quote:Originally posted by KoKaKoLa: Dana..aka the female Clyde. You're a clown.*After you [fail] attempt to claim the Banu Sulaym as your own, you claim now the Berbers. Most of the berbers have nothing to do with vandals and the Turks The eurasian ancestors of the berbers have been in North Africa since more than 30,000 years.. What a clown.
you are actually the clown and A NUT that was cracked long ago by me. You will never be Berber. So get over it.
claim Banu Sulaym as my own what - nut! JAHIZ WRITES "...all the peoples settled in the Harra, besides the Sulaim are black".
Just because the Banu Sulaym were described as black "as the lava of al Harra" doesn't mean I am claiming to be one of them.
Just because Chinese manuscripts say the Arabs coming from Arabia in the 8th century were "black men with high noses". Doesn't mean I am claiming them as "MY OWN" What the H are u trolling about!
NUT!
I have my own genealogy which I am proud of.
Just because Sulaym and all of the tribe of the al Harra were black as lava and taking European slave women doesn't mean I am claiming them as one of my own.
DUMMY!
Just because Ibn Athir A KURD made up a folktale about the Sulaym Arab Sa'd al Aswad went to the prophet asking if he would be accepted into Heaven because of he is blackness and Athir explained that he was black because HE WAS A PURE ARAB. Don't tell me I am claiming them as my own -
WACKY!
Just because the BanuSulaymi said to the prophet. “I am afraid that if I see a Byzantine woman that I won’t be able to control myself” Byzantium Viewed by the Arabs (2004), Nadia al Cheikh (p. 124).
Don't BLAME ME!lol!
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by KoKaKoLa: Dana..aka the female Clyde. You're a clown.*After you [fail] attempt to claim the Banu Sulaym as your own, you claim now the Berbers. Most of the berbers have nothing to do with vandals and the Turks The eurasian ancestors of the berbers have been in North Africa since more than 30,000 years.. What a clown.
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: there's evidence for European (north Mediterranean) immigrants to littoral N Africa in prehistoric times
_____^^^^ dana, Jari, comments?
Yep - sure is. Which was absorbed into the African population as evidenced by the length of the Fulani hair even in prehistoric art.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
Naaw...The Man Looks like what he is a Mullatto/ North African. Denial of his African Features is madness..
quote:Originally posted by melchior7:
Disagree. Africanus looks like an Arab or Jew. [/QB][/QUOTE] ^^^ BTW, that Photo is of a Portugese man...LOL. But lets keep it a secret...Im sure no Black African ever crossed into Spain only Blond Eurasians...
Posts: 8805 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged |
BTW - nobody attributes the dark -skin of the Sanhaja or Tuareg to their coming south but white people like you who want to put themselves in their place.
Tuareg are an Afro-Asiatic people from East Africa who like AFro-Americans have absorbed some whites during their long stay along the coasts and inland regions of North Africa and nothing you EURONUTS write is going to change that. '
Tuaregs have been to known to take Black slaves. Observe:
"Tuareg to maintain their pastoral traditions. Tuareg society distinguishes among nobles, vassals, and serfs. Slave-stealing expeditions have been abolished, but the black descendants of former slaves still perform the menial tasks. Social status is determined through matrilineal descent. Converted by the Arabs to Islam, the Tuareg have retained some of their older rites" http://www.zyama.com/tuareg/index.htm Is that made up?
Should I mention the racial situation with the white and Black Moors in Mauretania? Or should I save that for later?
And did you Leo Africanus was not a Moor? Dude was born in Granada for fcuks sake. Leo Africanus, (c. 1494 – c. 1554?) (or al-Hasan ibn Muhammad al-Wazzan al-Fasi, Arabic:حسن ابن محمد الوزان الفاسي) was a Moorish diplomat and author who is best known for his book Descrittione dell’Africa (Description of Africa) describing the geography of North Africa. Most of what is known about his life is gathered from autobiographical notes in his own work. Leo Africanus was born in Granada in around 1494 but his family moved to Fez soon after his birth.[1][2][3] In Fez he studied at the University of Al Karaouine. As a young man he accompanied an uncle on a diplomatic mission to the Maghreb, reaching as far as the city of Timbuktu (c. 1510), then part of the Songhai Empire.
Do you just have tendency of usually being wrong, or are you just having a bad day??
-------------------- In the vast pasture of life you're bound to step in some truth. Posts: 682 | From: East Coast | Registered: May 2011
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by KoKaKoLa: Dana..aka the female Clyde. You're a clown.*After you [fail] attempt to claim the Banu Sulaym as your own, you claim now the Berbers. Most of the berbers have nothing to do with vandals and the Turks The eurasian ancestors of the berbers have been in North Africa since more than 30,000 years.. What a clown.
your clown and nut that was cracked long ago by me. You will never be Berber. So get over it.
Last time i checked, i have berber ancestries , i eat berber food, im from a berber arabized country and my family name is Berber.
Keep entertaining me, Clown.
You failed with the Banu Sulaym (whom i also descend from) and now you fail with the Berbers.
lets enumerate Dana "Darwisha" theories. _The Banu Sulaym were blacks _The Berbers were blacks before the 17th century. _Most of the modern berbers are of Vandal and Turkish ancestries.
You probably dont want to see the genepool of the modern berbers, right?
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: Romans come from Rome dimwitty.lol! This is the profile of my Kabyle ex husband from Souk Ahras where the Romans settled.
Naturally his grandfather told him they came from Sicily. Just because a coin existed under Massinissa doesn't make him a Tuareg.
YOU LOSE!
did I say he was Tuareg?
dana your husband was Kabyle?
The Kabyle people are the largest homogeneous Algerian cultural-linguistic-ethnic community and the largest nation in North Africa to be considered exclusively Berber.
Kabylia is a series of villages on the peaks [altitude 6000–9000 ft.] of the eastern part of the Atlas (100 km east of Algiers) In ancient times, Kabylia was an empty, rocky and wild area, inhabited by various animals including bears, wild boar, wolves, monkeys, eagles, and even hyenas. No human settlement is mentioned in any historical books documenting the peaceful period between Numidians (east northern Africa approx. modern Algeria + Tunisia) with Rome through the alliance and dating back to 500 BC, against the Phoenicians.
The term Berber, progressively was applied to all native north Africans, starting their invasion in 1871. Until then, and for centuries since the departure of Rome, North Africa is a vast territory occupied by a confederation of various Peoples and city-states, without a central power. Of these the Libyans to the Mauritanians, the Moors(Morocco), the Tunisians, the Touaregs (Sahel/Desert), the Mzab, the Chenouas, the Chaouis and Kabyles.
^^^this is a Fulani? dana stop playin
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
Actually black African mummified hair doused in chemicals could have looked anyway before it was mummified as we know from chemical analysis.
BTW - You can always try some perm relaxer. Svenska to see what I mean, if you even know what that is. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by KoKaKoLa: Dana..aka the female Clyde. You're a clown.*After you [fail] attempt to claim the Banu Sulaym as your own, you claim now the Berbers. Most of the berbers have nothing to do with vandals and the Turks The eurasian ancestors of the berbers have been in North Africa since more than 30,000 years.. What a clown.
your clown and nut that was cracked long ago by me. You will never be Berber. So get over it.
Last time i checked, i have berber ancestries , i eat berber food, im from a berber arabized country and my family name is Berber.
Keep entertaining me, Clown.
You failed with the Banu Sulaym (whom i also descend from) and now you fail with the Berbers.
lets enumerate Dana "Darwisha" theories. _The Banu Sulaym were blacks _The Berbers were blacks before the 17th century. _Most of the modern berbers are of Vandal and Turkish ancestries.
You probably dont want to see the genepool of the modern berbers, right?
Giiirl
Congradulations child of a hundred white slave women you are now officially Arab!
Why call that my theory when the Kurds and Iraqis knew what Sulaym looked like white woman.
: “These tribes take slaves from among the Ashban to mind their flocks and for irrigation work, manual labor, and domestic service, and their concubines from among the Byzantines; and yet it takes less than three generations for the Harra to give them all the complexion of the Banu Sulaim” 9th century Al Jahiz of Iraq
BOOOO YAH!
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
I have posted many pictures of the Auelamidden Tuareg and Yantaras Tuareg. Beautiful dark brown people even today.
They were also the Bardoa or Bardama of Western Maghreb and of Libya.
As I have started many times on this forum the term "white" or "abyad" was commonly used in Arabic for brown beautiful complexioned people NOT EUROPEAN- looking people who were called "red or "Ahmar" in color.
"white" Lamtuna or Auelimmidden and Yantaras Tuareg occupy Niger
Lol! - i am with the early Libyan anthropologists who considered the white Ethiopians Africans who painted themselves white.
Jebel Nafusa Berber woman
Tariq bin Ziyaad was a Nafzawa Berber like this woman. If he was blond that would be surprising since Zenata were dark brown (Tuareg - Iforas and near black (Zuwagha, Jarawa) and not TALL BLONDS like the Slavic slaves of the Arabs
Your tuaregs are obviously mixed. Again the average genotype for Berbers is a mixed one with Eurasian portion being OLDER!
Oh so the Leuco Aetiopians painetd themselves White?? Lol!
-------------------- In the vast pasture of life you're bound to step in some truth. Posts: 682 | From: East Coast | Registered: May 2011
| IP: Logged |
I have posted many pictures of the Auelamidden Tuareg and Yantaras Tuareg. Beautiful dark brown people even today.
They were also the Bardoa or Bardama of Western Maghreb and of Libya.
As I have started many times on this forum the term "white" or "abyad" was commonly used in Arabic for brown beautiful complexioned people NOT EUROPEAN- looking people who were called "red or "Ahmar" in color.
"white" Lamtuna or Auelimmidden and Yantaras Tuareg occupy Niger
Lol! - i am with the early Libyan anthropologists who considered the white Ethiopians Africans who painted themselves white.
Jebel Nafusa Berber woman
Tariq bin Ziyaad was a Nafzawa Berber like this woman. If he was blond that would be surprising since Zenata were dark brown (Tuareg - Iforas and near black (Zuwagha, Jarawa) and not TALL BLONDS like the Slavic slaves of the Arabs
Your tuaregs are obviously mixed. Again the average genotype for Berbers is a mixed one with Eurasian portion being OLDER!
Oh so the Leuco Aetiopians painetd themselves White?? Lol!
Actually that is just what the Gsell or Gautier supposed. And I agree. The blacks who painted themselves white. What better way to describe them.
Yes the Tuaregs are mixed with whites while their vassal castes are also mixed with whites and blacks.
Eurasians are not Tuaregs just like Brace said "Cromagnons are not us..."
YOU LOSE!lol!
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by KoKaKoLa: Dana..aka the female Clyde. You're a clown.*After you [fail] attempt to claim the Banu Sulaym as your own, you claim now the Berbers. Most of the berbers have nothing to do with vandals and the Turks The eurasian ancestors of the berbers have been in North Africa since more than 30,000 years.. What a clown.
your clown and nut that was cracked long ago by me. You will never be Berber. So get over it.
Last time i checked, i have berber ancestries , i eat berber food, im from a berber arabized country and my family name is Berber.
Keep entertaining me, Clown.
You failed with the Banu Sulaym (whom i also descend from) and now you fail with the Berbers.
lets enumerate Dana "Darwisha" theories. _The Banu Sulaym were blacks _The Berbers were blacks before the 17th century. _Most of the modern berbers are of Vandal and Turkish ancestries.
You probably dont want to see the genepool of the modern berbers, right?
Giiirl
Congradulations child of a hundred white slave women you are now officially Arab!
Why call that my theory when the Kurds and Iraqis knew what Sulaym looked like white woman.
: “These tribes take slaves from among the Ashban to mind their flocks and for irrigation work, manual labor, and domestic service, and their concubines from among the Byzantines; and yet it takes less than three generations for the Harra to give them all the complexion of the Banu Sulaim” 9th century Al Jahiz of Iraq
BOOOO YAH!
Blah Blah Blah.. Clown. Im the living proof of what you dislike the most. Im here to debunk all your fantasies.Clown.
Ps: i dont have any "bizantine" ancestry. You clyded that **** up!
Posts: 558 | From: forum | Registered: Jul 2011
| IP: Logged |
You don't have any business posting black pictures on this forum KOLA NUT. If you are Beja ... that would be a real laugh.
‘The Arabs used to take pride in their brown and black complexion (al-sumra wa al-sawd) and they had a distaste for a white and fair complexion (al-humra wa al-shaqra), and they used to say that such was the complexion of the non-Arabs.’[apud Ibn Abi al Hadid, Sharh nahj al-balaghah, V:56]
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
You don't have any business posting black pictures on this forum KOLA NUT. If you are Beja ... that would be a real laugh.
‘The Arabs used to take pride in their brown and black complexion (al-sumra wa al-sawd) and they had a distaste for a white and fair complexion (al-humra wa al-shaqra), and they used to say that such was the complexion of the non-Arabs.’[apud Ibn Abi al Hadid, Sharh nahj al-balaghah, V:56]
Yeah im Beja too, which im proud of. The mummy=Not black.
