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Author Topic: Stealing Africa
Doug M
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quote:
Originally posted by africurious:
Another thing I'd add is that it's so spurious to talk about africa relinquishing money by having foreign corporations extracting resources. The money africa gets from those foreign corps can be seen in the many fancy homes, vehicles, clothes of the ppl in gov't and their families and friends. Not to mention the foreign bank accounts where these gov't officials stash their loot.

A couple of Africans will a little money does not change the situation for most Africans overall. By that logic since you got Oprah Winfrey, there is no poverty or problems among black folks in America. Or because you got Wyclef Jean there is no poverty or problems among black folks in Haiti. And certainly the same goes true for Africa overall.

The problem is that black folks think like INDIVIDUALS not as a NATION. So if I have a job and I have a car or whatever other trinkets I deem important, then black folks are doing good, or better yet, who cares how black folks are doing. But who made those trinkets? Not black folks. And who gave you the money to buy those trinkets? Again, not black folks. So at the end of the day you got a bunch of mindless consumers happy to not be empowered or in control of ANYTHING because they got a couple extra dollars over some other black person. NOBODY else on the planet thinks like that and that is why EVERYONE else is doing better AS A GROUP than Africans. Asians, Europeans and Native Americans are able to do so much better because they don't think like black folks. And for all that individualist talk of European society, they sure don't operate like that. They are quick to circle the wagons when they feel threatened. Black folks just keep pulling their own wagons separate from each other and don't care if any of them are threatened or not except if THEY get threatened.

It is funny to hear black folks talk like they got money when on any scale they are at the bottom of EVERY ladder of wealth and power in the world. But somehow they are able to live in fantasy world and pretend that this is not the case.... lol.

So I guess because SOME black individuals got SOME money, none of the below is reality:

Child tobacco slavery in Malawi:
quote:
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Environment/Pix/columnists/2011/9/13/1315923366726/MDG--Malawi-tobacco-child-013.jpg[/IMG]
[Quote]
At the height of the tobacco harvest season, Malawi's lush, flowing fields are filled with young children picking the big green-yellow leaves. Some can count their age on one hand.

One of them is five-year-old Olofala, who works every day with his parents in rural Kasungu, one of Malawi's key tobacco growing districts. When asked if he will go to school next year, he shrugs his shoulders.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/global-development/2011/sep/14/malawi-child-labour-tobacco-industry

 -
http://postcards.delcampe.net/page/item/id,120462706,var,Malawi-Tobacco-farming-auction-rooms,language,E.html

Now, just because you see black folks growing the tobacco and selling it at auction, don't be fooled. They are simply share croppers who work primarily for the British and other foreigners who make tobacco products. That is why they are poor. And their government does not allow them to create huge farms for growing food for other Africans or themselves. Therefore, Malawi is primarily still a British/Dutch run tobacco and tea colony. But you know negroes, they will find some way to spin this into something GOOD for Africans.

quote:

Tobacco is produced in both large estates, concentrated in the central plateaus of the country, and in small landholdings throughout the country. These smaller farms average about 2.5 acres (10,000 m2), about a third of the size of small tobacco producing farms in the United States. For small farms with less than 1-acre (4,000 m2) in tobacco cultivation, four out of five farms have a negative income. The other farms average an agricultural income of MK 3,000 or about 20 US dollars.[11]

Most of Malawi's tobacco is sold through global leaf processing companies Universal Leaf Corporation and Alliance One International. The primary buyers of Malawian tobacco are Philip Morris International and British American Tobacco. Tobacco growers in Malawi have three options to sell their product. Tobacco growers can sell their product on auction floors through tobacco clubs. The unit price is high when sold at auction, but producers must have at least 100 kilogram. Growers can also sell directly to ADMARC, the Agricultural Development and Marketing Corporation. This practice fell out of favor after liberalization in the early 1990s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_industry_in_Malawi

quote:

Dolophina Manguluza sits alone under a make-shift shelter in Namasoko Village, Mkumba in Malawi's Phalombe district. Aged 45, Dolophina is not happy as she ponders the unfortunate turn her life has taken since she started working for various tobacco estates as a tenant in 1983.

Wearing a sullen and haggard expression, cold tears trickle down her swollen eyes as she recounts the events which led her here:

"When I left my home together with my husband and two children and found a job here, I expected to make a fortune," she recalls while sorting out tobacco leaves. "I was determined to deal with poverty once and for all. Most of the times, even neglecting my motherly role but things never worked out the way we envisioned."

Dolophina says that as a family working on the estate they were not given any money, apart from the food, soap and several other items they had obtained from the estate authorities on credit, which they were expected to pay back later.

"Together, we have since then been working for various estates in Rumphi, Salima, Ntchisi and Dedza besides here in Kasungu," she says. "But the situation has not improved for my family. We have not earned anything beyond K2, 000 per year even with my current employer who I have been with for the past 10 years."

She adds, "We have nothing to live on. There is no food in the house, our children have no clothes and often go on an empty stomach."

She says her children are not allowed to go to school and she has been making all her seven children work in the garden since the owners claim that they employ the whole family.

http://www.streetnewsservice.org/news/2012/october/feed-353/exploitation-of-malawi%E2%80%99s-tobacco-workers-could-be-avoided.aspx

And this is no different in any other part of Africa. The crops may be different but the system is the same and this is EXACTLY why Africans do not own the land they live on. Because the governments work for foreigners and their former masters to make sure the land ONLY is used to benefit and enrich others and NOT Africans.

In West Africa it is cocoa. In East Africa it is food crops, tea and flowers, in South Central Africa it is coffee and rubber and so forth....

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Brada-Anansi
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Doug If there is failure then the failure is of African institutions and government and not of individual Africans,maybe they should pool these individuals for their expertise for they are no joke,they know how to drive a hard bargain and get desired results they are not dizzy over some one time pay out.
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Firewall
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Edited-
For good news and update stuff correct stuff SEE LINKS I POSTED.

It DOES NOT MATTER HOW MANY POSTIVE THREADS or post about africa these guys just ignored and jump on bad news and outdated and incorrect news all time about africa.


That's for links/and post above i posted.


I did not read lamin or doug post and anything i did read was very little because i could not take it,because i know it will be bad and incorrect info,but mena7, africurious , Son of Ra , zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova and Brada-Anansi have much more balanced views,and that's all i am asking when it come to modern africa.

The problem lamin and doug have is that they always see the glass half empty and never half full.I COULD NVER BE AROUND FOLKS LIKE THAT IN REAL LIFE.
They never have hope for the future of blacks,and that' the wrong way to see you future.

WHITES AND ASIANS ON AVERAGE DON'T THINK THAT WAY,AND MANY AFRICANS FROM AFRICA DO NOT THINK THAT WAY,TRUST ME.


Is there enough foolishness going on there?of course there is,but you see that worldwide,and for the past decade africa has been getting their act together a bit more because the masses demand from their leaders.


Normal folks or other are doing thier part has well,so focus should be on them too.

One of the reasons the west id not going like thye were before because africa is rising and making more of thier own things and trading more with asia and south america and within africa more so.

Africa is benefits more from china then china then benefits from africa now.I READ africa had a trade surplus with china.
Africans are building up their infrastructure too not just china HELPING.

China is helping,but went it comeS to certain african countries africans are doing it themselves more so then we think,like nigeria,south africa,ghana,kenya,senegal,zimbabwe etc..
China is not even in south africa building up infrastructure,it's the south africans themselves,both black and white,mostly black.

South africa is investing in others of africa has well,and that's building up africa too,not just china.

Nigeria is investing in it's region more and more and in southern africa and other parts of the africa and the world,and so is south africa investing in it's own region and the world and other parts of africa.

Look it up.
Other nations in africa are doing the same.
The world is slowly heading to a type 1 civilization,like it or not.

Maybe one day it will get to the level of what you see in star trek or close to it in certain ways,and it's heading that way now.

Folks should check out son of ra links TOO,I DID.


quote-
Son of Ra


Portuguese people are even moving to Angola in waves due to Portugals bad economy
.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-kSt-5ip94&feature=player_embedded


Also:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0UMb4F8tSE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4N0K6J20Tuo

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Doug M
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quote:
Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
Doug If there is failure then the failure is of African institutions and government and not of individual Africans,maybe they should pool these individuals for their expertise for they are no joke,they know how to drive a hard bargain and get desired results they are not dizzy over some one time pay out.

The point is that white folks and foreigners are still exploiting the majority of Africans and causing the majority of the suffering.

And that this will ONLY stop when Africans stand up and stop it. And until that happens there will be no serious economic progress in Africa, no matter how many individual Africans throw in their lot with the foreign exploiters(which is basically what you are talking about). There is no point in even debating that fact.

