posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by TruthAndRights:
Alessandro de Medici's father was a 'white' man who later became Pope Clement VII, and his mother a Black servant....

For those who are not aware of his background.

---

You need to update on your knowledge of Muurish history. The Medicis were Muurs! All of them.

And there was no "black servant woman", no victimized sisters here...ok? Black servant from where? Is there a country called Black?

She was an Italian Muurish mistress of one of the Medicis. A beauty and an enchantress with fire between her waist.

They were all Muurs. Now you begin to understand my thread on the Roman history, i.e. were the ancient Romans whites?

Gyal, half the story has not been told as the Dreads them sey. So forget about jumping into the middle of a new thesis, so that you can repeat that same old same old slave talk?

No..., when you get the Muurish paradigm you will see it more clearly.

Here is a picture of Carlo de Medici, another Muurish Medici. There were tons of them. Study more:

Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by IronLion:

quote:

---

Originally posted by TruthAndRights:
Alessandro de Medici's father was a 'white' man who later became Pope Clement VII, and his mother a Black servant....

For those who are not aware of his background.

---

You need to update on your knowledge of Muurish history. The Medicis were Muurs! All of them.

And there was no "black servant woman", no victimized sisters here...ok? Black servant from where? Is there a country called Black?

She was an Italian Muurish mistress of one of the Medicis. A beauty and an enchantress with fire between her waist.

They were all Muurs. Now you begin to understand my thread on the Roman history, i.e. were the ancient Romans whites?

Gyal, half the story has not been told as the Dreads them sey. So forget about jumping into the middle of a new thesis, so that you can repeat that same old same old slave talk?

No..., when you get the Muurish paradigm you will see it more clearly.

---

who di rass you ah call GYAL? No bodda draw mi out tiday eno...

slave talk mi rass....if she was di family servant, that is what she was....servant no necessarily = slave eno...kmt...

quote:

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Don't forget, one of their favorite ploys is to declare the origins of every Black person as Slaves or servants.

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Posts: 3446 | From: U.S. by way of JA by way of Africa | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by TruthAndRights:

quote:

---

Originally posted by IronLion:

quote:

---

Originally posted by TruthAndRights:
Alessandro de Medici's father was a 'white' man who later became Pope Clement VII, and his mother a Black servant....

For those who are not aware of his background.

---

You need to update on your knowledge of Muurish history. The Medicis were Muurs! All of them.

And there was no "black servant woman", no victimized sisters here...ok? Black servant from where? Is there a country called Black?

She was an Italian Muurish mistress of one of the Medicis. A beauty and an enchantress with fire between her waist.

They were all Muurs. Now you begin to understand my thread on the Roman history, i.e. were the ancient Romans whites?

Gyal, half the story has not been told as the Dreads them sey. So forget about jumping into the middle of a new thesis, so that you can repeat that same old same old slave talk?

No..., when you get the Muurish paradigm you will see it more clearly.

---

who di rass you ah call GYAL? No bodda draw mi out tiday eno...

slave talk mi rass....if she was di family servant, that is what she was....servant no necessarily = slave eno...kmt...

quote:

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Don't forget, one of their favorite ploys is to declare the origins of every Black person as Slaves or servants.

---

no sh*t sherlock...I am well aware of this...fram this ano Simpleteon Gyal you are talking to....

I've said what I have to say in this thread...nuff said...

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Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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".. was the illegitimate son of Cosimo il Vecchio and a Circassian slave bought in Venice in 1427.

his dark complexion and strong features would therefore have been inherited from his mother. Carlo de' Medici was born in 1428"
http://www.mediciexhibition.hu/medici/english/paintings.html#2

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Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

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Originally posted by KING:
Great Info Clyde and Brada.

All I can say is that you can park your racewars somewhere else because that does not fly.

What I see is Natives fighting for land between different tribs, if anything it is tribal wars.

As Brada showed in Panama, There were Blacks who lived there before the coming of euros, but to state they were from Africa direct, you must have some evidence.

I respect the hard workd people like Mike put in, but we cannot say with clearity that America was a land teeming with Blacks from Africa, What happened to them when the euros came? ANd why did the Indians not die of disease like they did from the euros?

Peace

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Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

ANASAZI





The Manding mentioned in the Mexican traditions of 1325, may represent the founders of Anasazi civilization of Four Corners section of the United States. Anasazi, is a Navajo word which means "Ancient Ones" for the founders of the spectacular cliff dwellings and great multistoried pueblos erected on open plains near the San Juan, Salt and Little Colorado rivers.



Although American anthropologists accept the theory that the Amerindians entered North America across the Bering Strait about 20000-15000 years ago , the Hopis, on the contrary say their ancestors crossed the sea during their emergence to this present Fourth World, arriving somewhere along the coast of Mexico or Central America, then gradually worked their way northward to settle in their present homes in the Four Corners region.



They call the original inhabitants of the cliff dwellings "Ancient Ones". These Anasazi were probably Manding speakers. The ruins of their great stone cities are crouched low on the Mesa tops or nestled in caves along the sheer canyon walls of this high desert region. These stone cities are exact replicas of stone cities cliff dwellings found in West African areas that formerly formed part of the Mali empire, especially the Dogon towns. These Ancient Ones, may have been members of the mande speaking group.

