Iron. Egmond has that nice painting of the Stuart King Charles II of Scotland.
I don't have much Scottish material but I do have this page on Africans / Negroes / blacks of Southwest England where the early miners were concentrated:
Dub mac Maíl Coluim (Modern Gaelic: Dubh mac Mhaoil Chaluim) sometimes anglicised as Duff MacMalcolm Niger, “the Black” (died 967) was king of Alba.
He was son of Malcolm I (Máel Coluim mac Domnaill) and succeeded to the throne when Indulf (Ildulb mac Causantín) was killed in 962.
Niger Val Dubh lived and reigned over certain black divisions in Scotland. A clan of Scots known as ‘the sons of the blacks’ (MacDub or MacDuib, MacDuff) succeeded him in history. (JA Rogers, Sex and Race).
Dubh’s descendants, the clann Dubh, (clan MacDuff) became officials of the Scottish court and later Earls of Fife.
Cináed mac Duib (Modern Gaelic: Coinneach mac Dhuibh) anglicised as Kenneth III, and nicknamed An Donn, “the Chief” or “the Brown”, (before 967–25 March 1005) was King of Scots from 997 to 1005. He was the son of Dub (Dub mac Maíl Coluim) otherwise known as Kenneth Niger or the black. His image depicts him as a black Scotsman. His line of Kings descending from King Kenneth Dubh was known as the “sons of the black.” See J.A. Rogers. Dub is a Gaelic word meaning black.
He succeeded to the throne perhaps after killing his cousin Constantine III (reigned 995–997); he was himself killed at Monzievaird by Malcolm (son of Kenneth II), who became Malcolm II. Gruoch, wife of the future King Macbeth, was apparently a granddaughter of Kenneth III.
The father of Kenneth III was known as “the black”. Kenneth himself was known as “the brown”. Probably because he was mixed blood or probably because he was lighter in complexion than his father. Whatever may be that answer, it is clear that Kenneth Dub and Kenneth III were darker in complexion than what represents itself as the Scots of today.
Black Scots and red Scots, Red Scots and black; I hae dealt wi’ the red Scot, An’ dealt wi’ the black. The Red Scot is angry Among the sons o’ men— He’ll pay you a bawbee, An’ steal it back again.
Black Scots and red Scots, Red Scots and black; I hae dealt wi’ the red Scot, An’ dealt wi’ the black.
The Black Scot is frien’ly— A brither an’ a’— He’ll pay you a bawbee, An’ steal back twa.
The Ginger Scot o’ a’ Scots, The warst shade o’ Scot, For he’ll pay ye naething, An’ tak’ a’ you’ve got.
Black Scots and red Scots, Short Scots an’ lang, Ginger Scots an’ bald Scots— I dealt wi’ the gang.
posted
"Ancient and Modern Britons" Vol I & II by David Mac Ritchie is full of evidence for existence of Black scots and among them " Kenneth King of Alban; who was known as Dubh, Niger or the Black " P 266 Vol I
* Macduff/Magha Dubh = The son of the blacks:The clan of the Black , Vol I P 266 (according to the swarthy and black colour of those of the tribe)
* Kenneth ruled blacks and whites in scotland ,Vol II p 87
* Magha Dubh shortened into McDuff , represented "one division of the posterity of this powerful black king", Vol II p 87
* Black Monks in Scotland, Vol II p 291
* P 272 ,The black races of Scotland , Vol I * P 116,about the ancestors of the McLeod : "from Leod,son to the Black prince of Man", Vol I
etc, etc
These 2 books are very embarrassing (with skeletal evidence , analyzed by Pr Huxley a scholar of that time) for Euronuts : Black Danes, Black Celts, Black Vikings,Black Huns,Black Druids,Black Hungarians,Black (Kara) Tartars of Genghis Khan, the Black Moors of Great Britain in General...