Foreign exploitation is foreign exploitation. Why are some black folks so scared to simply call it like it is? Black folks are soooooo damn desperate to pretend to be doing better than they really are that they will go for anything even if it is a complete mirage and illusion.

For example this bit:
quote:

Portuguese people are even moving to Angola in waves due to Portugals bad economy

How on earth is that a GOOD thing, especially when most Angolans are flat broke and don't have good jobs? So letting the former colonial master send their people to Angola to get the best high paying jobs while the Angolans stay broke is a good thing? Seriously. That is what I mean by brain dead black folks.....

Don't forget it was the Portuguese who transported the MAJORITY of African slaves to the Americas. And that the Portuguese are still racists and subjugating those former slaves in Brazil...... But somehow boneheads want to ignore that. And don't forget they are still subjugating their former slaves in Angola as well. Who do you think own and control the economy of Angola? Duh.

Black folks have simply decided to wait for SOMEBODY ELSE to build a civilization and wealthy society FOR THEM instead of doing it THEMSELVES. Even as the history of the last 500 years shows that NOBODY is going to Africa to build a gosh darn thing for Africans.... yet some clowns are determined to push this nonsense.

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Firewall
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For the facts and truth,read my post again folks.

Doug and lamin do not know what they are talking about when it comes to modern africa.Their info/view is outdated or incorrect or both.

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Firewall
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quote:
Originally posted by africurious:
Btw, kudos to Firewall for posting the excellent info he did. Africa indeed has been socioeconomically improving for a while now, despite the many thieves and incompetents in gov't. Poor defenseless africa being sucked dry by foreigners is like a religious belief for some ppl and they don't have much to support their claim, as is demonstrated by this thread.

Thanks for your support on this.
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Firewall
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quote:
Originally posted by mena7:
Firewall I agree many countries in Africa are rising.Firewall you have the data to prove it. Country like Nigeria, Ghana, Angola, Kenya, Ethiopia, Zambia, Botswana, Cameroun, Senegal, South Africa etc are industrialisings and growing their economies.Africa is a great place for investor with knowledge and connection to make money.

Yes i posted the facts and it's true.

Thanks for agreeing with me on this.

We do not agree on everything but at least your view here is on target with mine.

Like i said doug's and lamin's view of modern africa is wrong and i have it right.

Don't let doug and some others con you on the good things that are happening in africa.
African leaders etc.. have done better then they did 20 years,so improvement in leadership and with others has happen.
Has time goes on the younger folks will take over and they will be more responsible forced more so be more responsible.


We know the crap that goes there has well,but there is alot of good stuff too that's happening there.

Doug is type when the angolans defeated the portuguese he still sees that was a victory for the portuguese.

So even when the portuguese lose the war the portuguese to him were still in control of the land etc...

To him modern day african victories are still defeats and africans today had no victories.

Don't you see the insane logic?to him modern africans are losers and will always be losers.

That is a mental ill person who thinks that way and i read his post over time to come to that view.

He is to stuck in the past and he needs to realized that africans or blacks of today do have real victories.


Doug etc.. always post the bad stuff and i feel i am force the post good stuff all time because of incorrect view/info he has and some others.

I am a postive person when it comes to the future of africans anyway,so mostly i post good news anyway.

I do not POST THE BAD STUFF that much,so i do not do the western media and stormfront's dirty work.

If i post bad stuff once in awhile it's correct stuff depending on the period i am focusing on.


I said i am done with this thread,but if i come back from time to time it's not to read doug's or lamin's view on modern africa,that' for sure.

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Son of Ra
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The Portuguese do not control the Angolan economy at all...Its the Chinese who are mostly building up the economy.
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the lioness,
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Subsistence farming has been a way of life for thousands of years.

It is only something to look down and seen as pathetic if the expectation is that it is normal for people to have refrigerators, cars, planes electricity, cell phones.

In order to do that you need trade and international markets. And the byproduct is spoiling the environment

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africurious
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quote:
Originally posted by Firewall:
It DOES NOT MATTER HOW MANY POSTIVE THREADS or post about africa these guys just ignored and jump on bad news and outdated and incorrect news all time about africa.


I did not read lamin or doug post and anything i did read was very little because i could not take it,because i know it will be bad and incorrect info,but mena7, africurious , Son of Ra , zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova and Brada-Anansi have much more balanced views,and that's all i am asking when it come to modern africa.

The problem lamin and doug have is that they always see the glass half empty and never half full.I COULD NVER BE AROUND FOLKS LIKE THAT IN REAL LIFE.
They never have hope for the future of blacks,and that' the wrong way to see you future.

I wouldn't say it's that folks like doug and lamin necessarily lack hope on the future of africa but they do not follow it's economics in depth, aside from maybe reading a few newspaper articles. That will not do. One has to read business/economic newspapers (such as the Economist) at a minimum and business/economic journals and academic sources to get a good idea of economic reality. Even the venerable NY Times is often inadequate in terms of economics. My academic background is business so I have a greater understanding of economics than most on this forum and it's very easy to tell when someone doesn't know much about economics. If you look at the posts of folks like doug on this forum it's just eye-catching instances of negative snapshots while what you posted are actually a comprehensive assessments of the overall economic situation in africa. Those who are open to knowlegde instead of victimhood will gain from what you've posted.

quote:
Africa is benefits more from china then china then benefits from africa now.I READ africa had a trade surplus with china.
Africans are building up their infrastructure too not just china HELPING.

I have to disagree with you here. Having a trade surplus with a country doesn't automatically mean you gain more from them than they from you. This is especially so in africa's case with china because the reason for the surplus is that china's economy is bigger than africa's and is growing at much faster rate which requires them to buy vast quantities of raw materials from africa, while africa's economy is smaller and growing less rapid so they have less $s to buy chinese goods as well as chinese goods have more competition than africa's commodities do. I have not read enough on the topic to say whether one is gaining more than the other but I do know that at least they are both gaining.

quote:

quote-
Son of Ra


Portuguese people are even moving to Angola in waves due to Portugals bad economy

And I must strongly disagree with the implication of the quote above. That quote from Son of Ra is misguided. The portugese are going to angola because they can get jobs there, yes, but that is because angolans themselves are not filling these jobs because the population doesn't have enough educated and skilled ppl to fill the positions (which is the fault of the gov't and the long civil war). The ppl in angola who are getting rich now are those in gov't/ connected to gov't officials and foreigners who come to do high paying skilled jobs or start businesses that serve foreign expats in angola. The avg angolan would love to move to portugal (or elsewhere in euro) so they can get better jobs to support their fam.
I am hoping that the angolan gov't really invests in education and infrastructure and not let the angolan masses remain impoverished like in equatorial guinea.

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the lioness,
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lamin you should have a zarahan-like graphic of your scandinavian influenced socialist program for Africa instead of crying all the time. You need to put together a 10 or 20 point program and distribute it.
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lamin
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quote:
Doug and lamin do not know what they are talking about when it comes to modern africa.Their info/view is outdated or incorrect or both.
I am just talking facts. I asked Firewall whether he has ever been to Africa. Just an innocent question.

I live in Africa and I have visited a number of coutries. I see what's going on. Just not good at all.

I referred people to the Human Development Index to get a truer picture of the African landscape but people ignore the facts there and wax starry-eyed about the BS coming from Western magazines like Time and The Economist.

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the lioness,
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lamin are you a white or mulatto African? Mike said....
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IronLion
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quote:
Originally posted by Firewall:
.....I said i am done with this thread,but if i come back from time to time it's not to read doug's or lamin's view on modern africa,that' for sure.

Lamin is an old disgruntled Russian educated African mole-rat who believes we won't get to heaven until we Africans start kissing the butts of Lenin and Trostsky...
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Firewall
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quote:
Originally posted by africurious:
quote:
Originally posted by Firewall:
It DOES NOT MATTER HOW MANY POSTIVE THREADS or post about africa these guys just ignored and jump on bad news and outdated and incorrect news all time about africa.


I did not read lamin or doug post and anything i did read was very little because i could not take it,because i know it will be bad and incorrect info,but mena7, africurious , Son of Ra , zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova and Brada-Anansi have much more balanced views,and that's all i am asking when it come to modern africa.

The problem lamin and doug have is that they always see the glass half empty and never half full.I COULD NVER BE AROUND FOLKS LIKE THAT IN REAL LIFE.
They never have hope for the future of blacks,and that' the wrong way to see you future.

