quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: And that article makes sense since many Eritrean and Ethiopic populations came there from North Africa and Sahara.
Like I always said the so-called "Hamites" are nothing less than some Nilotic "Negroes" who've absorbed some non-Africans as evidenced by THEIR HAIR.
Their hair is actually native to Africa...
Posts: 1135 | From: Top secret | Registered: Jun 2012
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posted
There is no such thing as race, Pulp. I like to rely a lot on the East Asian scientists now too, BTW.
After all its only through them we could have learned how late the ancestors of northern Eurasians came into southwest Asia i.e. Iran and Southern Mesopotamia.
-------------------- D. Reynolds-Marniche Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Pulp: Dana you are in fact pushing forward racial claims about racial purity. Defacto you are in line with your kind, Adolf Hitler an original E1b1b Moor. He was also haunted by the idea of purifying the Arian race "whatever that is". Why? Because he himself was subconsciously uncertain of his own murky Ancestry, aka Schicklgruber. Defacto you seem to be on the same side of the spectrum , just pulling in an opposite direction.On the other Hand seeking accuracy through knowledge is never wrong, that’s why I would rather see Asians doing Historical research and interpreting it. They seem to be less based and are mostly not into Jewish fairytales.
PS. I personally feel no loyalty to Euros or Americans.
you would admit Amun Ra, Horus, Nut are also fairy tales?
Posts: 42922 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: And that article makes sense since many Eritrean and Ethiopic populations came there from North Africa and Sahara.
Like I always said the so-called "Hamites" are nothing less than some Nilotic "Negroes" who've absorbed some non-Africans as evidenced by THEIR HAIR.
Their hair is actually native to Africa...
Some of it is isn't native to BLACK Africans, SON, and got there through their partly EURASIAN ancestry like I've always said.
People can't have it both ways. Are white Eurasians NATIVE to eastern Africa too.
Are we going to say there is no such thing as a Middleastern Eurasian too THAT ENTERED NORTHERN AFRICA when genetics in facts PROVES THEY DID, and pretend most blacks in the horn don't have kinky or woolly hair.
Sorry, but I'm not into the hamitic CAUCASIAN theory that Neanderdummy is - aka the fair-skinned "Eurasians have always been in the Horn" theory.
Because frankly you haven't shown they even made it in any sufficient number into Arabia, let alone east Africa.
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there is no indication that northern ARabia was occupied by anybody but these BLACKS until the 17th century when Syrian bedouin moved down from the north.
recap:
Himyarite
Bronze statue of Dhamar Ali Yahbur. "King of Sabat" (Himyarite Kingdom) late 3rd-early 4th century AD)
_________________________________________________
Sabaean
Yemen, Sabaean bronze head of a youth, 2nd Century AD sanctuary of Madrah at Ghayman Posts: 42922 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
Romans Greeks and Parthians are a very small part of ancient south Arabia during the pre-Christian era. Why not post sculptures of Arabs from that period, instead of the same few and far between folk 1000 and 500 years later.
Theyre not necessarily Syrians and the bottom one looks especially Roman. Actually the top guy could be anything but obviously mixed with non Arab because he has wavy hair Parthian like hair and loooks to have had a round head unlike most ancient i.e. Himyarites of the region. 2 down a half a million to go.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: And that article makes sense since many Eritrean and Ethiopic populations came there from North Africa and Sahara.
Like I always said the so-called "Hamites" are nothing less than some Nilotic "Negroes" who've absorbed some non-Africans as evidenced by THEIR HAIR.
Their hair is actually native to Africa...
Some of it is isn't native to BLACK Africans, SON, and got there through their partly EURASIAN ancestry like I've always said.
People can't have it both ways. Are white Eurasians NATIVE to eastern Africa too.
Are we going to say there is no such thing as a Middleastern Eurasian too THAT ENTERED NORTHERN AFRICA when genetics in facts PROVES THEY DID, and pretend most blacks in the horn don't have kinky or woolly hair.
Sorry, but I'm not into the hamitic CAUCASIAN theory that Neanderdummy is - aka the fair-skinned "Eurasians have always been in the Horn" theory.
Because frankly you haven't shown they even made it in any sufficient number into Arabia, let alone east Africa.
When I mean their hair I mean wavy/curly which most horners(Ethiopians, Eritreans, Somalis,etc) have.
What your posting makes no sense...So when it comes to Eurasians mixing with East Africans, Middle easterners are now Eurasian. And no this has nothing to do with no silly Hamitic myth but African diversity. Horners as a whole carry very little Eurasian DNA excluding the Amhara people.
Wavy/Curly hair in horners is due to DRY HEAT ADAPTATION. That type of hair is needed for that environment. This has nothing to do with no silly Hamitic myth.
I had this same debate a million times on other sites.
Posts: 1135 | From: Top secret | Registered: Jun 2012
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posted
Most horners DO NOT HAVE WAVY OR CURLY hair but have kinky and woolly hair I think you must be living on this site or something and seeing the NEANDERWOMAN'S PICTURE SPAMS.
YOU ARE THE ONE THAT MAKE NO SENSE, SON. I AM SORRY BUT EAST AFRICANS DO NOT MOSTLY HAVE WAVY HAIR.
On the other hand of course many close to the Yemen do just as many black people in Yemen and Sudan do.
And it looks like you will be debating it a million times more.
When there is really nothing to debate.
