BTW - a Charles Finch contacted me on the Africa resource forum and said he went to see the authentic portrayal of Libyan depicted in Lepsius canon. He said it was nothing like the original.
So what you have been trying to spread around the web is lies Lyin_ss.
Dr. Finch wrote - "Lepsius falsified the color of the Tamehou figure. I only know this because I actually went into the tomb of Rames III in 1995 – one of the few times it was open to the public – specifically to look at that Panel of Races. As is known, there are 4 racial types as depicted by Lepsius, but what is not known is that the Panel is reproduced 4 times with the same figures. I don’t know why. But that is not the issue; what is the issue is that the figure of the Tamehou in the tomb of Rameses III is NOT white, but a deep reddish brown, looking FOR ALL THE WORLD LIKE MASAI IN COLORING. One would ONLY know this by looking at the Panel ‘face-to-face’ inside the tomb. Again, Lepsius (c. 1844) – it must have been deliberate – depicted the Tamehou in the wrong color! To my disappointment, it was impossible to take a picture of this remarkable Panel. Cheikh Anta Diop obviously had never actually been inside the tomb of Rameses III, as so many have not, so took Lepsius’s depiction as authentic. I might add the Aamu, representing the Asiatics were ALSO depicted as a deep, reddish brown rather than the beige color represented by Lepsius. Lepsius’s version of the Panel is printed in color as a frontispiece to Van Sertima’s EGYPT REVISTED (1989/1991)." UNQUOTE!
Why am I astonished but not surprised?! Because I keep trying to give early European intelligensia the benefit of the doubt.
BUT ITS NOT WORKING! And I've been as brainwashed as everyone else because I can still hardly believe it!
Some confusion over Book of Gates scene 30 in Ramesses III tomb may be due to confusion between its representation in two separate chambers, one in chamber F and one in chamber J if I'm not mistaken.
It may be true that in some cases Lepsius' artists veered from the exact colors on the wall though off hand I can't recall an instance now.
/6013/2of4th.jpg[/IMG]
Yes - so now i or rather the public needs to be made aware which of the Libyans are dark Maasai colored since it is obviously not clear from any of the renditions presented here.
The Aamu also do not look reddish brown.
I know one thing when and if this tomb is ever opened they better not have repainted them.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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Apparently this creamy depiction of ancient Libyan Tamehou from that tomb by Richard Lepsius does not exist in the real world.
This argument is thus null- and- void, is it not!
dana, why are you still focusing on Lepsius when there is an actual photo of both Libyans and Syrians on the tomb wall posted by alTak near to the top of this page?
detail (one figure):
got any other hearsay? [/QB]
You are true hearsay, two-headed SNAKE. I for one will never forget that when I first looked at your profile it said Sweden at the bottom Your Lyin_ss.
Please stop using a black woman from your avatar. I must admit u could teach Broomhagatha's website a thing or two about diabolicality.
You've done the most to harm the straightening out of history of Africa's early Berbers and Egyptians by making African and other people think your 70 different colored renditions you've posted of Libyans from Lepsius' canon are real. i don't see the Maasai colored Libyans that Dr. Finch saw in the tomb and until I have an appropriate explanation for why I do not, I will have to assume there is some deliberate misrepresentation. if that means somebody has to find a way to take pictures of Libyans and Aamu in the tomb or tombs than so be it.
Boy, was I a pushover.
But I need to thank u because, now everyone can know about the likelihood such paintings were never in existence. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: I for one will never forget that when I first looked at your profile it said Sweden at the bottom Your Lyin_ss.
My profile never listed location. Now either you are outright lying or you are imagining things again. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that once again you are hallucinating what you want to see. (paranoia setting in) I have never been to Sweden missy. However I hate to inform you there are brothas and sistahs in Sweden:
You've done the most to harm the straightening out of history of Africa's early Berbers and Egyptians by making African and other people think your 70 different colored renditions you've posted of Libyans from Lepsius' canon are real.
stop the nonsense the above is not the Lepsius'. The Lepsius are illustrations. The above is a photo of the tomb wall. It is a detail of a photo originally posted by alTakruri. He has also posted the Lepsius illustrations in numerous other threads. Also keep in mind the title of this thread Yurco & Hornung vs. Ampim & Lepsius Yurco and Hornung are the bad guys and Lepsius and Manu Ampim are the good guys according to this thread's topic. In fact it was Diop in Civilization or Barbarism who made the Lepsius illustrations so popular -and he was trying to say they were pointing to the truth. In fact have a look at the numerous references to Libyans in The African Origin of Civilization by Diop and get back to me.
