posted
IMO,its time to move beyond Kemet/Kush/Nubia/Meroe/Ancient Egypt. Everything has already been said about their initiators in all ways ,osteologically,craniofacially to tissue samples proving their origin. Frankly any more time spent on the issue is wasted. Look at page 1 as of Feb 18th 1150 SEAT. Out of 50 threads at least 12 refer in some way to this same topic-even worse in the standard way. People disconfirm,others jump in with the usual evidence and the losers take refuge in emotional irrelevancies. How long will we repeat the same things??? I'm not suggesting we abandon the yeoman efforts of Diop,Houston,Hansberry et al but rather a continuation of their own struggles into the wider history of blacks. For example, I find the evidence of European blacks fascinating-its totally new and ground breaking. That we existed as an aristocracy,a middle class and urban poor in appreciable numbers in recent Europe is truly exciting information for an amateur like me. Far be it for a dilettante to presume to real researchers but I think the time has come to look at the Americas,Asia and the Pacific. Also new approaches eg of linguistics, eg how the Qiang in China still use a Niger-Congo tonal system or the overwhelming evidence of African substratum in Japanese. Clyde, 5 years ago I saw your back and forth with Quetzalcoatl on linguistics-priceless! So,marc washington,mike111,ironlion and clyde,what say ye??
Posts: 433 | From: nairobi | Registered: Oct 2011
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posted
Racialist topics on ancient Egypt is going to continue to be a regular feature of this site; it is after all, a spin-off from the Egyptology section.
Topics that have nothing whatsoever do to with ancient Egypt, or the ancient Nile Valley for that matter, already take place here. It is one of the reasons this "Ancient Egypt" spin-off section was developed in the first place; to attract all sorts of non-Egyptology topics and nonsense, and help spare the original Egyptology section. It's a pity that the Egyptology section has nonetheless not been spared from non-Egyptology marketing spams and pointless race-baiting threads.
-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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For example, I find the evidence of European blacks fascinating-its totally new and ground breaking. That we existed as an aristocracy,a middle class and urban poor in appreciable numbers in recent Europe is truly exciting information for an amateur like me.
In the 16th century in the Iberian peninsula had about 150,000 dark skinned people with afros. In other parts of Europe the number was much smaller and had always been in historic times. By the 18th century the appreciable amount of people with dark skin and afros living in France were several thousand, a few thousand in the Netherlands, and several hundred scattered through Germany, Scandinavia, and Russia. Only until the 20th century did our numbers combine to reach the hundreds of thousands. The ancestors of light skinned people who lived in prehistoric Europe may have had darker skinned ancestors 6-12,000 years ago (or perhaps further back)
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: There are those who blindly follow the historical formula of white Americans that are designed to keep African Americans boxed in and away from a certain ancient civilization that white Americans covet.
Formula for Africa.
1. You do not show cities that are in Africa unless they are in South Africa, Egypt, Algeria, Libya, Tunisia. This is because in the European mind they can be attributed to people who are "supposedly" non-African.
2. You do not show Africans who do not fit a certain look.
3. You do not show Africans who dress in traditional African garments.
4. You do not show Africans who are not in poverty.
Has anybody heard the story of the Black african families who live around Ulcinj, they date back from Roman times, when they were brought over as slaves, they have stayed in that area ever since keeping themselves to themselves. I heard there are only 6 families left, but they all speak Serbo Croat.
A friend of My father Mr Cuddon, who was also my english teacher at school [an expert of Yugoslavia too], wrote a travellers guide to Yugoslavia and went in search of these people, he searched high and low, but could not find them, until one day he was in a remote part of Montenegro near Ulcinj standing under shelter because it was pouring with rain and a deep voice asked him what the time was in perfect Serbo-Croation, he turned around and to his amazement he saw a black man, who was one of these African Montenegrins, unfortunately the black man had no info on his ancestors and had a lack of education because of no schooling, so it was hard to get any info off him.
Does anybody know anymore info on these people?
-------------------- It was high time Posts: 314 | From: Home | Registered: Apr 2011
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posted
kikuyu22, There is a very interesting dynamic associated with expanding Black historical interest. On the one hand, the Albinos are terrified of it, they realize that it means the end of their fantasy world.
But on the other hand, the Negroes response is equally unwelcoming. The problem here is that the Negro doesn't like to have to figure anything out. The Negro is much happier being told what to believe.
So any enterprise requiring putting disparate pieces of information together and coming to a rational conclusion with them, is just as terrifying to the Negro, as the investigation is to the Albino.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: kikuyu22, There is a very interesting dynamic associated with expanding Black historical interest. On the one hand, the Albinos are terrified of it, they realize that it means the end of their fantasy world.
But on the other hand, the Negroes response is equally unwelcoming. The problem here is that the Negro doesn't like to have to figure anything out. The Negro is much happier being told what to believe.
So any enterprise requiring putting disparate pieces of information together and coming to a rational conclusion with them, is just as terrifying to the Negro, as the investigation is to the Albino.
YOU ARE ADRESSING DJEHUTE, OFF COURSE...
In Dutch we say: wiens brood men eet wiens taal men spreekt. A person speaks the language of the one who feeds him...
You can notice this with our own parcel of ES house negro's: it's all right in front of them, but it's the white man who puts food in their black bellies...not you or me...
Posts: 5454 | From: Holland | Registered: Aug 2008
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Omo Baba, you DO understand that somewhere there is a history of EVERY nation. Finding them is really not that difficult, with a computer and skillful browser search. I fail to understand how it is that people who claim an interest in this, find it so difficult to do even the most elementary investigation and reading.
Hungarian Kings
Stephen I The first kings of the kingdom were from the Árpád dynasty, and the first Christian King was Stephen I, who was crowned on 25 December 1000 (or 1 January 1001) with the crown Pope Sylvester II had sent him with the consent of Otto III, Holy Roman Emperor. The Roman Catholic Church received powerful support from Stephen I, who with Christian Hungarians and German knights wanted a Christian kingdom established in Central Europe.
Charles I (1288 – ), the first King of Hungary and Croatia (1308–42) of the House of Anjou. He was also descended from the old Hungarian Árpád dynasty. His claim to the throne of Hungary was contested by several pretenders. Nevertheless, although he was only a child when his grandfather, King Charles II of Naples sent him to Hungary in 1300, Charles would strengthen his rule in the kingdom against his opponents and the powerful magnates following a long series of internal struggles. His most successful achievement was the mutual defense union with Poland and Bohemia against the Habsburgs (Holy Roman Empire). Charles was born in Naples, southern Italy, the only son of Charles Martel, Prince of Salerno and his wife Clementia, a daughter of King Rudolph I of Germany. His paternal grandmother, Mary, a daughter of King Stephen V of Hungary, declared her claim to Hungary following the death of her brother, King Ladislaus IV of Hungary.
The House of Anjou (Angevin Empire)
The term Angevin Empire is a modern term describing the collection of states once ruled by the Angevin Plantagenet dynasty. The Angevins, also known as the House of Anjou, were a noble family founded in the early years of the Carolingian Empire. They first emerged as part of the minor feudal nobility, in what would soon be known as the Kingdom of France during the 10th century. After Geoffrey III, Count of Anjou inherited Anjou from his mother in 1060, the family began to grow in prominence, soon acquiring Maine. After going on crusade and becoming close to the Knights Templar, the Kingdom of Jerusalem was received through marriage by Fulk of Jerusalem in 1131. The senior line of the family branched off to become the House of Plantagenet, assuming the nickname of Geoffrey V of Anjou, its founder, eventually going on to rule the Kingdom of England, Lordship of Ireland, Principality of Wales and various other holdings in the vast Angevin Empire in 1154.
