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the lioness,
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Al-Jahiz (in Arabic الجاحظ) (real name Abu Uthman Amr ibn Bahr al-Kinani al-Fuqaimi al-Basri) (born in Basra, c. 781 – December 868 or January 869) was a famous Arab scholar, believed to have been an Afro-Arab of East African descent, the grandson of a black slave [Historical dictionary of Iraq, Edmund Ghareeb 2004]
He was an Arabic prose writer and author of more than 300 works on Arabic literature, biology, zoology, history, early Islamic philosophy, Islamic psychology, Mu'tazili theology, and politico-religious polemics.

__________________________________________________________

WHO IS BLACK, WHO IS WHITE ACCORDING TO AL-JAHIZ?

excerpts below from:
Al-Jahiz (776-869): Al-Fakhar al-Sudan
min al-Abyadh (Superiority Of The Blacks To The Whites)


_________________________BLACKS______________________________________

"the blacks include the Zanj, Ethiopians, the people of Fazzan, the Berbers, the
Copts, and Nubians, the people of Zaghawa, Marw, Sind and India, Qamar and Dabila, China,
and Masin... the islands in the seas between China and Africa are full of blacks, such as
Ceylon, Kalah, Amal, Zabij, and their islands, as far as India, China, Kabul, and those
shores....

there are black tribes among the Arabs, such as the Banu Sulaim bin Mansur, and that all the peoples settled in the Harra, besides the Banu Sulaim are black....
This Harra is such that the gazelles, ostriches, insects, wolves, foxes, sheep, asses, horses and birds that live there are all black....
the Banu Sulaim has much in common with the land of the Turks, where the camels, beasts of burden, and everything belonging to these people is similar in appearance: everything of theirs has a Turkish look.

.....the carriers of black (Abbasid) "




[Abbasid - third Issamic Caliphate, capital Bagdad (750-1513)
army- Turkish Mamluks]


______________________________ WHITES_________________________


" The whites at most consist of the people of Persia, Jibal,
and Khurasan, the Greeks, Slavs, Franks, and Avars, and some few others, not very
numerous.....

....the carriers of white (Umayyad), "


[Umayyad-750 the second Arab Caliphate]


_______________________________________________________________


.

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Brada-Anansi
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Why a separate thread on basically the same subject matter don't you think it promotes repetitiveness??
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JujuMan
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Dj?

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
Why a separate thread on basically the same subject matter don't you think it promotes repetitiveness??

have faith, I have placed more focus, There were already three threads on Nubian skin color, no problem,
lioness will provide

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JujuMan
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Better to avoid a problem than to solve a problem. I'm taking notes.

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Mike111
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^You boys are slow, but fear not, I know most of Whiteys tricks.


We cannot judge the veracity of Mr. Derideaux, or the many sources that he quotes, because there are no translations of these works by Black translators, to compare them to. And as we have seen in Hammurabi's code of laws as Translated by L. W. King - Letters and Inscriptions of Hammurabi (1898). Where the degenerate racist King, inserted the word White to describe Hammurabi: Whites simply cannot be trusted to tell the truth. Robert Francis Harper - The Code of Hammurabi King of Babylon (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1904). Later corrected Kings work, and he was White, but how are we to know which Whites to trust?

But Al-Bukhari was NOT a Persian, he was a Tajik: Tajiks descended from ancient peoples of Central Asia, such as the Soghdians and the Bactrians (Turks). His people were simply vassals of the Persian Empire, and unscrupulas Whites use that relationship to falsely claim that he was a Persian.


Here again, al-Tabari was NOT a Persian. The place of his birth was Parthian territory, they also were simply vassals of the Persian Empire.



Fars Province, Fars or Pars is the original homeland of the Persian people.