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Lepsius' condensation (Denkmaeler Supplement plate 48) is indeed accurate and authentic. I'm posting that whole plate where all can see it and also another condensation of the same scene but from a different tomb in the upper right half of the plate. That condensation is from KV8 (Merenptah's tomb).
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
i don't see the Maasai colored Libyans that Dr. Finch saw in the tomb and until I have an appropriate explanation for why I do not, I will have to assume there is some deliberate misrepresentation. if that means somebody has to find a way to take pictures of Libyans and Aamu in the tomb or tombs than so be it.
Boy, was I a pushover.
But I need to thank u because, now everyone can know about the likelihood such paintings were never in existence.
dana, relax for a moment. Ancient Libya in the time of Dynastic Egypt was comprised of several different tribes.
For example we notcie two differnt types of Libyans depicted in the Egyptian art:
1) the two first images are Libyans with the two crossing bands across the bare chest. They have long hair and no sidelock. They are sometimes depicted with reddish brown brick-like skin tones
2) below are Libyans with the distinctive side lock (some Egyptians also wore a wider varient of the side lock) These Libyans have a long gown type garment and do not have the two crossing bands acoss a bare chest as in type 1. The also tend to be depicted with lighter skin sometimes yellowish or tawny. Two feathers are often worn at the top of the head. In the tomb of Ramesess III these are left out in order to to display text. These are also the type of Libyans often seen in battle scenes with the Egyptians, the feather heads with side lock
Libyans type 2
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler aka alTakruri (detail from larger version)
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: [QUOTE]dana, why are you still focusing on Lepsius when there is an actual photo of both Libyans and Syrians on the tomb wall posted by alTak near to the top of this page?
got any other hearsay?
You are true hearsay, two-headed SNAKE. I for one will never forget that when I first looked at your profile it said Sweden at the bottom Your Lyin_ss.
Please stop using a black woman from your avatar. I must admit u could teach Broomhagatha's website a thing or two about diabolicality.
You've done the most to harm the straightening out of history of Africa's early Berbers and Egyptians by making African and other people think your 70 different colored renditions you've posted of Libyans from Lepsius' canon are real. i don't see the Maasai colored Libyans that Dr. Finch saw in the tomb and until I have an appropriate explanation for why I do not, I will have to assume there is some deliberate misrepresentation. if that means somebody has to find a way to take pictures of Libyans and Aamu in the tomb or tombs than so be it.
Boy, was I a pushover.
But I need to thank u because, now everyone can know about the likelihood such paintings were never in existence.
lol, good job Dana exposing the bogus "black woman"..
Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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posted
^ Dana has the right idea. These trolls lyinass and anguished are psychopaths to no end. So what's the use of arguing with them.
quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeingjewfrightened: LOL! Unsubstantiated rubbish. Look, stop polluting this thread with your nonsense. This is my final reply to you troll.
First of all, you're the one who brought up the topic of Jews being murdered in gas chambers, so YOU are the one polluting this thread!
Second, of all it is all substantiated by the records both documentation and videos of the perpetrators themselves which is an inconvenience to your lie.
So let's see, someone who pollutes a thread with his off topic neuroses which are outright lies. Yeah, that's very trollish of YOU. Posts: 26246 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by the l'ss who has never traveled outside of his trailer park camper :
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patty:
^^^ Here's another variation. Sidelock hair Libyan with reddish brown skin tone
What Happened to the Ancient Libyans? Chasing Sources across the Sahara from Herodotus to Ibn Khaldun Richard. Smith
Source Journal of World History Volume 14, Number 4, December 2003 pp. 459-500 | 10.1353/jwh.2003.0060
Abstract
Determining group identity in the ancient world, especially when peoples were lumped under the constructs of tribe and ethnicity, was based on point of view, and labeling was a haphazard process.
