Some Polynesian dance preserves many modern African dance steps and possibly a variety of ancient Egyptian movement and dance
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
Around 4kya a megalithic culture expanded from Africa to the Islands in the Indian and Pacific Oceans. The people who carried this culture lived in Nubia. They probably belonged to the C-Group. These people were called Kushites. These Kushites mainly spoke Niger-Congo languages.
Tonga step pyramid
First, the Fijians claim they came from Africa. We know a megalithic culture expanded from Africa into the Indian/Pacific Ocean areas after 2000 BC.
Pyramid of Mauritius
Secondly, African place names are found in the Pacific and correspondences between lexical items.
Common Terms:
English Manding Melanesian Polynesian
arrow bye,bya fana,pane fana,pana
Father baba babi papa
Man tye ta taga-ta
head ku tequ-qa tuku-noa
pot daga taga taga
vase bara pora,bora bora-bora
fish yege ige, ika ika
ox, cattle konga,gunga kede kuda
The ancient Austronesians cultivated rice, millet, yams and sugarcane. (Bellwood 1990, p.92)
It would appear that the Polynesians learned agriculture from the Manding as illustrated below:
Polynesian English Manding
*talun fallow, land daa
*tanem to plant, sow daa
*suluq torch, jet of flame suu
*kuDen cooking pot,bowl ku
This evidence provides linguistic and anthropological support for the Fiji tradition. It is wrong that you guys deny a people history just because your European masters to do not present evidence in support of a native tradition.
If you keep waiting for Europeans to verify our history you will have a long wait.
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-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
Recently Williams John Page (1988) discussed the Lakato Hypothesis. The Lakato Hypothesis stated simply implies that the Melanesian people of Fiji were carried to the Pacific Islands by Indonesian maritime merchants after they had colonized parts of East and central Africa. In these Indonesian centers, Page (1988) believes that the Africans "gravitated into the Indonesian inspired trade". Page (1988) wrote that :
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"It is further suggested that the Lakato colonies in Africa were the principal contributors to the earliest settlements of Malagasy and responsible for the traces of Indonesian influence in Africa which have endured into modern times, as identified by previous investigators".
To support this hypothesis Page (1988) presents place names that are made up of African ethnic names (AEN) as roots for Fijian placenames. These toponyms include a multitude of hills, streams and villages composed of a simple AEN root plus a Fijian placenames e.g.,koro, wai-ni-, vatu and na-. Page (1988, p.34) found 270 AEN's forming part of Fijian place names (FPN). The interesting fact about the AEN and FPN cognates is that they are found in West Africa and not East Africa. (Page 1988, p.47)
This fact negates Page's (1988) hypothesis because there are no rivers in Africa that link East Africa and West Africa. This suggest that Africans who later settled West Africa must have been in the Pacific long before the Austronesians arrived on Madagascar. This view is supported by the fact that the classical mongoloid people did not arrive in the Pacific area until after 500 B.C.
Page (1988,p.66) believes that the AEN-FPN cognates are the result of the establishment of Indonesian colonies first along the Zambia river and from there into Central and Western Africa between the fourth and eleventh centuries A.D. During this period Bantu speakers are believed to have been incorporated into the Indonesian Lakota culture and between the eleventh to sixteenth A.D. settled in Melanesia by Lakota fleets. (Page 1988, p.66) Although Page's (1988,p.67) theory is interesting the fact that the AENs that are FPN's are prefixed to a multitude of hills, streams and villages" indicate that these place names are very old because the names for hills and streams are rarely changed.
Page (1988, p.67) noted four common prefixes used in the FPN's: Koro 'village,hill', wai-ni- 'water of'; vatu- 'stone'; and na- 'the'. These terms are closely related to Manding terms as illustrated below:
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FPN English Manding koro hill kuru koro village so-koro wai-ni water of ba-ni 'course of water' vatu stone bete na the ni
As illustrated above the AENs and Manding terms are analogous for 'hill', 'the' and 'of'. It would appear that the FPN /w/ corresponds to Manding /b/. Due to the thousands of miles separating the Manding and AENs, this cognate can be explained as loan words. Given the full agreement of these terms suggest a genetic relationship between AENs and Manding and descent from Paleo-African.
