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Originally posted by Break-the-bull:
And some how the Black who is supposedly the real Libyan becomes the minority, heh? Wait... this is the same outcome for all those other Blacks who are purported to be the true or real this, that, and the other. RFLOL!!!

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Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Troll Patrol:

Huhmmm, Amerindians? Smh!

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Posts: 1340 | Registered: Apr 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

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Originally posted by Break-the-bull:
And some how the Black who is supposedly the real Libyan becomes the minority, heh? Wait... this is the same outcome for all those other Blacks who are purported to be the true or real this, that, and the other. RFLOL!!!

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Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Mazigh:
The sound in video says (translation): eat the flag, eat the flag o Tawargui o dog.

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Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Confirming Truth:
uhh, Europeans were the first in America or did you not receive the memo?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/radical-theory-of-first-americans-places-stone-age-europeans-in-delmarva-20000-years-ago/2012/02/28/gIQA4mriiR_story.html

quote:

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Originally posted by Troll Patrol:

Huhmmm, Amerindians? Smh!

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Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OirEQpRkjks

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Posts: 816 | Registered: Oct 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by typeZeiss:
Not exactly.

They are saying eat the flag, then in another part the guy says something like "you are all dogs" or "all dogs" or something like that. Then they are referring to them to as tawerghi which I looked up and that is a city link ....[/QB]

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Posts: 883 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by ausar:
Don't forget the word Zanj. That is another Arabic name for black people. I think Targui might be Arabic for Tuaregs? The people around Fezzan and the Sahara are mostly black and Tuareg.i

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Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

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Originally posted by Mazigh:

quote:

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Originally posted by typeZeiss:
Not exactly.

They are saying eat the flag, then in another part the guy says something like "you are all dogs" or "all dogs" or something like that. Then they are referring to them to as tawerghi which I looked up and that is a city link ....

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I do almost perfectly understand their language. They said many words, but the most significant is what i translated. He called him "Tawarghi", so he is originating from the city Tawargha.

Tawargha gave its name to Twareg. and are generally Berber speaking. It seems that the city became a ghost city,as your link of wikipedia (your link) says. [/QB]

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Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by lamin:
CT,
The vast majority of the people of the Americas--at least 15,000 years resident--were what are now called in North America "Native Americans". In South America maybe they are called "Indios", but they were the majority for thousands of years.

They were systemically decimated when the Europeans invaded and killed off millions. In Haiti--where you claim origins--the indigenous were just wiped out.

In Mexico the Mayans and Aztecs are no longer the majority and in the U.S. either you are on a barren reservation with a few casinos and plenty booze or you are just the end result of a "breed out". Many so-called Native Americans just look white.

Same for Australia and New Zealand. The majority are now the minority.

In Libya, the Romans once invaded and dropped their seed, then later the Arabs invaded with their single book, water jugs, veils for the ladies, and head choppers for the unruly. The real indigenous have been under pressure since that time.

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Posts: 1340 | Registered: Apr 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by ausar:
TypeZeiss, I know that the Zaji historically has reffered to Eastern African Bantus/Nilotes but its used in northern Africa universally to mean ''black'' Africans. The term abid is not used much in northern Africa but is used quite commonly around ther Gulf Arab states.

In most of northern Africa towns are named after the main ethnic group that inhabit them. Targui is an Arabic term for the Kel tamelsheq aka the tuareg. Most of the Libyan Tuaregs are hated because they want to be independent from the Libyan government. Tuaregs hate Gadafi and the current regine. A good portion of Libyan tuaregs are black but not every one. Check out this famous Tuareg author:

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Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by ausar:
Okay typeZeisss, I cannot speak for Maghrebians except that I am an Egyptian. Egyptian culture is a little different than most other Arabic cultures. Some of the nuiances are similiar but very different.
I do know that Libyans share alot in common culturally with most Egyptians. Infact they are the closest Maghrebians to most Egyptians.

I can honestly tell you melanophobia is pretty rampant in most of Northern Africa. In Egypt there are dark-skinned Egyptians but none of them would ever class themselves in with ''black'' Africans. Even the Nubians criticize adds which showcase them with ''broad'' African features. This may offend people but its the truth.

Was this a result of colonialization or simply Arabic bias? Not certain about either aspects. I just know it exists.

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Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

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quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:
It's not really skin color but ''broad features'' that some Nubians objected to. They may call themselves ''black'' but I doubt they would lump themselves into the same category as Africans from the interior. Trust me most Egyptians are melanophobes. They may be more friendly to African Americans because of their lighter color and affluence but Africans from the interior are treated badly there.

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Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by ausar:
Could it be we just share different experience or different interpretations? I guess the question lies on who has an agenda or not.

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Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Break-the-bull:
And this is your response to science? A Youtube entertainment video (LOL!) Please do us all a favor and remove 'Patrol' from your nic. Thank you!

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Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OirEQpRkjks

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It's the response to a LIE called “Solutrean hypothesis” a radical "theory" . Its makers "probably" paddled from Europe !!!!


Other experts remain unconvinced. “Anyone advancing a radically different hypothesis must be willing to take his licks from skeptics,” said Gary Haynes, an archaeologist at the University of Nevada-Reno.

SO WHAT HAPPENED TO THESE PEOPLE OF EUROPE IN PALEOLITHIC AMERICA IN THE FIRST PLACE, DID THE MAGICALLY DISAPPEAR??



Little is known about the Solutrean people. They lived in Spain, Portugal and southern France beginning about 25,000 years ago. No skeletons have been found, so no DNA is available to study.


Am J Phys Anthropol. 1996 Mar;99(3):413-28.

Cranial variation in the Iberian Peninsula and the Balearic Islands: inferences about the history of the population.

Fox et. al

A multivariate analysis of four prehistoric and nine historic populations from the Iberian Peninsula and Balearic Islands with large sample sizes (n > 30 individuals for the neurocranium and n > 15 for the facial skeleton) is presented, considering 874 male and 557 female skulls and using 20 craniometric measurements. Cluster analyses have been undertaken using the squared Euclidean distance as a measure of proximity and the average linkage between groups (UPGMA), and neighbor-joining algorithms as a branching method, and a bootstrap analysis was used to assess the robustness of the clustering topology. The study was complemented with a principal coordinate analysis and with the application of the Mantel test to measure the degree of correspondence between the information furnished by the female and the male samples. The analyses show that the main source of morphometric variability in the Iberian Peninsula is the Basque population. The second source of variation is provided by two populations (Muslims and Jews), different from the rest from an archaeological and cultural point of view, and can probably be attributed to influences from sub-Saharan Africa. The massive deportations of the Jews in 1492 and of the Moors between the 15th and 17th centuries may have erased this source of variability from the present population of the Iberian Peninsula. The remaining studied populations, including samples from Castile, Cantabria, Andalusia, Catalonia and Balearic Islands, are grouped together, showing a notable morphological homogeneity, despite their temporal and geographic heterogeneity. These results are in general agreement with those obtained in synthetic maps, by analyzing multiple genetic markers. In such studies, the Basque population is described as the main source of genetic variability, not only in the Iberian Peninsula, but also in Western Europe.


Polimorfismos de DNA mitocondrial en poblaciones antiguas de la cuenca mediterránea.


Fernández Domínguez, E. et al.

(2005)

The presence of almost 50% of sub-Saharan lineages L1b, L2 and L3 in Abauntz Chalcolithic deposits and Tres Montes, in Navarre, suggests the existence of an important gene flow from Africa to this geographic region.


The low frequency of these lineages in the current Spanish population indicates that it has gene produced a replacement from the Chalcolithic period.


The entry of African lineages could occur during the Paleolithic, during the Neolithic period, or during both periods.


The phylogenetically related sequences present in the Chalcolithic deposit Iberian Peninsula and Neolithic and Chalcolithic samples of the Middle East points to Neolithic as most likely time of entry into the peninsula of these lineages.


Description: SUMMARY OF DOCTORAL THESIS The origins of European populations have been addressed from different disciplines, highlighting the contribution of population genetics studies. Shuffle two moments in prehistory in which it has been possible to model the gene pool of populations in Europe: the spread of Neolithic and Palaeolithic period expansions. The ability to recover from bygone population genetics provides a unique opportunity to test the assumptions made in situ from other disciplines. We studied 197 samples from 115 dental and bone individuals 17 archaeological sites Sumerian Neolithic and Middle East, when Meroitic Nubia and Paleolithic era, post-Neolithic and Neolithic of the Iberian Peninsula. We obtained complete sequences of mitochondrial DNA of 244 bp of 35 different individuals, were compared with sequences from the same region of present individuals from 38 populations in Europe, Africa and Middle East. In phylogenetic reconstructions based on Reynolds distance groups of ancient samples are grouped together, separated from the rest of current populations. However, phylogenetic reconstructions made from the haplotypes of ancient and modern samples denote that although the majority of ancient mitochondrial variants are not present in current populations sampled, may relate more or less closely with them. The composition of haplotypes and haplogroups of ancient samples from the Near East and the Iberian Peninsula differs markedly from that found in the current populations of these geographical regions. In the ancient Middle East show highlights in particular the absence of mitochondrial haplogroup J, U3, W and X, associated with the Neolithic expansion into Europe. This may be due either to the sample obtained is not old chronologically or geographically-representative populations of the Middle East that spread during the Neolithic well that these variants were not introduced in Europe during the Neolithic. In the ancient sample of the Iberian Peninsula highlights the presence of 50% of sub-Saharan lines. These lines may have been introduced during the Solutrean, the Mesolithic or Neolithic. This work also delved into various technical aspects of obtaining authentic ancient DNA and the influence of several variables in the preservation of genetic material. ABSTRACT The origins of the European Populations Studied extensively from Have Been Different disciplines. It is Thought That ancient demic expansions, like occurred After the Late Those Glacial Maximum or DURING the Middle East from neolithic diffussion to Europe. The Possibility to recover DNA from past Populations offers an unique Opportunity to test in situ These hypothesis. 197 It Were Analyzed teeth and bones from 115 individuos Archaeological Sites and 17 Different from Middle East and the Iberian Peninsula. It WAS possible to recover mitochondrial DNA sequences 244pb-35 from Different Individuals. They Were 38 Compared to sequences from European, African and Middle Eastern Populations present-day. Phylogenetic Reconstructions from Reynolds genetic distance Showed That ancient samples clustered together, extant from Clearly Separated Populations. Howeve, based phylogenetic Reconstructions on ancient and modern mitochondrial haplotypes Showed That ancient haplotypes are related to extant ones. Haplotype frequencies and haplogroup in samples from the ancient Middle East and the Iberian Peninsula are Different from Those Clearly present in the Same Geographical Nowadays regions. Haplogroups related to J neolithic expansion to Europe, U3, W and X-are absent in ancient middle eastern sample. There are two possible Explanations to this fact. First, It Could Be That the ancient samples possible Analyzed wont be representative of the Middle Eastern Populations That expanded the neolithic. Second, It Could Be That Those haplogroups Also possible wont Have Been made to them in Europe associated with expansions to neolithic demic. At This work It Were Also Examined technical Several Aspects related to the obtention of genuine ancient DNA and the Influence of Different variables in DNA preservation.

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James Owen for National Geographic News
December 20, 2005

Europeans inherit their looks from Stone Age hunters, new research suggests.

Scientists studied ancient skeletons from Scandinavia to North Africa and Greece, comparing ancient and modern facial features.

Their analysis suggests modern Europeans are closely related and descended from prehistoric indigenous peoples.

Later Neolithic settlers—notably immigrants who introduced farming from the Near East some 7,500 years ago—contributed little to how Europeans look today, the researchers add.

The scientists described their findings in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences Online Early Edition.

The study suggests that the arrival of farming did not signal a broad wave of colonization as some scientists had thought. Rather, native hunter-gatherers absorbed the farming way of life and those who brought it.

The findings are based on 24 face measurements of modern-day Europeans compared with those of their prehistoric predecessors.

The team focused on facial dimensions which are "neutral" and don't change as human populations adapt over time to different environments and lifestyles.

Because these features are passed down generation to generation, they are good markers of human ancestry, according to lead study author Loring Brace.

The University of Michigan anthropologist says the craniofacial remains of late Stone Age Europeans reflect those of earlier inhabitants who lived 35,000 to 10,000 years ago.

"They're really fairly close," he said.

Ancient peoples had heavier brow ridges than modern Europeans. "The faces were also broader and the jaws were heavier," Brace added.

Skeletal remains from Greece and elsewhere are thought to represent Neolithic settlers who introduced farming from modern-day Syria, Jordan, and Israel. Brace said these remains have facial measurements that don't match those of most present-day Europeans.

The anthropologist added that despite some similarities with modern Mediterranean populations, "the farther north and west you get, the less they resemble the people living there now."

"Modern Europeans don't look like the incoming Neolithic [farmers]," he said.

"It's pretty clear that there's a much larger component of the indigenous foraging peoples across Europe, and they existed in far greater numbers than the archaeological record had led us to believe."

The study suggests that Neolithic remains, which have been taken as evidence of large-scale colonization, are misleading.

Brace says pots associated with Neolithic farmers tended to disintegrate into countless shards, creating the impression of a larger presence than was actually the case.

Early farmers also buried their dead together, unlike the native inhabitants, leaving groups of bodies for archaeologists to later uncover along with other artifacts.

Hunter-gatherers
The researchers say the fact that incoming settlers didn't pass on telltale facial characteristics to later Europeans suggests that they were absorbed by the indigenous hunter-gatherers.

"They absorbed them genetically—and their way of life," Brace said. "Molecular biology is telling us the same story."

Recent DNA analysis of the skeletons of prehistoric farmers found buried in Germany, Austria, and Hungary appears to show that they contributed little to the European gene pool.

A quarter of those analyzed remains share a DNA signature that is now extremely rare worldwide and which has left virtually no trace on living Europeans.

Those findings, described last month in the journal Science, suggest that "the contribution of early farmers could be close to zero," according to Peter Forster, archaeology research fellow at Cambridge University, England.

Other experts now broadly agree that the spread of farming across Europe represents more of a cultural legacy than a genetic one.

"Personally, I think it's a question that can be answered only on a regional basis," said Marek Zvelebil, professor of archaeology at the University of Sheffield, England.

"In some areas, particularly parts of the East Mediterranean and central Europe, you do have small groups of people migrating from the Near East," he said.

"But in most other parts of Europe, particularly western and northern Europe, you have local hunter-gathering people adopting farming."

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http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/12/1220_051220_stoneage_faces_2.html

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Americas Settled by Two Groups of Early Humans, Study Says

Brian Handwerk for National Geographic News
December 12, 2005

At least two distinct groups of early humans colonized the Americas, a new study says, reviving the debate about who the first Americans were and when they arrived.

Anthropologists Walter Neves and Mark Hubbe studied 81 skulls of early humans from South America and found them to be different from both modern and ancient Native Americans.

The 7,500- to 11,000-year-old remains suggest that the oldest settlers of the Americas came from different genetic stock than more recent Native Americans.

Modern Native Americans share traits with Mongoloid peoples of Mongolia, China, and Siberia, the researchers say.

But Neves and Hubbe found that dozens of skulls from Brazil appear much more similar to modern Australians, Melanesians, and Sub-Saharan Africans.

Neves and Hubbe describe their findings in this week's edition of Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

Who Was First?

The scientists examined 81 skulls unearthed over many decades in Brazil's Lagoa Santa region. They represent the largest collection of early American remains, many of which had to be tracked down in European museums.

These "paleoamerican" or "paleoindian" skulls feature projecting lower jaws, broad noses, and broad eye sockets, the researchers report. These traits are unlike those of modern Native Americans.

This strongly suggests that those early Americans were in fact a distinct group, Neves says.

He adds that the group could have crossed the Bering Strait land bridge—the once-exposed landmass between Siberia and Alaska—thousands of years earlier than the Siberian populations who are believed to be the ancestors of modern Native Americans.

Other paleoamerican skulls have displayed similar traits to the Lagoa Santa skulls, which has led to controversy and differing theories about how and when the Americas were settled.

"I don't want people to think that we are proposing any kind of transoceanic migration from Africa or Australia," said Neves, of the University of São Paolo in Brazil.

"We know that these [paleoindian] people had reached China around 20,000 years ago. The Mongoloid population that you see in [northeast] Asia today is more recent. So we don't have to think about transoceanic migrations to explain this."

Genetic Drift

Recent genetic studies of modern human populations have also suggested multiple early migrations across the Bering land bridge.

Neves and colleagues have not been able yet to extract ancient DNA from the Lagoa Santa remains—but excavations are yielding additional ancient remains.

"We have already found at least 20 new skeletons older than 8,000 years that are not part of our paper," he said.

Still, not all scientists are convinced that the variations found in the skulls are proof of multiple migrations to the Americas.

"There is a huge amount of variation among the first Americans, more than you see among any other population outside of the Pacific," said Joseph Powell, an anthropologist at the University of New Mexico in Albuquerque.

"Much of that is genetic, and it comes from the fact, I think, that these first Americans had very small colonizing populations, and they have a great degree of genetic variation due to genetic drift."

Genetic drift describes random variations in a group's genetic makeup. Small populations are especially prone to the phenomenon, because the genes of a single individual play a proportionately larger role in successive generations.

American Theories

For decades most scientists believed that the first Americans were a group of hunters, known as the Clovis people, who entered the Americas via the Bering land bridge some 11,000 to 12,000 years ago.

"I think it has become more widely accepted in the archaeological community that people were here prior to Clovis," said Michael Waters, director of the Center for the Study of First Americans at Texas A&M University in College Station.

Sites in Siberia have shown that people lived in the harsh region on the Asian of the land bridge as early as 27,000 years ago, he added.

"People could survive in that Arctic environment and survive quite well," Waters said. "There would be nothing to stop them from heading east into present-day Alaska."

Moreover, sites like Chile's Monte Verde, where tools have been dated to 12,500 years ago, have bolstered the theory that people were in the Americas before the Clovis period.

"If you look at the time periods when people could have come over by land, it must have been very late, just before Clovis, or prior to the ice sheets that formed over North America reaching their maximum extent around 20,000 years ago," Waters said.

Yet the land bridge theory no longer holds a scientific monopoly.

Some scholars favor coastal migration theories, in which early settlers hopped along the Pacific coast in boats.

More controversial theorists won't rule out the possibility of ocean crossings from Europe or Africa.

However those first Americans arrived, the remains they left behind may be the only clues that could someday tell their story.

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Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by typeZeiss:

quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:
It's not really skin color but ''broad features'' that some Nubians objected to. They may call themselves ''black'' but I doubt they would lump themselves into the same category as Africans from the interior. Trust me most Egyptians are melanophobes. They may be more friendly to African Americans because of their lighter color and affluence but Africans from the interior are treated badly there.

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As I said, my wife lived in Egypt. What she says seems to contradict what you are saying and she has spent time in Aswan, Siwa, Luxor and many other cities in upper egypt.

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Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by typeZeiss:

quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:
Could it be we just share different experience or different interpretations? I guess the question lies on who has an agenda or not.

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nope, has nothing to do with a agenda. Generally speaking, if your a white man, a Nubian is not going to act the same with you as they would with another black, its common sense. Just as if you went to say Sierra Leone. Sierra Leoneans are not going to act the same with you, a white man as they would with me a black man. Its self identification and how you react with others you share something in common with. You are not even a native Egyptian right? I have tried to communicate with you in Arabic on this forum on a number of occasions and received no response. And I only stopped when I saw you or say to someone you were white, not Arab or so that's what I thought I remember. Maybe I am remembering wrong. If I am right though, you can not seriously think a black is going to interact with you the same as they would other blacks. That is universal though, when you go to America that's why you see people living in communities with people of similar background. People like to interact with people they identify with. A good example of this is in Miami. It is not uncommon to see black Hispanics living in clusters with other blacks regardless if they are Hispanic or not. There was a study done like this actually. If I find it, I will post it.

I can go on YouTube right now and show you at least five videos of Nubians call themselves black Africans and identifying with other Africans. One of the most famous cases of this was Anwar Saddat when he self identified as a black man, and then stated "I am the first true Pharaoh in 3,000 years" on account of him being a Nubian. Can you say the same for your case? Also, let us analyse what you have said. You first said Nubians don't identify as Black. Then you changed it to they don't like being shown having broad facial features like that of "sub Saharan Africans" well if you mean, they don't like being caricatured, well duh, neither do any blacks on the planet earth.

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Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by ausar:
I know some dirty secrets about the Nubians that might be a little unpleasant for you to digest.

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Posts: 816 | Registered: Oct 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Break-the-bull:
We are all grown adults. Please share with us, ausar. I am very much interested. Thanks!

quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:
I know some dirty secrets about the Nubians that might be a little unpleasant for you to digest.

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If he would tell you, it would be no secret any longer, logically.

And I never knew you're an adult, you always act as a little fool.

Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Troll Patrol:

quote:

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Originally posted by Break-the-bull:
We are all grown adults. Please share with us, ausar. I am very much interested. Thanks!

quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:
I know some dirty secrets about the Nubians that might be a little unpleasant for you to digest.

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If he would tell you, it would be no secret any longer, logically.

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Posts: 816 | Registered: Oct 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by ausar:
TypeZesis, I am a Coptic Christian Egyptian. Yes, I have lived most of my life in America,so I guess I am slightly biased,but I did grow up in a section of New York City known as Little Cairo. My forebearers were Saidi that came from the Luxor-Aswan region. Most Copts actually come from Middle Egypt from the area Minya to Asyut.

I also interact with Muslim Egyptians on a daily basis and other Arabic or Arabized people.

I never claimed I was white. I mockingly stated I was white to other posters but never proclaimed myself as such.

Could it be that Coptic Christians are more melanophobic? I personally think this might be the case since alot of Copts are actually ''white'' probably because many mixed with Syrian or Armenians or are converts from Levantine areas. Most Copts are light to medium brown like the majority of Egyptians.

I know some dirty secrets about the Nubians that might be a little unpleasant for you to digest.

The general point is the majority of the Arabic world has a hang up on color like the west. Granted Arabs are more accepting but they can also be just as xenophobic and racist but its swept under the rung of the myth of the ummah.

As far as typing in Arabic, this board is mostly English speaking. Its disrespectful to type in a language that most of the chatters here donot know.

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The solution is simple, you can address him in the private section. In a foreign language.

Trying to be helpful.

Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:
TypeZesis, I am a Coptic Christian Egyptian. Yes, I have lived most of my life in America,so I guess I am slightly biased,but I did grow up in a section of New York City known as Little Cairo. My forebearers were Saidi that came from the Luxor-Aswan region. Most Copts actually come from Middle Egypt from the area Minya to Asyut.

I also interact with Muslim Egyptians on a daily basis and other Arabic or Arabized people.

I never claimed I was white. I mockingly stated I was white to other posters but never proclaimed myself as such.

Could it be that Coptic Christians are more melanophobic? I personally think this might be the case since alot of Copts are actually ''white'' probably because many mixed with Syrian or Armenians or are converts from Levantine areas. Most Copts are light to medium brown like the majority of Egyptians.

I know some dirty secrets about the Nubians that might be a little unpleasant for you to digest.

The general point is the majority of the Arabic world has a hang up on color like the west. Granted Arabs are more accepting but they can also be just as xenophobic and racist but its swept under the rung of the myth of the ummah.

As far as typing in Arabic, this board is mostly English speaking. Its disrespectful to type in a language that most of the chatters here donot know.

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Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

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Originally posted by Break-the-bull:
We are all grown adults. Please share with us, ausar. I am very much interested. Thanks!

quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:
I know some dirty secrets about the Nubians that might be a little unpleasant for you to digest.

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Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

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Originally posted by typeZeiss:

quote:

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Originally posted by Break-the-bull:
We are all grown adults. Please share with us, ausar. I am very much interested. Thanks!

quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:
I know some dirty secrets about the Nubians that might be a little unpleasant for you to digest.

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put your thinking cap on. How can he share with you a "dirty little secret" about a people he has admittedly not lived among. IF that's the case, I have a dirty little secret about Eskimos i want to tell you about, but its gonna cost you 1 million.

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Posts: 816 | Registered: Oct 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by ausar:
TypeZesis, I am a Coptic Christian Egyptian. Yes, I have lived most of my life in America,so I guess I am slightly biased,but I did grow up in a section of New York City known as Little Cairo. My forebearers were Saidi that came from the Luxor-Aswan region. Most Copts actually come from Middle Egypt from the area Minya to Asyut.

I also interact with Muslim Egyptians on a daily basis and other Arabic or Arabized people.

I never claimed I was white. I mockingly stated I was white to other posters but never proclaimed myself as such.

Could it be that Coptic Christians are more melanophobic? I personally think this might be the case since alot of Copts are actually ''white'' probably because many mixed with Syrian or Armenians or are converts from Levantine areas. Most Copts are light to medium brown like the majority of Egyptians.

I know some dirty secrets about the Nubians that might be a little unpleasant for you to digest.

The general point is the majority of the Arabic world has a hang up on color like the west. Granted Arabs are more accepting but they can also be just as xenophobic and racist but its swept under the rung of the myth of the ummah.

As far as typing in Arabic, this board is mostly English speaking. Its disrespectful to type in a language that most of the chatters here donot know.

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Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by typeZeiss:

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Originally posted by Break-the-bull:
We are all grown adults. Please share with us, ausar. I am very much interested. Thanks!

quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:
I know some dirty secrets about the Nubians that might be a little unpleasant for you to digest.

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put your thinking cap on. How can he share with you a "dirty little secret" about a people he has admittedly not lived among. IF that's the case, I have a dirty little secret about Eskimos i want to tell you about, but its gonna cost you 1 million.

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Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Break-the-bull:
Just because he did not live with them does not mean that he is not privy to certain of their questionable cultural practices.

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Originally posted by typeZeiss:

quote:

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Originally posted by Break-the-bull:
We are all grown adults. Please share with us, ausar. I am very much interested. Thanks!

quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:
I know some dirty secrets about the Nubians that might be a little unpleasant for you to digest.

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put your thinking cap on. How can he share with you a "dirty little secret" about a people he has admittedly not lived among. IF that's the case, I have a dirty little secret about Eskimos i want to tell you about, but its gonna cost you 1 million.

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Ok, since you wanna know. Nubians procreate amongst themselves. Sometimes with close relatives. OK!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmQRtwrqwQ8


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxBvUqLs_eU

Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by ausar:
That's not the dirty little secret. I don't mention it because it could be misinterpreted by Eurocentrics. Its also something Nubians would never admit to a foreigner.

BTW, Nubians are integrated into the fabric of modern Egyptian culture. Many Arabic speaking Egyptians acknowledge them as the true heirs of the pharoanic throne.

Troll Patrol, most of northern Africa is Arabized. You should know this from countless encounters with so-called Egyptians on this forum. The frequent uses of skin bleaching products indicates that the Arabized world is infacuated with white skin. Egyptians choose their future brides upon the lightness of their skin. This is common place.

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I know, I was being somewhat sarcastic. But it has a serious undertone. C#


Subliminal message.

Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Troll Patrol:

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Originally posted by typeZeiss:

quote:

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Originally posted by Break-the-bull:
We are all grown adults. Please share with us, ausar. I am very much interested. Thanks!

quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:
I know some dirty secrets about the Nubians that might be a little unpleasant for you to digest.

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put your thinking cap on. How can he share with you a "dirty little secret" about a people he has admittedly not lived among. IF that's the case, I have a dirty little secret about Eskimos i want to tell you about, but its gonna cost you 1 million.

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There are rumours everywhere.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVtcp8XHhOo&feature=related

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Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

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Originally posted by Break-the-bull:
Just because he did not live with them does not mean that he is not privy to certain of their questionable cultural practices.

quote:

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Originally posted by typeZeiss:

quote:

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Originally posted by Break-the-bull:
We are all grown adults. Please share with us, ausar. I am very much interested. Thanks!

quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:
I know some dirty secrets about the Nubians that might be a little unpleasant for you to digest.

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put your thinking cap on. How can he share with you a "dirty little secret" about a people he has admittedly not lived among. IF that's the case, I have a dirty little secret about Eskimos i want to tell you about, but its gonna cost you 1 million.

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Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

I don't get why people try to overplay the way Africans Identify ourselves. First off, I can tell you from a basic researching that Nubians DO identify as black and always have, as they are seen by the Mulatto/Tan Egyptians as the Blacks of Egypt and the Nile Valley.

Some videos posted here, the Nubians know who they are..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvn1CTVbAQM&feature=player_embedded

This is who the Nubian has on his wall



Listen to what the Elder says, he clearly see the A.American girl as a "Nubian American" Nubian has come to signify black in Modern Egypt. Not only does he see her and himself as black, but he sees her as part of his people and blood.

I notice Eurocentrics(not saying Ausar is) tend to overplay this whole "Nubian/Egyptian" or Nubian/African thing, yet will ignore their own hatred for Each other(Europeans) in Europe. At one point White Germans tried to genocide their fellow white Jewish bretheren, and fought two World wars against each other(Lets not mention the blood baths from the Middle Ages and prior.) Its so bad that to this day its apperantly from what I understand very awkward for A German to marry an Englishman and so on etc.

I can vouch that as an A.American we don't see ourselves as the same as African from the continent, and why should we, they have different experiences from us, yet no African American in his right mind wont see him/herself and Africans as part of the same heritage/Blood and so called black race.

quote:

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Originally posted by typeZeiss:

quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:
TypeZesis, I am a Coptic Christian Egyptian. Yes, I have lived most of my life in America,so I guess I am slightly biased,but I did grow up in a section of New York City known as Little Cairo. My forebearers were Saidi that came from the Luxor-Aswan region. Most Copts actually come from Middle Egypt from the area Minya to Asyut.

I also interact with Muslim Egyptians on a daily basis and other Arabic or Arabized people.

I never claimed I was white. I mockingly stated I was white to other posters but never proclaimed myself as such.

Could it be that Coptic Christians are more melanophobic? I personally think this might be the case since alot of Copts are actually ''white'' probably because many mixed with Syrian or Armenians or are converts from Levantine areas. Most Copts are light to medium brown like the majority of Egyptians.

I know some dirty secrets about the Nubians that might be a little unpleasant for you to digest.

The general point is the majority of the Arabic world has a hang up on color like the west. Granted Arabs are more accepting but they can also be just as xenophobic and racist but its swept under the rung of the myth of the ummah.

As far as typing in Arabic, this board is mostly English speaking. Its disrespectful to type in a language that most of the chatters here donot know.

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Well now you're changing up what you said originally, and that's fine. I am not going to speak on the Coptic mentality, because I don't know much about them. My wife told me most of them were not indigenous people, so that is neither here nor their for me.

As I have been asserting all along though, the words used among Arabs for black people are Aswad/Suda (plural), which should be familiar to all here. That is where the country Sudan gets its name from, it means Blacks in arabic and any Arab will use that word and know what it means in relation to people. Then there is Asmar and if you want to be a idiot you can used the word 3bid (slave). Also the word Zanji is there as well, but again that originally related to east coast Africans i.e. somali/habashi.

As for Nubians identifying themselves, Again relying on what my wife has told me about the situation there, again since she actually lived in Egypt, and has been throughout Upper Egypt and she has been to Siwa. She said these people called themselves black, the tan Egyptians called them (Nubians) black, they had no problem with being considered black and did not show any hesitation in viewing themselves to be black African.

Now, would they consider themselves to be the same as a Yoruba? No, because they are not. Just as a Mende (what I am) is not the same as a Yoruba. And Igbo is not the same as a Fula etc. However, we are ALL black Africans having our origins in Africa. Also, anyone familiar with Africa knows people from these different kingdoms also have their own idea about each other, sometimes favorable and sometimes unfavorable. From what my wife has said, so called Nubians hold this same view. I don't understand why people get so confused with dealing with black people and how we identify and relate to each other. It is no different than Europeans. Whites have a over all identity as being white and originating in Europe. But then you have your national identity and even sub groups within localities. For example French don't like Brits that much. However, they all still identify with each other based on physical type i.e. white people and as Europeans. It is no different for groups originating in Africa who are indigenous i.e. black peoples.


As I have said before, we can show countless videos of Nubians saying as much on youtube, can you show videos of them asserting your claims or of them talking about your "dirty little secrets", that you claim to hold about a people you have never lived among?

As for the Ummat, leave the Ummat to us, the Muslims. We Muslims know our Ummat far better than you ever could. I am starting to notice a pattern here.

My point with speaking Arabi, was to establish your understanding of Arabic and your familiarity of what is used in N. Africa, since you saw fit to make certain claims about the situation in N. Africa. I have never been to Egypt, so I can not say based on my own experience what is used there. I can only go by what I have heard when speaking with Egyptians in Arabic, that I know here in the states. Also, based on what my wife tells me they used in Egypt (again she lived there). They even have a colloquial saying in Egypt that goes, Black is half the moon and the word used is Samra to denote black. It means brown, literally.

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Posts: 8805 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

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THE BLACK NUBIANS OF THE NILE

Lisa-Anne Julien

Ten days of pyramids, tombs and museums of Cairo left Lisa-Anne Julien impressed but not quite sated. It was only after an Egyptian told her about the black people of Aswan, Southern Egypt, she realized the missing dimension of her trip.

Before my 10 hour train journey from Cairo to Aswan, I was cruelly misinformed that there wasn’t much difference between first and second-class compartments. If you’re ever faced with that choice, opt for first class. Ten hours is a long time in a country that celebrates the culture of tea drinking and at the same time does not practice a culture of keeping clean toilets on a train. But there I shall end my criticism, for I hate it when tourists visit a country and begin every sentence with “why don’t they have …?”. I am happy to say that after my initial shock in the train, the captivating splendour of Aswan relegated any hiccups in the journey to a distant memory.

I had come to Aswan for one thing – to meet the Nubian people, the black Africans of Southern Egypt. The land of Nubia can be found in between modern-day Southern Egypt and Northern Sudan (check other website) and is believed to be the oldest Black culture in Africa. Although the land of Nubia is no longer recognized on the map, due to the migration of its inhabitants to Egypt and Sudan, many of its inhabitants still call themselves Nubians. Certainly, in Aswan, the Nubian people, made no qualms in letting me know “we are Black Africans, not Arabs.”

In trying to find a hotel that my shoe-string budget would not resist, I discovered the notion of “Egyptian Hospitality.” This was by no means facetious. In Aswan, there is no barging into hotels, enquiring about prices after the mandatory pleasantries and hastily making a decision. In the first hotel I entered the manager came to greet me, accompanied by that wonderful ice-breaker, Egyptian tea, and sat down to do business the Egyptian way. After a long and friendly chat, we got to crunch of the matter. It was, as it turned out, out of my price range and so I excused myself graciously. By hotel number four, this process that began with such an admiration for a slap in the face of westernization, was beginning to get on my weary nerves. I could stomach no more tea and simply agreed to the price. It was a great choice, with a fantastic view of the Nile River from the hotel top floor where the pool was kept.

Within a few hours of my stay at the hotel, the maid, a Nubian woman, came to me with a warmth that all tourists who ever visit Nubia speak of. I was to learn later that it is quite unusual to see black visitors in Aswan, as most of the tourists are white Europeans or Americans. So there was a lot of excitement among the Nubian people at seeing a black person, and this maid, Naila, was no exception. She let me know upfront that we were sisters and I was invited to her home for lunch the next day, an invitation I eagerly accepted. As we conversed I allowed my eyes to roam over her face and was intrigued by the manner in which her beauty was highlighted by her hijab.

My walk along the main street of Aswan for the next few hours was punctuated by Nubian men trying to get me to go on a felucca ride. Feluccas are wooden, non-motorised boats which for centuries, have provided transportation across the Nile. A ride is truly a must while in Aswan. However, I wanted to enjoy this experience on my own terms and found myself becoming quite exasperated at the continual interjection of my space by the marriage of tourism and money. While I stood at the edge of a pier watching the feluccas, my long dreadlocks did not go amiss to an astute young man. “Rasta!” he shouted. “Whaaaat??” I thought, who is this tiny town of Aswan knows anything about Rasta? He introduced himself as Ziggy. As in Marley? I immediately felt a sense of closeness to him and plunged into a barrage of questions about where I could possibly get some solitary time close to the Nile. He hailed a taxi and we were off. There is virtually no street crime in Aswan or even Cairo for that matter, so the issue of safety was nicely tucked away at the back of my mind.

Ziggy took me on the outskirts of Aswan where we switched into a small rowboat. We set sail to the other side of the Nile and to Ziggy’s village. The quaint set of flat-topped houses transported me into another realm and the serenity of the setting made it an enchanting experience. Upon meeting Ziggly’s father, who is a teacher of science and mathematics in the village, a quiet wisdom could be felt exuding from him. The all-too-familiar tea was brought in and for a second I could have been in the Caribbean, the US of UK, all places where I have social networks and feel familiar. It was at this point that Ziggy offered to put me up for the few days I was in Aswan. It seems as though accommodating tourists was part of the Nubian culture. The previous year they had hosted a European traveler who, to this day, keeps in contact and sends his friends to visit the village. Although I was tempted to accept his offer, I knew I wanted my own space and time on this holiday so, as graciously as I could, I opted to remain in my hotel.

Later that day, Ziggy took me to a breathtaking part of the Nile, where I could see a village embedded in the mountains along with a convoy of camels in a distance. It was a perfect site for meditation. As I watched the river flow from South to North, I thought of thirsts it had quenched throughout the history of time, from the flowers in the Garden of Eden to the Egyptian workers building the pyramids to the clothes washed and beaten upon rocks by the Nubians today. As the sun marched its way down into the Nile, I finally treated myself to a felucca ride (in Ziggy’s felucca of course).

My sister came to fetch me for lunch the next day as promised. Walking through her village with her, there was a deep sense of contentment about life emanating from her; like she, without even having ever left Aswan, knew the futility of running after the ever-elusive dollar. When I saw the feast her mother had prepared for me, I was humbled almost to tears. The hospitality was overwhelming and we spent the next few hours going to the homes of her family. At each home, I was obliged to have tea and although their English was as good as my Arabic, a universal language prevailed that gave credence to the notion of an African personality.

By day three, I felt obligated to engage in some typical tourist behavior. I decided to take a boat across to the Temple of Isis but more commonly known as the Philae Temple. The Temple of Isis was built in the 4th century BC, a tribute to the goddess of motherhood and sexuality. Standing in the middle of the vast courtyard and observing the written history inscribed on the temple’s walls, the greatness of Egyptian civilization became apparent to me. This is the place where African men and women shaped the known world. The world, including Greece came to Egypt to learn religious systems called the Mysteries. Going even further back to Nubian history, the Geeks and Egyptians spoke of the mysteries of the Nubian world and the secrets of its wealth and knowledge of trade and industry. The construction of a dam in Aswan 1960 saw the excavation of over 5,000 Nubian artifacts and also unearthed insights into the lost Kingdoms of Nubia.

My last day in Aswan was spent bustling through the markets, namely the Nubian Bazaar. I quickly discovered also the notion of bargaining, Nubian style. Not only is it a means of reducing prices, but it is also as a way of socialising with others. As I bargained, I reminisced on what pre-colonial African markets may have been like. As I understand it, back then, everything revolved around the market and market-days. The days of the week were known as one-day after market day, two-days after market day and so on. To bargain meant having and wanting a conversation with someone, whereas to simply agree on an initial price, or disagree and walk off implied that you did not care to speak to the person. In Aswan, the same feeling pervaded, the bargaining process was a polite way of facilitating human connections. How far we have strayed from who we were!

As Naila helped me pack my bags for Cairo, I ever so subtly placed a tip in her hand for the cleaning and her hospitality far beyond her job. Naila’s expression, mirroring disappointment, was anything but subtle; she firmly placed the money back in my hand and said, “No, Lisa, you are my sister, I only ask that you write and send me some pictures of your holiday here.” As I lounged back into the plush seats of first class, I thought of Naila’s simple request. She, Ziggy and the others had given unconditionally and even if there was a shimmer of expectation in terms of money, the manner in which they sustained their livelihoods was done with grace and devoid of the nasty sting of capitalism. The inner beauty of the Nubian people, can any day, go head to head with the construction of the Pyramids as one of the many wonders of the world.

Lisa-Anne Julien is Trinidadian-born and currently residing in Johannesburg. By profession, she is a gender researcher. She is also a freelance writer and has written for a number of publication, which include Y Mag, Bl!nk, Sunday Times, New African to name a few.

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Posts: 8805 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

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Originally posted by typeZeiss:


P.S. clear your inbox man

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Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged |