posted
As if one can tell the race of a person off a stylistic un colored bust. I guess after Al-takruri bitch slapped your arse on the Etymology of Moor you are becoming dilerious.
Bust of Septimius Serverus..
Art work depicting Skin Tone/Phenotype of Septimius
Mind you Septimius was a Mulatto half Italian Half Berber/Moor.
quote:Originally posted by melchior7: [b]
Please tell me why this Berber king Juba II is not depcited as Black?
quote:Originally posted by melchior7:
Next..
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: [QB] All this Ranting and Raving wont save you from..
1) the etymology of the Word Moor..
2) The Origin of the Berber Language...
3) The Presence of Blacks in North Africa and the fact of Black Berbers..
More Art work...
^^^^ you do realize this crude mosiac art proves absolutely nothing . The above mosiacs look like possibly Mediterranaean or Middle Eastern non-African types but might actually be Tuareg looking types
Here the mosaic art is ambigous and I don't see why people keep posting this as if it clears something up. The above women mosiac could easily be people who look like this:
posted
The fact is that people like the Moroccan female are considered black as well.
The term Aswadi is used to describe them.
Also a lot of the time Arubans vice versa Moroccans are getting mixed up.
For Egypt, some one of dark complexion could be mistaken for native Egyptian as well, depending on facial features.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ LOL That depends on how "black". We know that African Americans of a certain complexion especially light ones get mistaken for native Egyptians in Egypt. It's only those that are really dark or very black that are easily spotted as foreigners and subject to discrimination. The same is true in other North African countries like Morocco.
Of course the reason is quite obvious-- because most North Africans especially along the coast are mixed.
Racial political definitions of black are the opposite in Africa, where any light hue makes one non-black.
This typical Moroccan woman for example would be labeled 'black' in America and in much of Europe but not in her country of origin.
Similarly Halle Berry could blend right in with the 'non-black' locals in Morocco.
^ Both women would be considered 'black' in the West including the Moroccan on the right, but the Moroccan would not be considered 'black' in her home country. On the contrary, the darker more pristine black woman on the left would be discriminated against as a foreign 'black' person in Morocco.
Modern Moroccans mixed ancestry is common knowledge to everyone but willful ignoramuses like yourself, but the question is was such the case a thousand years ago or two thousand years ago?? Have you forgotten the very topic of this thread?-- Caucasian Berber tribes? Still waiting for any one before the 16th century
Yesterday, at the Dutch talent show, The Voice Of Holland.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol: [QB] The fact is that people like the Moroccan female are considered black as well.
The term Aswadi is used to describe them.
Also a lot of the time Arubans vice versa Moroccans are getting mixed up.
For Egypt, some one of dark complexion could be mistaken for native Egyptian as well, depending on facial features.
"Black" is a term with no hard definition. It is defined by different people differently. probably the most appropriate people to define them would be them. A lot of the Western world see people as "Black" "white" and other, perhaps "Asian"
In earlier time periods there weren't these primary racial classifications. people identied themselves by nationality rather than color of skin.
For example many Arabs would not call themselves black or white. They would not call themselves mulatto either. It's an outdated term that also has a derogatory tone for some people. Halle Berry doesn't call herself that, or Barack Obama or Tiger Woods. People try to pressure them to choose for politicla reasons
I would imagine these people would prefer to have lived in an earlier time period when people weren't identified so strongly by skin color.
Posts: 42922 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol: [QB] The fact is that people like the Moroccan female are considered black as well.
The term Aswadi is used to describe them.
Also a lot of the time Arubans vice versa Moroccans are getting mixed up.
For Egypt, some one of dark complexion could be mistaken for native Egyptian as well, depending on facial features.
"Black" is a term with no hard definition. It is defined by different people differently. probably the most appropriate people to define them would be them. A lot of the Western world see people as "Black" "white" and other, perhaps "Asian"
In earlier time periods there weren't these primary racial classifications. people identied themselves by nationality rather than color of skin.
For example many Arabs would not call themselves black or white. They would not call themselves mulatto either. It's an outdated term that also has a derogatory tone for some people. Halle Berry doesn't call herself that, or Barack Obama or Tiger Woods. People try to pressure them to choose for politicla reasons
I would imagine these people would prefer to have lived in an earlier time period when people weren't identified so strongly by skin color.
The term black conjoints with Africa, not with Asia.
Fact is lot of North Africans would consider themselves much like Latin Americans. They see themselves in such" light".
Sorry.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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Set the translator to English -> Greek Insert the word black Insert the word negro Insert the word nigger
Set the translator to Greek -> English Insert the word αράπης
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri:
quote:Originally posted by melchior7:
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ Please explain to us Malconent, how the country Morocco got it's name. What is the etymology of the word Morocco??
From Moro..Mauri.. "mahur" meaning West.
As our DownYard sistren recently said, no matter how many times repeated a lie remains what it is, a lie.
I've proven you wrong on this flat out bullshit etymology before but pushing a blackout agenda I see you refused to learn from a good schooling.
First of all Morocco derives from Marakesh but here's the word on Mauretania of which what's now northern Morocco was a part.
Source: Dictionary of Greek and Roman Geography (1854), MAURETA´NIA
Bottomline, Mauri = blacks per researches of the Eurocentric white man named William Smith, LLD.
Those of you bamboozled by Melchior's bullshit should remember that the blind led by the blind results in both of them laying face flat in a septic drainage ditch somewhere covered in odure.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
^ It astounds me how dumb people are actually willing to be in their great lengths at denying that Moor meant black, and thus the Moors were indeed black people!
