...
EgyptSearch Forums Post New Topic  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» EgyptSearch Forums » Deshret » blacks in falasteen

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: blacks in falasteen
typeZeiss
Member
Member # 18859

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for typeZeiss   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I wanted to know if any of you guys know of any research as to who are the blacks living in Palestine today. Are they the original "hebrew", left over Phoenicians maybe?

Here is a video of some of them http://youtu.be/7XbxeEgCNtY

I know some people get confused as to who the current Jews are, but there is a Jewish historian named Shlomo Sand. "The name of his book is "the Invention of the Jewish People". There is another good book called "The Thirteenth Tribe" by Arthur Koestler. These books talk about who the present day Jews are, how they came to be Jews etc.

You can see a video of him (Shlomo Sand) giving a lecture on the subject here http://youtu.be/1EmvANgw9Mk

I had a good friend from Palestine and once he told me about the blacks living there. I had never heard of them before him telling me. He didn't know much about them himself, other than his fathers best friend was one of them.

Posts: 1280 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Mike111
Banned
Member # 9361

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Mike111   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
^Good question, good post.

Of course Albino Jews are NOT Hebrews, they are Asian Turkic Khazars.
Just like the Albinos in Europe are NOT Europeans, they are Asian Germanics.

Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Clyde Winters
Member
Member # 10129

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Clyde Winters   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by typeZeiss:
I wanted to know if any of you guys know of any research as to who are the blacks living in Palestine today. Are they the original "hebrew", left over Phoenicians maybe?

Here is a video of some of them http://youtu.be/7XbxeEgCNtY

I know some people get confused as to who the current Jews are, but there is a Jewish historian named Shlomo Sand. "The name of his book is "the Invention of the Jewish People". There is another good book called "The Thirteenth Tribe" by Arthur Koestler. These books talk about who the present day Jews are, how they came to be Jews etc.

You can see a video of him (Shlomo Sand) giving a lecture on the subject here http://youtu.be/1EmvANgw9Mk

I had a good friend from Palestine and once he told me about the blacks living there. I had never heard of them before him telling me. He didn't know much about them himself, other than his fathers best friend was one of them.

Most of these Blacks are descendants of Muslims who made the pilgrimage to Jerusalem and decided to stay in the region.

.

Posts: 12261 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
typeZeiss
Member
Member # 18859

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for typeZeiss   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:
Originally posted by typeZeiss:
I wanted to know if any of you guys know of any research as to who are the blacks living in Palestine today. Are they the original "hebrew", left over Phoenicians maybe?

Here is a video of some of them http://youtu.be/7XbxeEgCNtY

I know some people get confused as to who the current Jews are, but there is a Jewish historian named Shlomo Sand. "The name of his book is "the Invention of the Jewish People". There is another good book called "The Thirteenth Tribe" by Arthur Koestler. These books talk about who the present day Jews are, how they came to be Jews etc.

You can see a video of him (Shlomo Sand) giving a lecture on the subject here http://youtu.be/1EmvANgw9Mk

I had a good friend from Palestine and once he told me about the blacks living there. I had never heard of them before him telling me. He didn't know much about them himself, other than his fathers best friend was one of them.

Most of these Blacks are descendants of Muslims who made the pilgrimage to Jerusalem and decided to stay in the region.

.

Is there any research work you could provide us with that proves this conclusion? I read a blog that talked about this, and the person on the blog claimed to have done research on the subject, but gave no citations to other works that corroborated that conclusion.
Posts: 1280 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Whatbox
Member
Member # 10819

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Whatbox   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by typeZeiss:
I wanted to know if any of you guys know of any research as to who are the blacks living in Palestine today. Are they the original "hebrew", left over Phoenicians maybe?

Here is a video of some of them http://youtu.be/7XbxeEgCNtY

I know some people get confused as to who the current Jews are, but there is a Jewish historian named Shlomo Sand. "The name of his book is "the Invention of the Jewish People". There is another good book called "The Thirteenth Tribe" by Arthur Koestler. These books talk about who the present day Jews are, how they came to be Jews etc.

You can see a video of him (Shlomo Sand) giving a lecture on the subject here http://youtu.be/1EmvANgw9Mk

I had a good friend from Palestine and once he told me about the blacks living there. I had never heard of them before him telling me. He didn't know much about them himself, other than his fathers best friend was one of them.

Type Zeiss, as I have it depending on where you go in South West Asia (Middle East), in terms of very dark skins / really darker skinned people, there are pockets of folks people call Veddoid / Australoid who are native, pockets of folks who are dark skinned and mixtures of these people and historic incoming Africans, and people just descended from incoming Africans and sometimes maybe mixed with local populations.

I would think to name singular events, but truthfully there have been many and when you look at it that place is a cross-roads between continents.

There were events such as the Hadjs of people from West Africa, the Zanji, the slave trade, and Abbyssinia, and others like them.

Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
typeZeiss
Member
Member # 18859

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for typeZeiss   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Whatbox:
quote:
Originally posted by typeZeiss:
I wanted to know if any of you guys know of any research as to who are the blacks living in Palestine today. Are they the original "hebrew", left over Phoenicians maybe?

Here is a video of some of them http://youtu.be/7XbxeEgCNtY

I know some people get confused as to who the current Jews are, but there is a Jewish historian named Shlomo Sand. "The name of his book is "the Invention of the Jewish People". There is another good book called "The Thirteenth Tribe" by Arthur Koestler. These books talk about who the present day Jews are, how they came to be Jews etc.

You can see a video of him (Shlomo Sand) giving a lecture on the subject here http://youtu.be/1EmvANgw9Mk

I had a good friend from Palestine and once he told me about the blacks living there. I had never heard of them before him telling me. He didn't know much about them himself, other than his fathers best friend was one of them.

Type Zeiss, as I have it depending on where you go in South West Asia (Middle East), in terms of very dark skins / really darker skinned people, there are pockets of folks people call Veddoid / Australoid who are native, pockets of folks who are dark skinned and mixtures of these people and historic incoming Africans, and people just descended from incoming Africans and sometimes maybe mixed with local populations.

I would think to name singular events, but truthfully there have been many and when you look at it that place is a cross-roads between continents.

There were events such as the Hadjs of people from West Africa, the Zanji, the slave trade, and Abbyssinia, and others like them.

I know Axum had a empire in that area so that could be the case. I do know their decedents are in Yemen, Oman and many other places still. The Zanj are typically associated with I'raq so I don't think that applied to the blacks in Palestine. As for Hajj, Hebron/Nabloos/Gaza etc are out of the way when going to Saudi Arabia from Africa. Someone would have had to go north, then head south through the Negav which I don't think is probable, it would have been a hardship, especially back then. So I don't think that accounts for them either.
Posts: 1280 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
-Just Call Me Jari-
Member
Member # 14451

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for -Just Call Me Jari-     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Blacks have always been in Palestine and the Near East/Mesopotamia. This is a basic fact. Blacks played a major role in the area, From the Empire of Egypt to the Immortals of Persia etc.

Two Syrians/Canaanites..

 -

Lower Part of a kneeling Bedouin..

 -

Syrian Tribute bearers..

 -

More..

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=005384

Posts: 7970 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
the lioness is a guy IRL
Member
Member # 18409

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for the lioness is a guy IRL     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
^ There is nothing negroid about any of those. You are a liar and a retard.
Posts: 2408 | From: ??? | Registered: Dec 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
-Just Call Me Jari-
Member
Member # 14451

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for -Just Call Me Jari-     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Some More Blacks in the Near East and Mesopotamia..

Early depictions of Christ as a black man..

 -

 -

More

 -


IMO, the Natives of Canaan, Sumer, Elam and Arabia were Cushitic type people similar to Ethiopians.

What Abraham and Jesus looked like..

Ethiopia

 -

Socotra

 -


Elam..

 -

 -

Posts: 7970 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
-Just Call Me Jari-
Member
Member # 14451

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for -Just Call Me Jari-     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Also this notion that the blacks in the near East and Palestine are descendants of Slaves and Pilgrims is hogwash. We have Images of blacks in the Neat East going back to A. Egyptian times, further some of the blacks in Palestine are Bedouins and Christians..

So when do slaves of Muslims suddenly become Bedouins or Muslim to Christianity??

Christian Palestinians in Gaza..(noted the Ethiopians have always maintained a presence in Jerusalem but this does not mean every black Christian in Palestine in Ethiopian, considering that the presence of Ethiopians would have been small to begin with.)

 -

Some Bedouins..

Negev

 -
 -

Arab Bedouins

 -

Posts: 7970 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
xyyman
Banned
Member # 13597

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for xyyman   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Just posted this on ESR

Saudi Arabian Y-Chromosome diversity and its relationship with nearby regions


Khaled K Abu-Amero*1, Ali Hellani2, Ana M González3, Jose M Larruga3,

Vicente M Cabrera3 and Peter A Underhill4


Within this frame, it should be expected that E-M96* types appear in Africa although its presence in the Arabian Peninsula instead Eastern Africa would not compromise the last proposed model. It could be suggested that these E-M96 Saudi lineages have a sub-Saharan Africa ancestry. However, at least for one of them, all their known male ancestors belong to a big Shammar Arab tribe that ruled much of central and northern Arabia from Riyadh to the frontiers of Syria and northern Iraq. In addition, it might be present in Lebanon [18].


Read more: http://egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=bag&action=display&thread=982#ixzz1hmsktNvg

quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:
Originally posted by typeZeiss:
I wanted to know if any of you guys know of any research as to who are the blacks living in Palestine today. Are they the original "hebrew", left over Phoenicians maybe?

