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Author Topic: History student notices artifact tampering (Abu Simbel) on the History Channel
geeskee55
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@ 7:50 he says:

"This is for my Afrocentrics...I'm not Afrocentric, but ya know..it's obvious that's bull*hit"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEEMhSMf3go

The clip shows how the Abu Simbel colossal statues looked before they were moved.

It is VITAL to pause the video at approximately 4:44.

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malibudusul
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albinos...
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Ish Gebor
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^Malibudusul, I understand your anger. But you can't blame anybody like a loose cannon. I understand it's hard broh.


quote:
Originally posted by geeskee55:
@ 7:50 he says:

"This is for my Afrocentrics...I'm not Afrocentric, but ya know..it's obvious that's bull*hit"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEEMhSMf3go

The clip shows how the Abu Simbel colossal statues looked before they were moved.

It is VITAL to pause the video at approximately 4:44.

Thanks for posting this. Yes they did relocate the Temple. And you are right in your observations.


I forgot about it, but there was a public outrage of a "nosejob" years ago. It could be it was about this. There has to be an article somewhere on this particular event.

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Mike111
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^The more you know about what the Albinos have done, AND ARE DOING, the more you curse them.
Welcome to the real world geeskee55.

BTW - see my new thread - the Albinos won't stop lying, so we must keep exposing their lies.

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-Just Call Me Jari-
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One theory Ive heard was that Abu Simbel was built to impress the Nubian/Kushites by Ramses hence his and his wife and Daughters are presented as Nubians. The Logic breaks down when one considers that Abu Simbel was built by Nubian Masons themselves and the Final Nail is the fact that Ramses' Dynasty was e1b1a.
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Swenet
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Ramsess' nose looks more sharply defined after the relocation to Abu Simbel, but not necessarily any narrower (though I could be wrong).

I've been surrounded by Eurocentric manipulations for so long that I've grown desensitized to them: they don't bother me as much as they used to. I hate to say it, but at the same time, I'm glad I've let go.

Jari, remember the video I did where I exposed Egyptologist Bob Brier for his, shall I say, not so factual presentation on the ethnic identity of Ancient Egyptians? They've actually deleted it. Youtube has deleted my video under the false pretence of ''copyright infringement''.

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Mike111
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^The Albinos are closing ranks to protect their lies.
My video "Silly things White people say" was deleted from youtube because it was deemed racist.

Of course that's a GOOD thing, eventually Blacks
will understand that they need to create their own media distribution channels.

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mena7
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Mike let another person repost on youtube the video silly thing white people say.It will take youtube guatekeeper some time to foundout about it.

--------------------
mena

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the lioness,
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 -

the situtaion in the video is this.

That in a frontal or nearly frontal view of a sculpture you often cant tell how long the nose is or get the best sense of it's shape


 -
^^^^ you probably didn't think his nose was as straight and pointy as this in the first picture. It's about the angle


 -

_______^^^^ The in person in the video is calling these features non African. So I guess he's an accidental racist

All that happens in the video is that first a front view is shown.
A proper comparision is a before and after of the same angle.

But furthermore there are three figures there (a 4th partial)
They do not all look the same. The noses are different. He shows two different statues and thinks its' before and after of the same one, nonsense. Watch how mistakes spread all over the web


 -

lioness productions
everyday like a vitamin

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Carlos Coke
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^However, none of the noses on the statues above look like those in the video below.

Can someone take the images at 1:19:40 and 1:19:44/45 and post them here so people can judge for themselves?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YKeyTS4mlQ

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-Just Call Me Jari-
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Yeah I hear you on the desensitization, Ive let it go as well. And yeah I remember your video, It was so well done, all that sweat and time put into it.. [Mad] Damn that sucks I had no idea..

quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:


Jari, remember the video I did where I exposed Egyptologist Bob Brier for his, shall I say, not so factual presentation on the ethnic identity of Ancient Egyptians? They've actually deleted it. Youtube has deleted my video under the false pretence of ''copyright infringement''.