• Four Corner Cliff Dwellings West African Cliff Dwellings

Anasazi is a Navajo word which means “Ancient Ones” for the founders of the spectacular cliff dwellings and great multistoried pueblos erected on open plains near San Juan, and the Salt and Little Colorado rivers. The Anasazi or manding tilled the earth and even irrigated their crops, and stored some of the harvest for later use.



There were many African communities found by the Spainish in the Southern part of the United Staes and Florida [1].



Quatrefages speaks of black men who penetrated to the American southwest while other Africans migrated into Southern California [2]. And as late as 1775, Father Francisco Garces discovered a race of Black men, clearly African, residing in a community beside the Zuni Indians in New Mexico. According to Quatrefages the two races spoke different languages.



In 1528, the Spanish explorer Cabeza de Vaca and Estevanico the Moor (Blackman) from Azamor discovered numerous people living in the American Southwest as they sought to discover the Seven Cities of Cibola. The Seven Cities of Cibola were suppose to be centers where fantastic amounts of gold could be found.



In what is now known as Four Corners region where the states of Utah, Colorado, New Mexico and Arizona come together at a common point the Anasazi tilled the earth and even irrigated their crops, and stored some of the harvest for later use.



The presence of Manding in Four Corners, is supported by the appearance of Dogon and Bambara ideograms, called petroglyphs, on rocks in the Anasazi area. Moreover, there are several tablets found in Four Corners which have been deciphered that were written in an aspect of Malinke.



In the Four Corners region de Vaca, found various ethnic groups speaking a multiplicity of languages. Due to the pluralistic nature of these societies the people could only communicate using sign language . Ceram noted that:



“In reality the inhabitants of the pueblos, as we now know, were members of extraordinarily varied tribes. They spoke widely differentlanguages and had different historical backgrounds”[3].



De Vaca said that one of these ethnic groups was named Mendica[4]. This name is almost identical to the word Mandinka (Malinke), the name of one of the Manding speaking people.



In the Anasazi area we find many depictions of the Malinke- Bambara habitation sign and Kangaba sign in the American southwest. This sign is frequently found in West Africa, in areas settled by the Mande speaking people. The Kangaba sign, is clearly depicted among the glyphs found in the Guijus range of southern Arizona.




Southwest Petroglyph






The ruins of the Anasazi stone cities are crouched low on the Mesa tops or nestled in caves along the sheer canyon walls of this high desert region. These stone cities are the exact replica of stone cliff dwellings found in West African areas that formerly formed part of the Mali empire, especially the Dogon towns.

Dogon Cliff Dwelling



Due to the spread of nomadic Amerindians from the northwest,the Anasazi were forced from their stone cities and cliff dwellings by the invaders. There was probably some intermarriage between Africans and Amerindians and today we see a negroid strain among the southwestern Amerindian populations[5]. In addition many African communities were found in the Southwest when Europeans arrived in this part of the United States.


Mesa Verde Mande Habitation Sign


In summary the archaeological and historical evidence from Africa and the Americas coupled with the decipherment of ancient scripts used in the New World illustrates that people from ancient Mali, probably led by Mansa Abubakari, colonized many parts of the Americas during the first quarter of the 14th Century A.D. These Mande speaking people, like the Olmecs before them had a tremendous influence on American civilizations especially in the development of trade in Mexico .









Footnotes:







1 M.O. y Berra, Historia antique y de Conquista de Mexico, Mexico, 1960.



2 L.H. Clegg, “The Black origin of American civilization”, A Current Biblioraphy on African Affairs, No.1 (1976),pp.2-22.





3 C.W. Ceram, The First Americans, (New York,1971) p.70.



4. Ibid.,



5 P.S. Martin, G.I. Quimby and D. Collier, Indians Before Columbus, (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1970) p.19.

--------------------
C. A. Winters

Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike111:
King - I did not begin with my usual background info, because I assumed the people here could remember previous posts. I will correct that in the video.

Clyde, I hope you translation is correct, I intend to use that in the video.

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Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
ANASAZI





The Manding mentioned in the Mexican traditions of 1325, may represent the founders of Anasazi civilization of Four Corners section of the United States. Anasazi, is a Navajo word which means "Ancient Ones" for the founders of the spectacular cliff dwellings and great multistoried pueblos erected on open plains near the San Juan, Salt and Little Colorado rivers.



Although American anthropologists accept the theory that the Amerindians entered North America across the Bering Strait about 20000-15000 years ago , the Hopis, on the contrary say their ancestors crossed the sea during their emergence to this present Fourth World, arriving somewhere along the coast of Mexico or Central America, then gradually worked their way northward to settle in their present homes in the Four Corners region.



They call the original inhabitants of the cliff dwellings "Ancient Ones". These Anasazi were probably Manding speakers. The ruins of their great stone cities are crouched low on the Mesa tops or nestled in caves along the sheer canyon walls of this high desert region. These stone cities are exact replicas of stone cities cliff dwellings found in West African areas that formerly formed part of the Mali empire, especially the Dogon towns. These Ancient Ones, may have been members of the mande speaking group.

• Four Corner Cliff Dwellings West African Cliff Dwellings

Anasazi is a Navajo word which means “Ancient Ones” for the founders of the spectacular cliff dwellings and great multistoried pueblos erected on open plains near San Juan, and the Salt and Little Colorado rivers. The Anasazi or manding tilled the earth and even irrigated their crops, and stored some of the harvest for later use.



There were many African communities found by the Spainish in the Southern part of the United Staes and Florida [1].



