posted
Ok so on my quest to make a concise wiki that will make this information accessible I wanted to go ahead and discuss the origins of Haplogroup M.
I'm no expert on haplogroups. So I wanted to go over the points I thought from what I read seemed like they were covered and what points I either missed (that you guys could point out) or that need to be addressed in some fashion.
Points I'm not so sure were addressed from wikipedia
*The geographic distribution of M1 in Africa is predominantly North African/supra-equatorial[3] and is largely confined to Afro-Asiatic speakers,[15] which is inconsistent with the Sub-Saharan distribution of sub-clades of haplogroups L3 and L2 that have similar time depths.
*The highest frequencies worldwide of macrohaplogroup M are observed in Asia, specifically in India and Bangladesh, where frequencies range from 60%-80%.
*The fact that the M1 sub-clade of macrohaplogroup M has a coalescence age which overlaps with that of haplogroup U6 (a Eurasian haplogroup whose presence in Africa is due to a back-migration from West Asia) and the distribution of U6 in Africa is also restricted to the same North African and Horn African populations as M1 supports the scenario that M1 and U6 were part of the same population expansion from Asia to Africa
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posted
We all know that haplogroups were to more sharply differentiate the further people got from Africa, and that some of these people, hunting and gathering over a wide area may have crossed back into Africa. But that does not make said peoples who came back "Asian" or "Middle Eastern." Haplogroup M1 in Arabia, for example is a clear marker of East African provenance, not some "EUrasian" invasion. And most of the "Afro-Asiatic" languages originate in Africa casting doubt on attempts to create some sort of artifical split in African bio-history via use of the "Afro-Asiatic" label.
EUro spin is in place to deAfricanize as much of NE Africa as possible, and lump in under a "Eurasian" or "Middle Eastern" label. The WIki moles will edit out scholarship to the contrary. This is how they work. But see below, where several scholars hold that M1 is primarily based in Africa, and indeed differentiation of haplogroups BEGAN INSIDE Africa BEFORE significant migration out of the continent. IN other words, Thus when the OOA migrants moved out they did not cease being African and suddenly become "Asian" or "Middle Eastern" simply because they stepped off the Sinai Penisula. If you follow the logic of some who use the Eurocentric labeling game, then a white guy who steps across the border into Mexico, suddenly becomes "Hispanic race." This is the bogus model they are trying to push on African diversity- De-Africanize anything where African civilization and development in NE Africa can be shown.
BUt they STILL fail on another count. Even so-called "backflow" migrants resemble tropical Africans more than their beloved "Eurasians" or "Middle Easterners." SO they fail on 2 counts:
(1) Differentiation of the haplogroups began INSIDE Africa BEFORE significant OOA migrations. In other words the variability groundwork was already laid inside Africa. Further differentiation would of course occur outside Africa over the millennia as populations spread, as all know. But Africans did not suddenly become "Eurasian" by walking into Arabia, or crossing a few miles of water into Yemen.
(2) Any incoming "back-flowees" would ALREADY resemble tropical Africans. People in Yemen for example crossing back over into Ethiopia, circa 40,000 BC would resemble today's tropical Africans as shown below. Do not fall for the slick "Eurasian" labeling game. This is not merely my opinion. See heavyweight mainstream scholars quoted below that take issue with the "Eurasian" game being played in the academy and elsewhere.
On your WIkiquest, good luck. You will find the data herein edited out- either immediately, or over time. But such "airbrushing" tactics ultimately fail, because the data is represented here at ES and elsewhere with good representation in Google.
Gene divergence predates population divergence: several scholars hold that Haplogroup M began initial differentiation in Africa before major development elsewhere outside. QUOTES:
"In Africa, the three most ancient mtDNA haplogroups (L0, L1, and L2), which make up macrohaplogroup L, are specific for sub-Saharan Africa. African macrohaplogroup L radiated to form the Africa-specific haplogroup L3 as well as the Eurasian macrohaplogroups M and N. M and N arose in northeastern Africa and individuals bearing M and N mtDNAs subsequently left Africa to colonize Europe and Asia." ----Dan Mishmar, et al 2003. Natural selection shaped regional mtDNA variation in humans. Proc Natl Acad Sci 100(1): 171-176.
