posted
awlaadberry or dana what are your thoughts on Arab slavery? How do you think the Arabs handled their slaves? They seemed to have organized and expanded African slavery. They did it their way. Supposedly over a 1400 year period they killed or castrated a lot of African men and millions died on long import routes. They seemed to prefer female slaves for sex and household duties.
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posted
^Ha,ha,ha - You know lioness, every time I think that Whites could not possibly be MORE degenerate liars, I'm proven wrong, and find that they CAN indeed be more degenerate.
Ordinarily Slavery is not something that I pay much attention to, but yesterday in the Indian civilization thread Confirming Truth posted this.
quote:Originally posted by Confirming Truth: And Mike, please do tell what happened to the millions of slaves (and their descendants)exported to Asia?
Now I knew what the fool was trying to do (suggest that the Blacks in India and Asia were brought there as slaves). But I just blew it off as the rantings of a fool.
But now that you, a true degenerate if there ever was one, has take up the same nonsense. I decided to take a closer look at the issue.
What I found is that you two White degenerates, reflect a long used White tactic to explain the presence of Blacks in areas where your made-up White history says the ancient people, and the creators of those civilizations were White.
But luckily, though Whites are degenerate liars, they are not good liars, therefore applying a little logic, common sense, and some real history, quickly revels your lies. For this exersize in exposing truth, and demonstrating White degeneracy, I am going to use the Wiki article on slavery, as I think that accurately reflects the White Corpus of lies, designed to augment your made-up White history.
Since you brought-up Arab slavery, lets begin there.
Wiki Article:
The Arab slave trade lasted more than a millennium. Slaves in the Arab World came from many different regions, including Sub-Saharan Africa (mainly Zanj), the Caucasus (mainly Circassians), Central Asia (mainly Tartars), and Central and Eastern Europe (mainly Saqaliba).
The medieval scholar and traveller Ibn Battuta states several times that he was given or purchased slaves. The Arab or Middle Eastern slave trade is thought to have originated with trans-Saharan slavery. Arab, Indian, and Oriental traders were involved in the capture and transport of slaves northward across the Sahara desert and the Indian Ocean region into Arabia and the Middle East, Persia, Central Asia and the Indian subcontinent. The slave trade from East Africa to Arabia was dominated by Arab and African traders in the coastal cities of Zanzibar, Dar Es Salaam and Mombasa. Tens of thousands of black Zanj slaves were imported to lower Iraq, where they may have, according to Richard Hellie, constituted at least a half of the total population there in the 9th and 10th centuries. At the same time, many tens of thousands of slaves in the region were also imported from Central Asia and the Caucasus. Note: Babylon was one of the most densely populated areas in the ancient world, so we are talking about maybe 2.5 to 5,000,000 slaves.
First, lets see what history says about Iraq (Baghdad) at that time.
The Samanids
the Samanids' origin was Saman-Khoda, a descendant of Bahram Chubin, the Sassanian general. Saman had became a Muslim and his four grandsons were rewarded for services to the Arab caliph al-Ma'mun (reigned 813–833) and received the caliph's investiture for areas that included Samarkand and Herat. They thus gained wealthy Transoxanian and the east Khorasanian entry-port cities, where they could profit from trade that reached across Asia, even as far as Scandinavia. And from providing Turkish slaves—much in demand in Baghdad as royal troops (Mamluks).
So lets see, much of Iraqs population was Turkish slaves, and half was African slaves - WHERE WERE THE SUMERIANS/BABYLONIANS???? ACCORDING TO WHITE HISTORY, IT WAS AN EMPTY LAND!
Better yet, WHERE did they get these Slaves? Sudan - Not a chance, the Arabs never conquered Sudan.
Ethiopia - Don't think so, at that time, Ethiopia was united under the Aksumite Empire.
Sub-Sahara Africa - Lets see now, how would dumb-ass Arabs, who had no navy or Merchant navy to speak of. And were busy in the north and Asia trying to conquer new lands, manage to transport millions of African slaves to Baghdad?
Overland - Not a chance. By Sea - With what?
Backing-up: Iraq was originally a Black land, now it's White and mulatto. Clearly, that White mans lie is really about providing cover for those Whites and mulattoes - if the Blacks are there as a result of slavery, then that makes the Whites and mulattoes - THE ORIGINAL PEOPLE! He,he, the White man sure is smart! He, he.
The Moroccan Sultan Moulay Ismail "the Bloodthirsty" (1672–1727) raised a corps of 150,000 sub-Saharan black slaves, called his Black Guard, who coerced the country into submission.
White mans depiction - no idea what he really looked like.
This one is just Tooo stupid!
People - to be worthwhile soldiers, they would have to capture, and transport, GROWN MEN IN THEIR PRIME!
This is not like the American slave trade, where women, children, and everybody was taken. These were just MEN.
Point being, it would have taken an army almost as big as the number of Slaves taken! Since his whole point in bringing in sub-Saharans was because he COULDN'T RAISE AN ARMY!
I won't even mention the stupidity of expecting a Black man, with the gun that you just gave him, not shooting you for what you did to him.
Well Like I said, this one was really stupid.Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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India Arab slave traders also brought slaves as early as the 1st century AD from Africa. Most of the African slaves were brought however in the 17th century and were taken into Western India. The Siddi people are of mainly East African descent.
Article from another Wiki-like White source:
Siddi tribe is one of the major tribal communities of Gujarat and this tribe is also known by the names of Siddhi, Sheedi and Habshi. This tribal community has occupied a considerable portion of the state of Gujarat. Apart from Gujarat, the Siddi tribal community resides in some parts of Karnataka, Goa and Maharashtra. The word Siddi is a derivation of the Arabic word `sayyid` or `saydi`. It means captive, or slave. Due to the rich heritage of the origin of the Siddi tribes, the anthropologists are being rightly attracted towards this Siddi tribal community and thus carried on several surveys on them over the years. Especially in Junagadh district of Gujarat, these Siddi tribes have got a major concentration.
History of Siddi Tribe In the period of eleventh to nineteenth century, the ancestors of these Siddi tribes have migrated to several places of Gujarat. To be specific, knowing the strength and power of these Siddi tribes, all the royal kings of India hired most of these Siddi tribes and there was huge infiltration of the Siddi tribes from foreign lands. It is an ethnic group having Black African descent. It has been said that African ancestors of this tribal community came to India during the 10th century with the Arab merchants. In spite of their reputation as fine fighters, several of these Siddi tribes worked as domestic servants and as labourers in the farmlands. In order to create their own separate communities, a handful of these Siddi tribes also took refuge in the interiors of the forest areas. Much later in the beginning of the 20th century, in the provinces of Janjira and Jafrabad, small Siddi lands were formed. This Janjira Island was also called Habshan, implying to be the land of the Habshis. Quite a few kings of West Bengal in the 15th century were descended from the Siddi tribes. Siddi tribes also played a significant part in the history of West India, predominantly in the struggle between the Marathas and the Mughal rulers. Further, in the British era Siddi tribes have acclaimed the position of several military and governmental leaders.
^Even the White mans own bullsh1t is contradictory
Siddi women
As before, this is the White man trying to explain-away the presence of African people, where his made-up White history doesn't want them.
Firstly, part of the Black component there, ARE NOT Africans - they are ARABS!
I quote from a correct to the Wiki article. "Siddis are categorized into two groups: the Zanji Siddis were brought to Pakistan and India by the Arabs as soldiers during their first Islamic invasion of the sub-continent in 712 A.D"
Now that makes a lot more sense, doesn't it?
It is also supported by known historical behavior.
But the Siddis aren't really the issue - they are a very small community - less that 50,000. The White mans duplicity goes way beyond the Siddis.
He is trying to explain-away the descendants of THESE people.
Anyone who has ever visited the University of Chicago's Oriental studies site, knows that they have these "Tribute Bearers to Darius the Great" circa 450 B.C. tagged as "Ethiopians".
The problem is: the Persians NEVER CONQUERED Ethiopia or Sudan.
The fact is, those people are not African at all, they are Asians from the northern Pakistani and Afghanistani satraps. (The Persian Empire stopped at about the Indus river in Pakistan).
And the proof is VERY simple. "Tribute Bearers" brought goods from their OWN country!
BTW - The degenerate White man LIVES on the IGNORANCE of others. Thus you will see that Nilgai called an African Okapi by the White man.
That is just to fool and confuse you. This is an African Okapi. Aside from the markings, the back is not as sloped, and the ears are large, they are not the same!
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: [QB] ^Ha,ha,ha - You know lioness, every time I think that Whites could not possibly be MORE degenerate liars, I'm proven wrong, and find that they CAN indeed be more degenerate.
Ordinarily Slavery is not something that I pay much attention to,
I wonder why.
Your ramblings as usual are incoherent and foaming at the mouth with emotionalism. You seem like someone who never learned the basic format of writing an essay or engaging in a debate. basically you head is far up your ass without a clue
This why this thread is addressed to awlaadberry and dana because don't know sh!t about the subject and you can't articulate properly.
Even after to doing some rude-imentary wiki research you spout ignorant confused "reasoning", not making clear points but as usual throwing out dumb questions relying on inneudo
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
Better yet, WHERE did they get these Slaves? Sudan - Not a chance, the Arabs never conquered Sudan.
Ethiopia - Don't think so, at that time, Ethiopia was united under the Aksumite Empire.
Sub-Sahara Africa - Lets see now, how would dumb-ass Arabs, who had no navy or Merchant navy to speak of. And were busy in the north and Asia trying to conquer new lands, manage to transport millions of African slaves to Baghdad?
Dumb one, slavery in Arabia goes back to pre-Isamic times. The Muslims organized and greatly expanded it. It included multi millions of Africans, many of the males killed, castrated the majority dying in transfer. It included blacks and a smaller number of whites. Nubia had been "supply zone" for slaves since antiquity. The Ethiopian coast, particularly the port of Massawa and Dahlak Archipelago, had long been a hub for the exportation of slaves from the interior, even in Aksumite times. The port and most coastal areas were largely Muslim, and the port itself was home to a number of Arab and Indian merchants.
see > Pankhurst, Richard. The Ethiopian Borderlands: Essays in Regional History from Ancient Times to the End of the 18th Century (Asmara, Eritrea: Red Sea Press, 1997), pp.416
posted
Lioness my dear, there are lots of nonsense books available, which I will certainly NOT read. Would you care to provide some quotes from all of these books that you have "Supposedly" read, and provide some support for what they "Supposedly" say.
I mean, you do understand that any fool can post a book cover, and say the book says anything they want, even if they have never even read the book.
Oh, BTW, when did we get to the point where youtube videos became authoritative sources?
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posted
^He, he, BTW lioness, I really enjoyed this:
"Quote - Your ramblings as usual are incoherent and foaming at the mouth with emotionalism. You seem like someone who never learned the basic format of writing an essay or engaging in a debate. basically you head is far up your ass without a clue. Even after to doing some rude-imentary wiki research you spout ignorant confused "reasoning", not making clear points but as usual throwing out dumb questions relying on inneudo."
I had no idea that debunking your nonsense about slavery would so upset you. Hmmm, now I can't help but wonder why.
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posted
Mike, what you are not getting is that the Arabs enslaved multi millions of slaves. Whether or not the Arabs were as black as the slaves that came from Africa is a separate topic. As usual you don't realize this. Muhammad freed some slaves and kept others.
Qu'ran:
33:50 - "Prophet, We have made lawful to you the wives to whom you have granted dowries and the slave girls whom God has given you as booty."
There are hundreds of Hadith that deal with slavery. Step aside you have no experience in these matters, no experience in the history of slavery even to the Americas because you don't associate yourself as having African origins. You see yourself as an indigenous Black European. So let not your hang ups interfere with people how have knowledge on this topic. Now are you going to continue to attempt to school everybody on topics you are deficient on or do you want to be squashed again like Wesley Muhammad did you?
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Lioness posted just before I did so I didn't see her post until mine came up. It's just pure luck that I mentioned the Muslim nonsense in my post.
While we are waiting for Lioness, a note to the gullible. As I pointed out above, the nonsense about African Slaves in Babylon (Iraq) does not stand up to common sense logic, btw, where are their descendents now? It would seem to me that Iraqs population would be a lot bigger, and a lot "DARKER" today.
All of this nonsense comes from books written by Arabs and Persians - right?
Well, as I have shown with the "Racist" Islamist Hadiths, those things were NOT written by Arabs or Persians, they were written by TURKS masquerading as Arabs or Persians. You know, the same White and Mulatto people, who today claim to be Berbers, Egyptians, Arabs, Phoenicians, etc. The nonsense they put in books, has always been about supporting their bogus claims of being Berbers, Egyptians, Arabs, Phoenicians, etc. To believe them, is to play the fool for them.
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posted
BTW - Were any Arabs literate? My understanding is that the Prophet Muhammad himself, was illiterate, which was very common in Arabia. Point being, totally, or even just for the most part, Arabs COULDN'T record their own history! Therefore the Turks were free to say anything they damn-well pleased!Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: BTW - Were any Arabs literate? My understanding is that the Prophet Muhammad himself, was illiterate, which was very common in Arabia. Point being, totally, or even just for the most part, Arabs COULDN'T record their own history! Therefore the Turks were free to say anything they damn-well pleased!
This is a typical Mike's stupidity.
Muhammad was illiterate therfore Arabs "COULDN'T" record their history. What's the theory that the Qu'ran was written by Turks? Not one Arab in the whole of Arabia could read? Why do I waste time on this depth of idiocy? Mike, retard, Muhammad was illiterate and the Qu'ran was written by his companions, other Arabs, who were literate and he dictated it to them. Did you do even basic research on the Qu'ran. You are like baby with a hand grenade. standing there still holding it with the pin pulled out
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
Arab slavery was much different than plantation chattel slavery in America. The Arab model was similiar to the African model in that a person could purchase their freedom or work for their freedom. Shariah law provided sanctions and guidelines on how to treat slaves. For instance it was against Islamic law to break up families or treat slaves inhumanely. This does not mean that such abuses existed but to say that contrary to American slavery there were laws that existed to protect slaves. Plus African slaves were assimilated into arab society and their descendants can be seen amongst all walks of life in the Arab world.
The only time Arabs tried plantation based slavery was briefly under the Abbasaid caliph. The plantation system of slavery backfired on the Arabs leading to the Zanj rebellion. Black African slaves were mostly males who were employed as eunuchs, guards, soliders and concubines.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by ausar: Arab slavery was much different than plantation chattel slavery in America. The Arab model was similiar to the African model in that a person could purchase their freedom or work for their freedom. Shariah law provided sanctions and guidelines on how to treat slaves. For instance it was against Islamic law to break up families or treat slaves inhumanely. This does not mean that such abuses existed but to say that contrary to American slavery there were laws that existed to protect slaves. Plus African slaves were assimilated into arab society and their descendants can be seen amongst all walks of life in the Arab world.
The only time Arabs tried plantation based slavery was briefly under the Abbasaid caliph. The plantation system of slavery backfired on the Arabs leading to the Zanj rebellion. Black African slaves were mostly males who were employed as eunuchs, guards, soliders and concubines.
When you say black African slaves were empolyed as eunuchs you realize that these men had their testicles forcibly cut off and that concubines, outnumbering male slaves were women forcibly confined and raped?
Or are all these people just willing employees, 80% of whom died on importation routes?
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Arab slaver was WORSE then any slavery in the West.
Males had there testicles cut, Women were raped and there babies were killed. Why don't you think you don't see an bigger population of Africans in ME countries then in the Americas??
Ausar please verify where you read that arabs were more "humane" Look at Zanzibar rebellion against Oman arabs, Were the Omanis more Humane?
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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Arab slaver was WORSE then any slavery in the West.
Maybe we shouldn't get into who was worse. They both were bad in differnt ways. If I was a man I would rather work on a plantation than have my balls cut off. Let us ask what is purpose of doing that to somebody?
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
I know what eunuchs are. This was a barbaric act. No doubt alot of the concubines probably did get rapped but many were rewarded with wealth and prosperity. You can read the Arabic annals which depict concubines of all nationalities not only gaining their freedom but fame in the Arab world.
Most of the concubines in the Arab world were not black African women but mostly caucasian women whom the Arab males found more desirable. King, the notion that all concubines were raped and their babies killed is not historically accurate. I doubt Arabs would kill the offspring of their concubines if was his own.
The reason why there are not more blacks in the middle east is simply because the fertility rates of black African concubines was very low and the amount of black women taken into concubinage was low. Most black African women were domestic slaves.
Plus the Arab world had a tedency to assimilate their black African slaves into the overall population unlike in the western hemisphere.
King, most of the slavers in the Arab world were actually Afro-Arab mixed individuals like Tibbu Tib. He was one of the most infamous slave catchers and widely known. Plus many Central African and Bantu Africans along the coast openly sold their war captives to Arabs.
To say that Arab slavery was worst than western slavery is conjecture. In some ways it was probably worse but at least slaves in the Arabic world were protected under shariah law. There were no laws to protect slaves from abuse in the western world.
Please understand I am no fan of the Arabs. You can read various posts I have made about the abuses of Arabs over indigenous Africans. I personally donot get the worship of Arabs demonstarted by many of this message board.