Posts: 558 | From: forum | Registered: Jul 2011
| IP: Logged |
posted
LOL, Typical Hypocrite, the Tauregs are mixed but the Lighter Arab Berbers are not mixed and Isolated.
No matter what or who is older the Berbers originate From east African populations..
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
"We conclude that the origins and maternal diversity of Berber populations are old and complex, and these communities bear genetic characteristics resulting from various events of gene flow with surrounding and migrating populations."
"The Berber tribes were far removed from each other and this was one reason why Morocco was often invaded".....
Traveling spirit masters: Moroccan Gnawa trance and music in the global marketplace.
By Deborah Anne Kapchan
Wesleyan University Press, 2007, page 19.
"not all of the black african population are gnawa."
Frigi et al.
Our results reveal that Berber speakers have a foundational biogeographic root in Africa and that deep African lineages have continued to evolve in supra- Saharan Africa.
The Leuko-Ethiopians topic debunked already for the 2nd time..
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
The So called LeukoEthiopians debunked..
PHny, Mela and Ptolemy all refer to the Leucaethiopes, but they give no description of the people thus designated. Pliny in his Lib. v. cap. 8, Hist. Natur. writes : Interiori autem ambitu Africae ad meridiem versus superque Gaetulos, inter- venientibus desertis, primi omnium Libyaegyptii, deinde Leucaethiopes habitant.
Pomponius Mela, Be situ orbis, Lib. i. cap. 4, is somewhat more explicit : At super ea quae Libyco mari abluuntur, Libyes Aegypti sunt, et Leucoaethiopes, et natio frequens multiplexque Gaetuli. For Mela the Leucaethiopes appear to be between the Troglodytes and the Nile, scarcely in Western Africa.
Agathemenos retires again behind those convenient intervening deserts, and merely says that west of Egypt are situated among other nations the Aeu/cat^toTj-es. De geographia, Lib. ii. cap. 5
quote:Originally posted by melchior7: [QB] Your tuaregs are obviously mixed. Again the average genotype for Berbers is a mixed one with Eurasian portion being OLDER!
Oh so the Leuco Aetiopians painetd themselves White?? Lol!
Posts: 8805 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by KoKaKoLa: Dana..aka the female Clyde. You're a clown.*After you [fail] attempt to claim the Banu Sulaym as your own, you claim now the Berbers. Most of the berbers have nothing to do with vandals and the Turks The eurasian ancestors of the berbers have been in North Africa since more than 30,000 years.. What a clown.
your clown and nut that was cracked long ago by me. You will never be Berber. So get over it.
Last time i checked, i have berber ancestries , i eat berber food, im from a berber arabized country and my family name is Berber.
Keep entertaining me, Clown.
You failed with the Banu Sulaym (whom i also descend from) and now you fail with the Berbers.
lets enumerate Dana "Darwisha" theories. _The Banu Sulaym were blacks _The Berbers were blacks before the 17th century. _Most of the modern berbers are of Vandal and Turkish ancestries.
You probably dont want to see the genepool of the modern berbers, right?
Giiirl
Congradulations child of a hundred white slave women you are now officially Arab!
Why call that my theory when the Kurds and Iraqis knew what Sulaym looked like white woman.
: “These tribes take slaves from among the Ashban to mind their flocks and for irrigation work, manual labor, and domestic service, and their concubines from among the Byzantines; and yet it takes less than three generations for the Harra to give them all the complexion of the Banu Sulaim” 9th century Al Jahiz of Iraq
BOOOO YAH!
Blah Blah Blah.. Clown. Im the living proof of what you dislike the most. Im here to debunk all your fantasies.Clown.
Ps: i dont have any "bizantine" ancestry. You clyded that **** up!
Then you are definitely black, NUT. Congratulations!
"‘The Arabs used to take pride in their brown and black complexion (al-sumra wa al-sawd) and they had a distaste for a white and fair complexion (al-humra wa al-shaqra), and they used to say that such was the complexion of the non-Arabs.’"[apud Ibn Abi al Hadid, Sharh nahj al-balaghah, V:56] 10th century
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by melchior7: Do you think that the Vandals and others ever outnumbered your Berber Blacks??
Of course they did. Many of these areas had little to no human settlement in most of these regions until people came in from out of Africa. The is no historical record showing otherwise
Indigenous nomadic Africans who passed through these areas should not be identified as Berbers because Berber is defined by language and the Berber language comes later. They became Berber later
Once the permanent human stettlements were established out of this the Berber language. Then anybody who was part of this Berber culrure and spoke the Berber language is Berber, a composite people.
If the vandals and others outnumbered the Bebers as I believe you are implying, then Bebers today would proably be speaking some type of Germanic language or Greek. Don't you think? The Europeans were sparse and concentrated in a few towns along the coastal areas initially.
Historians believe that the Gnawa population originated from black West Africa - from Senegal to Chad and from Mali in the north to Nigeria in the south. Many of these enslaved people are thought to come from Old Ghana (a kingdom north of Mali) in the 11th through the 13th century. These enslaved groups were called “Gnawa.” There is also some historical evidence that a large enslaved population came from the great market of Djenne in Mali, and that Gnawi is a slight deformation of Jennawi. The term Gnawa is thus a color designation. It historically means “the black people.”..
Not all blacks in Morocco were slaves that originated from black West Africa. Some blacks were actually native to southern Morocco. Some sources suggest that groups of black people were indigenous of the Draa valley. They were sedentary agriculturists. With the advance of the Romans into the Moroccan interior in the 3rd century B.C.E., the Berbers, who inhabited the coastal areas of the Maghreb of North Africa, may have been forced to move towards the south and competed with the blacks inhabitants in the oases of the Draa, entering into an interdependent or clientele relationship with the Blacks, with the Berbers assuming the patron role." http://www.afropop.org/multi/feature/ID/618
If this was a game of chess, you just gave up your queen. But since I know you're a good guy. I'm gonna let you take it back. Posts: 682 | From: East Coast | Registered: May 2011
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by melchior7: Do you think that the Vandals and others ever outnumbered your Berber Blacks??
Of course they did. Many of these areas had little to no human settlement in most of these regions until people came in from out of Africa. The is no historical record showing otherwise
Indigenous nomadic Africans who passed through these areas should not be identified as Berbers because Berber is defined by language and the Berber language comes later. They became Berber later
Once the permanent human stettlements were established out of this the Berber language. Then anybody who was part of this Berber culrure and spoke the Berber language is Berber, a composite people.
If the vandals and others outnumbered the Bebers as I believe you are implying, then Bebers today would proably be speaking some type of Germanic language or Greek. Don't you think? The Europeans were sparse and concentrated in a few towns along the coastal areas initially.