The Carolingian Empire (800–888) is a historiographical term which has been used to refer to the realm of the Franks under the Carolingian dynasty in the Early Middle Ages. This dynasty is seen as the founders of France and Germany, and its beginning date is based on the crowning of Charlemagne, or Charles the Great, and ends with the death of Charles the Fat. Depending on one's perspective, this Empire can be seen as the later history of the Frankish Realm or the early history of France and of the Holy Roman Empire. The House of Plantagenet
A branch of the Angevins, was a royal house founded by Geoffrey V of Anjou, father of Henry II of England. Plantagenet kings first ruled the Kingdom of England in the 12th century. Their paternal ancestors originated in the French province of Gâtinais and gained the County of Anjou through marriage during the 11th century. The dynasty accumulated several other holdings, building the Angevin Empire that at its peak stretched from the Pyrenees to Ireland and the border with Scotland.
Edward II king of England - House of Plantagenet
Edward's downfall came when his wife Isabella of France and her baronial lover Roger Mortimer set out to depose the king with the help of Henry, Earl of Lancaster, brother of the executed Earl Thomas. In defeat Edward agreed to abdicate the throne in favour of his and Isabella's son, Edward III of England.
Edward III king of England (the Black Prince) - House of Plantagenet Edward III married Philippa of Hainaut, (1314 – 1369). Hainaut consisted of what is now the Belgian province of Hainaut and the southern part of the French département Nord. In Roman times, Hainaut was situated in the Roman provinces of Belgica and Germania Inferior and inhabited by Celtic tribes (Black people), until Germanic peoples (White people) replaced them and ended Roman Imperial rule.The eldest of her fourteen children was Edward, the Black Prince, who became a renowned military leader. Philppa died at the age of fifty-five from an illness closely related to dropsy. The Queen's College, Oxford was founded in her honour.
Louis I, the great of Hungary (Ludwik Wegierski) - son of Charles I Louis was the head of the senior branch of the Angevin dynasty. He was one of the most active and accomplished monarchs of the Late Middle Ages, extending territorial control to the Adriatic and securing Dalmatia, with part of Bosnia and Bulgaria, within the Holy Crown of Hungary. During his reign Hungary reached the peak of its political influence. He spent much of his reign in wars with the Republic of Venice. He was in competition for the throne of Naples, with huge military success and the latter with little lasting political results. Louis is the first European monarch who came into collision with the Ottoman Turks.
In 1342, Louis married his first wife, Margaret (1335 – 1349), underaged daughter of Charles IV, Holy Roman Emperor, who died while still a minor. He then married his second wife, Elisabeth, daughter of Stephen II of Bosnia, who became Louis's vassal, and Elisabeth of Kuyavia, in 1353. Louis had three known daughters, all born of his second wife: Catherine (1370 – 1378), Mary, his successor in Hungary, who married Sigismund, at that time Margrave of Brandenburg (1371 – 1395), who became King of Hungary (1387–1437) and Holy Roman Emperor (1433–1437). Hedwige his successor in Poland, who married Jogaila, then Grand Duke of Lithuania.
Later the King Matthias Corvinus was elected by the nobles of the Kingdom, being the first Hungarian monarch which descended from an aristocratic family, and not from a royal family that inherited the title by blood traces. The same happened decades later with the King John I of Hungary, who was elected in 1526 after the death of the King Louis II of Hungary in the battle of Mohács. After this, the House of Habsburg inherited the throne, and ruled Hungary from Austria for almost 500 years until 1918.
There is a very interesting dynamic associated with expanding Black historical interest. On the one hand, the Albinos are terrified of it, they realize that it means the end of their fantasy world.
But on the other hand, the Negroes response is equally unwelcoming. The problem here is that the Negro doesn't like to have to figure anything out. The Negro is much happier being told what to believe.
So any enterprise requiring putting disparate pieces of information together and coming to a rational conclusion with them, is just as terrifying to the Negro, as the investigation is to the Albino.
TruthAndRights - Thinking IS tough, but there really is no choice. Somehow I don't really expect White experts to support this type of research - can you guess why?
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by kikuyu22: IMO,its time to move beyond Kemet/Kush/Nubia/Meroe/Ancient Egypt. Everything has already been said about their initiators in all ways ,osteologically,craniofacially to tissue samples proving their origin. Frankly any more time spent on the issue is wasted. Look at page 1 as of Feb 18th 1150 SEAT. Out of 50 threads at least 12 refer in some way to this same topic-even worse in the standard way. People disconfirm,others jump in with the usual evidence and the losers take refuge in emotional irrelevancies. How long will we repeat the same things??? I'm not suggesting we abandon the yeoman efforts of Diop,Houston,Hansberry et al but rather a continuation of their own struggles into the wider history of blacks. For example, I find the evidence of European blacks fascinating-its totally new and ground breaking. That we existed as an aristocracy,a middle class and urban poor in appreciable numbers in recent Europe is truly exciting information for an amateur like me. Far be it for a dilettante to presume to real researchers but I think the time has come to look at the Americas,Asia and the Pacific. Also new approaches eg of linguistics, eg how the Qiang in China still use a Niger-Congo tonal system or the overwhelming evidence of African substratum in Japanese. Clyde, 5 years ago I saw your back and forth with Quetzalcoatl on linguistics-priceless! So,marc washington,mike111,ironlion and clyde,what say ye??
personally my interest is in Africa i really have no interest in europe or Asia or this rubbish about how black Americans are the original black Europeans
Posts: 1064 | Registered: Jan 2011
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quote:Originally posted by kikuyu22: IMO,its time to move beyond Kemet/Kush/Nubia/Meroe/Ancient Egypt. Everything has already been said about their initiators in all ways ,osteologically,craniofacially to tissue samples proving their origin. Frankly any more time spent on the issue is wasted. Look at page 1 as of Feb 18th 1150 SEAT. Out of 50 threads at least 12 refer in some way to this same topic-even worse in the standard way. People disconfirm,others jump in with the usual evidence and the losers take refuge in emotional irrelevancies. How long will we repeat the same things??? I'm not suggesting we abandon the yeoman efforts of Diop,Houston,Hansberry et al but rather a continuation of their own struggles into the wider history of blacks. For example, I find the evidence of European blacks fascinating-its totally new and ground breaking. That we existed as an aristocracy,a middle class and urban poor in appreciable numbers in recent Europe is truly exciting information for an amateur like me. Far be it for a dilettante to presume to real researchers but I think the time has come to look at the Americas,Asia and the Pacific. Also new approaches eg of linguistics, eg how the Qiang in China still use a Niger-Congo tonal system or the overwhelming evidence of African substratum in Japanese. Clyde, 5 years ago I saw your back and forth with Quetzalcoatl on linguistics-priceless! So,marc washington,mike111,ironlion and clyde,what say ye??
personally my interest is in Africa i really have no interest in europe or Asia or this rubbish about how black Americans are the original black Europeans
Posts: 3446 | From: U.S. by way of JA by way of Africa | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by asante-Korton: personally my interest is in Africa i really have no interest in europe or Asia or this rubbish about how black Americans are the original black Europeans
He,he,he, I knew that sooner or later someone would let the Cat out of the bag.
What has never been investigated is the relationship between African Blacks and European Blacks during the American Slavery period.
Obviously asante-Korton feels that he (Africans) will be marginalized by the existence of European Blacks in colonial America.
He may even suspect that all of those Black Slave owners, were European Blacks owning African slaves.
This story is only beginning. Enough of the White mans lies and fantasy history. We got to get everything out in the open.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by asante-Korton: personally my interest is in Africa i really have no interest in europe or Asia or this rubbish about how black Americans are the original black Europeans
He,he,he, I knew that sooner or later someone would let the Cat out of the bag.
What has never been investigated is the relationship between African Blacks and European Blacks during the American Slavery period.
Obviously asante-Korton feels that he (Africans) will be marginalized by the existence of European Blacks in colonial America.
He may even suspect that all of those Black Slave owners, were European Blacks owning African slaves.
This story is only beginning. Enough of the White mans lies and fantasy history. We got to get everything out in the open.
wow you have out smarted me damn you Europeans are just too smart for me
Posts: 1064 | Registered: Jan 2011
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quote:Originally posted by asante-Korton: personally my interest is in Africa i really have no interest in europe or Asia or this rubbish about how black Americans are the original black Europeans
He,he,he, I knew that sooner or later someone would let the Cat out of the bag.
What has never been investigated is the relationship between African Blacks and European Blacks during the American Slavery period.
Obviously asante-Korton feels that he (Africans) will be marginalized by the existence of European Blacks in colonial America.
He may even suspect that all of those Black Slave owners, were European Blacks owning African slaves.
This story is only beginning. Enough of the White mans lies and fantasy history. We got to get everything out in the open.
Sorry Mikey boy history stealing white people hating black racist black supremacist, you can't get anything out in the open by stealing other races' history & lying calling it your own. Again stop trying to belittle, demean & dehumanize whites by stealing our history, our heritage, our identities, our homeland. We are NOT frickin Asians NOR are we Albinos you stupid white people hating black racist black supremacist. Again PUT UP OR SHUT UP, PRODUCE THE NON-BIASED PROOF I REQUESTED OR ADMIT YOU LIED Racist boy.
Posts: 3257 | From: Madisonville, KY USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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quote:Originally posted by asante-Korton: wow you have out smarted me damn you Europeans are just too smart for me
Your mindset was obvious. BTW - I don't recall claiming to be European, could you refresh my mind please.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by kikuyu22: IMO,its time to move beyond Kemet/Kush/Nubia/Meroe/Ancient Egypt. Everything has already been said about their initiators in all ways ,osteologically,craniofacially to tissue samples proving their origin. Frankly any more time spent on the issue is wasted. Look at page 1 as of Feb 18th 1150 SEAT. Out of 50 threads at least 12 refer in some way to this same topic-even worse in the standard way. People disconfirm,others jump in with the usual evidence and the losers take refuge in emotional irrelevancies. How long will we repeat the same things??? I'm not suggesting we abandon the yeoman efforts of Diop,Houston,Hansberry et al but rather a continuation of their own struggles into the wider history of blacks. For example, I find the evidence of European blacks fascinating-its totally new and ground breaking. That we existed as an aristocracy,a middle class and urban poor in appreciable numbers in recent Europe is truly exciting information for an amateur like me. Far be it for a dilettante to presume to real researchers but I think the time has come to look at the Americas,Asia and the Pacific. Also new approaches eg of linguistics, eg how the Qiang in China still use a Niger-Congo tonal system or the overwhelming evidence of African substratum in Japanese. Clyde, 5 years ago I saw your back and forth with Quetzalcoatl on linguistics-priceless! So,marc washington,mike111,ironlion and clyde,what say ye??
personally my interest is in Africa i really have no interest in europe or Asia or this rubbish about how black Americans are the original black Europeans
Why would you find it rubbish? I'm truly interested in your reasoning. Omo baba has just revealed the long established presence of blacks in a European place the MSM have misled us to believe was always lily white. We know Africa was ours BUT SO WAS MUCH MUCH MORE. Should we ignore this info? Why? Whose interests do we serve in doing so? A true researcher is driven TO INVESTIGATE EVERYTHING!
Posts: 433 | From: nairobi | Registered: Oct 2011
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quote:Originally posted by kikuyu22: IMO,its time to move beyond Kemet/Kush/Nubia/Meroe/Ancient Egypt. Everything has already been said about their initiators in all ways ,osteologically,craniofacially to tissue samples proving their origin. Frankly any more time spent on the issue is wasted. Look at page 1 as of Feb 18th 1150 SEAT. Out of 50 threads at least 12 refer in some way to this same topic-even worse in the standard way. People disconfirm,others jump in with the usual evidence and the losers take refuge in emotional irrelevancies. How long will we repeat the same things??? I'm not suggesting we abandon the yeoman efforts of Diop,Houston,Hansberry et al but rather a continuation of their own struggles into the wider history of blacks. For example, I find the evidence of European blacks fascinating-its totally new and ground breaking. That we existed as an aristocracy,a middle class and urban poor in appreciable numbers in recent Europe is truly exciting information for an amateur like me. Far be it for a dilettante to presume to real researchers but I think the time has come to look at the Americas,Asia and the Pacific. Also new approaches eg of linguistics, eg how the Qiang in China still use a Niger-Congo tonal system or the overwhelming evidence of African substratum in Japanese. Clyde, 5 years ago I saw your back and forth with Quetzalcoatl on linguistics-priceless! So,marc washington,mike111,ironlion and clyde,what say ye??
personally my interest is in Africa i really have no interest in europe or Asia or this rubbish about how black Americans are the original black Europeans
Why would you find it rubbish? I'm truly interested in your reasoning. Omo baba has just revealed the long established presence of blacks in a European place the MSM have misled us to believe was always lily white. We know Africa was ours BUT SO WAS MUCH MUCH MORE. Should we ignore this info? Why? Whose interests do we serve in doing so? A true researcher is driven TO INVESTIGATE EVERYTHING!
I already know that there was an African presence in europe but some people on here believe that they were black indigenous Europeans and not Africans, Now i do believe that there were black indigenous Europeans but im pretty sure they would have disappeared or were extinct 1000's of years before many of these European civilization were founded
Posts: 1064 | Registered: Jan 2011
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quote:Originally posted by asante-Korton: I already know that there was an African presence in europe but some people on here believe that they were black indigenous Europeans and not Africans, Now i do believe that there were black indigenous Europeans but im pretty sure they would have disappeared or were extinct 1000's of years before many of these European civilization were founded
asante-Korton, give it up, you are merely digging a deeper hole for yourself.
What you suggest is completely illogical and bears no resemblance to known human history elsewhere.
Not to mention that it flies in the face of EVIDENCE and established artifactual fact.
No my friend, you don't BELIEVE that, you are HOPING that. As I said, you fear the marginalization of the continental African contribution.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Omo baba may find this to be rubbish because he is waiting for Europeans to tell him what is or is not history. Afro-Americans on the otherhand has seen Black/Negro people as One. As a result they have been interested in the history of Black people wherever they lived because African slaves--our ancestors--did not come from one African nation or one part of Africa. This has made us a pan-Negro/Black people.
This is why J.A. Rogers,and other AA researchers never confined themselves solely to studying slavery. We have always written about Blacks in the Americas and Eurasia.
Omo baba is pathetic. He is pathetic because , except for Holl, name another African archaeologist researching African history and who is writing African history. There is none, as a result until a European does the original rsearch--there is no history for anyone to write.
Like most of the negroes who write about ancient Egypt, Omo is waiting to accept African history themes certified by Europeans. This is why most researchers here from the Egyptology Forum support Keita, and crticize Diop. They support Keita only because he is supported by the Eurocentric establishment.
Your call to research none Egyptological themes is a necessary theme for AA researchers. The good thing about your call is that there is established science behind this field of Afrocentricism. Below is the science behind the study of Blacks in the Americas and Eurasia:
posted
^I always wondered why African sources were silent about the goings-on in Europe, especially during the 17th century. I wondered if it was because they were so isolated that they did not know. Or if they were silent because they were happy for the outcome.
As we are now finding out, those European escapades in Africa and the middle east weren't by the Albinos - that's their "Fantasy" history - they were by European Blacks. Was there "love lost" between Black Europeans and Africans?
In 1510, a band of Turkish pirates, lead by Khair ad Din, known to the Europeans as Barbarossa (Redbeard), made Tunis their base, with the permission if Bey Mulay Muhammad. The pirates also gained control over other cities on the North African coast, amongst them Algiers. From there they undertook raids against christian ships and coastal settlements; abducted christians were sold as slaves on the markets of North Africa, or held for ransom. In 1516 Aruj moved his base of operations to Algiers, but was killed in 1518 during his invasion of Tlemcen. Khair ad Din succeeded him as military commander of Algiers. The Ottoman sultan gave him the title of beylerbey (provincial governor) and a contingent of some 2,000 janissaries, well-armed Ottoman soldiers. With the aid of this force, Khair ad Din subdued the coastal region between Constantine and Oran (although the city of Oran remained in Spanish hands until 1791).
Under Khair ad Din's regency, Algiers became the center of Ottoman authority in the Maghrib, from which Tunis, Tripoli, and Tlemcen would be overcome, and Morocco's independence would be threatened. So successful was Khair ad Din at Algiers that he was recalled to Constantinople in 1533 by the sultan, Süleyman I (r. 1520-66), known in Europe as Süleyman the Magnificent, and appointed admiral of the Ottoman fleet. The next year he mounted a successful seaborne assault on Tunis. Barbarossa ousted Mulay Muhammad's successor, Mulay Hassan, and assumed the title of Bey of Tunis for himself (1534).
The ousted Bey of Tunis, Mulay Hassan, plead to Holy Roman Emperor Charles V. who agreed to equip an expedition against Tunis, not only to restore Mulay Hassan to the throne, but also to curb the piracy undertaken from there. A fleet consistying of 62 galleys and 150 other vessels left Barcelona March 29th. The Imperial & Spanish troops, commanded by Genoese Andrea Doria, supported by the Maltese Knights, landed near Carthago, took Tunis and Goletta. Tunis was taken July 21st 1535. Mulay Hassan was restored, and 20,000 christian slaves liberated. The Spanish garrisoned Tunis and Goletta. Mulay Hassan ruled Tunis as a Spanish vassal, and had to agree to end christian slavery and to introduce religious toleration. The expedition also took Bone and Biserta, both of which were garrisoned by the Spanish. The Portuguese navy participated in the expedition.
The policy he was forced to implement resulted in Mulay Hassan's unpopularity. In 1543 he was overthrown by his son, Mulay Ahmad. In 1570 Tunis was conquered by the Ottoman Empire. In 1573 Don Juan d'Austria reconquered it, but he was recalled by his half-brother, Philip II King of Spain, and in 1574 the Ottoman troops, when taking Tunis, encountered no resistance. Except for Ceuta, Melilla, and Oran, the Spanish hold over ports in North Africa was temporary. Piracy from the "Barbary Coast" was not effectively brought under control until into the 19th century.
quote:Originally posted by asante-Korton: I already know that there was an African presence in europe but some people on here believe that they were black indigenous Europeans and not Africans, Now i do believe that there were black indigenous Europeans but im pretty sure they would have disappeared or were extinct 1000's of years before many of these European civilization were founded
This is due to your ignorance and disrepect of Black researchers. If you had bothered to read J.A. Rogers and Parker you would have known you were wrong.
.
-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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Knowledge is cumulative. In other words we build new knowledge on the research of the giants in our field. From your lack of knowledge about DuBois' it is clear you have no recognition of the fact that what you guys are writing about has already been discussed formerly, and your job should be confirming or disconfirming what these giants wrote.
I teach educational philosophy on occasion. In this class I just don't talk about contemporary educators I also talk about the Greek philosophers.
Charlie I have posted the following previously. I hope you will read it this time and begin to recognize that what Mike, Marc and I write about is part of a 200 year tradition of Afro-American scholarship. Learn to respect your own scholars. Don't let white supremacy continue to blind you to the truths of history.
Afrocentrism, is a mature social science that was founded by Afro-Americans almost 200 years ago.
These men and women provided scholarship based on contemporary archaeological and historical research the African/Black origination of civilization throughout the world. These Afro-American scholars, mostly trained at Harvard University (one of the few Universities that admitted Blacks in the 19th Century) provide the scientific basis the global role played by African people in civilizing the world.
Afrocentrism and the africalogical study of ancient Black civilizations was began by Afro-Americans.
Edward Blyden
The foundation of any mature science is its articulation in an authoritive text (Kuhn, 1996, 136). The africalogical textbooks published by Hopkins (1905), Perry (1893) and Williams (1883) provided the vocabulary themes for further afrocentric social science research.
The pedagogy for ancient africalogical research was well established by the end of the 19th century by African American researchers well versed in the classical languages and knowledge of Greek and Latin. Cornish and Russwurm (1827) in the Freedom Journal, were the first African Americans to discuss and explain the "Ancient Model" of history.
These afrocentric social scientists used the classics to prove that the Blacks founded civilization in Egypt, Ethiopia, Babylon and Ninevah. Cornish and Russwurm (1827) made it clear that archaeological research supported the classical, or "Ancient Model" of history.
Edward Blyden (1869) also used classical sources to discuss the ancient history of African people. In his work he not only discussed the evidence for Blacks in West Asia and Egypt, he also discussed the role of Blacks in ancient America (Blyden, 1869, 78).
By 1883, africalogical researchers began to publish book on African American history. G.W. Williams (1883) wrote the first textbook on African American history. In the History of the Negro Race in America, Dr. Williams provided the schema for all future africalogical history text.
Dr. Williams (1883) confirmed the classical traditions for Blacks founding civilization in both Africa (Egypt, Ethiopia) and West Asia. In addition, to confirming the "Ancient Model" of history, Dr. Williams (1883) also mentioned the presence of Blacks in Indo-China and the Malay Peninsula. Dr. Williams was trained at Howard.
A decade later R.L. Perry (1893) also presented evidence to confirm the classical traditions of Blacks founding Egypt, Greece and the Mesopotamian civilization. He also provided empirical evidence for the role of Blacks in Phoenicia, thus increasing the scope of the ASAH paradigms.
Pauline E. Hopkins (1905) added further articulation of the ASAH paradigms of the application of these paradigms in understanding the role of Blacks in West Asia and Africa. Hopkins (1905) provided further confirmation of the role of Blacks in Southeast Asia, and expanded the scope of africalogical research to China (1905).
This review of the 19th century africalogical social scientific research indicate confirmation of the "Ancient Model" for the early history of Blacks. We also see a movement away from self-published africalogical research, and publication of research, and the publication of research articles on afrocentric themes, to the publication of textbooks.
It was in these books that the paradigms associated with the "Ancient Model" and ASAH were confirmed, and given reliability by empirical research. It was these texts which provided the pedagogic vehicles for the perpetuation of the africalogical normal social science.
The afrocentric textbooks of Hopkins (1905), Perry (1893) and Williams (1883) proved the reliability and validity of the ASAH paradigms. The discussion in these text of contemporary scientific research findings proving the existence of ancient civilizations in Egypt, Nubia-Sudan (Kush), Mesopotamia, Palestine and North Africa lent congruency to the classical literature which pointed to the existence of these civilizations and these African origins ( i.e., the children of Ham= Khem =Kush?).
The authors of the africalogical textbooks reported the latest archaeological and anthropological findings. The archaeological findings reported in these textbooks added precision to their analysis of the classical and Old Testament literature. This along with the discovery of artifacts on the ancient sites depicting Black\African people proved that the classical and Old Testament literature, as opposed to the "Aryan Model", objectively identified the Black\African role in ancient history. And finally, these textbooks confirmed that any examination of references in the classical literature to Blacks in Egypt, Kush, Mesopotamia and Greece\Crete exhibited constancy to the evidence recovered from archaeological excavations in the Middle East and the Aegean. They in turn disconfirmed the "Aryan Model", which proved to be a falsification of the authentic history of Blacks in early times.
The creation of africalogical textbooks provided us with a number of facts revealing the nature of the afrocentric ancient history paradigms. They include a discussion of:
1) the artifacts depicting Blacks found at ancient sites
recovered through archaeological excavation;
2) the confirmation of the validity of the classical and Old
Testament references to Blacks as founders of civilization in Africa and Asia;
3) the presence of isolated pockets of Blacks existing outside Africa; and
4) that the contemporary Arab people in modern Egypt are not the descendants of the ancient Egyptians.
The early africalogical textbooks also outlined the africalogical themes research should endeavor to study. A result, of the data collected by the africalogical ancient history research pioneers led to the development of three facts by the end of the 19th century, which needed to be solved by the afrocentric paradigms: (1) What is the exact relationship of ancient Egypt, to Blacks in other parts of Africa;
(2) How and when did Blacks settle America, Asia and Europe;
(3) What are the contributions of the Blacks to the rise, and cultural expression ancient Black\African civilizations;
(4) Did Africans settle parts of America in ancient times.
As you can see the structure of Afrocentrism were made long before Boas and the beginning of the 20th Century.In fact , I would not be surprised if Boas learned what he talked about from the early Afrocentric researchers discussed in this post.
As you can see Afro-Americans have be writing about the Global history of ancient Black civilizations for almost 200 years. It was Afro-Americans who first mentioned the African civilizations of West Africa and the Black roots of Egypt. These Afro-Americans made Africa a historical part of the world.
Afro-American scholars not only highlighted African history they also discussed the African/Black civilizations developed by African people outside Africa over a hundred years before Bernal and Boas.
Your history of what you call "negrocentric" or Black Studies is all wrong. It was DuBois who founded Black/Negro Studies, especially Afro-American studies given his work on the slave trade and sociological and historical studies of Afro-Americans. He mentions in the World and Africa about the Jews and other Europeans who were attempting to take over the field. Hansberry There is no one who can deny the fact that Leo Hansberry founded African studies in the U.S., not the Jews.Hansberry was a professor at Howard University.
Moreover, Bernal did not initiate any second wave of "negro/Blackcentric" study for ancient Egyptian civilization. Credit for this social science push is none other than Chiek Diop, who makes it clear that he was influenced by DuBois.
DuBois
These scholars recognized that the people of ancient Greece, Southeast Asia and Indo-China were African people. When giants in study of Afrocentrism discussed Blacks in Asia they were talking about people of African descent. So when you claim that these civilizations should be outside the study area of Afrocentric scholars you don't know what you're talking about.
These researchers used anthropological, archaeological historical and linguistic evidence to support their conclusions. It is only natural that these well founded hypotheses developed by these scholars can be supported by population genetics.
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Bernal, M. (1996, Spring). The Afrocentric interpretation of history: Bernal replies to Lefkowitz. Journal of Blacks in Higher Education, 86-95.
Bernal,M. (1987). Black Athena. New York: Free Association Press. Volume 1.
________. (1991). Black Athena. New York: Free Association Press. Volume 2.
Blyden, E.W. ( January, 1869). The Negro in ancient history.
Methodist Quarterly Review, 71-93.
Blyden, E.W. (1887). Christianity, Islam and the Negro Race. Edinburgh: Edinburgh University Press.
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Diop,C.A. (1974). The African Origin of Civilization. (ed. & Trans) by Mercer Cook, Westport:Lawrence Hill & Company.
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des Languaes Negro-Africaines. Dakar: IFAN ,Les Nouvelles
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___________.(1986). "Formation of the Berber Branch". In Libya
Antiqua. (ed.) by Unesco,(Paris: UNESCO) pp.69-73.
____________.(1987). Precolonial Black Africa. (trans. ) by
Harold Salemson, Westport: Lawrence Hill & Company.
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H.J. Salemson and Marjoliiw de Jager, Westport:Lawrence
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Douglas, F. (1966). The claims of the Negro ethnologically considered. In H. Brotz (Ed.), Negro social and political
thought (pp. 226-244). New York: Basic Books, Inc., Pub.
DuBois, W.E.B. (1924). The Gift of Black Folks. Boston.
DuBois, W.E.B. (1970). The Negro. New York: Oxford University
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DuBois, W.E.B. (1965). The world and Africa. New York :
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Ferris, W.H. (1913). The African abroad. 2 vols. New Haven,CT
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Garvey, M. (1966). Who and What is a Negro. In H. Brotz (Ed.), Negro social and political thought (pp. 560-562).New York: Basic Books, Inc. Publishers.
Graves, Robert. (1980). The Greek Myths. Middlesex:Peguin Books
Ltd. 2 volumes.
Hansberry, L.H. (1981). Africa and Africans: As seen by classical
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Hopkins, P.E. (1905). A Primer of Facts pertaining to the early greatness of the african race and the possibility of restoration by its descendants-with epilogue. Cambridge: P.E. Hopkins & Com.
Hume, D. (1875). Essays: Moral political and literary. T.H. Green
and T.H. Grose. 2 Vols. London.
Jackson, J. (1974). Introduction to African civilization.
Secaucus, N.J.: Citadel Press.
James, G.M. (1954). Stolen legacy. New York: Philosophical Library.
Kuhn, T.S. (1996). The structure of scientific revolution.
Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
Lacouperie, Terrien de. (1891). The black heads of Babylonia and ancient China, The Babylonian and Oriental Record, 5 (11), 233-246.
Lawrence, H.G. (1962). African explorers of the New World,
The Crisis, 321-332.
Merton, R.K. (1957). Social theory aand social structure.
Glencoe, Ill. : The Free Press.
Moitt,B. (1989). "Chiekh Anta Diop and the African Diaspora:
Historical Continuity and Socio-Cultural Symbolism".
Presence Africaine, no. 149-150:347-360.
Parker,G.W. (1917) . "The African Origin of Grecian Civilization
".Journal of Negro History, 2(3):334-344.
___________. (1981). The Children of the Sun. Baltimore,Md.:
Black Classic Press.
Perry, R.L. (1893). The Cushite. Brooklyn: The Literary Union.
Rawlinson, George. (1928).The History of Herodutus. New York
: Tudor.
Schomburg, A.A. (March, 1925).The Negro digs up his past.
Thompson, Jr. A.A. (1975). Pre-Columbian [African] presence
in the Western Hemisphere,Negro History Bulletin, 38 (7), 452-456.
Williams, G.W. (1869). History of the Negro Race in America. New York: G.P. Putnam.