In addition to AENs serving as FPNs we find many toponyms in Oceania that corresponds to West African place names. Below we see 36 place names from Oceania and WestAfrica that share full correspondence. Manding ,Polynesian and Melanesian share many terms for kinship, dwellings, topographical features, dwellings and utensils.
A recent article on Nigerian place names in India was published by Dr. R. Balakrishnan titled "African roots of the Dravidian-speaking Tribes: A case in Onomastics", International Journal of Dravidian Linguistics, 34(1) (2005),pp.153-202. Like Baiye, Dr. Balakrishnan found almost 500 Nigerian placenames, and 46 tribal names in Koraput, India; and 110 ethnonyms of Koyas in Nigeria. This led Dr. Balakrishnan to declare that :"However, the overwhelming evidence available from the toponymic corpuses of Koraput and Nigeria, and ethnonyms, surnames and personal names of Koyas seem more adequate to propose an African origin to the Koyas, the Dravidian speakers" (p.177)
It is interesting to note that we find Koya placenames in Nigeria, and Nigerian place names on the East Coast of India (Balakrishnan), Nigerian place names throughout the Pacific (Page) and Nigerian placenames and surnames in Japan (Baiye).
This shows a direct spread of Nigerian place names from Africa, across the Indian Ocean into the Pacific. The discovery of common placenames in three different regions can not be accounted by coincidence.
These names had to have been carried by humans.
These people share similar placenames because when they left Nubia to settle West Africa and the Islands they named settlements after places in Nubia and the Saharan highlands.
posted
Haplotypes with HVSI transitions defining 16129- 16223-16249-16278-16311-16362; and 16129-16223- 16234-16249-16211-16362 have been found in Thailand and among the Han Chinese (Fucharoen et al., 2001; Yao et al., 2002) and these were originally thought to be members of Haplogroup M1. However, on the basis of currently available FGS sequences, carriers of these markers have been found to be in the D4a branch of Haplogroup D, the most widespread branch of M 1 in East Asia (Fucharoen et al., 2001; Yao et al., 2002). The transitions 16129, 16189, 16249 and 16311 are known to be recurrent in various branches of Haplogroup M, especially M1 and D4.
This leads one to assume that M1 in Melanesia is called D4, to make it appear that both negro groups are not related.
There are other genetic markers which point to a relationship between the Fijians and Africans. For example, haplogroup V appears in New Guinea, while haplogroup IV has been found only in New Guinea, Near Oceania and Northwestern most Micronesia according to Merriwether et al., Mitochondrial DNA in the South Pacific, p.159, in SS Papilia, R. Deka & R. Chakraborty (Ed.), Genomic Diversity.In Cordaux et al.,Mitochodrial DNA analysis reveals diverse tribal histories of tribal populations from India, Eur. J Hum Genet (2003)11(2):253-264, in figure 2 notes that Clusters X1 and X are found in Africa and the Pacific.
The figure makes it clear that Africans and PNG share X,and Xl.This proves a relationship exist.
Africans and Fijians share the Y-Chromosome K-M9. The K haplogroup is found in Africa and Oceania. The common Fijian Y-chromosome is M-M4; it exist as derived subgroup M-P34 of Melanesians. Both of these genes are found in among Africans see: Figure 2, in Wood et al., Contrasting Patterns of Y chromosome, Eur J Hum Genet (2005),13:867-876.
Merriwether et al. Origins and dispersal in the mtDNA region V 9bp deletion and insertion in Nigeria and the Ivory Coast, Am. J Hum Genet (1994) noted that Africans and Asians share the T-->C transition at nt position 16189 and the D-loop sequence of nts 15975 to 00048.
Haplotype X(hX) is found among people of Tanzania and Chad. Shimada et al argue that X(hX) is found in Melanesia.
Makoto K. Shimada*, , Karuna Panchapakesan , Sarah A. Tishkoff , Alejandro Q. Nato, Jr* and Jody HeY, Divergent Haplotypes and Human History as Revealed in a Worldwide Survey of X-Linked DNA Sequence Variation, Molecular Biology and Evolution 2007 24(3):687-698
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-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Around 4kya a megalithic culture expanded from Africa to the Islands in the Indian and Pacific Oceans. The people who carried this culture lived in Nubia. They probably belonged to the C-Group. These people were called Kushites. These Kushites mainly spoke Niger-Congo languages.
Tonga step pyramid
First, the Fijians claim they came from Africa. We know a megalithic culture expanded from Africa into the Indian/Pacific Ocean areas after 2000 BC.
Pyramid of Mauritius
Secondly, African place names are found in the Pacific and correspondences between lexical items.
Common Terms:
English Manding Melanesian Polynesian
arrow bye,bya fana,pane fana,pana
Father baba babi papa
Man tye ta taga-ta
head ku tequ-qa tuku-noa
pot daga taga taga
vase bara pora,bora bora-bora
fish yege ige, ika ika
ox, cattle konga,gunga kede kuda
The ancient Austronesians cultivated rice, millet, yams and sugarcane. (Bellwood 1990, p.92)
It would appear that the Polynesians learned agriculture from the Manding as illustrated below:
Polynesian English Manding
*talun fallow, land daa
*tanem to plant, sow daa
*suluq torch, jet of flame suu
*kuDen cooking pot,bowl ku
This evidence provides linguistic and anthropological support for the Fiji tradition. It is wrong that you guys deny a people history just because your European masters to do not present evidence in support of a native tradition.
If you keep waiting for Europeans to verify our history you will have a long wait.
.
I'm not interested in getting into a debate about Bantu and Mande influences, but the tribal and island name Tonga is strangely similar to the southeastern AFrican or Bantu tribal name Tonga. Fijians claim to have come from Eastern Africa from what I understand. THe rainmakers figure prominently among the Tonga people as they do in Polynesian/South Pacific culture.
Of course several scholars find correspondences between Bantu and South Pacific dialects as well.
Some of these large boned black people in the south pacific like the family of Kamehameha appear to have had that distinctive grey streak around the front part or crown of their heads that Bantu like Julius Nyrere have been seen to have before they become entirely grey.
I do agree an affiliation of Nubians was probable because of the many resemblances between Kahuna religious elements and ancient Egyptians ones.
Hawaiian princess Kaahumanu
Tonga leader in Africa
Many Tongan people of the South Pacific still have an Africoid or Bantuish look
Tonga rugby players from South Pacific
Tonga and Vanuatu are at the seat of Polynesian culture
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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Some Polynesian dance preserves many modern African dance steps and possibly a variety of ancient Egyptian movement and dance
Dana, please tell me you are not buying into this pseudo-scholarly nonsense that the blacks of the Pacific have anything to do with Africans, let alone 'Nubians'! Posts: 26267 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
It would be more than just coincidence that Africans and Pacific Melanesians are congruent in terms of phenotypical traits.
How does one explain that? Genotypical differences are just chromosomal accidents that geneticists call mutations. Their importance is that they reflect time of separation of groups.
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Dana, please tell me you are not buying into this pseudo-scholarly nonsense that the blacks of the Pacific have anything to do with Africans, let alone 'Nubians'!
Simple observation indicates that they are identical. What evidence or motivation do you offer that would make one disbelieve their own eyes for your unstated contrary belief?
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Dana, please tell me you are not buying into this pseudo-scholarly nonsense that the blacks of the Pacific have anything to do with Africans, let alone 'Nubians'!