Historians believe that the Gnawa population originated from black West Africa - from Senegal to Chad and from Mali in the north to Nigeria in the south. Many of these enslaved people are thought to come from Old Ghana (a kingdom north of Mali) in the 11th through the 13th century. These enslaved groups were called “Gnawa.” There is also some historical evidence that a large enslaved population came from the great market of Djenne in Mali, and that Gnawi is a slight deformation of Jennawi. The term Gnawa is thus a color designation. It historically means “the black people.”..
Not all blacks in Morocco were slaves that originated from black West Africa. Some blacks were actually native to southern Morocco. Some sources suggest that groups of black people were indigenous of the Draa valley. They were sedentary agriculturists. With the advance of the Romans into the Moroccan interior in the 3rd century B.C.E., the Berbers, who inhabited the coastal areas of the Maghreb of North Africa, may have been forced to move towards the south and competed with the blacks inhabitants in the oases of the Draa, entering into an interdependent or clientele relationship with the Blacks, with the Berbers assuming the patron role." http://www.afropop.org/multi/feature/ID/618
If this was a game of chess, you just gave up your queen. But since I know you're a good guy. I'm gonna let you take it back.
Melchior - why are you trying to pretend or imply that the people of the Draa are mainly Gnawa when in fact they are mainly Berbers of Shluh and Zenata and Sanhadja stock.
Gnawa (Mandinke) are not Berbers. Not every Berber that is dark skinned is a Gnawa.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by melchior7: Do you think that the Vandals and others ever outnumbered your Berber Blacks??
Of course they did. Many of these areas had little to no human settlement in most of these regions until people came in from out of Africa. The is no historical record showing otherwise
Indigenous nomadic Africans who passed through these areas should not be identified as Berbers because Berber is defined by language and the Berber language comes later. They became Berber later
Once the permanent human stettlements were established out of this the Berber language. Then anybody who was part of this Berber culrure and spoke the Berber language is Berber, a composite people.
If the vandals and others outnumbered the Bebers as I believe you are implying, then Bebers today would proably be speaking some type of Germanic language or Greek. Don't you think? The Europeans were sparse and concentrated in a few towns along the coastal areas initially.
Historians believe that the Gnawa population originated from black West Africa - from Senegal to Chad and from Mali in the north to Nigeria in the south. Many of these enslaved people are thought to come from Old Ghana (a kingdom north of Mali) in the 11th through the 13th century. These enslaved groups were called “Gnawa.” There is also some historical evidence that a large enslaved population came from the great market of Djenne in Mali, and that Gnawi is a slight deformation of Jennawi. The term Gnawa is thus a color designation. It historically means “the black people.”..
Not all blacks in Morocco were slaves that originated from black West Africa. Some blacks were actually native to southern Morocco. Some sources suggest that groups of black people were indigenous of the Draa valley. They were sedentary agriculturists. With the advance of the Romans into the Moroccan interior in the 3rd century B.C.E., the Berbers, who inhabited the coastal areas of the Maghreb of North Africa, may have been forced to move towards the south and competed with the blacks inhabitants in the oases of the Draa, entering into an interdependent or clientele relationship with the Blacks, with the Berbers assuming the patron role." http://www.afropop.org/multi/feature/ID/618
If this was a game of chess, you just gave up your queen. But since I know you're a good guy. I'm gonna let you take it back.
"some sources suggest...."
(yes, where are these sources? )
that "some"
I never denied .
However this "some" few are not "most"
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: Gnawa (Mandinke) are not Berbers.
thanks dane
Posts: 42940 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by melchior7: Do you think that the Vandals and others ever outnumbered your Berber Blacks??
Of course they did. Many of these areas had little to no human settlement in most of these regions until people came in from out of Africa. The is no historical record showing otherwise
Indigenous nomadic Africans who passed through these areas should not be identified as Berbers because Berber is defined by language and the Berber language comes later. They became Berber later
Once the permanent human stettlements were established out of this the Berber language. Then anybody who was part of this Berber culrure and spoke the Berber language is Berber, a composite people.
If the vandals and others outnumbered the Bebers as I believe you are implying, then Bebers today would proably be speaking some type of Germanic language or Greek. Don't you think? The Europeans were sparse and concentrated in a few towns along the coastal areas initially.
Historians believe that the Gnawa population originated from black West Africa - from Senegal to Chad and from Mali in the north to Nigeria in the south. Many of these enslaved people are thought to come from Old Ghana (a kingdom north of Mali) in the 11th through the 13th century. These enslaved groups were called “Gnawa.” There is also some historical evidence that a large enslaved population came from the great market of Djenne in Mali, and that Gnawi is a slight deformation of Jennawi. The term Gnawa is thus a color designation. It historically means “the black people.”..
Not all blacks in Morocco were slaves that originated from black West Africa. Some blacks were actually native to southern Morocco. Some sources suggest that groups of black people were indigenous of the Draa valley. They were sedentary agriculturists. With the advance of the Romans into the Moroccan interior in the 3rd century B.C.E., the Berbers, who inhabited the coastal areas of the Maghreb of North Africa, may have been forced to move towards the south and competed with the blacks inhabitants in the oases of the Draa, entering into an interdependent or clientele relationship with the Blacks, with the Berbers assuming the patron role." http://www.afropop.org/multi/feature/ID/618
If this was a game of chess, you just gave up your queen. But since I know you're a good guy. I'm gonna let you take it back.
From where did the slaves come? And what is the paternal genepool of Berbers, from where does this come?
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
YES - REALLY - MELCHIOR. Most Berber tribes including the descendants of the Masmuda, Zanata, Kitama, Sanhaja are still dark brown and near black in color. I am not including people who speak Berber and yet have know tribal affiliation such as many of the EURASIANS of North AFRICA! There is no Berber tribe named Kabyle in ancient records now is there. Unless of course we want to consider them the Greek Cabali meantioned by Herodotus.one of teh reasons we know that a lot of the Berbers did mix with Europeans recently is because of rather large fair skinned tribes like the Ghomara of the northern Atlas who claim descent from a southern Atlas dark brown Masmuda invasion.
CAn't win, can you.
The main reason why any of them would be Black is becuase of the influx of Blacks recruited by the Almoravids from the Mali, Senegal and thereabouts. That's documented. And girlfriend we know about the European slaves and where they went. Many were ransomed and returned to Europe. There were even captured Americans who lived to tell their story. I have yet to hear of large number of slaves taken to Berber villgaes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War.
And if here is something for you to ponder.