King, Oman is hardly a pure Arabic state for most of their inhabitants are Persian, Hindu and even black African or Afro-Arabs. The existence of Swahili culture demonstartes that Arabs and Africans can exist without much racial tension.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Lioness, not every black African male were castarted. This is a little extreme. Most of the black African slaves were females whom were used as concubines or simply as domestics. Black African males were employed often sometimes to guard palaces, caulk ships or dive for pearls in the Persian Gulf.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
The only slaves that were castrated or as you said "Had their balls cut off" were Harem Slaves if I recall correctly, Slaves who oversaw the Harems.
Also contrary to what most believe plantation style slavery existed in the Islamic world. What do you think the Zanj revolt in Basra was about.
and Western Slavery was not fun and games, don't forget transportation of slaves. Slaves would be trown in dungeons and packed like sardines on slave ships. Can you imagine the trauma of slaves shipped from East Africa and Madagascar to the Americas..
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by KING: [QB] ausar
Man Ausar, I agree with Lioness.
Arab slaver was WORSE then any slavery in the West.
Maybe we shouldn't get into who was worse. They both were bad in differnt ways. If I was a man I would rather work on a plantation than have my balls cut off. Let us ask what is purpose of doing that to somebody?
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
Jari, I mentioned the plantation systems of the Zanj. This pratice was an oddity and did not comprise most of the slavery in the Islamic world. After the Zanj revolt Arabs never dared to employ Africans for plantation labor. Anyway, most of the enslaved Africans in the Arab world were female who were primarily employed as domestics or concubines.
Arab and western slavery was wrong. The only thng admirable about Arab slavery was its laws for treatment of slaves and also the assimilation of ex-slaves into society. America did not have these nor did they assimilate their slaves. The only exception is places like Brazil and the Carribean.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Why was the Feritlity rate lower for Black slave women then slave women in the west??
Why does Brazil outside of Nigeria, have the Largest African population in the world?? If assimilation is what happened in Arab countries, why is there no genetic proof of this?
Do you Ausar have an study that states that this is the case?
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
The low fertility rates is mentioned in Benard Lewis book Race and Slavery in the Middle East. More black slaves were imported into the west than into Arabic speaking countries. Also probably because many of the black African women traded or sold were probably not in their prime birthing years. Either way sub-Saharan specific halotypes exist and so do populations of Blacks around the coastal areas in the Arab world. King, there are many black African people in the Gulf region. Many arabs in this region also have African features like tightly curled hair and thick lips and noses. Have you not heard of the black Iraqis or the black populations in the Gulf area?
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by ausar: The only time Arabs tried plantation based slavery was briefly under the Abbasaid caliph. The plantation system of slavery backfired on the Arabs leading to the Zanj rebellion. Black African slaves were mostly males who were employed as eunuchs, guards, soliders and concubines.
ausar - As I said above: this is pure Turkic historical nonsense. How many eunuchs would they need? Soldiers and guards - BULLSH1T. Africans do not, and have NEVER had, a tradition of Slave soldiery.
Whereas, the tradition of White Turkic Slave soldiery is well documented, and the REAL Black Arabs are known to have imported them by the millions. THINK ausar, why would they NEED to import African slaves in numbers?
You might also want to THINK about who it is that is giving you this information. Isn't it the same Turks who also call themselves Arabs, Egyptians, etc. They are YOUR people, believe them if you wish, but some of us know better.
Your comments on African women having low fertility is just too silly, but it does speak to the nonsense you people are taught.
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posted
Mike, I doubt you know enough about Africa in general to say whether Africans had such insitutions as slave soliders. The low fertility rates of black African women is indicated by Arabic sources themselves. As late as the Abbasaid caliph Arabs differentiated themselves from black Africans. Whatever the identity of the modern arabs or whomever is not the topic of the thread. Arabs took black African males as guards and soliders until the Zanj revolt. All this is documented by both western and Arabic sources. If you disagree then I suggest you prove otherwise.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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I gave you a video to watch, I was wondering if you watched it an can comment on it. Also can you refute what was stated? 2 million Africans were enslaved in the 1800's alone 8 million died on the way. Also the man stated that Children were killed by the Arab slave owners. Also he stated that 28 million Africans were enslaved in the Arab slave trade, where are there descendents?
Also
I KNOW about Black Iraqis, matter of fact Aljazeera has an video about Iraqi youth in Hip Hop. Very Uplifting video about Unity, WOmens rights etc. I hope you enjoy the video:
posted
The figure of 28 million seems to high. Were there even 28 million people in the regions of Africa during the time which the Arabic slave trade existed? Have you done any reserch with any first hand sources to come up with these figures? Please read my posts more throughly because I address every point in your arguments.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by ausar: Mike, I doubt you know enough about Africa in general to say whether Africans had such insitutions as slave soliders. The low fertility rates of black African women is indiacted by Arabic sources themselves. As late as the Abbasaid caliph Arabs differentiated themselves from black Africans. Whatever the identity of the modern arabs or whomever is not the topic of the thread. Arabs took black African males as guards and soliders until the Zanj revolt. All this is documented by both western and Arabic sources. If you disagree then I suggest you prove otherwise.
That is FALSE, every western source that I have seen concerning the Zanj, uses a Turkic source as authentication. I know of no eyewitness western sources as to their origin - do you?
You know what I know about Africa? Then tell me which country developed slave soldiery.
I think it is time to clarify what YOU know.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Here is what you know:
Contrary to civilized cultures, the Turkic countries (they call themselves Arabs), do NOT have a tradition of historical research and scholarly investigation.
What they call scholarly work, is really religious/governmental dogma intended to keep the populaces in line. You might also note that they are ALL POLICE states! Ya, real seekers of truth there. As an immediate example of Turkic truth telling, one of them, Hawass the so-called Egyptian, declared that ancient Egyptians were NOT Black - need I say more?
Up until 1921, they were all under the rule of the Turks in Turkey - the Ottoman Empire. Turkey was of course, the most advanced of these Turkic countries - and still is.
So it is illustrative to see what the Turks of Turkey, call scholarship and Truth!
In about 1932, after the breakup of the Ottoman Empire, the Turks figured that if they were to be a stand-alone country, they must have a country history, just like all other countries.
Thus the Ministry of Education in 1932, produced the Turkish Nations creation myth in the form of tomes. These taught Turks that at the dawn of history, their ancestors, led by a mythical gray she-wolf, started migrating outwards from the heart of Central Asia. As the numbers of their people swelled and droughts dried the traditional grazing lands on the steppe, some of them, they are told, even crossed the Bering Strait into the Americas. Presumably becoming the American Indians.
In his later years, Mustafa Kemal Ataturk (the founder of the modern Turkey nation), himself adopted a creed known as the "Sun Theory", which depicts the Turks as the mother race of all mankind, and proposed that all human languages are descendants of one proto-Turkic primal language.
Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, taught that the Turks discovered the America's fifty years before Christopher Columbus. The proof of this assertion, he told journalist, was that the Turks and Caicos Islands in the Caribbean, had obviously been named by Turks, especially since their capital was called Grand Turk. (The islands are in fact named after a fez-shaped cactus).
So as I have said, what these people write is NOT historically accurate work. It is self-serving NONSENSE!
ausar has no choice, it is part of his culture. But as to others, like I said, to believe their nonsense is to play the fool for them.
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posted
I take it you discount Ibn Khaldun and Ibn Turabi. Ibn Khaldun laid the foundation for modern day history and is credited by western historian Toynabee as being as one of the originator of serious historical study. The Zanj are mentioned by all Arabic sources from Ibn Khaldun to actual eye witnesses such as al-Jahiz. When do you suppose this white Turkish conspiracy started to exist?
Lioness, you may want to either consult either Benard Lewis or Ronald Segal who wrote Islam's Black Slaves. Lewis does not mention the fertility rate of black female slaves but does mention that the birth rates amongst African female slaves was low.
I cannot vouch for the accuracy of this website but it does provide a good comparison of the Arab slave trade and European slave trade:
An obvious question, since so many blacks entered the central lands over so long a period, is why they have left so little trace? There is nothing in the Arab, Persian and Turkish lands that resembles the great black and mulatto populations of North and South America. One reason is obviously the high proportion of eunuchs among black males entering the Islamic lands. Another is the high death rate and low birth rate among black slaves in North Africa and the Middle East. In about 1810, Louis Frank observed in Tunisia that most black children died in infancy, and that infinitesimally few reached the age of manhood. A British observer, some thirty years later, found conditions even worse: “The mortality among the slaves in Egypt is frightful,—when the epidemical plague visits the country, they are swept away in immense multitudes, and they are the earliest victims of almost every other domineering disease. I have heard it estimated that five or six years are sufficient to carry off a generation of slaves, at the end of which time the whole has to be replenished.”