Quatrefages speaks of black men who penetrated to the American southwest while other Africans migrated into Southern California [2]. And as late as 1775, Father Francisco Garces discovered a race of Black men, clearly African, residing in a community beside the Zuni Indians in New Mexico. According to Quatrefages the two races spoke different languages.



In 1528, the Spanish explorer Cabeza de Vaca and Estevanico the Moor (Blackman) from Azamor discovered numerous people living in the American Southwest as they sought to discover the Seven Cities of Cibola. The Seven Cities of Cibola were suppose to be centers where fantastic amounts of gold could be found.



In what is now known as Four Corners region where the states of Utah, Colorado, New Mexico and Arizona come together at a common point the Anasazi tilled the earth and even irrigated their crops, and stored some of the harvest for later use.



The presence of Manding in Four Corners, is supported by the appearance of Dogon and Bambara ideograms, called petroglyphs, on rocks in the Anasazi area. Moreover, there are several tablets found in Four Corners which have been deciphered that were written in an aspect of Malinke.



In the Four Corners region de Vaca, found various ethnic groups speaking a multiplicity of languages. Due to the pluralistic nature of these societies the people could only communicate using sign language . Ceram noted that:



“In reality the inhabitants of the pueblos, as we now know, were members of extraordinarily varied tribes. They spoke widely differentlanguages and had different historical backgrounds”[3].



De Vaca said that one of these ethnic groups was named Mendica[4]. This name is almost identical to the word Mandinka (Malinke), the name of one of the Manding speaking people.



In the Anasazi area we find many depictions of the Malinke- Bambara habitation sign and Kangaba sign in the American southwest. This sign is frequently found in West Africa, in areas settled by the Mande speaking people. The Kangaba sign, is clearly depicted among the glyphs found in the Guijus range of southern Arizona.




Southwest Petroglyph






The ruins of the Anasazi stone cities are crouched low on the Mesa tops or nestled in caves along the sheer canyon walls of this high desert region. These stone cities are the exact replica of stone cliff dwellings found in West African areas that formerly formed part of the Mali empire, especially the Dogon towns.

Dogon Cliff Dwelling



Due to the spread of nomadic Amerindians from the northwest,the Anasazi were forced from their stone cities and cliff dwellings by the invaders. There was probably some intermarriage between Africans and Amerindians and today we see a negroid strain among the southwestern Amerindian populations[5]. In addition many African communities were found in the Southwest when Europeans arrived in this part of the United States.


Mesa Verde Mande Habitation Sign


In summary the archaeological and historical evidence from Africa and the Americas coupled with the decipherment of ancient scripts used in the New World illustrates that people from ancient Mali, probably led by Mansa Abubakari, colonized many parts of the Americas during the first quarter of the 14th Century A.D. These Mande speaking people, like the Olmecs before them had a tremendous influence on American civilizations especially in the development of trade in Mexico .









Footnotes:







1 M.O. y Berra, Historia antique y de Conquista de Mexico, Mexico, 1960.



2 L.H. Clegg, “The Black origin of American civilization”, A Current Biblioraphy on African Affairs, No.1 (1976),pp.2-22.





3 C.W. Ceram, The First Americans, (New York,1971) p.70.



4. Ibid.,



5 P.S. Martin, G.I. Quimby and D. Collier, Indians Before Columbus, (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1970) p.19.

---

Posts: 55 | From: nairobi | Registered: Jul 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

---

Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
DR winters both the Dogons and the Anasazi were forced to be cliff dwellers for the same reasons as a defensive move, as a matter o fact you pointed that out,so it seems to me that both populations arrived at a similar solution because of similar problems, The Malistine Empire was pressing down hard on them,so that is perhaps coincidence.

The original cliff dwellers are called the Tellem they were red skinned Pygmies and they were the ones to influence the Dogons
The Tellem are believed to have arrived at the rocky Bandiagara Escarpment in present-day southern Mali sometime during the eleventh century A.D. By the fifteenth to sixteenth centuries, the Tellem population was devastated, possibly due to famine caused by drought or Songhai and Mossi slave raids. Their cultural legacy, however, profoundly influenced the Dogon, a people who succeeded them and continue to populate the Bandiagara to this day. Although the origins of the Dogon remain unclear, they are not direct descendents of the Tellem, who appear to have left no distinct ancestors. The name by which they are remembered, "Tellem," is a Dogon word signifying "We found them."

Source: Footed Bowl [Mali; Tellem peoples] (1977.394.59a) | Heilbrunn Timeline of Art History | The Metropolitan Museum of Art
http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/works-of-art/1977.394.59a

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Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

---

Originally posted by kikuyu2:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
ANASAZI





The Manding mentioned in the Mexican traditions of 1325, may represent the founders of Anasazi civilization of Four Corners section of the United States. Anasazi, is a Navajo word which means "Ancient Ones" for the founders of the spectacular cliff dwellings and great multistoried pueblos erected on open plains near the San Juan, Salt and Little Colorado rivers.



Although American anthropologists accept the theory that the Amerindians entered North America across the Bering Strait about 20000-15000 years ago , the Hopis, on the contrary say their ancestors crossed the sea during their emergence to this present Fourth World, arriving somewhere along the coast of Mexico or Central America, then gradually worked their way northward to settle in their present homes in the Four Corners region.