Posts: 26246 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
As if one can tell the race of a person off a stylistic un colored bust. I guess after Al-takruri bitch slapped your arse on the Etymology of Moor you are becoming dilerious
All he did was disagree. He has his source I have mine. Moor came from athe Phoenicians.
And those mosaics don't look like Black to me. Sorry
Posts: 682 | From: East Coast | Registered: May 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ LOL That depends on how "black". We know that African Americans of a certain complexion especially light ones get mistaken for native Egyptians in Egypt. It's only those that are really dark or very black that are easily spotted as foreigners and subject to discrimination. The same is true in other North African countries like Morocco.
Of course the reason is quite obvious-- because most North Africans especially along the coast are mixed.
Racial political definitions of black are the opposite in Africa, where any light hue makes one non-black.
This typical Moroccan woman for example would be labeled 'black' in America and in much of Europe but not in her country of origin.
Similarly Halle Berry could blend right in with the 'non-black' locals in Morocco.
^ Both women would be considered 'black' in the West including the Moroccan on the right, but the Moroccan would not be considered 'black' in her home country. On the contrary, the darker more pristine black woman on the left would be discriminated against as a foreign 'black' person in Morocco.
Modern Moroccans mixed ancestry is common knowledge to everyone but willful ignoramuses like yourself, but the question is was such the case a thousand years ago or two thousand years ago?? Have you forgotten the very topic of this thread?-- Caucasian Berber tribes? Still waiting for any one before the 16th century
I totally disagree about the first woman and the lady on the magazine cover on the right. You are totally off your rocker. Do you realize that there are plenty of Arab Americans in the US, Moroccans, Egyptians who look like the first woman and who are not considered Black? What about all the Hispanics? Are they considered Black?? The woman on the magazine cover looks Spanish and not Black at all! Dude your mind seems to be stuck in the 1950's with the one drop rule. That and excessive drug use, I'm sure.
See when you have dumb people like Ms Cathy Hughes here who considers hereself Black.
She has to tell people she is Black or they would never know.
Posts: 682 | From: East Coast | Registered: May 2011
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posted
No Altaruri disproved the Phonecian lie. Your duck, dodging and bobbing to avioid the Etymology for Moor wont change it Etymology.
This is not a simple He has his and I have mine stalemate, Al-Takruri has given credible evidence you have not.
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: No Semitic root m-h-r meaning west else cite the
1 - author, 2 - lexicon, and 3 - page number
in linquistic proof. Same goes for m-g-r.
m-h-r ≠ m-g-r
m-g-r ≠ west
m-`-r-b <= `-r-b meaning dusk[y], crow, Arab, and is obviously the Semitic root ma`arab whence Maghreb pay attention to the final b. No west without it.
quote:Originally posted by melchior7:
All he did was disagree. He has his source I have mine. Moor came from athe Phoenicians.
And those mosaics don't look like Black to me. Sorry
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ LOL That depends on how "black". We know that African Americans of a certain complexion especially light ones get mistaken for native Egyptians in Egypt. It's only those that are really dark or very black that are easily spotted as foreigners and subject to discrimination. The same is true in other North African countries like Morocco.
Of course the reason is quite obvious-- because most North Africans especially along the coast are mixed.
Racial political definitions of black are the opposite in Africa, where any light hue makes one non-black.
This typical Moroccan woman for example would be labeled 'black' in America and in much of Europe but not in her country of origin.
Similarly Halle Berry could blend right in with the 'non-black' locals in Morocco.
^ Both women would be considered 'black' in the West including the Moroccan on the right, but the Moroccan would not be considered 'black' in her home country. On the contrary, the darker more pristine black woman on the left would be discriminated against as a foreign 'black' person in Morocco.
Modern Moroccans mixed ancestry is common knowledge to everyone but willful ignoramuses like yourself, but the question is was such the case a thousand years ago or two thousand years ago?? Have you forgotten the very topic of this thread?-- Caucasian Berber tribes? Still waiting for any one before the 16th century
I totally disagree about the first woman and the lady on the magazine cover on the right. You are totally off your rocker. Do you realize that there are plenty of Arab Americans in the US, Moroccans, Egyptians who look like the first woman and who are not considered Black? What about all the Hispanics? Are they considered Black?? The woman on the magazine cover looks Spanish and not Black at all! Dude your mind seems to be stuck in the 1950's with the one drop rule. That and excessive drug use, I'm sure.
See when you have dumb people like Ms Cathy Hughes here who considers hereself Black.
She has to tell people she is Black or they would never know.
The first woman is considered a Aswadi.
Had I never named her as Moroccan you would have seen her as another mixed black girl.
Which is actually the case, -..."it is important to bear in mind that over the centuries the Maghreb has been a melting-pot of many other ethnic groups and cultures" (By Jamil M. Abun-Nasr, Cambridge University Press, 1987 - page 5.)
The second on the cover, the cover is from a black womens organization. No she doesn't look Spanish, she looks very typical Moroccan. Northwest African and has natural tick curly hear.
These women of African descent are making a statement on that cover. And your opinion doesn't matter nor your dehumanizing tactics. Crazy fascist.
Yet, when someone posts pictures of Negritos, you are the first one in the nazi line to rant and rave yelling: they are not African... black... blah blah...they have nothing to do with Africa...etc...lol
Can't you see your double standards and racist affinities. This is due to the imaginary black father you have.
Northwest Africans are the hybrid negroes you keep ranting about. Alias, go figure!!!
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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m-`-r-b <= `-r-b meaning dusk[y], crow, Arab, and is obviously the Semitic root ma`arab whence Maghreb pay attention to the final b. No west without it.
Sources: Richard S. Tomback A comparative Semitic Lexicon of the Phoenician and Punic Languages Missouri, Montana: Scholars Press, 1978
Francis Brown; S R Driver; Charles A Briggs A Hebrew and English lexicon of the Old Testament Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1906
Samuel Prideaux Tregelles Gesenius' Hebrew and Chaldee Lexicon Grand Rapids: Wm. B. Eerdmans Pub. Co., 1949 [1857]
See also my two sources for mauros posted earlier. Overlook these five at peril of your own ignorance.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by the lyinass who lies even to herself: [Numidian mosaics]
^^^^ you do realize this crude mosiac art proves absolutely nothing . The above mosiacs look like possibly Mediterranaean or Middle Eastern non-African types but might actually be Tuareg looking types.
B|tch, who do you think you're fooling?! LOL
There is nothing "crude" about the mosaics, let alone their color! You do realize Mediterranean is a Sea that borders Africa and thus blacks live along there as well. You do realize that 'Middle East' is a geopolitical area that encompasses southwest Asia which is also right next door to Africa and that region too is inhabited by black people. You do realize that the Tuareg who live in Saharan Africa are predominantly black as well!!
quote:Here the mosaic art is ambigous and I don't see why people keep posting this as if it clears something up. The above women mosiac could easily be people who look like this:
LOL There is nothing "ambiguous" about it! Nice spam of people who share the same features as those in the mural, but how come non of them share their chocolate complexions?!
Posts: 26246 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by malcontent7: I totally disagree about the first woman and the lady on the magazine cover on the right. You are totally off your rocker. Do you realize that there are plenty of Arab Americans in the US, Moroccans, Egyptians who look like the first woman and who are not considered Black? What about all the Hispanics? Are they considered Black?? The woman on the magazine cover looks Spanish and not Black at all! Dude your mind seems to be stuck in the 1950's with the one drop rule. That and excessive drug use, I'm sure.
See when you have dumb people like Ms Cathy Hughes here who considers hereself Black.
She has to tell people she is Black or they would never know.
LOL The only one mentally off is YOU. You are obviously inconsistent in your arguments. Notice, how you ignore Halle Berry. You're right there are many women or people in general in Southwest Asia and especially North Africa who share those features. Has it not occurred to you that this is because they have black ancestry either recent or slightly older?? I don't subscribe to nonsense like the one-drop rule or that one can only be black or white even though that person is both. But you cannot deny the very nature that these people have black African ancestry! Yes even many Latin peoples especially in Caribbean countries like Puerto-Rico, Dominica, and Cuba and in South American countries like Brazil have those same features for the same reasons-- those areas are historically known to have large populations of African descent who have mixed with non-blacks to much extent.
Now we come back to the issue that Berber IS African and thus original Berbers were and still are black! Duh!
Posts: 26246 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
The ploy is obvious. Certain folks want to make Berber an "exclusive" marker of North African identity focusing on those populations with the most Eurasian ancestry. It is not coincidental that much of this originates in the halls of European academia and propaganda versus Africa itself.
But I like to laugh when such clowns try to claim that these Eurasian white folks, how ever they want to call them, got there before blacks.
Posts: 8891 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Doug M: The ploy is obvious. Certain folks want to make Berber an "exclusive" marker of North African identity focusing on those populations with the most Eurasian ancestry. It is not coincidental that much of this originates in the halls of European academia and propaganda versus Africa itself.
But I like to laugh when such clowns try to claim that these Eurasian white folks, how ever they want to call them, got there before blacks.
There is no way to tell who got where first. If we assume that there were some settlements of people who were exclusively African in ancestry it is also reasonable to assume that in other of these regions, many with low quality dry mountainous land, that some of the non Afrcian migrants may have settled into areas where no village had ever been, or to places within large stretches of never inhabited before. Like in North America, the Europeans invaded and colonized a lot of native Indian territory. Yet at the same time there were many areas never previously inhabited land.
Posts: 42922 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: No Altaruri disproved the Phonecian lie. Your duck, dodging and bobbing to avioid the Etymology for Moor wont change it Etymology.
This is not a simple He has his and I have mine stalemate, Al-Takruri has given credible evidence you have not.
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: No Semitic root m-h-r meaning west else cite the
1 - author, 2 - lexicon, and 3 - page number
in linquistic proof. Same goes for m-g-r.
m-h-r ≠ m-g-r
m-g-r ≠ west
m-`-r-b <= `-r-b meaning dusk[y], crow, Arab, and is obviously the Semitic root ma`arab whence Maghreb pay attention to the final b. No west without it.
quote:Originally posted by melchior7:
All he did was disagree. He has his source I have mine. Moor came from athe Phoenicians.
And those mosaics don't look like Black to me. Sorry
You and your buddies are jokes.
"The dictionaries aren't sure what Europe means, but in ancient Greek mythology, Europa was a Phoenician princess who was carried off to the West. In Hebrew, the word, West, is (Ma)Urobh, as in Psalm 103:12. The root of this Hebrew word is EREV, meaning EVENING, and west is the direction of the setting sun of the evening-time. This word appears in Genesis 1:5. In fact, ancient Assyrian monuments speak of the land of EREB, meaning "Setting Sun Land." Likewise, ASU (ASHU) was Assyrian lingo for "land of the rising sun," and of course, the sun rises in the EAST. So we see where we got the modern terms."
