posted
Miniature of the Immaculate Conception and of Henry VII kneeling, with the trompe l'oeil border, and an illuminated large initial with the royal coat of arms. From the Office of the Mass for the Immaculate Conception England, S.; c. 1485 - c. 1509 Royal 2 A XIX f. 1 The British Library, London
"There is a persistent belief that Greensleeves was composed by Henry VIII for his lover and future queen consort Anne Boleyn. Boleyn allegedly rejected King Henry's attempts to seduce her and this rejection may be referred to in the song when the writer's love "cast me off discourteously". However, Henry did not compose "Greensleeves", which is probably Elizabethan in origin and is based on an Italian style of composition that did not reach England until after his death."
quote:Originally posted by malibudusul: The first was whitened and the others are fake
The others are not fake. You simply made that up with no evidence whatsoever, a lie in fact.
And about the illuminated manuscript you are simply ignorant of what happens to lead based white pigments over time:
Example, the below illuminated manuscript from the 13th c. Byzantine, had a similar lead pigment/gas lamp damage::
It turns out that lead white is blackened on contact from sulfides in the air. The sulfides cause the chemical reaction of lead carbonate to black lead sulfide. Hydrogen sulfide was abundant at the British Library—where the manuscript is conserved—due to the gas lamps used at the museum during the Victorian age. Therefore, the lead white mixed with red pigment for the illustration’s flesh tone has turned to black lead sulfide
Modern Spectroscopy techniques are used to analyze pigments and determine, things like damage or forgery.
You want proof that the lead white pigments darkened and are not in their original state?
Look at the book lying on the table. He's reading a black book? Further, look at a horizontal smudgey long cloud like dirt mark across the floor at the bottom of the scene. Obviously that was not the manuscript in it's original condition, it's soot form the gas lamps.
^^^ you have shown no more evidence that this painting is fake than there is evidence that the illuminated manuscript you posted is a fake.
Stop the fake remarks
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
você precisa ser mais mais rigoroso com a sua investigação .. você não pode simplesmente dizer que esta pessoa o preto por causa de uma imagem. você precisa atravessar sourecs de referência. tente e vist os gallerires e museus. Também olhar para a linhagem e descendentes dessas pessoas ...
onde é que este homem vem? Henrique VII teve muitos filhos para que eles seriam bi racial ....
Não era um homem negro
Posts: 149 | From: united kingdom | Registered: Oct 2011
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quote:Originally posted by element: você precisa ser mais mais rigoroso com a sua investigação .. você não pode simplesmente dizer que esta pessoa o preto por causa de uma imagem. você precisa atravessar sourecs de referência. tente e vist os gallerires e museus. Também olhar para a linhagem e descendentes dessas pessoas ...
onde é que este homem vem? Henrique VII teve muitos filhos para que eles seriam bi racial ....
Não era um homem negro
Bro
Some links or citations?
Lion!
Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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posted
This fixation on images... Why not look for a personal description? Or understand that the symbolism. I believe he was a Black man, as Europe was ruled by Blacks (1100-1848).
você precisa ser mais mais rigoroso com a sua investigação .. você não pode simplesmente dizer que esta pessoa o preto por causa de uma imagem. você precisa atravessar sourecs de referência. tente e vist os gallerires e museus. Também olhar para a linhagem e descendentes dessas pessoas ...
onde é que este homem vem? Henrique VII teve muitos filhos para que eles seriam bi racial ....
Não era um homem negro
Posts: 5454 | From: Holland | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Egmond Codfried: This fixation on images... Why not look for a personal description? Or understand that the symbolism. I believe he was a Black man, as Europe was ruled by Blacks (1100-1848).
If Blacks ruled before 1848 and then whites took over, whites wouldn't bother faking this and that, overpainting and so on. Obvioulsly they would have destroyed the artwork of their "oppressors", the people you claim were monsterous wicked black people skinning white people to use their skin for leather. If you study history this is what happens. If rulership is overthrown, they knock down statutes and burn their symbols. The don't go around trying trying to change these things and make them look like themselves. Revolutions don't work like that. They use new symbols and styles. In a revolution people are qucik to smash statues of their former rulers. When those rulers were alive they would be executed for doing it. So when these things are smashed it shows that the former rulers no longer have power. wake up Egmond
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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You're still the dumbass of ES after all these years!
anguishofbeing - I have never addressed a serious question to you, because I believe you to be a rodent living in someones basement, who, dashes out every now and then to make, what I'm sure you believe to be, a humorous comment. The problem is, rodents don't really understand humor.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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Malibudusul, there is a striking resemblance between the billowy-haired Celtic king in your image and the wedding medallion of Henry VII and Elizabeth of York.