—[Lewis Race and Slavery in the Middle East, p. 84]
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by ausar: [qb] The only time Arabs tried plantation based slavery was briefly under the Abbasaid caliph. The plantation system of slavery backfired on the Arabs leading to the Zanj rebellion. Black African slaves were mostly males who were employed as eunuchs, guards, soliders and concubines.
ausar - As I said above: this is pure Turkic historical nonsense. How many eunuchs would they need? Soldiers and guards - BULLSH1T. Africans do not, and have NEVER had, a tradition of Slave soldiery.
Mike what's wrong with you? Ausar was not talking about an African tradition. He was talking about the Abbasaids based in Baghdad
quote:Originally posted by ausar: Mike, I doubt you know enough about Africa in general to say whether Africans had such insitutions as slave soliders.
how true. Mike has read nothing on the subject until today, let alone the Trans Atlantic slave trade
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Whereas, the tradition of White Turkic Slave soldiery is well documented, and the REAL Black Arabs are known to have imported them by the millions.
Bernard Lewis, Race and Slavery in the MIddle East
Slaves sometimes formed part of the tribute required from vassal states beyond the Islamic frontiers. The first such treaty ever made, that of the year 31 of the Hijra (= 652 A.D.), with the black king of Nubia, included an annual levy of slaves to be provided from Nubia. This may indeed have been the reason why Nuhia was for a long time not conquered. The stipulated delivery of some hundreds of male and female slaves, later supplemented by elephants, giraffes, and other wild beasts, continued at least until the twelfth century, when it was disrupted by a series of bitter wars between the Muslim rulers of Egypt and the Christian kings of Nubia. Similar agreements, providing for the delivery of a tribute of slaves, were imposed by the early Arab conquerors on neighboring princes in Iran and Central Asia, but were of briefer duration.
1. Castration. A fair proportion of male slaves were imported as eunuchs and thus precluded from having offspring. Among these were many who otherwise, by the wealth and power which they acquired, might have founded families . 2. Another group of slaves who rose to positions of great power, the military slaves, were normally liberated at some stage in their career, and their offspring were therefore free and not slaves. 3. In general, only the lower orders of slaves -- menial, domestic, and manual workers -- remained in the condition of servitude and transmitted that condition to their descendants. There were not many such descendants -- casual mating was not permitted and marriage was not encouraged. 4. There was a high death toll among all classes of slaves, including great military commanders as well as humble menials. Slaves came mainly from remote places, and, lacking immunities, died in large numbers from endemic as well as epidemic diseases. As late as the nineteenth century, Wes ern travelers in North Africa and Egypt noted the high death rate among imported black slaves.
in the Islamic empire, where, although slavery was maintained, enslavement was banned. The result was an increasingly massive importation of slaves from the outside. Like enslavement, mutilation was forbidden by Islamic law. The great numbers of eunuchs needed to preserve the sanctity of palaces, homes, and some holy places had to be imported from outside or, as often happened, "manufactured" at the frontier. In medieval and Ottoman times the two main sources of eunuchs were Slavs and Ethiopians (Habash, a term which commonly included all the peoples of the Horn of Africa). Eunuchs were also recruited among Greeks (Rum), West Africans (Takrurl, pl. Takarina), Indians, and occasionally West Europeans.
The slave population of the Islamic world was recruited from many lands. In the earliest days, slaves came principally from the newly conquered countries -- from the Fertile Crescent and Egypt, from Iran and North Africa, from Central Asia, India, and Spain.
Central and East European slaves, generally known as Saqaliba (i.e., Slavs), were imported by three main routes: overland via France and Spain, from Eastern Europe via the Crimea, and by sea across the Mediterranean. They were mostly but not exclusively Slavs. Some were captured by Muslim naval raids on European coasts, particularly the Dalmatian. Most were supplied by European, especially Venetian, slave merchants, who delivered cargoes of them to the Muslim markets in Spain and North Africa. The Saqaliba were prominent in Muslim Spain and to a lesser extent in North Africa but played a minor role in the East. With the consolidation of powerful states in Christian Europe, the supply of West European slaves dried up and was maintained only by privateering and coastal raiding from North Africa.
Black slaves were brought into the Islamic world by a number of routes -- from West Africa across the Sahara to Morocco and Tunisia, from Chad across the desert to Libya, from East Africa down the Nile to Egypt, and across the Red Sea and Indian Ocean to Arabia and the Persian Gulf. Turkish slaves from the steppe-lands were marketed in Samarkand and other Muslim Central Asian cities and from there exported to Iran, the Fertile Crescent, and beyond. Caucasians, of increasing importance in the later centuries, were brought from the land bridge between the Black Sea and the Caspian and were marketed mainly in Aleppo and Mosul.
The slave needs of the Ottoman Empire were now met from new sources. One of these was the Caucasians -- the Georgians, Circassians, and related peoples, famous for providing beautiful women and brave and handsome men. The former figured prominently in the harems, the latter in the armies and administrations of the Ottoman and also the Persian states. The supply of these was reduced but not terminated by the Russian conquest of the Caucasus in the early years of the nineteenth century. Another source of supply was the Tatar khanate of the Crimea, whose raiders every year rode far and wide in Central and Eastern Europe, carrying off great numbers of male and female slaves. These were brought to the Crimea and shipped thence to the slave markets in Istanbul and other Turkish cities. This trade came to an end with the Russian annexation of the Crimea in 1783 and the extinction of Tatar independence.
Deprived of most of their sources of white slaves, the Ottomans turned more and more to Africa, which in the course of the nineteenth century came to provide the overwhelming majority of slaves used in Muslim countries from Morocco to Asia. According to a German report published in 1860,
"the black slaves, at that time, were recruited mainly by raiding and kidnapping from Sennaar, Kordofan, Darfur, Nubia, and other places in inner Africa; the white mostly through voluntary sale on the part of their relatives in the independent lands of the Caucasus (Lesghi, Daghestani, and Georgian women, rarely men). Those offered for sale were already previously of servile status or were slave children by birth."
Bernard Lewis, Race and Slavery in the MIddle East
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: THINK ausar, why would they NEED to import African slaves in numbers?
Think Mike you haven't studied the history. Look up the Zanj for instance. They took slaves from various areas. Wake up bimbo
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Ronald Segal, Islam's Black Slaves: The Other Diaspora
"The harem of Abdal Rahman III (912 - 961) in Cordoba contained over 6000 concubines! And the one in the Fatimid Palace in Cairo had twice as many. "
"The Calipha in Baghdad at the beginning of the 10th Century had 7000 black eunuchs and 4000 white eunuchs in his palace."
black slaves were castrated "based on the assumption that the blacks had an ungovernable sexual appetite."
When the Fatimids came to power they slaughtered all the tens of thousands of black military slaves and raised an entirely new slave army. Some of these slaves were conscripted into the army at age ten. From Persia to Egypt to Morocco, slave armies from 30000 to up to 250000 became common-place. Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by ausar: Jari, I mentioned the plantation systems of the Zanj. This pratice was an oddity and did not comprise most of the slavery in the Islamic world. After the Zanj revolt Arabs never dared to employ Africans for plantation labor. Anyway, most of the enslaved Africans in the Arab world were female who were primarily employed as domestics or concubines.
Arab and western slavery was wrong. The only thng admirable about Arab slavery was its laws for treatment of slaves and also the assimilation of ex-slaves into society. America did not have these nor did they assimilate their slaves. The only exception is places like Brazil and the Carribean.
Did not assimilate because blacks are poor The white elite chose veiled racism much more efficient different U.S. blacks in Brazil are the majority. At the end of slavery Brazil imported white: Italians and others to whiten the population. It was their plan. They found that after a while the white population would be. I'm not making that is fact.
Posts: 2922 | From: World Empire of the Black People | Registered: Jul 2011
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*they thought that the population would become white
If you watch television, magazines Brazilians you watch only white people Models! Only white models!
Posts: 2922 | From: World Empire of the Black People | Registered: Jul 2011
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Brazilian racism Public University? Only white people.
Private schools? Only white people
and too
Nazis and other racist groups.
on the Internet they also commit racism also against President Obama
Posts: 2922 | From: World Empire of the Black People | Registered: Jul 2011
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Before I post this, I don't support hatred of any ethnicity. All I care about is the TRUTH. I support the people no matter where they are in the world, and I hope Peace will be something worth fighting for, for ALL PEOPLE.
Read This:
Africas Black-on-Black Slavery-for-Profit Empire:
The Legacy of Arab-Islam in Africa
Andrea Muhrrteyn Compilation of Sources
Islam's Legacy of Racism and Slavery
African and African American's bizarre obsession with the evilness of the 'devil' white man, and their pride and identification with Islam, is rather tragic, and provides perhaps a perspective as to why Ibn Khaldun, an early Muslim thinker, wrote that blacks are the "only humans who are closer to dumb animals than to rational beings."