-------------------- The wise man knows he knows nothing, the fool thinks he knows all Posts: 70 | From: Paris / France | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Nehesy: "Ancient and Modern Britons" Vol I & II by David Mac Ritchie is full of evidence for existence of Black scots and among them " Kenneth King of Alban; who was known as Dubh, Niger or the Black " P 266 Vol I
* Macduff/Magha Dubh = The son of the blacks:The clan of the Black , Vol I P 266 (according to the swarthy and black colour of those of the tribe)
* Kenneth ruled blacks and whites in scotland ,Vol II p 87
* Magha Dubh shortened into McDuff , represented "one division of the posterity of this powerful black king", Vol II p 87
* Black Monks in Scotland, Vol II p 291
* P 272 ,The black races of Scotland , Vol I * P 116,about the ancestors of the McLeod : "from Leod,son to the Black prince of Man", Vol I
etc, etc
These 2 books are very embarrassing (with skeletal evidence , analyzed by Pr Huxley a scholar of that time) for Euronuts : Black Danes, Black Celts, Black Vikings,Black Huns,Black Druids,Black Hungarians,Black (Kara) Tartars of Genghis Khan, the Black Moors of Great Britain in General...
Teach! Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Nehesy: "Ancient and Modern Britons" Vol I & II by David Mac Ritchie is full of evidence for existence of Black scots and among them " Kenneth King of Alban; who was known as Dubh, Niger or the Black " P 266 Vol I
* Macduff/Magha Dubh = The son of the blacks:The clan of the Black , Vol I P 266 (according to the swarthy and black colour of those of the tribe)
* Kenneth ruled blacks and whites in scotland ,Vol II p 87
* Magha Dubh shortened into McDuff , represented "one division of the posterity of this powerful black king", Vol II p 87
* Black Monks in Scotland, Vol II p 291
* P 272 ,The black races of Scotland , Vol I * P 116,about the ancestors of the McLeod : "from Leod,son to the Black prince of Man", Vol I
etc, etc
These 2 books are very embarrassing (with skeletal evidence , analyzed by Pr Huxley a scholar of that time) for Euronuts : Black Danes, Black Celts, Black Vikings,Black Huns,Black Druids,Black Hungarians,Black (Kara) Tartars of Genghis Khan, the Black Moors of Great Britain in General...
posted
Yes there were black kings in Scotland. Black and blue from beating each other half to death.lol
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posted
^you are a recent immigrant into Caledonia. Your types are albino asiatic nomads. Running after dogs from central Asia to the Americas.... LMBAO!
Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Nehesy: "Ancient and Modern Britons" Vol I & II by David Mac Ritchie is full of evidence for existence of Black scots and among them " Kenneth King of Alban; who was known as Dubh, Niger or the Black " P 266 Vol I
* Macduff/Magha Dubh = The son of the blacks:The clan of the Black , Vol I P 266 (according to the swarthy and black colour of those of the tribe)
* Kenneth ruled blacks and whites in scotland ,Vol II p 87
* Magha Dubh shortened into McDuff , represented "one division of the posterity of this powerful black king", Vol II p 87
* Black Monks in Scotland, Vol II p 291
* P 272 ,The black races of Scotland , Vol I * P 116,about the ancestors of the McLeod : "from Leod,son to the Black prince of Man", Vol I
etc, etc
These 2 books are very embarrassing (with skeletal evidence , analyzed by Pr Huxley a scholar of that time) for Euronuts : Black Danes, Black Celts, Black Vikings,Black Huns,Black Druids,Black Hungarians,Black (Kara) Tartars of Genghis Khan, the Black Moors of Great Britain in General...
quote:Originally posted by Nehesy: "Ancient and Modern Britons" Vol I & II by David Mac Ritchie is full of evidence for existence of Black scots and among them " Kenneth King of Alban; who was known as Dubh, Niger or the Black " P 266 Vol I
* Macduff/Magha Dubh = The son of the blacks:The clan of the Black , Vol I P 266 (according to the swarthy and black colour of those of the tribe)
* Kenneth ruled blacks and whites in scotland ,Vol II p 87
* Magha Dubh shortened into McDuff , represented "one division of the posterity of this powerful black king", Vol II p 87
* Black Monks in Scotland, Vol II p 291
* P 272 ,The black races of Scotland , Vol I * P 116,about the ancestors of the McLeod : "from Leod,son to the Black prince of Man", Vol I
etc, etc
These 2 books are very embarrassing (with skeletal evidence , analyzed by Pr Huxley a scholar of that time) for Euronuts : Black Danes, Black Celts, Black Vikings,Black Huns,Black Druids,Black Hungarians,Black (Kara) Tartars of Genghis Khan, the Black Moors of Great Britain in General...
