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alTakruri~
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I came across this drivel here recently, besides the usual ongoing
mouth foaming anti-black/African sentiments of those who have made this
forum a racial divide, so I dug up a forgotten (or buried) article with
census statistics showing how low IQ continental Africans perform in academic persuits.


"Theodore Cross

Journal of Blacks in Higher Education, The

03-31-1994

Black Africans Now the Most Highly Educated Group in British Society.

New census data from Britain makes life very difficult for the advocates of scientific racism.

RECENTLY, POLITICIANS, SCHOLARS, and social commentators in the United Kingdom were started to receive the results of a new census report on the academic standing of various ethnic groups in Britain.

Black Africans in the United Kingdom are now the most highly educated members of British society. According to British Census, over 26 percent of adult black Africans in the United Kingdom hold academic qualifications higher than "A" or college levels compared with only 13.4 percent for white adults in the U.K. In short, blacks in the U.K. with African origins are outperforming British whites by a ratio of two to one.

Probably the most striking fact to turn up in the census is that in college qualifications... "
http://static.highbeam.com/j/journalofblacksinhighereducationthe/march311994/blackafricansnowthemosthighlyeducatedgroupinbritis/index.html


And an update:

The 2001 Census (ONS, Crown Copyright 2003) showed 38.8% of all 16-74 year-old black Africans held higher qualifications, compared to a national average of 19.8%.


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Supercar
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Interesting dig.
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alTakruri~
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And as for Scotland

All minority ethnic groups in Scotland are at least as or more likely to have degrees (or equivalent) than White Scottish people. Those most likely to have degrees from ethnic minority groups are Africans, people from ‘Other’ ethnic groups and Indians.

Pakistanis are also the most likely to have no qualifications (43%) followed by Chinese people (38%) and White Scottish people (35%). In contrast, only 15% of African people aged 16-74 years have no qualifications.

People aged 35-54 years:
The group with the highest proportion of people educated to degree level or above is African (61%).

People aged 55-74 years:
The group with the highest proportion of people educated to degree level is the African group (47%)

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/library5/social/aescr-07.asp

[This message has been edited by alTakruri~ (edited 06 April 2005).]


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Keins
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deleted post!

[This message has been edited by Keins (edited 07 April 2005).]


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trexmaster
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Now THIS should shock the "race realists"!
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Horemheb
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There is no question Africans have a lower AVERAGE IQ than most others. The reasons are varied and open to debate but it does impact the regions ability to keep up in the modern world.
Anyone reading most of the posts on this board would draw that conclusion as well./

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trexmaster
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That may be true as of NOW, but we do have proof that Africans are not necessarily less intelligent by nature.

Besides, when much of Europe was still in a stage of tribalism, copper-hued Africans built the pyramids.


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Horemheb
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The people who built the Pyramids will not solve the problems African's have today. I'm not optomistic for Africa or many areas in Latin America.
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Kem-Au
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quote:
Originally posted by trexmaster:
That may be true as of NOW, but we do have proof that Africans are not necessarily less intelligent by nature.

Besides, when much of Europe was still in a stage of tribalism, copper-hued Africans built the pyramids.


After reading Thought's post about saving this forum I'm a little disturbed by this post. Please re-read alTakruri's posts carefully. And be careful of people like Horemheb. I want to believe that he's not a bad person, but he most certainly has no clue. Please do not fall into his trap.


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Horemheb
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kem...you are so PC I can't imagine how you dress yourself in the morning. Africa has serious seroious problems. Forcasts range from cautiously optomistic to dreadful. One thing for sure, there is no chance at a solution as long as you continue to stick your head in the sand.
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lamin
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But there's an insidious flip side to the fact that Africans in Britain tend to be more educated than other non-European groups. What the statistics show is that the most educated elements of African society are being skimmed off to fill the skill gaps in British society more than any other non-European group. This obviosly means that the "brain drain" to the West affects Africa more than it affects Asia(China and Pakistan examples).