For their victimized squeel about who has been their alleged evil devil white man oppressor and whom has been their Islamic liberators, is not only irrational, but a tragic farce.
African Americans identification with Islam began in the 1930's when Allah appeared to the people of Detroit in the form of a man preaching a message of racial identity, who claimed that Islam was the true religion of black people in America, before they were robbed of it, by the white man. He was known as “Fard,” and was a small-time con-man, whose real name was Wallace Dodd Ford, recently released from San Quentin for drug-dealing. He arrived in Detroit, at the time when racial identity groups were being formed by both African Americans, around Marcus Garvey.
Although Ford was neither African nor Arab, his Nation of Islam street preaching racial theology soon built quite a following. He taught that Africans were the original and only people of the world (divine and uncorrupted), before whites were invented by an evil scientists in a malicious scientific experiment. Islam was the true religion and at some point, a UFO spaceship will be sent by Allah to eliminate the white people from the earth. This teaching of black racial superiority, and white elimination with UFO help, is still Nation of Islam gospel, as it was under his heir Elijah Muhammad, and current Louis Farrakan. Although Farrakan has brought the Nation of Islam closer to Qur'anic teaching stressing the Five Pillars of Islam.
Both Ford and Elijah fathered several children from illegetimate relationships, and disillusioned followers in the process. One of these was Malcolm X, who was subsequently assassinated by the Nation of Islam.
the Nation of Islam however prides itself that it draws African-Americans to Islam out of racial pride, with its 'progressive' association with African liberation; and to persuade the gullible into rejecting Christianity as the “white man’s religion.”
Now, there is terrible and tragic irony to this Islamic African Liberation romanticism…
While Christian missionaries were in Africa, prior to Islam arrival, shortly after the Crucifixion, with serious interest in missionary hospitals and the poor.
Mohammadan Arabs interest in Black Africa was for one purpose only: SLAVERY
For a century before any evil Devil European purchased an African Slave, the Mohammadan Arabs had laid the foundation of slave procurement and trading, usually through Jihad.
According to, Dr. John Alebeleah Azumah, in his book The Legacy of Arab-Islam in Africa
The success of Mohammed and Islam in deceiving, misinforming, deforming and contorting both history and reality over a period of almost 1400 years has been astounding. That is, until now.
The greatest tragedy about this particular subject is that most of the descendants of African slavery, the black people in the Americas, around the world, as well as among the African blacks, are totally ignorant of the actual facts.
Before we lose the concentration of our listeners, I would like to make the following statement and then prove it.
That the worst and most inhumane and diabolical institution of the black African slave trade was initiated, refined, perpetrated and implemented by the Mohammedan Arabs and later aided and abetted, by the black converts to Mohammadan Islam.
I predict that, as usual, the two subcultures, those of the denial of the facts, and those of political correctness, will attack us without once disproving a single statement and/or conclusion, that we make.
Slavery was not created by the white races, because it has existed throughout human history and has been practiced by every tribe, civilisation and culture, racial group and religion.
In fact, the very word slavery, has its root in the name slav, from the slavic peoples of Europe who were subjugated,by other Europeans. It is not common knowledge that the Arabic wordabd is synonomous with the meaning of slave. For example,Abdullah means literally the slave of Allah. In the language of the Arabs, all black people are called Abeed, plural for slaves.
While much has been written concerned the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade, surprising little attention has been paid to the Islamic Slave Trade across the Sahara, Red Sea and Indian Ocean. While the European involvement in the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade last for just over three centuries; the Arab involvement in the African Slave Trade, has lasted fourteen centuries. And in some parts of the Mohammadan world is still contininuting to this day.
The birth of Mohammad and his Islam and its conquest, brought about the birth of institutionalized, systematized and religiously sanctioned slave tradeon a massive and global scale.
In fact, the Quran allowed the taking of slaves as booty or reward for wars of aggression against any and all unbelievers (kaffirs), most of the human population. This has led to an enormous number of so-called Holy Wars, Jihad in Arabic. There was and is absolutely nothing Holy about these wars, which are primarily to plunder, slaughter, rape and subjugate and rob other human beings of their wealth, produce, freedom and dignity.
Mohammadan Muslim States and Tribes attacked other Non-Muslim groups to achieve these objectives.
Although Islamic Jurisprudence laid down regulations for the treatment of slaves, however incredible and heinous abuses have occurred throughout the history of Mohammadan Islam.
By the Middle Ages, the Arabic word abd was in general used to denote a black slave. While the word manluk (sp?) referred to a white slave.
Ibn Khaldun, 1332 to 1406, the pre-eminent Islamic Medieval Historian and social thinker wrote: "The negro nations are as a rule submissive to slavery, because they have attributes that are quite similar to dumb animals.
It should also be noted that black slaves were castrated based on the assumption that blacks had an ungovernable sexual appetite.
When the Fatimead (sp?) Caliphate came to power in Egypt, the slaughtered all the tens of thousands of black military slaves, and raised an entirely new slave army. Some of these slaves were conscripted into the Army at age 10. From Persia to Egypt to Morrocco, slave armies fro 30,000 to upto 250,000 became common place.
The Islamic Slave Trade took place across the Sahara Dessert, from the coast of the Red Sea, and from East Africa, across the Indian Ocean. The Trans Sahara Trade was conducted along six major slave routes.
Just in the 19th century for which we have more accurate records, 1.2 million slaves were brought across the Sahara Dessert, into the Middle East, as well as for a further 450,000 down the Red Sea and 442,000 from the East African coastal ports. That is a total of two million black slaves just in the 1800's. At least 8 million more were calculated to have died before reaching the Muslim slave markets.
comparison of the Islamic Slave Trade to the American Slave Trade reveals some extremely interesting contrasts. While two out of every three slaves shipped across the Atlantic were men; the proportions were reversed in the Islamic Slave Trade. Two women for every man were enslaved by the Muslims. While the mortality rate of slaves being transported across the Atlantic was as high as 10%, the percentage of slaves dying in transit in the Trans Sahara and East African Slave Trade Market was a staggering 80 to 90%. While almost all the slaves shipped across the Atlantic were for agricultural work; most of the slaves destined for the Muslim Middle East were for sexual exploitation, as concubines, in harreems and for military service. While many children were born to the slaves in the Americas, the millions of their descendants are citizens in Brazil and the United States today; very few of the slaves that ended up in the Muslim Middle East survived. While most slaves who went to the Americas could marry and have families; most of the male slaves destined for the Middle East were castrated, and most of the children born to the women, were killed at birth.
It is estimated that possibly as many as 11 million slaves were transported across the Atlantic; 95% of which went to South and Central America, mainly to Portuguese, French and Spanish possessions. Only 5% of the slaves ended up in what we call the United States today.
However a minimum of 28 million Africans, were enslaved in the Muslim Middle East. Since at least 80% of those captured by Muslim Slave Traders were calculated to have died before reaching the slave markets, it is believed that the death toll from 1400 years of Arabic Slave Trading into Africa could have been as high as 112 million. When added to the number of those sold in the Slave Markets; the total number of African victims of the Trans Sahara and East African Slave Trade could be significantly higher than 114 million people.
What is obscene about this whole subject is the Mohammdan, Muslim and Arab culture of denial, regarding their complicity in the African slave trade; as well as the ignorance of black Muslims, about the reality of their past and present condition.
The statistics that we report about are based on log books based at the African slave ports, ship log books, traveller reports and eye-witness accounts, etc.
Ladies and Gentlemen, the facts and reality of Mohammadan Islams complicity in the African Slave Trade and their inhuman depravity are infinitely more devastating, more staggering and more incomprehensible than all of the nightmare fictions in the world.
In The Legacy of Arab-Islam in Africa, Dr. Azumah provides several examples of Islam's early attitude toward blackness:
The hadith in which an Ethiopian woman laments her racial inferiority to Muhammad, who consoles her by saying, "In Paradise, the whiteness of the Ethiopian will be seen over the stretch of a thousand years."
The Muslim Arab and Persian literature which depicts blacks as "stupid, untruthful, vicious, sexually unbridled, ugly and distorted, excessively merry and easily affected by music and drink."
Nasir al-Din Tusi, the famous Muslim scholar said of blacks: "The ape is more capable of being trained than the Negro."
Ibn Khaldun, an early Muslim thinker, writes that blacks are "only humans who are closer to dumb animals than to rational beings."
Classical Islamic law allows a light-skinned Muslim man to marry a black woman, but a black Muslim man is restricted from marrying a light-skinned woman. As the literature of the time put it, "only a whore prefers blacks; the good woman will welcome death rather than being touched by a black man."
Another hadith quotes Muhammad: "Do not bring black into your pedigree."