They call the original inhabitants of the cliff dwellings "Ancient Ones". These Anasazi were probably Manding speakers. The ruins of their great stone cities are crouched low on the Mesa tops or nestled in caves along the sheer canyon walls of this high desert region. These stone cities are exact replicas of stone cities cliff dwellings found in West African areas that formerly formed part of the Mali empire, especially the Dogon towns. These Ancient Ones, may have been members of the mande speaking group.

• Four Corner Cliff Dwellings West African Cliff Dwellings

Anasazi is a Navajo word which means “Ancient Ones” for the founders of the spectacular cliff dwellings and great multistoried pueblos erected on open plains near San Juan, and the Salt and Little Colorado rivers. The Anasazi or manding tilled the earth and even irrigated their crops, and stored some of the harvest for later use.



There were many African communities found by the Spainish in the Southern part of the United Staes and Florida [1].



Quatrefages speaks of black men who penetrated to the American southwest while other Africans migrated into Southern California [2]. And as late as 1775, Father Francisco Garces discovered a race of Black men, clearly African, residing in a community beside the Zuni Indians in New Mexico. According to Quatrefages the two races spoke different languages.



In 1528, the Spanish explorer Cabeza de Vaca and Estevanico the Moor (Blackman) from Azamor discovered numerous people living in the American Southwest as they sought to discover the Seven Cities of Cibola. The Seven Cities of Cibola were suppose to be centers where fantastic amounts of gold could be found.



In what is now known as Four Corners region where the states of Utah, Colorado, New Mexico and Arizona come together at a common point the Anasazi tilled the earth and even irrigated their crops, and stored some of the harvest for later use.



The presence of Manding in Four Corners, is supported by the appearance of Dogon and Bambara ideograms, called petroglyphs, on rocks in the Anasazi area. Moreover, there are several tablets found in Four Corners which have been deciphered that were written in an aspect of Malinke.



In the Four Corners region de Vaca, found various ethnic groups speaking a multiplicity of languages. Due to the pluralistic nature of these societies the people could only communicate using sign language . Ceram noted that:



“In reality the inhabitants of the pueblos, as we now know, were members of extraordinarily varied tribes. They spoke widely differentlanguages and had different historical backgrounds”[3].



De Vaca said that one of these ethnic groups was named Mendica[4]. This name is almost identical to the word Mandinka (Malinke), the name of one of the Manding speaking people.



In the Anasazi area we find many depictions of the Malinke- Bambara habitation sign and Kangaba sign in the American southwest. This sign is frequently found in West Africa, in areas settled by the Mande speaking people. The Kangaba sign, is clearly depicted among the glyphs found in the Guijus range of southern Arizona.




Southwest Petroglyph






The ruins of the Anasazi stone cities are crouched low on the Mesa tops or nestled in caves along the sheer canyon walls of this high desert region. These stone cities are the exact replica of stone cliff dwellings found in West African areas that formerly formed part of the Mali empire, especially the Dogon towns.

Dogon Cliff Dwelling



Due to the spread of nomadic Amerindians from the northwest,the Anasazi were forced from their stone cities and cliff dwellings by the invaders. There was probably some intermarriage between Africans and Amerindians and today we see a negroid strain among the southwestern Amerindian populations[5]. In addition many African communities were found in the Southwest when Europeans arrived in this part of the United States.


Mesa Verde Mande Habitation Sign


In summary the archaeological and historical evidence from Africa and the Americas coupled with the decipherment of ancient scripts used in the New World illustrates that people from ancient Mali, probably led by Mansa Abubakari, colonized many parts of the Americas during the first quarter of the 14th Century A.D. These Mande speaking people, like the Olmecs before them had a tremendous influence on American civilizations especially in the development of trade in Mexico .









Footnotes:







1 M.O. y Berra, Historia antique y de Conquista de Mexico, Mexico, 1960.



2 L.H. Clegg, “The Black origin of American civilization”, A Current Biblioraphy on African Affairs, No.1 (1976),pp.2-22.





3 C.W. Ceram, The First Americans, (New York,1971) p.70.



4. Ibid.,



5 P.S. Martin, G.I. Quimby and D. Collier, Indians Before Columbus, (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1970) p.19.

---

Thank you for revealing the true race of the 'mysterious Hopi.'I've read about them and it was always attributed to unknown people,the Amerindians or even aliens!
Do you have any incontrovertible craniometrics?

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Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

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Originally posted by Clyde Winters:



The personage does not represent a sacrifice victim, it probably represents the priest under the jaguar skin.

The symbols to the right of the figure give us his name Ka Su-fa "The Honored Offering of Love". The full inscription is Ka SuFa i ta="Ka Sufa you are a sacred object".

Under the face on the right side which you a thought was a sacrifice has writing under it :Ta gbe ta= "The unblemished supporter of the mystic order".

Great find.

.

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Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

Mike I just read :Esotericism of the Popol Vuh by Raphael Girard .

This book is quite illuminating. In the book he discusses the Dance of the Black Giants. The dance of the Black Giants explains the reason why the Indians joined the Spanish in destroying the Aztec nation.

It appears that the Indians felt the Blacks were arrogant and 'boastful' and they wanted to overthrow the blacks.

It appears that the Indians[reds] had sided with the Blacks when whites first attempted to invade Mexico.







Although they sided with the Blacks it appears that they were mistreated by the Blacks.











As a result, the Mexican Indians decided that they would join the whites in battling the blacks if whites ever returned. This would explain the Mexican tradition of the return of the white gods. Below is Girard's description of the Dance of the Giant's.