This unfortunately parallels--but to a lesser extent--what occurred during less technological times when African "muscle power" was forcefully employed by Western Europe to create the surpluses needed for economic growth and technological change in the West.

Obviously Africa would be better off if all those African engineers, chemists, medical doctors, football players worked in Africa than in Europe. And increasingly African athletes are accepting the money bait to switch nationalities so that their host nations gain some new international prominence. Kenya and Nigeria have been most affected by this.

Putting aside talk about the validity of IQ scores, it is obvious that African nations are forced or openly tricked to play an economics game in which the West--through the IMF, WB, WTO, etc.--has set rules that reward African labour skills in Africa among the world's least remunerated.

Example: a taxi driver in Nigeria would see remuneration for his skills multiply 60 times were he to transfer them immediately to Europe or America. And it has nothing to do with supply and demand but rather a whole lot to do with the political and ideological clout of the IMF and the WB--both institutions necessarily--no real skills test here, only quota rules enforced--headed by someone of European stock.


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lamin
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last sentence truncated--don't know why.

So here goes: "...headed by someone of European stock". The rule is that the WB must be headed by an American and the IMF by an European.


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Obenga
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Don't confuse an IQ score with a rating of intellect. We don't know what intelligence is yet. So how can they measure what has not been truly defined.

Don't listen to a white supremacist if you are not one of them.


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Horemheb
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lamin, I agree with you about the brain drain. That is a problem but you can't blame the Africans who leave. They have a chance to provide for their families at a much higher level.
What would you propose to solve the problem of African economic development?

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lamin
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To Obenga:

Intelligence could be defined as follows:

But one should bear in mind that "intelligence" is always contextual: the individual--human or animal--is faced with a problem and seeks to solve it based on prior and stored environmental inputs. Think of the brain or central nervous system as the hard-drive of a computer. There must be programmed inputs before the computer can solve the tasks put to it.

I say contextual because each situation requires a specific intelligence. Thus the intelligence of a lion would be different from that of a porpoise or human. But in all cases there must be stored knowledge inputs that serve as a templates for problem solutions.

The problem with the nativist argument is that it maximally discounts the plasticity of the human brain and the
role that environmental inputs play in the development of cognitive skills.

The truth is that since all humans have easily inter-translatable languages with formualated rules of syntax(dep structure cf. Chomsky) natural human intelligence would be similar on average across all groups regardless of environmental origins.


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Horemheb
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lamin, all of the research now shows that children who reach first grade below reading level NEVER catch up. The problem seems to be that all of those brain connections MUST be made in the first two or three years. If they are not made then they cannot be made. Many minority kids, and some majority kids simply do not have the stimulation at hope to compete verbally in life. (We can see examples of that with rasol, Super Car and Thoughtless).
To the extent that the problem is enviormental then DRASTIC action needs to take place for these kids at a VERY young age.

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lamin
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To Horemheb

The 3 musketeers are much more than your ad hominems claim. I am sure they would handle your personal references on their behalf if and when they feel like it--with extreme verbal skill.

Your point about reading levels is problematic. Take the case of Sedar Seghor, a Serer from Senegal, and late president of Senegal. Sedar Senghor was such an expert--he obviously knew French more than 99.9% of all Frenchmen--in French that he was appointed "membre de l'aceademie francaise" an august body of language experts who patrol the borders of the French language for unwanted inputs. Senghor first spoke Serer and Wolof then later learned to read French--most likely at the age of at least 10 years--before moving on to more advanced studies in the language. And there are millions of almost similar cases. So you are wrong on your claims re language acquisition. The human mind is quite plastic and learning can take place even into an advanced age--all things being equal.


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Horemheb
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lamin...I'm not wrong about the reading...most of those connectors are made by age two or three. All of us in the education business know it, its is what makes the problem so difficult.
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lamin
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To Horemheb

African Economic Development

There have been thousands of books and articles written on this subject but the solution is obvious.

1)At the individual level the individual needs access to capital for an education--i.e acquisition of a skill.

Banks and the State(with tax money) could solve the problem, but they don't.