MacRitchies' ''black race'' is Melanochroi (Mediterranid) and Australoid, not Negroid.
Afrocentric retards diliberately distort his racial typology and views.
Retard
You mean MacRitchie confused himself when he was writing about the black race in Scotland? You think MacRitchie never saw a Muur in his lifetime?
Whao..you are getting worse!
I own Ancient and Modern Britons (original 1884 copies) and even have posted a photo of them and reviewed them. I've gone through them thoroughly. They do not support what Afrocentrics claim. As i expained MacRitchie's ''black race'' was in fact Australoid, not Negroid. He makes the distinction from the beginning of his first volume. His proposed that the aboriginal race of Britain is Australoid-Melanochroi (Mediterranid) following Huxley's (1870's) theory that Mediterreneans were the product of xanthochroi (Nordics) and Australoids. This theory today is absolete.
The ''old black breed'' of Scotland which MacRitchie discusses drawing from J.F. Campbell's West Highland Tales, vol. i (1860) are the swarthy Mediterrenean peoples. They are not Negroids. Mauros (Moor) means dark skin and MacRitchie repeatedly clarifies it is a word that does not denote skin a dark as a negro.
- Basically you are an idiot. You don't know a thing about MacRitchie or his literature, just like a typical afronut you distort his views. You simpletons do the same with Grafton Elliot Smith as well.
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posted
^ Looks like you didn't read what i stated.
MacRitchie followed Huxley's (1870's) theory that the Melanochroi (Mediterrenean) peoples were the result of Xanthochroi (Nordics) and Australoids.
The indigenous people of Britain, MacRitchie thought looked like this -
This is the Mediterrenean phenotype, but he thought you got this if you mixed the Nordics and Australoids. This theory is obsolete and has been disgarded for well over 100 years.
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posted
^ It's from page 2 of his work, and is what his entire ethnological theory is based on.
Page 2 is entitled: ''Fair Whites and Dark Whites'' and he uses Huxley's Australoid-Xanthochroi theory.
Page 7 is entitled ''Australioids'', Huxley's alternitive spelling of Australoid.
I'm not though wasting half an hour to type it all out. It's exactly what i've summarised above.
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quote: “DOUGALL (Generally Mac-Dougall): Gael. dhu, black, and gall, a stranger – an expression used by the CELTIC INHABITANTS OF SCOTLAND to DENOTE A LOWLANDER, or ANY ONE NOT OF THEIR OWN RACE. It is still in use as a baptismal name” – Page 93 (“Dou- to Dow-”), “Patronymica Britannica: A Dictionary of the Family Names of the United Kingdom” by Mark Antony Lower, 1860
quote: “Duff, a surname adopted from the Celtic, in which? language the word means black. Sibbald, in his History of Fife, says, ” that as Niger and Rufus were names of families amongst the Romans, from the colour and complexion of men, so it seems Duff was, from the swarthy and black colour of those of the tribe,” or clan of Macduff.”
-The Scottish nation; or, The surnames, families, literature, honours, and biographical history of the people of Scotland (1877) by William Anderson
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posted
David MacRitchie , « Ancient and Modern Britons » , 1884
1. Vol I, page 46 :
"Any latin dictionary, any old one at least, will tell you that maurus is a 'moor', a 'blackamoor' or a'tawny moor '. And Shakespeare uses the world 'moor' as a synonym for 'negro'(Merchant of Venice, act III, scene V)''..."At that last world bears nowadays a somewhat restricted meaning , it may be better to take the old fashioned « blackamoor »,as the nearest English rendering of maurus signifying thereby any black, or brown skinned man".
2. Vol II Page 87
"....One division of the posterity of this powerful black king, of the tenth century, became known to Gaelic-speaking people as MAGA DUBH ( Mc Duff) or "clan of the black ", see also Vol I page 161-162
3. Vol I, page 214 :
"And in the diction of the past, A black man was a moor...."
MacRitchie speaks of :
- Xantochroid : White,
- Melanchroid (Xantochroid , mixed with Austroloid i.e blacks)
- Austroloids
But Also :
- Blackamoors (Moors)
- Black People of scotland (Duine Dubh = Black Man in scottish gaelic ) : Vol I page 47
- Black people of Ireland (Duine Gorm = Black Man in Irish Gaelic) : Vol I page 47
- Moravia or river of the moors : Vol I p 49 ( one of the tribe was called Quadi and fought the romans)
- Black people of Wales (Bwabach, Coblynau, Adhach Dubh or Avagddu) : Vol I page 156
- Black Knight of Lancashire : Vol I page 158
- Black Scandinavians (Thorfinn and Thorhall) : Vol I page 117
- Black Scandinavians (DUBH-LOCHLINNEAICH ) and White scandinavians (FIONN-LOCHLINNEAICH ): Vol I page 117
Romans found black people in britain :
- Vol I P 45: Pliny described them as AETHIOPIUM
- Vol I P 46-47 : Claudian described them as blackamoor
Etc, etc and many more : Scotland, Spain, France, England, Ireland, Denmark etc
- Volume I : pages 21,121,131
- Volume II : pages 17,20,27,87,102,107,112,113,127,188-189,297,322,328-329,360,392
Etc, etc
-------------------- The wise man knows he knows nothing, the fool thinks he knows all Posts: 70 | From: Paris / France | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: ^ Looks like you didn't read what i stated.
MacRitchie followed Huxley's (1870's) theory that the Melanochroi (Mediterrenean) peoples were the result of Xanthochroi (Nordics) and Australoids.
The indigenous people of Britain, MacRitchie thought looked like this -
This is the Mediterrenean phenotype, but he thought you got this if you mixed the Nordics and Australoids. This theory is obsolete and has been disgarded for well over 100 years.
MacRitchie wrote, "the legends and teh history of the Scottish Highlands are both witnesses to the exisnence of a purely black people there." Ancient and Modern Britons vol. II p.327, 1884.
Obviously the Scottish or Hibernians being referred to as "black as any American savage whatsoever" in Journey to the Hebrides 1773, pp. 139-40. Refers to black Scots not white men with dark eyebrows.
Interesting bust, Kenneth el Dubh also known as Cinaed son of Dubh (called "Niger" or the black)- the King of Alban. His descendants were called the sons of the blacks Dubhgaill or Douglasses. Dubh was son of Malcolm or Maíl Coluim.
So much for the Mathilda theory or Euronut propoganda rather, that when early Europeans said black they didn't really mean black - just dark haired. .lol!
This guy could very well have been a Berber since he is wearing a band around his head in Moorish style, or they may have just depicted him like a Moor. I'd like to know when this busts dates to, and where it is from.
Boswell wrote of one clan, the McCraes, "Some were as black and wild in their appearance as any American savages, whatsoever." Martin who had visited these Western islands eithy years before Boswell said of the people of Jura, "black of complexion," of Islay, "generally black"' and of Arran, "generally brown and some of a black complexion." From Western Islands of Scotland, pp. 236, 268, 272. cited in Nature Knows No Color Line.
Jurjura mountains were once inhabited by Mauri whom both Procopius and Corippus in the 6th century call black men.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Nehesy: [QB] David MacRitchie , « Ancient and Modern Britons » , 1884
1. Vol I, page 46 :
"Any latin dictionary, any old one at least, will tell you that maurus is a 'moor', a 'blackamoor' or a'tawny moor '. And Shakespeare uses the world 'moor' as a synonym for 'negro'(Merchant of Venice, act III, scene V)''..."At that last world bears nowadays a somewhat restricted meaning , it may be better to take the old fashioned « blackamoor »,as the nearest English rendering of maurus signifying thereby any black, or brown skinned man".
He clarifies 'mauros' means dark or brown skinned, not strictly Negro black. The Melanochroi are swarthy or olive skinned, they are Caucasoid, or ''dark white'' not Negroid - as MacRitchie repeatedly notes, p. 45 -
''The Iberians are styled ''swarthy''... The word swarthy is rather elastic, for although literally schwartz, yet it is taken, I fancy, to mean something not quite so dark as the colour of the Negro''
Nowhere does MacRitchie say the Iberians/Moors are Negroid, he identifies them as the Melanochroi or ''dark whites'' who are Caucasoid.
quote:2. Vol II Page 87
"....One division of the posterity of this powerful black king, of the tenth century, became known to Gaelic-speaking people as MAGA DUBH ( Mc Duff) or "clan of the black ", see also Vol I page 161-162
3. Vol I, page 214 :
"And in the diction of the past, A black man was a moor...."
MacRitchie's ''black race'' is not Negroid, its Australoid who he believed produced the Melanochroi division through admixture with the Xanthochroi (Nordic) and from whom the Moors, Picts, Gypsies, Iberians etc derived.
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MIKE I’D LIKE TO SHARE THIS WITH YOU. IT SHOWS IDENTICAL AND SIMILAR INSTANCES OF TRIBAL NAMES BETWEEN AFRICA AND AUSTRALIA.
African tribal nams are found in a book by a former professor in the Yale University Department of Anthropology: George Peter Murdock, Africa – its peoples and their cultural history, (McGraw-Hill Book Company, Inc., New York, 1959).
Conversely, Australian tribal names are found in: Norman Tindale, Aboriginal Tribes of Australia – their terrain, environmental controls, distribution, limits, and proper names, (University of California Press, Los Angeles, 1974).
The following paired tribal names are in an African/Australian order. Keep in mind that these books were written by two different men at two different times on two different continents. The exact spellings are taken from each respective above book: Anna/Anna, Bemba/Bemba, Goa/Goa, Gogo/Gogo, Jang/Jang, Jawara/Jawara (Adaman Islands), Koko/Koko, Kuri/Kuri, Madi/Madi-Madi, Maori/Maori (New Zealand), Mau/Mau, Mau/Maui (Hawaii), Meru/Meru, Munga/Munga, Nana/Nana, Ngala/Ngala, Ngumbu/Ngumbu, Ngundi/Ngundi, Njao/Njao, Nyamba/Nyamba, Tura/Tura, Waka/Waka, Woga/Woga, Yang/Yang, Yao/Yao.
Several near duplicates in the order of African/Australian here follow: Ngaga/Ngadja, Ngalaga/ Ngalagan, Ngama/Ngamadi, Ngamatak/ Ngamatta, Ngan/Ngan:a, Nganda/Nganadjara, Ngiri/ Ngirla, Ngoal/Ngoala, Ngolo/ Ngolok, Ngombe/Ngombaru, Ngoni/Ngonde, Ngulu/ Ngulubulu and Nguludjara, Nguru/Nguro, Njamus/Njamat, Njanja/Njana, Njungene/Njung, Nyamang/Nyamba.
For the immense period of time that it took for Africans to migrate to Australia, the tribal names remained intact.
. .
-------------------- The nature of homelife is the fate of the nation. Posts: 2334 | Registered: May 2006
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quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: ^ It's from page 2 of his work, and is what his entire ethnological theory is based on.
Page 2 is entitled: ''Fair Whites and Dark Whites'' and he uses Huxley's Australoid-Xanthochroi theory.
Page 7 is entitled ''Australioids'', Huxley's alternitive spelling of Australoid.
I'm not though wasting half an hour to type it all out. It's exactly what i've summarised above.
CAH-SH*T-HE-RIDES with all the other b.s. that you've both taken the time and wasted your time typing here, for people here to waste their time reading, jancrow you may as well...
COP-OUT. Posts: 3446 | From: U.S. by way of JA by way of Africa | Registered: Jan 2010
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Zaharan found the fellow to be a pathological liar and he calls someone retarded.
Cassi-Fakdes: MULTIPLE TIMES AT BAT, MULTIPLE EXPOSURES AS A FAKE...
--fake claim that no Australian Abo over 20 is blonde
-- fake claim that tropical Africans do not have any diversity in hair, skin or eye color
-- fake Cavalli-Sforza citation
-- 2nd fake Cavalli-Sforza reference
-- Faked Watson reference
-- Faked Biblical reference
.
See di bridle and reins deh....home-grown fe di azz-riding.... Posts: 3446 | From: U.S. by way of JA by way of Africa | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
"In 1862, John Beddoe, an esteemed ethnologist, published Races of Britain in which he described those of Celtic descent as having features similar to those of African descent.... "
-------------------- Lionz Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Nehesy: [QB] David MacRitchie , « Ancient and Modern Britons » , 1884
1. Vol I, page 46 :
"Any latin dictionary, any old one at least, will tell you that maurus is a 'moor', a 'blackamoor' or a'tawny moor '. And Shakespeare uses the world 'moor' as a synonym for 'negro'(Merchant of Venice, act III, scene V)''..."At that last world bears nowadays a somewhat restricted meaning , it may be better to take the old fashioned « blackamoor »,as the nearest English rendering of maurus signifying thereby any black, or brown skinned man".