And you are correct most people of the Horn have little Eurasian dna.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: Most horners DO NOT HAVE WAVY OR CURLY hair but have kinky and woolly hair I think you must be living on this site or something and seeing the NEANDERWOMAN'S PICTURE SPAMS.
YOU ARE THE ONE THAT MAKE NO SENSE, SON. I AM SORRY BUT EAST AFRICANS DO NOT MOSTLY HAVE WAVY HAIR.
On the other hand of course many close to the Yemen do just as many black people in Yemen and Sudan do.
Um...Yes they do. Their hair varies from Wavy/Curly/Kinky. Enough with the projections, I don't care what beef you or Lioness have or her picture spam. I'm going by my OWN accord and the fact is wavy/curly hair is more likely native to Africa and is a part of the adaption. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ke7ZH8_1v9E
From Britannica Encyclopedia (1990 ed.)
East African local race, a subgroup, roughly corresponding to a breeding isolate in genetics, of the Negroid (African) geographical race, comprising the populations of East Africa and The Sudan. The physical type of the East African local race is primarily one of adaptation to a hot, dry climate; it is marked by long, thin body build, long, narrow face and nose, and moderate to heavy skin pigmentation. The Sudanese peoples are dark-skinned and extremely tall and thin (linear) in build. The other East African populations are also more or less linear in build and somewhat lighter skinned than the Sudanese. All have dark eyes and dark hair, wavy to frizzy in texture.
Hence this... Posts: 1135 | From: Top secret | Registered: Jun 2012
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posted
That is not the bulk of the Somalis let alone of the people of the Horn Son. Now I'm going to have to stop talking to you if you want to just wish things into existence. Where does it say in the above that most people in the Horn wavy/curly hair.
BTW - Somalis are one of the closest people to the Yemen.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: That is not the bulk of the Somalis let alone of the people of the Horn Son. Now I'm going to have to stop talking to you if you want to just wish things into existence where does it say in the above that most people in the have wavy/curly hair.
BTW - Somalis are one of the closest people to the Yemen.
Read the source carefully it states wavy hair is APART of African diversity and is due to dry heat adaption and NOT Eurasian. Lol!
Almost everyone the video I posted has wavy/curly hair. Not only that I posted SOURCES stating that wavy hair in horners is due to dry heat adaptation.
Stop acting denial and actually try to refute what I posted. What do you mean wish things???? Refute what I posted.
Again horners hair varies from wavy/curly/kinky. I even met plenty of Somalis to know they have wavy/curly hair.
If Horners have less Eurasian DNA then how do they have wavy/curly hair????
But more importantly.
Alleged massive influx of Europeans and Middle Easterners to give the ancient peoples hair variation did not happen. Such variation was already in place as part of Africa' built in genetic and phenotypic diversity. As regards diameter, the average diameter of the Semna sample was close to both the Northwest European and East African samples. This again suggests a range of built-in African indigenous variability, and calls into questions various migration theories to the Nile Valley. One study for example (Keita 2005) tested the model of C. Loring Brace (1993) as to the notion of incoming European migrants replacing indigenous peoples of the Nile Valley. Brace's work had also suggested a relationship between northwest Europeans such as Scandanavians and African peoples of the Horn. Data analysis failed to support this model, instead clustering samples much closer to African series than to Europeans. Keita concluded that similarities between African data in his survey (skulls, etc) and non-Africans was not due to gene flow, but a subset of built-in African variability.
Ancient Egyptians cluster much closer to other Egyptians and Nubians. A later study by Brace, (Brace 2005- The questionable contribution..) groups ancient Egyptian populations like the Naqada closer to Nubians and Somalis than European, Mediterranean or Middle Eastern populations, and places various Nubians samples closer to Tanzanian, Dahomeian, and Congoid data points than to Europeans and Middle easterners. The limb proportion studies of Zakrzewski (2003) (Zakrzewski, S.R. (2003). "Variation in ancient Egyptian stature and body proportions". American Journal of Physical Anthropology 121 (3): 219-229.) showing the tropical body plan of the ancient Egyptians also undercuts theories of inflowing European or near Eastern colonists, or the 'native Europid' model of Strouhal (1971).
HA!
Posts: 1135 | From: Top secret | Registered: Jun 2012
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quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: Romans Greeks and Parthians are a very small part of ancient south Arabia during the pre-Christian era. Why not post sculptures of Arabs from that period, instead of the same few and far between folk 1000 and 500 years later.
Theyre not necessarily Syrians and the bottom one looks especially Roman. Actually the top guy could be anything but obviously mixed with non Arab because he has wavy hair Parthian like hair and loooks to have had a round head unlike most ancient i.e. of the region. 2 down a half a million to go.
Just some nobody king of the Himyarites, 300 years before Muhammad
Posts: 42922 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Son of Ra: Read the source carefully it states wavy hair is APART of African diversity and is due to dry heat adaption and NOT Eurasian. Lol!
why would wavy hair be more suited to a dry envirionment than afro-kinky hair?
why are wavy hair people more suited to a desert envirionment than afro-kinky haired people?
-look at the Khosians for instance
Posts: 42922 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Umm OK I just watched the video and saw total of 3 people with what I thought could be called curly hair.
I guess you need to get some reading glasses on or live among the Somali's LIKE I DID in Harlem so you can make the right call about what most Somali hair look like.
When Somali hair grows out it look for the most part just like this.
Sorry to bust your bubble.
If that's what you call curly, I beg to disagree.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: Romans Greeks and Parthians are a very small part of ancient south Arabia during the pre-Christian era. Why not post sculptures of Arabs from that period, instead of the same few and far between folk 1000 and 500 years later.
Theyre not necessarily Syrians and the bottom one looks especially Roman. Actually the top guy could be anything but obviously mixed with non Arab because he has wavy hair Parthian like hair and loooks to have had a round head unlike most ancient i.e. of the region. 2 down a half a million to go.
Just some nobody king of the Himyarites, 300 years before Muhammad
Himyarite Qatabanian King at the apex of their civilization when Yemen was known as Ethiopia centuries before Christ, and before admixture with Iranians and Greeks. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
What Eugen Strouhal rightly showed for the wrong reasons is that the Badarians had already some mixture of diverse hair types.
So whatever or whoever that is is only wishful thinking, and doesn't know about the history of the Badarians WHO HAD PROBABLY BEEN IN CONTACT WITH WHITE EURASIANS FOR MILLENIUMS before living in the Sahara.
Most people living in very hot dry areas have kinky or even pepper corn hair. NOT CURLY HAIR OR WAVY HAIR.
So do the horners to some extent. People in the Sahara and Sahel have absorbed non-Africans over centuries and thus have a range of hair types most of it KINKY. That's what happens when you mix Nordics and other Europeans with Negroes.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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Yet has mainly dark skin with a broad nose. Why is that?
@dana marniche
Terrible comparisons. Thats an Afar...Not an ethnic Somali. And doesn't curly hair look sorta like that when grown out????
Me thinks you think curly hair(in African descent people) grown out is suppose to look like this.
Can you refute this????
Alleged massive influx of Europeans and Middle Easterners to give the ancient peoples hair variation did not happen. Such variation was already in place as part of Africa' built in genetic and phenotypic diversity. As regards diameter, the average diameter of the Semna sample was close to both the Northwest European and East African samples. This again suggests a range of built-in African indigenous variability, and calls into questions various migration theories to the Nile Valley. One study for example (Keita 2005) tested the model of C. Loring Brace (1993) as to the notion of incoming European migrants replacing indigenous peoples of the Nile Valley. Brace's work had also suggested a relationship between northwest Europeans such as Scandanavians and African peoples of the Horn. Data analysis failed to support this model, instead clustering samples much closer to African series than to Europeans. Keita concluded that similarities between African data in his survey (skulls, etc) and non-Africans was not due to gene flow, but a subset of built-in African variability.
Ancient Egyptians cluster much closer to other Egyptians and Nubians. A later study by Brace, (Brace 2005- The questionable contribution..) groups ancient Egyptian populations like the Naqada closer to Nubians and Somalis than European, Mediterranean or Middle Eastern populations, and places various Nubians samples closer to Tanzanian, Dahomeian, and Congoid data points than to Europeans and Middle easterners. The limb proportion studies of Zakrzewski (2003) (Zakrzewski, S.R. (2003). "Variation in ancient Egyptian stature and body proportions". American Journal of Physical Anthropology 121 (3): 219-229.) showing the tropical body plan of the ancient Egyptians also undercuts theories of inflowing European or near Eastern colonists, or the 'native Europid' model of Strouhal (1971).
^^^Can you dana?
Posts: 1135 | From: Top secret | Registered: Jun 2012
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This Northern Sudanese boy has wavy hair just like horner brethrens who live in Northeast African dry environments like him.
why would wavy hair be more suited to a dry envirionment than afro-kinky hair?
why are wavy hair people more suited to a desert envirionment than afro-kinky haired people? what is the explanation?
Posts: 42922 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Isn't Kinky hair more suited for moist areas? Why would it be needed in dry areas???
And what do you mean afro-kinky? Are you not aware that kinky hair is not exclusive to Africans but also people like Andaman islanders???? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3SjFgJXMcA
Who btw are not African and also live in a moist type environment.
What is the explanation for that???
Posts: 1135 | From: Top secret | Registered: Jun 2012
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Yet has mainly dark skin with a broad nose. Why is that?
@dana marniche
Terrible comparisons. Thats an Afar...Not an ethnic Somali. And doesn't curly hair look sorta like that when grown out????
Me thinks you think curly hair(in African descent people) grown out is suppose to look like this.
Can you refute this????
Alleged massive influx of Europeans and Middle Easterners to give the ancient peoples hair variation did not happen. Such variation was already in place as part of Africa' built in genetic and phenotypic diversity. As regards diameter, the average diameter of the Semna sample was close to both the Northwest European and East African samples. This again suggests a range of built-in African indigenous variability, and calls into questions various migration theories to the Nile Valley. One study for example (Keita 2005) tested the model of C. Loring Brace (1993) as to the notion of incoming European migrants replacing indigenous peoples of the Nile Valley. Brace's work had also suggested a relationship between northwest Europeans such as Scandanavians and African peoples of the Horn. Data analysis failed to support this model, instead clustering samples much closer to African series than to Europeans. Keita concluded that similarities between African data in his survey (skulls, etc) and non-Africans was not due to gene flow, but a subset of built-in African variability.
Ancient Egyptians cluster much closer to other Egyptians and Nubians. A later study by Brace, (Brace 2005- The questionable contribution..) groups ancient Egyptian populations like the Naqada closer to Nubians and Somalis than European, Mediterranean or Middle Eastern populations, and places various Nubians samples closer to Tanzanian, Dahomeian, and Congoid data points than to Europeans and Middle easterners. The limb proportion studies of Zakrzewski (2003) (Zakrzewski, S.R. (2003). "Variation in ancient Egyptian stature and body proportions". American Journal of Physical Anthropology 121 (3): 219-229.) showing the tropical body plan of the ancient Egyptians also undercuts theories of inflowing European or near Eastern colonists, or the 'native Europid' model of Strouhal (1971).
