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Author Topic: THE OTHER VINCENT VAN GOGH?
Egmond Codfried
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http://www.wikigallery.org/wiki/painting_299012/Vincent-Van-Gogh/Head-Of-Young-Peasant-With-Pipe-1884


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Head Of Peasant Woman With Dark Cap 1885

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http://www.google.nl/search?hl=nl&q=Head+Of+Peasant+Woman+With+Dark+Cap+1885&gs_sm=s&gs_upl=1302l1302l0l3130l1l1l0l0l0l0l104l104l0.1l1l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&biw=994&bih=6 38&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi


http://www.google.nl/search?gcx=c&q=van+gogh+young+man+with+pipe&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=nl&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=994&bih=602&sei=HpLDTsLBC8OcOreOhewO

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Young Man With Pipe

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Voorstudie?

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Egmond Codfried
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Young Peasant Woman with Dark Cap

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Egmond Codfried
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http://www.oceansbridge.com/paintings/artists/recently-added/vangogh-all/1883-86-Nuenen-and-Antwerp/Nuenen/1885%20Head%20of%20a%20Peasant%20Woman%20with%20White%20Cap%20version%204 .jpg

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Egmond Codfried
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I'm absolutely stunned by my own discovery.
Is there a source which discusses the Blacks done by Vincent van Gogh?
Who are these persons?

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Egmond Codfried
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Portrait Of A Woman

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Egmond Codfried
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Van Gogh's Black Dutch Peasants


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Egmond Codfried
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Hey honey, now these afro-nuts are also stealing Vincent van Gogh!
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Egmond Codfried
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[QUOTE=nihao;5806046]Zou het niet kunnen dat de 'zwartheid' van de boerenfiguren van Van Gogh (en die van Permeke ook, nu ik eraan denk) iets met ... hygiëne ... te maken heeft ?[/QUOTE]


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quote:

Van Gogh heeft de zogenaamde wetenschappelijk contouren van een zwarte schedel weergegeven. Mijn conclusie is niet op slechts één afbeelding gebaseerd.

Maar goed, de doelgroep ziet altijd meteen wat ik bedoel, want ze zijn niet geestelijk beschadigd door racistische indoctrinatie.

Opvallend is dat conservators ook altijd ontkennen dat het om zwarte typen gaat, maar ze tonen deze portretten meestal niet aan het publiek, of vermijden ze in publicaties.

A person on a Belgian based forum speculates whether this supposed blackness has to with the lack of hygiene!
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Egmond Codfried
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[Head of a peasant woman (1885)]


THIS SHOULD BE THE FIRST PIECE EVER WHICH LINKS VINCENT VAN GOGH WITH HIS BLACKNESS...

http://www.surfspin.nl/aardappeleters.jpg

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[The Patato-eaters by Van Gogh (1885)]


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The first formal paintings by Vincent van Gogh were made in Nuenen, Brabant (1885), and he engaged the De Groot family as models. Although he has a caricatured style, it’s still possible he depicted Blacks, with more or less strong physiognomy.

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[Maria Jacoba van Goor (1687-1737), de oma van Belle van Zuylen]

Earlier I have researched members of the Regentclass Van Goor family, who originally came from Bokhoven and Blericum, and were farmers.

http://en.wahooart.com/@/VincentVanGogh

Biography

http://vangoghletters.org/vg/search/simple?term=negresses

Van Gogh lettres “negresses”

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Two Moors by Rembrandt

http://www.google.nl/search?hl=nl&q=sinterklaas+afbeeldingen+historische&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&biw=994&bih=619&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi#um=1&hl=nl&tbm=i sch&sa=1&q=nuenen&pbx=1&oq=nuenen&aq=f&aqi=g5g-S5&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=70243l71474l2l71837l6l6l0l1l1l0l151l467l3.2l5l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=62740bb340bd83e0&biw=994&bih= 619

Nuenen

http://www.google.nl/search?hl=nl&q=sinterklaas+afbeeldingen+historische&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&biw=994&bih=619&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi#um=1&hl=nl&tbm=i sch&sa=1&q=nuenen+van+gogh&pbx=1&oq=nuenen+van+gogh&aq=f&aqi=g1g-S4&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=66766l68886l4l69243l9l9l0l6l6l0l150l279l2.1l3l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=62740bb340b d83e0&biw=994&bih=619

Neunen van Gogh

http://www.google.nl/search?um=1&hl=nl&q=nuenen%20van%20gogh%20de%20groot&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=4242l6122l0l6558l9l9l0l8l8l0l119l119l0.1l1l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&biw=994&bih=619& ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=iw