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geeskee55
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quote:
Originally posted by claus3600:
^However, none of the noses on the statues above look like those in the video below.

Can someone take the images at 1:19:40 and 1:19:44/45 and post them here so people can judge for themselves?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YKeyTS4mlQ

Even my wife who has absolutely no interest in connecting Negros with EGYPT says that these faces are undoubtedly NEGRO.

Why is there such a big a controversy again?

Oh yeah...Racism White Supremacy

BTW..I was going to get a still at 119:40 but there is too much shadow to be able to distinguish anything.
 -

 -

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the lioness,
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 -
 -

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geeskee55
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Ramses in Art and Media

How do they get these images from the statues?

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geeskee55
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Lioness ^^^^

I think that the angles of the photographs are significant.

The "mug shot" angle is the best to determine tampering.

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Brada-Anansi
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 -

Usually we get an up angle shot a good comparison would be a straight angle shot full frontal from the before and after,but I have to say looks like someone was fukin with the features.

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the lioness,
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.


.
__________________________________________________THIS ONE HERE AT RIGHT FIGURE #4
 -
 -
_____________________________________________________^^^^SAME FIGURE DIFFERENT ANGLE believe dat


=
 -
SAME FIGURE


=
SAME FIGURE
 -


SAME FIGURE (detail enlargement from full set of four figure I put up earlier, the far right side figure)
 -
lioness in the building

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Ish Gebor
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^I stood in front of and was literally in the building.

All the images showed like Southern Egyptians.

The basar was fun too.

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Ish Gebor
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
 -

the situtaion in the video is this.

That in a frontal or nearly frontal view of a sculpture you often cant tell how long the nose is or get the best sense of it's shape


 -
^^^^ you probably didn't think his nose was as straight and pointy as this in the first picture. It's about the angle


 -

_______^^^^ The in person in the video is calling these features non African. So I guess he's an accidental racist

All that happens in the video is that first a front view is shown.
A proper comparision is a before and after of the same angle.

But furthermore there are three figures there (a 4th partial)
They do not all look the same. The noses are different. He shows two different statues and thinks its' before and after of the same one, nonsense. Watch how mistakes spread all over the web


This is a better comparison for your collection.

The person in. The video is off, when it comes to understanding the diversity in facial characteristics. However the image you exibite by Khafre as an example, has maxillary (upper nasal) prognathism. A typical African trait. He shows platyrrhine as well. lol

 -


 -


 -

 -

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Mikemikev
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quote:
Originally posted by troll patrol:

The person in. The video is off, when it comes to understanding the diversity in facial characteristics. However the image you exibite by Khafre as an example, has maxillary (upper nasal) prognathism. A typical African trait. He shows platyrrhine as well. lol

When it fits their agenda Afrocentrics suddenly believe in the 'True Negro'.
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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
^I stood in front of and was literally in the building.

All the images showed like Southern Egyptians.

The basar was fun too.

quote:
Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
maxillary (upper nasal) prognathism. A typical African trait. He shows platyrrhine as well. lol


.

Troll Patrol do you have any reason to believe that any of the following items are fake or have been tampered with to make him look "whiter"?


.

 -
(figure at right is same figure shown in video)


 -
Ramesses II-Colored Relief, Brooklyn Museum

.
 -
Rameses II statue Museo Egizio, in Turin,
.

 -
Rameses II statue saqqara_

.
 -
Rameses II

 -
 -

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anguishofbeing
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They don't look "whiter", they look black.
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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by anguishofbeing:
They don't look "whiter", they look black.

according to the white guy in the video's perspective in the first post

which nobody is questioning

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Ish Gebor
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 -


I know there was an outcry by Egyptians. Over the nose of a statue being altered. I however don't know if it was this statue.