"All non-Africans have inherited a subset of African mtDNA haplogroup L3 lineages, differentiated into haplogroups M and N. The lack of other L3 lineages among all non-African mitochondria suggests that the earliest migration(s) of AMH already carried those two mtDNA ancestors or that they have replaced previously extant lineages. Haplogroup M is present in Ethiopia, but the rest of M is densely distributed throughout South and East Asia and is absent in the Near East and Europe. " --Phillip Endicott, et al, Reply to Cordaux and Stoneking. Am J Hum Genet. 2003 June; 72(6): 1590-1593.
"The observed timing discrepancies between genetic and archeological estimates are simply explained by the fact that the divergence of genes predates that of populations.." --Cordaux et al (2003) South Asia, the Andamanese and the genetic evidence.. Am J Hum Genet 72:
"the lack of L3 lineages other than M and N in India and among non-African mitochondria in general suggests that the earliest migration(s) of modern humans already carried these two mtDNA ancestors, via a departure route over the Horn of Africa." -- Kivisild et al., Metspalu et al. (2003). "The Genetic Heritage of the Earliest Settlers Persists Both in Indian Tribal and Caste Populations". Amr Jr Hum Genet 72 (2):
In Africa, only one autochthonous basal branch of M, named M1, has been detected.. M1 is particularly abundant in Ethiopia (20%).. In Arabia, M lineages account for 7% of the total and half of them belong to the M1 African clade.. As the majority of M1 haplotypes in Arabia belong to the East African M1a sub-clade, it seems that, likewise L lineages, the M1 presence in the Arabian peninsula signals a predominant East African influence since the Neolithic onwards." -- Petraglia, M and Rose, J (2010). The Evolution of Human Populations in Arabia:.. Springer. p. 90
Misleading "Eurasian" label for ancient mtDNA flagged by some scholars - QUOTE: "The historical linguistic data reported earlier would apply in the case of maternal lineages as well.. it is not likely that the "northern" genetic profile is simply due to "Eurasians" having colonized supra-Saharan regions from external African sources. It might be likely that the greater percentage of haplotypes called "Eurasian" are predominantly, although not solely, of indigenous African origin. As a term "Eurasian" is likely misleading, since it suggests a single locale of geographical origins. This is because it can be postulated that differentiation of the L3* haplogroup began before the emigration out of Africa, and that there would be indigenous supra-Saharan/Saharan or Horn-supra-Saharan haplotypes. More work and careful analysis of mtDNA and the archeological data and likely probabilities is needed. Early hunting and gathering paleolithic populations can be modeled as having roamed between northern Africa and Eurasia, leaving an asymmetrical distribution of various derivative variants over a wide region, giving the appearance of Eurasian incursion." --Keita, A, Boyce, A. (2005) Genetics, Egypt, and History... History in Africa, 32, 221-246
Posts: 5906 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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posted
ATTENTION TO ALL!!!!! YOU MUST READ THIS AND TH ENTIRE THREAD!!!!!!!
There was a member by the name of Salsassin that has created several fake names and has created several fake personalities which he uses to talk with himself on the board! He has several fake names and I will share with you all a few that exist here right now!
1) Mike111 Member # 9361 This Mike111 name plays the role of a hardcore afrocentric who insists that Whites are Dravidian Albinos even though TRUE Dravidians possess ZERO% Neanderthal DNA
2) the lioness Member # 17353
Lioness plays the role of imbecile and it comes naturally!
3)Clyde Winters Member # 10129 This person has impersonated Dr. Clyde Winters on Egyptsearch for SIX years! The REAL Dr. Clyde Winters is not a member of Egyptsearch and he plays the role of the educated Afrocentrist, but insists that Neanderthal existed in Africa
THE REAL DR. CLYDE WINTERS CAN BE REACHED @cwinters@govst.edu
4) ausar ""Moderator""Member # 1797 is another fictitious name that has made it all the way to the position of Moderator where he has the power to delete posts!
THESE ARE JUST ONE OF MANY OF SALSASSINS FAKE NAMES! PLEASE MAKE NOTE OF IT! There are MANY many more!!!!!
IM GIVING YOUR SITES SOME PLAY YOU STRINGY HAIRED PINK ASSED MONKEY!
ATTENTION!!!!!!
Here are just a few of the fake websites associated with Dr. Clyde Winters
THEY CAN ALL BE USED SGAINST HIM BECAUSE 90% OF THE INFORMATION IS ACCURATE! IT IS ONLY WHEN YOU KNOW WHAT IS INNACCURATE AND CAN RECOGNIZE THE INTENTIONAL LIES WITHIN THAT THE SITES BECOME POWERFUL FOR YOU!!!!
JUST REMEMBER A FEW THINGS
1) Neanderthal and Denissova NEVER existed in Africa but rather evolved from much older apes that left Africa in Central asia were both 48 chromosome apes, more distant from modern man than a Gorilla or a Chimp
2) The indigenous people of Europe were black Africans (Grimaldi man and Cro magnon)
3) Whites as Dravidian Albinos is laughable and untrue, because TRUE Dravidians possess ZERO% Neanderthal DNA
4) Whites and mongols NEVER left Africa because they did not exist in Africa, Whites and mongols are the offspring of 48 chromosome apes Neanderthal and Denisova
5) AND ALWAYS REMEMBER THIS!!!!
WHITES AND MONGOLD SHARE ZERO % Y-LINE DNA WITH ANY AFRICAN OR EAST ASIAN AND THE REASON FOR THAT IS THEIR DADDY WAS A 48 CHROMOSOME APE
when you understand that, this site is really uselful!
posted
NOTICE THE DISCLAIMERS ON THE LINKS THAT THIS STRINGY HAIRED MONKEY DROPS IN HIS ATTEMPT TO IMPERSONATE CLYDE WINTERS!
There was a member by the name of Salsassin that has created several fake names and has created several fake personalities which he uses to talk with himself on the board! He has several fake names and I will share with you all a few that exist here right now!
1) Mike111 Member # 9361 This Mike111 name plays the role of a hardcore afrocentric who insists that Whites are Dravidian Albinos even though TRUE Dravidians possess ZERO% Neanderthal DNA
2) the lioness Member # 17353
Lioness plays the role of imbecile and it comes naturally!
3)Clyde Winters Member # 10129 This person has impersonated Dr. Clyde Winters on Egyptsearch for SIX years! The REAL Dr. Clyde Winters is not a member of Egyptsearch and he plays the role of the educated Afrocentrist, but insists that Neanderthal existed in Africa
THE REAL DR. CLYDE WINTERS CAN BE REACHED @cwinters@govst.edu
4) ausar ""Moderator""Member # 1797 is another fictitious name that has made it all the way to the position of Moderator where he has the power to delete posts!
THESE ARE JUST ONE OF MANY OF SALSASSINS FAKE NAMES! PLEASE MAKE NOTE OF IT! There are MANY many more!!!!!
IM GIVING YOUR SITES SOME PLAY YOU STRINGY HAIRED PINK ASSED MONKEY!
ATTENTION!!!!!!
Here are just a few of the fake websites associated with Dr. Clyde Winters
THEY CAN ALL BE USED SGAINST HIM BECAUSE 90% OF THE INFORMATION IS ACCURATE! IT IS ONLY WHEN YOU KNOW WHAT IS INNACCURATE AND CAN RECOGNIZE THE INTENTIONAL LIES WITHIN THAT THE SITES BECOME POWERFUL FOR YOU!!!!
JUST REMEMBER A FEW THINGS
1) Neanderthal and Denissova NEVER existed in Africa but rather evolved from much older apes that left Africa in Central asia were both 48 chromosome apes, more distant from modern man than a Gorilla or a Chimp
2) The indigenous people of Europe were black Africans (Grimaldi man and Cro magnon)
3) Whites as Dravidian Albinos is laughable and untrue, because TRUE Dravidians possess ZERO% Neanderthal DNA
4) Whites and mongols NEVER left Africa because they did not exist in Africa, Whites and mongols are the offspring of 48 chromosome apes Neanderthal and Denisova
5) AND ALWAYS REMEMBER THIS!!!!
WHITES AND MONGOLD SHARE ZERO % Y-LINE DNA WITH ANY AFRICAN OR EAST ASIAN AND THE REASON FOR THAT IS THEIR DADDY WAS A 48 CHROMOSOME APE
when you understand that, this site is really uselful!
posted
Given that the Andaman Islanders are in the vast majority of M mtDNA--then it's proof that M is of African origin, not Asian.
I have argued before that the Andaman Islanders have retained their African phenotypes over 50,000--which is evidence of what African looked like as they spread out all over Africa and the rest of the world.
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