• quote:

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  Before explaining the action of the dance, we shall describe the apparel of the actors. The King wears rose-colored trousers whose two cuffs have each been cut in four triangular points to make eight "solar rays," a feature we also find in the dress of figures sculptured on the stelae at Copán which have the lower legs adorned with belts of triangles whose meaning of sun rays is well known. Also the cuffs of the shirt sleeves, tied up like bracelets, terminate in yellow pointed festoons, the typical color of the Solar god. It must be noted that whereas one cuff has ten festoons, the other exhibits only seven. The shirt is sprinkled with blue points on a light background and, in terms of its cut, the front flap is longer than the rear, and the area of the umbilicus is bordered by thirteen points having yellow borders each ten centimeters long. The collar is cut into five triangles. As for the adornments of the cuff, armlet, and anklets, we find they are also typical of those found on the sacerdotal personages depicted in Maya statuary; there they figure not only as simple adornments but as arithmetic and time-reckoning elements, as we shall explain. Upon the rose-colored background of the trousers, along the outer seams, run two vertical yellow bands sown with a double line of red thread; each band finishes in a figure of three elements (reproduced below), also yellow, which are the graphic expression of the trine and dual conception of native theogony.
  The King is the only personage who wears a crown, made of cardboard and covered with brilliant gold paper, terminating in ten points. In form it is similar to the headdress worn on certain crowned heads in ancient Mesoamerican statuary. A blue bonnet, symbol of the celestial vault, covers the top of the King's head while a rosy veil some thirty centimeters long falls from it and covers his face. A long yellow cloak with surplice covers the shoulders of this august figure and, with the crown and signs of solar rays, composes the unmistakable evidence of regal dignity belonging only to the Sun god. The four ritual colors — yellow, blue, red, and white — are represented in the dress of this being which, occupying the chief place in the Chortí pantheon, symbolizes the cosmos. The absence of black in the gamut of cosmic colors should be noted.
  The many triangular points that literally radiate from the divine figure stand for the sun's rays. No less symbolic is the yellow cape, the duplication of the resplendent mantle of Gucumatz or Quetzalcoatl in which the elements of feathers, sun rays, breastplates, and hair have the same meaning, are consubstantial, and reduce to a common linguistic denominator according to the native way of thinking. The mantle is yellow to identify the Solar deity or deity of Summer, but is transformed into green — the color of the vegetation — to indicate the Agrarian deity who governs during the winter season.
  Since the Dance of the Giants represents a festivity in honor of the Solar god in his aspect as a summer deity, the color of his mantle must be yellow, contrasting with the green mantle that covers the shoulders of the elder of the agrarian worship, just like the cape of the god he represents when he celebrates the ceremonial corresponding to winter. In similar manner the mythological serpent (sierpe) becomes a red snake (culebra) and a blue snake (or green since the same word is used for both colors) to symbolize the change of seasons which are clearly differentiated in Chortí liturgy.
  
  Figure 24a. 1. Glyph on cap of master of ceremonies. 2. Figure on trouser cuffs of Giants. 3. Shaft of Black Giant's headdress. 4. Insignia of Gavite. 5. Captain's sleeve adornment. 6. Shoulder insignia. 7. Collar spangles.
  
  
  Figure 24b. 8. Lunar hieroglyph on Captain's cap. 9-10. Captain's costume, trouser-cuff figures. 11. King's costume, trouser-cuff ornament. 14. Cap with veil. 15. Lunar glyph in the Atl sign, Aztec calendar. 16. Atl glyph in the Cospi Codex. 17. Atl glyph in the Nuttall Codex. 18. Atl element in the Laud Codex.
  
  
  Figure 24c. 12. Points on King's crown. 13. Points on King's shirt.
  