Maghrib, ( Arabic: “West”) , also spelled Maghreb, region of North Africa bordering the Mediterranean Sea.
The first woman is considered a Aswadi. Had I never named her as Moroccan you would have seen her as another mixed black girl. Not really. I certainly wouldn't have thought she was a mixed aa. I have seen a lot of North Africans when I lived in Europe. And her facial taits remind me of them.
Also that other post you posted about "White" meaning differnt things to African people other than the light skin as Dana likes to argue, doesn't carry too much weight when we actually find light skin Berber types where others have repoterd. Also the fact that Ibn Batutta's land of the Blacks roughly corresponds to where Black populations currently reside (the southern Saharan being the frontier), in Africa is quite damning. Sorry.
-------------------- In the vast pasture of life you're bound to step in some truth. Posts: 682 | From: East Coast | Registered: May 2011
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posted
You are obviously inconsistent in your arguments. Notice, how you ignore Halle Berry. You're right there are many women or people in general in Southwest Asia and especially North Africa who share those features. Has it not occurred to you that this is because they have black ancestry either recent or slightly older?? I don't subscribe to nonsense like the one-drop rule or that one can only be black or white even though that person is both. But you cannot deny the very nature that these people have black African ancestry! Yes even many Latin peoples especially in Caribbean countries like Puerto-Rico, Dominica, and Cuba and in South American countries like Brazil have those same features for the same reasons-- those areas are historically known to have large populations of African descent who have mixed with non-blacks to much extent.
Now we come back to the issue that Berber IS African and thus original Berbers were and still are black! Duh! Halle Barry looks more Black than the first woman.
And to answer your question. Of course there is some Black mixture in North Africa and the Middle East. But let me ask you this. Why do you believe that Middle Easterners couldn't have those traits on their own? If everyone migrated out of Africa, changes in phenotype likely happened gradually in stages. Thus folks who setteld in the Middle East retained a certian amount of "Africaness" and those that moved furhter North became fairer etc. Thus there is no need to assume that all people who look North African or Middle Eastern are a recent mix of two extremes Black and White. Capeesh?
Posts: 682 | From: East Coast | Registered: May 2011
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And to answer your question. Of course there is some Black mixture in North Africa and the Middle East. But let me ask you this. Why do you believe that Middle Easterners couldn't have those traits on their own? If everyone migrated out of Africa, changes in phenotype likely happened gradually in stages. Thus folks who setteld in the Middle East retained a certian amount of "Africaness" and those that moved furhter North became fairer etc. Thus there is no need to assume that all people who look North African or Middle Eastern are a recent mix of two extremes Black and White. Capeesh? [/QB]
This is a point SOY Keita also made but few people here grasp .
Posts: 42922 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
Still waiting for citations and evidence for the white Eurasian ancestors of the Tuareg or the white Eurasian Aboriginal African population that moved South and created the Tuareg as offspring and taught them how to speak Berber and live a pastoral nomadic lifestyle in the Sahara.
Not to mention those authentic images of North West African Berbers who were part of the Almoravid and Almohade movement.
Posts: 8891 | Registered: May 2005
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posted
^ That is the very crux of the matter that I've been trying to get all you guys to realize.-- That the Malcontent keeps dodging and ducking my query about who inhabited North Africa first. Whites or Blacks?? The answer is obvious to anyone with basic common sense. As for those who lack this...
quote:Originally posted by the lyinass: There is no way to tell who got where first. If we assume that there were some settlements of people who were exclusively African in ancestry it is also reasonable to assume that in other of these regions, many with low quality dry mountainous land, that some of the non African migrants may have settled into areas where no village had ever been, or to places within large stretches of never inhabited before. Like in North America, the Europeans invaded and colonized a lot of native Indian territory. Yet at the same time there were many areas never previously inhabited land.
Of course we have a way of knowing. It's called bio-anthropology and archaeology. Do you expect anyone to believe that whites who evolved in Ice Age Europe settled North Africa before the actual indigenous (black) Africans??
By the way, you want evidence of the first populations to inhabit Africa we discussed in various past threads such as these:
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: No Semitic root m-h-r meaning west else cite the
1 - author, 2 - lexicon, and 3 - page number
in linquistic proof. Same goes for m-g-r.
m-h-r ≠ m-g-r
m-g-r ≠ west
m-`-r-b <= `-r-b meaning dusk[y], crow, Arab, and is obviously the Semitic root ma`arab whence Maghreb pay attention to the final b. No west without it.
quote:Originally posted by melchior7:
All he did was disagree. He has his source I have mine. Moor came from athe Phoenicians.
"In Hebrew, the word, West, is (Ma)Urobh, as in Psalm 103:12. The root of this Hebrew word is EREV, meaning EVENING, and west is the direction of the setting sun of the evening-time. This word appears in Genesis 1:5. In fact, ancient Assyrian monuments speak of the land of EREB, meaning "Setting Sun Land." Likewise, ASU (ASHU) was Assyrian lingo for "land of the rising sun," and of course, the sun rises in the EAST. So we see where we got the modern terms."
Maghrib, ( Arabic: “West”) , also spelled Maghreb, region of North Africa bordering the Mediterranean Sea.
Finding all over the internet does not meet the academics 1 - author, 2 - lexicon, and 3 - page number linquistic proof for Semitic roots m-h-r and m-g-r both meaning west.