A case in point is the fate of those North African ancient writers called Libyans.
Did their descendants become the people Arab writers referred to as Sanhaja and Zanata?
Despite a significant degree of cultural discontinuity, the answer seems to be yes. A principal issue is the reliability of sources, which are markedly better for the era of Arab domination than for the ancient period.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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The top picture is of a Tuareg girl but the bottom picture is that of a Rashaida (Arab) girl. Where does the Rashaida girl fit in?
Posts: 26246 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Alright everybody, troll time over and troll time out.
The idea of this thread is not to out-troll the trolls and take the thread further and further off-topic.
The idea is to shed light on the controversial Ramesses III Book of Gates scene 30 as to the lies broadcast about it to counter the veracity of facsimiles and photos of what's actually on the tomb walls.
All this other tripe on Libyan identity, where not at very least peripheral to the subject needs a thread of its own.
Both sides of you trolls, you got that? Take your **** outside. I'm not interested in hits to the thread or keeping it at the top of the list.
Both sets of trolls go start a Libyan identity thread and troll each other out to your hearts' delights.
Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011
| IP: Logged |
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Alright everybody, troll time over and troll time out.
The idea of this thread is not to out-troll the trolls and take the thread further and further off-topic.
The idea is to shed light on the controversial Ramesses III Book of Gates scene 30 as to the lies broadcast about it to counter the veracity of facsimiles and photos of what's actually on the tomb walls.
All this other tripe on Libyan identity, where not at very least peripheral to the subject needs a thread of its own.
Both sides of you trolls, you got that? Take your **** outside. I'm not interested in hits to the thread or keeping it at the top of the list.
Both sets of trolls go start a Libyan identity thread and troll each other out to your hearts' delights.
Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
Apparently this creamy depiction of ancient Libyan Tamehou from that tomb by Richard Lepsius does not exist in the real world.
This argument is thus null- and- void, is it not!
dana, why are you still focusing on Lepsius when there is an actual photo of both Libyans and Syrians on the tomb wall posted by alTak near to the top of this page?
detail (one figure):
got any other hearsay?
You are true hearsay, two-headed SNAKE. I for one will never forget that when I first looked at your profile it said Sweden at the bottom Your Lyin_ss.
Please stop using a black woman from your avatar. I must admit u could teach Broomhagatha's website a thing or two about diabolicality.
You've done the most to harm the straightening out of history of Africa's early Berbers and Egyptians by making African and other people think your 70 different colored renditions you've posted of Libyans from Lepsius' canon are real. i don't see the Maasai colored Libyans that Dr. Finch saw in the tomb and until I have an appropriate explanation for why I do not, I will have to assume there is some deliberate misrepresentation. if that means somebody has to find a way to take pictures of Libyans and Aamu in the tomb or tombs than so be it.
Boy, was I a pushover.
But I need to thank u because, now everyone can know about the likelihood such paintings were never in existence.
Some fact finding team or individual persuing their masters or a doctorate could petition the antiquities ministry for all tomb photos and facsimiles of The Gate of Teka Hra and their verification by limited academic access to the various tombs where it appears.
It was only done a relatively short timespan of ~200 years from Horemhab to the Ramessides and all these 19th dynasty pharaohs may not have had scene 30 painted in any detail and in fact may not have it at all on a wall but rather on a sarcophagous.
And the idea should be to objectively see or record what's actually there not to bolster anybody's prejudiced one sided preferred view.
Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011
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Tukuler, in your opinion is this an honest depiction of some type of Libyan in terms of the color of the Libyan?
I forget if this is an original or illustrated reproduction. If someone one were to put forward that this is a "whitened" depiction of Libyans I don't see the motive. Little is known about the ancient Libyans and I don't see why someone would want to be like them. They didn't leave big monuments and architecture or a lor of writing. Also in these scenes they are getting trampled by the Egyptians, not very flattering Furthermore, their light skin depiction here on adds contrast to the darker Egyptians, the ones everyone wants to be. In fact this picture also implies that many Egyptians were naturally dark and not simply tanned because otherwise they would be looking light like these Libyans, both living at the same latitude. The depiction here is also echoed by Diop
Posts: 42922 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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I for one will never forget that when I first looked at your profile it said Sweden at the bottom
SWEDEN!!!???