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Ish Gebor
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quote:
Originally posted by Faheemdunkers:
quote:
Originally posted by troll patrol:

The person in. The video is off, when it comes to understanding the diversity in facial characteristics. However the image you exibite by Khafre as an example, has maxillary (upper nasal) prognathism. A typical African trait. He shows platyrrhine as well. lol

When it fits their agenda Afrocentrics suddenly believe in the 'True Negro'.
I did not speak of a "negro" you are doing so, as usually.


I speak of typical common traits found within African populations, from all regions. See the difference?

I don't box my African fellow people, the way Eurocentrics are doing with us!

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
^I stood in front of and was literally in the building.

All the images showed like Southern Egyptians.

The basar was fun too.

quote:
Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
maxillary (upper nasal) prognathism. A typical African trait. He shows platyrrhine as well. lol


.

Troll Patrol do you have any reason to believe that any of the following items are fake or have been tampered with to make him look "whiter"?


.

 -
(figure at right is same figure shown in video)


 -
Ramesses II-Colored Relief, Brooklyn Museum

.
 -
Rameses II statue Museo Egizio, in Turin,
.

 -
Rameses II statue saqqara_

.
 -
Rameses II

 -
 -

quote:
Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
 -


I know there was an outcry by Egyptians. Over the nose of a statue being altered. I however don't know if it was this statue.

So since you have no information as to what statue may have been altered do you question the authenticty of any of the artifacts in this post? if so which ones?
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Ish Gebor
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^Your question is rhetorical.

But to answer it, anyway. I don't know!

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
^Your question is rhetorical.

But to answer it, anyway. I don't know!

rhetorical question =

A question were the speaker does not expect an answer


example::

"Is the sky blue?"

"Is the Pope catholic? "

"What's the matter with you?"
___________________________________

I didn't ask you a rhetorical question.
I was expecting you to give an answer no or yes and then indicate which artifact you thought
might be fake or tampered with.

That is not a rhertorical question. What's the matter with you?

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Swenet
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quote:
Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
Yeah I hear you on the desensitization, Ive let it go as well. And yeah I remember your video, It was so well done, all that sweat and time put into it.. [Mad] Damn that sucks I had no idea..

quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:


Jari, remember the video I did where I exposed Egyptologist Bob Brier for his, shall I say, not so factual presentation on the ethnic identity of Ancient Egyptians? They've actually deleted it. Youtube has deleted my video under the false pretence of ''copyright infringement''.


Luckily I still have the original video safely tucked away. TTC (they now go by the name ''the great courses'') and Bob Brier are sadly mistaken if they think they've seen the last of me and my critique of their course on Ancient Egypt.
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Ish Gebor
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
^Your question is rhetorical.

But to answer it, anyway. I don't know!

rhetorical question =

A question were the speaker does not expect an answer


example::

"Is the sky blue?"

"Is the Pope catholic? "

"What's the matter with you?"
___________________________________

I didn't ask you a rhetorical question.
I was expecting you to give an answer no or yes and then indicate which artifact you thought
might be fake or tampered with.

That is not a rhertorical question. What's the matter with you?

If I tell you I have NO information on, whether this statue was altered. Why is it needed for you to ask the same over?

If I don't know it means I can't answer with yes or no. Because if I did I would know.


Definition of RHETORICAL QUESTION

: a question not intended to elicit an answer but asked for rhetorical effect often with an assumption that only one answer is possible (as in “Who does not love his country?”)

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Tyrannohotep
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quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:
I've been surrounded by Eurocentric manipulations for so long that I've grown desensitized to them: they don't bother me as much as they used to. I hate to say it, but at the same time, I'm glad I've let go.

I'm not exactly the same here. I mean, I'm no longer surprised by Eurocentric distortions, but I am sick of them. I could possibly brush them aside more easily if they didn't go hand in hand with the dehumanization of African people and the implicit assertion that they couldn't build complex cultures or exert any cultural influences on the rest of the world. The most upsetting thing about it is that some very powerful and influential people, for one reason or another, have a vested interest in defending the orthodoxy as if it were fact.

I'm saddened to hear that your video got taken down. For me it illustrates just how powerless we really are when it comes to bringing about actual change in the public perception of ancient Egypt. I've grown jaded about the belief that a bunch of videos, papers, and drawings uploaded on the Internet are enough to challenge the establishment.

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Brada-Anansi
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Ah not powerless the information got out folks of all stripes viewed it the tooth paste is out of the tube can't put it back in.plus like Swenet said he have back-up.. [Big Grin]
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Carlos Coke
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@truthcentric
quote:
For me it illustrates just how powerless we really are when it comes to bringing about actual change in the public perception of ancient Egypt. I've grown jaded about the belief that a bunch of videos, papers, and drawings uploaded on the Internet are enough to challenge the establishment.
Don't be disheartened. I'm not sure what the situation is like in the US, but anecdotally, in Britain, once I've explained/dated the presence of Arabs in modern Egypt as the process of Arab colonization of North Africa and Iberia then the penny drops. Drawing parallels with the European colonization of North America and Australasia and the marginalisation of the indigenous populations also seems to help with understanding.

I think people -in the UK anyway - would generally be open to it. It just needs someone with gravitas to present something on a mainstream channel.

Again, this is Britain. Not sure how that would go down in America.

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Tyrannohotep
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quote:
Originally posted by claus3600:
@truthcentric
quote:
For me it illustrates just how powerless we really are when it comes to bringing about actual change in the public perception of ancient Egypt. I've grown jaded about the belief that a bunch of videos, papers, and drawings uploaded on the Internet are enough to challenge the establishment.
Don't be disheartened. I'm not sure what the situation is like in the US, but anecdotally, in Britain, once I've explained/dated the presence of Arabs in modern Egypt as the process of Arab colonization of North Africa and Iberia then the penny drops. Drawing parallels with the European colonization of North America and Australasia and the marginalisation of the indigenous populations also seems to help with understanding.

I think people -in the UK anyway - would generally be open to it. It just needs someone with gravitas to present something on a mainstream channel.

Again, this is Britain. Not sure how that would go down in America.

Actually I have found some people in the US who are open to Black Egypt, and I don't mean only Afro-Diaspora people. In my experience, these open-minded types tend to be laypeople who don't have an emotional investment in the topic either way and haven't really considered it before.

I know that when I first heard the proposition that AEs were black people, it made intuitive sense to me. I mean, like most white kids reading about ancient Egypt, I grew up with the "tanned Caucasian" image shown in modern illustrations, but once the alternative view came to my attention, I thought, "duh, Egypt is in Africa, so of course they'd be black!" It's rather like most white people in the US grow up with the image of White Jesus but will concede his Middle Eastern identity once they recognize where Biblical Israel was geographically located.

Of course, I was already cognizant of all the historical invasions and immigration waves Egypt has received since the time of the Pharaohs, so I never perceived indigenous Egyptians as being particularly related to Arabs, Greeks, or anyone else from the Middle East and Mediterranean region.

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Carlos Coke
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quote:
In my experience, these open-minded types tend to be laypeople who don't have an emotional investment in the topic either way and haven't really considered it before.

Yep.
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Tyrannohotep
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While we're on the subject of reaching out to the public, I have an E-book in the works that will provide a historical overview of the ancient Egyptian and Nubian civilizations. Although I will definitely discuss the African origin and race debate in my E-book, my scope covers a broader range of topics and is really directed at interested laypeople of all backgrounds. I think people will be more receptive to my E-book if I talk about all kinds of Egyptological topics rather than stick to the race theme.
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Djehuti
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Unless I have clear and concise 'mugshots' of the Ramuse face-- frontal as well as right and left profiles-- I can't say for sure that the noses were purposely altered.