"The descendants of black Africans abducted into slavery now live in Mauritania as "black Moors" or haratin and partially still serve the "white Moors", or bidhan, as slaves.
The number of slaves in the country was not known exactly, but is was estimated to be up to 600,000 men, women and children, or 20% of the population [3][4] of 3,069,000 people. Even though slavery is illegal, sociologist Kevin Bales believes that Mauritania is the country with the largest proportion of its population in slavery."
How did this situation come about if the original Moors or Berbers were Blacks?
More..
"From the 3rd to 7th centuries, the migration of Berber tribes from North Africa displaced the Bafours, the original inhabitants of present-day Mauritania and the ancestors of the Soninke. Continued Arab-Berber migration drove indigenous black Africans south to the Senegal River or enslaved them. By 1076, Islamic warrior monks (Almoravid or Al Murabitun) completed the conquest of southern Mauritania, defeating the ancient Ghana empire. Over the next 500 years, Arabs overcame fierce Berber resistance to dominate Mauritania. The Mauritanian Thirty-Year War (1644-74) was the unsuccessful final Berber effort to repel the Maqil Arab invaders led by the Beni Hassan tribe. The descendants of Beni Hassan warriors became the upper stratum of Moorish society. Berbers retained influence by producing the majority of the region's Marabouts -- those who preserve and teach Islamic tradition. Hassaniya, a mainly oral, Berber-influenced Arabic dialect that derives its name from the Beni Hassan tribe, became the dominant language among the largely nomadic population. Aristocrat and servant castes developed, yielding "white" (aristocracy) and "black" Moors (the enslaved indigenous class). " http://www.historyofnations.net/africa/mauritania.html.
Cap'n Marniche...I think your ship is sinking.. Posts: 682 | From: East Coast | Registered: May 2011
| IP: Logged |
You don't have any business posting black pictures on this forum KOLA NUT. If you are Beja ... that would be a real laugh.
‘The Arabs used to take pride in their brown and black complexion (al-sumra wa al-sawd) and they had a distaste for a white and fair complexion (al-humra wa al-shaqra), and they used to say that such was the complexion of the non-Arabs.’[apud Ibn Abi al Hadid, Sharh nahj al-balaghah, V:56]
Yeah im Beja too, which im proud of. The mummy=Not black.
Well since you don't like the word black that is your problem but Beja are black to me, like other Sudanese that are darker than me.
It makes you more of a nut, than I thought you were. LOL!
True BEJA ARE WHITE!
HAPPY!??
HOW'S THAT FOR BEING A CLOWN. lol!
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
You probably dont want to see the genepool of the modern berbers, right?
Hey there "beja-girl", I do. I asked for it, but did not receive response?
Maybe you can summarize the list.
i want THAT clown to do it. Let see how smart she is.
I have waited for it awhile now.
I hear stories of him calling; SOY Keita a pseudo intellectual?
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by KoKaKoLa: Dana..aka the female Clyde. You're a clown.*After you [fail] attempt to claim the Banu Sulaym as your own, you claim now the Berbers. Most of the berbers have nothing to do with vandals and the Turks The eurasian ancestors of the berbers have been in North Africa since more than 30,000 years.. What a clown.
your clown and nut that was cracked long ago by me. You will never be Berber. So get over it.
Last time i checked, i have berber ancestries , i eat berber food, im from a berber arabized country and my family name is Berber.
Keep entertaining me, Clown.
You failed with the Banu Sulaym (whom i also descend from) and now you fail with the Berbers.
lets enumerate Dana "Darwisha" theories. _The Banu Sulaym were blacks _The Berbers were blacks before the 17th century. _Most of the modern berbers are of Vandal and Turkish ancestries.
You probably dont want to see the genepool of the modern berbers, right?
Giiirl
Congradulations child of a hundred white slave women you are now officially Arab!
Why call that my theory when the Kurds and Iraqis knew what Sulaym looked like white woman.
: “These tribes take slaves from among the Ashban to mind their flocks and for irrigation work, manual labor, and domestic service, and their concubines from among the Byzantines; and yet it takes less than three generations for the Harra to give them all the complexion of the Banu Sulaim” 9th century Al Jahiz of Iraq
BOOOO YAH!
Blah Blah Blah.. Clown. Im the living proof of what you dislike the most. Im here to debunk all your fantasies.Clown.
Ps: i dont have any "bizantine" ancestry. You clyded that **** up!
Then you are definitely black, NUT. Congratulations!
"‘The Arabs used to take pride in their brown and black complexion (al-sumra wa al-sawd) and they had a distaste for a white and fair complexion (al-humra wa al-shaqra), and they used to say that such was the complexion of the non-Arabs.’"[apud Ibn Abi al Hadid, Sharh nahj al-balaghah, V:56] 10th century
if my arabo-berber ancestors were blacks, my family would be like 100% pure blacks LMAO.. which is NOT the case. Once again, you fail. Posts: 558 | From: forum | Registered: Jul 2011
| IP: Logged |
posted
Nothing in this post dismisses anything i my post. The People in my pics wearing blue are Berbers not Gawna, the people being interviewed in the videos are Berbers not Gawna.
from Your own source..
quote:Originally posted by melchior7:
Not all blacks in Morocco were slaves that originated from black West Africa. Some blacks were actually native to southern Morocco. Some sources suggest that groups of black people were indigenous of the Draa valley.
As I said you can always count on you to attribute any blackness in North Africans to Slavery..
Posts: 8805 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by KoKaKoLa: Dana..aka the female Clyde. You're a clown.*After you [fail] attempt to claim the Banu Sulaym as your own, you claim now the Berbers. Most of the berbers have nothing to do with vandals and the Turks The eurasian ancestors of the berbers have been in North Africa since more than 30,000 years.. What a clown.
your clown and nut that was cracked long ago by me. You will never be Berber. So get over it.
Last time i checked, i have berber ancestries , i eat berber food, im from a berber arabized country and my family name is Berber.
Keep entertaining me, Clown.
You failed with the Banu Sulaym (whom i also descend from) and now you fail with the Berbers.
lets enumerate Dana "Darwisha" theories. _The Banu Sulaym were blacks _The Berbers were blacks before the 17th century. _Most of the modern berbers are of Vandal and Turkish ancestries.
You probably dont want to see the genepool of the modern berbers, right?
Giiirl
Congradulations child of a hundred white slave women you are now officially Arab!
Why call that my theory when the Kurds and Iraqis knew what Sulaym looked like white woman.
: “These tribes take slaves from among the Ashban to mind their flocks and for irrigation work, manual labor, and domestic service, and their concubines from among the Byzantines; and yet it takes less than three generations for the Harra to give them all the complexion of the Banu Sulaim” 9th century Al Jahiz of Iraq
BOOOO YAH!