I can't stop laughing at your shenanigans, anything put put up an entry in a lexicon by a linguist that shows either mauros derived from mahur or two roots m-h-r (mem-heh-resh) / m-g-r- (mem-gimel-resh).
How does it help you to erringly regurgitate me? "m-`-r-b <= `-r-b meaning dusk[y], crow, Arab, and is obviously the Semitic root ma`arab whence Maghreb pay attention to the final b. No west without it."
The error being a fictional word (Ma)Urobh -- introducing yet a third root, m-w-r-b (mem-waw-resh-beth) -- where in fact it is ma`rab (מַּעֲרָב) at Psalm 103:12.
You're fooling you if you think readers can't see you introduced nothing other than what I posted but erring with this phony word (Ma)Urobh nonexistant in Hebrew/Caananitic.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: No Semitic root m-h-r meaning west else cite the
1 - author, 2 - lexicon, and 3 - page number
in linquistic proof. Same goes for m-g-r.
m-h-r ≠ m-g-r
m-g-r ≠ west
m-`-r-b <= `-r-b meaning dusk[y], crow, Arab, and is obviously the Semitic root ma`arab whence Maghreb pay attention to the final b. No west without it.
quote:Originally posted by melchior7:
All he did was disagree. He has his source I have mine. Moor came from athe Phoenicians.
"In Hebrew, the word, West, is (Ma)Urobh, as in Psalm 103:12. The root of this Hebrew word is EREV, meaning EVENING, and west is the direction of the setting sun of the evening-time. This word appears in Genesis 1:5. In fact, ancient Assyrian monuments speak of the land of EREB, meaning "Setting Sun Land." Likewise, ASU (ASHU) was Assyrian lingo for "land of the rising sun," and of course, the sun rises in the EAST. So we see where we got the modern terms."
Maghrib, ( Arabic: “West”) , also spelled Maghreb, region of North Africa bordering the Mediterranean Sea.
Finding all over the internet does not meet the academics 1 - author, 2 - lexicon, and 3 - page number linquistic proof for Semitic roots m-h-r and m-g-r both meaning west.
I can't stop laughing at your shenanigans, anything put put up an entry in a lexicon by a linguist that shows either mauros derived from mahur or two roots m-h-r (mem-heh-resh) / m-g-r- (mem-gimel-resh).
How does it help you to erringly regurgitate me? "m-`-r-b <= `-r-b meaning dusk[y], crow, Arab, and is obviously the Semitic root ma`arab whence Maghreb pay attention to the final b. No west without it."
The error being a fictional word (Ma)Urobh -- introducing yet a third root, m-w-r-b (mem-waw-resh-beth) -- where in fact it is ma`rab (מַּעֲרָב) at Psalm 103:12.
You're fooling you if you think readers can't see you introduced nothing other than what I posted but erring with this phony word (Ma)Urobh nonexistant in Hebrew/Caananitic.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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The Malcontent obviously didn't realize you have substantial knowledge in Semitic language via Hebrew. Now, let's see what faulty sources or distortions he will try to pull out of his rear end.
Posts: 26246 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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The Malcontent obviously didn't realize you have substantial knowledge in Semitic language via Hebrew. Now, let's see what faulty sources or distortions he will try to pull out of his rear end.
I think I already responded somewhere and said that ma`rab could still be at the root of mauros. I don't know what happened to my post.
And why was the term Mauri applied only to Berber tribe of the extreme WEST?? Posts: 682 | From: East Coast | Registered: May 2011
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The Malcontent obviously didn't realize you have substantial knowledge in Semitic language via Hebrew. Now, let's see what faulty sources or distortions he will try to pull out of his rear end.
I think I already responded somewhere and said that ma`rab could still be at the root of mauros. I don't know what happened to my post.
And why was the term Mauri applied only to Berber tribe of the extreme WEST??
No, also to those of West Africa...
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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The other thing mentioned however was that these groups had two distinct cultures. The darker ones living in the Numidian type magalia for one and dressing like the Arabs. The other ones not.
These distinct cultures in kabylia and the finding by Troll Patrol quoted below is also suggestive of why there are two distinct groups in Kabylia today. It suggests that Vandals have in fact absorbed Berbers as much as vice versa.
"Most of the Vandals went to Saldae (which is called today Béjaïa in the Kabyl land in north Algeria) where they integrated themselves with the Berbers."
We need to clarify we we say darker ones are we talking about swarty Middle Eastern looking types
like this
Or Blacks?
While you can certainly argue about the Kabyle asorbiong Vandals. What about the Chaoui?
Shluh Berbers?
Riffian?
Mozabites?
Isn't it easier to admit that there were light skineed Berbers from early on? Given that light phenotype is recesive, the light skinned folk must have been the majority. What do you suppose the orignal U6 carriers looked like coming out of the Near East?
Interestingly I just found something about the Shawia claiming to be related to the Siwa Berbers. HMmmmmmm! I wonder where that is going to lead us. Why admit something there is no evidence of.
I never ever said anything about there not being light skinned people in ancient North Africa. That doesn't mean those people had anything to do with the original Berber- speaking people called Berbers by the Greeks and by themselves.
The term Berber is a recent adoption by peoples speaking an African Asiatic dialect who represent a composite population, but who more often than not have other or genetic contributions from outside of Africa - RECENTLY! PERIOD!
Berber tribes are only referred to as black up until not long ago. If you want to make descendants of Vandals, Alans, Romans, Turks, Greeks, and Eurasiatic slaves of varied geographical origin into some kind of imaginary "Berber people" indigenous to ancient North Africa I will not agree with it. There is absolutely no historical, genetic and especially anthropological evidence for that being the case.