^^^Can you dana?
Alright - this party is over. I posted a Rahawein Somali and your going to wish him into a Danakil. This is useless. There is no tribe of black Africans i.e. in the Horn or even the Sahel that mostly has curly hair. And the Somali are hardly a good example since some of them are Jabari from much further north with strong recent Arab connections.
Anyway, I'm outta here, because it looks like your idea of curly is a frizzy, AFRO anyway.
And I'm not gettingg into an argument about THAT!
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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Isn't Kinky hair more suited for moist areas? Why would it be needed in dry areas???
And what do you mean afro-kinky? Are you not aware that kinky hair is not exclusive to Africans but also people like Andaman islanders???? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3SjFgJXMcA
Who btw are not African and also live in a moist type environment.
What is the explanation for that???
afro-kinky hair is tightly coiled black hair that most Africans and African Americans have, in other words afros.
Ok, so your are saying that if the selection presure is taken away because hair adapated to moist environments is no longer advatageous, over time hair reverts to wavy or straight hair, an example the wavy or bushy type hair of the kid above. He isn't in a humid environment where he needs moisture to escape his head
Therefore we can tell which people have been living in North Africa, Arabia or the Nubian desert the longest- the ones with wavy or straight hair - not the ones with afros.
It's an interetsing theory but could upset dana
Posts: 42922 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Yet has mainly dark skin with a broad nose. Why is that?
@dana marniche
Terrible comparisons. Thats an Afar...Not an ethnic Somali. And doesn't curly hair look sorta like that when grown out????
Me thinks you think curly hair(in African descent people) grown out is suppose to look like this.
lol! that Sudanese what you also get when you mix Sudanese with Bosnian Turk or white slave woman. Which many Sudanese like the Sudanese basically still have.
And isn't that other one Will Smith's son?!
Pitiful. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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Tah, tah, 'til Wednesday, if ever - my fine Losers. Just don't post any more Dominican looking Sudanese and expect me to believe they didn't get that way through their diverse and partly NON-AFRICAN ancestors.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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Yet has mainly dark skin with a broad nose. Why is that?
^^^ this link was what he is referring to. It's a picture of the bushy haired Sudanese kid in my reply post. He probably didn't include it in his images because the oroignal picture was too big to post. When I posted it I reduced it first
lioness productions timberland boots in the summer to stomp withPosts: 42922 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Yet has mainly dark skin with a broad nose. Why is that?
@dana marniche
Terrible comparisons. Thats an Afar...Not an ethnic Somali. And doesn't curly hair look sorta like that when grown out????
Me thinks you think curly hair(in African descent people) grown out is suppose to look like this.
Can you refute this????
Alleged massive influx of Europeans and Middle Easterners to give the ancient peoples hair variation did not happen. Such variation was already in place as part of Africa' built in genetic and phenotypic diversity. As regards diameter, the average diameter of the Semna sample was close to both the Northwest European and East African samples. This again suggests a range of built-in African indigenous variability, and calls into questions various migration theories to the Nile Valley. One study for example (Keita 2005) tested the model of C. Loring Brace (1993) as to the notion of incoming European migrants replacing indigenous peoples of the Nile Valley. Brace's work had also suggested a relationship between northwest Europeans such as Scandanavians and African peoples of the Horn. Data analysis failed to support this model, instead clustering samples much closer to African series than to Europeans. Keita concluded that similarities between African data in his survey (skulls, etc) and non-Africans was not due to gene flow, but a subset of built-in African variability.
Ancient Egyptians cluster much closer to other Egyptians and Nubians. A later study by Brace, (Brace 2005- The questionable contribution..) groups ancient Egyptian populations like the Naqada closer to Nubians and Somalis than European, Mediterranean or Middle Eastern populations, and places various Nubians samples closer to Tanzanian, Dahomeian, and Congoid data points than to Europeans and Middle easterners. The limb proportion studies of Zakrzewski (2003) (Zakrzewski, S.R. (2003). "Variation in ancient Egyptian stature and body proportions". American Journal of Physical Anthropology 121 (3): 219-229.) showing the tropical body plan of the ancient Egyptians also undercuts theories of inflowing European or near Eastern colonists, or the 'native Europid' model of Strouhal (1971).
^^^Can you dana?
Originally posted by dana marniche:
Anyway, I'm outta here, because it looks like your idea of curly is a frizzy, AFRO anyway. :
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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Its been states that Khoisans have not always lived in Southern Africa, just like West Africans did not always live in West Africa, but somewhere else(Sahara).
@dana marniche
WTF????
Can I please have some of the drugs your smoking.
When the heck have Sudanese people mixed with Turkish people on a large scale??? Stop with the desperation. If anything, any Eurasian admixture would be due to your precious Arabs.
How the heck is that Sudanese boy I posted mixed with Turkish??? http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/2996/1726may307.jpg You're sounding more and more like Mike111. That Sudanese boy most likely lives in an ISOLATED village/area. Stop with the desperation please. And how the heck does he look like a freaking Dominican??? Are you seriously??? Again more desperation. Troll Patrol...Djehuti...Please come check your friend dana. This just shows you know clearly nothing about African diversity.
And no duh that's Will Smiths son, it was to show how curly hair in African descent people looks like. You probably thought it would look like something else.
But again still waiting for you to refute. Alleged massive influx of Europeans and Middle Easterners to give the ancient peoples hair variation did not happen. Such variation was already in place as part of Africa' built in genetic and phenotypic diversity. As regards diameter, the average diameter of the Semna sample was close to both the Northwest European and East African samples. This again suggests a range of built-in African indigenous variability, and calls into questions various migration theories to the Nile Valley. One study for example (Keita 2005) tested the model of C. Loring Brace (1993) as to the notion of incoming European migrants replacing indigenous peoples of the Nile Valley. Brace's work had also suggested a relationship between northwest Europeans such as Scandanavians and African peoples of the Horn. Data analysis failed to support this model, instead clustering samples much closer to African series than to Europeans. Keita concluded that similarities between African data in his survey (skulls, etc) and non-Africans was not due to gene flow, but a subset of built-in African variability.
Ancient Egyptians cluster much closer to other Egyptians and Nubians. A later study by Brace, (Brace 2005- The questionable contribution..) groups ancient Egyptian populations like the Naqada closer to Nubians and Somalis than European, Mediterranean or Middle Eastern populations, and places various Nubians samples closer to Tanzanian, Dahomeian, and Congoid data points than to Europeans and Middle easterners. The limb proportion studies of Zakrzewski (2003) (Zakrzewski, S.R. (2003). "Variation in ancient Egyptian stature and body proportions". American Journal of Physical Anthropology 121 (3): 219-229.) showing the tropical body plan of the ancient Egyptians also undercuts theories of inflowing European or near Eastern colonists, or the 'native Europid' model of Strouhal (1971).
^^^Why can't you??? I have not changed my source/argument. But you keep side stepping. Why?
Still waiting.
Wheres your source? Post sources refuting mines like this...
From Britannica Encyclopedia (1990 ed.)
East African local race, a subgroup, roughly corresponding to a breeding isolate in genetics, of the Negroid (African) geographical race, comprising the populations of East Africa and The Sudan. The physical type of the East African local race is primarily one of adaptation to a hot, dry climate; it is marked by long, thin body build, long, narrow face and nose, and moderate to heavy skin pigmentation. The Sudanese peoples are dark-skinned and extremely tall and thin (linear) in build. The other East African populations are also more or less linear in build and somewhat lighter skinned than the Sudanese. All have dark eyes and dark hair, wavy to frizzy in texture.
Hair also varies in Africa – from the Horn, to the Atlantic to the Cape. Quote: “Extremely "wooly" hair is not the only kind native to tropical Africa." (S. Keita 1993. "Studies and Comments)
^^^^Again where are your sources dana? I'm still waiting.
You're probably one of those people who thinks straight hair in the Australasian Aboriginals is due to some walking Caucasoid white people.
HA!
Posts: 1135 | From: Top secret | Registered: Jun 2012
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Its been states that Khoisans have not always lived in Southern Africa, just like West Africans did not always live in West Africa, but somewhere else(Sahara).
@dana marniche
WTF????
Can I please have some of the drugs your smoking.
When the heck have Sudanese people mixed with Turkish people on a large scale??? Stop with the desperation. If anything, any Eurasian admixture would be due to your precious Arabs.
How the heck is that Sudanese boy I posted mixed with Turkish??? http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/2996/1726may307.jpg You're sounding more and more like Mike111. That Sudanese boy most likely lives in an ISOLATED village/area. Stop with the desperation please. And how the heck does he look like a freaking Dominican??? Are you seriously??? Again more desperation. Troll Patrol...Djehuti...Please come check your friend dana. This just shows you know clearly nothing about African diversity.
And no duh that's Will Smiths son, it was to show how curly hair in African descent people looks like. You probably thought it would look like something else.
But again still waiting for you to refute. Alleged massive influx of Europeans and Middle Easterners to give the ancient peoples hair variation did not happen. Such variation was already in place as part of Africa' built in genetic and phenotypic diversity. As regards diameter, the average diameter of the Semna sample was close to both the Northwest European and East African samples. This again suggests a range of built-in African indigenous variability, and calls into questions various migration theories to the Nile Valley. One study for example (Keita 2005) tested the model of C. Loring Brace (1993) as to the notion of incoming European migrants replacing indigenous peoples of the Nile Valley. Brace's work had also suggested a relationship between northwest Europeans such as Scandanavians and African peoples of the Horn. Data analysis failed to support this model, instead clustering samples much closer to African series than to Europeans. Keita concluded that similarities between African data in his survey (skulls, etc) and non-Africans was not due to gene flow, but a subset of built-in African variability.
Ancient Egyptians cluster much closer to other Egyptians and Nubians. A later study by Brace, (Brace 2005- The questionable contribution..) groups ancient Egyptian populations like the Naqada closer to Nubians and Somalis than European, Mediterranean or Middle Eastern populations, and places various Nubians samples closer to Tanzanian, Dahomeian, and Congoid data points than to Europeans and Middle easterners. The limb proportion studies of Zakrzewski (2003) (Zakrzewski, S.R. (2003). "Variation in ancient Egyptian stature and body proportions". American Journal of Physical Anthropology 121 (3): 219-229.) showing the tropical body plan of the ancient Egyptians also undercuts theories of inflowing European or near Eastern colonists, or the 'native Europid' model of Strouhal (1971).
^^^Why can't you??? I have not changed my source/argument. But you keep side stepping. Why?
Still waiting.
Wheres your source? Post sources refuting mines like this...
From Britannica Encyclopedia (1990 ed.)
East African local race, a subgroup, roughly corresponding to a breeding isolate in genetics, of the Negroid (African) geographical race, comprising the populations of East Africa and The Sudan. The physical type of the East African local race is primarily one of adaptation to a hot, dry climate; it is marked by long, thin body build, long, narrow face and nose, and moderate to heavy skin pigmentation. The Sudanese peoples are dark-skinned and extremely tall and thin (linear) in build. The other East African populations are also more or less linear in build and somewhat lighter skinned than the Sudanese. All have dark eyes and dark hair, wavy to frizzy in texture.
Hair also varies in Africa – from the Horn, to the Atlantic to the Cape. Quote: “Extremely "wooly" hair is not the only kind native to tropical Africa." (S. Keita 1993. "Studies and Comments)
^^^^Again where are your sources dana? I'm still waiting.
You're probably one of those people who thinks straight hair in the Australasian Aboriginals is due to some walking Caucasoid white people.
HA!
Pleasse stop bothering me as you don't know enough about Africa OR ARABIA to be talking about diversity. India is not Africa and Australoids sure as heck aren't descended from holocene Africans.
"It is necessary also to distinguish between the medieval Hadareb (the Bellou) and their modern counterparts so unflatteringly described by 19th century visitors to the Sudan, mainly Arteiga, Ashraf and others, who by then were predominantly Beja by blood, but including also LARGE NUMBERS of half-caste Beja, the result of intermarriage with TURKS, EGYPTIANS, CIRCASSIANS, BOSNIANS, etc..." (A History of the Beja Tribes of Sudan, 1953, p. 64).
Does that look desperate to you. Sorry you chose the wrong challenge this time.
Should have known it was Keita you were using to prove your point. What did I tell you about him. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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Try again. And no duh...Australoids and Andaman Islanders are not African, you would know I said no such thing if you were actually reading and following my post correctly.
My point was.
1. Austrian Aboriginals have similar facial features to the so called true Negros, but yet they have straight hair? Why is that? Its because the Aboriginals always lived in a dry heated environment like Northeast Africans and other Africans. Its that simple.
2. That video of the Andaman islanders wasn't for you but Lioness, because it seems she thinks kinky hair is limited to Africans, but non Africans like those Andaman Islanders and certain groups from the pacific islanders do have kinky hair while not being African.
You seem to be getting frustrated because you know that I am right, especially about wavy/curly hair being a part of the indigenous African adaptation and still can not refute what I posted.
And your source only mentions recent arrivals of Turkish people into Sudan. You still can't explain my that Sudanese boy has very dark skin and broad nose, yet straight hair.
If there was such large scale mixing then why does that boy not have lighter skin and not broad features. Also most mulatto type people usually have curly/kinky type hair, yet that Sudanese boy does not. Not only that, but your source mostly only mentions the Beja.
But anyways, how do you explain this???
Thats women too have some unknown Turkish DNA.
HA!
Posts: 1135 | From: Top secret | Registered: Jun 2012
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posted
lol! Before someone puts you in an INSANE ASYLUM show me another Nuer or Luo or Dinka or whatever she is with straight hair and I'll show you someone with a curling iron. LOL!
Your just too funny. Ha is right! HA, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha ha I can't stop laughing. ha, he he he he he he.
Was she born with orange hair too.lol!
Give me a break, please!lol!
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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2. That video of the Andaman islanders wasn't for you but Lioness, because it seems she thinks kinky hair is limited to Africans, but non Africans like those Andaman Islanders and certain groups from the pacific islanders do have kinky hair while not being African.
You seem to be getting frustrated because you know that I am right, especially about wavy/curly hair being a part of the indigenous African adaptation and still can not refute what I posted.
And your source only mentions recent arrivals of Turkish people into Sudan. You still can't explain my that Sudanese boy has very dark skin and broad nose, yet straight hair.
At least five thousand years ago Egypt was trading in the Red Sea, Southern Arabia, and Yemen, and possibly the Indus valley civilization. To little is known of this early trade between India and Yemen to accurately assess its importance but tantalizing hints indicate some exchange of idea and concrete forms of cultural expression.
Certainly the maritime trade was an important feature of the earliest great empires of ancient Arabia, but by the first millennium BC the Arab sea trade with India was regular feature of the economic life.
India too has a long-standing mercantile connection with Western Arabia, notably Yemen, as a part of the ancient network in the Arabian Sea and in the Indian Ocean.
When the army of Alexander the Great conquered the Island of Socotra, an island off the coast of Somalia, which belongs to the Republic of Yemen, it was reported that Indians were living on that island. The famous work "Periplus of the Erythrean Sea", a first century Greek guide for sailors, mentions Indian ships stopping at Socotra from the east African coast to Yemen on their way to and from India.
Our knowledge of the movement of peoples and goods around the Arab Sea and Southern Arabian, and Yemeni ports is more detailed from the fourth century BC onwards.
There is much evidence of contact between the Middle East, the Yemeni ports and the Indian sub-continent. Yemen supplied Byzantium and Iran with the goods from the Indian Ocean region and Yemeni and Indian traders increased their activity to and from the Indian sub-continent. This commercial interest in turn reinforced the activity of Indian merchants in the Arab Sea, notably, Yemen, who acted as middlemen for Indian trade with the Roman Empire. Ships from Indian ports crossed the Arab Sea, and touched at the ports of Southern Arabia, in particular Aden, and preceded through Bab Al-Mandab and further to Jeddah and Berenice.
Posts: 42922 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
The above debunks your crazy theory. As it is a contradiction.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Son of Ra: Read the source carefully it states wavy hair is APART of African diversity and is due to dry heat adaption and NOT Eurasian. Lol!
why would wavy hair be more suited to a dry envirionment than afro-kinky hair?
why are wavy hair people more suited to a desert envirionment than afro-kinky haired people?
-look at the Khosians for instance
Ambiguous liar, it's not the frist time I have explained this to you. Khosians live in a steppe region. It's a different climate and terrain.
You have never explained why not all Africans have the same equally "kinky" hair?
quote:All human populations exhibit biological variation in one way or another, and there is no single way to be biologically African—not by DNA, skin color, hair form, blood type, or variation of face and nose.
Human Biology
--S. O. Y. Keita, Senior Research Associate, National Human Genome Center, Howard University; Research Associate, Anthropology, Smithsonian Institute
quote: Morphological characteristics ...like skin color, hair form, bone traits, eyes, and lips tend to follow geographic boundaries coinciding often with climatic zones . This is not surprising since the selective forces of climate are probably the primary forces of nature that have shaped human races with regard not only to skin color and hair form but also the underlying bony structures of the nose, cheekbones, etc. (For example, more prominent noses humidify air better.) As far as we know, blood-factor frequencies are not shaped by these same climatic factors
--Gill, George W. Does Race Exist? A Proponent's Perspective. University of Wyoming, 2000
quote:Physical variations in any given trait tend to occur gradually rather than abruptly over geographic areas. And because physical traits are inherited independently of one another, knowing the range of one trait does not predict the presence of others. For example, skin color varies largely from light in the temperate areas in the north to dark in the tropical areas in the south; its intensity is not related to nose shape or hair texture. Dark skin may be associated with frizzy or kinky hair or curly or wavy or straight hair, all of which are found among different indigenous peoples in tropical regions.These facts render any attempt to establish lines of division among biological populations both arbitrary and subjective.
This Northern Sudanese boy has wavy hair just like horner brethrens who live in Northeast African dry environments like him.
^^^^ yes this hair is more similar to this hair >>
quote:Originally posted by Son of Ra:
and less similar to this hair >>
quote:Originally posted by Son of Ra:
Abayad
Of course some random white person in the middle of nowhere can have afro-texture hair. No need for further explanation. But with the African has loose hair it can't be indigenous to the region, despite of the terrain suited for such development .
Dr Spencer Wells, Harvard evolutionary geneticist: There is more genetic diversity in any single African village than in the whole world outside Africa.
Geneticist Sarah Tishkoff: Non-Africans are recently descendant from a small population of East Africans.
quote:
Africa is the birthplace of modern humans, and is the source of the geographic expansion of ancestral populations into other regions of the world.
Indigenous Africans are characterized by high levels of genetic diversity within and between populations. The pattern of genetic variation in these populations has been shaped by demographic events occurring over the last 200,000 years.
The dramatic variation in climate, diet, and exposure to infectious disease across the continent has also resulted in novel genetic and phenotypic adaptations in extant Africans.
This review summarizes some recent advances in our understanding of the demographic history and selective pressures that have influenced levels and patterns of diversity in African populations.
Africa not only has the highest levels of human genetic variation in the world but also contains a considerable amount of linguistic, environmental and cultural diversity. For example, more than 2,000 distinct ethno-linguistic groups, representing nearly a third of the world’s languages, currently exist in Africa
The timing and duration of some of these demographic events were often correlated with known major environmental changes and/or cultural developments in Africa [6].
A number of novel genetic and phenotypic adaptations have also evolved in Africans in response to dramatic variation in environment, diet, and exposure to infectious disease across the continent.
In some cases, these adaptations have occurred in the last several thousand years, exemplifying the ongoing evolution of human populations.
Thus, present-day patterns of variation in African genomes are a product of both demographic and selective events.
--Sarah Tishkoff et al. (2010)
The Evolution of Human Genetic and Phenotypic Variation in AfricaPosts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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This term "ancestry" is a bit complicated. As it can bear many things.
Most likely bottleneck occurrences took place. Otherwise oral traditions would have attested these manifestations of "mass intrusions". Which don't exist. "The explanation by the authors is "indirectly it entered the region". So what?lol
What if just "one" mixed person from the Northern part married someone of these more Southern tribes, and had offspring TMCRA, and so on. lol
I am curious to what these alleles are, "they've found"?
So, how come these "populations" don't have overwhelmingly "straight hair"?
In this way there is also "evidence" of white Americans indirectly having west African ancestry. And probably in East-Central Europe too. If not now, then soon. lol
Topography seems to tell a logical story. Neighboring populations tend to mix more with each other then with those who are further away. This all, is of course dependable on intra-relationships. lol SMH
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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I don't understand why neither Lioness or Dana thinks curly/wavy hair is not apart the native African adaptation.
Posts: 1135 | From: Top secret | Registered: Jun 2012
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quote:Originally posted by Son of Ra: ^^^Thanks for the back up as always TP.
I don't understand why neither Lioness or Dana thinks curly/wavy hair is not apart the native African adaptation.
Lioness is becoming more annoying with each post. Dana, I understand the basis where she is coming from, when she is making this fundamental distinction. But loose hair does exist in Sahara-Sahel regions and is indigenous. As the climate is suited for this situ.
I have spoken on climate and different terrains many times.
All I can say for now is, one has to go to these places themselves to experience what I am explaining. Since text and images did not work.
I find it funny you never see people come and tell this type of stuff to local people, at location, in these particular "countries".
Isn't Kinky hair more suited for moist areas? Why would it be needed in dry areas???
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
So how come these "populations" don't have overwhelmingly "straight hair"?
Topography seems to tell a logical story. Neighboring populations tend to mix more with each other then with those who are further away. This all, is of course dependable on intra-relationships. lol SMH
Isn't Kinky hair more suited for moist areas? Why would it be needed in dry areas???
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
So how come these "populations" don't have overwhelmingly "straight hair"?
Topography seems to tell a logical story. Neighboring populations tend to mix more with each other then with those who are further away. This all, is of course dependable on intra-relationships. lol SMH
As you can see, the coward can't answer. So the coward will use someone else as a shield. Altering someone's post, as a "reply".
However, the question to why Khoisan more have tight kinky hair and are more light skinned, remains unexplained.
This delusional person will post a random white person with "kinky hair texture" next to someone from the same region with bone straight hair. And claim both are local and indigenous.
This is the delusional crooked Eurocentric mind we deal with.
Hence, African populations are very old (thus had more time to adapt to different climates and terrain), European populations are very young.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Son of Ra: ^^^Thanks for the back up as always TP.
I don't understand why neither Lioness or Dana thinks curly/wavy hair is not apart the native African adaptation.
Lioness is becoming more annoying with each post. Dana, I understand the basis where she is coming from, when she is making this fundamental distinction. But loose hair does exist in Sahara-Sahel regions and is indigenous. As the climate is suited for this situ.
I have spoken on climate and different terrains many times.
All I can say for now is, one has to go to these places themselves to experience what I am explaining. Since text and images did not work.
I find it funny you never see people come and tell this type of stuff to local people, at location, in these particular "countries".
Africans like the Tuareg have mixed with loose haired non-African people Troll, so that means it is not "indigenous". name me a tribe in the Sahel where most of the people have "loose" Lank hair. I thank you for your support but I am truly over this conversation. It is too ridiculous.
This is nothing but simple logic i am talking about.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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This Northern Sudanese boy has wavy hair just like horner brethrens who live in Northeast African dry environments like him.
^^^^ yes this hair is more similar to this hair >>
quote:Originally posted by Son of Ra:
and less similar to this hair >>
quote:Originally posted by Son of Ra:
Abayad
Of course some random white person in the middle of nowhere can have afro-texture hair. No need for further explanation. But with the African has loose hair it can't be indigenous to the region, despite of the terrain suited for such development .
Dr Spencer Wells, Harvard evolutionary geneticist: There is more genetic diversity in any single African village than in the whole world outside Africa.
Geneticist Sarah Tishkoff: Non-Africans are recently descendant from a small population of East Africans.
quote:
Africa is the birthplace of modern humans, and is the source of the geographic expansion of ancestral populations into other regions of the world.
Indigenous Africans are characterized by high levels of genetic diversity within and between populations. The pattern of genetic variation in these populations has been shaped by demographic events occurring over the last 200,000 years.
The dramatic variation in climate, diet, and exposure to infectious disease across the continent has also resulted in novel genetic and phenotypic adaptations in extant Africans.
This review summarizes some recent advances in our understanding of the demographic history and selective pressures that have influenced levels and patterns of diversity in African populations.
Africa not only has the highest levels of human genetic variation in the world but also contains a considerable amount of linguistic, environmental and cultural diversity. For example, more than 2,000 distinct ethno-linguistic groups, representing nearly a third of the world’s languages, currently exist in Africa
The timing and duration of some of these demographic events were often correlated with known major environmental changes and/or cultural developments in Africa [6].
A number of novel genetic and phenotypic adaptations have also evolved in Africans in response to dramatic variation in environment, diet, and exposure to infectious disease across the continent.
In some cases, these adaptations have occurred in the last several thousand years, exemplifying the ongoing evolution of human populations.
Thus, present-day patterns of variation in African genomes are a product of both demographic and selective events.
--Sarah Tishkoff et al. (2010)
The Evolution of Human Genetic and Phenotypic Variation in Africa
I guess there must not be any descendants of mixed people on this site. The girl has some ancestors with straight hair that doesn't mean it was "indigenous".
It is not even science it is common observation. Mixed people often have hair that is between European and African. When you find me an entire black tribe like that in either Africa or Arabia then you can talk to me about it.
God almighty. I can't believe people are even having this conversation and trying to use science to justify it. Science in the west I guess can be use and interpreted to JUSTIFY ANYTHING!
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
If you mix a very black person with a white what else are they going to look like, but this. I have plenty of people in my family with this kind of hair as do millions of other black people who are the result of relatively recent admixture.
If most of the people in this man's tribe ARE NOT straight haired what DOES THAT MEAN. SON?!
If anything these pictures are showing how black these INDIVIDUALS' ancestors were for them to still be born dark- skinned and have straightish hair.
If people can not comprehend that than I GIVE UP and its a wonder black Africans have had their HERITAGE taken away.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
WOULD SOMEBODY PLEASE SHOW OR NAME ME A BLACK PEOPLE IN AFRICA WITH MOSTLY STRAIGHT HAIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!BEFORE I GO CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!lol!
-------------------- D. Reynolds-Marniche Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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