Neunen van Gogh de Groot: Van Gogh engaged the family De Groot for his first forma paintings ‘ The patato-eaters’ serie

quote:
In het huisje van de familie De Groot, dat in gerenoveerde vorm nog aan de Gerwenseweg even buiten Nuenen staat, vond hij ze. Knokige vingers, knobbelige neuzen, zeiloren, vlezige lippen, geprononceerde jukbeenderen, zware wenkbrauwen en dierlijke kakementen: er is geen lelijker gezelschap in de kunstgeschiedenis dat zo beroemd is geworden als De aardappeleters van Vincent van Gogh.

Het schilderij is tegelijkertijd onaantrekkelijk en fascinerend. Toen Van Gogh het toonde, ervoeren zijn tijdgenoten vooral dat eerste. Gevoeligheid voor het tweede groeide in de jaren na zijn dood, toen door publicatie van zijn brieven meer begrip ontstond voor zijn artistieke programma en de ontwikkeling daarvan. Daarna werd het typisch negentiende-eeuwse motief snel een van de iconen van de kunst van de twintigste eeuw.

INFO:
Gerwenseweg 4, Nuenen

http://www.routeyou.com/location/view/47417554/huisje-van-de-familie-de-groot-gerwenseweg-4-nuenen.nl

http://tracingvincent.amdev.nl/blog/who-van-gogh%E2%80%99s-hidden-lady-00592
http://www.brabantsdagblad.nl/algemeen/3496112/De-aardappeleters.ece

Sien de Groot, second from left.

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http://en.wahooart.com/A55A04/w.nsf/Opra/SRVV-7F9P5G

Van Gogh knew a thing or two about skull shapes

http://media.kunst-fuer-alle.de/img/36/m/36_7541~two-negroes,-1661.jpg

Picasso’s Black period

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Manet: The Negress

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Gabriel Metsu: Head of a Negress

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Egmond Codfried
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Jo Bongers, sister in law of Vincent van Gogh: looking mighty dark and ethnic!
with his mother and brother.

http://www.literatuurplein.nl/boekdetail.jsp?boekId=584763

Memoir by Jo Bongers about Vincent

http://www.vggallery.com/misc/archives/jo_memoir.htm

bio van Bongers

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johanna_Bonger

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Egmond Codfried
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1862 (S.C)

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Egmond Codfried
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Egmond Codfried
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http://members.home.nl/jp.de.groot/simon.html

quote:
Johanna werd op een boerderij in Nuenen geboren, Haar ouders Gerardus de Graaff en Anna Soethout hadden daar een pachtboerderij van de Heidemaatschappij. Zij woonden in dezelfde straat als de ouders van Vincent van Gogh, deze twee families kenden elkaar dus goed. Zo vertelde zij aan haar kleinkinderen dat de door Vincent van Gogh geschilderde "aardappeleters" familie van haar waren.

En dat dit beroemde schilderij eigenlijk de "koffiedrinkers" zou moeten heten, aangezien zij bij hun thuis altijd verse koffie klaar hadden staan op de stoof. Dit verhaal van de aardappeleters is destijds ook bevestigd door familie uit Nuenen, die haar kleinzoon Gert Jan heeft ontmoet op de crematieplechtigheid van een neef van zijn oma, ook een De Graaff (een paardenfokker destijds te Nuenen).

Echter de kunsthistorici hebben een andere versie, maar ja die hebben het verhaal niet uit eerste hand, en kunnen best ongelijk hebben. Het was vroeger op het platteland gebruikelijk dat men twee keer ging ontbijten. Er werd dan onder het genot van grote kommen koffie met veel melk, brood, pap, pannekoeken of aardappelen gegeten. Op het schilderij zal dan het eerste ontbijt, vroeg in de morgen, zijn afgebeeld, gezien de brandende petroleumlamp boven de tafel. Hoe dan ook, de aardappeleters hebben trekken die bij diverse familieleden ook voorkomen.

De ouders van Vincent van Gogh zijn op het zelfde kerkhof begraven als de ouders van Johanna de Graaff (beide families waren Ned Hervormd) (informatie afkomstig van Gert Jan de Groot, Wijchen).