He clarifies 'mauros' means dark or brown skinned, not strictly Negro black. The Melanochroi are swarthy or olive skinned, they are Caucasoid, or ''dark white'' not Negroid - as MacRitchie repeatedly notes, p. 45 -
''The Iberians are styled ''swarthy''... The word swarthy is rather elastic, for although literally schwartz, yet it is taken, I fancy, to mean something not quite so dark as the colour of the Negro''
Nowhere does MacRitchie say the Iberians/Moors are Negroid, he identifies them as the Melanochroi or ''dark whites'' who are Caucasoid.
quote:2. Vol II Page 87
"....One division of the posterity of this powerful black king, of the tenth century, became known to Gaelic-speaking people as MAGA DUBH ( Mc Duff) or "clan of the black ", see also Vol I page 161-162
3. Vol I, page 214 :
"And in the diction of the past, A black man was a moor...."
MacRitchie's ''black race'' is not Negroid, its Australoid who he believed produced the Melanochroi division through admixture with the Xanthochroi (Nordic) and from whom the Moors, Picts, Gypsies, Iberians etc derived.
MacRitchie wrote, "the legends and the history of the Scottish Highlands are both witnesses to the exisnence of a purely black people there." Ancient and Modern Britons vol. II p.327, 1884.
There is no such thing as an Australoid outside of an Australian aboriginal which is a type of early man whose hair ranges from straight to kinky. BTW - noone said anything about Negroid either, being that there is no such a thing. Negroid means broad nosed and prognathic. It can refer to anything that IS. It is not used for a race in anthropology.
African "Black" man wearing African head band is enough evidence for me.
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quote: Godfrey Higgins says in the first Volume of Anacalypsis, “In my Essay on The Celtic Druids, I have shewn, that a great nation called the Celtae, of whom the Druids were the priests, spread themselves almost over the whole earth, and are to be traced in their rude gigantic monuments from India to the extremity of Britain. Who these can have been but the early individuals of the black nation of whom we have been treating I know not, and in this opinion I am not singular.
The learned Maurice says, "Cushites, i.e. Celts, built the great temples in India and Britain, and excavated the caves of the former." And the learned Mathematician, Ruben Burrow, has no hesitation in pronouncing Stonehenge to be a temple of the black, curly-headed Buddha." ...
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posted
This whole thread is in response to my thread about gospel music having Scottish origins.lol...Now the fruitcakes are desperate to prove that the Scottish were black. I'll have to see what I can dig up in the way of medieval Scottish art to see how they really looked. Posts: 527 | From: usa | Registered: Apr 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: This whole thread is in response to my thread about gospel music having Scottish origins.lol...Now the fruitcakes are desperate to prove that the Scottish were black. I'll have to see what I can dig up in the way of medieval Scottish art to see how they really looked.
we all know popular music today was created by African's.
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posted
Someone needs to do a remake of the movie Braveheart, because someone didn't tell them that all of the actors should have been a bunch of brown guys.
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: This whole thread is in response to my thread about gospel music having Scottish origins.lol...Now the fruitcakes are desperate to prove that the Scottish were black. I'll have to see what I can dig up in the way of medieval Scottish art to see how they really looked.
Aha, a little art is always good for illustration.
I present some Celtic Saints.
Saint Columba - An old Celt:
The Icon is Saint Columcille (Columba) of Iona, by Maria Elchaninova-Struve.
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African "Black" man wearing African head band is enough evidence for me.
[/QB]
evidence of what?