Here is a video of some of them http://youtu.be/7XbxeEgCNtY

I know some people get confused as to who the current Jews are, but there is a Jewish historian named Shlomo Sand. "The name of his book is "the Invention of the Jewish People". There is another good book called "The Thirteenth Tribe" by Arthur Koestler. These books talk about who the present day Jews are, how they came to be Jews etc.

You can see a video of him (Shlomo Sand) giving a lecture on the subject here http://youtu.be/1EmvANgw9Mk

I had a good friend from Palestine and once he told me about the blacks living there. I had never heard of them before him telling me. He didn't know much about them himself, other than his fathers best friend was one of them.

Most of these Blacks are descendants of Muslims who made the pilgrimage to Jerusalem and decided to stay in the region.

.


Posts: 9995 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
xyyman
Banned
Member # 13597

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for xyyman   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
from another site. I am still reseraching. Mike as always, on point.

==

The Shammar are an Arabian Bedouin tribe. According to legend the Shammar originated in modern day Jordan and they are descendants of the Midianites. However they would later migrate into Northern and Central Arabia.Other legend states that the Shammar originated in Yemen. However it is stated that the Shammar had strong alliance and blood with the Ghassanids and Lakhmids. The Shammar tribe once ruled most of Arabia, and they had a state known as Jebal Shammar in Northern Arabia under quasi-independence however there loyalty to the Ottoman Empire was unquestioned. Unlike other Arabians tribes the Shammar did not partake in the Arab revolt, but wanted to crush it. The Sauds and the British would force the Shammar to be expelled from their ancient homeland into what is now Iraq. The tribe was almost eradicated by the British, with few remains are to be found in Arabia. Today 90% of the Shammar tribe lives in Iraq, and made Tikrit and Mosul to be their homeland. Always distinguished by their dark skin, eyes and small built and often to this day keep the nomadic lifestyle of their ancestors. The Toga clan of the Shammar who settled in the Southern parts of Iraq adopted Shia Islam. Today there are still blood links and relationships between these two groups. During the Baathist times the Shammar faced increasing marginalization despite they were mostly Sunnis and of Arab origins, this was because their nomadic culture was seen to be a hindrance to modernization

--------------------
Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming

Posts: 9995 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
xyyman
Banned
Member # 13597

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for xyyman   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
anyone has this?

=====

The Emerging Picture of Prehistoric Arabia

Annual Review of Anthropology

Vol. 15: 461-490 (Volume publication date October 1986)

DOI: 10.1146/annurev.an.15.100186.002333

--------------------
Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming

Posts: 9995 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
xyyman
Banned
Member # 13597

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for xyyman   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The origin of Eastern European Jews revealed by autosomal, sex chromosomal and mtDNA polymorphisms.

Zoossmann-Diskin A.


Source

Department of Haematology and Genetic Pathology, School of Medicine, Flinders University, Adelaide, Australia. Avshalom.Zoossmann-Diskin@sheba.health.gov.il


Abstract

BACKGROUND:

This study aims to establish the likely origin of EEJ (Eastern European Jews) by genetic distance analysis of autosomal markers and haplogroups on the X and Y chromosomes and mtDNA.

RESULTS:

According to the autosomal polymorphisms the investigated Jewish populations do not share a common origin, and EEJ are closer to Italians in particular and to Europeans in general than to the other Jewish populations. The similarity of EEJ to Italians and Europeans is also supported by the X chromosomal haplogroups. In contrast according to the Y-chromosomal haplogroups EEJ are closest to the non-Jewish populations of the Eastern Mediterranean. MtDNA shows a mixed pattern, but overall EEJ are more distant from most populations and hold a marginal rather than a central position. The autosomal genetic distance matrix has a very high correlation (0.789) with geography, whereas the X-chromosomal, Y-chromosomal and mtDNA matrices have a lower correlation (0.540, 0.395 and 0.641 respectively).

CONCLUSIONS:

The close genetic resemblance to Italians accords with the historical presumption that Ashkenazi Jews started their migrations across Europe in Italy and with historical evidence that conversion to Judaism was common in ancient Rome. The reasons for the discrepancy between the biparental markers and the uniparental markers are discussed

--------------------
Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming

Posts: 9995 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
xyyman
Banned
Member # 13597

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for xyyman   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Translation.. . . Original Arabs were probably black people, part of Greater Africa. Note: Non-arabs do not have sub-saharan lineage.


======
Extensive female-mediated gene flow from sub-Saharan Africa into near eastern Arab populations.

Richards M, Rengo C, Cruciani F, Gratrix F, Wilson JF, Scozzari R, Macaulay V, Torroni A.


Source

Department of Chemical and Biological Sciences, University of Huddersfield, Huddersfield, United Kingdom. m.b.richards@hud.ac.uk


Abstract

We have analyzed and compared mitochondrial DNA variation of populations from the Near East and Africa and found a very high frequency of African lineages present in the Yemen Hadramawt: more than a third were of clear sub-Saharan origin. Other Arab populations carried approximately 10% lineages of sub-Saharan origin, whereas non-Arab Near Eastern populations, by contrast, carried few or no such lineages, suggesting that gene flow has been preferentially into Arab populations. Several lines of evidence suggest that most of this gene flow probably occurred within the past approximately 2,500 years. In contrast, there is little evidence for male-mediated gene flow from sub-Saharan Africa in Y-chromosome haplotypes in Arab populations, including the Hadramawt. Taken together, these results are consistent with substantial migration from eastern Africa into Arabia, at least in part as a result of the Arab slave trade, and mainly female assimilation into the Arabian population as a result of miscegenation and manumission.

--------------------
Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming

Posts: 9995 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
-Just Call Me Jari-
Member
Member # 14451

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for -Just Call Me Jari-     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I don't see how this helps your case, all this onedoes is corroborate historical data that African Women were heavily enslaved In Arabia while African Men were castrated and left few offspring.

quote:
Originally posted by xyyman:
Translation.. . . Original Arabs were probably black people, part of Greater Africa. Note: Non-arabs do not have sub-saharan lineage.


======
Extensive female-mediated gene flow from sub-Saharan Africa into near eastern Arab populations.

Richards M, Rengo C, Cruciani F, Gratrix F, Wilson JF, Scozzari R, Macaulay V, Torroni A.


Source

Department of Chemical and Biological Sciences, University of Huddersfield, Huddersfield, United Kingdom. m.b.richards@hud.ac.uk


Abstract

We have analyzed and compared mitochondrial DNA variation of populations from the Near East and Africa and found a very high frequency of African lineages present in the Yemen Hadramawt: more than a third were of clear sub-Saharan origin. Other Arab populations carried approximately 10% lineages of sub-Saharan origin, whereas non-Arab Near Eastern populations, by contrast, carried few or no such lineages, suggesting that gene flow has been preferentially into Arab populations. Several lines of evidence suggest that most of this gene flow probably occurred within the past approximately 2,500 years. In contrast, there is little evidence for male-mediated gene flow from sub-Saharan Africa in Y-chromosome haplotypes in Arab populations, including the Hadramawt. Taken together, these results are consistent with substantial migration from eastern Africa into Arabia, at least in part as a result of the Arab slave trade, and mainly female assimilation into the Arabian population as a result of miscegenation and manumission.


Posts: 7970 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
typeZeiss
Member
Member # 18859

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for typeZeiss   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
[qb] Also this notion that the blacks in the near East and Palestine are descendants of Slaves and Pilgrims is hogwash. We have Images of blacks in the Neat East going back to A. Egyptian times, further some of the blacks in Palestine are Bedouins and Christians..

So when do slaves of Muslims suddenly become Bedouins or Muslim to Christianity??

Christian Palestinians in Gaza..(noted the Ethiopians have always maintained a presence in Jerusalem but this does not mean every black Christian in Palestine in Ethiopian, considering that the presence of Ethiopians would have been small to begin with.)


Some Bedouins..

Negev


Arab Bedouins

/qb]

I have ruled out them being pilgrims for two reasons 1. Muslims do NOT do a pilgrimage to Jerusalem so that makes no sense 2. You would not go all the way to Palestine to then head south to Mecca so that leaves out people going there on their way to Hajj. I guess someone who knows nothing about Islam could argue that Muslims prayed toward Jerusalem first. But this ignores the fact, Hajj was not instituted at that time and this was in the first few years of Islam, well before africans in any significant number accepted Islam.

I am not very familiar with the history of Palestine but I know Iraq and Persia/Iran had/has blacks in it from antiquity and the people of Elam were classified as Ethiopians by the Greeks.

Posts: 1280 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
typeZeiss
Member
Member # 18859

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for typeZeiss   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by xyyman:
The origin of Eastern European Jews revealed by autosomal, sex chromosomal and mtDNA polymorphisms.

Zoossmann-Diskin A.


Source

Department of Haematology and Genetic Pathology, School of Medicine, Flinders University, Adelaide, Australia. Avshalom.Zoossmann-Diskin@sheba.health.gov.il


Abstract

BACKGROUND:

This study aims to establish the likely origin of EEJ (Eastern European Jews) by genetic distance analysis of autosomal markers and haplogroups on the X and Y chromosomes and mtDNA.

RESULTS:

According to the autosomal polymorphisms the investigated Jewish populations do not share a common origin, and EEJ are closer to Italians in particular and to Europeans in general than to the other Jewish populations. The similarity of EEJ to Italians and Europeans is also supported by the X chromosomal haplogroups. In contrast according to the Y-chromosomal haplogroups EEJ are closest to the non-Jewish populations of the Eastern Mediterranean. MtDNA shows a mixed pattern, but overall EEJ are more distant from most populations and hold a marginal rather than a central position. The autosomal genetic distance matrix has a very high correlation (0.789) with geography, whereas the X-chromosomal, Y-chromosomal and mtDNA matrices have a lower correlation (0.540, 0.395 and 0.641 respectively).