. .
-------------------- The nature of homelife is the fate of the nation. Posts: 2334 | Registered: May 2006
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posted
@ Mike 111 & Egmond.. I don't idle chat on topics so if you have something to say get to the point..
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: element - That was of course a rhetorical question. I know exactly why you chose to believe one over the other.
If you share my opinion that there is no excuse for lackadaisical research then we are in agreement..
quote:
Has my question caused you to re-evaluate yourself; as to how you think and why you think it? [/QB]
Why would a rhetorical question cause me to re-evaluate myself?
. . .
My original comment translated into English with errors.
" you gotta be more rigorous in your research .. you can not just say that this black person because of an image. sourecs you need to cross reference. try and vist the gallerires and museums. Also look at the lineage and descendants of these people ...
Where did this man come from? Henry VII had many children so they would be bi racial ....
There was a black man "
Apologies to Malibudusul ...
Posts: 149 | From: united kingdom | Registered: Oct 2011
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With that straight-jacket, looks like we have a case of projectionism where the perpetrator projects a repressed externalization of their dreaded predicament: meaning, she feels she is the one in dire need of straight-jacketing.
Many whites are treacherous, psychopathological liars. Witness how they twist historical truth into contorted lies where their envious veneration of blacks manifests itself in the form of homocidal imitation (the case in point being how a black Henry VII and Elizabeth of York are turned white [as is virtually the case of every historically first black monarch depicted later as white]).
They figuratively kill the black and resurrect black as white:
posted
Não há fakes aqui, talvez apenas uma recuperação para a cor original. Chumbo enegrece brancos em certas condições, isto é conhecido. Fotos na internet submetido a um editor realmente não esclarecer o situtaion. Você tem que saber a história documentada de restauração de um item e também o contexto com outras páginas
"figuratively kill the black and resurrect black as white."
The web page showed exactly this point where Samas, Nefertiti or Nefriani, Darius, Achilles, Idrimi, Socrates, Tutankamun, Isis and Baby Horus, and Maurice are ALL shown to be historically black first.
Whites committed figurative murder, homocide in resurrecting each of these figures into whites. (And there was frequently real murder and genocide to accompany the figurative homocide)
DISHONEST AND CYNICAL: For an image of Ernest Borgnine and Socrates to be shown with the comment,
you never saw a white guy with a fat nose
is a straw argument as the point was not that whites may not have flat noses but that figurative homocide was created in taking historical images that began black and were made white.
SOCRATES: Furthermore, to present a flat-nosed image of Socrates with a wavy beard is an argument null and void.
It ignores the fact that in The Symposium, Socrates describes himself: (1) with a nose "spread out wide and flat," (2) a "snub nose," and (3) "thick lips." In other words, he describes himself as African / black / Negro.
To show the image of Socrates you did ignores the fact that throughout the Grecian Islands at the time of Socrates, many of their schools produced sculptures of him and any long, straight beards are artistic license. Unless they show thick lips and a nose spread-out wide and flat, they are not portraying Socrates as he described himself.
The major problem with your response is that it was a straw argument and therefore dishonest and cynical.
It ignores the fact that in The Symposium, Socrates describes himself: (1) with a nose "spread out wide and flat," (2) a "snub nose," and (3) "thick lips." In other words, he describes himself as African / black / Negro.
Marc, stop being insane, Socrates had a fat nose and thick lips compared to the average white man. His thick wavy beard should tip you off to the fact that that alone does not = Negro. You are just promoting lies. Sho0w me one published afrocentric writer that says Socrates was black. Come on son. you are a man alone
It ignores the fact that in The Symposium, Socrates describes himself: (1) with a nose "spread out wide and flat," (2) a "snub nose," and (3) "thick lips." In other words, he describes himself as African / black / Negro.