Maybe it's my imagination, but I think I was briefly surprised that you were able to post at the same time as me in the morning (London), when Americans on the East coast would still be asleep/just getting up.
A European location would make sense.
Posts: 838 | From: London | Registered: Oct 2011
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I for one will never forget that when I first looked at your profile it said Sweden at the bottom
SWEDEN!!!???
Maybe it's my imagination, but I think I was briefly surprised that you were able to post at the same time as me in the morning (London), when Americans on the East coast would still be asleep/just getting up.
A European location would make sense.
It's a garbage lie. Djehootie and dana lie.
I typically often go to bed at 5:30 AM sometimes later, wake up at 11am-1pm. Also there is an ignorant assumption that there are no Black people in Sweden, James Brown was born there
Guess what, I can make up something like "I noticed Claus said in his profile, 'Black Bisexual' but two days later he deleted it"
If you say this every once in a while the gullible will start to believe it It might be true it might not be true.
For example I heard dana has a large boil on her ass she asked me if I wan't to see a photo of it. I "declined" so I can't be certain if she actually had one. Some people might be into that, I'm not. I don't think it's attractive and I don't want to see pictures of it.
Posts: 42922 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
STOP IT!
STOP MUCKING UP MY THREAD W/THIS IRRELEVANT CHATTER.
posted
^ And you the Jew fearful has lost it long time ago! I know Tukuler's frustration since I too have had threads polluted with filth from trolls and YOU are one of them! All he needs to do is get the moderators (if any are left) to delete the garbage posts. That's all.
Back to the topic...
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: Some fact finding team or individual persuing their masters or a doctorate could petition the antiquities ministry for all tomb photos and facsimiles of The Gate of Teka Hra and their verification by limited academic access to the various tombs where it appears.
It was only done a relatively short timespan of ~200 years from Horemhab to the Ramessides and all these 19th dynasty pharaohs may not have had scene 30 painted in any detail and in fact may not have it at all on a wall but rather on a sarcophagous.
And the idea should be to objectively see or record what's actually there not to bolster anybody's prejudiced one sided preferred view.
Finding Egyptological works on the web is difficult enough by finding actual tomb murals which haven't been seen in its entirety or sections which aren't shown at all is even harder. I agree, this part of scholarship needs serious contacts. I could email Dr. Weeks who specializes in tomb and temple complexes though I hope he isn't too busy to respond. I've tried emailing another Egyptologist recently on something and haven't had much luck.
Posts: 26246 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
^ And the point of you citing all those old quotes of mine is what again? I mean other than the fact that you're obsessed with me.
Tukulur, I will join in your demands to delete idiotic troll posts.
Posts: 26246 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler:
Some fact finding team [of professionals] or individual persuing their masters or a doctorate could petition the antiquities ministry for all tomb photos and facsimiles of The Gate of Teka Hra and their verification by limited academic access to the various tombs where it appears. ... And the idea should be to objectively see or record what's actually there not to bolster anybody's prejudiced one sided preferred view.
Finding Egyptological works on the web is difficult enough by finding actual tomb murals which haven't been seen in its entirety or sections which aren't shown at all is even harder. I agree, this part of scholarship needs serious contacts. I could email Dr. Weeks who specializes in tomb and temple complexes though I hope he isn't too busy to respond. I've tried emailing another Egyptologist recently on something and haven't had much luck.
Good looking, thanks.
Dana worked with Hawass in Egypt years ago. She may know someone or mentor masters candidates who can go directly to Egypt at the source and parley with the antiquities ministry.
BTW there is no moderators and haven't been any for years afaik but you can help by resisting the very tempting urge to have fun and respond to troll bait in this particular thread.
Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011
| IP: Logged |
Apparently this creamy depiction of ancient Libyan Tamehou from that tomb by Richard Lepsius does not exist in the real world.