Wimby, D. (1980). The Greco-Roman Tradition concerning Ethiopia and Egypt, black books bulletin, 7(1), 14-19, 25.
Winters, C.A. (1977). The influence of the Mande scripts on ancient American writing systems", Bulletin l'de IFAN, T39, serie B, no. 2 (1977), pp.941-967.
Winters, C.A. (1979). Manding Scripts in the New World", Journal of African Civilizations, l(1), 80-97.
Winters,C.A. (December 1981/ January 1982). Mexico's Black Heritage. The Black Collegian, 76-84.
Winters, C.A. (1983a). "The Ancient Manding Script". In Blacks
in Science:Ancient and Modern. (ed.) by Ivan van Sertima, (New Brunswick: Transaction Books) pp.208-215.
__________. (1983b). "Les Fondateurs de la Grece venaient d'Afrique en passant par la Crete". Afrique Histoire (Dakar), no.8:13-18.
_________. (1983c) "Famous Black Greeks Important in the development of Greek Culture". Return to the Source,2(1):8.
________.(1983d). "Blacks in Ancient China, Part 1, The Founders
of Xia and Shang", Journal of Black Studies 1 (2), 8-13.
________. (1984a). "Blacks in Europe before the Europeans".
Return to the Source, 3(1):26-33.
Winters, C.A. (1984b). Blacks in Ancient America, Colorlines, 3(2), 27-28.
Winters, C.A. (1984c). Africans found first American Civilization , African Monitor, l , pp.16-18.
_________.(1985a). "The Indus Valley Writing and related
Scripts of the 3rd Millennium BC". India Past and
Present, 2(1):13-19.
__________. (1985b). "The Proto-Culture of the Dravidians,
Manding and Sumerians". Tamil Civilization,3(1):1-9.
__________. (1985c). "The Far Eastern Origin of the Tamils",
Journal of Tamil Studies , no.27, pp.65-92.
__________.(1986). The Migration Routes of the Proto-Mande.
The Mankind Quarterly,27 (1), 77-96.
_________.(1986b). Dravidian Settlements in Ancient Polynesia.
India Past and Present, 3 (2), 225-241.
__________. (1988). "Common African and Dravidian Place Name
Elements". South Asian Anthropologist, 9(1):33-36.
__________. (1989a). "Tamil, Sumerian, Manding and the Genetic
Model". International Journal of Dravidian Linguistics,18(1):98-127.
__________. (1989b). "Review of Dr. Asko Parpola's 'The Coming of the Aryans'",International Journal of Dravidian Linguistics, 18(2):98-127.
__________. (1990). "The Dravido-Harappan Colonization of Central Asia". Central Asiatic Journal, 34(1/2):120-144.
___________. (1991). "The Proto-Sahara". The Dravidian Encyclopaedia, (Trivandrum: International School of Dravidian Linguistics) pp.553-556. Volume l.
----------.(1994). Afrocentrism: A valid frame of reference, Journal of Black Studies, 25 (2), 170-190.
_________.(1994b). The Dravidian and African laguages, International Journal of Dravidian Linguistics, 23 (1), 34-52.
________.2007. Afrocentrism Myth or Science.www.lulu.com Here
Woodson, C.G. & Wesley, C.H. (1972). The Negro in Our History. Washington, D.C. Associated Publisher.
Get up off your knees and learn from the Afro-American scholars who began the study of Blacks in ancient history.
In conclusion, Afrocentrism is a mature social science. A social science firmly rooted in the scholarship of Afro-American researchers lasting almost 200 years. Researchers like Marc Washington, Mike and I are continuing a tradition of scholarship began 20 decades ago. All we are doing is confirming research by DuBois and others, that has not been disconfirmed over the past 200 years.
Aluta continua.....The struggle continues.....
-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
Here is a nice brain teaser for the Negroes.
The "Black" Arabs took the "Holy Lands" and Jerusalem circa 650 and made those lands Muslim.
Yet it wasn't until 450 years later in 1099, that European Catholics decided that they had to free the "Holy Lands".
Gee, I wonder what could have made them suddenly decide, after 450 years, that something needed to be done?
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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The crusades had nothing to do with religion, they were "Race" wars.
In 935 A.D. The Ikhshidid dynasty of Muhammad ibn Tughj, a Turk from Uzbekistan in Central Asia, took control of Egypt and the Holy Lands.
At the same time, Seljuq Turks were threatening the Black Byzantine Empire in Anatolia.
The crusade was launched on 27 November 1095 by Pope Urban II with the primary goal of responding to an appeal from Byzantine Emperor Alexios I Komnenos, who requested that western volunteers come to his aid and help to repel the invading Seljuq Turks from Anatolia. An additional goal soon became the principal objective—the Christian reconquest of the sacred city of Jerusalem and the Holy Land and the freeing of the Eastern Christians from Turk (White) Islamic rule.
posted
^A Turk from Uzbekistan named Muhammad ibn Tughj. Has any of you wondered why "Turks" have "Arab" names?
Because Turk life in the west began as Arab slaves, they respectfully took Arab names initially as a show of deference. But once they had over-thrown the Arabs, maintaining Arab names helped to legitimize their rule over Arab lands, but most importantly, their rule over Islam.
Thus Alp-Arslan (the father of Anatolian Turks) assumed the name of "Muhammad bin Da'ud Chaghri".
The Turks of Saudi Arabia will often take the name or nickname "Turki" in deference to their Turkish origins.
Prince Turki Al-Faisal of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.
The crusades had nothing to do with religion, they were "Race" wars.
In 935 A.D. The Ikhshidid dynasty of Muhammad ibn Tughj, a Turk from Uzbekistan in Central Asia, took control of Egypt and the Holy Lands.
At the same time, Seljuq Turks were threatening the Black Byzantine Empire in Anatolia.
The crusade was launched on 27 November 1095 by Pope Urban II with the primary goal of responding to an appeal from Byzantine Emperor Alexios I Komnenos, who requested that western volunteers come to his aid and help to repel the invading Seljuq Turks from Anatolia. An additional goal soon became the principal objective—the Christian reconquest of the sacred city of Jerusalem and the Holy Land and the freeing of the Eastern Christians from Turk (White) Islamic rule.
See everybody! This is the new knowledge that helps reasonably intelligent people see things clearer. It explains the dynamic behind all the wars and racial politics of the day that are still felt. Which is why I find it difficult to accept that for certain mysterious reasons we're advised to ignore such history. Asante-korton,would you instead have us confirming King Tut's origins again for the eleventeenth time,ululating with joy that a French scientist has validated our conclusions? Ohh wait! I know an avenue of valid investigation for black researchers,with your permission of course: What race were the first Yorubas/Zulus and Masaais? Like I said,and many agree,its time to move on. There's no need to limit our historical horizons. Personally,I'd like to see work on the: -Anu,the first pygmy people,who it seems were worldwide til the late Neolithic -More research on blacks in S.E Asia. Rashid's seminal book,blacks in Early Asia was published in the late 80s and is now dated -More light on blacks in the Americas and the Pacific -The pre Ancient Egypt culture of the Sahara -more evidence of black Europe I know you're all busy with your own schedules and private lives beyond your work. This is just a wish list;what I'd do with unlimited resources and time.
Posts: 433 | From: nairobi | Registered: Oct 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Omo baba may find this to be rubbish because he is waiting for Europeans to tell him what is or is not history. Afro-Americans on the otherhand has seen Black/Negro people as One. As a result they have been interested in the history of Black people wherever they lived because African slaves--our ancestors--did not come from one African nation or one part of Africa. This has made us a pan-Negro/Black people.