  All this serves to clarify certain peculiarities in Mesoamerican iconography which until now have not been understood because the researchers had not penetrated into the esotericism that conceals native religious thought, to the point where some pictographic texts have been "corrected" in the belief that the native artist had made a mistake. Such is the case of Lord Kingsborough: when reproducing a plate of the Borgia Codex in which the Solar deity was associated with yellow feathers, he believed there had been a mistake made by the artist because in his view the feathers should have been green. And he, in fact, colored them green, but by doing so he succeeded only in deforming the original meaning of the text (Lord Kingsborough, Antiquities of Mexico, London, 1831).
  With respect to the time-reckoning symbolism exhibited in the apparel of the King, we can say that there are represented in it all the basic units of Maya computation. The 10 points of the crown and the 8 of the trousers make the 18 uinals of the tun — a unit of the katún series that we also find in the 18 per year presentations of the famous Chortí drama — while the two series of 10 rays on the crown and a series on one of the sleeves symbolize the basic unit of the native vigesimal system, i.e., the 20 days of the uinal. By extension, the same number represents the katún composed of 20 tuns, as well as the whole ascending series of the katún wheel: baktún of 20 katúns, piktún of 20 baktúns, kalaltún of 20 piktúns, and kinchiltún of 20 kalaltúns. Also the breakdown into the katunic thirteen and the wutz or doubles of 7 katúns is represented by the 13 points of the shirt and the 7 of the other sleeve. This peculiarity is explained in a most picturesque way in the Book of Chilam Balam of Chumayel as follows: "Then, the days went to test each other, and they said, 'Thirteen and seven in a group . . .' " Such is characteristic of Maya computation, and has been preserved traditionally by the Chortí.
  According to the master of ceremonies, the Black Giant formerly used to wear a cardboard gauntlet showing 9 gold stars on a white or silver field. The gauntlet covered his whole forearm and reflected the sunlight when he brandished his sword. The whole of the symbolism displayed in the Black Giant's attire speaks to us of a stellar entity having incomplete solar as well as lunar markings, while his characterizing number, 9, shows him to be a personage from the underworld where the Nine Lords of Night reside. This symbolism is in perfect accord with the description the Popol Vuh gives us of "a being, full of self-pride, which boasted of being the sun and the moon," but which is also related with the underworld beings whose chief was Hun Camé, who was then absolute sovereign of the earth. From all this, then, we see that the Black Giant synthesizes at one and the same time — as can be seen in the performance of the drama itself — the mythical giants as well as the Xibalban caste of the Camé: that is, all of the malign forces in the universe before Hunahpú (Gavite), the hero-god of Quiché-Maya tradition, vanquished them and reduced them to impotence and thereby inaugurated a new era. That era is the era of Maya civilization, in contrast with the state of barbarism which characterized the former ethnical cycle and which, because it is barbaric, is personified by the Black Giant.
  In the following episode, Apparition, the vicissitudes undergone by the White Giant, who has fallen into the hands of his rival, are mimed. The Black Giant "intimidates" his opponent by beating the ground furiously with his sword while he makes menacing gestures and movements in hopes of touching or wounding the White Giant, who defends himself as best he can by trying to evade and riposte the thrusts. The battle is suspended at intervals while the giants pay homage to the sun, but is then immediately resumed with greater fury. During the whole episode the Black Giant maintains a menacing stance, not only toward his rival but also toward the large audience witnessing the spectacle. Both actors watch each other constantly, trying to take advantage of the smallest error of the other. For whole minutes they are motionless like statues, then cautiously cross swords as they dart glances around in all directions as if fearing some invisible danger. Then they come to grips and each places the point of his sword against his opponent's neck, a tragic pose that lasts but an instant. Finally the Black Giant succeeds in decapitating the White Giant "because his power is greater," an episode that for the Chortí represents the moment "when our Lord was suffering under the dominion of the bad spirit."
  
  
  The Gavites come on the scene in the fourth act, The Sling, and, as said, represent the twins Hunahpú and Ixbalamqué who try to avenge the death of their father, the White Giant. The solar Gavite has the principal role and is played by a young boy who, to carry out the action well, must not be more than twelve years old, although in the culminating phases of the drama he is replaced by the master of ceremonies. In this act the enchanters place themselves on each side of the Gavite who, confident of the enormous magical power accumulated about him, challenges the Black Giant, protecting himself with a red handkerchief with which he also provokes his adversary. The Giant assails the handkerchief with the point of his sword and forces Gavite to give ground; but the latter returns to the charge and now it is he who forces the Black Giant to give way in the face of his magic handkerchief. Five times this action, now favoring the one and then the other, is repeated by the two actors, who have placed themselves in an east-west line while the remaining cast hold their original positions. Thus, the scene of combat takes the form of a double T, the same as the model of the ball court in which the opponents occupy the central line and the others are in two perpendicular lines with respect to them.
  Exceedingly interesting is the esoteric value of this episode in which, according to the exact explanation of the master of ceremonies, "Gavite always tries to be the target so that he will receive the blows, freeing the rest of his companions, because in this way it is on Gavite that will fall the darts meant for all." In other words, Gavite assumes the role of redeemer of humanity, sacrificing himself only to save the rest, concentrating upon his own person the attention of the evil forces and receiving "the darts" so that they will not fall upon his own kind. In this way Gavite brings out his function as redeemer-god, the equal of what Hunahpú does in the Popol Vuh.
  The Dance of the giants probably represents the fight between whites and the Blacks for power. Thw whites lost, but the red [the Maya] were used as pawns by the whites to defeat the Blacks.
  