CONCLUSIONS:

The close genetic resemblance to Italians accords with the historical presumption that Ashkenazi Jews started their migrations across Europe in Italy and with historical evidence that conversion to Judaism was common in ancient Rome. The reasons for the discrepancy between the biparental markers and the uniparental markers are discussed

You may find this interesting http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EmvANgw9Mk

also look for a book called "The Thirteenth Tribe"

Posts: 1280 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
xyyman
Banned
Member # 13597

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for xyyman   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The point – recent Africans (Hg-E) have been entering Saudi Arabia continuously since the LGM. These PN2 claders have historically been in Saudi Arabia since the LGM. And for those who missed it – over 90% of Saudi Arabia IS in the high UV belt. Therefore depigmentation did not take place and they remained BLACK!!! It was only when they stopped eat fish they became white(Wink! Wink!)


Quote:
Conclusion
The Y-chromosome genetic structure of the Arabian Peninsula seems to be mainly modulated by geography. The data confirm that this area has mainly been a recipient of gene flow from its African and Asian surrounding areas, probably mainly since the last Glacial maximum onwards. Although rare deep rooting lineages for Y chromosome haplogroups E and J have been detected, the presence of more basal clades supportive of the southern exit route of modern humans to Eurasian, were not found.


quote:
Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
I don't see how this helps your case, all this onedoes is corroborate historical data that African Women were heavily enslaved In Arabia while African Men were castrated and left few offspring.

quote:
Originally posted by xyyman:
Translation.. . . Original Arabs were probably black people, part of Greater Africa. Note: Non-arabs do not have sub-saharan lineage.


======
Extensive female-mediated gene flow from sub-Saharan Africa into near eastern Arab populations.

Richards M, Rengo C, Cruciani F, Gratrix F, Wilson JF, Scozzari R, Macaulay V, Torroni A.


Source

Department of Chemical and Biological Sciences, University of Huddersfield, Huddersfield, United Kingdom. m.b.richards@hud.ac.uk


Abstract

We have analyzed and compared mitochondrial DNA variation of populations from the Near East and Africa and found a very high frequency of African lineages present in the Yemen Hadramawt: more than a third were of clear sub-Saharan origin. Other Arab populations carried approximately 10% lineages of sub-Saharan origin, whereas non-Arab Near Eastern populations, by contrast, carried few or no such lineages, suggesting that gene flow has been preferentially into Arab populations. Several lines of evidence suggest that most of this gene flow probably occurred within the past approximately 2,500 years. In contrast, there is little evidence for male-mediated gene flow from sub-Saharan Africa in Y-chromosome haplotypes in Arab populations, including the Hadramawt. Taken together, these results are consistent with substantial migration from eastern Africa into Arabia, at least in part as a result of the Arab slave trade, and mainly female assimilation into the Arabian population as a result of miscegenation and manumission.



Posts: 9995 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Whatbox
Member
Member # 10819

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Whatbox   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by typeZeiss:
I have ruled out them being pilgrims for two reasons 1. Muslims do NOT do a pilgrimage to Jerusalem so that makes no sense 2. You would not go all the way to Palestine to then head south to Mecca so that leaves out people going there on their way to Hajj. I guess someone who knows nothing about Islam could argue that Muslims prayed toward Jerusalem first. But this ignores the fact, Hajj was not instituted at that time and this was in the first few years of Islam, well before africans in any significant number accepted Islam.

I am not very familiar with the history of Palestine but I know Iraq and Persia/Iran had/has blacks in it from antiquity and the people of Elam were classified as Ethiopians by the Greeks.

Here's the thing, I would think that Elam were "Eastern Ethiopians". They were considered different than Western Ethiopians. It was the hair -- Eastern ones just basically looked Indian, meaning they were dark, but had straight hair.

Jari mentions Caanan, Arabia, Sumer, and Elam, mentioning Ethiopians. I would say some of these places indeed had them -- I would say these were mixed though. Now Arabia was definitely pretty "Ethiopian" influenced at times and places, it's just that if he meant African (a.k.a. Western) Ethiopians, I might include it (Arabia), to a much lesser extant depending on the time, Caanan, and to a lesser extent Southern Sumer. But Sumer and Elam I would probably classify as being Eastern Ethiopian, in other words Asiatic, not African.

Elamites did appear to have may-be-kinky braided hair though, but then there are still people in Asia to this day, in the Southern areas who are indigenous (just as genetically distant from Africa as other Asians, if not moreso distant from African than any group of people such as Oceanians) and yet retain the two traits of darker skin and different (kinky) hair, so these and Elamites if they resembled these may be remnants to more ancient type that existed in the region.

Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
typeZeiss
Member
Member # 18859

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for typeZeiss   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Whatbox:
quote:
Originally posted by typeZeiss:
I have ruled out them being pilgrims for two reasons 1. Muslims do NOT do a pilgrimage to Jerusalem so that makes no sense 2. You would not go all the way to Palestine to then head south to Mecca so that leaves out people going there on their way to Hajj. I guess someone who knows nothing about Islam could argue that Muslims prayed toward Jerusalem first. But this ignores the fact, Hajj was not instituted at that time and this was in the first few years of Islam, well before africans in any significant number accepted Islam.

I am not very familiar with the history of Palestine but I know Iraq and Persia/Iran had/has blacks in it from antiquity and the people of Elam were classified as Ethiopians by the Greeks.

Here's the thing, I would think that Elam were "Eastern Ethiopians". They were considered different than Western Ethiopians. It was the hair -- Eastern ones just basically looked Indian, meaning they were dark, but had straight hair.

Jari mentions Caanan, Arabia, Sumer, and Elam, mentioning Ethiopians. I would say some of these places indeed had them -- I would say these were mixed though. Now Arabia was definitely pretty "Ethiopian" influenced at times and places, it's just that if he meant African (a.k.a. Western) Ethiopians, I might include it (Arabia), to a much lesser extant depending on the time, Caanan, and to a lesser extent Southern Sumer. But Sumer and Elam I would probably classify as being Eastern Ethiopian, in other words Asiatic, not African.

Elamites did appear to have may-be-kinky braided hair though, but then there are still people in Asia to this day, in the Southern areas who are indigenous (just as genetically distant from Africa as other Asians, if not moreso distant from African than any group of people such as Oceanians) and yet retain the two traits of darker skin and different (kinky) hair, so these and Elamites if they resembled these may be remnants to more ancient type that existed in the region.

I think you need to travel to these places my friend. In Iraq today they have blacks that look no different than a average Sierra Leonean. SOME of them were brought there as slaves, but you have another group along the Euphrates that were referred to as foorati (someone from the Euphrates area). These are the indigenous ones, and the ones who have been there from the beginning. I read a doctoral paper speaking about slavery in Iraq during the time of the Khalifat and it was amusing. The person spoke of the different types of slaves, from white arabs, to berbers to the different type of Black slaves. He mentioned the "nubian", The garmantian etc. Then he mentions the foorati, claiming they were called such because they worked on the Euphrates, draining it. Never mind he mentioned in the same article that some of the other groups of blacks also worked on the Euphrates doing the same work. yet magically this group can't be indigenous, they must have come from some where else. lol, so foolish these people are.

I have seen blacks ALL over Iran that would make you think they are from Nigeria. I have also seen blacks in India, Pakistan, and Georgia (the country, not the state) who also look like they could be Yoruba, Mende or maybe even Wolof or Peule. You are using terms in regard to hair based on mixed people you have seen in these regions. There is a mulatto element there and why shouldn't there be? We are talking THOUSANDS of years since the Europeans left the caves of Europe and Asia and pushed down into these areas. Of course there will be mixing. However in the southern regions of these areas, there are purely black people to this day.

We know that the blacks of Elam had to have been African because of the language used to decipher their language. You should check out a book called "memoirs of cuneiform" by Sir Henry Rawlinson. He is the man who cracked cuneiform and he explains who he feels the people were.

As to Oceanic blacks, don't believe the lies these people tell you. They just did a study not to long ago linking the people of either Papua New Guinea or one of those places to black africans. These people will stop at nothing in their lies. I think that is part of the problem with black people. We under estimate just how deviant these eurocentric types are in their lies. My family is West African and I can assure you, African's are just as bad as the diaspora in understanding just how far these people will go to distort our history.

P.S.

Have you ever seen the people off the coast of India in the Adaman Islands? Look at this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwRY6nbq424

These are Jawara people. My theory is as Africans moved from Africa to Asia they ended up in one of three states. 1. they built great civilizations, settled in and you can still see their decendents and admixtures among them. Their original look would have been like any other african, in their original state but because of admixture some of them now have the present look they have i.e. some dravidians. State 2. They didn't mix much with the local people either because there weren't any locals at the time and they have remained relatively isolated. and state 3. is like state 2 except they may have gone from a more civilized state to a more primitive way of life. This can happen in two generations easily. So imagine what thousands of years can do.

Prime example is greece or even Kemet. Kemet they went from ruling the world to making mud brick homes and forgetting how to sail the seas. It would only take one generation for the old timers with the expertise to die off and then things would go down hill from there. In the case of Greece, they went from ruling to becoming a backwater colony of boy lovers once the source of their knowledge was cut off (kemet via the roman empire expansion). Last example would be Europe during the dark ages. Though Europe outside of Rome and Greece never did much in antiquity, they still had some sources of civilization to draw from. ONce the dark ages hit, they digressed into a slave state full of ignorance and debauchery.

Posts: 1280 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
xyyman
Banned
Member # 13597

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for xyyman   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Keep in in the back of your mind because some people look the same or similar doesn't mean they ARE the same.

Andaman Islanders are NOT closely related to West Africans, etc. . .

That is the same type of "science" C-Ass uses. Thread carefully..


Leave the "eye-ball" science to C-ass and Co. also Lioness. . .although he/she/they is getting better.

Posts: 9995 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
typeZeiss
Member
Member # 18859

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for typeZeiss   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by xyyman:
Keep in in the back of your mind because some people look the same or similar doesn't mean they ARE the same.

Andaman Islanders are NOT closely related to West Africans, etc. . .

That is the same type of "science" C-Ass uses. Thread carefully..


Leave the "eye-ball" science to C-ass and Co. also Lioness. . .although he/she/they is getting better.

1. Whatbox tried to make a distinction between African Looking people and Australoid people which I would assume he would liken to the native in Australia for example. He seemed to be stating that the people of Elam and other areas were these Australoid type instead of the African type black. This is impossible because The native Australian in my opinion is a admixture of African and Neanderthal or whatever primitive thing Africans mixed with along their journey. There was a DNA test done on Australian natives not to long ago and it showed they had a high percentage of Neanderthal DNA which in my opinion explains their odd look. The same was said for the people of New Guinea.

2. Everyone came out of Africa, PERIOD. So the question is only of two types. Are they still the same stock as they were when they left i.e. did they mix a lot, did they mutate (as in the case of whites) or are they a mixture of either primitive and African i.e. very early admixture as in the case of the Australian "Black" or was it a mix between the black and the mutated group i.e. black and present day white as in the case of Arabs, some persians, some indians etc.

So to further what I am saying, I do not believe the people of Elam were west african. They were of African decent, were they recent arrivals? I don't know. Did they come from the east of Africa? If Rawlinson is to be believed, then yes, they were.

Check this out link

So as I said earlier, to not be so quick to buy into this crap Euros try and sell us on our people, its foolishness. Just think about it.

I should also stress, I do not believe current day West Africans were in West Africa during the time of Elam or the time Africans made it to India for example. Present day west africans arrived in west africa not to long ago. I think some came out of the nile valley and others came out of the sahara. If you read any of Diops books he gives good information on this point. So does Muhammad Ghadallah (I think thats his name). I forget the name of Mr. Ghadallah's book though. There are also a few other books on the subject, but I forget their names. I think west africa was mostly pygmy until very recently.

Posts: 1280 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
the lioness is a guy IRL
Member
Member # 18409

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for the lioness is a guy IRL     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Original Arabs were probably black people, part of Greater Africa
Wrong. Arabs = Arabid/Mediterranoid with a weak Australoid substratum. Although today most are mixed with Negroid or Mongoloid. The original Arabs were Caucasoid.

They also had a Nordic ruling elite.

Nordic Arabs

There appears to have been a blond, racially Nordic element, amongst the leadership of the Arabic peoples, from the very earliest times. Thus, as the distinguished Harvard anthropologist Carleton S. Coon has noted, when referring to the population of the Yemen plateau:

"The Nordic-looking people are usually confined to the social stratum from which civil officers and religious men are drawn, and it is more than a coincidence that the acknowledged descendants of the Prophet are lighter-skinned and show greater evidence of blondism than the rest of the population. There may perhaps have been a Nordic strain associated with the holy families who entered this region from the Hejaz in early post-Islamic times." [Coon (1939) 408-409.]

Professor C. S. Coon has also stated, that amongst the people of Morocco:

"The ordinary city Arabs are little different from their pastoral and agricultural brethren, but this rule does not apply to the aristocratic families. These merchant-princes are sometimes blond, and of Nordic appearance; others of them look like Mekkan aristocrats in Arabia." [Coon (1939) 484.]

The Prophet Muhammad (AD 570-632), the founder of the Islamic religion, was apparently fair-skinned; a freedman, by the name of Umar, described the Prophet thus:

"his face was not fat nor rounded; it was white tinged with red". [Guillaume (1987) 726.]

Most authorities on the issue appear to agree that Muhammad was brunet, but Henric von Schwerin has stated that:

"Red-hair is still honoured amongst Moslems as the Prophet Mohammed himself was reported to have red hair." [von Schwerin (1960) 27.]

During her lifetime Aisha, the Prophet's beloved wife, gained the epithet humayra, a word which has been translated as "light," "reddish," or "fair," but whose meaning can be most accurately rendered as "blonde." [Baltzer (1934) 206; Lewis (1990) 36; Vollers (1910) 91.] Subsequently, she has become known to the Islamic peoples as "Aisha the Blonde." [Günther (1930) 168.]

Abu Bakr, the father of Aisha, and thus, the father-in-law of Muhammad, was the first Caliph of Islam (AD 632-634). He was slenderly built, and white-skinned; also, he dyed his grey beard red, in an attempt to gain a more youthful appearance - possibly in imitation and pursuance of a fair-haired, Nordic ideal. [Günther (1930) 163.]

Caliph Ali (AD 656-661), a first cousin and son-in-law of Muhammad, was also renowned for his blond hair, as were his descendants, who founded the Shi'ite branch of Islam. [Grant (1981) 84-85; Lewis (1990) 36.] However, it was bitterly resented by some Muslims, that the physical features which characterised a true descendant of Muhammad, were steadily being lost, due to admixture with darker races. Thus, as the Syrian poet Abu'l-Ala (AD 973-1057), remarked in a letter:

"We often see a man of mark who has in his house women of high degree setting above them a girl in a striped gown purchased for a few coins and so we may see a man whose grandfather on the father's side is a fair-haired descendant of Ali while his maternal grandfather is a black idolator." [Lewis (1990) 89.]

In the mid-eleventh-century, the Hispano-Muslim author Ibn García penned his Risala, which expressed similar sentiments, linking blondness with nobility and superiority:

"Of Roman origin and blond, Byzantine lineage, fostered by the possessors of inner virtue, lineal glory, and greatness among the blond ones . . . soft-skinned ones among whom neither the Egyptians nor the Nabateans have implanted; family honour well-guarded and noble lineage."

It would also appear that many of the numerous and diverse rulers of Moorish Spain, were racially Nordic; the Spanish historian Enrique Sordo, informs us that:

"Most of the caliphs were fair or ginger-haired with blue eyes, which seems to show a preponderance of Berber or Germanic blood. As they were extremely proud of their origin, some of them dyed their hair black, as if to affirm their Arab descent." [Sordo (1962) 24.]

This trend towards blondism began with the very first independent Muslim ruler of the Iberian Peninsula. Abd al-Rahman I (AD 756-788), the founder of the Cordoban Emirate, was a Syrian from the Damascus region, and belonged to the imperial Umayyad family: he was a grandson of Caliph Hisham (AD 724-743). His mother was a Berber slave-girl, and his father was the Syrio-Arab Umayyad, Muawiya. He is said to have been a "colossal red-haired man". [Grant (1981) 90; Sordo (1962) 23.]

Stanley G. Payne also provides another example of a fair-haired ruler in Muslim Spain:

"An effectively unified state was finally achieved during the long reign of Abd-al-Rahman III (912-961). The son of a Navarrese princess, this greatest of Cordoban rulers was a short, blue-eyed Muslim who dyed his red hair black to match that of most of his subjects. In 929 he took the step of raising his dominion from an emirate, or kingdom, to a caliphate, or empire." [Payne (1973) 23.]

The fourteenth-century historian Ali ibn Abd Allah, in his Roudh el Kartas, described a Moorish Sultan of the time, Muhammed ben Idriss, as "blond".

In 1232, Muhammad b. Yusuf b. Nasr from Banu 'l-Ahmar, made himself the Sultan of the kingdom of Granada, a feat which he achieved by consolidating several Muslim petty kingdoms in southern Spain. Muhammad I was known as Ibn al Ahmar (son of the red), because of his red hair; he was the founder of the Nasrid dynasty, and ruled from 1232 to 1273. [Sordo (1962) 120; Vollers (1910) 87.]

This trait appears to have continued, even into later periods. Abu 'l-Hadjdjadj Yusuf I, the Nasrid Sultan of Granada from 1333-1354, has been described in the following terms:

"He was of noble bearing and was endowed with extraordinary physical strength and good looks. His skin was too pale however, and, according to Arab historians, he increased his grave and majestic appearance by growing a beard which he dyed very black." [Sordo (1962) 120-121.]

Ultimately, Moorish Spain ended as it had begun: with a fair-haired ruler. Muhammad XII [Boabdil], was the last Sultan of Granada (AD 1482-1483, 1487-1492); Enrique Sordo depicts him thus:

"Among the paintings in the gallery of the Generalife Palace hangs Boabdil's portrait. In it his countenance is kindly, handsome and melancholy, his complexion rubicund and his hair blond." [Sordo (1962) 124.]

Islamic Egypt also possessed several Nordic rulers of significance. Al-Nasir Yusuf Salah al-Din [Saladin] (AD 1171-1193), founded the Ayyubid Dynasty (AD 1171-1254), when he was invested with the governance of Egypt and Syria. He was of Kurdish ancestry, and his contemporaries stated that he was tall, handsome, fair-skinned and light-eyed. [Fossier (1968) 315; Günther (1927) 151; Weyl (1967) 41.] Robert Gayre of Gayre informs us that:

"Salah-ed-din and many of his followers had Kurdish and northern blood which accounted for their lighter colouring..." [Gayre of Gayre (1972) 97.]

Al-Nasir al-Hasan, who was Sultan from 1347-1351, and then from 1354-1361, was one of the last rulers of the Turkic Bahri Mamluk Dynasty, which ruled Egypt from 1250-1390. According to the Medieval chronicalist Ibn Iyas, he had a blond beard and dull-blue eyes. [Baltzer (1934) 210; Vollers (1910) 95.]