While Muhammad owned and sold black slaves, including building the pulpit of his Mosque with slave labour; no Christian critic, has ever accused Jesus of being a slave trader. While the New Testament does acknowledge slavery, the Quran offers detailed guidance in the details of the practice, thus endowing it with divine sanction.
The Qur'an encourages sex with slaves in several places, which explains the 2-1 ratio of female to male slaves taken from Africa by Muhammad's descendents. The Muslims were more interested in the sexual servitude of black women than the Europeans, who exported Africans for labor.
In contrast to the millions of Africans exported to the Middle East, whom died castrated, or childless the 400,000 slaves brought to America over the course of 200 years managed to become the most prosperous group of African people on the planet.
These freed African American slaves quality of life is such that, today they complain, and actually demand financial compensation for not having to live in the conditions experienced by most African countries, where life expectancy can be less than 19, what with disease, abject poverty, starvation and kleptocratic Plantation Slave Masters like Robert Mugabe.
Slavery would most certainly exist today in the same form that it did for more than a thousand years in the Arab world were it not for the Western Christian-based nations “imposing their values on Muslim lands” by putting an end to it. It was not Arabs, nor Africans who forcibly suppressed slavery in Zanzibar, but Europeans.
There is not, and never has been, an abolition movement within Islam.
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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I want to know the *source* that urged you to come to the conclusion that "outside of Nigeria", Brazil "has the largest African population in the world", and according to what data.
-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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^I guess not everyone knows this to be true. It is important that you verify this, because you were using it to make some point about the effects of slavery.
I don't know how anyone can take it for granted that large populous African nations, presumably with the exception of one, of almost nearly indigenous ethnic groups have lower African population density than a non-African nation with a "mixed" population of different recent geographical ancestries.
-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged |
Before I post this, I don't support hatred of any ethnicity. All I care about is the TRUTH. I support the people no matter where they are in the world, and I hope Peace will be something worth fighting for, for ALL PEOPLE.
Read This:
Africas Black-on-Black Slavery-for-Profit Empire:
The Legacy of Arab-Islam in Africa
Andrea Muhrrteyn Compilation of Sources
Islam's Legacy of Racism and Slavery
African and African American's bizarre obsession with the evilness of the 'devil' white man, and their pride and identification with Islam, is rather tragic, and provides perhaps a perspective as to why Ibn Khaldun, an early Muslim thinker, wrote that blacks are the "only humans who are closer to dumb animals than to rational beings."
For their victimized squeel about who has been their alleged evil devil white man oppressor and whom has been their Islamic liberators, is not only irrational, but a tragic farce.
African Americans identification with Islam began in the 1930's when Allah appeared to the people of Detroit in the form of a man preaching a message of racial identity, who claimed that Islam was the true religion of black people in America, before they were robbed of it, by the white man. He was known as “Fard,” and was a small-time con-man, whose real name was Wallace Dodd Ford, recently released from San Quentin for drug-dealing. He arrived in Detroit, at the time when racial identity groups were being formed by both African Americans, around Marcus Garvey.
Although Ford was neither African nor Arab, his Nation of Islam street preaching racial theology soon built quite a following. He taught that Africans were the original and only people of the world (divine and uncorrupted), before whites were invented by an evil scientists in a malicious scientific experiment. Islam was the true religion and at some point, a UFO spaceship will be sent by Allah to eliminate the white people from the earth. This teaching of black racial superiority, and white elimination with UFO help, is still Nation of Islam gospel, as it was under his heir Elijah Muhammad, and current Louis Farrakan. Although Farrakan has brought the Nation of Islam closer to Qur'anic teaching stressing the Five Pillars of Islam.
Both Ford and Elijah fathered several children from illegetimate relationships, and disillusioned followers in the process. One of these was Malcolm X, who was subsequently assassinated by the Nation of Islam.
the Nation of Islam however prides itself that it draws African-Americans to Islam out of racial pride, with its 'progressive' association with African liberation; and to persuade the gullible into rejecting Christianity as the “white man’s religion.”
Now, there is terrible and tragic irony to this Islamic African Liberation romanticism…
While Christian missionaries were in Africa, prior to Islam arrival, shortly after the Crucifixion, with serious interest in missionary hospitals and the poor.
Mohammadan Arabs interest in Black Africa was for one purpose only: SLAVERY
For a century before any evil Devil European purchased an African Slave, the Mohammadan Arabs had laid the foundation of slave procurement and trading, usually through Jihad.
According to, Dr. John Alebeleah Azumah, in his book The Legacy of Arab-Islam in Africa
The success of Mohammed and Islam in deceiving, misinforming, deforming and contorting both history and reality over a period of almost 1400 years has been astounding. That is, until now.
The greatest tragedy about this particular subject is that most of the descendants of African slavery, the black people in the Americas, around the world, as well as among the African blacks, are totally ignorant of the actual facts.
Before we lose the concentration of our listeners, I would like to make the following statement and then prove it.
That the worst and most inhumane and diabolical institution of the black African slave trade was initiated, refined, perpetrated and implemented by the Mohammedan Arabs and later aided and abetted, by the black converts to Mohammadan Islam.
I predict that, as usual, the two subcultures, those of the denial of the facts, and those of political correctness, will attack us without once disproving a single statement and/or conclusion, that we make.
Slavery was not created by the white races, because it has existed throughout human history and has been practiced by every tribe, civilisation and culture, racial group and religion.
In fact, the very word slavery, has its root in the name slav, from the slavic peoples of Europe who were subjugated,by other Europeans. It is not common knowledge that the Arabic wordabd is synonomous with the meaning of slave. For example,Abdullah means literally the slave of Allah. In the language of the Arabs, all black people are called Abeed, plural for slaves.
While much has been written concerned the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade, surprising little attention has been paid to the Islamic Slave Trade across the Sahara, Red Sea and Indian Ocean. While the European involvement in the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade last for just over three centuries; the Arab involvement in the African Slave Trade, has lasted fourteen centuries. And in some parts of the Mohammadan world is still contininuting to this day.
The birth of Mohammad and his Islam and its conquest, brought about the birth of institutionalized, systematized and religiously sanctioned slave tradeon a massive and global scale.
In fact, the Quran allowed the taking of slaves as booty or reward for wars of aggression against any and all unbelievers (kaffirs), most of the human population. This has led to an enormous number of so-called Holy Wars, Jihad in Arabic. There was and is absolutely nothing Holy about these wars, which are primarily to plunder, slaughter, rape and subjugate and rob other human beings of their wealth, produce, freedom and dignity.
Mohammadan Muslim States and Tribes attacked other Non-Muslim groups to achieve these objectives.
Although Islamic Jurisprudence laid down regulations for the treatment of slaves, however incredible and heinous abuses have occurred throughout the history of Mohammadan Islam.
By the Middle Ages, the Arabic word abd was in general used to denote a black slave. While the word manluk (sp?) referred to a white slave.
Ibn Khaldun, 1332 to 1406, the pre-eminent Islamic Medieval Historian and social thinker wrote: "The negro nations are as a rule submissive to slavery, because they have attributes that are quite similar to dumb animals.
It should also be noted that black slaves were castrated based on the assumption that blacks had an ungovernable sexual appetite.
When the Fatimead (sp?) Caliphate came to power in Egypt, the slaughtered all the tens of thousands of black military slaves, and raised an entirely new slave army. Some of these slaves were conscripted into the Army at age 10. From Persia to Egypt to Morrocco, slave armies fro 30,000 to upto 250,000 became common place.
The Islamic Slave Trade took place across the Sahara Dessert, from the coast of the Red Sea, and from East Africa, across the Indian Ocean. The Trans Sahara Trade was conducted along six major slave routes.
Just in the 19th century for which we have more accurate records, 1.2 million slaves were brought across the Sahara Dessert, into the Middle East, as well as for a further 450,000 down the Red Sea and 442,000 from the East African coastal ports. That is a total of two million black slaves just in the 1800's. At least 8 million more were calculated to have died before reaching the Muslim slave markets.
comparison of the Islamic Slave Trade to the American Slave Trade reveals some extremely interesting contrasts. While two out of every three slaves shipped across the Atlantic were men; the proportions were reversed in the Islamic Slave Trade. Two women for every man were enslaved by the Muslims. While the mortality rate of slaves being transported across the Atlantic was as high as 10%, the percentage of slaves dying in transit in the Trans Sahara and East African Slave Trade Market was a staggering 80 to 90%. While almost all the slaves shipped across the Atlantic were for agricultural work; most of the slaves destined for the Muslim Middle East were for sexual exploitation, as concubines, in harreems and for military service. While many children were born to the slaves in the Americas, the millions of their descendants are citizens in Brazil and the United States today; very few of the slaves that ended up in the Muslim Middle East survived. While most slaves who went to the Americas could marry and have families; most of the male slaves destined for the Middle East were castrated, and most of the children born to the women, were killed at birth.