Berber, like Amazigh, or Arab is a language and/ or nationality today and that is it.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ LOL That depends on how "black". We know that African Americans of a certain complexion especially light ones get mistaken for native Egyptians in Egypt. It's only those that are really dark or very black that are easily spotted as foreigners and subject to discrimination. The same is true in other North African countries like Morocco.
Of course the reason is quite obvious-- because most North Africans especially along the coast are mixed.
Racial political definitions of black are the opposite in Africa, where any light hue makes one non-black.
This typical Moroccan woman for example would be labeled 'black' in America and in much of Europe but not in her country of origin.
Similarly Halle Berry could blend right in with the 'non-black' locals in Morocco.
^ Both women would be considered 'black' in the West including the Moroccan on the right, but the Moroccan would not be considered 'black' in her home country. On the contrary, the darker more pristine black woman on the left would be discriminated against as a foreign 'black' person in Morocco.
Modern Moroccans mixed ancestry is common knowledge to everyone but willful ignoramuses like yourself, but the question is was such the case a thousand years ago or two thousand years ago?? Have you forgotten the very topic of this thread?-- Caucasian Berber tribes? Still waiting for any one before the 16th century
I totally disagree about the first woman and the lady on the magazine cover on the right. You are totally off your rocker. Do you realize that there are plenty of Arab Americans in the US, Moroccans, Egyptians who look like the first woman and who are not considered Black? What about all the Hispanics? Are they considered Black?? The woman on the magazine cover looks Spanish and not Black at all! Dude your mind seems to be stuck in the 1950's with the one drop rule. That and excessive drug use, I'm sure.
See when you have dumb people like Ms Cathy Hughes here who considers hereself Black.
She has to tell people she is Black or they would never know.
Do you think without that blond dyed hair she's going to look any different than millions of other black American women.
Think again.
Here is another who headed CNBC television in America She happens to be similar to my color and a distant relative thru marriage. What do you think would happen if she or I dyed our hair blond?!
That would still make us some black American women with dyed blond hair. Now wouldn't it?
That is too bad if other people around the world are offended by the word black! The only reason they are offended is because they feel themselves to be better than the purer or blacker Africans who haven't mixed with fairer people.
In any case most early Berbers were not this medium brown color but much closer to black. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol: [QB] The fact is that people like the Moroccan female are considered black as well.
The term Aswadi is used to describe them.
Also a lot of the time Arubans vice versa Moroccans are getting mixed up.
For Egypt, some one of dark complexion could be mistaken for native Egyptian as well, depending on facial features.
"Black" is a term with no hard definition. It is defined by different people differently. probably the most appropriate people to define them would be them. A lot of the Western world see people as "Black" "white" and other, perhaps "Asian"
In earlier time periods there weren't these primary racial classifications. people identied themselves by nationality rather than color of skin.
For example many Arabs would not call themselves black or white. They would not call themselves mulatto either. It's an outdated term that also has a derogatory tone for some people. Halle Berry doesn't call herself that, or Barack Obama or Tiger Woods. People try to pressure them to choose for politicla reasons
I would imagine these people would prefer to have lived in an earlier time period when people weren't identified so strongly by skin color.
But one thing is certain, and that is that the ancient Egyptians, Mauri i.e. the Berbers, the Indi i.e. Abyssinians, Blemmyes or Beja and the south Arabians; the north Arabians, Kedarenes, Kushi and Nabit/Nabataeans, and Indus Valley people, were all classified among "the blacks" at one time or another by European and Eurasiatic (Romans, Greeks, white Syrians, Armenians, Khazars, Slavs, Goths Francs) people of the ancient world, and mainly described as woolly or "crisp-haired". We can also throw in the Canaanite, the Nobatae, the Zanj and the Sudani (Zaghawa, Soninke/Aswanek) as being among the blacks.
The least modified (or least altered thru intermixture) of these people are all dark literal brown or near black in color and tend to have kinky hair, when it hasn't been treated with chemicals. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Doug M: The ploy is obvious. Certain folks want to make Berber an "exclusive" marker of North African identity focusing on those populations with the most Eurasian ancestry. It is not coincidental that much of this originates in the halls of European academia and propaganda versus Africa itself.
But I like to laugh when such clowns try to claim that these Eurasian white folks, how ever they want to call them, got there before blacks.
But according to Kola the NUT these white Eurasiatics brought the U6 35,000 years ago.lol! Wonder how these so called paleolithic whites became black Mesolithic peoples in Europe.
Spain
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Doug M: Still waiting for citations and evidence for the white Eurasian ancestors of the Tuareg or the white Eurasian Aboriginal African population that moved South and created the Tuareg as offspring and taught them how to speak Berber and live a pastoral nomadic lifestyle in the Sahara.
Not to mention those authentic images of North West African Berbers who were part of the Almoravid and Almohade movement.
Funny thing is the descriptions of the Masmuda, Kitama and Sanhaja as blacks by Abu Shama of the 13th c., Butlan (11th c.) and Nasir Khusrau (11th) belongs to the period during and after the Almohade and Almoravide dynasties.
They just can't win. And what's more, they just don't get it, the cased is closed.lol!
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
Purely Italian woman Melissa Gorga (born Marco) from reality TV series who claimed she was sometimes mistaken for black growing up.
Same Italian women as a youngster. Now u know why the dna of Sicilians and southern Italian and Greek groups can show genetic resemblances to Africans.