Sultan Al-Nasir Faraj (AD 1399-1412), was the son of Al-Zahir Barquq [Burji] (AD 1382-1389, 1390-1399), the first of the Burji Mamluk rulers; the Dynasty reigned from 1390 to 1517, and was mostly of Circassian descent. Ibn Iyas stated that he was blond-bearded; he also noted that both Al-Nasir al-Hasan and Al-Nasir Faraj, possessed what he described as "Arab faces," which meant that they had long, noble countenances. [Baltzer (1934) 210; Vollers (1910) 95.]

Ibn Iyas also observed that Sultan Al-Mansur Qalaun (AD 1279-1290), of the Bahri Mamluk Dynasty, had fair hair and a fair complexion. [Vollers (1910) 91.]

During the period of Ottoman rule, Nordic racial elements once again achieved a position of ascendency in the Islamic world. Orhan (AD 1324-1362), the son of Osman I (AD 1280-1324), who was the founder of Ottoman rule in Anatolia, was the first of that dynasty to use the title "Sultan." He is described as being very tall, broad-shouldered, fair-skinned, light-eyed and blond-haired. The German physical anthropologist Professor Hans F. K. Günther, considers him to have been predominantly Nordic in type. [Günther (1934) 189-190.]

Mehmed II (AD 1451-1481), known as the Conqueror, was the Ottoman Sultan that ended the Byzantine Empire, and who occupied the city of Constantinople, converting it into Istanbul. A contemporary miniature of Mehmed, painted by the artist Sinan Bey, depicts him as a light-skinned, light-haired and light-eyed man. [Reader's Digest Association (1974) 127.]

Ottoman rule over North Africa - Algiers, Tripoli, Tunis - was extended and consolidated by the brothers Aruj and Kheir-ed-Din Barbarossa. The name Barbarossa stems from the Italian word for "Redbeard," and the brothers acquired this surname because of their ginger hair. [Baltzer (1934) 211.] Kheir-ed-Din (d. 1546), was appointed Regent of Algiers in 1530, and his reign was largely a success. [Mitchell (1976) 137.] Hans F. K. Günther refers to him as:

"the Viking-like Khair-ed-din Barbarossa, the founder of Osman [Ottoman] rule in North Africa, the red-bearded son of a Greek from Lesbos." [Günther (1927) 173.]

The link given below, leads to a web page which contains depictions of every one of the Ottoman Sultans. It is interesting to observe how many have reddish hair, light eyes, or a fair complexion.

http://almashriq.hiof.no/turkey/900/950/956/sultans/thumbnails.html

We may also note that the Algerian national hero Emir Abd al-Qadir al-Jaza'iri (AD 1807-1883), who fought the French attempts to occupy his country in the 1830s and 1840s, appears to have been blue-eyed. [von Schwerin (1960) 28; von Schwerin (1964) 129-130.]

Posts: 2408 | From: ??? | Registered: Dec 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Whatbox
Member
Member # 10819

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Whatbox   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by typeZeiss:
I think you need to travel to these places my friend. [...]

Our replies essentially agree in that there exist both a migrant and original (indigenous) black element in Asia. My reply was more geared to the Greeks "AEthiopian" appellation that was brought up in a previous post, and just to whom it was applied and to whom it referred to.

They made mention of an Eastern Indian type which I think even the Sumer region was talked about as having, and differentiated it from the norm of a Western type.

I have however become aware of kinky-headed blacks in Irans Southern areas, whom Doug M. has spoken of as indigenous.

I've met a number of millitary men, blacks and whites, who've been to Iraq and made effort to mention of "there are black people live there" to me, seemingly as if not totally having expected it.

quote:
We know that the blacks of Elam had to have been African because of the language used to decipher their language. You should check out a book called "memoirs of cuneiform" by Sir Henry Rawlinson. He is the man who cracked cuneiform and he explains who he feels the people were.
Sounds interesting.

quote:
As to Oceanic blacks, don't believe the lies these people tell you.
lol man, I don't have to. And you'll find out shortly just what I mean by that.

quote:
They just did a study not to long ago linking the people of either Papua New Guinea or one of those places to black africans. These people will stop at nothing in their lies. I think that is part of the problem
That's not the problem. If there's any problem here it's of a trivial nature like the fact of me making vague & general statements. Let me elaborate in a second...

And..

quote:
P.S.

Have you ever seen the people off the coast of India in the Adaman Islands? Look at this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwRY6nbq424

These are Jawara people.

..yes I'm aware of the Andamanese Islanders.

* If there indeed exist indigenous blacks in Asia as you and I both have it, then they would have come from a different - an indigenous - family line than any new incoming African immigrants they may potentially receive -- this is a simple fact of genetics / geneology. So (me, or you) saying there are a group of differentiated blacks in Asia does not equate to either of us having bought "lies".

* This holds true regardless of looks. It all boils down to genetics. And of course, as Asia's, or Eurasia's source population, of course South Asia's going to be connected to Africa, they like all of us ultimately descend from a group of incoming Africans.

* On Indians, Dravidians, and others, having straight hair, please note, that various groups of people who've been tested, such as those in the region of Eastern India, Han Chinese, Navajo, Maya and probably all Native American groups I'm aware of, regardless of the fact of how dark some of these groups can get, all have straighter hair than Europeans, which can actually get quite curly haired and probably have about wavy hair on average in its purest state.

 -


So if I were you I wouldn't automatically assume straight hair indicative of admixture just because it's found in folks darker than whites. I wouldn't assume say straight hair in Native Americans to be the result of their women getting raped at the hands of incoming whites. That would be to assume it a European trait. Asian ppl have straight hair 2. (Bear in mind I dig what you or especially the random {lay} person on the street is referring to when they equate straight and white hair, I'm just saying, because you *assumed* straight-haired darker skinned people in Asia to whom I was referring to be African-Euro or African-non-African mixes/mixed)

quote:
Prime example is greece or even Kemet. Kemet they went from ruling the world to making mud brick homes and forgetting how to sail the seas. It would only take one generation for the old timers with the expertise to die off and then things would go down hill from there. In the case of Greece, they went from ruling to becoming a backwater colony of boy lovers once the source of their knowledge was cut off (kemet via the roman empire expansion). Last example would be Europe during the dark ages. Though Europe outside of Rome and Greece never did much in antiquity, they still had some sources of civilization to draw from. ONce the dark ages hit, they digressed into a slave state full of ignorance and debauchery.
I find this to be an interesting topic in an of itself. One notable example you missed or perhaps took it to have already been taken care of and assumedly noted by default is that of the "Islamic golden era" in the Northern Middle East. Baghdad was once a wealthy well-off city, on a relative world-wide scale.
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Whatbox
Member
Member # 10819

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Whatbox   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by typeZeiss:
1. Whatbox tried to make a distinction between African Looking people and Australoid people which I would assume he would liken to the native in Australia for example.

I notice you type: "African Looking"

Just fyi, in the post you guys are referring to when I mentioned the Oceanians I wasn't speaking phenotypically, and so wasn't thinking of them in terms of phenotype -- so I wasn't making a distinction between the way they and Africans look.

quote:
He seemed to be stating that the people of Elam and other areas were these Australoid type instead of the African type black.
Partly on -- I was just informing you that in the case of more Eastward areas the "Ethiopians" - since the term was brought up as an ancient ethnonymic term (used by Greeks) - the Greco-Roman writers described there were described as being more straight haired.

quote:
native Australian in my opinion is a admixture of African and Neanderthal or whatever primitive thing Africans mixed with along their journey. There was a DNA test done on Australian natives not to long ago and it showed they had a high percentage of Neanderthal DNA which in my opinion explains their odd look. The same was said for the people of New Guinea.
Um, just fyi but the brow-ridge going back in time was probably more common in our species, although it is only existant in Australian Aboriginees today. So it may be a trait that lives on from remote times, in other words we didn't necessarily inherit them from Neanderthal because at one point in time we had them too -- for whatever reason, during the ages most regions just refined that feature out of their genepool. After all, Europeans are well noted for having Neanderthal ancestry and it was indeed a European species, and yet, no brow ridge. And I thought Neanderthal ancestry was affectily negligeable in modern humans anyway.

But yeah I'm aware Southern Asians of all types exist, wavy haired and wiry (kinky) haired. I understand way earlier in this thread (like days ago) I mentioned the word Australoid (/Veddoid) though, and even in the "Oceanian" post do mention the phenotype thing of Eastern Ethiopes re: the Greeks, so I can see where confusion may have occured.

For the record, all though various traits like tall & lanky, short & stout, dark, and light exist, I'm really not that stringent an adherent, or actually, not an adherent at all to classifications / typologies like "Veddoid" or "Australoid".

Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
xyyman
Banned
Member # 13597

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for xyyman   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
High percentage of Neanderthals in Australians., Huh? sigh!! [Roll Eyes]

They are coming out the woodwork. [Eek!]

Quote:

The native Australian in my opinion is a admixture of African and Neanderthal . . . .


. . . .There was a DNA test done on Australian natives not to long ago and it showed they had a high percentage of Neanderthal

Posts: 9995 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
typeZeiss
Member
Member # 18859

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for typeZeiss   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Whatbox:
quote:
Originally posted by typeZeiss:
I think you need to travel to these places my friend. [...]

Our replies essentially agree in that there exist both a migrant and original (indigenous) black element in Asia. My reply was more geared to the Greeks "AEthiopian" appellation that was brought up in a previous post, and just to whom it was applied and to whom it referred to.

They made mention of an Eastern Indian type which I think even the Sumer region was talked about as having, and differentiated it from the norm of a Western type.

I have however become aware of kinky-headed blacks in Irans Southern areas, whom Doug M. has spoken of as indigenous.

I've met a number of millitary men, blacks and whites, who've been to Iraq and made effort to mention of "there are black people live there" to me, seemingly as if not totally having expected it.

quote:
We know that the blacks of Elam had to have been African because of the language used to decipher their language. You should check out a book called "memoirs of cuneiform" by Sir Henry Rawlinson. He is the man who cracked cuneiform and he explains who he feels the people were.
Sounds interesting.

quote:
As to Oceanic blacks, don't believe the lies these people tell you.
lol man, I don't have to. And you'll find out shortly just what I mean by that.

quote:
They just did a study not to long ago linking the people of either Papua New Guinea or one of those places to black africans. These people will stop at nothing in their lies. I think that is part of the problem
That's not the problem. If there's any problem here it's of a trivial nature like the fact of me making vague & general statements. Let me elaborate in a second...

And..

quote:
P.S.

Have you ever seen the people off the coast of India in the Adaman Islands? Look at this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwRY6nbq424

These are Jawara people.

..yes I'm aware of the Andamanese Islanders.

* If there indeed exist indigenous blacks in Asia as you and I both have it, then they would have come from a different - an indigenous - family line than any new incoming African immigrants they may potentially receive -- this is a simple fact of genetics / geneology. So (me, or you) saying there are a group of differentiated blacks in Asia does not equate to either of us having bought "lies".

* This holds true regardless of looks. It all boils down to genetics. And of course, as Asia's, or Eurasia's source population, of course South Asia's going to be connected to Africa, they like all of us ultimately descend from a group of incoming Africans.

* On Indians, Dravidians, and others, having straight hair, please note, that various groups of people who've been tested, such as those in the region of Eastern India, Han Chinese, Navajo, Maya and probably all Native American groups I'm aware of, regardless of the fact of how dark some of these groups can get, all have straighter hair than Europeans, which can actually get quite curly haired and probably have about wavy hair on average in its purest state.


So if I were you I wouldn't automatically assume straight hair indicative of admixture just because it's found in folks darker than whites. I wouldn't assume say straight hair in Native Americans to be the result of their women getting raped at the hands of incoming whites. That would be to assume it a European trait. Asian ppl have straight hair 2. (Bear in mind I dig what you or especially the random {lay} person on the street is referring to when they equate straight and white hair, I'm just saying, because you *assumed* straight-haired darker skinned people in Asia to whom I was referring to be African-Euro or African-non-African mixes/mixed)

quote:
Prime example is greece or even Kemet. Kemet they went from ruling the world to making mud brick homes and forgetting how to sail the seas. It would only take one generation for the old timers with the expertise to die off and then things would go down hill from there. In the case of Greece, they went from ruling to becoming a backwater colony of boy lovers once the source of their knowledge was cut off (kemet via the roman empire expansion). Last example would be Europe during the dark ages. Though Europe outside of Rome and Greece never did much in antiquity, they still had some sources of civilization to draw from. ONce the dark ages hit, they digressed into a slave state full of ignorance and debauchery.
I find this to be an interesting topic in an of itself. One notable example you missed or perhaps took it to have already been taken care of and assumedly noted by default is that of the "Islamic golden era" in the Northern Middle East. Baghdad was once a wealthy well-off city, on a relative world-wide scale.

I see where you are coming form. I didn't bring up Mid. East in my points because it escaped me at that time. As to the straight hair and not being of African origin, I also get your point. [Wink]
Posts: 1280 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Clyde Winters
Member
Member # 10129

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Clyde Winters   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by typeZeiss:
quote:
Originally posted by xyyman:
Keep in in the back of your mind because some people look the same or similar doesn't mean they ARE the same.

Andaman Islanders are NOT closely related to West Africans, etc. . .

That is the same type of "science" C-Ass uses. Thread carefully..


Leave the "eye-ball" science to C-ass and Co. also Lioness. . .although he/she/they is getting better.

1. Whatbox tried to make a distinction between African Looking people and Australoid people which I would assume he would liken to the native in Australia for example. He seemed to be stating that the people of Elam and other areas were these Australoid type instead of the African type black. This is impossible because The native Australian in my opinion is a admixture of African and Neanderthal or whatever primitive thing Africans mixed with along their journey. There was a DNA test done on Australian natives not to long ago and it showed they had a high percentage of Neanderthal DNA which in my opinion explains their odd look. The same was said for the people of New Guinea.

2. Everyone came out of Africa, PERIOD. So the question is only of two types. Are they still the same stock as they were when they left i.e. did they mix a lot, did they mutate (as in the case of whites) or are they a mixture of either primitive and African i.e. very early admixture as in the case of the Australian "Black" or was it a mix between the black and the mutated group i.e. black and present day white as in the case of Arabs, some persians, some indians etc.

So to further what I am saying, I do not believe the people of Elam were west african. They were of African decent, were they recent arrivals? I don't know. Did they come from the east of Africa? If Rawlinson is to be believed, then yes, they were.

Check this out link

So as I said earlier, to not be so quick to buy into this crap Euros try and sell us on our people, its foolishness. Just think about it.

I should also stress, I do not believe current day West Africans were in West Africa during the time of Elam or the time Africans made it to India for example. Present day west africans arrived in west africa not to long ago. I think some came out of the nile valley and others came out of the sahara. If you read any of Diops books he gives good information on this point. So does Muhammad Ghadallah (I think thats his name). I forget the name of Mr. Ghadallah's book though. There are also a few other books on the subject, but I forget their names. I think west africa was mostly pygmy until very recently.

You are correct. Europeans have attempted to divide Black people to keep us down.

They teach the lie there was only one out of Africa (OOA) event to make it appear that the founders of the historic river valley civilizations were not Africans, eventhough history makes it clear that the Indus Valley, Egypt, and Sumerian were all founded by Kushite people.

They also spread the lie there is only one type of negro, the 'true negro', rather than admitting that the so-called "fine" features associated with Europeans are really African features.

.

Posts: 12261 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
typeZeiss
Member
Member # 18859

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for typeZeiss   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Whatbox:
quote:
Originally posted by typeZeiss:
1. Whatbox tried to make a distinction between African Looking people and Australoid people which I would assume he would liken to the native in Australia for example.

I notice you type: "African Looking"

Just fyi, in the post you guys are referring to when I mentioned the Oceanians I wasn't speaking phenotypically, and so wasn't thinking of them in terms of phenotype -- so I wasn't making a distinction between the way they and Africans look.

quote:
He seemed to be stating that the people of Elam and other areas were these Australoid type instead of the African type black.
Partly on -- I was just informing you that in the case of more Eastward areas the "Ethiopians" - since the term was brought up as an ancient ethnonymic term (used by Greeks) - the Greco-Roman writers described there were described as being more straight haired.

quote:
native Australian in my opinion is a admixture of African and Neanderthal or whatever primitive thing Africans mixed with along their journey. There was a DNA test done on Australian natives not to long ago and it showed they had a high percentage of Neanderthal DNA which in my opinion explains their odd look. The same was said for the people of New Guinea.
Um, just fyi but the brow-ridge going back in time was probably more common in our species, although it is only existant in Australian Aboriginees today. So it may be a trait that lives on from remote times, in other words we didn't necessarily inherit them from Neanderthal because at one point in time we had them too -- for whatever reason, during the ages most regions just refined that feature out of their genepool. After all, Europeans are well noted for having Neanderthal ancestry and it was indeed a European species, and yet, no brow ridge. And I thought Neanderthal ancestry was affectily negligeable in modern humans anyway.

But yeah I'm aware Southern Asians of all types exist, wavy haired and wiry (kinky) haired. I understand way earlier in this thread (like days ago) I mentioned the word Australoid (/Veddoid) though, and even in the "Oceanian" post do mention the phenotype thing of Eastern Ethiopes re: the Greeks, so I can see where confusion may have occured.

For the record, all though various traits like tall & lanky, short & stout, dark, and light exist, I'm really not that stringent an adherent, or actually, not an adherent at all to classifications / typologies like "Veddoid" or "Australoid".

I personally don't believe in Evolution so I will have to agree to disagree with you on the brow ridge thing.

Here is a article that talks about my point a little more link

There is another article I read that has more information as to how the people of Australia (aboriginal) and New Guinea have higher percentages of Neanderthal/Primitive DNA than most other groups. If I can find it I will post it.

Posts: 1280 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
-Just Call Me Jari-
Member
Member # 14451

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for -Just Call Me Jari-     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Here is some more history of blacks in the Holy Land...

We know that there were native Blacks in the Holy Land(see my previous posts) but there is a history of African blacks establishing themselves in the Holy Land and Canaan. One famous example is the Saint known as "St. Moses the Abysianian" or the Ethiopian or "St. Moses the Black" who established a Monastery in Syria..

 -

 -

 -

More on St. Moses..

http://diversejourneys.com/?p=691


Dont forget that the Monastery was an African/Nile Valley invention, the first Monasteries come from Egypt

You can see the native African design simiar to those found in the Sahara, Sahel and East Africa..

 -

 -

Posts: 7970 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
typeZeiss
Member
Member # 18859

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for typeZeiss   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by xyyman:
High percentage of Neanderthals in Australians., Huh? sigh!! [Roll Eyes]

They are coming out the woodwork. [Eek!]

Quote:

The native Australian in my opinion is a admixture of African and Neanderthal . . . .


. . . .There was a DNA test done on Australian natives not to long ago and it showed they had a high percentage of Neanderthal

*chuckle*
Posts: 1280 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
typeZeiss
Member
Member # 18859

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for typeZeiss   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:
Originally posted by typeZeiss:
quote:
Originally posted by xyyman:
Keep in in the back of your mind because some people look the same or similar doesn't mean they ARE the same.

Andaman Islanders are NOT closely related to West Africans, etc. . .

That is the same type of "science" C-Ass uses. Thread carefully..


Leave the "eye-ball" science to C-ass and Co. also Lioness. . .although he/she/they is getting better.

1. Whatbox tried to make a distinction between African Looking people and Australoid people which I would assume he would liken to the native in Australia for example. He seemed to be stating that the people of Elam and other areas were these Australoid type instead of the African type black. This is impossible because The native Australian in my opinion is a admixture of African and Neanderthal or whatever primitive thing Africans mixed with along their journey. There was a DNA test done on Australian natives not to long ago and it showed they had a high percentage of Neanderthal DNA which in my opinion explains their odd look. The same was said for the people of New Guinea.

2. Everyone came out of Africa, PERIOD. So the question is only of two types. Are they still the same stock as they were when they left i.e. did they mix a lot, did they mutate (as in the case of whites) or are they a mixture of either primitive and African i.e. very early admixture as in the case of the Australian "Black" or was it a mix between the black and the mutated group i.e. black and present day white as in the case of Arabs, some persians, some indians etc.

So to further what I am saying, I do not believe the people of Elam were west african. They were of African decent, were they recent arrivals? I don't know. Did they come from the east of Africa? If Rawlinson is to be believed, then yes, they were.

Check this out link

So as I said earlier, to not be so quick to buy into this crap Euros try and sell us on our people, its foolishness. Just think about it.

I should also stress, I do not believe current day West Africans were in West Africa during the time of Elam or the time Africans made it to India for example. Present day west africans arrived in west africa not to long ago. I think some came out of the nile valley and others came out of the sahara. If you read any of Diops books he gives good information on this point. So does Muhammad Ghadallah (I think thats his name). I forget the name of Mr. Ghadallah's book though. There are also a few other books on the subject, but I forget their names. I think west africa was mostly pygmy until very recently.

You are correct. Europeans have attempted to divide Black people to keep us down.

They teach the lie there was only one out of Africa (OOA) event to make it appear that the founders of the historic river valley civilizations were not Africans, eventhough history makes it clear that the Indus Valley, Egypt, and Sumerian were all founded by Kushite people.

They also spread the lie there is only one type of negro, the 'true negro', rather than admitting that the so-called "fine" features associated with Europeans are really African features.

.

Dr. Winters, I agree and I believe this is something we as Africans/African Diaspora need to wake up and realize. Their lies are not done out of ignorance, it is done on purpose with a real intent. People need to stop worrying about the lies so much and ask themselves WHY
Posts: 1280 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Clyde Winters
Member
Member # 10129

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Clyde Winters   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
First of all the original migrants out of Africa had different features than the contemporary Africans.

Here is an Australian

 -


Here is a contemporary Africans

 -

You can clearly see differences between the Australian and African type; while both individuals are described as Negroes you will note that the forehead of the Australian matches in many ways the cranium of earlier hominid forms dating back to the rise of homo sapiens sapiens in Africa.

Any physical anthropologists would note these changes. The coastal Melanesians usually show mixed Australian-African features or features commonly found among Africans--not Australians.\


Fijians

 -


Australians


 -

A simple observation of Melanesians and Aborigines make it clear that they resemble Africans moreso than Aborigines--the original settlers of Asia.


The ancestors of the Melanesians and Polynesians probably lived in East Asia. The late appearance of Melanoid people from East Asia on the shore areas of Oceania would explain the differences between the genetic make up of Melanesians living in the highlands and Melanesians living along the shore [1-2].

The skeletal evidence from East Asia [3-7,12] suggests that the TMRCAs of the Polynesians and some of the coastal Melanesians may be mainland East Asia, not Taiwan. The ancestral population for the shoreline Melanesians was probably forced from East Asia by Proto-Polynesians as they were pushed into Southeast Asia by the Han or contemporary Chinese. This would explain the genetic diversity existing among shoreline Melanesians, in comparison to the genetic homogeneity among isolated inland Melanesian, like the Highland New Guineans.

There were two Shang Dynasties, one Melanoid (Qiang-Shang) and the other Proto-Polynesian (Yin-Shang). The first Shang Dynasty was founded by Proto-Melanesians or Melanoids belonging to the Yueh tribe called Qiang [7]. The Qiang lived in Qiangfeng, a country to the west of Yin-Shang, Shensi and Yunnan [7-11,13].

The archaeological evidence also indicates that the Polynesians probably originated in East Asia [4,6-7,12-13]. Consequently, the Polynesian migration probably began in East Asia, not Southeast Asia. Taiwan genetically probably belongs to the early Polynesians who settled Taiwan before they expanded into outer Oceania.

Given the archaeological record of intimate contact between Proto-Polynesians and Proto-Melanoids, neither a “slow boat” or “express train” explains the genetic relationship between the Melanesian and Polynesian populations. This record makes it clear that these populations lived in intimate contact for thousands of years and during this extended period of interactions both groups probably exchanged genes.


References
1. Manfred Kayser, Oscar Lao, Kathrin Saar, Silke Brauer, Xingyu Wang, Peter Nürnberg, Ronald J. Trent, Mark Stoneking Genome-wide Analysis Indicates More Asian than Melanesian Ancestry of Polynesians. The American Journal of Human Genetics - 10 January 2008, 82 (1); pp. 194-198.

2. J. S. Fredlaender, F.R. Friedlaender, J.A. Hodgson, M. Stoltz, G. Koki, G. Horvat,S. Zhadanov, T. G. Schurr and D.A. Merriwether, Melanesian mtDNA complexity, PLoS ONE, 2(2) 2007: e248.

3 F. Weidenreich F., Bull. Nat. Hist. Soc. Peiping 13, (1938-40): p. 163.

4. Kwang-chih Chang, Archaeology of ancient China (Yale University Press, 1986) p. 64.

5. G. H. R. von Koenigswald, A giant fossil hominoid from the pleistocene of Southern China, Anthropology Pap. Am Museum of Natural History, no.43, 1952, pp. 301-309).

6. K. C. Chang, The archaeology of ancient China, (Yale University Press: New Haven, 1977): p. 76

7. Winters, Clyde Ahmad, “The Far Eastern Origin of the Tamils”, Journal of Tamil Studies, no27 (June 1985), pp. 65-92.

8. K. C. Chang, Shang Civilization, (Yale University Press: New Haven, 1980) pp. 227-230.

9. C. A. Winters, The Dravido-Harappa Colonization of Central Asia, Central Asiatic Journal, (1990) 34 (1-2), pp. 120-144.

10. Y. Kan, The Bronze culture of western Yunnan, Bull. Of the Ancient Orient Museum (Tokyo), 7 (1985), pp. 47-91.

11. S. S. Ling, A study of the Raft, Outrigger, Double, and Deck canoes of ancient China, the Pacific, and the Indian Ocean. The Institute of Ethnology Academic Sinica. Nankang, Taipei Taiwan, 1970.

12. Kwang-chih Chang, “Prehistoric and early historic culture horizons and traditions in South China”, Current Anthropology, 5 (1964): pp. 359-375: 375).

13. Winters,Clyde Ahmad, “Dravidian Settlements in ancient Polynesia”, India Past and Present 3, no2 (1986): pp. 225-241.


.

--------------------
C. A. Winters

Posts: 12261 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
-Just Call Me Jari-
Member
Member # 14451

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for -Just Call Me Jari-     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
[QB]

They teach the lie there was only one out of Africa (OOA) event to make it appear that the founders of the historic river valley civilizations were not Africans, eventhough history makes it clear that the Indus Valley, Egypt, and Sumerian were all founded by Kushite people.

Are you kidding me. No serious Anthropologist/biologist white or otherwise claims there was Only One OOA movement?? What the hell are you talking about, I just took a class with a white Anthropologist and we went over aleast 5 OOA movements, and this was just the most defining Events such as those associated with Homoerectus, AMH, etc.

quote:
They also spread the lie there is only one type of negro, the 'true negro', rather than admitting that the so-called "fine" features associated with Europeans are really African features.
/QB]

LMAO, this coming from the guy who upholds race. First off the very same Antropologist I took a class with, a white man and sort of Eurocentric at that, told me point blank modern Europeans are Africans adapted to the cold when I asked him about their so called "Fine Features" compared to Neadertal. again this is a man who upholds that Neadertal and AMH interbred and left some Neadertal traits.

So what are you talking about, the only "whites" who uphold the true Negro are racialists like you. Except you want to have your cake and cookies too.

pathetic.

Posts: 7970 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Clyde Winters
Member
Member # 10129

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Clyde Winters   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I accept the fact there were ancient Blacks in Asia. These Blacks were the Australian type people who mainly live in Australia and the Hill regions of Oceania.

The coastal Melanesians on the otherhand, are descendants of recent Africans who settled the area after being forced from Asia. The Polynesians/Filipinos and etc., who are known as the original Mongoloid people and called Classical Mongoloid in the literature probably originated in Anatolia or Mesopotamia.

The Australians are the original settlers of Asia (around 60kybp), and may represent members of the first out of Africa migrants. I never refer to these people as Africans, although I do recognize them as Blacks.

Buhshmen or Khoisan probably represent the second African migration of homo sapien sapiens out of Africa. I would class these people with the CroMagnon/Grimaldi group who entered Iberia after 34kybp. They also made their way to South America.

The Anu or Black pygmies ( and Proto- Bantu) type may represent the Natufians who began to migrate out of Africa after 20kya and settled in the Levant which was first settled by Cro Magnon people who early replaced the Neanderthal folk. The Natufians would represent the third African migration into Eurasia . Remnants of this great people were found on every continent when Europeans first explored the world.

By the time the Bushmen entered Eurasia the Classical mongoloid people who are the ancestors of the Indonesians/Vietnamese/Filipinos and etc. were probably already settled in Anatolia. The classical mongoloids probably constructed Catal Huyuk. The close relationship between Sumerian and the AustroAsiatic languages suggest that the classical Mongoloid people may have also inhabited Mesopotamia by the time the Sumerians entered the area.

After 6kya the Kushites migrated out the Saharan highlands on to the plains. As the Sahara began to dry up the Kushites began to settle Eurasia. Due to the Great Flood around 4000BC, the Anu abandoned many of their settlements in Mesopotamia. The Sumerians left Africa and founded the Sumerian civilization.

Mande and Dravidian speaking Kushites settled Iran. From here they expanded into the Indus Valley and East Asia.


The Sumerians, Elamites, Xia (of China), Harappans of the Indus Valley and coastal Melanoids are the Proto-Saharan people known in History as the Kushites.These people originated in the Highland regions of Middle Africa, and began to occupy the former trade centers of the Anu in Eurasia and the Americas. It is for this reason that we find West African placenames in the Pacific and India.


It appears to have been a natural catastrophe which caused the classical mongoloids to migrate eastward. We know this because many of the former sites of the Classical mongoloids in Anatolia were occupied by the Kushites (Kaska) people after 2500 BC.

By 1200 BC the clasical mongoloids had become well established in India. Around this time they conquered the Dravidian people who founded the first Shang empire, and set up a new Shang Empire at Anyang.

By 1000 BC the Hau/Han tribes came down from the mountains and pushed the classical mongoloids southward into Yunnan and eventually Southeast Asia. The Han began to make the Yueh and li min people their slaves. The Han often used the Qiang (another Black tribe) as sacrifice victims.
The Han killed off as many Black tribes as they could. The only thing that saved the pygmies in East Asia, was the fact that they moved into the mountains in areas they could easily defend from Han attacks.

This movement of Han and classical mongoloid people southward forced the Kushite/African (Qiang, li min and other African) tribes onto the Pacific Islands. It is these Africans who represent the coastal Melanesians.

Given the origin of the classical mongoloids in Anatolia, and the Han Chinese somewhere in North China or Central Asia,the Southeast Asians are not descendants of the first African migration to Eurasia. This is why the Chinese and Classical mongoloid people share few if any genes with the Australians. The Classical mongoloids share genes mainly with the coastal Melanesians who are of African origin, but few genes with the Chinese of East Asia.

.

--------------------
C. A. Winters

Posts: 12261 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Clyde Winters
Member
Member # 10129

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Clyde Winters   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
[QB]

They teach the lie there was only one out of Africa (OOA) event to make it appear that the founders of the historic river valley civilizations were not Africans, eventhough history makes it clear that the Indus Valley, Egypt, and Sumerian were all founded by Kushite people.

Are you kidding me. No serious Anthropologist/biologist white or otherwise claims there was Only One OOA movement?? What the hell are you talking about, I just took a class with a white Anthropologist and we went over aleast 5 OOA movements, and this was just the most defining Events such as those associated with Homoerectus, AMH, etc.

quote:
They also spread the lie there is only one type of negro, the 'true negro', rather than admitting that the so-called "fine" features associated with Europeans are really African features.
/QB]

LMAO, this coming from the guy who upholds race. First off the very same Antropologist I took a class with, a white man and sort of Eurocentric at that, told me point blank modern Europeans are Africans adapted to the cold when I asked him about their so called "Fine Features" compared to Neadertal. again this is a man who upholds that Neadertal and AMH interbred and left some Neadertal traits.

So what are you talking about, the only "whites" who uphold the true Negro are racialists like you. Except you want to have your cake and cookies too.

pathetic.

Pathetic is right--that defines people like you. You're stupid and can't think for yourself. You admit that your professor accepts several migrations out of Africa. But he mentions to you about the spread of Homo Habilis, Homo Erectus and etc (all pre-homo sapien sapiens).

Stupid, they taught your foolish ass that there was only 1 OOA event for anatomically modern humans 60kya. This ignores the spread of the Khoisan/Grimaldi, and presence of pygmy groups occupying every continent until they were exterminated by Asian and European people.

You are an ignorant moron. Until you study the literature of researchers like DuBois and J.A. Rogers you can only transmit to others the lies taught you by Europeans.

 -


I pity coconuts like you.

.

Posts: 12261 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
-Just Call Me Jari-
Member
Member # 14451

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for -Just Call Me Jari-     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Why are you Spamming this thread?? We already have a thread on Asia's native blacks..

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=000142

Now back on topic to blacks in the Holy Land..

I believe that the Jews were a multi-ethnic nation..I also believe Jesus was black. The Ethiopians have close ties to Jesus, they claim that Mary and Jesus visitied Ethiopia and the Ark was brought by the Jews. These Myths are vital to Ethiopian history and identity..

 -

 -

 -

[/img]http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lwrh4cozXn1qgfbgio1_400.png[/img]

This art influenced the Mozarab art in Spain...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/02/B_Valladolid_93.jpg/462px-B_Valladolid_93.jpg

Posts: 7970 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
-Just Call Me Jari-
Member
Member # 14451

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for -Just Call Me Jari-     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Sorry but I was never taught only One OOA movement for AMH. The Only fool here is you making up lies so you can present yourself as some real historian defeating Eurocentric lies, when in reality you only spread them by trying to black wash them.

The fact is most White Anthropologists and Biologists who don't uphold race know and accept the fact that Modern Europeans are Africans adapted to the cold. The only ones who deny this are the racialists Europeans whom you agree with, so what gives Clyde..LOL.

You can tell by your ad. hom induced rant and picture spam that you were busted.

And really you just ruined Type's thread with your over sized image, you really have no respect. I called you out on this before, posting oversized Images and spamming.

no respect.

as I said before pathetic.

quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:


Stupid, they taught your foolish ass that there was only 1 OOA event for anatomically modern humans 60kya.
.


Posts: 7970 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Clyde Winters
Member
Member # 10129

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Clyde Winters   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
Sorry but I was never taught only One OOA movement for AMH. The Only fool here is you making up lies so you can present yourself as some real historian defeating Eurocentric lies, when in reality you only spread them by trying to black wash them.

The fact is most White Anthropologists and Biologists who don't uphold race know and accept the fact that Modern Europeans are Africans adapted to the cold. The only ones who deny this are the racialists Europeans whom you agree with, so what gives Clyde..LOL.

You can tell by your ad. hom induced rant and picture spam that you were busted.

And really you just ruined Type's thread with your over sized image, you really have no respect. I called you out on this before, posting oversized Images and spamming.

no respect.

as I said before pathetic.

quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:


Stupid, they taught your foolish ass that there was only 1 OOA event for anatomically modern humans 60kya.
.


Coconuts can never teach true history.

 -

Just call me Jari your white heart can only lead you into delusion and self-hate while you parrot what ever the European teaches you. The problem is not what you look like outside, its your 'white mind' that ruins you and creates your inferiority complex.

.

Posts: 12261 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
-Just Call Me Jari-
Member
Member # 14451

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for -Just Call Me Jari-     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
^^^^
Notice he contributes nothing on the topic at hand. The funniest part is how he is bitching about the "True Negro" when he will turn around and use the True Negro image to claim the Olmecs were Mande people.

LMFAO..

You are pathetic Clyde, like a child.

Posts: 7970 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
KING
Member
Member # 9422

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for KING     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Guys no need for the mudslinging.

Clyde and Jari you guys Contribute too much to these forums to fight over foolishness.

As for Jews. They became an nation in Egypt. So it should not surprise people that there is links to Blacks in Ancient Israel/Palestine.

Also we have the Bible that states without an doubt that Jesus had Copper skin. So Again more truth to understand these things.

Keep up the good work guys and stop the senseless bickering. It just tears down an informative thread.

Peace

Posts: 9190 | From: Peace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
typeZeiss
Member
Member # 18859

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for typeZeiss   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by KING:
Guys no need for the mudslinging.

Clyde and Jari you guys Contribute too much to these forums to fight over foolishness.

As for Jews. They became an nation in Egypt. So it should not surprise people that there is links to Blacks in Ancient Israel/Palestine.

Also we have the Bible that states without an doubt that Jesus had Copper skin. So Again more truth to understand these things.

Keep up the good work guys and stop the senseless bickering. It just tears down an informative thread.

Peace

They were never a nation, thats a myth. If you can, get a book titled "The Thirteenth Tribe" and also check out this video of Dr. Shlomo Sand link

Next get ALL the books by Ahmed Osman.

Posts: 1280 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
typeZeiss
Member
Member # 18859

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for typeZeiss   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
[QB]

They teach the lie there was only one out of Africa (OOA) event to make it appear that the founders of the historic river valley civilizations were not Africans, eventhough history makes it clear that the Indus Valley, Egypt, and Sumerian were all founded by Kushite people.

Are you kidding me. No serious Anthropologist/biologist white or otherwise claims there was Only One OOA movement?? What the hell are you talking about, I just took a class with a white Anthropologist and we went over aleast 5 OOA movements, and this was just the most defining Events such as those associated with Homoerectus, AMH, etc.

quote:
They also spread the lie there is only one type of negro, the 'true negro', rather than admitting that the so-called "fine" features associated with Europeans are really African features.
/QB]

LMAO, this coming from the guy who upholds race. First off the very same Antropologist I took a class with, a white man and sort of Eurocentric at that, told me point blank modern Europeans are Africans adapted to the cold when I asked him about their so called "Fine Features" compared to Neadertal. again this is a man who upholds that Neadertal and AMH interbred and left some Neadertal traits.

So what are you talking about, the only "whites" who uphold the true Negro are racialists like you. Except you want to have your cake and cookies too.

pathetic.

You should read Dr. Diop's book "Civilization or Barbarism an Authentic Anthropology". I think you will find his assertions on race very interesting to say the least.
Posts: 1280 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.

Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | EgyptSearch!

(c) 2015 EgyptSearch.com

Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3