Farsi is the local name of the language in Iran, and is sometimes used in English when referring to the language there


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IronLion
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WHO IS BLACK, WHO IS WHITE ACCORDING TO AL-JAHIZ?

excerpts below from:
Al-Jahiz (776-869): Al-Fakhar al-Sudan
min al-Abyadh (Superiority Of The Blacks To The Whites)


_________________________BLACKS______________________________________

"the blacks include the Zanj, Ethiopians, the people of Fazzan, the Berbers, the
Copts, and Nubians, the people of Zaghawa, Marw, Sind and India, Qamar and Dabila, China,
and Masin... the islands in the seas between China and Africa are full of blacks, such as
Ceylon, Kalah, Amal, Zabij, and their islands, as far as India, China, Kabul, and those
shores....

there are black tribes among the Arabs, such as the Banu Sulaim bin Mansur, and that all the peoples settled in the Harra, besides the Banu Sulaim are black....


This Harra is such that the gazelles, ostriches, insects, wolves, foxes, sheep, asses, horses and birds that live there are all black....
the Banu Sulaim has much in common with the land of the Turks, where the camels, beasts of burden, and everything belonging to these people is similar in appearance: everything of theirs has a Turkish look.

.....the carriers of black (Abbasid) "

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JujuMan
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Look you arseholes get one more sssssssssssssss from me and that's that [Big Grin]

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Mike111
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^So which one is the Arab, Black or White, can't be both. But yet in these bullsh1t Muslim texts, they are indeed BOTH!

THAT'S WHY I SAY:

We cannot judge the veracity of Mr. Derideaux, or the many sources that he quotes, because there are no translations of these works by Black translators, to compare them to.


Al-Jahiz:

The Zanj live of fish, and for this reason sharpen their teeth like needles, so that the fish should not stick to them.

He also states that blacks are ugly and misshapen, because they live in a hot country. The heat overcooks them in the womb and curls their hair.

The Sages say: The Negroes (zanj) are the most inferior of creatures and those with the worst constitution; for their country is hot, and therefore the wombs burn them. The same applies to people living in cold regions….

They (further) say; The sun has scorched their (the Negroes) hair and thus made it crisp. Any hair you bring near a fire will (first) become curled, and if you continue (holding it there) it will become crisp (contracted) and afterwards be consumed by the fire.

Al-Jahiz (in Arabic الجاحظ) (real name Abu Uthman Amr ibn Bahr al-Kinani al-Fuqaimi al-Basri) (born in Basra, c. 781 – December 868 or January 869) was a famous Arab scholar, believed to have been an Afro-Arab of East African descent, the grandson of a black slave [Historical dictionary of Iraq, Edmund Ghareeb 2004]

^REALLY???
Damn you Albinos lie, and Damn the Negro so foolish as to believe you!


BTW lioness, you degenerate Albino fool, Fars and Arabia sit side-to-side, it gets pretty HOT there.

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xyyman
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^ man you are good at exposing these fugckers when they lie. . .which is all the time.

I need your skills bro. It takes me a lot longer time to catch their lies.

I think what I should do is, ALWAYS, assume it is a lie until proven otherwise.

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JujuMan
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[Roll Eyes]
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Mike111
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^Regarding Whites: That is the safe thing to do.
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JujuMan
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Hey I'm not exactly in a position to judge liars. I firmly believe that some lies are necessary.

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IronLion
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quote:
Al-Jahiz (in Arabic الجاحظ) (real name Abu Uthman Amr ibn Bahr al-Kinani al-Fuqaimi al-Basri) (born in Basra, c. 781 – December 868 or January 869) was a famous Arab scholar, believed to have been an Afro-Arab of East African descent, the grandson of a black slave [Historical dictionary of Iraq, Edmund Ghareeb 2004]

The above is another Albinoid lie. Al Jazir was from the Kinani tribe of Basra.

You know a real Arab by his name, which often tells you his father's pedigree.

He was al Kinani, not an East African slave descendant.

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IronLion
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quote:
The Sages say: The Negroes (zanj) are the most inferior of creatures and those with the worst constitution; for their country is hot, and therefore the wombs burn them. The same applies to people living in cold regions….

The Zanj is a word which refers to a particular tribe of East African coast.

