, like your loonie brother Mike?
Trying to use nonsense such as having similar sounding words and connecting with Africa is laughable. The Kushan were a indo-european people from central asia .
Just because words sound similar does not mean they some how have connection to some other people on a different part of the world. I don't know how you come up with that none sense.
quote:
Captain00,someone once said "if you can't support your theory with facts and figures,its time to change your mind"-or words to that effect. Winters has facts and figures while you have only dogma,or the lies you've internalised like most of your countrymen. This isn't a flamewar. Let's hear all the evidence supporting your case indicating there were never Africans in ancient Elam/Susa/Babylon or that if they were present,they were insignificant slaves.
posted
I mysekf believe the Elamites were likely a mix of Middle-Eastner semites and Dravidians. But I do not think they came from Africa.
Also I have already present mike with Persians with curly hair that resemble the ancient reliefs, yet he ignores it. Even a picture of Darius the great with his natural hair.
Clyde winters, on the other hand seems lke a loonie, from reading his other theorys on the board, no point in even replying to his posts.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: The term Persian translates to "from or of Persis" which is a region north of the Persian Gulf located in Pars, Iran. It was from this region that Cyrus the Great the founder of the Achaemenid empire, united all other Iranian empires (such as the Medes and the Elamites), and expanded the Persian cultural and social influences by incorporating the Babylonian empire, and the Lydian empire. Although not the first Iranian empire, the Achaemenid empire is the first Persian empire well recognized by Greek and Persian historians for its massive cultural, military and social influences going as far as Athens, Egypt, and Libya
>>>>Old Persian, the main language of the Achaemenid inscriptions, should not be confused with the non-Indo-European Elamite language (see Behistun inscription).
In the Sassanid Empire the intermingling of Persians, Medes, Parthians, Bactrians and indigenous people of Iran, including the Elamites gained more ground and a homogeneous Iranian identity was created to the extent that all were just called Iranians/Persians irrespective of clannish affiliations and regional linguistic or dialectical alterities. The Elamite language may have survived as late as the early Islamic period. Ibn al-Nadim among other medieval historians, for instance, wrote that "The Iranian languages are Fahlavi (Pahlavi), Dari, Khuzi, Persian and Suryani", and Ibn Moqaffa noted that Khuzi was the unofficial language of the royalty of Persia, "Khuz" being the corrupted name for Elam. However the Elamite identity might have vanished already. As to Strabo, the Cyrtians who were plausibly the ancestors of the modern Kurds were called one of the Persian tribes. Cyrtians, the generally accepted progenitors of the Kurds and Lurs might already have been significantly scattered in the Zagros from Persis into Media
ELAMITE
A man with thick large scale curls and thin lips
this is supposed to prove he was black? who takes this seriously?
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
The language of the Medes, like Elamite is genetically related to the Manding languages.
Please site one scholarly source other than Clyde Winters which says the Elamite language is genetically related to the Manding languages.
quote:Originally posted by Captain00: For the 100th time, you basing your nonsense that they had curly hair. Here is a picture of Darius the great with straight hair, you can see that the rest as been curled, like that of Assyrians.
Do you have some kind of dream in which you imagin they were your ancestors? Well they were NOT.
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Captain00 - Here is a blow-up of Darius's tomb at Naqsh-e Rostam. When you find someone who looks like you, point him out.
I opened a new thread about hair, just for nitwits like you. Yet you ignore it and continue with your hopeless quest to be a Persian - how silly. But not new, your mulatto cousins in Egypt went through the same thing.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
First of all Darius hair is not pulled and tied like the girls, his look naturaly straight from the top like all near his ears.
You claim that my ancesors were black is still utter nonsense, I have shown you pictures of Persians with curly hair, it is not a rare thing in Iran, you even have it among Europeans. My own mother has curly wavy hair.
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
quote:Originally posted by Captain00: For the 100th time, you basing your nonsense that they had curly hair. Here is a picture of Darius the great with straight hair, you can see that the rest as been curled, like that of Assyrians.
Do you have some kind of dream in which you imagin they were your ancestors? Well they were NOT.
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Captain00 - Here is a blow-up of Darius's tomb at Naqsh-e Rostam. When you find someone who looks like you, point him out.
I opened a new thread about hair, just for nitwits like you. Yet you ignore it and continue with your hopeless quest to be a Persian - how silly. But not new, your mulatto cousins in Egypt went through the same thing.
posted
Captain00 quote: "You claim that my ancesors were black is still utter nonsense, I have shown you pictures of Persians with curly hair, it is not a rare thing in Iran, you even have it among Europeans. My own mother has curly wavy hair."
Who said that they were YOUR ancestors?
Prove your connection to that country as it originally was! Americans can't do it - and neither can you!
YOU SHOW ME A PICTURE OF A PERSIAN WHO LOOKS LIKE YOU!
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
and here it comes.....
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Considering that is the land of my birth and where I grew up- my HOMELAND, I SERIOUSLY doubt that you can do so....YANKEE BLOODCLAAT BWOY worry bout ya owna roots...I will worry bout mine...remember you must read it- but dat place deh you READ fe learn bout (or maybe you travel visit and stay in tourist areas; when I visit I stay with my family- no tourist ting for mi), MI DID BAWN AND GROW DEH MI FAMILY LIVE DEH AND MI WILL RETURN DEH UPON RETIREMENT IF NOT SOONER....LOL I DON'T EVEN HAVE AMERICAN CITIZENSHIP....you can NEVA know Jamdung like mi or Brada... ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
claffy 
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