People in the US are "mistaken" for black for a reason. if they are not from Africa or are not considered black it doesn't mean they don't have black African blood somewhere down the line. She probably looks a lot like some of the ancient Roman and Greco-Roman North Africans in the ancient frescoes.
Funny thing though that many North Africans of today don't look as African as this young lady.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: ...I never ever said anything about there not being light skinned people in ancient North Africa. That doesn't mean those people had anything to do with the original Berber- speaking people called Berbers by the Greeks and by themselves.
The term Berber is a recent adoption by peoples speaking an African Asiatic dialect who represent a composite population, but who more often than not have other or genetic contributions from outside of Africa - RECENTLY! PERIOD!
Berber tribes are only referred to as black up until not long ago. If you want to make descendants of Vandals, Alans, Romans, Turks, Greeks, and Eurasiatic slaves of varied geographical origin into some kind of imaginary "Berber people" indigenous to ancient North Africa I will not agree with it. There is absolutely no historical, genetic and especially anthropological evidence for that being the case.
Berber, like Amazigh, or Arab is a language and/ or nationality today and that is it.
This is something that Malcontent has a hard time digesting. He identifies only the lightest types as 'true' Berbers but dismisses the darker or even black types as recent slave descendants. It just doesn't add up with linguistics, archaeology, or genetics. Blacks are aboriginal to the area, NOT 'Middle Easterners', and NOT Europeans!
quote:Do you think without that blond dyed hair she's going to look any different than millions of other black American women.
Think again.
Here is another who headed CNBC television in America She happens to be similar to my color and a distant relative thru marriage. What do you think would happen if she or I dyed our hair blond?!
That would still make us some black American women with dyed blond hair. Now wouldn't it?
That is too bad if other people around the world are offended by the word black! The only reason they are offended is because they feel themselves to be better than the purer or blacker Africans who haven't mixed with fairer people.
In any case most early Berbers were not this medium brown color but much closer to black.
Ironically the newswoman in the picture exactly fits the bill of what the Malcontent calls "swarthy Middle Eastern" type! LOL
quote:But one thing is certain, and that is that the ancient Egyptians, Mauri i.e. the Berbers, the Indi i.e. Abyssinians, Blemmyes or Beja and the south Arabians; the north Arabians, Kedarenes, Kushi and Nabit/Nabataeans, and Indus Valley people, were all classified among "the blacks" at one time or another by European and Eurasiatic (Romans, Greeks, white Syrians, Armenians, Khazars, Slavs, Goths Francs) people of the ancient world, and mainly described as woolly or "crisp-haired". We can also throw in the Canaanite, the Nobatae, the Zanj and the Sudani (Zaghawa, Soninke/Aswanek) as being among the blacks.
The least modified (or least altered thru intermixture) of these people are all dark literal brown or near black in color and tend to have kinky hair, when it hasn't been treated with chemicals.
Actually the last part about the hair is not true since we know blacks not only in India and Southwest Asia but even in Africa can have hair that is not kinky at all but loose and wavy as discussed here.
quote: But according to Kola the NUT these white Eurasiatics brought the U6 35,000 years ago.lol! Wonder how these so called paleolithic whites became black Mesolithic peoples in Europe.
Spain
Ironically, Eurasiatics were recent settlers to Europe around that time and according to Jablonski and other experts their bodies still had tropically adapted traits and not to mention their skulls still resembled black Africans and Australian according to Chris Stringer and other experts. So middle paleolithic Europeans being 'white' is a fantasy indeed.
quote: Funny thing is the descriptions of the Masmuda, Kitama and Sanhaja as blacks by Abu Shama of the 13th c., Butlan (11th c.) and Nasir Khusrau (11th) belongs to the period during and after the Almohade and Almoravide dynasties.
They just can't win. And what's more, they just don't get it, the case is closed.lol!
The Euronuts can never win yet they keep trying all the time. Einstein said it best that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Posts: 26246 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: Purely Italian woman Melissa Gorga (born Marco) from reality TV series who claimed she was sometimes mistaken for black growing up.
Same Italian women as a youngster. Now u know why the dna of Sicilians and southern Italian and Greek groups can show genetic resemblances to Africans.
People in the US are "mistaken" for black for a reason. if they are not from Africa or are not considered black it doesn't mean they don't have black African blood somewhere down the line. She probably looks a lot like some of the ancient Roman and Greco-Roman North Africans in the ancient frescoes.
Funny thing though that many North Africans of today don't look as African as this young lady.
Have you seen the 1993 movie 'True Romance' starring Christopher Walken and Dennis Hopper? If so, do you remember this famous and 'controversial' scene between the two characters featuring a discussion about Sicilian ancestry?
posted
The History of African Gene Flow into Southern Europeans, Levantines, and Jews
Previous genetic studies have suggested a history of sub-Saharan African gene flow into some West Eurasian populations after the initial dispersal out of Africa that occurred at least 45,000 years ago. However, there has been no accurate characterization of the proportion of mixture, or of its date. We analyze genome-wide polymorphism data from about 40 West Eurasian groups to show that almost all Southern Europeans have inherited 1%–3% African ancestry with an average mixture date of around 55 generations ago, consistent with North African gene flow at the end of the Roman Empire and subsequent Arab migrations. Levantine groups harbor 4%–15% African ancestry with an average mixture date of about 32 generations ago, consistent with close political, economic, and cultural links with Egypt in the late middle ages. We also detect 3%–5% sub-Saharan African ancestry in all eight of the diverse Jewish populations that we analyzed. For the Jewish admixture, we obtain an average estimated date of about 72 generations. This may reflect descent of these groups from a common ancestral population that already had some African ancestry prior to the Jewish Diasporas.
quote:Originally posted by Perahu: The History of African Gene Flow into Southern Europeans, Levantines, and Jews
Previous genetic studies have suggested a history of sub-Saharan African gene flow into some West Eurasian populations after the initial dispersal out of Africa that occurred at least 45,000 years ago. However, there has been no accurate characterization of the proportion of mixture, or of its date. We analyze genome-wide polymorphism data from about 40 West Eurasian groups to show that almost all Southern Europeans have inherited 1%–3% African ancestry with an average mixture date of around 55 generations ago, consistent with North African gene flow at the end of the Roman Empire and subsequent Arab migrations. Levantine groups harbor 4%–15% African ancestry with an average mixture date of about 32 generations ago, consistent with close political, economic, and cultural links with Egypt in the late middle ages. We also detect 3%–5% sub-Saharan African ancestry in all eight of the diverse Jewish populations that we analyzed. For the Jewish admixture, we obtain an average estimated date of about 72 generations. This may reflect descent of these groups from a common ancestral population that already had some African ancestry prior to the Jewish Diasporas.
What's the point in emphasizing on 1-3% ancestry? Sounds kind of pathetic to me.
99-97% of Southern European DNA is non-African.
Umm... if you want to believe all Italians like this woman below has 1% or even 5% ancestry go right ahead.LMBO! All I can say is you can run, but you can not hide.
Josephina Victoria "Joy" Behar (born Occhiuto) Holy, moly! I didn't know there three sistah's on the View. Didn't you mean 10-30%? Sorry, but not even a blowdryer's going to make up for this one.
Joy Behar all grown up and after the blowdryer? Now we know where she gets her spunk.
Look not all southern Europeans are alike.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
^Um, we can run but we cannot hide. But why should we? Where is the present contribution by your people if they are so great? Did they decide to take a break? Posts: 527 | From: usa | Registered: Apr 2009
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Actually the last part about the hair is not true since we know blacks not only in India and Southwest Asia but even in Africa can have hair that is not kinky at all but loose and wavy as discussed here.
I tend to go with the idea that blacks in India and Africa are straight have straight hair when they are mixed with Eurasians or Asian populations. It is obvious that aboriginal Australians have mixed with Dravidians and the once extremely black Dravidians have absorbed with Iranic or other Asian peoples. That is why some have kinky hair and others have wavy hair. That is why some Amhara or Somali or Tuareg have kinky hair while others have wavy or curly hair. This may have come as early as the neolithic in some regions but I doubt that it was originally a tropical trait of black Africans.
If you look at how black some of the Somali and Dravidians which is black as ink (and I am not exagerrating)you can see why they could have remained dark brownish or near black and still have wavy or curly hair. The same goes for the Beja.
In my view most Indians are a fixed type that is neither fully black nor European (Iranic) or Asian due to their very ancient intermixture that stems back to the neolithic.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: Where is the present contribution by your people if they are so great?
In the genes fool in the genes, look to the haplogroups, you've been lost simpleton.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: Where is the present contribution by your people if they are so great?
In the genes fool in the genes, look to the haplogroups, you've been lost simpleton.
In the genes? I've looked in all 4 pockets of my genes and I still haven't found a thing. Where could it be? Is the answer on the floor? Maybe I've dropped it on the floor. Do you think?
Posts: 527 | From: usa | Registered: Apr 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: ^Um, we can run but we cannot hide. But why should we? Where is the present contribution by your people if they are so great? Did they decide to take a break?
My people... umm, tell me who my people are first. is that simple enough? Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: Where is the present contribution by your people if they are so great?
In the genes fool in the genes, look to the haplogroups, you've been lost simpleton.
In the genes? I've looked in all 4 pockets of my genes and I still haven't found a thing. Where could it be? Is the answer on the floor? Maybe I've dropped it on the floor. Do you think?
Testing testing, 1,2,3. Lyin _ss is that you. Please come back if it aint. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: ^Um, we can run but we cannot hide. But why should we? Where is the present contribution by your people if they are so great? Did they decide to take a break?
My people... umm, tell me who my people are first. is that simple enough?
Since you are so anxious to isolate every accomplishment known to humankind to the people south of the Saharan desert, (which I assume are your people)then tell us what happened? Where are their accomplishments now? Why did they quit?
Posts: 527 | From: usa | Registered: Apr 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: south of the Saharan desert, (which I assume are your people)
Do you know how many countries are south of the Sahara?
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl:
quote:Originally posted by AGÜEYBANÁ(Mind718):
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: Where is the present contribution by your people if they are so great?
In the genes fool in the genes, look to the haplogroups, you've been lost simpleton.
In the genes? I've looked in all 4 pockets of my genes and I still haven't found a thing. Where could it be? Is the answer on the floor? Maybe I've dropped it on the floor. Do you think?
Oh ok you mean to tell me you don't know the difference between jeans and genes?
Clarity, in the genetics a.k.a genes simpleton.
But of course you knew this, your blubbery self just likes to ignore genetics and anthropology, we all know to well.
Possibly all that blubber clogging your brain, or that Neanderthal admixture you oh so love to play up!
^^Is it the Neanderthal brain function clouding your judgement? LMFAO
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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Topic Closed
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There is absolutely no historical, genetic and especially anthropological evidence for that being the case.
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