On the coast of East Africa, one had the Samaali, the Swahili, the Zanji, the Eriterians, and the Mocambiquans. They were all Negores according to the definition today.

Al Jahiz himself a black man, from Basra referenced a quote about the inferiority of Zanjs.

Not very different from the way Mike111 goes about about "the bush negros" of West Africa and the white punnany loving black Arabs.

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Mike111
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Lion - You REALLY think a Black man wrote this. If so, please see my comments to awlaadberry on the other thread.

He also states that blacks are ugly and misshapen, because they live in a hot country. The heat overcooks them in the womb and curls their hair.

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Mike111
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quote:
Originally posted by xyyman:
^ man you are good at exposing these fugckers when they lie. . .which is all the time.

I need your skills bro. It takes me a lot longer time to catch their lies.

I think what I should do is, ALWAYS, assume it is a lie until proven otherwise.

xyyman - For many years, I have tried to get people to understand that Whites/Albinos are LIARS and DELUSIONAL! (They "NEED" to believe that everyone in history was White).

They can't help it, that is their NATURE!

The great theorist MK, suggests that this is a congenital defect due to a lack of Melanin. Having no better theory to go on, we must accept that as the reason.

Point being, as you can see from this, below: and the Muslim texts, they have ALWAYS been so.


 -


 -


SOME "REAL" AZTEC'S!


 -

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IronLion
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:
Lion - You REALLY think a Black man wrote this. If so, please see my comments to awlaadberry on the other thread.

He also states that blacks are ugly and misshapen, because they live in a hot country. The heat overcooks them in the womb and curls their hair.

Hmm, Mike, did you read that from Al Jahiz's original quotations or from an interpretation from a secondary source.. most likely an Albino translator?

Can you post that quote in context?

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by IronLion:
quote:
The Sages say: The Negroes (zanj) are the most inferior of creatures and those with the worst constitution; for their country is hot, and therefore the wombs burn them. The same applies to people living in cold regions….

The Zanj is a word which refers to a particular tribe of East African coast.

On the coast of East Africa, one had the Samaali, the Swahili, the Zanji, the Eriterians, and the Mocambiquans. They were all Negores according to the definition today.

Al Jahiz himself a black man, from Basra referenced a quote about the inferiority of Zanjs.

Not very different from the way Mike111 goes about about "the bush negros" of West Africa and the white punnany loving black Arabs.

thoughtful comment. Mike has issues.
Pieter Derideaux is not the translator of this text mearly someone who quoted it on a no longer existing geocities site.
Mike uses quotes all over his site from white historians as evidence of this and that, total hypocrisy now he's trying to invoke that same history as suspect. We are not even dealing with a white source. We are dealing with Al Jahiz, as you said a black man. Mike's on the ropes now in desperation mode posting spam on Aztecs.

Let's forget about Mike and get back to the text, copy here:

http://www.assatashakur.org/forum/they-all-look-like-all-them/29471-al-jahiz-776-869-superiority-blacks-whites.html

: Superiority Of The Blacks To The Whites
Al-Jahiz (776-869)


excerpts below in italics

>>>>Could the title be any more clear in point of view? There are many facinating things about this document.
Racist attitudes haven't changed much in over a thousand years.
The author, Al Jahiz an Afro-Arab of East African descent.
On the Zanj black Bantu-speaking peoples called the Zanj,an Arabic term meaning "land of the blacks" derived form whicof which the word "Zanibar" is derived was an area stretching from south of present-day Mogadishu, to Pemba Island in Tanzania.
On blacks some of his comments:
_____________________________________________________________
Everybody knows that the Zanj are among the most generous of mortals ; a quality that is found only among noble character....

They are courageous, energetic,
and generous, which are the virtues of nobility, and also good-tempered and with little
propensity to evil.....

The Zanj say to the Arabs: You are so
ignorant that during the jahiliyya (the times of ignorance ) you regarded us as your
equals when it came to marrying Arab women, but with the advent of the justice of Islam
you decided this practice was bad. Yet the desert is full of Zanj married to Arab wives,
and they have been princes and kings and have safeguarded your rights and sheltered you
against your enemies.....

The Arabs draw glory from the black color...


The ten sons of Abd el Mottalib the grandfather of Mohammed were all black and strong.
The Amir ibn al Tufayl said that the Kaba was well guarded when he saw them on black
camels going around the Kaba. Ibn Abbas was black and very tall. Those of Abu Talib's
family , who are the most noble of men, are more or less black....

The Zanj are the most eager of all God’s creatures for their women, and so also their
women for them. They are also better compared to other women.


________________________________________________________

>>>>On skin color Al Hajiz speaks from the perspective of being of black African descent:

________________________________________________________

The Zanj say: The Prophet (p.b.u.h.) said: I was send to the red and the black. And
everybody knows that the Zanj, Abyssinians and Nubians or surely not white or red but
definitely black.
We know that Allah, the Most Powerful and Exalted, sent His Prophet (to the people), all
of them: Arabs and non-Arabs (ajam) alike. And if he (Muhammad) said: I was sent to the
ruddy (Al-ahmar) and the dark-skinned (al-aswad), then in his view we are neither ruddy
nor light-skinned (bid); so he was sent to us. Indeed, his use of the dark-skinned refers
to us, as the people (of our community) are in one of these categories (i.e. either ruddy
or dark-skinned). Therefore, if the Arabs are ruddy, then they belong to the Byzantines
(Rum), Slaves (Saqaliba), Persians and Khurasanis. But if they belong to the dark-skinned
peoples, then they are a sub-category of our stock. So they are called
medium-complexioned and brownish-black (sumr sud) when they are classified with us, as
the Arabs use the masculine gender to refer to a group consisting of females and males
and if the Prophet – may Allah be pleased with him – knew that the Zanj, Ethiopians and
Nubians were not ruddy or light-skinned, rather dark-skinned, and that Allah Most High
sent him to the dark-skinned and the ruddy, then surely he made us and the Arabs equals.
Hence, we are the only dark-skinned people. If the appellation dark-skinned applies to
us, then we are the pure Sudan, and the Arabs only resemble us. Therefore we are the
first people to whom he was missioned. Thus the appellation of the Arabs is predicated on
ours, since we alone are designated dark-skinned, and they are not so designated unless
they are part of us. The Zanj also say: The Arabs think that the more people the better
but we are the most numerous on this world, and have the most children. You can say there
are two kinds of people among us (among the Zanj) the ants and the dogs. Trying to
measure the amount of Arabs with the amount of ants you will see the ants are more
numerous.
Well then still add the dogs to that amount. You really have to add on the
people of Abyssinia, Nubia, Fazzan, Marawa, Zaghawa and all the other black tribes.
Qahtan is far from Adman. We are closer kin to the Abyssinians and our mothers are closer
kin then those of Adnan are to Qahtan.....

They say: You have never seen the
genuine Zanj. You have only seen captives who came from the coasts and forests and
valleys of Qanbuluh, from our menials, our lower orders, and our slaves.


________________________________________________________

>>>>>On concubines:

They say; If white men look on black women without
desire, so too do black men look on white women without desire, for passions are habits
and mostly convention. Thus, for the people of Basra, the most desirable women are
Indians, the daughters of Indian women and Ghuris; for the Yemenis the most desirable
women are Ethiopians and the daughters of Ethiopian women; for the Syrians the most
desirable women are Greeks and the daughters of Greek women. Each people has a taste for
the women whom they import as slaves and captives, apart from the exceptions, and no
inferences can be drawn from exceptions.


______________________________________________________

>>>>> Some of the revelations of Al Jahiz on who is black and who is white were interesting:

_______________________________________________________

They say : The blacks are
more numerous than the whites. The whites at most consist of the people of Persia, Jibal,
and Khurasan, the Greeks, Slavs, Franks, and Avars, and some few others, not very
numerous;


>>>>>He indicates Persians as white. That puts to rest these other recent threads.

Reminicent of much dialog in this forum he says:

____________________________________________________

say; The Arabs
belong with us and not with the whites, because their color is nearer to ours. The
Indians are more bronzed than the Arabs, and they belong to the blacks. For the Prophet,
God bless and save him, said; I was sent to the red and the black, and everyone knows
that the Arabs are not red, as we already have stated above. He said; This advantage
belongs to us and to the Arabs, as against the whites, if the Arabs want it.


__________________________________________

^^^^ Here we see the concept of "closer to" Things haven't changed people here in this forum are always at tug of war, which people are "closer to" black, which people are "closer to white"

On red hair, he says:

__________________________________________________________

To those who despise the color black, we would reply that the excessive lanky, thin, and
reddish hair of the Franks, Greeks, and Slavs, the redness of their locks and beards,
the whiteness of their eyelashes, are uglier and more loathsome. There are no albinos
among blacks, but only among you.


______________________________________________________________


LOL ^^^ here we have mention of albinos, an incorrect statement that there are no albinos in the land of the blacks.

Later in the same paragraph Al Jahiz predicts what would later become known as evolutionary adaptation to environment:

___________________________________________________________

Zanj also say : We also have philosophers from
among us as well as theologians and we have fine manners. God may he be exalted , did not
make them black in order to disfigure them; rather it is their environment that made them
so.


_____________________________________________________

>>>>>An interetsing item here in the conclusion of the same long paragraph:

___________________________________________________

The best evidence of this is that there are black tribes among the Arabs, such as the
Banu Sulaim bin Mansur, and that all the peoples settled in the Harra, besides the Banu
Sulaim are black. These tribes take slaves from among the Ashban to mend their flocks and
for irrigation work, manual labor, and domestic service, and they take their wives from
among the Byzantines; and yet it takes less than three generations for the Harra region
to give them all the complexion of the Banu Sulaim. This region is such that the
gazelles, ostriches, insects, wolves, foxes, sheep, asses, horses and birds that live
there are all black. White and black are the results of environment, the natural
properties of water and soil, distance from the sun, and intensity of heat. There is no
question of metamorphosis, or of punishment, disfigurement or favor meted out by Allah.
Besides, the land of the Banu Sulaim has much in common with the land of the Turks, where
the camels, beasts of burden, and everything belonging to these people is similar in
appearance: everything of theirs has a Turkish look. The soldiers of the frontier
garrisons on this side of the Awsim sometimes come across Byzantine sheep mixed up with
sheep belonging to the local inhabitants, but they have no difficulty in distinguishing
the Byzantine flocks from the Syrian by their Byzantinity. When one comes across the
descendents of Bedouin men and women who have ended up in Kurasan it is immediately
apparent that they are the barbarians of these parts.


_____________________________________________________________

^^^^ So here we have the Banu Sulaym an Arab tribe that had lived in Saudi Arabia during the rise of Islam. They are described as black. They are also compared to Turks here who are said by Al Jahiz, here in the 9th century who he says are black.
There are many Turks today who have brown skin. In the period of which Al Jahiz wrote this, far prior to the Ottoman the Turks of 500 years later, the Turks were probably even browner.
This to the extent he refers to them as blacks. And at this point in time darker than most Persians, who he considered "white".


. Put that in your pipe and smoke it

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Mike111
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^My mistake, that was - Ibn Qutayba (880) : Kitab al-ma'arif
(The book of knowledge) worked in Baghdad

Here is some Jahiz:



From Jahiz's Kitab al-Hayawan (book on animals)
taken from; Kitab al-Hayawan; the translation (of extracts) Serjeant : Society and trade in South Arabia Gahiz : Ambrosian fragments

Allah has made the Zanj black and misshapen so all will know they are cursed. For it is written: Like the crow among mankind are the Zanj for they are the worst of men and the most vicious of creatures in character and temperament.


If it (the pigeon) is black, then this can be brought back to too high temperatures in the ovaries when it was conceived and the limits of maturity have been passed. (in the egg). The same happens with the Zindj among the humans, because the body of the mother lives in bigger heat than normal they become dark and their hair shrinks and curls together

Tell me, when were the people one tribe, and when they spoke only one language? After how many generations did the Zangi became black and the Slave white? Why did the color change faster then the body?

The Zang or like the raven under the people. They are the worst of the people. The worst creatures (halq) in the way they are build (tarkib), and character (mizag). When the pigeons become black then that is a burning and going over maturity. The black pigeons under the people are the Zang. The sun has burnt their hair; so that it contracts. When you put a hair in the fire; it curls, as you go closer, it curls more, till the fire finishes it.

Just like the intelligence of the Black people and the Red (white-people) people is smaller then the intelligence of the Braun ones, as well is with the godly guiding (instinct) of the black pigeons which is less then of the dark ones.


This defect is clearly visible because it falls within the lips; and as the lips of the black hang towards the outside and are hanging down, the lack from teeth is more visible.

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the lioness,
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^^^^ This is Jahiz prior to his awakening on blackness.

Regardless of his changing opinon on what to think of people like Perisans and Turks, in the preiod he lived, 8-9th century CE he observed the Persians as being "white" and Turks being "black" (and himself).

His evolving opinion of the character of whites and blacks is a different matter.

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Mike111
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^Lioness, no one wants to be bothered with your stupidness, get lost.
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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:
^Lioness, no one wants to be bothered with your stupidness, get lost.

this from a guy who picture spams Aztecs on a thread about Arabs and Africans. That's the stupidness people don't want to be bothered with.
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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness:

Al Jahiz :


"there are black tribes among the Arabs, such as the Banu Sulaim bin Mansur, and that all the peoples settled in the Harra, besides the Banu Sulaim are black....
This Harra is such that the gazelles, ostriches, insects, wolves, foxes, sheep, asses, horses and birds that live there are all black....
the Banu Sulaim has much in common with the land of the Turks, where the camels, beasts of burden, and everything belonging to these people is similar in appearance: everything of theirs has a Turkish look.

.....the carriers of black (Abbasid) "




[Abbasid - third Issamic Caliphate, capital Bagdad (750-1513)
army- Turkish Mamluks]


______________________________

WHITES_________________________


" The whites at most consist of the people of Persia, Jibal,
and Khurasan, the Greeks, Slavs, Franks, and Avars, and some few others, not very
numerous.....

....the carriers of white (Umayyad), "


[Umayyad-750 the second Arab Caliphate]



Correction I've seen another reference to this " the carriers of black (Abbasid) " and "the carriers of white (Umayyad)" and it's not racial


https://books.google.com/books?id=HCKEjusDE6MC&pg=PA24&lpg=PA24

Armies of the Muslim Conquest

^^ the carriers of black and white is referring to flag colors, nothing to do with skin


The Umayyad Caliphate 661-750 was the second of the four major Islamic caliphates established after the death of Muhammad.
The were the caliphate responsible for the conquest of Spain
This caliphate was centered on the Umayyad dynasty hailing from Mecca. The Umayyad family had first come to power under the third caliph, Uthman ibn Affan (r. 644–656), but the Umayyad regime was founded by Muawiya ibn Abi Sufyan, long-time governor of Syria, after the end of the First Muslim Civil War in 661 CE/41 AH. Syria remained the Umayyads' main power base thereafter, and Damascus was their capital.
Syria would remain the base of Umayyad power until the end of the dynasty in 750. However, this Dynasty became reborn in Cordoba (Al Andalus, today's Portugal and Spain) in the form of an Emirate and then a Caliphate, lasting until 1031 AD. Muslim rule continued in Iberia for another 500 years in several forms: Taifas, Berber kingdoms, and under the Kingdom of Granada until the 16th century.
The conquest of Hispania by the Umayyad was manned by muslim forces in North Africa.
The conquering army was made up mainly of Berbers who had themselves only recently come under Muslim influence. It is probable that this army represented a continuation of a historic pattern of large-scale raids into Iberia dating to the pre–Islamic period, and hence it has been suggested that actual conquest was not originally planned.

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