[foto rechts: het beroemde schilderij "de aardappeleters" van vanGogh. In het grijze huisje aan de Gerwenseweg 4 in Nuenen bij de familie de Groot. Gordina de Groot (ook wel Sien of Dien genoemd, 1855-1927), tweede van links). Ze kijkt naar Cis van Rooij. De vrouw rechts schenkt kommetjes vol met bitterzwart vocht getrokken van cichorei. Echte koffie is onbetaalbaar].

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familie de groot van rooij nuenen van gogh

http://www.google.nl/search?um=1&hl=nl&safe=off&q=johanna%20de%20graaff%20van%20gogh%20nuenen&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=2891l5033l2l3179l9l9l0l8l0l0l136l136l0.1l1l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf. osb&biw=994&bih=638&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=iw#q=familie+de+groot+van+rooij+nuenen+van+gogh&hl=nl&safe=off&prmd=imvns&ei=ocHLTqqpE4KEOpCmzZQP&sqi=2&start=10&sa=N&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,c f.osb&fp=7981e6eb098e39f2&biw=994&bih=638

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Egmond Codfried
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O jou Black, let no one tell you you cannot study Vincent van Gogh.

quote:
Originally posted by Egmond Codfried:
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I'm absolutely stunned by my own discovery.
Is there a source which discusses the Blacks done by Vincent van Gogh?
Who are these persons?


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Egmond Codfried
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Vincent van Gogh, extremely handsome as a young man, does not strike me as physically Black. But their might have been a strong Black consciousness; for him choosing a Black rural family for his first formal paintings. While at the same time his brother married a dark skinned, oriental (?) looking woman. I did not find sources to link her to Indonesia, yet. But she could have been many other ethnicities. Some later portraits by Van Gogh show coloured persons. Educated Europeans regarded Adam as a Black man, made from the black soil. Van Gogh, who trained to be a minister, might have symbolically chosen a rare Black family to start his career as a painter. Then I felt again the need, as with Isabelle de Charriere, to point out the elements off Blackness, swirling around their person; as a way of explaining the personality and themes. And I was amazed that his sister in law is the person who gave the world Vincent van Gogh, in spite of the hostility of the established art world. From the titbits I have read so far, the first persons who appraised the artistic merits of the Potato Eaters series; used jargon, which might show they were aware that Blacks were depicted. Van Gogh lived with an ex-prostitute, in a long gone house, near where I live in The Hague, and I have scrutinized her picture as well as her daughter's picture on the web. She is not regarded as his child. There is a hint of darkness, but really very vague. But I also notice that dark skinned Johanna Bonger van Gogh appears quite white of skin in some photographs.
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Egmond Codfried
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http://bouillabaiseworkinprogress.blogspot.com/2009/02/oudste-foto-uit-suriname.html

Oldest picture made in Suriname. The Parents of Ellis, who became a Dutch Minister of the Marine. His mother was born a slave, his father was the natural son of a Surinam governor.
The minister looks Asian. So Jo Bonger van Gogh could be anything coloured.

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the lioness,
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are these blacks the former nobility of Europe ???

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Egmond Codfried
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As I’m reading on I found this seven parts series of correspondence from Vincent van Gogh with his brother Theo. Some letters are shown in facsimile, but with all letters they have printed the paintings and images which Van Gogh is discussing, and naming as an inspiration. We also find pieces from literature and poetry which inspired his work, and his appreciation of other art works.

This series also shows the little sketches that Van Gogh added to the letters to Theo to show what he was working on. The earliest sketch of the Potato Eaters shows already one or two Black persons (the woman pouring coffee), but also one white man (the man offering is cup for coffee).

Apparently Van Gogh decided later on to make all his personages Blacks, following in the steps of all great European painters who painted Blacks, and symbolic Moors. The final line from the novel The Mine by Emile Zola is named by Van Gogh, about a Black Race emerging from the ground, as inspiration.

My idea that there were Blacks among the Family De Groot from Nuenen, Noord Brabant, still stands. Or that more farmers in Nuenen in 1885 were Blacks with more or less white admixture. Earlier research on Baroness Isabelle de Charriere’s granny, Maria Jacoba van Goor (1687-1737), showed the Van Goor family starting out as farmers in Noord Brabant, then a son moving to Amsterdam to become a merchant, and the family becoming very rich and important, with a fifth generation member marrying a baron.

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Egmond Codfried
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Gordina de Groot: clearly an image that wants to depict a Black woman. Not clear if it's Gordina de Groot's true likeness.

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Egmond Codfried
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Kee Vos, niece of Vincent van Gogh.
He was very much in love with the widowed Kee, which fact caused trouble in the family.

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Egmond Codfried
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