This is why J.A. Rogers,and other AA researchers never confined themselves solely to studying slavery. We have always written about Blacks in the Americas and Eurasia.
Omo baba is pathetic. He is pathetic because , except for Holl, name another African archaeologist researching African history and who is writing African history. There is none, as a result until a European does the original rsearch--there is no history for anyone to write.
Like most of the negroes who write about ancient Egypt, Omo is waiting to accept African history themes certified by Europeans. This is why most researchers here from the Egyptology Forum support Keita, and crticize Diop. They support Keita only because he is supported by the Eurocentric establishment.
Your call to research none Egyptological themes is a necessary theme for AA researchers. The good thing about your call is that there is established science behind this field of Afrocentricism. Below is the science behind the study of Blacks in the Americas and Eurasia:
posted
kikuyu22 - There really isn't much known in the west. The Chinese would be the principal sources for in-depth information, and so-far they are not talking.
The crusades had nothing to do with religion, they were "Race" wars.
In 935 A.D. The Ikhshidid dynasty of Muhammad ibn Tughj, a Turk from Uzbekistan in Central Asia, took control of Egypt and the Holy Lands.
At the same time, Seljuq Turks were threatening the Black Byzantine Empire in Anatolia.
The crusade was launched on 27 November 1095 by Pope Urban II with the primary goal of responding to an appeal from Byzantine Emperor Alexios I Komnenos, who requested that western volunteers come to his aid and help to repel the invading Seljuq Turks from Anatolia. An additional goal soon became the principal objective—the Christian reconquest of the sacred city of Jerusalem and the Holy Land and the freeing of the Eastern Christians from Turk (White) Islamic rule.
See everybody! This is the new knowledge that helps reasonably intelligent people see things clearer. It explains the dynamic behind all the wars and racial politics of the day that are still felt. Which is why I find it difficult to accept that for certain mysterious reasons we're advised to ignore such history. Asante-korton,would you instead have us confirming King Tut's origins again for the eleventeenth time,ululating with joy that a French scientist has validated our conclusions? Ohh wait! I know an avenue of valid investigation for black researchers,with your permission of course: What race were the first Yorubas/Zulus and Masaais? Like I said,and many agree,its time to move on. There's no need to limit our historical horizons. Personally,I'd like to see work on the: -Anu,the first pygmy people,who it seems were worldwide til the late Neolithic -More research on blacks in S.E Asia. Rashid's seminal book,blacks in Early Asia was published in the late 80s and is now dated -More light on blacks in the Americas and the Pacific -The pre Ancient Egypt culture of the Sahara -more evidence of black Europe I know you're all busy with your own schedules and private lives beyond your work. This is just a wish list;what I'd do with unlimited resources and time.
@ kikuyu22:
Greetings...have you visited Rashidi's website, The Global African Presence...
Posts: 3446 | From: U.S. by way of JA by way of Africa | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by kikuyu22: See everybody! This is the new knowledge that helps reasonably intelligent people see things clearer. It explains the dynamic behind all the wars and racial politics of the day that are still felt. Which is why I find it difficult to accept that for certain mysterious reasons we're advised to ignore such history. Asante-korton,would you instead have us confirming King Tut's origins again for the eleventeenth time,ululating with joy that a French scientist has validated our conclusions? Ohh wait! I know an avenue of valid investigation for black researchers,with your permission of course: What race were the first Yorubas/Zulus and Masaais? Like I said,and many agree,its time to move on. There's no need to limit our historical horizons. Personally,I'd like to see work on the: -Anu,the first pygmy people,who it seems were worldwide til the late Neolithic -More research on blacks in S.E Asia. Rashid's seminal book,blacks in Early Asia was published in the late 80s and is now dated -More light on blacks in the Americas and the Pacific -The pre Ancient Egypt culture of the Sahara -more evidence of black Europe I know you're all busy with your own schedules and private lives beyond your work. This is just a wish list;what I'd do with unlimited resources and time.
Here are some of my videos which may help you in your quest
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Omo baba may find this to be rubbish because he is waiting for Europeans to tell him what is or is not history. Afro-Americans on the otherhand has seen Black/Negro people as One. As a result they have been interested in the history of Black people wherever they lived because African slaves--our ancestors--did not come from one African nation or one part of Africa. This has made us a pan-Negro/Black people.
This is why J.A. Rogers,and other AA researchers never confined themselves solely to studying slavery. We have always written about Blacks in the Americas and Eurasia.
Omo baba is pathetic. He is pathetic because , except for Holl, name another African archaeologist researching African history and who is writing African history. There is none, as a result until a European does the original rsearch--there is no history for anyone to write.
Like most of the negroes who write about ancient Egypt, Omo is waiting to accept African history themes certified by Europeans. This is why most researchers here from the Egyptology Forum support Keita, and crticize Diop. They support Keita only because he is supported by the Eurocentric establishment.
Your call to research none Egyptological themes is a necessary theme for AA researchers. The good thing about your call is that there is established science behind this field of Afrocentricism. Below is the science behind the study of Blacks in the Americas and Eurasia:
quote:Originally posted by asante-Korton: I already know that there was an African presence in europe but some people on here believe that they were black indigenous Europeans and not Africans, Now i do believe that there were black indigenous Europeans but im pretty sure they would have disappeared or were extinct 1000's of years before many of these European civilization were founded
This is due to your ignorance and disrepect of Black researchers. If you had bothered to read J.A. Rogers and Parker you would have known you were wrong.
.
and were are these black Europeans? could you please show me a photo of them so i know what they look like
Posts: 1064 | Registered: Jan 2011
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The crusades had nothing to do with religion, they were "Race" wars.
In 935 A.D. The Ikhshidid dynasty of Muhammad ibn Tughj, a Turk from Uzbekistan in Central Asia, took control of Egypt and the Holy Lands.
At the same time, Seljuq Turks were threatening the Black Byzantine Empire in Anatolia.
The crusade was launched on 27 November 1095 by Pope Urban II with the primary goal of responding to an appeal from Byzantine Emperor Alexios I Komnenos, who requested that western volunteers come to his aid and help to repel the invading Seljuq Turks from Anatolia. An additional goal soon became the principal objective—the Christian reconquest of the sacred city of Jerusalem and the Holy Land and the freeing of the Eastern Christians from Turk (White) Islamic rule.
See everybody! This is the new knowledge that helps reasonably intelligent people see things clearer. It explains the dynamic behind all the wars and racial politics of the day that are still felt. Which is why I find it difficult to accept that for certain mysterious reasons we're advised to ignore such history. Asante-korton,would you instead have us confirming King Tut's origins again for the eleventeenth time,ululating with joy that a French scientist has validated our conclusions? Ohh wait! I know an avenue of valid investigation for black researchers,with your permission of course: What race were the first Yorubas/Zulus and Masaais? Like I said,and many agree,its time to move on. There's no need to limit our historical horizons. Personally,I'd like to see work on the: -Anu,the first pygmy people,who it seems were worldwide til the late Neolithic -More research on blacks in S.E Asia. Rashid's seminal book,blacks in Early Asia was published in the late 80s and is now dated -More light on blacks in the Americas and the Pacific -The pre Ancient Egypt culture of the Sahara -more evidence of black Europe I know you're all busy with your own schedules and private lives beyond your work. This is just a wish list;what I'd do with unlimited resources and time.