  
  Another Chortí characteristic exemplified by Gavite refers to the relations between parents and children. To the latter fall the actual labor to be done, while the former support them through their counseling. This feature of the family code, elevated to the plane of the divine, shows us the personages who represent the sun and the moon in a passive attitude throughout the drama, since they are the grandparents. On the other hand, Gavite assumes the active role, although under the spiritual direction of his divine ancestors, as is seen in the action of the enchanters about whom the Popol Vuh tells us also.
  Then Gavite performs various magical passes, moving his handkerchief with great dexterity over his adversary's entire body, at the same time appearing to clean the handkerchief by blowing at it so that he can exert his magical influence over the Black Giant. The latter tries to prevent this by cleaning off his clothing with his own handkerchief, especially defending the lower part of his body, since Gavite casts his spell "downward" to conquer the giant by using stratagem instead of force — that is, a method different from the one preferred by his opponent. Following this pantomime, Gavite brusquely turns his back to the west and directs his glance to the east as if imploring supernatural help in a very difficult case. He pays tribute to the sun by the customary salute. And at this point the play is recessed by a short intermission between the fourth and fifth acts.
  The fifth and final act begins with el mento or the "spoken account," since until now the drama has had the silent character of a ballet. The Black Giant challenges Gavite in the following words:
  O Captain of God, compelled among those loyal to my banner, with due respect I say to you: today we come forth to contend for a kingdom [the dispute is for universal dominion]. Therefore, with those strong arms kill me so that you can begin your reign. Ah! Forces, captains: where are those strong arms with which to fight? And death trembles before me, and showing you other powers, now I want to see your face and I wait. Your hands are going to offend you. Then attack me now with your weapons, which I will turn into ashes and send back to you. And without any more niceties or considerations, let us have at it to prove your mettle and whether you are a brave soldier.*
  * [This statement of the Black Giant and Gavite's reply immediately following it, as well as later statements made by each in the "spoken account," are rather literal translations of what is an archaic Spanish phrased according to the Indian's elliptical manner of expression. It is useless, therefore, to dwell overmuch on them. The reader should rather focus upon the author's explanations of their meaning for a clear understanding of their significance in the Drama. — Trans.]
  Gavite replies:
  I give you answer to this great cause; they say that you challenge me to come out and fight. I come with my strong arms and hands, which will be your death, and your death awaits you with great patience. I have been well advised, and now all my soldiers come together and are well prepared. From my arms you will not escape to the hell of your power.
  The Black Giant continues:
  What does this little unfortunate beardless man dare to do [referring to Gavite who advances with sword in hand], so small in stature, now he wishes to come and contend with a giant Golillo. If I catch him in my arms, I'll break him into a thousand pieces and eat him. Seven kings have I beaten and seven kings have I vanquished [an allusion to Hun Camé's triumph over the seven Ahpú, or of the Black over the White Giant]. If I am in God, God shall consume me and glorified shall I be. After the world that I have gained [allusion to his universal sovereignty], what dares this beardless little man, born only yesterday, who now wants to have at me without revealing himself. Now play the drum, bugle, and cornet [flute and conch shell] so that we can see that mortal. Well, come here, little beardless unfortunate man; if I were to kick you, the whole world itself would tremble.
  Upon the Black Giant's order the musicians play the march titled del Batallón, while Gavite and the Black Giant place themselves in the center of the groups so they can dance. The Giant opens combat, saying, "Come here, little beardless unfortunate man, don't be frightened by my name [as said elsewhere, in the native conception the name is the same as the person, and we have here a clear demonstration of this]; there is no one who is not afraid of me." Then a series of skirmishes takes place between the two adversaries, who admirably fit the descriptions given in the Popol Vuh. Gavite, flanked by the armorers, takes some steps toward the west and then flees toward the east and hides behind the King, seeking paternal protection. This posture reminds one of the native idea regarding the young sun who "like the child hides behind his father" when the latter ascends through the celestial vault. The two opponents peer at each other for several moments before returning to the center of the square.
  It is then that takes place the scene most characteristic of the drama, which is found exactly described in all its details in the Popol Vuh. Just as the Quiché manuscript puts it, Gavite gives a surprising demonstration of his magical power, letting himself be cut up and then becoming his whole person again. He is "tasajeado" (cut to pieces), to use the Chortí expression, just as an animal which has been hunted, beginning with the legs and arms as described in the Quiché codex.
  
  Figure 29. Scene of the dismemberment.
  
  As the Popol Vuh says: they cut him into pieces and tore out his heart and, holding it aloft, showed it to the Lords. In the Chortí drama a handkerchief represents the heart that is displayed to the sun. Another actor cuts off the legs, arms, and so on, in succession.
  These pieces taken from the body are triumphantly exhibited first before the sun and then to the audience so that none will doubt that Gavite has really died. A handkerchief is used for the dismembered pieces of the body, as can be seen in the photograph. The Chichicastenango manuscript describes the act as follows:
  Hunahpú and Ixbalamqué did many wonderful things. They cut each other into pieces, killing each other, and the first to let himself be killed was as one who is dead, but immediately revived. The Xibalbans begged them to cut each other up. . . . Immediately they did so. Ixbalamqué cut Hunahpú to pieces, first the legs and arms; cutting off the head, she carried it a distance away, then cut out the heart. . . . Arise!" she commanded Hunahpú at once, and he returned to life.
  This episode of magical dismemberment, narrated in the Popol Vuh and dramatized in the Dance of the Giants, is also known in the Huastec culture. Sahagún, telling us of the enchantments effected by these people, says, "they simulated the burning of houses which did not really burn and the killing of each other and cutting the bodies into pieces, and other things which were appearances and not really done." Such an identic tradition among Chortís, Quichés, and Huastecs does much to confirm the great age of the idea which was a patrimony common to all the Maya peoples before their separation. With respect to the system of enchanting by means of a twisted handkerchief, displayed by Gavite, we find the same custom among the Mayas, for Redfield writes concerning the badz pach (hit the shoulder) that the elder gives the patient some taps with twisted handkerchiefs.
  On bringing himself back to life, Gavite and his companion and both giants form a cross in the center of the stage, just as depicted in the following diagram, an allegorical sketch marked out twice in succession by means of dances in rectilinear movements north to south and east to west in four turnings: first, from north to south; second, east to west; third, north to south; and fourth, east to west. In relation to these movements, we note a very meaningful detail: the Gavites dance only along the east-west line and the giants along the north-south line, and neither touches the territory of the other. The giants do not participate in the lateral dance marked out by the sun's course, this being reserved for the Gavites, "only themselves coming together," as the textual expression in the Popol Vuh has it. Each pair moves about within its own line of dance, both lines together symbolizing the astronomical cross. Later on, when the Gavites have conquered the Black Giant, they also dominate the north-south line and form a homogeneous cross, dancing then along its entire extension.
  
  Figure 32.
  Following the scene of the cross there is another magical action by Gavite, who runs swiftly toward the giants. These lock arms to block his passage, but Gavite leaps agilely over the obstacle, punching the chest of his rival with his closed fists and tries to separate the giants. This maneuver is repeated four times, Gavite avoiding being knocked down by the kicks given him by the Black Giant. This scene doubtless dramatizes the passage in the Popol Vuh in which Hunahpú obliges the Xibalbans to reveal their names by pricking them with a hair taken from his own shinbone, a magical procedure well known to Mayan enchanters who hurl invisible darts at the person they intend to affect.
  
  Figure 27. The Gavites bewitch the Giants.
  Gavite keeps on surprising the audience with his magical abilities that culminate in the scene called "The Castration," when he grips the Black Giant and makes a gesture as though castrating the latter. This symbolizes the annihilation of the virility, that is, the power, of his opponent. In the same way, the "castration" of others selected from among the spectators is put into effect; these are carried to the center of the patio in reminiscence of the pursuit and destruction of the people of Xibalbá by Hunahpú and Ixbalamqué following the death of Hun Camé. The merriment of the audience now reaches its crescendo: some of them flee to evade being seized and "castrated," others pursue them, and all join in a great hubbub anticipating the scene that will mark the apotheosis of Gavite. In fact, as the master of ceremonies explains: "Gavite already had won the battle because he succeeded in overcoming his adversary."
  
  
  Then the King intervenes, ordering the Gavites to reunite with their father the White Giant whom they have rescued from the power of his enemy, saying to them: "Go now, take hold of your father, embrace your father." These words fix the grandfather's instructional role in the family by telling his grandchildren to fulfill their filial duties, just as is done today within the extended Chortí family. The King is immediately obeyed and then there takes place the scene of "The Death," wherein one of the Gavites takes hold of the White Giant while the other imprisons the Black Giant in his arms, immobilizing him.
  
  Figure 28. The act in which each Gavite (Hunahpú and Ixbalamqué) grip a Giant from behind. One holds the Black Giant while the other rescues the White Giant on orders from the King who, with his Companion, witnesses the action.
  
  The pairs, without separating, and preceded by the two enchanters, place themselves in a single file along the east-west axis, the King and the Captain standing apart at the eastern end of the line as follows:
  
  Distribution of the characters according to the Popol Vuh:
  Captain: Ixmucané
  Enchanter
  Enchanter
  Hun Camé
  Hunahpú
  Vukup-Ahpú
  Ixbalamqué
  
  Distribution of the characters according to the Chortí version:
  King: Ixpiyacoc
  Armorer
  Armorer
  Black Giant
  Gavite White
  Giant Gavite
  
  The six actors bend their bodies in a simultaneous bowing movement, describing a semicircular figure to the right and then to the left: that is, toward the south and then the north. This movement makes perfectly clear the Gavites' dominion over the whole area of ground covered by the cross. The King and Captain look on impassively at these movements, which imitate the ball game, since the ball describes a semicircle in its flight from one end of the playing field to the other in the same direction marked by the bowing of the actors, which coincides with the south-north axis of the ball court at Copán. Once again the figure of the cross is symbolically traced, but this time vertically rather than horizontally as before, when it was traced out on the surface of the quadrangle. In an erect position, the heads and feet of the actors in accordance with the native conception indicate two astronomical points: the zenith and the nadir. The latter point is beneath the earth, since the Chortís like Ptolemy figure that the terrestrial surface is a fixed quadrangle around which the sun revolves. The actors then pay homage to the sun by bowing to east and west.
  
  Finally, Gavite decapitates the Black Giant and takes away his sword, after the giant humbly says to him: "Rest a moment, child, and I will give you your payment, because I now yield myself, and even my heart trembles." He acknowledges himself vanquished and a tribute-payer to Gavite from thenceforward. But the hero-god replies: "There is no rest now, boastful giant, because we are beginning the end of the labor [hornada]." We note here for the reader's better understanding that the word hornada means task, act, or ceremony, and is a term frequently employed by Chortí elders in that sense.
  There is no discrepancy between the Chortí and the Quiché sources regarding the manner of killing the chief of the infernal forces. Gavite cuts off his head, just as Hunahpú did that of Hun Camé in the Popol Vuh: "The first to be cut off was the head of the one called Hun Camé, the great Lord of Xibalbá." Offering the Black Giant's head and sword as trophies to the King and Captain, Gavite says: "Here I bring you the head of this giant, with a blade of steel from my sling, from my battle. It will overcome the whole world, since if you do not subdue it, it will be your subduer."
  
  Figure 31. Scene in which Gavite (Hunahpú) uncovers his face after overcoming the Black Giant (Hun Camé), and delivers the latter's sword to the King. From left to right: the Captain (lunar goddess), Gavite, the White Giant (representing the seven Ahpú), and the Black Giant, conquered and disarmed.
  
  The King answers: "Let us give thanks to the Lord, and let the death of this boastful giant be told [for the gods to speak is the same as to carry the action out, in the Chortí conception]. Today songs of rejoicing will be heard among my people, Gavite. Take my crown, Gavite, we will begin praises to the King. Let this be forever. Amen." Finishing his discourse, the King returns the head and the sword to the Black Giant who will thereafter be his subject. The drama ends as it began: with honors and salutes to the sun, this time beginning from east to west to signify the triumph of the luminous forces over those of the shadows. Without doubt the fifth act, the apotheosis of Gavite, must be related to the fifth day, that of the resurrection of Hunahpú according to the Quiché text.
  

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