This argument is thus null- and- void, is it not!
dana, why are you still focusing on Lepsius when there is an actual photo of both Libyans and Syrians on the tomb wall posted by alTak near to the top of this page?
detail (one figure):
got any other hearsay? [/QB]
detail (same one figure): If that's the Libyan photo - what is this?
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
Some fact finding team [of professionals] or individual persuing their masters or a doctorate could petition the antiquities ministry for all tomb photos and facsimiles of The Gate of Teka Hra and their verification by limited academic access to the various tombs where it appears. ... And the idea should be to objectively see or record what's actually there not to bolster anybody's prejudiced one sided preferred view.
Finding Egyptological works on the web is difficult enough by finding actual tomb murals which haven't been seen in its entirety or sections which aren't shown at all is even harder. I agree, this part of scholarship needs serious contacts. I could email Dr. Weeks who specializes in tomb and temple complexes though I hope he isn't too busy to respond. I've tried emailing another Egyptologist recently on something and haven't had much luck.
Good looking, thanks.
Dana worked with Hawass in Egypt years ago. She may know someone or mentor masters candidates who can go directly to Egypt at the source and parley with the antiquities ministry.
BTW there is no moderators and haven't been any for years afaik but you can help by resisting the very tempting urge to have fun and respond to troll bait in this particular thread.
I think a more serious issue is why someone (perhaps Zahi) made it impermissible to take photographs of these paintings in the tombs - especially of those rendered in the Lepsius canon.
That is what Dr. Finch said in his letter.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
^ I know certain flash photography is forbidden because it causes a certain chemical reaction in the air to accelerate decay; however with the advanced imaging technology that we have today, I'm sure there are safer ways of scanning the tomb murals without damaging them. Also, there are plenty of works with full color photographs of many murals from the Valley of the Kings. I don't see why they can't do the same for the Lepsius Cannon or other Teka Hra images.
Posts: 26246 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Again, both Doc Ben and Manu Ampim photographed and published the controversial Book of Gates scene 30 A3MW, NHHSW, and TMHHW in Ramesses III tomb.
Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011
| IP: Logged |
posted
Newsflash from me - a response from Dr. Finch
"Dana
I think I have been into two chambers in the tomb of Rameses III but only one of them had the profile portraits I have talked about. There are actually 16 total portraits, four of each of the four ethnic types represented. The one you show below is still not as deeply, darkly reddish-brown as what I saw in the tomb. Again, I was sorely tempted to take a flash picture but I observed the rules and didn't. And yes the (4) Aamu shown were of the same dark reddish-brown coloration as the Temehou."
Dr. Finch wrote the above back this evening. To contact him please visit his site
I for one will never forget that when I first looked at your profile it said Sweden at the bottom
SWEDEN!!!???
Maybe it's my imagination, but I think I was briefly surprised that you were able to post at the same time as me in the morning (London), when Americans on the East coast would still be asleep/just getting up.
A European location would make sense.
It's a garbage lie. Djehootie and dana lie.
I typically often go to bed at 5:30 AM sometimes later, wake up at 11am-1pm. Also there is an ignorant assumption that there are no Black people in Sweden, James Brown was born there
Guess what, I can make up something like "I noticed Claus said in his profile, 'Black Bisexual' but two days later he deleted it"
If you say this every once in a while the gullible will start to believe it It might be true it might not be true.
For example I heard dana has a large boil on her ass she asked me if I wan't to see a photo of it. I "declined" so I can't be certain if she actually had one. Some people might be into that, I'm not. I don't think it's attractive and I don't want to see pictures of it.
Thanks Claus. Boy oh boy, LYING - I would have thought from this email you have a photocam in my house.
Sweden it is then huh? Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by rasol: We also learn something about the differnce between the transgressive mindset of modern Eurocentric scholarship, and the submissive mindedness of too many Blacks.
The submissive Black man agonizes in confusion over whether Blacks as and ethnonym even exists in ancient times, or were rather essentially 'recently invented' by their white mind-masters.
The transgressive minded Eurocentrist brazenly implies that the Ancient Egyptians erred in self definition! So the Eurocentrists takes it upon himself to cut and paste and chop the photos so as to correct their mistake!
lol
Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
| IP: Logged |
I for one will never forget that when I first looked at your profile it said Sweden at the bottom
SWEDEN!!!???
Maybe it's my imagination, but I think I was briefly surprised that you were able to post at the same time as me in the morning (London), when Americans on the East coast would still be asleep/just getting up.
A European location would make sense.
It's a garbage lie. Djehootie and dana lie.
I typically often go to bed at 5:30 AM sometimes later, wake up at 11am-1pm. Also there is an ignorant assumption that there are no Black people in Sweden, James Brown was born there
Guess what, I can make up something like "I noticed Claus said in his profile, 'Black Bisexual' but two days later he deleted it"
If you say this every once in a while the gullible will start to believe it It might be true it might not be true.
For example I heard dana has a large boil on her ass she asked me if I wan't to see a photo of it. I "declined" so I can't be certain if she actually had one. Some people might be into that, I'm not. I don't think it's attractive and I don't want to see pictures of it.
Thanks Claus. Boy oh boy, LYING - I would have thought from this email you have a photocam in my house.
Sweden it is then huh?
Whaaaat, James Brown born in Sweden?
Is there some alter ego?
The guard father of soul I know was:
Born May 3, 1933 Barnwell, South Carolina, U.S.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
I for one will never forget that when I first looked at your profile it said Sweden at the bottom
SWEDEN!!!???
Maybe it's my imagination, but I think I was briefly surprised that you were able to post at the same time as me in the morning (London), when Americans on the East coast would still be asleep/just getting up.
A European location would make sense.
It's a garbage lie. Djehootie and dana lie.
I typically often go to bed at 5:30 AM sometimes later, wake up at 11am-1pm. Also there is an ignorant assumption that there are no Black people in Sweden, James Brown was born there
Guess what, I can make up something like "I noticed Claus said in his profile, 'Black Bisexual' but two days later he deleted it"
If you say this every once in a while the gullible will start to believe it It might be true it might not be true.
For example I heard dana has a large boil on her ass she asked me if I wan't to see a photo of it. I "declined" so I can't be certain if she actually had one. Some people might be into that, I'm not. I don't think it's attractive and I don't want to see pictures of it.
Thanks Claus. Boy oh boy, LYING - I would have thought from this email you have a photocam in my house.
Sweden it is then huh?
Whaaaat, James Brown born in Sweden?
Is there some alter ego?
The guard father of soul I know was:
Born May 3, 1933 Barnwell, South Carolina, U.S.
I could never look at LYING _SS as James. Too ditsy.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
Didn't he ever think that someone might check? Is the truth so unpalatable that he would risk his academic integrity?
quote: Dear Paul, Those figures in the Lepsius Erganzungsband, pl. 48 are actually not Lepsius' work, but a re-edition done in 1913, as I showed in my article in Egypt in Africa (Bloomington, IN: Indiana University Press, 1997). To make matters worse, the hieroglyph texts between these figures were garbled. The original scenes both in Sety I's tomb and in Ramesses III's tomb showed the Egyptians and the Kushites as distinctly different. Also, the hieroglyphs on the real walls are distributed between each of the four figures depicting each type. You can now view the real photographs of both the Sety I and Ramesses III walls in Hornung's volumes on the Valley of the Kings. I have been inside both tombs myself and have seen these scenes and their texts, and on the basis of this, the depiction in the Erganzungsband is not a real depiction of what is on the walls but rather a pastische, arranged from Lepsius' notes and garbled in the process. It is unfortunate that so many people have depended on this depiction as reality, when a look at the walls in both tombs shows that patently it is not reality.