Blah Blah Blah.. Clown. Im the living proof of what you dislike the most. Im here to debunk all your fantasies.Clown.
Ps: i dont have any "bizantine" ancestry. You clyded that **** up!
Then you are definitely black, NUT. Congratulations!
"‘The Arabs used to take pride in their brown and black complexion (al-sumra wa al-sawd) and they had a distaste for a white and fair complexion (al-humra wa al-shaqra), and they used to say that such was the complexion of the non-Arabs.’"[apud Ibn Abi al Hadid, Sharh nahj al-balaghah, V:56] 10th century
if my arabo-berber ancestors were blacks, my family would be like 100% pure blacks LMAO.. which is NOT the case. Once again, you fail.
Look here you little black nut there are no people I am talking about that are purely black. That is just your Sudanese Middle Eastern nutty talk.
BTW those Syrian, Turkish and Iranian descended people in the Near East calling themselves Arab call u ABID.
NOW WHO IS THE CLOWN!
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: THE BERBER LANGUAGES ARE OF EUROPEAN ORIGIN
The influence of European languages on the Berber languages and the grammar of the Berber languages indicate that the Berbers are probably of European, especially Vandal origin. Berber Languages
The Berber, or Amazigh, people live in Northern Africa throughout the Mediterranean coast, the Sahara desert and Sahel which used to be a Berber world before the arrival of Arabs. Today, there are large groups of Berber people in Morocco and Algeria, important communitites in Mali, Niger and Libya, and smaller groups in Tunis, Mauritania, Burkina-Faso and Egypt. The Tuareg of the desert also belong to the Berber group. The Berber people speak 26 closely related languages.
Consonants
Berber consonants include:
glottalized consonants, so called because the space between the vocal cords (glottis) is constricted during their pronunciation; implosive consonants produced with the air sucked inward; ejective consonants produced with the air "ejected" or forced out; geminate (doubled) consonants produced by holding them in position longer than for their single counterparts. Click here to listen to a Berber song recorded in Morocco.
Grammar
Noun phrase
Berber nouns have two cases. One case is used for the subject of intransitive verbs, while the other is used for the subject of transitive verbs and objects of prepositions. There are two genders: masculine and feminine. The plural of nouns has a masculine and a feminine form.
Verb phrase
Verbs are marked for tense and aspect. The perfective of the verb is formed by reduplication of the second consonant of the root, or by the prefix -tt-.
Vocabulary
Most of the vocabulary is Berber in origin with borrowings from Latin, Arabic, French, Spanish, and other sub-Saharan languages. There is generally little or no intelligibility between the dialects. The Berber languages as pointed out by numerous authors is full of vocabulary from other languages. Many Berbers may be descendants of the Vandels (Germanic) speaking people who ruled North Africa and Spain for 400 years. Commenting on this reality Diop in The African Origin of Civilization noted that: “Careful search reveals that German feminine nouns end in t and st. Should we consider that Berbers were influenced by Germans or the referse? This hypothesis could not be rejected a priori, for German tribes in the fifth century overran North Africa vi Spain, and established an empire that they ruled for 400 years….Furthermore, the plural of 50 percent of Berber nouns is formed by adding en, as is the case with feminine nouns in German, while 40 percent form their plural in a, like neuter nouns in Latin.
Since we know the Vandals conquered the country from the Romans, why should we not be more inclined to seek explanations for the Berbers in the direction, both linguistically and in physical appearance: blond hair, blue eyes, etc? But no! Disregarding all these facts, historians decree that there was no Vandal influence and that it would be impossible to attribute anything in Barbary to their occupation” (p.69).
quote:Originally posted by KoKaKoLa: Dana..aka the female Clyde. You're a clown.*After you [fail] attempt to claim the Banu Sulaym as your own, you claim now the Berbers. Most of the berbers have nothing to do with vandals and the Turks The eurasian ancestors of the berbers have been in North Africa since more than 30,000 years.. What a clown.
your clown and nut that was cracked long ago by me. You will never be Berber. So get over it.
Last time i checked, i have berber ancestries , i eat berber food, im from a berber arabized country and my family name is Berber.
Keep entertaining me, Clown.
You failed with the Banu Sulaym (whom i also descend from) and now you fail with the Berbers.
lets enumerate Dana "Darwisha" theories. _The Banu Sulaym were blacks _The Berbers were blacks before the 17th century. _Most of the modern berbers are of Vandal and Turkish ancestries.
You probably dont want to see the genepool of the modern berbers, right?
Giiirl
Congradulations child of a hundred white slave women you are now officially Arab!
Why call that my theory when the Kurds and Iraqis knew what Sulaym looked like white woman.
: “These tribes take slaves from among the Ashban to mind their flocks and for irrigation work, manual labor, and domestic service, and their concubines from among the Byzantines; and yet it takes less than three generations for the Harra to give them all the complexion of the Banu Sulaim” 9th century Al Jahiz of Iraq
BOOOO YAH!
Blah Blah Blah.. Clown. Im the living proof of what you dislike the most. Im here to debunk all your fantasies.Clown.
Ps: i dont have any "bizantine" ancestry. You clyded that **** up!
Then you are definitely black, NUT. Congratulations!
"‘The Arabs used to take pride in their brown and black complexion (al-sumra wa al-sawd) and they had a distaste for a white and fair complexion (al-humra wa al-shaqra), and they used to say that such was the complexion of the non-Arabs.’"[apud Ibn Abi al Hadid, Sharh nahj al-balaghah, V:56] 10th century
if my arabo-berber ancestors were blacks, my family would be like 100% pure blacks LMAO.. which is NOT the case. Once again, you fail.
What do you mean by "100% pure black"?
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
OLUMBUS, Ohio – A new study suggests that a million or more European Christians were enslaved by Muslims in North Africa between 1530 and 1780 – a far greater number than had ever been estimated before. Robert Davis
In a new book, Robert Davis, professor of history at Ohio State University, developed a unique methodology to calculate the number of white Christians who were enslaved along Africa’s Barbary Coast, arriving at much higher slave population estimates than any previous studies had found.
Most other accounts of slavery along the Barbary coast didn’t try to estimate the number of slaves, or only looked at the number of slaves in particular cities, Davis said. Most previously estimated slave counts have thus tended to be in the thousands, or at most in the tens of thousands. Davis, by contrast, has calculated that between 1 million and 1.25 million European Christians were captured and forced to work in North Africa from the 16th to 18th centuries.