I wouldn't say it's that folks like doug and lamin necessarily lack hope on the future of africa but they do not follow it's economics in depth, aside from maybe reading a few newspaper articles. That will not do. One has to read business/economic newspapers (such as the Economist) at a minimum and business/economic journals and academic sources to get a good idea of economic reality. Even the venerable NY Times is often inadequate in terms of economics. My academic background is business so I have a greater understanding of economics than most on this forum and it's very easy to tell when someone doesn't know much about economics. If you look at the posts of folks like doug on this forum it's just eye-catching instances of negative snapshots while what you posted are actually a comprehensive assessments of the overall economic situation in africa. Those who are open to knowlegde instead of victimhood will gain from what you've posted.

quote:
Africa is benefits more from china then china then benefits from africa now.I READ africa had a trade surplus with china.
Africans are building up their infrastructure too not just china HELPING.

I have to disagree with you here. Having a trade surplus with a country doesn't automatically mean you gain more from them than they from you. This is especially so in africa's case with china because the reason for the surplus is that china's economy is bigger than africa's and is growing at much faster rate which requires them to buy vast quantities of raw materials from africa, while africa's economy is smaller and growing less rapid so they have less $s to buy chinese goods as well as chinese goods have more competition than africa's commodities do. I have not read enough on the topic to say whether one is gaining more than the other but I do know that at least they are both gaining.

quote:

quote-
Son of Ra


Portuguese people are even moving to Angola in waves due to Portugals bad economy

And I must strongly disagree with the implication of the quote above. That quote from Son of Ra is misguided. The portugese are going to angola because they can get jobs there, yes, but that is because angolans themselves are not filling these jobs because the population doesn't have enough educated and skilled ppl to fill the positions (which is the fault of the gov't and the long civil war). The ppl in angola who are getting rich now are those in gov't/ connected to gov't officials and foreigners who come to do high paying skilled jobs or start businesses that serve foreign expats in angola. The avg angolan would love to move to portugal (or elsewhere in euro) so they can get better jobs to support their fam.
I am hoping that the angolan gov't really invests in education and infrastructure and not let the angolan masses remain impoverished like in equatorial guinea.

Good points.
Equatorial guinea should have done a better job quicker then any african nation in dealing with poverty because of it's wealth.
Hopefully in 5 years things will improve greatly there.

I know at least with help of chinese etc..that equatorial guinea are building up infrastructure in that nation,but at the same time they need to focus more on poverty has well.

I know angola has done a better job at it then equatorial guinea.

Angola is building up infrastructure too but just doing a better job quickly with poverty then equatorial guinea.

I read the poverty rate for angola now is about 45% maybe 40% now,so things are happening more quickly dealing with issue front.

Poverty is still high but at least it's below 50% and not 75% like it was about 10 years ago or so.

Of course i still say doug and lamin ignores info because i remember some good stuff was posted before and they chose to twist it and say it's not true,so i think it does not matter were the source is.

They are just in the negative news business only with modern blacks,and nothing postive and alot of their info is mixed with some times half truths,almost half truths and at times all lies.

They have very little of the facts,but most of the time thier info is outdated or incorrect or both.

I know in 5 years africa will look different then now just like it looks different now then 20 or 10 years ago.

Here something about poverty in angola in recent times.
Watch them twist it,and say it's not true.

Instead of saying that's good news,they will twist it AND SOME HOW TURN IT INTO STILL BAD NEWS.

Watch.


Now some good news from angola.

Angola Achieves Millennium Development Goals By Reducing Mal Nutrition
Luanda — Angola reached in 2012 the Millennium Development Goal set for 2015, by reducing at more than 50 per cent of mal-nutrition case in the period between 1990 and 2012.
This was said on Tuesday by FAO official, Mamadou Diallo, when speaking at the opening act of a workshop dubbed "Urban and peri-urban vegetable plotting to reduce poverty and malnutrition in Angola".

On the occasion, Mamadou Diallo acknowledges that the Angolan government has been working hard and as result the country has achieved various social, economic and environmental progresses over the last years.
"FAO is proud of accompanying Angola in this battle and is convinced that this African country will reach in a sustainable way all the Millennium Development Goals", he said.

http://allafrica.com/stories/201304030161.html
____________________


Angola : Poverty level nearly halved in a decade


On Wednesday 20 October the UN's Resident Coordinator in Angola, Koen Vanormelingen, said that poverty levels in Angola have dropped from 63% percent in 2002 to 38% in 2009, and noted other advances in living standards.


Among the other advances in Millennium Development Goals (MDGs) highlighted by Vanormelingen are increased primary schooling and the expansion of a national health network. In a previous report in June the UN gave some other impressive figures: malnutrition dropped from 35% in 2002 to 23% in 2010, school enrolment has surged to 76%, gender parity is close to being achieved in schools, with 98 girls for every 100 boys (although low pass-through rates mean that education is still a priority), infant mortality is down nearly 20% and the proportion of child deaths from malaria has fallen. The UN sees progress on five (of eight) MDGs: malnutrition, education, gender balance, child survival and malaria, and HIV/AIDS.


Areas that still require attention are maternal mortality at birth, which is still high owing to a lack of midwives, and water and sanitation: only 42% of the population has access to safe drinking water and 60% to basic sanitation.

The primary driver of progress in all these areas is Angola's oil-driven economic growth, and the foreign investment that goes with it. This provides a tax base for government to honour its exemplary financial commitment: 30% of the national budget goes to social programmes.

Vanormelingen did warn that economic and social disparities between the richest and the poorest in Angola could place the gains made at risk, and said that reducing these disparities was the goal of co-operation programmes between the UN and the Angolan government.


http://www.lesafriques.com/en/intern...articleid=0330

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lamin
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quote:
lamin you should have a zarahan-like graphic of your scandinavian influenced socialist program for Africa instead of crying all the time. You need to put together a 10 or 20 point program and distribute it.
Don't see how stating the facts is "crying all the time".

On "Scandinavian Socialist Programme for Africa"

Just a little anecdote would clear your confused brain. A friend(African) who is a resident of Norway a naturalised U.S. citizen but then based in Africa was having serious problems with his knees--from playing basketball--had to have an operation. Guess where he chose to get it done for free? Norway,of course. Excellent care with serious-minded follow-ups.

That aspect of socialism kinda makes sense doesn't it?

Think of it this way: suppose you were about to be born but you had no idea what you would born as--gender, race, wealth, natural gifts, illnesses, etc., what kind of society would you wish to be born into? A socialist one like Norway or a neoliberal one like the U.S.?

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Firewall
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quote:
Originally posted by IronLion:
quote:
Originally posted by Firewall:
.....I said i am done with this thread,but if i come back from time to time it's not to read doug's or lamin's view on modern africa,that' for sure.

Lamin is an old disgruntled Russian educated African mole-rat who believes we won't get to heaven until we Africans start kissing the butts of Lenin and Trostsky...
Good point.
Believe me,when it comes early africa like ancient times etc.. they have alot and say alot of good info and thier views tend to be postive alot times dealing with early times what i read from them so far.

It's modern africa they lose me on and they have outdated and incorrect info .

I just wish they stick to early history only in these threads.

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lamin
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LOL. Really, you made my day with that quote. Never been to Russia, though I would like to visit.

Lenin? A great intellect, so too Trotsky.

Lenin--pushed Russia from a backward despotic feudal state[ the serfs were freed in 1865] to a world power feared by the whole West--sputnik, great scientists, great chess players, one of the 2 so-called super-powers. Lenin--also admired by Mao--the great helmsman of China.

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by lamin:
quote:
lamin you should have a zarahan-like graphic of your scandinavian influenced socialist program for Africa instead of crying all the time. You need to put together a 10 or 20 point program and distribute it.
Don't see how stating the facts is "crying all the time".

On "Scandinavian Socialist Programme for Africa"

Just a little anecdote would clear your confused brain. A friend(African) who is a resident of Norway a naturalised U.S. citizen but then based in Africa was having serious problems with his knees--from playing basketball--had to have an operation. Guess where he chose to get it done for free? Norway,of course. Excellent care with serious-minded follow-ups.

That aspect of socialism kinda makes sense doesn't it?

Think of it this way: suppose you were about to be born but you had no idea what you would born as--gender, race, wealth, natural gifts, illnesses, etc., what kind of society would you wish to be born into? A socialist one like Norway or a neoliberal one like the U.S.?

draw up a plan and circulate, it's nation time

Also what about Leopold Senghor
and Julius Nyerere's Ujamaa

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lamin
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Firewall,
I just call things as I see them. Thas-all.

I asked whether you are in Africa, been to Africa, or otherwise. I ask this because merely relying on Time magazine, the Economist for news on Africa is just blatantly naive. If you live in Africa or have spent time there you will get a better feel for the situation.

Silly ad hominems just won't help.

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Firewall
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I WILL REPLY JUST THIS ONE time to your post,because i said i will ignore you and for the moment i will break MY OWN rule.

It does not matter if i been to africa or not.Maybe have maybe i have not,but i will not let you pigeon hole me either way.

There SOME folks in nigeria that do not what going on in thier country.