According to the Spanish tradition, the four moors' symbol appeared first in the celebrations following the victory in the Battle of Alcoraz by King Peter I of Aragon and Navarre in 1096, where the four moors refer to the Arab defeat by his hand. The Moors' heads appeared originally in Aragonese and Catalan coats- and banners-of-arms in several places throughout their Mediterranean domains (Aragon, Corsica, Sardinia etc.). They intended to represent Moorish kings defeated and/or captured in combat (no actual persons and in no real number) and hence the Catalan and Aragonese participation in the Reconquest. In Medieval heraldry they were simply blazoned as "moors' heads" (or more frequently "blackamoors' heads" in English heraldry) and it was irrelevant where was the "tortil" (a headband , not a blindfold) placed or even whether it appeared at all.Since the 18th century, the flag was represented with the heads turned to the left and the bandages to hide the moors' eyes. The official recognition of the flag of Sardinia inside the Italian Republic came in 1952, thanks to a Presidential decree. A regional law approved in 1999 changed the flag, with the heads now turned to the right and the bandages encircling the forehead.
why do we pretend?
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: This whole thread is in response to my thread about gospel music having Scottish origins.lol...Now the fruitcakes are desperate to prove that the Scottish were black. I'll have to see what I can dig up in the way of medieval Scottish art to see how they really looked.
Aha, a little art is always good for illustration.
I present some Celtic Saints.
Saint Columba - An old Celt:
The Icon is Saint Columcille (Columba) of Iona, by Maria Elchaninova-Struve.
Cernnuns the Celtic Horned God:
Face of the Muur:
Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: Someone needs to do a remake of the movie Braveheart, because someone didn't tell them that all of the actors should have been a bunch of brown guys.
Look at the stone faces of those Muurish-Celtic stone monuments.
Now you know what happened. How you got there as a late comer, how you begged for a corner, how you turned a vampire and a murderess, how come it is became the twilight of the Celtic Gods:
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African "Black" man wearing African head band is enough evidence for me.
evidence of what?
According to the Spanish tradition, the four moors' symbol appeared first in the celebrations following the victory in the Battle of Alcoraz by King Peter I of Aragon and Navarre in 1096, where the four moors refer to the Arab defeat by his hand. The Moors' heads appeared originally in Aragonese and Catalan coats- and banners-of-arms in several places throughout their Mediterranean domains (Aragon, Corsica, Sardinia etc.). They intended to represent Moorish kings defeated and/or captured in combat (no actual persons and in no real number) and hence the Catalan and Aragonese participation in the Reconquest. In Medieval heraldry they were simply blazoned as "moors' heads" (or more frequently "blackamoors' heads" in English heraldry) and it was irrelevant where was the "tortil" (a headband , not a blindfold) placed or even whether it appeared at all.Since the 18th century, the flag was represented with the heads turned to the left and the bandages to hide the moors' eyes. The official recognition of the flag of Sardinia inside the Italian Republic came in 1952, thanks to a Presidential decree. A regional law approved in 1999 changed the flag, with the heads now turned to the right and the bandages encircling the forehead.
why do we pretend? [/QB]
Silly the "Mauri" were described as black men wearing head bands and rings in their ears in Roman texts. They also said their women uttered oracles in trance states and made prophecies similar to women in modern black Africa.
Black short haired Moors are pictured all over Europe by the hundreds in statues, carvings and in paintings with bands of some sort wrapped around their black and near black heads.
Is there something that you can not put together here in your head - like 2 and 2 and if so, why not?!
German depiction of Moors
Notice black or Moor didn't mean white in Germany
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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Dub mac Maíl Coluim (Modern Gaelic: Dubh mac Mhaoil Chaluim) sometimes anglicised as Duff MacMalcolm Niger, “the Black” (died 967) was king of Alba.
He was son of Malcolm I (Máel Coluim mac Domnaill) and succeeded to the throne when Indulf (Ildulb mac Causantín) was killed in 962.
Niger Val Dubh lived and reigned over certain black divisions in Scotland. A clan of Scots known as ‘the sons of the blacks’ (MacDub or MacDuib, MacDuff) succeeded him in history. (JA Rogers, Sex and Race).
Dubh’s descendants, the clann Dubh, (clan MacDuff) became officials of the Scottish court and later Earls of Fife.
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Is this the brown guy that lead all those other brown guys into battle against the Visigoths of Spain? Posts: 527 | From: usa | Registered: Apr 2009
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Wasn't North Africa invaded and conquered by the Visigoths previously before the conquest of Spain in 711 A.D.? A large part of the Moorish army was probably(you guessed it) descendants of the Visigoths.