However, I am not in doubt that such a thing could have happened nor am I surprised. I've discussed this Ausar, Explorer, and others before but the conspiracy to de-Africanize Egypt is not solely a 'Eurocentric' agenda but an Arab one as well. Many of the Afrangi elite and their supporters in Egypt have as much vested interest in altering ancient portraits as their Euronut allies. It is all part and parcel of the Neo-Arab identity that many in North Africa have. The 'Arabs' or rather Levantine Asiatics have been in Egypt and for over a thousand years and already they have this confused and conflicted agenda that they are native, nay 'indigenous' North Africans yet there is the problem of the true indigenes i.e. the blacks whose ancient monuments and civilization they seek to claim even though many no doubt do have indigenous (black) ancestry. The irony is that the actual people responsible for the vandalism and/or nose jobs of Egyptian portraits are Egyptians themselves. The destruction of noses are a way of ruining or smiting idols but the actual nose jobs are done in commission with certain forces within the Egyptian government to de-Africanize the portraits. Another irony is that many Egyptian and North African women in general actually get nose jobs if they feel their noses are too wide. [Embarrassed]

As for the whole 'nose' obsession P.K. Manansala said it better himself in his anthropology primer:

One might wonder whether the claim of Afrocentrists and others of vandalism by Europeans of Egyptian, Indian and other non-European sculpture by breaking off the non-Europoid noses is not connected in some way to this nasal 'fetish.' The nasal index was popularly used by diffusionists to prove "white" origins of civilizations as diverse as the Chinese, Mayan and Polynesian. For example, in order to "claim" the great sailing accomplishments of the early Austronesians, the idea of their previously being a branch of "dark whites" unmixed with "Malays," was, and to an extent still is widely offered. This dark white relationship was founded on such concepts as long, narrow noses being labeled "Caucasoid." Although most Indonesian, Micronesian, Melanesian and Polynesian populations are actually mesorhinne, i.e., they possess medium broad noses, there are substanial numbers of individuals with narrow noses. However, at the same time, most Oceanic populations have the trait known as the sacral, or "Mongolian" spot at rates of 100% or nearly so. In comparison, most European populations have rates much lower than 10%, and often lower than 2% (Montagu, 1960). Few if any theories have been offered showing that the sacral spot is due in any great part to selective processes, yet this highly suggestive evidence is ignored, and the nose is focused on instead. In other words, only evidence that supports the idea of Caucasoid cultural and racial superiority, or "white" hyperdiffusion is given weight.

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Djehuti
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quote:
Originally posted by Truthcentric:

quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:
I've been surrounded by Eurocentric manipulations for so long that I've grown desensitized to them: they don't bother me as much as they used to. I hate to say it, but at the same time, I'm glad I've let go.

I'm not exactly the same here. I mean, I'm no longer surprised by Eurocentric distortions, but I am sick of them. I could possibly brush them aside more easily if they didn't go hand in hand with the dehumanization of African people and the implicit assertion that they couldn't build complex cultures or exert any cultural influences on the rest of the world. The most upsetting thing about it is that some very powerful and influential people, for one reason or another, have a vested interest in defending the orthodoxy as if it were fact.

I'm saddened to hear that your video got taken down. For me it illustrates just how powerless we really are when it comes to bringing about actual change in the public perception of ancient Egypt. I've grown jaded about the belief that a bunch of videos, papers, and drawings uploaded on the Internet are enough to challenge the establishment.

I too am no longer angered since such anger and frustration though rightfully so is only a taxation to one's health. I am still sick of it! Though as black American female Civil Rights leader Fannie Lou Hamer said, "I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired", and it's time for something to be done. I agree with Brada that something IS being done via dissemination of information on the true Black African identity and nature of ancient Egypt and the centuries of white-wash and obfuscation of such. This is not a matter of 'Afrocentrism' or even black peoples' legacy and heritage being stolen but a violation of HUMANITY regardless of color or geographic origin! As you say truth, this is part of a larger process of dehumanization and on rather pathetic level if one is so desperate to alter the features of a portrait.
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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
The destruction of noses are a way of ruining or smiting idols but the actual nose jobs are done in commission with certain forces within the Egyptian government to de-Africanize the portraits.

evidence?
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