quote: Dr. [Charles] Finch wrote - "Lepsius falsified the color of the Tamehou figure. I only know this because I actually went into the tomb of Rames III in 1995 – one of the few times it was open to the public – specifically to look at that Panel of Races. As is known, there are 4 racial types as depicted by Lepsius, but what is not known is that the Panel is reproduced 4 times with the same figures. I don’t know why. But that is not the issue; what is the issue is that the figure of the Tamehou in the tomb of Rameses III is NOT white, but a deep reddish brown, looking FOR ALL THE WORLD LIKE MASAI IN COLORING. One would ONLY know this by looking at the Panel ‘face-to-face’ inside the tomb. Again, Lepsius (c. 1844) – it must have been deliberate – depicted the Tamehou in the wrong color! To my disappointment, it was impossible to take a picture of this remarkable Panel. Cheikh Anta Diop obviously had never actually been inside the tomb of Rameses III, as so many have not, so took Lepsius’s depiction as authentic. I might add the Aamu, representing the Asiatics were ALSO depicted as a deep, reddish brown rather than the beige color represented by Lepsius. Lepsius’s version of the Panel is printed in color as a frontispiece to Van Sertima’s EGYPT REVISTED (1989/1991)." UNQUOTE!
Why am I astonished but not surprised?! Because I keep trying to give early European intelligensia the benefit of the doubt.
BUT ITS NOT WORKING! And I've been as brainwashed as everyone else because I can still hardly believe it!
Those figures in the Lepsius Erganzungsband, pl. 48 are actually not Lepsius' work, but a re-edition done in 1913, as I showed in my article in Egypt in Africa (Bloomington, IN: Indiana University Press, 1997). To make matters worse, the hieroglyph texts between these figures were garbled. The original scenes both in Sety I's tomb and in Ramesses III's tomb showed the Egyptians and the Kushites as distinctly different. Also, the hieroglyphs on the real walls are distributed between each of the four figures depicting each type. You can now view the real photographs of both the Sety I and Ramesses III walls in Hornung's volumes on the Valley of the Kings. I have been inside both tombs myself and have seen these scenes and their texts, and on the basis of this, the depiction in the Erganzungsband is not a real depiction of what is on the walls but rather a pastische, arranged from Lepsius' notes and garbled in the process. It is unfortunate that so many people have depended on this depiction as reality, when a look at the walls in both tombs shows that patently it is not reality.
Most sincerely,
Frank J. Yurco University of Chicago
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: I'm not sure what the late Mr. Yurco was trying to pull off here. Erganzungsband only means supplement and it contains artwork from the very artists Lepsius commissioned in his lifetime. The pieces are ones Lepsius himself didn't get to publish before his death.
There's no hieroglyphic "garbling" nor are the "Egyptians and Kushites" on Ramesses III's tomb wall distinct in any way less than a trained detailist would notice.
To that effect, I submit that the Book of Gates 4:5 scene 30 as depicted in Rameses III tomb (KV11f), besides displaying not one phenotypical distinguishing feature, has RT RMT and NHHSW dressed precisely the same down to the minutest detail.
They only differ in that the RT RMT sport earrings and their fabric kilt is form fitting. The NHHSW have nothing attached to their ears and their fabric kilt is loose, hanging to the same level as the skin kilt.
Yurco makes pretend he doesn't know Lepsius' artist was rendering a condensation. He goes on about real walls real photos as if fake walls and fake photos are all that were available before Hornung.
Yurco's poor recall of the KV11f scene, if indeed he ever entered KV11f instead of KV11j, is no excuse for a professional to claim Lepsius' artist's deliberate condensation amounts to no more than "a pastische, arranged from Lepsius' notes and garbled in the process."
His statement "It is unfortunate that so many people have depended on this depiction as reality, when a look at the walls in both tombs shows that patently it is not reality." is only applicable to himself and what he's just written in his letter to Paul.
Forthcoming are further images to support every word of my assessment.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
Sorry, but Finch didn't know what he was talking about since photos prove Lepsius didn't alter colors in this instance.
The lightest Tjemehu were painted creamy colored (peaches and creme / cafe au lait) and I have seen no pink white skinned with blonde hair Tjemehu in any ancient Egyptian art. The lightest their hair ever gets painted is chestnut brown.
This is about all that's left today of the source. As with many archaeology sites, Seti I's tomb has deteriorated since first re-opened in the late 19th c. and as with W African artifacts looting has occured.
Also, be aware that Lepsius published the black skinned Egyptians of Ramses III's BG 4.5.scene30
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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