Marc, stop being insane, Socrates had a fat nose and thick lips compared to the average white man. His thick wavy beard should tip you off to the fact that that alone does not = Negro. You are just promoting lies. Sho0w me one published afrocentric writer that says Socrates was black. Come on son. you are a man alone
^^^Caucasoid diversity or Closeted Negro Blood?
Yo gyal
You start acting so silly some times I have to step in and call your ass to order.
Pink-whites are universally known to have thin monkey lips, Pinnochio-like nose and pink flesh. That is pink-white.
Anyother thing is a metisization, or mixing. Historically Europe is one giant melting pot, where Africans mixed with Indians, until the arrival of the Gotha/Slava tribes from Central Asia.
So what is this variability you had brought up? Let's hear your explanation again?
Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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posted
^According to Lionese, one of the distinguishing hallmarks of pink-whites is thick "negro" lips...
Lol!
Do they also have dark skin, and curly hair? And do they also have ancestry in Africa?
Talk about delusional thinking....
You are known for your pink skin, monkey thin lips, big cannine teeth, hairy body, blondie or red hair type, pinnochio-nose.... That is the white phenotype.
Any deviation from the above, indicates a deviation on a genetic level. There must have been a big dark man down the line... hehe
Here is Ryan Giggs. His granddad is a Muurish Sierra Leonian. Go figure: Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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"figuratively kill the black and resurrect black as white."
The web page showed exactly this point where Samas, Nefertiti or Nefriani, Darius, Achilles, Idrimi, Socrates, Tutankamun, Isis and Baby Horus, and Maurice are ALL shown to be historically black first.
Whites committed figurative murder, homocide in resurrecting each of these figures into whites. (And there was frequently real murder and genocide to accompany the figurative homocide)
DISHONEST AND CYNICAL: For an image of Ernest Borgnine and Socrates to be shown with the comment,
you never saw a white guy with a fat nose
is a straw argument as the point was not that whites may not have flat noses but that figurative homocide was created in taking historical images that began black and were made white.
posted
“His body was slender, but well built and strong; his height above average. His appearance was remarkably attractive and his face cheerful, especially when speaking; his eyes were small and blue, his teeth few, poor and blackish; his hair was thin and white; his complexion sallow. "
quote:Originally posted by malibudusul: “His body was slender, but well built and strong; his height above average. His appearance was remarkably attractive and his face cheerful, especially when speaking; his eyes were small and blue, his teeth few, poor and blackish; his hair was thin and white; his complexion sallow. "
Good going Malibudusul, reinforcing your findings with further proof.
My dark brown grandmother had dark blue eyes, in old age her hair was completely white. She used to tell us people came from afar to look at her blue eyes. But she was also very pretty.
Sallow I found in Jane Austen used as light brown of complexion. Like Catharine Morland and Mrs Ferrars and the Bertram ladies.
My idea of Mr. Elton from Emma (1816) by Jane Austen. She describes him as pretty.
Posts: 5454 | From: Holland | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by malibudusul: “His body was slender, but well built and strong; his height above average. His appearance was remarkably attractive and his face cheerful, especially when speaking; his eyes were small and blue, his teeth few, poor and blackish; his hair was thin and white; his complexion sallow. "
The description has him as light brown of complexion, yet the first image shows a very black skinned man. This is what I have been saying, the nobility identified as Moor, although not all fully resembled the Moor. The whitened image does not show blackness as in classical African facial traits. I do not find any dark skinned images of Henry VIII his son, but Elizabeth I was darkskinned, like her mother Anna Boleyn. so all of them identified as Moor, as black, but some were fair, though not white. White they used as shoe leather.
Posts: 5454 | From: Holland | Registered: Aug 2008
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It was recorded of Edward that 'He was tall of stature, higher than ordinary men by head and shoulders, and thereof called Longshank; of swarthy complexion, strong of body, but lean; of a comely favour; his eyes in his anger sparkling like fire; the hair of his head dark and curled. concerning his conditions, as he was in war peaceful, so in peace he was warlike, delighting specially in that kind of hunting , which is to kill stags or other wild beasts with spears. In continency of life he was equal to his father; in acts of valour, far beyond him. He had in him the two wisdoms, not often found in any single; both together seldom or never; an ability of judgement in himself, and a readiness to hear the judgement of others. He was not easily provoked into passion, but once in passion not easily appeased.'
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