There folks living in europe and america that do NOT know what going in thier own countries.

Many folks from all over the world that have gone to africa both black and white see postive
changes.

Just because someone lives in africa does not mean i have to take thier word for either.


Dennis brutus was upset that the Anc did not stay commie,so HE told lies saying that blacks were better off under white rule and there was no progress in south africa on a radio show a few years ago and the host let him get away with that non-sense.


He sounds like you.

There are many south africans i have spoken to and they say major and good progress has taken place and more will come,and videos and shows have mention this too,but you ignore and dismiss that.


Let's put it this way,i never been to south africa but plan to go there maybe live and help our brothers and sisters speed the progress.

There are other african nations i might want to live in,but south africa is my first choice for the moment.

AT LEAST I PLAN ON DOING SOMETHING THERE INSTEAD OF TALK.

Many folks who went to south africa,nigeria,ghana etc.. have seen postive changes in the past 20 years and if you have not seen postive changes in africa has awhole then you are living under a rock in africa or just ignoring the changes around you .


There folks who talk how postive they had it over there and seen the changes and there are folks who say they will never return, of course depending on thier experience.

There folks who live there that see postive changes,and i rather take thier word for it than yours.

Serious travelers and writers say there is more good news than bad,you just want to paint all of modern africa has only bad,and that should not be allowed.

Like i said your point of view is wrong,outdated and incorrect.

I wish when it comes to this issue i wish there was a ignore button like other forums.

Now back to ignoring you.
BYE.

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lamin
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Incredibly naive and romantic. Oh well.
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mena7
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Corruption doesnt keep a country from developing their economy.There is corruption in Russia, Brazil,India and Mexico but those countries economies are growing.Corruption will not keep many African countries from developing and growing their economies.The Chinese trade and investment in Africa is a great help to African development.

--------------------
mena

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Doug M
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quote:
Originally posted by mena7:
Corruption doesnt keep a country from developing their economy.There is corruption in Russia, Brazil,India and Mexico but those countries economies are growing.Corruption will not keep many African countries from developing and growing their economies.The Chinese trade and investment in Africa is a great help to African development.

You mean like the empty cities in Angola built by the Chinese with Chinese labor?

Sure they are GREAT!!! not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8HyDGCNxpo

BTW check this entertainment on Angolan TV. Look familiar?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPRRIWsWgXQ

Anyway, if seeing foreigners going to Africa to get rich while Africans starve is your standard of progress, then the last 400 years have been nothing but progress.....

I guess the following story about white South Africans going back to South Africa is the best things since sliced bread.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZffRqLz2K1A

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the lioness,
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The Chinese are great polluters
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anguishofbeing
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Doug, the eternal optimist. LOL
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Djehuti
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Doug is right. The Chinese are no different from other foreign firms and 'investors' except maybe they are smarter. Sure the Chinese actually do certain favors in aiding African countries in say building infrastructure, but with a price. Already the Chinese markets are flooding in countries like Kenya and Angola and are only hurting the local markets of the natives. They are perhaps worse than Walmart.
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lamin
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quote:
Already the Chinese markets are flooding in countries like Kenya and Angola and are only hurting the local markets of the natives. They are perhaps worse than Walmart.
The Chinese are not only exporting cheap and often low quality goods into Africa--African governments can easily put tarifs and such commodities and implement import substitution strategies. It's not that difficult to manufacture lamps, fans, torchlights, tyres, etc. Just adopt the German industrial policy of the 19th century
of Friedrich List[called "autarky"] and replace the imports mentioned above--but also exporting labour.

In places like Dakar Senegal, the Chinese are competing with the Lebanese for control of the local retail market. The locals[ note I don't use the racist colonial term "natives"] are displaced and end up being used by the Chinese as street sellers for some of the goods in the Chinese shops. Governments can stop that kind of thing but they have bought into neoliberal "globalistion" which ruins local markets while allowing relatively free entry for Chinese and Indian retail labour.

The solution is that there should be regional protected markets and common industrial and manufacturing strategies.

On the ground industrial parks should be set up so that the roads be rid of those rickety side-of-road structures set up by local retailers. Such structures are an eye-sore and should be demolished and the owners moved to industrial parks.

Single and strong currencies should be adopted and proper cooperative banks also be set up--not the loan-sharkers that cater only to expatriate and non-African businesses.

To all those who have no idea what is going on and get their information from such anti-African and patronising media like the Economist, Newsweek, Time, BBC, etc. then just consult the hard and more meaningful data of the Human Development Index, 2012, 2013.

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Firewall
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quote-
On the one hand, he proclaimed: “Today we are witnessing a unique convergence of potentially positive developments in the fight against corruption – one that has not existed since the end of the Cold War”. Yet at the same time he also emphasised that we are still facing “the continuing reality of systemised corruption”.

Indeed corruption is a major problem which continues to undermine institutions, economies and societies – not least in Africa. In TI’s Corruption Perceptions Index 2012, 90% of African countries scored below 50, (0 being “highly corrupt”, and 100 representing a lack of corruption) and Somalia was deemed to be the worst offending African country with a score of just 8, joint with Afghanistan and North Korea.

But despite the picture sometimes painted, corruption is by no means a uniquely African phenomenon. In fact, taking a closer look at corruption and expanding our understanding to beyond just bribes and kickbacks enables us to see that corruption exists across the world and that even in ‘African’ corruption, developed countries are deeply implicated.

A global phenomenon
Firstly, a closer look at TI’s index shows that 70% of all countries scored less than 50 out of 100, with a global average of just 43. Corruption is a problem with which most of the world is still struggling, developed countries included.

In a telling case in 2008, for example, German multinational Siemens was found to have had a slush fund totalling more than €1.3 billion ($1.7 billion) to help win overseas contracts from 2001 to 2007. The company was investigated for bribe-paying, corruption and falsifying corporate books and, after much plea bargaining and negotiating, was fined a record $800 million.

to read more

http://thinkafricapress.com/economy/causing-corruption-impact-developed-nations-corruption-africa

__________________________________________________

Botswana less corrupt, Nigeria worst in Africa
afrol News, 20 October - In the annual corruption index, presented today by Transparency International (TI), Botswana again was named Africa's by far less corrupt country. Nigeria was found at the bottom end, close after Chad, Côte d'Ivoire, Congo Kinshasa, Angola, Kenya and Cameroon. The world's "cleanest" country was found to be Finland, while the most corrupt was Haiti.

- Corruption in large-scale public projects is a daunting obstacle to sustainable development, and results in a major loss of public funds needed for education, healthcare and poverty alleviation, both in developed and developing countries, said TI Chairman Peter Eigen today at the launch of the organisation's corruption perceptions index 2004.

A total of 146 countries had been ranked and corruption was found to be "rampant in 60 countries." The investigation also found that "most oil-producing nations are prone to high corruption." TI estimates that the amount lost due to bribery in government procurement is at least US$ 400 billion per year worldwide.

Sixty countries scored less than 3 out of 10, indicating what TI called "rampant corruption." Corruption is perceived to be most acute in Bangladesh, Haiti, Nigeria, Chad, Myanmar, Azerbaijan and Paraguay, all of which have a score of less than 2. Also the oil-rich countries Angola, Azerbaijan, Chad, Ecuador, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Kazakhstan, Libya, Nigeria, Russia, Sudan, Venezuela and Yemen all had "extremely low scores."

Countries with a score of higher than 9, with very low levels of perceived corruption, are predominantly rich countries, namely Finland, New Zealand, Denmark, Iceland, Singapore, Sweden and Switzerland. "But the poorest countries, most of which are in the bottom half of the index, are in greatest need of support in fighting corruption," said Eigen.

In Africa, there had been considerable movement on the list compared to last year's index. An increase in perceived corruption could be observed for Mauritius and Senegal, TI said. On the other hand, a fall in corruption was perceived in Botswana, The Gambia, Tanzania and Uganda.

Outstanding in Africa, Botswana was given a score of 6.0 out of 10, thus ranking number 31 worldwide, this year even counting in a significantly improved overall score and ranking. "Botswana's score also places it above ten of the member states of the European Union included in the survey," as the country's presidential spokesman, Jeff Ramsay, proudly noted in a statement today.

Only three more African countries are found on TI's top-50 list of less corrupt states. Tunisia scores 5.0 points and is Africa's second less corrupt country, according to TI. Third comes South Africa (4.6) and forth Seychelles (4.4). Mauritius and Namibia follow on a shared 54th place on the index, with 4.1 out of 10 points.

At the bottom end of the scale, Haiti and Bangladesh only scored 1.5 out of 10 points, with Nigeria marginally at 1.6 point. Nigeria has been termed one of the world's most corrupt countries by TI's index for years, prompting protests by the Abuja government. According to Nigerian authorities, the TI index does not recognise the alleged large improvements made by the post-1999 civilian government in fighting corruption.

Almost as badly ranked as Nigeria, oil-producing Chad scored 1.7 point, while Angola, Côte d'Ivoire and Congo Kinshasa scored 2.0 points. Also Kenya and Cameroon, given 2.1 points in the index, have been long-time dwellers at the bottom of TI's corruption list. Kenya has yet to move upwards on the list despite an active programme by the new Nairobi government to fight the recognised rampant corruption in the country.


quote:
Originally posted by mena7:
Corruption doesnt keep a country from developing their economy.There is corruption in Russia, Brazil,India and Mexico but those countries economies are growing.Corruption will not keep many African countries from developing and growing their economies.The Chinese trade and investment in Africa is a great help to African development.

I posted info that has good news above with the bad,and alot of the info i posted before had good news with bad news,if folks read them carefully.

The news about africa was not all just good news.

The news however i posted tend to have more good news then bad,so i don't ignore the bad,just the outdated or incorrect info i dismiss and say the info is wrong and not correct.

So the info i have posted before is correct and right.

I know what is basically going in the world and Mena7 you have some idea.Your above comment is correct.

Human Development Index in africa haswhole has improve by the way since the 1980's and 1990's.
There has been a steady improvement,overall not hasfast has we like but if you compare overall standards of living 20 years and now,africa has made progress.

That bit of info should not be ignored.
Africans are wealthier today then they were 10 years ago.

Progress has taken place and that info should not be dismissed.


Corruption is less now in africa then before,it's that folks are ingnoring that part.That's one reason africa is doing better now then 30-20 years or 15 years.The info you and i have gave above is correct,so you keep on keeping on bro.

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Firewall
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quote-
Corruption is less now in africa then before,it's that certain folks are dismissing or ignoring that part,and that's not right or correct.
Another lie that has catch on,is that african do not control their lan and wealth.
Yes they do.Many nations in africa are not in control completely of thier wealth or resources but they are mostly in control.

That is not that much different that anywhere else in fact.

If africans wanted complete control nothing is really stopping them,so there is a reason for this and it has been explained before,so thier is no reason to beat a dead horse.

Move on and live your life because the africans are.

Some folks do not like the answers,but that's thier problem.


Some more good news.
I got this from another forum and check out some of the replies below.

UNITED STATES special envoy Mr Andrew Young has called for forgiveness and the removal of sanctions on Zimbabwe to ensure the animosity of the past decade ends amicably. Mr Young - who was speaking at a policy dialogue forum organised

by the Southern African Political Economy Series on Tuesday in the wake of his meeting with President Mugabe where he conveyed a message of reconciliation from President Barack Obama -- said his visit had been sanctioned by the US Congress and the White House.

"It took a decision-making process in the Congress and in the White House for me to come here.

"The decision for me to come here was made by the Secretary of State (John Kerry) and approved by the President of the United States."

Mr Young was accompanied by US Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for African Affairs Mr Reuben Brigety.

Analysts say the US overtures, that come in the wake of similar overtures from Britain, the EU and the Commercial Farmers' Union, confirmed that Washington had lost confidence in MDC-T's ability to effect regime change and had bought into the various surveys pointing to a Zanu-PF victory in the forthcoming elections.

The US administration's reservations with the MDC-T leadership were exposed in a diplomatic cable dated July 13 2007 which was leaked by whistleblower website WikiLeaks in which the then ambassador to Zimbabwe, Mr Christopher Dell, laid into MDC-T and its leader Mr Morgan Tsvangirai as greenhorns.

"Zimbabwe's opposition is far from ideal and I leave convinced that had we had different partners, we could have achieved more already. But you have to play the hand you're dealt.

"With that in mind, the current leadership has little executive experience and will require massive hand-holding and assistance should they ever come to power," Dell said.

Turning to Mr Tsvangirai, Mr Dell said "Tsvangirai is also a flawed figure, not readily open to advice, indecisive and with questionable judgment in selecting those around him.

"He is the indispensable element for opposition success, but possibly an albatross around their necks once in power. In short, he is a kind of Lech Walesa character: Zimbabwe needs him, but should not rely on his executive abilities to lead the country's recovery......"

[QUOTE=TshabalalaGH;102428398]Continue reading here: http://allafrica.com/stories/201304181236.html

Well that was a shift lol[/QUOTE]


[QUOTE=BUTEMBO21;102428880]Useless sanctions from a hypocrite. Zimbabwean people did nothing wrong against the US to deserve the sanctions.[/QUOTE]


[QUOTE=Tbite;102429636]I think another reason why they are saying this, is that in spite of all the sanctions the Zimbabwean economy still made progress in many areas.


 -

I think that what Mugabe did however was wrong. We had a similar situation in Nigeria - it wasn't whites vs blacks....it was Nigerians vs Nigerians and we handled it, almost as rigorously as Mugabe handled the Zimbabwean situation.

However, even though I can understand the reasoning behind the situation in Zimbabwe and the situation in Nigeria. You cannot bring about equitable distribution of resources or education or employment, forcefully.

You have to do it systematically. I think land is a little bit more tricky than education, because land becomes monopolized and protected, but land is not an isolated part of the economy.

If you had empowered the downtrodden (black people), they would have acquired land anyway. So I don't think that Mugabe had to do things physically, he could have done things a budgetary manner.

When the Australian government devotes a certain amount of money to certain people - they simply justify it.

If Mugabe had just said - hey look, we are going to concentrate all of our attention on those that need it, that would have been justifiable. But when you begin to do something physically, that is hard to justify.[/QUOTE]

To read more replies.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1615414

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lamin
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quote:
lamin are you a white or mulatto African? Mike said
LOL. What a dumb question. And a very racist one too. Because I am very smart--no big deal. All my family and friends know this--you in your racist mind have to assume that I am kind of confounded zebra or some kind of pink face degenerate.

By the way, there are no white Africans. I have said that before--but it just escapes you confused head.

And what are you? But I know that you are anything but African.

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IronLion
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quote:
Originally posted by lamin:
quote:
lamin are you a white or mulatto African? Mike said
LOL. What a dumb question. And a very racist one too. Because I am very smart--no big deal. All my family and friends know this--....
Smart Alec

If you were sharp you would have known that this boy below was a sell out Italian Mafiosos and not someone worth your tears or the tears of any Melaneo.

No Muurs just two Italian brother mafiosos:

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lamin
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What does this have to do with Gaddafi? I judge people by their actions. Give me Gaddafi any day before Western hand-tools like Mobutu or Ian Khama. He paid most of the AU budget for starters. Libya was number one in Africa on the Human Development Index. What more?
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mena7
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Kaddafi bought a $500 million communication satellite for the African country that saved them $500 million in annual fee to European Phone company.That was Africa first communication satellite .Kadafi let 2 millions black African work in his country.Kadafi set up $30 billion aside to open an African bank to compete with the IMF and World Bank.The IMF manipulate Africa with a small budget of $40 billion.Kadafi had plan to create a gold dinar currency to compete with international fiat money.Those are the reason the EU destroyed kadafi.The European economy depend on Africa to survive.(Africamaat).

Kadafi gave the Libyan free everything like food, housing, education,healthcare, land, job etc.

Kadafi wasnt perfect he was human.his mistake was probably he killed, tortured opponents.He suported terrorist and guerilla groups.He didnt allow a strong business class but Libya was a capitalist country with many private businessman.

Unlike Hugo Chavez and Hosni Mubarack Kadafi failed to learned how to use the democratic system of the west and get elected every 10 years.

Talking of H Mubarack Egypt of the muslim Bro is facing bankruptcy and starvation.There is not enough money to buy bread and oil for the 100 million Egyptians.Qatar and Libya had to bail out Egypt for a few months.Arab spring my ss.Experience tell me I prefer the stability, security and wealth of a dictator/king then the anarchy, incompetence and corruption of a so call democraty aka mob rule.

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by lamin:
quote:
lamin are you a white or mulatto African? Mike said
LOL. What a dumb question. And a very racist one too. Because I am very smart--no big deal. All my family and friends know this--you in your racist mind have to assume that I am kind of confounded zebra or some kind of pink face degenerate.

By the way, there are no white Africans. I have said that before--but it just escapes you confused head.

And what are you? But I know that you are anything but African.

what's racist about asking if you're white? Mike said you were albino. Albinos probably go back to the beginning. I'm checking to see if you will confirm it
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IronLion
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Mena7

Gadhafi was a half Italian bastard breed who overthrew the Black monarchy of Libya, the Sanusi line of Black Kings and Sages, and destroyed African development for 40 years of his rule.

He introduced Arabism in Africa.

He sponsored every Muslim terrorist in West Africa.

he brought in Al Qaeda into Africa through his mis-conceived Arab nationalism.