Posts: 527 | From: usa | Registered: Apr 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Nehesy: [QB] David MacRitchie , « Ancient and Modern Britons » , 1884
1. Vol I, page 46 :
"Any latin dictionary, any old one at least, will tell you that maurus is a 'moor', a 'blackamoor' or a'tawny moor '. And Shakespeare uses the world 'moor' as a synonym for 'negro'(Merchant of Venice, act III, scene V)''..."At that last world bears nowadays a somewhat restricted meaning , it may be better to take the old fashioned « blackamoor »,as the nearest English rendering of maurus signifying thereby any black, or brown skinned man".
He clarifies 'mauros' means dark or brown skinned, not strictly Negro black. The Melanochroi are swarthy or olive skinned, they are Caucasoid, or ''dark white'' not Negroid - as MacRitchie repeatedly notes, p. 45 -
''The Iberians are styled ''swarthy''... The word swarthy is rather elastic, for although literally schwartz, yet it is taken, I fancy, to mean something not quite so dark as the colour of the Negro''
Nowhere does MacRitchie say the Iberians/Moors are Negroid, he identifies them as the Melanochroi or ''dark whites'' who are Caucasoid.
quote:2. Vol II Page 87
"....One division of the posterity of this powerful black king, of the tenth century, became known to Gaelic-speaking people as MAGA DUBH ( Mc Duff) or "clan of the black ", see also Vol I page 161-162
3. Vol I, page 214 :
"And in the diction of the past, A black man was a moor...."
MacRitchie's ''black race'' is not Negroid, its Australoid who he believed produced the Melanochroi division through admixture with the Xanthochroi (Nordic) and from whom the Moors, Picts, Gypsies, Iberians etc derived.
What does that have to do with the fact that Moors came to mean Negro from Spain to Finland and Albania due to the presence of black African people in Iberia and other countries.
The people that invaded spain included the Tuareg tribes of Lamt and Lamtuna or Aulemmidden a tribe of the Sanhaja, Beni Warith Goddala or Fulani of Takrur, who formed along wih the Haratin and other Africans the Almoravids. Jarawa now called Wangara or Soninke "a huge" portion of the Zanata according to Taha. Muslim Conquest and Settlement of North Africa and Spain. p. 24
What has that got to do with the fact that these Africans were the majority of the Moors in Spain, and the main reason they are depicted throughout Europe as black.
Spanish rendition of the Lamtuna Almoravid leader Abu Bakr brother of Yusuf Tachfin.
Abu Bakr al Lamtuni the lamtuna stock of Sanhaja still called by their name Aulemmiden founded the Almoravid Dynasty.
The Berbers were only groups Masmuda, Kitama, Sanhaja, Hawara, Goddala and Zanata. The Berbers were the majority of the Muslims groups in Spain regardless of how many slaves and freedman they brought in from the Central Asians, Turks and Syrians. In the time of the Ummayads to the Nasrids , the predominant proportion of the Moors were the Berbers the predominant proportion of the Berbers in Spain and North Africa were the Kitama/Sanhaja, Masmuda "the blacks" of Abu Shama, Nasir Khusrau and Ibn Butlan, and Zanata all of whom are mostly still dark in color considering the "endless" number of slaves brought into the Riff and other regions of Morocco from Europe up until the 20th century (if not still), and considering the Vandal and Roman settlement of Kabylia.
These people settled in and named dozens of places in Andalusia AFTER THEMSELVES.
According to Pierre Guichard’s, “Social History of Muslim Spain”
"… names of present day towns and large villages, such as Mequinenza in Aragon, Adzaneta in the Valencia region and Azuagha in the south of the present province of Badajoz, still, for instance, recall the tribal names Miknasa, Zanata and Zuwagha, of Maghribi origin. There were undoubtedly many other such cases in the geography of al-Andalus. In fact the geographer al –Istakhri, from the first half of the 4th/10th century, indicates, along the stages of the road from Cordoba to the Lower Frontier, in regions on the two sides of the Guadiana between the Guadalquivir and Duero valleys, districts or localities bearing the names of the Miknasa, Hawwara and Nafza Berber tribes (1992, p. 685).
Zawagha is the Arabized form of Zaghawa who like the Miknassa and Nafza were all Zanata Berbers and they all look alike. Hawara are the Aurigh Tuareg or Uraghen.
So much for your Euronut theory that Moor meant "swarthy'.
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