It is estimated that possibly as many as 11 million slaves were transported across the Atlantic; 95% of which went to South and Central America, mainly to Portuguese, French and Spanish possessions. Only 5% of the slaves ended up in what we call the United States today.
However a minimum of 28 million Africans, were enslaved in the Muslim Middle East. Since at least 80% of those captured by Muslim Slave Traders were calculated to have died before reaching the slave markets, it is believed that the death toll from 1400 years of Arabic Slave Trading into Africa could have been as high as 112 million. When added to the number of those sold in the Slave Markets; the total number of African victims of the Trans Sahara and East African Slave Trade could be significantly higher than 114 million people.
What is obscene about this whole subject is the Mohammdan, Muslim and Arab culture of denial, regarding their complicity in the African slave trade; as well as the ignorance of black Muslims, about the reality of their past and present condition.
The statistics that we report about are based on log books based at the African slave ports, ship log books, traveller reports and eye-witness accounts, etc.
Ladies and Gentlemen, the facts and reality of Mohammadan Islams complicity in the African Slave Trade and their inhuman depravity are infinitely more devastating, more staggering and more incomprehensible than all of the nightmare fictions in the world.
In The Legacy of Arab-Islam in Africa, Dr. Azumah provides several examples of Islam's early attitude toward blackness:
The hadith in which an Ethiopian woman laments her racial inferiority to Muhammad, who consoles her by saying, "In Paradise, the whiteness of the Ethiopian will be seen over the stretch of a thousand years."
The Muslim Arab and Persian literature which depicts blacks as "stupid, untruthful, vicious, sexually unbridled, ugly and distorted, excessively merry and easily affected by music and drink."
Nasir al-Din Tusi, the famous Muslim scholar said of blacks: "The ape is more capable of being trained than the Negro."
Ibn Khaldun, an early Muslim thinker, writes that blacks are "only humans who are closer to dumb animals than to rational beings."
Classical Islamic law allows a light-skinned Muslim man to marry a black woman, but a black Muslim man is restricted from marrying a light-skinned woman. As the literature of the time put it, "only a whore prefers blacks; the good woman will welcome death rather than being touched by a black man."
Another hadith quotes Muhammad: "Do not bring black into your pedigree."
While Muhammad owned and sold black slaves, including building the pulpit of his Mosque with slave labour; no Christian critic, has ever accused Jesus of being a slave trader. While the New Testament does acknowledge slavery, the Quran offers detailed guidance in the details of the practice, thus endowing it with divine sanction.
The Qur'an encourages sex with slaves in several places, which explains the 2-1 ratio of female to male slaves taken from Africa by Muhammad's descendents. The Muslims were more interested in the sexual servitude of black women than the Europeans, who exported Africans for labor.
In contrast to the millions of Africans exported to the Middle East, whom died castrated, or childless the 400,000 slaves brought to America over the course of 200 years managed to become the most prosperous group of African people on the planet.
These freed African American slaves quality of life is such that, today they complain, and actually demand financial compensation for not having to live in the conditions experienced by most African countries, where life expectancy can be less than 19, what with disease, abject poverty, starvation and kleptocratic Plantation Slave Masters like Robert Mugabe.
Slavery would most certainly exist today in the same form that it did for more than a thousand years in the Arab world were it not for the Western Christian-based nations “imposing their values on Muslim lands” by putting an end to it. It was not Arabs, nor Africans who forcibly suppressed slavery in Zanzibar, but Europeans.
There is not, and never has been, an abolition movement within Islam.
King funny thing - I didn't really see any Arabs mentioned in your posting. Many of the people writing these hadith were in fact not Arab. There are simply too many citations about the Prophet's near relatives being black and black as tar, being Sulaymis who were notoriously black and being black or Kanaaniyah another notoriously black people even in the West - for someone with sense to take seriously some of these Central Asian writers.lol!
Even it came out to be that many of the so-called black slave poets were pure Arabs that some Persian centuries later tried to make into a Ethiopian slaves due to their color. Its really fascinating history when you get into it.
That is why I have been trying to say that the Arabs have been written out of "Arab" history. I can guarantee you though nobody ever went up to this Kenaaniyya man named Muhamad complaining about their blackness - when all manuscripts around the world from China to Cordoba speak about the original Arabs Kinaaniyah, Quraish, Hashim, Khazraj and Aus, speak of these groups from which came the Prophet being black to extremely black in color .
I think people need to learn to distinguish between the early Arabs or those who Tariq called the true Arabs and later Islamic civilization which was made up of all peoples of the world of many cultures from Central Asia to Cordoba to the Ivory Coast and Gambia.
BTW if the Quran advocates slavery that would be a Muslim thing in which case i wouldn't know much about it. I think they have slavery in the BIble to as I remember.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness: awlaadberry or dana what are your thoughts on Arab slavery? How do you think the Arabs handled their slaves? They seemed to have organized and expanded African slavery. They did it their way. Supposedly over a 1400 year period they killed or castrated a lot of African men and millions died on long import routes. They seemed to prefer female slaves for sex and household duties.
Ottoman's weren't "Arab" LYIN_ss and neither were the TUrks and Persians who controlled the Abbasid dynasties. So your whole question needs modification. If you are talking about the ancient or true Arabs in Arabia and the early Arab world - that slavery was focused mainly on the north and not Africa. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by ausar: I take it you discount Ibn Khaldun and Ibn Turabi. Ibn Khaldun laid the foundation for modern day history and is credited by western historian Toynabee as being as one of the originator of serious historical study. The Zanj are mentioned by all Arabic sources from Ibn Khaldun to actual eye witnesses such as al-Jahiz. When do you suppose this white Turkish conspiracy started to exist?
Lioness, you may want to either consult either Benard Lewis or Ronald Segal who wrote Islam's Black Slaves. Lewis does not mention the fertility rate of black female slaves but does mention that the birth rates amongst African female slaves was low.
I cannot vouch for the accuracy of this website but it does provide a good comparison of the Arab slave trade and European slave trade:
An obvious question, since so many blacks entered the central lands over so long a period, is why they have left so little trace? There is nothing in the Arab, Persian and Turkish lands that resembles the great black and mulatto populations of North and South America. One reason is obviously the high proportion of eunuchs among black males entering the Islamic lands. Another is the high death rate and low birth rate among black slaves in North Africa and the Middle East. In about 1810, Louis Frank observed in Tunisia that most black children died in infancy, and that infinitesimally few reached the age of manhood. A British observer, some thirty years later, found conditions even worse: “The mortality among the slaves in Egypt is frightful,—when the epidemical plague visits the country, they are swept away in immense multitudes, and they are the earliest victims of almost every other domineering disease. I have heard it estimated that five or six years are sufficient to carry off a generation of slaves, at the end of which time the whole has to be replenished.”
—[Lewis Race and Slavery in the Middle East, p. 84]
Lewis also states this in one of his books. raiders “every year rode far and wide in Central and Eastern Europe, carrying off great numbers of male and female slaves. These were brought to the Crimea and shipped thence to the slave markets in Istanbul and other Turkish cities” these of course were exported southward to the cities of the Middle East and North AFrica.
Probably the greatest role of the trade in black Africans begins later. After the annexation of the Crimea when, “Deprived of most of their sources of white slaves, the Ottomans turned more and more to Africa, which in the course of the nineteenth century came to provide the overwhelming majority of slaves used in Muslim countries from Morocco to Asia” (Race and slavery in the Middle East: An historical enquiry. Oxford University Press, 1990, p. 12).
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by ausar: The figure of 28 million seems to high. Were there even 28 million people in the regions of Africa during the time which the Arabic slave trade existed? Have you done any reserch with any first hand sources to come up with these figures? Please read my posts more throughly because I address every point in your arguments.
Ausar - as you can see what people want so desperately to believe is that black Africans have always been the bulk of the slaves in the Islamicized world, when all documented history in fact would tend to show that they weren't. Even Lewis says most of the slave armies were from the Turks and other northern peoples.
And he is not the only one who has said that most slaves of the Islamic world came from the north not from black Africa.
It is just the 19th century when Africans start playing the major role in the Muslim slave trade probably spurred on by the Europeans as Markellion so aptly illustrated. Hence the Middle East thinks the abid have forever been black Africans when Umayyad rulers in Spain referred to Persians, Galicians and the like as the slaves until not long ago.
This number of 28 million is of course ridiculous looking at what the population of North Africa was 2 centuries ago. Where did all of these black people go is right - it must not have been to North AFrica. And Arabia in the early 20th century had no more than several million people! lol! In any case whatever the number was it was a heck of a lot less than what was being brought from the Slavic countries, Caucasus, Circassia etc.
I wonder where Dr. Azuma has data on those numbers.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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Dana, I take your word on Arab slave trade because you are the expert on this thing.
One thing I will state though is that he also stated that 2 million Africans were enslaved in the 1800's. How true it is, I don't really know.
Respect for answering my post with peace and not fuming anger and resentment. We are all hear to learn.
Peace
No - I am actually not an expert on an Arab slave trade, King. But I think your confusing, like Dr. Azuma, what happened under the Ottomans and Turkish ruled Arabia with some trade by a certain supposed group of "Arab" peoples which in reality wasn't in existence at that time except for among Sudanese and Chadic Arabs and Muslims. Partially Arab peoples including Hassaniyya and Trarza in the Maghreb where Turkish and European women and slave soldiers were also being imported in large numbers, and where many dark-skinned Arabs were already mixed with other African Muslims and white Andalusian Muslims, also contributed to the trade.
Then of course in East Africa the "Arabs" were already intermingled with Shirazi Persians and under under Persian influence to some extent.
Unfortunately Dr. Azuma appears to be biased and if he used the word Arab he probably shouldn't have. Islamic would have been a better word. Markellion would probably know more about it than I though.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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^Children believe that if they see it on T.V. it is real. Big children think that if someone wrote it in a book, it must be true - Sad!
Ausar quote: I take it you discount Ibn Khaldun and Ibn Turabi. Ibn Khaldun laid the foundation for modern day history and is credited by western historian Toynabee as being as one of the originator of serious historical study. The Zanj are mentioned by all Arabic sources from Ibn Khaldun to actual eye witnesses such as al-Jahiz. When do you suppose this white Turkish conspiracy started to exist?
Ibn Khaldūn (1332-1406 AD) was an Arab historiographer and historian born in North Africa in present-day Tunisia and is sometimes viewed as one of the forerunners of modern historiography.
He is best known for his Muqaddimah (known as Prolegomenon in English), which was discovered, evaluated and fully appreciated first by 19th century European scholarship, although it has also had considerable influence on 17th-century Ottoman historians like Ḥajjī Khalīfa and Mustafa Naima who relied on his theories to analyze the growth and decline of the Ottoman empire. Later in the 19th century, Western scholars recognized him as one of the greatest philosophers to come out of the Arab world.
In his autobiography, Ibn Khaldun traces his descent back to the time of Muhammad through an Arab tribe from Yemen, specifically Hadhramaut, which came to Spain in the eighth century at the beginning of the Islamic conquest. In his own words: "And our ancestry is from Hadhramaut, from the Arabs of Yemen, via Wa'il ibn Hajar, from the best of the Arabs, well-known and respected." (p. 2429, Al-Waraq's edition). However, the biographer Mohammad Enan questions his claim, suggesting that his family may have been Muladis who pretended to be of Arab origin in order to gain social status. Enan also mentions a well documented past tradition, concerning certain Berber groups, whereby they delusively "aggrandize" themselves with some Arab ancestry. The motive of such an invention was always the desire for political and societal ascendancy. Some speculate this of the Khaldun family; they elaborate that Ibn Khaldun himself was the product of the same Berber ancestry as the native majority of his birthplace.
Ausar - The Zanj Rebellion took place in 893 A.D. Over 400 years before Ibn Khaldun was born - how would he know?
Instead of defending the nonsense that the people of your culture write, you really should be trying to correct it!Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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Ausar - To help in your edification, and to wean you off of the nonsense that the people of your culture write. I offer the following articles, though they surely have errors, at least they are an honest attempt at scholarly history.
Zanj
Zanj "Land of the Blacks") was a name used by medieval Arab geographers to refer to both a certain portion of the coast of East Africa and its inhabitants. It is the origin of the name "Zanzibar". Geographers divided the coast of East Africa at large into several regions based on each region's respective inhabitants. In northern Somalia was Barbara (around modern-day Berbera), which was the land of the Eastern Baribah or Barbaroi (Berbers), as Somalis were referred to by medieval Arab and ancient Greek geographers, respectively (see Periplus of the Erythraean Sea). In modern-day Ethiopia was al-Habash or Abyssinia, which was inhabited by the Habash or Abyssinians, who were the forbears of the Habesha.
Beyond the Abyssinian highlands and the Berber coast lay to the south Zanj (also transliterated as Zenj or Zinj), a land inhabited by Bantu-speaking peoples called the Zanj, which stretched from the area far south of present-day Mogadishu, to Pemba Island in Tanzania. South of Zanj lay the Land of Sofala in Mozambique, the northern limit of which may have been Pangani, opposite Pemba Island. And beyond Sofala was the obscure realm of Waq-Waq, also in Mozambique. The tenth century Arab historian and geographer Abu al-Hasan 'Alī al-Mas'ūdī describes Sofala as the furthest limit of the Zanj settlement and mentions its king's title as Mfalme (a Bantu word).
Arab writers used the term Zanj to refer to "Bantu-speaking Negroes" on the coast of East Africa and south of Barbara and Abyssinia. The Zanj traded extensively with Arabs, Persians and Indians, but according to some sources only locally since they possessed no ocean-going ships. According to other sources the heavily-Bantu Swahili peoples already had seafaring vessels with sailors and merchants trading with Arabia and Persia and as far east as India and China. Through this trade, some Arabs intermarried with local Bantu women, which eventually gave rise to the Swahili culture and language -- both Bantu in origin but significantly influenced by foreign elements (e.g. clothing, loan words, etc.).
Prominent settlements of the Zanj coast included Shungwaya (Bur Gao), as well as Malindi, Gedi, and Mombasa. By the late medieval period, the area included at least 37 substantial Swahili trading towns, many of them quite wealthy. However, these communities never consolidated into a single political entity (the "Zanj Empire" being a late nineteenth century fiction).
The urban ruling and commercial classes of these Swahili settlements was occupied by Arab and Persian immigrants. The Bantu peoples inhabited the coastal regions, and were organized only as family groups. The term 'shenzi' used on the East African coast and derived from Swahili 'zanji' referred in a derogatory way to anything associated with rural blacks. An example of this would be the colonial term a 'shenzi' dog, referring to a native dog.
The Zanj were for centuries shipped as slaves by Arab traders to all the countries bordering the Indian Ocean. The Umayyad and Abbasid caliphs recruited many Zanj slaves as soldiers and, as early as 696 AD, we learn of slave revolts of the Zanj against their Arab masters in Iraq (see Zanj Rebellion). Ancient Chinese texts also mention ambassadors from Java presenting the Chinese emperor with two Seng Chi (Zanji) slaves as gifts, and Seng Chi slaves reaching China from the Hindu kingdom of Sri Vijaya in Java.
The term "Zanj" apparently fell out of use in the tenth century. However, after 1861, when the area controlled by the Arab Sultan of Zanzibar was forced by the British to split with the parent country of Oman, it was often referred to as Zanj. The sea off the south-eastern coast of Africa was known as the "Sea of Zanj" and included the Mascarene islands and Madagascar. During the anti-apartheid struggle it was proposed that South Africa should assume the name 'Azania' to reflect ancient Zanj.
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This is a little off-topic, but it demonstrates how Turkic people and their culture, routinely manipulates what they call "TRUTH" to serve their purposes.
Article Arabs:
Tribes of Arabia refers to Arab clans hailing from the Arabian Peninsula.
Much of the lineage provided before Ma'ad relies on biblical genealogy and therefore questions persist concerning the accuracy of this segment of Arab genealogy. The general consensus among 14th century Arabic genealogists is that Arabs are of three kinds:
Perishing Arabs: These are the ancients of whose history little is known. They include ‘Aad, Thamud, Tasm, Jadis, Imlaq and others. Jadis and Tasm perished because of genocide. 'Aad and Thamud perished because of their decadence, as recorded in the Qur'an. Archaeologists have recently uncovered inscriptions that contain references to 'Iram, which was a major city of the 'Aad. Imlaq is the singular form of 'Amaleeq and is probably synonymous to the biblical Amalek.
Pure Arabs: They are from Yemen, originated from the progeny of Ya‘rub bin Yashjub bin Qahtan so were also called Qahtanian Arabs.
Arabized Arabs: They originated from the progeny of Ishmael the first born son of the patriarch Abraham and the Jurhum tribe, also called ‘Adnani Arabs. Prophet Muhammad is an 'Adnani Arab.
The terms Qahtanite and Qahtani (Arabic: قحطان; transliterated: Qahtan or Qaḥṭān or Kahtan) refer to Semitic peoples either originating in, or claiming genealogical descent from the southern extent of the Arabian Peninsula, especially from Yemen.
The rival group to the Qahtan are variously known as Adnan, Ma'add or Nizar.
The Qahtani people are divided into the two sub-groups of Himyar and Kahlan, with the Himyar branch as Himyarites and the Kahlan branch as Kahlanis.
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