He made unjust wars in Sierra Leone killing millions of Africans.

He used African labour as cheap labour in Libya whilst discriminating against them.

He built many prisons and jails for Black African migrants seeking to enter Europe. He used them as bargaining chips to get more goodies from his European friends.

He saw Black Africans at best as his inferior, fit for the crumbs that fall off his table.

The land of Libya is Black land. The wealth is Black wealth.

Gadhafi enriched all his Arab friends, his Italian cousins, and his French neighbours.

He simply hired Africans as mecenaries for his idiotic military, and used them as hewers of wood and carriers of water in Libya.

How many railroads did he build in Africa?

How many basic industries did he encourage their establishment?

How many power companies did he build in Africa?

How many new home developments did he initiate in Africa?

He did build the European industries with African money. He invested in Ferari company, he bought a foot club in Italy and France, he bought many castles in Switzerland for his spoilt children, and he established the Libya fund with close a Trillion Dollars of Black Libyan money, and handed it over to the Rothschild of Europe.

When I hear you guys go on about Gadhafi, you need to be awakened!

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lamin
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quote:
what's racist about asking if you're white? Mike said you were albino. Albinos probably go back to the beginning. I'm checking to see if you will confirm it
.

Again, since when you are a spokesman/woman[?] for Mike? Mike is joker, a comic-relief fantasist; a hallucinating long-term refugee holed up somewhere in the bastion of latter-day slavery and human degradation.

"Albinos probably go back to the beginning"--what does that mean? LOL.

Again, you are racist for posing such a stupid question--hiding behind some fantasist.

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Ish Gebor
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quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
While lyinass trolls talk about country music songs, I have a far more pressing and interesting issue to address.

I recently saw an episode of the documentary series Global Voices, entitled 'Stealing Africa' which talks about the modern day colonialism on the African continent by corporations exploiting Africa's resources while leaving the natives in poverty. This fiendish system was only made possible by a government programs such as global banks and tax systems. In other words, it isn't the corporations alone but the governments that back them through their political cronies.

As one person put it, "Africa receives several billions of dollars in aid every year to alleviate poverty, yet Africa relinquishes ten times the amount in money every year in terms of resources to foreign corporations!"

It is this horrible paradox that continues to debilitate the economies of many African countries not including the political corruption or turmoils.

You can see the trailer here:

Global Voices | Stealing Africa | Trailer | WORLD

Thanks man, we all knew this already of course. But it's nice to see it documented.

It also reminded me of this. Dr.Clarke's prologue.

Pt 1/15 Dr.Clarke vs. Mary Lefkowitz-The Black Athena Debate.

Starting at 9:40 sec

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lm4pzEY9ntA

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Ish Gebor
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by lamin:
quote:
lamin are you a white or mulatto African? Mike said
LOL. What a dumb question. And a very racist one too. Because I am very smart--no big deal. All my family and friends know this--you in your racist mind have to assume that I am kind of confounded zebra or some kind of pink face degenerate.

By the way, there are no white Africans. I have said that before--but it just escapes you confused head.

And what are you? But I know that you are anything but African.

what's racist about asking if you're white? Mike said you were albino. Albinos probably go back to the beginning. I'm checking to see if you will confirm it
http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=007725

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=007486

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Doug M
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Some more on this from current events:

White folks are not scared to speak against Africans (seeing how Africans have done nothing to remove them from power, I guess they feel perfectly safe among their slaves):

quote:

Johannesburg — South Africa has demanded an explanation from Zambia on remarks its vice-president Guy Scott reportedly made about President Jacob Zuma and others.

"We shall be summoning the high commissioner of Zambia ... to seek an explanation behind the remarks and what it means in the context of our bilateral relations," international relations spokesman Clayson Monyela said on Thursday.

"South Africa has taken note of the negative remarks about South Africa...

In view of this development, the SA government has decided to take the matter up through the appropriate diplomatic channels."

The report that irked South African officials was written by The Guardian's correspondent in Lusaka.

It initially appeared on the publication's UK website on Wednesday, and was issued by the Mail & Guardian in South Africa on its website on Thursday.

Scott told The Guardian newspaper in the UK Zuma was like former apartheid leader FW de Klerk, and that South Africans were "backward".

Said Scott: "He's [Zuma] very like De Klerk. He tells us: 'you just leave Zimbabwe to me.' Excuse me, who the hell liberated you anyway, was it not us? I mean, I quite like him, he seems a rather genial character but I pity him his advisers."

Scott went on to speak about South Africans, and black citizens.

"The South Africans are very backward in terms of historical development ... I hate South Africans ... they really think they're the bees' knees and actually they've been the cause of so much trouble in this part of the world," Scott told the newspaper.

"I have a suspicion the blacks model themselves on the whites now that they're in power."

He said he disliked South Africa because it was too big and "unsubtle".

Scott noted that South Africa had more than 80 tribes and several major language groups.

http://allafrica.com/stories/201305030343.html

Just shows you how FAKE the liberation movement was and is in Africa when white folks are considered as "progressive" in African politics.......... But then again what do you expect when black people never actually removed these people by force? Maybe they actually LIKE their position in life. Which is exactly what the white racists have been saying all along.....
Case in point, note how this dirt poor African woman is holding the hand of this white woman like she is some kind of relative when anyone with a brain knows it is white people who caused this situation in the first place. But like I said, some black folks love their oppression and the white folks love to show this to the world. And in reality most black folks today are so brainless that they openly display such ignorance on a daily basis.

Worst place in South Africa to live:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=FymnBrHhoWc

Which is funny since it is only marginally better than how MOST black folks live, not only in South Africa but most of Africa. Keep in mind that the largest slums on earth are in Africa... followed by India and other parts of South Asia.
Note that there were no slums in Africa before colonization. All of these slums are the result of moving blacks off land in order to make way for huge plantations and mining operations.

 -
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Urban_population_living_in_slums.png

Speaking of India, note that the Indians in South Africa are living it up at the expense of the blacks as the lackeys of the British who brought them there (many of these particular Indians being themselves mixed breeds to begin with). Indians have long been used as convenient buffer classes in colonized countries around the world where the British gave them access to jobs, wealth and companies over the indigenous folks or African slaves in the same areas..... But yet and still most Indians still live in absolute poverty working and toiling as slaves in the same slave industrial complex that has conquered the whole planet. And note how the reporter on this is an Indian woman working for a white owned news station in Africa. Nothing has really changed at all in Africa since colonization, except a few hand picked African flunkies are getting paid to continue allowing their people to be exploited.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASGzhf4_leQ

And on a related note, the same mixed blood clowns who wanted to give all the land in Madagascar to their white Asian brethren are back at it again and guess who came to the rescue with a peace plan. Yep. South Africa. LOL. That pretty much means that these clowns will come back to power and the land given to the East Asians and the indigenous blacks of Madagascar kept on the bottom.... just like in South Africa.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEyKrZPbx-4&list=UUI3RT5PGmdi1KVp9FG_CneA&index=3


Note this subtle stab at black nationalism:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K18yVipLw9Y&list=UUI3RT5PGmdi1KVp9FG_CneA
"Everything about us is about love, we don't preach hatred" Black people invented R/B and soul yet don't get any money off it but I guess they LOVE being humble and broke while everyone else gets rich off their ideas and creativity. Just like blacks in South Africa (and the rest of Africa) just LOVES watching everyone else get rich off their land and resources while they live in slums........ Standing up for yourself and demanding your rights and well being as a human being is not "hate". Hate is white people creating systems of racial supremacy to rob you and kill you and cut off your testicles to guarantee you cannot reproduce and repopulate after being killed off. But dumb behind black people are the norm these days so what do you expect. Funny how that LOVE only goes out to whites and foreigners who are raping black folks but that LOVE sure doesn't apply to black folks who are killing each other, cant stand each other and wont come together to save their own lives after 500 or more years of hate from the ENTIRE PLANET.

Where is the LOVE in Congo where black people just cannot stop killing each other in order to guarantee that whites and foreigners get rich off the gold, cobalt, coltan, magnanese and all other such resources not to mention the lush tropical forest land....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyQLwnSH5lQ&list=UUI3RT5PGmdi1KVp9FG_CneA

White supremacy can only exist as long as black folks are dumb, backwards and ignorant. And white supremacy works HARD to keep it that way.

This is exactly what you get when the thieves and oppressors who have been raping Africa are allowed to hold themselves up as Africa's savior. This is what you get when African people world wide look up to and idolize whites(as gods) while hating themselves(the original gods of the planet).... The truth is that all humans have a spark of the divine in them as given to them by the universe itself. The same power that animates humans animates the universe. And who were the first to teach that principle? Africans. But at the same token there is always a dark side to everything just like there is darkness in the universe as well. And if the African originators and creators were so empowered and animated by the light, they would NEVER have allowed themselves to be conquered and laid so low as to be the laughing stock and floor mat of the planet. And as long as black folks idolize and love their "saviors" as white people instead of themselves, or in other words don't see the spark and animated force in themselves that gives them the power to over come any obstacle, then they will ALWAYS be backwards and on the bottom because that is anti self and anti life.

Note how the following article tries hard not to simply call a spade a spade and admit that white supremacy is alive and well in Africa. Why? Because to do that would mean that black folks have FAILED to do what they are SUPPOSED to be doing which is getting rid of the CANCER that is killing them and leaving them in poverty. But of course that would go against the agenda of the white supremacists who own the media and keep propagating the idea that this poverty in Africa all came about "naturally" and black folks should love them for trying to bring "progress".... When in reality black folks should be naturally trying to kick a$$ against white supremacy so they can truly be saved and live how the Creator intended them to live by acknowledging and upholding the savior within themselves and not the FAKE savior from without.
quote:

analysis

It's about time we called out the great myth that mass poverty just is, as if it were a natural part of some universal moral order. Such thinking is both profoundly untrue and disastrously misleading.

Poverty is human-made. It is created - knowingly and with scientific efficiency - by a vastly sophisticated industry that includes private companies, think tanks, media outlets, government policies, and more.

This 'Poverty Creation Industry' is about the least talked about feature of our global economy and yet it is perhaps the greatest market force in the modern world. Until we acknowledge this startling truth, progress towards global prosperity and sustainability will fall far short of what is possible.

This isn't to suggest that there's a dark, smoky room somewhere in which a small cabal plots to cause immeasurable misery just because they can. This isn't a conspiracy theory.

In truth, it happens in big boardrooms and political conferences, where people create rules and execute strategies to 'maximise self-interest' as economists say, by extracting wealth from others.

http://allafrica.com/stories/201304070234.html
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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by lamin:
quote:
what's racist about asking if you're white? Mike said you were albino. Albinos probably go back to the beginning. I'm checking to see if you will confirm it
.

Again, since when you are a spokesman/woman[?] for Mike? Mike is joker, a comic-relief fantasist; a hallucinating long-term refugee holed up somewhere in the bastion of latter-day slavery and human degradation.

"Albinos probably go back to the beginning"--what does that mean? LOL.

Again, you are racist for posing such a stupid question--hiding behind some fantasist.

How is it racist to ask if you're white?
If Trucentric could have a thread like this:

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=008298

you could be white.

If you're white I won't hold it against you. You're still my homeslice
Mike's great grandmother on his father's side was white.

I go by the reverse one drop rule. If you have one drop of white you're white

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Doug M:
[QB] Some more on this from current events:

White folks are not scared to speak against Africans (seeing how Africans have done nothing to remove them from power, I guess they feel perfectly safe among their slaves):


quote:
Johannesburg — South Africa has demanded an explanation from Zambia on remarks its vice-president Guy Scott reportedly made about President Jacob Zuma and others.

"We shall be summoning the high commissioner of Zambia ... to seek an explanation behind the remarks and what it means in the context of our bilateral relations," international relations spokesman Clayson Monyela said on Thursday.

"South Africa has taken note of the negative remarks about South Africa...

In view of this development, the SA government has decided to take the matter up through the appropriate diplomatic channels."

The report that irked South African officials was written by The Guardian's correspondent in Lusaka.

It initially appeared on the publication's UK website on Wednesday, and was issued by the Mail & Guardian in South Africa on its website on Thursday.

Scott told The Guardian newspaper in the UK Zuma was like former apartheid leader FW de Klerk, and that South Africans were "backward".

Said Scott: "He's [Zuma] very like De Klerk. He tells us: 'you just leave Zimbabwe to me.' Excuse me, who the hell liberated you anyway, was it not us? I mean, I quite like him, he seems a rather genial character but I pity him his advisers."

Scott went on to speak about South Africans, and black citizens.

"The South Africans are very backward in terms of historical development ... I hate South Africans ... they really think they're the bees' knees and actually they've been the cause of so much trouble in this part of the world," Scott told the newspaper.

"I have a suspicion the blacks model themselves on the whites now that they're in power."

He said he disliked South Africa because it was too big and "unsubtle".

Scott noted that South Africa had more than 80 tribes and several major language groups.

I don't see how Doug's remark makes sense. He says Africans have done nothing to remove white people from power and then has an article up about South Africa.
South Africans removed the white minority government.
Dougs cup is always half empty. That's not to say the wealth distribution has been resolved there and they haven't kicked out all the white companies but you can't say Africans have done nothing. There are numerous African states which have acquired independance from colonial rule.
The video he has up ,as expected, the poorest part of South Africa which has been overlooked and this is a bad thing, yet the man interviewed does say that significant progress has been made in bringing electricity to the nation.
There were no slums before colonial rule? That also has to do with modernization. Before modernization people were subsistence farmers with no access to electricity, modern medicine, plumbing systems, etc
We might have romantic notions of being farmers all day long
-while sitting at a computer writing stuff in forums

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lamin
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quote:
How is it racist to ask if you're white?
If Trucentric could have a thread like this:

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=008298

you could be white.

If you're white I won't hold it against you. You're still my homeslice
Mike's great grandmother on his father's side was white.

I go by the reverse one drop rule. If you have one drop of white you're white

LOL. But so sorry, absolutely no relationship to you.
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lamin
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quote:
How is it racist to ask if you're white?
If Trucentric could have a thread like this:

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=008298

you could be white.

If you're white I won't hold it against you. You're still my homeslice
Mike's great grandmother on his father's side was white.

I go by the reverse one drop rule. If you have one drop of white you're white

LOL. But so sorry, absolutely no relationship to you.
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xyyman
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Great thread, just seen it. The question I always ask is , what are the Europeans getting from the deal? Building all the Solar power plants in Africa.

--------------------
Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming

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Doug M
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Just ended was the world economic forum on Africa, one of the many globalist created and managed think tanks and forums on African economics. With all these think tanks and forums one has to ask why is Africa still so poor? Well because most of these think tanks and forums are sponsored by the same folks stealing everything in the first place. Primarily they are used as vehicles to promote propaganda about development that almost NEVER reflects any real progress for Africans. Rather it promotes the interests of the globalists, multinationals and banks by making it seem as if they are "working hard" to solve the problems of African economics. But in reality they are simply continue to "work hard" stealing Africa's wealth, but because they got so many black folks on the payroll it is easy for them to promote the illusion that somehow Africans are in the driver's seat.

quote:

A point frequently returned to throughout the World Economic Forum on Africa has been the inescapability of the fact that Africa’s economy will be shaped by its reserves of natural resources for the foreseeable future. Introducing the 2013 Africa Progress Report on Friday, Kofi Annan and his colleagues said that Africa’s mineral wealth has the potential to transform the continent, but resource-rich countries are leaving their poor behind. He also hit out at “shady deals” between mining houses and countries. By REBECCA DAVIS.

One thing that events like the World Economic Forum make clear is what a bewildering quantity of annual reports on Africa are produced by various thinktanks and foundations. On Friday, it was the turn of the Africa Progress Panel to launch their annual publication. The Africa Progress Panel is one of Kofi Annan’s post-UN initiatives: it consists of ten “distinguished individuals from the private and public sector”, although one can hardly avoid noting that musician-turned-Africa-saviour Bob Geldof is among their number. So, however, are ex-Nigerian president Olusegun Obasanjo, Graca Machel and former US Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin, so their claims to having a “formidable capacity to access a wide cross-section of society including at the highest levels in Africa and across the globe” may not be too far-fetched.

Before the launch of Friday’s report, Annan was quoted as having some pretty stern words for those in the extractive industries, and those in leadership positions on the continent, who sought to swindle Africa out of a just deal. Speaking to the BBC ahead of the launch, Annan told the BBC that African people are “not getting the revenues we deserve”. At the heart of this issue, he suggested, is a lack of transparency around production-sharing agreements and the sale of assets to foreign investors. “No country better illustrates the high costs associated with opaque concession trading than the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC),” the report states. “Privatization of the DRC’s minerals sector has been plagued by a culture of secrecy, informal deals and allegations of corruption”.

The report’s investigation of the DRC in this regard is extremely damning. It finds that the DRC lost at least $1,36 billion in revenues between 2010 and 2012 by underpricing mining assets sold to foreign companies. To make the enormity of this figure more stark, the report calculates that each DRC citizen, in a country of 67 million, lost the equivalent of $21 from these deals. Because the offshore companies managed to snap up the assets at such a steal - $275 million – their rate of return on these deals was on average 512 %, and as high as 980% in one deal. Those are profits which would have been warmly welcomed in a country that ranks lowest of all on the Human Development Index, measuring wealth, life expectancy and education.

The report is at pains to state that they are not explicitly accusing political leaders, officials or the foreign companies involved of deliberately engaging in illegal activity – although they do suggest that investigation be carried out to determine whether or not the assets were “knowingly undervalued”. But in recent years, they note, other huge losses in the sector have been incurred through a mixture of “poor management, corruption and flawed taxation policies”.

http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2013-05-10-kofi-annan-at-wef-africa-wants-a-better-deal-on-minerals/#.UY6BR0oUhBk

To this day most of the mines, farms and other major economic sectors are controlled by whites across Africa and we all know how they got there. And these forums are just another way for them to promote their own agenda while making it seem as if they are trying to make "progress"....

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lamin
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Part of the problem has to do with the masses voting into power individuals who, for the most part, know little about economics, little about African history, and who just cater to the corrupt African comprador[ they consume but don't produce] political groups that dominate all those tiny, piddling nations--like innocent virgins among a gang of violent rapists.

Case in point: Mbeki may not be perfect but the SA masses replaced him with an ignorant and corrupt illiterate, Jacob Zuma.

Such individuals--and most African heads of state are like him--just so easily and lazily facilitate the ongoing looting and selling off of Africa. Just so pathetic.

At one time the West wanted manpower to develop their stolen lands in the Americas and later in Africa, so they inveigled Africans to provide the manpower--hence the institutions of slavery in the Americas and Africa.

Now that machines are technology do the work better the same principle is at work. African governments are inveigled to hand over vital resources at very cheap prices with the corrupt governments getting enough to open up Swiss bank and Dubai accounts and buy property in Europe and the U.S.
Example: Teodorin Obiang, son of Equatorial Guinea's corrupt henchman president.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19120379

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mena7
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I dont believe in the democratic system were an ignorant, gullible, passionate and entertain masses elect the president of a country. The masses can be easily manipulate and deceive.If democracy was a good system ancient great civilisation like Ancient Egypt, Rome, Greece, Maurya, Han would have been a democracy.

Western countries are pushing democracy on the world because they know it is a weak system they can use to control countries.The West can give their puppet politician million of fiat money in secret to win election and sell out their country and resources.

The elite of a country should elect is president.An elite made up of elder, professor, scholar, businessman, union leader, clergy, nobility etc.The elite usualy are well educated, have experience and know secret.They are more likely to chose a good president and are very difficult to manipulate by foreign power.The USA plutocratic,aristocratic, banking and corporate elite are the one selecting the president everything else is manipulation.

The problem is not the African politician but the corrupt African political system that started with the corrupt slave trading monarchy to today sell out democracy.You could have a million election nothing will change because the politician first interest is to maintain power, be reelected and become rich.

Africa need an African Rothschild like banking family to take over African country central bank and control the sell out and prostitute politician.Banker running country is sometime corrupt and criminal but it will empower African countries against the West and China. the elite (elder, scholar, businessman, nobility)can balance the banker power.

The Republic of Venice is an example of the Venecian elite electing an Elder as Doge or President.In Rome the Elite cardinals elect an Elder cardinal as Pope or Priest-King.

--------------------
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Doug M
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The republic of Venice is the precursor to all of the corporate colonial entities created by the Europeans since the 16th century. All of them were based around the idea of conquest for profits and return on investments in the cost of voyages and salaries for sailors. The Republic of Venice was the origin of this because it was the force behind the crusades, not as a religious war, but as a trade war to take over the spice and textile trades from the east. It is not a coincidence that Venice and Italy became famous for textiles after this time, having taken many of the textiles, ideas and techniques from the Levant and Armenia. The whole point of the crusades was to take over the Islamic trade in the Mediterranean not to promote Christianity. And every since then, they have been using the same tactic to promote corporate banking profits in the name of religion. America is just the greatest example of this, but it is not really a democracy but a corporatocracy or corporate republic more than anything else.

The United States was settled as a series of royal crown COMPANIES and all the original "settlers" were actually employees of the COMPANY. NOBODY that came here as a settler actually came as a "FREE" man of his own accord with their own boats and wealth, as boats were only owned by the extremely rich who were part of the British trading, banking and maritime empire. Therefore to get a ride to the Americas you had to become an indentured servant to pay back the price of the boat trip to the company. All the lands in the Americas were the personal property of the King and he gave charters to the companies to use parts of these lands for generating profit as 'independent' companies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatocracy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chartered_companies

quote:

The British Empire used three main types of colonies as it sought to expand its territory to distant parts of the earth. These three types were royal colonies, proprietary colonies, and corporate colonies. A charter colony by definition is a "colony…chartered to an individual, trading company, etc., by the British crown." Although charter colonies were not the most prevalent of the three types of colonies in the British Empire, they were by no means insignificant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter

http://books.google.com/books?id=QmQUAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false


So we should not pretend that western European colonial entities like America or New Zealand represent democracies in its truest sense. They represent global banking and trade guilds and monopolies that are built on the promise of prosperity and wealth that motivates people over and above everything else. And that promise of wealth and prosperity comes at a cost: it requires the exploitation and subjugation of large parts of the planet in order for it to work: ie. Africa.

Look at what happened in Bangladesh for example: http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/13/world/asia/bangladesh-building-collapse/index.html?hpt=hp_bn2

But do you see any Bangladeshi's rioting at the U.S. or Western Embassies? Why not? Because everyone loves America and the West for all the glory and wonders of "democracy" and "freedom" even as those are built on exploitation in the countries that love them. Such is the power of the ideal and the "promise" of opportunity and wealth that most people will never achieve. But that "belief" in the power of an idea has won the hearts and minds of most of the planet. And that is the most important point. (In my best ole time preacher man voice....) "If you just BELIEVE my chile...."

And this isn't lost on anybody, especially those in the West, as movies like The Great Gatsby and games like Bioshock Infinite contain these themes writ large onscreen.

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Doug M
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More on the "Sea to Shining Sea" charter of America or "Columbia" as defined by the British charters:

quote:

I JAMES, by the Grace of God, King of England, Scotland, France and Ireland, Defender of the Faith, &c. WHEREAS our loving and well-disposed Subjects, Sir Thomas Gates, and Sir George Somers, Knights, Richard Hackluit, Prebendary of Westminster, and Edward-Maria Wingfield, Thomas Hanham, and Ralegh Gilbert, Esqrs. William Parker, and George Popham, Gentlemen, and divers others of our loving Subjects, have been humble Suitors unto us, that We would vouchsafe unto them our Licence, to make Habitation, Plantation, and to deduce a Colony of sundry of our People into that Part of America, commonly called VIRGINIA, and other Parts and Territories in America, either appertaining unto us, or which are not now actually possessed by any Christian Prince or People, situate, lying, and being all along the Sea Coasts, between four and thirty Degrees of Northerly Latitude from the Equinoctial Line, and five and forty Degrees of the same Latitude, and in the main Land between the same four and thirty and five and forty Degrees, and the Islands thereunto adjacent, or within one hundred Miles of the Coasts thereof; 1
II. And to that End, and for the more speedy Accomplishment of their said intended Plantation and Habitation there, are desirous to divide themselves into two several Colonies and Companies; The one consisting of certain Knights, Gentlemen, Merchants, and other Adventurers, of our City of London and elsewhere, which are, and from time to time shall be, joined unto them, which do desire to begin their Plantation and Habitation in some fit and convenient Place, between four and thirty and one and forty Degrees of the said Latitude, along the Coasts of Virginia and Coasts of America aforesaid; And the other consisting of sundry Knights, Gentlemen, Merchants, and other Adventurers, of our Cities of Bristol and Exeter, and of our Town of Plimouth, and of other Places, which do join themselves unto that Colony, which do desire to begin their Plantation and Habitation in some fit and convenient Place, between eight and thirty Degrees and five and forty Degrees of the said Latitude, all alongst the said Coast of Virginia and America, as that Coast lyeth:

http://www.bartleby.com/43/5.html

Charter of Virginia (south) and Plymouth(north) extended from "sea to sea":
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quote:

In 1609, with the abandonment of the Plymouth Company settlement, the London Company's Virginia charter was adjusted to include the territory north of the 34th parallel and south of the 39th parallel, with its original coastal grant extended "from sea to sea". Thus, at least on paper, the Virginia Colony in its original sense extended to the coast of the Pacific Ocean, in what is now California, with all the states in between (Kentucky, Missouri, Colorado, Utah, etc.) belonging to Virginia. For practical purposes, though, the original Virginians rarely ventured far inland to what was then known as "The Virginia Wilderness", although the concept itself helped renew the interest of investors, and additional funds enabled an expanded effort, known as the Third Supply.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colony_of_Virginia
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