Banks in Africa cater mainly to expatriate Lebanese, Indian and European businessmen, rarely to Africans.

Governments are indebted to the IMF. the WB and other non-African credit agencies so there's little cash for infrastructural needs

Solution 1: Those African countries that bulge with OPEC and petroleum proceeds daily--Nigeria, Libya, Angola, Gabon, Sudan, etc.--daily could bank their proceeds with the African Development Bank(based in Ivory Coast) which could then be parceled out to local Co-operative banks to finance skill training and capital to put that skill into practice. Someone trained to be a computer repairman should be able to get bank capital to set up his own shop. Multiply that principle millions of time and you have a solution in motion.


Solution 2:

Intracontinental trade could be improved by removing the colonial boundaries that hinder travel, trade and employment.

Solution 3:

South Africa produces and and has the infrastructure to produce most consumer items for Africa. It can serve as the development hub for all of Southern Africa with the Rand as a "hard" reserve currency. The same Common Market principles could be established for West, East, and North Africa.

Brazil and China produce all that Africa could need in terms of hi-tech goods--at a much cheaper cost. So trading links with Europe and America should be de-emphasised. And Brazil is quite close to West Africa--so trading links would be easy to establish.

Instead there are very few flights to Brazil from West Africa and most go through Europe. That nonsense could be easily solved with political will.


Solution 4:

African governments should learn to be as dishonest, opportunistic, hypocritical and racist as their European counterparts in dealing with the IMF, WB, WTO, and the G8 Club.

African governments should seek to establish a single continental currency that is convertible at par with the currencies of the Euro-zone. I just don't see why New Zealand's currency is convertible at almost par with the dollar given that that tiny country produces nothing but wool, wool and more wool.

In this regard African governments might want want to seek coaching from those 419 boys from Nigeria.

The reason that the above never gets implemented is that African governments are just too cowardly to want to challenge the unfair hand they have been dealt


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lamin
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To Horemheb re "reading skills":

I was laughlingly amused at your reply.
I just don't know what you mean by "connectors". Are you talking "ghost in the machine" stuff here?


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Horemheb
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lamin, When you are born you begin to rapidly acquire information....because at that age we have none. A chemical connection is made every time you learn a word or see a symbol. The ability to learn is much greater at a very young age than it is later on. You can find a good deal of 'early childhood development ' material at your local library.
In any event it is important that we get as much information as we can to these kids at as young an age as possible. If you have small children in your family and you read to them every day when they are very young it will make a major difference. the problem is that many parents won't or worse, they can't read well themselves and have no interest in it.

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lamin
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To Horemheb:

So I imagine that Shakespeare's parents read to him too. Or that Senghor's parents read to him. Or Immanuel Kant's parents read heavy philosophy to him from the day he saw light in Konigsberg.

Solution: just have good schools with good teachers and less stupid television.

The Scandinavians and French have mastered the art of teaching children to read all with their great kindergartens and "jardins d'enfants".


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Horemheb
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Thats right lamin, we need to do a better job at a younger age for these kids. If the parents are lacking then the schools need to take up the slack. I just wonder how many people really care. You hear a lot of talk but not much action. In Africa they need to really go after these younger kids...problem is we get these corrupt governments who want to steal all the money. That is true in many places.
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ausar
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I agree that romantization of history will not benfit anybody. It won't benefit modern Egyptians nor will it benefit anybody African or non-African or otherwise. This is often the type of romantization I am often guilty of an Egyptian trying to fall back upon 5,000 years of history for the modern era.


My perpective is that you can bridge the old with the new. In the case with many regions in Africa you can incorporate older traditions in with newer ones that will build up the countries. For instance, many Westerners through neglect of study in the area of Africa don't realize that Africans had a complex systems of checks and balances that often kept tyranical leaders in check. Also benefical is using little things like herbal medicine to prevent and help the symptons of AIDS.



Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
windstorm2005
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quote:
ausar wrote:
I agree that romantization of history will not benfit anybody. It won't benefit modern Egyptians nor will it benefit anybody African or non-African or otherwise. This is often the type of romantization I am often guilty of an Egyptian trying to fall back upon 5,000 years of history for the modern era.

The more I learn about AE, the more I think the AE way of looking at the world has a lot to contribute to modern thinking, among african people in particular. And its art has power unlike I've thus far discovered in other ancient artwork.

Lots of other people would agree with the above. I don't think that's romanticization.

--

On the "IQ" tip: Ho-boy, if you think Rasol is lacking in the brains department, then that puts *you* on the level of a spider monkey. I've learned more truth from just a few of his posts that I've learned from *any* of yours.

But my main point: I don't think black people should dignify debates about our own brain-power.

Just know that people who are adamant about insulting the collective intelligence of black folk are waging war of a sort. It's a war on the psyche. Mounting an appropriate response to that is important, but engaging them in debate about it is pretty much the weakest response.

It would be nice if their saying we're stupid -- e.g. GULLIBLE -- made it that much harder for them to pit us against one another. That's an "iq" test in itself!

Thank you, and have a safe drive home.

P.s.: I'm pretty sure Ho-boy's not being real with us half the time. It's becoming more clear he doesn't believe the stuff he writes. It's all good though, he's serving his purpose...

[This message has been edited by windstorm2005 (edited 14 April 2005).]


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alTakruri
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Finally found it PrincessJin to tie in to your Africans not Smart Enough thread

see also
http://www.phpbb-host.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=67&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=&mforum=thenile

Note: spammers have forced deletion of all of
our general topic posts on the old Nile Valley
forum. Somebody please police the site before
all our valuable and researchable entries are
force deleted from the index.

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Djehuti
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quote:
Originally posted by Horemheb:

There is no question Africans have a lower AVERAGE IQ than most others.

The only question is what on what scientific basis is there to the claim made by Hore above?

I see more and more Africans in high intellect jobs than I do whites. Many science and technology industries are literally importing their engineers and scientists from Africa than they are from Europe. Obviously, Hore's claims must be rooted more in empty emotional rhetoric than on any scientific basis.

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Obelisk_18
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quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:
Originally posted by Horemheb:

There is no question Africans have a lower AVERAGE IQ than most others.

The only question is what on what scientific basis is there to the claim made by Hore above?

I see more and more Africans in high intellect jobs than I do whites. Many science and technology industries are literally importing their engineers and scientists from Africa than they are from Europe. Obviously, Hore's claims must be rooted more in empty emotional rhetoric than on any scientific basis.

oooh so you're a science major? what college ya go to mahne?
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Djehuti
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^ Yes, but what made you think I was a science major let alone in college? I merely pointed out what was going on in the American professional industries.

I go to Georgia State, by the way.

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Arwa
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quote:
Originally posted by ausar:
I agree that romantization of history will not benfit anybody. It won't benefit modern Egyptians nor will it benefit anybody African or non-African or otherwise. This is often the type of romantization I am often guilty of an Egyptian trying to fall back upon 5,000 years of history for the modern era.


My perpective is that you can bridge the old with the new. In the case with many regions in Africa you can incorporate older traditions in with newer ones that will build up the countries. For instance, many Westerners through neglect of study in the area of Africa don't realize that Africans had a complex systems of checks and balances that often kept tyranical leaders in check. Also benefical is using little things like herbal medicine to prevent and help the symptons of AIDS.

You are right Ausar,

To romanticize the old times could be dangerous--especially for the rulers. But again, who are we if we don't know our history?

I see history as a guide from my ancestors -- to teach me who I am and where I come from.

This summer, I have watched this documentary (missed the first episode of five)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/programmes/howart/

and you will realize our ancestors were more advanced than we think, and I am sure they have more to teach us.

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alTakruri
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^

This was a pre-split thread and that's why it's
in Egyptology instead of now in Ancient Egypt.

Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ponsford
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If Africans have a low I.Q. it cannot be based on genetics.Africans have the greatest genetic diversity than all other groups combined-Tishkoff et al.It could be on some other factor why Africans on average score lower on I.Q. tests.In any case an "average" is just a statistic.
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