Asia and europe got there knowledge from africa, africa is were all civilization come from so why would i give a fcuk about ancient greece or something in asia when ancient nubia and egypt predates them all
Mike doesn't even believe that black Americans are African he thinks there black Europeans
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quote:Originally posted by asante-Korton: And were is your proof that they are black indigenous europeans?
asante-Korton - I will answer you question, but first: I have always wondered why Africa: the birthplace of modern man, the landmass with the longest continual habitation of humans, has never advanced to any great degree. It has always been that Africans achieved greatness AFTER they left Africa. (Egyptians and Nubians excepted).
Forgetting all the great Black civilizations all over the world for a moment: Even the Berbers, once they left Africa they did this:
But once back in Africa they did nothing comparable.
Which leads me to believe that there is something inherent in African tribalism and it's jealousies which acts to stifle advancement.
I have proven this in the behavior of the ignorant Negro. His mindset is obvious: since he is Black and ignorant, then how could anyone like him (Black) be smart? And he acts on this belief, you would find that he will ignore the teaching of another Black in favor of the teachings of an Albino.
Now in answer to your question:
They lived in Europe, they spoke the European languages, they created the European cultures, they were the nobility and the elites.
What logical reason could you possibility have for doubting that they were indigenous Europeans?
The fact is there is no logical reason; you are merely displaying African tribalism and it's jealousies.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by asante-Korton: And were is your proof that they are black indigenous europeans?
asante-Korton - I will answer you question, but first: I have always wondered why Africa: the birthplace of modern man, the landmass with the longest continual habitation of humans, has never advanced to any great degree. It has always been that Africans achieved greatness AFTER they left Africa. (Egyptians and Nubians excepted).
Forgetting all the great Black civilizations all over the world for a moment: Even the Berbers, once they left Africa they did this:
But once back in Africa they did nothing comparable.
Which leads me to believe that there is something inherent in African tribalism and it's jealousies which acts to stifle advancement.
I have proven this in the behavior of the ignorant Negro. His mindset is obvious: since he is Black and ignorant, then how could anyone like him (Black) be smart? And he acts on this belief, you would find that he will ignore the teaching of another Black in favor of the teachings of an Albino.
Now in answer to your question:
They lived in Europe, they spoke the European languages, they created the European cultures, they were the nobility and the elites.
What logical reason could you possibility have for doubting that they were indigenous Europeans?
The fact is there is no logical reason; you are merely displaying African tribalism and it's jealousies.
Yes africans have never created anything until they left africa
mike you are a african american who thinks he is the original european, you worship white europeans and you wish you could be like them and thats why your so jealous of us africans
Posts: 1064 | Registered: Jan 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Omo baba may find this to be rubbish because he is waiting for Europeans to tell him what is or is not history. Afro-Americans on the otherhand has seen Black/Negro people as One. As a result they have been interested in the history of Black people wherever they lived because African slaves--our ancestors--did not come from one African nation or one part of Africa. This has made us a pan-Negro/Black people.
This is why J.A. Rogers,and other AA researchers never confined themselves solely to studying slavery. We have always written about Blacks in the Americas and Eurasia.
Omo baba is pathetic. He is pathetic because , except for Holl, name another African archaeologist researching African history and who is writing African history. There is none, as a result until a European does the original rsearch--there is no history for anyone to write.
Like most of the negroes who write about ancient Egypt, Omo is waiting to accept African history themes certified by Europeans. This is why most researchers here from the Egyptology Forum support Keita, and crticize Diop. They support Keita only because he is supported by the Eurocentric establishment.
Your call to research none Egyptological themes is a necessary theme for AA researchers. The good thing about your call is that there is established science behind this field of Afrocentricism. Below is the science behind the study of Blacks in the Americas and Eurasia:
posted
^asante-Korton - your reading comprehension is poor, I clearly said (Egyptians and Nubians excepted).
Additionally:
ALL humans are Africans - so what?
Culturally expatriate Africans achieved greatness all over the world, but like achievements are not seen in Africa. Rather than talking nonsense, please explain that.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: ^asante-Korton - your reading comprehension is poor, I clearly said (Egyptians and Nubians excepted).
Additionally:
ALL humans are Africans - so what?
Culturally expatriate Africans achieved greatness all over the world, but like achievements are not seen in Africa. Rather than talking nonsense, please explain that.
You acknowledge that egypt and nubia is in africa yet you still ask what achievements have Africans achieved in africa? and you say im talking nonsense?
Posts: 1064 | Registered: Jan 2011
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quote:Originally posted by asante-Korton: You acknowledge that egypt and nubia is in africa yet you still ask what achievements have Africans achieved in africa? and you say im talking nonsense?
Take a look at a map, and then answer your own question, i.e. what about the rest of it.
Back to African tribalism and it's jealousies.
Europeans settled South Africa in 1652. Since 1800 they ruled it. This was accomplished by hiring Black soldiers and Police to do their bidding. But most importantly, by playing native tribes off against each other.
Few know that the reason the Afrikaners were able to hold on for so long, is because the Zulu tribe actively tried to undermine the ANC. Fearing that an ANC victory would undermine their favored position.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by asante-Korton: You acknowledge that egypt and nubia is in africa yet you still ask what achievements have Africans achieved in africa? and you say im talking nonsense?
Take a look at a map, and then answer your own question, i.e. what about the rest of it.
Back to African tribalism and it's jealousies.
Europeans settled South Africa in 1652. Since 1800 they ruled it. This was accomplished by hiring Black soldiers and Police to do their bidding. But most importantly, by playing native tribes off against each other.
Few know that the reason the Afrikaners were able to hold on for so long, is because the Zulu tribe actively tried to undermine the ANC. Fearing that an ANC victory would undermine their favored position.
What about the rest? What about europe? it was the Greeks who got there civilization from egypt and then they spread that knowledge throughout europe. And then it was the Africa moors who had to go to Spain to re educate them after they lost there knowledge
to me tribalism is just a white mans word, white people think that just because all Africans look alike that they must all be the same but what they don't understand is that these certain groups in Africa have different origins, different languages, different culture etc yet if they all don't get along white people call it tribalism. you need to stop thinking like a white man and start thinking like a black man
Posts: 1064 | Registered: Jan 2011
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quote:Originally posted by asante-Korton: You acknowledge that egypt and nubia is in africa yet you still ask what achievements have Africans achieved in africa? and you say im talking nonsense?
Take a look at a map, and then answer your own question, i.e. what about the rest of it.
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Asante part of my peev with folks like Mike is they took the Euro view that nothing of value came from Africa outside Kemet and Kush, he like his Euro counter parts simply cull that portion of Africa away from the continent I am surprised he did not cull Axum, maybe he forgot they too also had nice shiny buildings still preserved to look at or ancient Karthadast is still nicely preserved in it's Romano from.
But what about the rest of the continent indeed did they have nice shiny buildings that made Euros goshed over?? well Dapper, Olfert. Naukeurige Beschrijvinge der Afrikaensche gewesten. Amsterdam: Jacob von Meurs, 1668:
"The King's court is certainly as large as the town of Haarlem, and is entirely surrounded by a special wall. . . . It is divided into many magnificent palaces, houses, and apartments of the courtiers. Fine galleries, about as large as those on the Exchange at Amsterdam, are supported by wooden pillars, from top to bottom covered with cast copper on which are engraved the pictures of their war exploits and battles, and they are kept very clean."
And lets not forget the folks on the coast who had some of the most beautiful constructed cities of their day according Ibn Battuta.
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damn you Europeans are just too smart for me
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