Davis’s new estimates appear in the book Christian Slaves, Muslim Masters: White Slavery in the Mediterranean, the Barbary Coast, and Italy, 1500-1800 (Palgrave Macmillan). “Enslavement was a very real possibility for anyone who traveled in the Mediterranean, or who lived along the shores in places like Italy, France, Spain and Portugal, and even as far north as England and Iceland.”
“Much of what has been written gives the impression that there were not many slaves and minimizes the impact that slavery had on Europe,” Davis said. “Most accounts only look at slavery in one place, or only for a short period of time. But when you take a broader, longer view, the massive scope of this slavery and its powerful impact become clear.”
Davis said it is useful to compare this Mediterranean slavery to the Atlantic slave trade that brought black Africans to the Americas. Over the course of four centuries, the Atlantic slave trade was much larger – about 10 to 12 million black Africans were brought to the Americas. But from 1500 to 1650, when trans-Atlantic slaving was still in its infancy, more white Christian slaves were probably taken to Barbary than black African slaves to the Americas, according to Davis.
“One of the things that both the public and many scholars have tended to take as given is that slavery was always racial in nature – that only blacks have been slaves. But that is not true,” Davis said. “We cannot think of slavery as something that only white people did to black people.”
During the time period Davis studied, it was religion and ethnicity, as much as race, that determined who became slaves.
“Enslavement was a very real possibility for anyone who traveled in the Mediterranean, or who lived along the shores in places like Italy, France, Spain and Portugal, and even as far north as England and Iceland,” he said.
Pirates (called corsairs) from cities along the Barbary Coast in north Africa – cities such as Tunis and Algiers – would raid ships in the Mediterranean and Atlantic, as well as seaside villages to capture men, women and children. The impact of these attacks were devastating – France, England, and Spain each lost thousands of ships, and long stretches of the Spanish and Italian coasts were almost completely abandoned by their inhabitants. At its peak, the destruction and depopulation of some areas probably exceeded what European slavers would later inflict on the African interior.
Although hundreds of thousands of Christian slaves were taken from Mediterranean countries, Davis noted, the effects of Muslim slave raids was felt much further away: it appears, for example, that through most of the 17th century the English lost at least 400 sailors a year to the slavers.
Even Americans were not immune. For example, one American slave reported that 130 other American seamen had been enslaved by the Algerians in the Mediterranean and Atlantic just between 1785 and 1793.
Davis said the vast scope of slavery in North Africa has been ignored and minimized, in large part because it is on no one’s agenda to discuss what happened.
The enslavement of Europeans doesn’t fit the general theme of European world conquest and colonialism that is central to scholarship on the early modern era, he said. Many of the countries that were victims of slavery, such as France and Spain, would later conquer and colonize the areas of North Africa where their citizens were once held as slaves. Maybe because of this history, Western scholars have thought of the Europeans primarily as “evil colonialists” and not as the victims they sometimes were, Davis said.
Davis said another reason that Mediterranean slavery has been ignored or minimized has been that there have not been good estimates of the total number of people enslaved. People of the time – both Europeans and the Barbary Coast slave owners – did not keep detailed, trustworthy records of the number of slaves. In contrast, there are extensive records that document the number of Africans brought to the Americas as slaves.
So Davis developed a new methodology to come up with reasonable estimates of the number of slaves along the Barbary Coast. Davis found the best records available indicating how many slaves were at a particular location at a single time. He then estimated how many new slaves it would take to replace slaves as they died, escaped or were ransomed.
“The only way I could come up with hard numbers is to turn the whole problem upside down – figure out how many slaves they would have to capture to maintain a certain level,” he said. “It is not the best way to make population estimates, but it is the only way with the limited records available.”
Putting together such sources of attrition as deaths, escapes, ransomings, and conversions, Davis calculated that about one-fourth of slaves had to be replaced each year to keep the slave population stable, as it apparently was between 1580 and 1680. That meant about 8,500 new slaves had to be captured each year. Overall, this suggests nearly a million slaves would have been taken captive during this period. Using the same methodology, Davis has estimated as many as 475,000 additional slaves were taken in the previous and following centuries.
The result is that between 1530 and 1780 there were almost certainly 1 million and quite possibly as many as 1.25 million white, European Christians enslaved by the Muslims of the Barbary Coast.
Davis said his research into the treatment of these slaves suggests that, for most of them, their lives were every bit as difficult as that of slaves in America.
“As far as daily living conditions, the Mediterranean slaves certainly didn’t have it better,” he said.
While African slaves did grueling labor on sugar and cotton plantations in the Americas, European Christian slaves were often worked just as hard and as lethally – in quarries, in heavy construction, and above all rowing the corsair galleys themselves.
Davis said his findings suggest that this invisible slavery of European Christians deserves more attention from scholars.
“We have lost the sense of how large enslavement could loom for those who lived around the Mediterranean and the threat they were under,” he said. “Slaves were still slaves, whether they are black or white, and whether they suffered in America or North Africa
Im have 100% respect for this man Davis for speaking the Truth, facts that the historical academia tries to ignore. The History books should reflect this. It pisses me off when I read about Nubia or West African kingdoms they always talk about the main export was Slaves and Gold.
It also helps explain this..
^^^ Euro-Arab Mongrels of the result of slavery..
The Slavers...
Striking resemblence to this Moroccan from 1800's
Posts: 8805 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: THE BERBER LANGUAGES ARE OF EUROPEAN ORIGIN
The influence of European languages on the Berber languages and the grammar of the Berber languages indicate that the Berbers are probably of European, especially Vandal origin. Berber Languages
The Berber, or Amazigh, people live in Northern Africa throughout the Mediterranean coast, the Sahara desert and Sahel which used to be a Berber world before the arrival of Arabs. Today, there are large groups of Berber people in Morocco and Algeria, important communitites in Mali, Niger and Libya, and smaller groups in Tunis, Mauritania, Burkina-Faso and Egypt. The Tuareg of the desert also belong to the Berber group. The Berber people speak 26 closely related languages.
Consonants
Berber consonants include:
glottalized consonants, so called because the space between the vocal cords (glottis) is constricted during their pronunciation; implosive consonants produced with the air sucked inward; ejective consonants produced with the air "ejected" or forced out; geminate (doubled) consonants produced by holding them in position longer than for their single counterparts. Click here to listen to a Berber song recorded in Morocco.
Grammar
Noun phrase
Berber nouns have two cases. One case is used for the subject of intransitive verbs, while the other is used for the subject of transitive verbs and objects of prepositions. There are two genders: masculine and feminine. The plural of nouns has a masculine and a feminine form.
Verb phrase
Verbs are marked for tense and aspect. The perfective of the verb is formed by reduplication of the second consonant of the root, or by the prefix -tt-.