Simple observation indicates that they are identical. What evidence or motivation do you offer that would make one disbelieve their own eyes for your unstated contrary belief?
Djehuti - I am so disappointed! Clearly you felt that if you posted it, then I would jump all over it.
Well, I'm going to jump all over it anyway.
From a Philippine history site.
(As everyone should know, the Negritos are the original settlers of the Philippines).
Possible origins of the Negritos
Many experts believe that the Andamanese islanders have a common ancestry with the Negritos and it is believed that they have been isolated by the waves of Asian and Indo-Aryan migrations for thousands of years. The claim that Andamanese pygmoids more closely resemble Africans than Asians in their cranial morphology in a 1973 study added some weight to this theory before genetic studies pointed to a closer relationship with Asians.
Other more recent studies have shown closer craniometric affinities to Egyptians and Europeans than to Sub Saharan populations such as that of African Pygmies. Walter Neves' study of the Lagoa Santa people had the incidental correlation of showing Andamanese as classifying closer to Egyptians and Europeans than any Sub Saharan population. Multiple studies also show that Negritos from Southeast Asia to New Guinea share a closer cranial affinity with Australo-Melanesians. Further evidence for Asian ancestry is in craniometric markers such as sundadonty, shared by Asian and Negrito populations.
The Nesiots reached the islands
About 3000 BC, a loose confederation of peoples known as 'Nesiots' ( Proto-Malays according to Jean Buxton), from what today is Indonesia, came to the Philippines. They were to become the ancestors of the present-day Luzon and Mindanao hill tribes. There were two waves of successive Nesiot immigration. The first wave saw a people who have light complexions, aquiline noses, thin lips, and deep-set eyes. The second wave of migration were shorter and heavier in physique, having darker complexion, thick lips, large noses, and heavy jaws.
Djehuti my boy, as I said to you previously, all mulattoes like you do is muddy the water by transferring your racial confusions and wannabe White aspirations onto the innocents.
You must know in your brain that nonsense like that is just the Albino man trying to distance himself from his Black African roots, and thus his Albinohood, by claiming other light skinned people with his features existed.
I mean REALLY: light complexions, aquiline noses, thin lips, and deep-set eyes.
WHO FROM WHERE IN INDONESIA????
He,he,he: There is absolutely NO evidence of any such people: That is merely mulattoes doing what the pure Albinos are so good at - "Fantasizing"
(The men on the left are admixed Negritos/Mongol mulattoes).
.
For the un-indoctrinated; As in the other countries now mostly populated by Albino mulattoes, there is a move afoot in the Philippines, and other places, to establish this type as close to the original inhabitants.
posted
The ancestors of Polynesians migrated into the area 60,000 years ago. The Nubian civlilization started about 7000 years ago.
Posts: 42935 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness: The ancestors of Polynesians migrated into the area 60,000 years ago. The Nubian civlilization started about 7000 years ago.
Post your data supporting this claim.
There is no archaeological evidence of Polynesians 60kya.Most Pacific cultures date back to the Lapita culture
Some Polynesian dance preserves many modern African dance steps and possibly a variety of ancient Egyptian movement and dance
Dana, please tell me you are not buying into this pseudo-scholarly nonsense that the blacks of the Pacific have anything to do with Africans, let alone 'Nubians'!
Djehuti are you telling me that you don't think Africans made it to the Americas and the South Pacific as the Fijians say they did.
I have never understood your comment and belief that all blacks populations east of Arabia come from some singular source in the Paleolithic. Especially when these groups are very different culturally and biologically and claim different origins.
Obviously people are not going to just start building pyramids all over creation with similar internal dimensions and musical scales, pottery, rituals and deities unless there was contact of some sort.
I don't believe in polygenetic theory and THAT is the pseudoanthoropological nonsense that you are claiming is more reasonable.
Sorry but I am with Graham-Dunn, Dr. Van Sertima and above all with common sense with this. As always. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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