Vocabulary
Most of the vocabulary is Berber in origin with borrowings from Latin, Arabic, French, Spanish, and other sub-Saharan languages. There is generally little or no intelligibility between the dialects. The Berber languages as pointed out by numerous authors is full of vocabulary from other languages. Many Berbers may be descendants of the Vandels (Germanic) speaking people who ruled North Africa and Spain for 400 years. Commenting on this reality Diop in The African Origin of Civilization noted that: “Careful search reveals that German feminine nouns end in t and st. Should we consider that Berbers were influenced by Germans or the referse? This hypothesis could not be rejected a priori, for German tribes in the fifth century overran North Africa vi Spain, and established an empire that they ruled for 400 years….Furthermore, the plural of 50 percent of Berber nouns is formed by adding en, as is the case with feminine nouns in German, while 40 percent form their plural in a, like neuter nouns in Latin.
Since we know the Vandals conquered the country from the Romans, why should we not be more inclined to seek explanations for the Berbers in the direction, both linguistically and in physical appearance: blond hair, blue eyes, etc? But no! Disregarding all these facts, historians decree that there was no Vandal influence and that it would be impossible to attribute anything in Barbary to their occupation” (p.69).
..
In a 1902 book entitled, The Moors: A Comprehensive Description, in a chapter entitled "Slavery among the Moors" we read the following concerning the importation of women through Algiers and into Morocco: "Another way in which the Europeans have been frequently outwitted is by the importation of Circassian and other slaves and eunuchs from Turkey via braltar or Algiers in foreign vessels, usually entered as members of the family of their master… This is often the case with white concubines, who are in great demand, even if natives. Consequently white girls are frequently kidnapped, and in time of war openly sold....(Meakin, 1902, p. 137-138).
The white slave trade in North AFrica and the Maghreb continued well into the 20th century as indicated by the writings of eyewitnesses unlike what Melchior says.
It stopped in 1830? Nope - that's more wishful thinking.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
BTW, that Photo is of a Portugese man...LOL. But lets keep it a secret...Im sure no Black African ever crossed into Spain only Blond Eurasians.
Seriously we know that folks from North Africa did cross into Europe as we find evidence of Capsian culture in Spain Sicily. Likewise there was European megalitic culture on the North Afican coast. The thing is the tale of the tape show that coastal North Africa has been populated by Eurasians for at least 25,000 years coming from a back migration out of the Near East.
-------------------- In the vast pasture of life you're bound to step in some truth. Posts: 682 | From: East Coast | Registered: May 2011
| IP: Logged |
You don't have any business posting black pictures on this forum KOLA NUT. If you are Beja ... that would be a real laugh.
‘The Arabs used to take pride in their brown and black complexion (al-sumra wa al-sawd) and they had a distaste for a white and fair complexion (al-humra wa al-shaqra), and they used to say that such was the complexion of the non-Arabs.’[apud Ibn Abi al Hadid, Sharh nahj al-balaghah, V:56]
Yeah im Beja too, which im proud of. The mummy=Not black.
Well since you don't like the word black that is your problem but Beja are black to me, like other Sudanese that are darker than me.
It makes you more of a nut, than I thought you were. LOL!
True BEJA ARE WHITE!
HAPPY!??
HOW'S THAT FOR BEING A CLOWN. lol!
The mummy i showed is a berber, not a Beja, clown.
Posts: 558 | From: forum | Registered: Jul 2011
| IP: Logged |
So your anscentors moved to the Western part, from Northeast?
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
BTW, that Photo is of a Portugese man...LOL. But lets keep it a secret...Im sure no Black African ever crossed into Spain only Blond Eurasians.
Seriously we know that folks from North Africa did cross into Europe as we find evidence of Capsian culture in Spain Sicily. Likewise there was European megalitic culture on the North Afican coast. The thing is the tale of the tape show that coastal North Africa has been populated by Eurasians for at least 25,000 years coming from a back migration out of the Near East.
MORE wishful thinking. In fact it was the other way around.
Black people of Europe came back.
Spanish stone age rock art
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by melchior7: Do you think that the Vandals and others ever outnumbered your Berber Blacks??
Of course they did. Many of these areas had little to no human settlement in most of these regions until people came in from out of Africa. The is no historical record showing otherwise
Indigenous nomadic Africans who passed through these areas should not be identified as Berbers because Berber is defined by language and the Berber language comes later. They became Berber later
Once the permanent human stettlements were established out of this the Berber language. Then anybody who was part of this Berber culrure and spoke the Berber language is Berber, a composite people.
If the vandals and others outnumbered the Bebers as I believe you are implying, then Bebers today would proably be speaking some type of Germanic language or Greek. Don't you think? The Europeans were sparse and concentrated in a few towns along the coastal areas initially.
Historians believe that the Gnawa population originated from black West Africa - from Senegal to Chad and from Mali in the north to Nigeria in the south. Many of these enslaved people are thought to come from Old Ghana (a kingdom north of Mali) in the 11th through the 13th century. These enslaved groups were called “Gnawa.” There is also some historical evidence that a large enslaved population came from the great market of Djenne in Mali, and that Gnawi is a slight deformation of Jennawi. The term Gnawa is thus a color designation. It historically means “the black people.”..
Not all blacks in Morocco were slaves that originated from black West Africa. Some blacks were actually native to southern Morocco. Some sources suggest that groups of black people were indigenous of the Draa valley. They were sedentary agriculturists. With the advance of the Romans into the Moroccan interior in the 3rd century B.C.E., the Berbers, who inhabited the coastal areas of the Maghreb of North Africa, may have been forced to move towards the south and competed with the blacks inhabitants in the oases of the Draa, entering into an interdependent or clientele relationship with the Blacks, with the Berbers assuming the patron role." http://www.afropop.org/multi/feature/ID/618
If this was a game of chess, you just gave up your queen. But since I know you're a good guy. I'm gonna let you take it back.
Melchior - why are you trying to pretend or imply that the people of the Draa are mainly Gnawa when in fact they are mainly Berbers of Shluh and Zenata and Sanhadja stock.
Gnawa (Mandinke) are not Berbers. Not every Berber that is dark skinned is a Gnawa.
No you didn't understand. The implication is that most Blacks in Morocco are Gnawa or Harratin. The few indigenous Blacks are from the Draa valley and are not Gnawa.But they have been Berberized. I hope Jari reads this too.
Anyway I got to hit it and quit. I'll be back in the mornin' Posts: 682 | From: East Coast | Registered: May 2011
| IP: Logged |
Topic Closed
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
[/QB][/QUOTE]
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic