AS I am ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that genetics have shown Ethiopians and Ancient Egyptians and FULANI, NUBIANS, Beja and other BLACKS have had intermixture of some sort with Levant people FAR EARLIER THAN THIS.
No proof of this and the info i mention about it and others have is in past posts.Of course Some j did come in early egypt an other euro-asian dna,but most of the dna in egypt was of african origin of course.
quote: I must have missed something Djehuti What genes confirm that by 1000 BC Ethiopians got Levant genes from fair skinned Arabian people. You will have to explain this matter to me matter of factly. [Smile]
It true. It's is gene- The P56 marker arab,and later this one The P58 arab marker,but you ignored the info. Early white arab admixture into ethiopia for some.
EDITED-
quote:Originally posted by Firewall: I still largely disagree with and you mixing some facts with incorrect info but anyway everything i had to say i said already above.
The first arabs and hebrews were just not black.
The facts and dna info speak for themselves above and even Djehuti just posted the info recently here and lioness before.
Oh,and yes the first folks in persia were black,that does not mean the original ethnic persians were black because the native folks there never called themselves persians even if the later lived in country called persia later because of white invaders.
So there is nothing left for me to say here but i may come back maybe from time to time because this thread is sometimes entertaining. Peace.
quote:Originally posted by Firewall: I still largely disagree with and you mixing some facts with incorrect info but anyway everything i had to say i said already above.
The first arabs and hebrews were just not black.
The facts and dna info speak for themselves above and even Djehuti just posted the info recently here and lioness before.
Oh,and yes the first folks in persia were black,that does not mean the original ethnic persians were black because the native folks there never called themselves persians even if the later lived in country called persia later because of white invaders.
So there is nothing left for me to say here but i may come back maybe from time to time because this thread is sometimes entertaining. Peace.
And now that you are back so soon and mention it AGAIN - yes the first Persians called themselves Dahae ans Faras from the ancient Arabs of Dzahhakk and brother Akk (Azd) and the Arab looking Achaenenids came from them not the later fairer-skinned Scythians - just as was intimated by the later Central Asians themselves.
“Shem's third son was Aswad, who begot Ahwaz and Pahlii, of whom the latter begot Pars…. From the Tarikh - Guzida or Select History of Hamdullah Mustawfi al Qazwini b. 1281 AD
quote: I must have missed something Djehuti What genes confirm that by 1000 BC Ethiopians got Levant genes from fair skinned Arabian people. You will have to explain this matter to me matter of factly.
It true. It's is gene- The P56 marker arab,and later this one The P58 arab marker,but you ignored the info. Early white arab admixture into ethiopia for some.
OH,AND WHAT I SAID ABOUT THE PERSIANS IS THE FACTS. PEACE.
Posts: 2560 | From: Somewhere | Registered: May 2012
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quote: I must have missed something Djehuti What genes confirm that by 1000 BC Ethiopians got Levant genes from fair skinned Arabian people. You will have to explain this matter to me matter of factly.
It true. It's is gene- The P56 marker arab,and later this one The P58 arab marker,but you ignored the info. Early white arab admixture into ethiopia for some.
OH,AND WHAT I SAID ABOUT THE PERSIANS IS THE FACTS. PEACE.
Back so soon? The earliest or first to be called Persians, Moors, Egyptians, Nubians, Semites, Hamites, Japhetites, and Olmecs i.e. favorites of teh Gods were black with kinky hair.
Have fun!
btw - if this P56 marker is originally from the fair skinned Levant populations than it is not an Arab marker. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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Back so soon? The earliest Persians, Moors, Egyptians, Nubians, Semites, Hamites, Japhetites and Olmecs were black. Have fun.
What could i say?you could be addictive sometimes. It like eating candy,sometimes it hard to stop.
Early blacks in persia?yes but they were not persians. Early Moors were black?yes. Nubians black?yes. EARLY SEMITES?YES HAMITES BLACK?YES,BUT WHATEVER,I DO NOT USE THE TERM.
Japhetites?
QUOTE- The term has been used in modern times as a designation in physical anthropology, ethnography and comparative linguistics. In anthropology, it was used in a racial sense for "white people" (the Caucasian race). In linguistics it was used as a term for the Indo-European languages. These uses are now mostly obsolete. In a linguistic sense, only the Semitic peoples still form a well-defined phylum. The Indo-European group is not now known as "Japhetite" and the group formerly referred to as Hamitic is not now recognized as monophyletic within Afro-Asiatic.
______ Olmecs BLACK? Some,but mostly blacks from asia,that'swhy african dna is found in some of them,it's asian dna but i think most were black,most likely it was a shared civilization,native american and native american of black asian origin.
I DO NOT REALLY USE THOSETERM FROM THE BIBLE BY THE WAY,AND THE BIBLE HAS TOO contradictions.So i do not use the bible for history.
quote:
btw - if this P56 marker is originally from the fair skinned Levant populations than it is not an Arab marker. [Wink]
Yes it was or it was white in origin,let's but it that way.
Back so soon? The earliest Persians, Moors, Egyptians, Nubians, Semites, Hamites, Japhetites and Olmecs were black. Have fun.
What could i say?you could be addictive sometimes. It like eating candy,sometimes it hard to stop.
Early blacks in persia?yes but they were not persians. Early Moors were black?yes. Nubians black?yes. EARLY SEMITES?YES HAMITES BLACK?YES,BUT WHATEVER,I DO NOT USE THE TERM.
Japhetites?
QUOTE- The term has been used in modern times as a designation in physical anthropology, ethnography and comparative linguistics. In anthropology, it was used in a racial sense for "white people" (the Caucasian race). In linguistics it was used as a term for the Indo-European languages. These uses are now mostly obsolete. In a linguistic sense, only the Semitic peoples still form a well-defined phylum. The Indo-European group is not now known as "Japhetite" and the group formerly referred to as Hamitic is not now recognized as monophyletic within Afro-Asiatic.
______ Olmecs BLACK? Some,but mostly blacks from asia,that'swhy african dna is found in some of them,it's asian dna but i think most were black,most likely it was a shared civilization,native american and native american of black asian origin.
I DO NOT REALLY USE THOSETERM FROM THE BIBLE BY THE WAY,AND THE BIBLE HAS TOO contradictions.So i do not use the bible for history.
quote:
btw - if this P56 marker is originally from the fair skinned Levant populations than it is not an Arab marker. [Wink]
Yes it was.
Thanks. Oh,and peace.
The word black isn't bad. Only in your culture.
Lol! you are the addicted one that is why you can't stop responding.
Hope you enjoyed your holiday! Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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Back so soon? The earliest Persians, Moors, Egyptians, Nubians, Semites, Hamites, Japhetites and Olmecs were black. Have fun.
What could i say?you could be addictive sometimes. It like eating candy,sometimes it hard to stop.
Early blacks in persia?yes but they were not persians. Early Moors were black?yes. Nubians black?yes. EARLY SEMITES?YES HAMITES BLACK?YES,BUT WHATEVER,I DO NOT USE THE TERM.
Japhetites?
QUOTE- The term has been used in modern times as a designation in physical anthropology, ethnography and comparative linguistics. In anthropology, it was used in a racial sense for "white people" (the Caucasian race). In linguistics it was used as a term for the Indo-European languages. These uses are now mostly obsolete. In a linguistic sense, only the Semitic peoples still form a well-defined phylum. The Indo-European group is not now known as "Japhetite" and the group formerly referred to as Hamitic is not now recognized as monophyletic within Afro-Asiatic.
______ Olmecs BLACK? Some,but mostly blacks from asia,that'swhy african dna is found in some of them,it's asian dna but i think most were black,most likely it was a shared civilization,native american and native american of black asian origin.
I DO NOT REALLY USE THOSETERM FROM THE BIBLE BY THE WAY,AND THE BIBLE HAS TOO contradictions.So i do not use the bible for history.
quote:
btw - if this P56 marker is originally from the fair skinned Levant populations than it is not an Arab marker. [Wink]
Yes it was.
Thanks. Oh,and peace.
The word black isn't bad. Only in your culture, maybe!
And of course Olmecs ended up being mixed Asian (probably Japanese or east Asian) and African people after a while, much like the Arabs are now African Asian . They comprised and evolved into the later Mayans.
Sorry if that hurts some people. It doesn't take away Native heritage!
Lol! you are the addicted one. That is why you can't stop responding.
Hope you enjoyed your holiday, Eide Mubarak! Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
No the word black is not bad,i never said that.
I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT MAYAN INFO BY THE WAY,I WILL LET SOMEELSE RESPOND TO THAT ONE,BUT IT'S CLEAR THAT THE FIRST ARABS WERE NOT BLACK.YOU COULD GO BACK AND READ MY PAST RECENT POSTS.
quote:
Lol! you are the addicted one that is why you can't stop responding.
quote:Originally posted by Firewall: No the word black is not bad,i never said that.
I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT MAYAN INFO BY THE WAY,I WILL LET SOMEELSE RESPOND TO THAT ONE,BUT IT'S CLEAR THAT THE FIRST ARABS WERE NOT BLACK.YOU COULD GO BACK AND READ MY PAST RECENT POSTS.
quote:
Lol! you are the addicted one that is why you can't stop responding.
I JUST SAID you are sometimes like candy.
Peace.
Ummm! When you told me the Qahtan were pre-Arab you lost me and all hope. Because any Arabian will tell you Qahtan equals "Arab of the Arabs". And both Qahtan/Arab and their descendants - the original northern Arabs were the first and last of the Arabs. You are expressing your hopes and wishes. And thats not candy. unlike you I'm not responding to candy as what you are giving is more like sour grapes.
Oh, well.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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"Banu Kinanah (also Bani Kinanah) (Arabic: بنو كنانة) (Arabic: بني كنانة) are the largest Mudhari Adnanite tribe of western Saudi Arabia in Hejaz and Tihama. They are descended from Kinanah, who was a grandson of Ilyas (known as Elijah in Jewish and Christian traditions) who was named after the prophet Elijah. Their history goes back to pre-Hijrah times.
Kinanah (or Kinana) was an ancestor of the Prophet Muhammad:..." brought to you by Wikipedia Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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I must have missed something Djehuti What genes confirm that by 1000 BC Ethiopians got Levant genes from fair skinned Arabian people. You will have to explain this matter to me matter of factly.
It's right above in the article you just quoted me on. The allele is SLC24A5 that help codes for lighter skin, also there are associated SNP haplotypes derived associated with it. I don't have the full study but it is discussed in the very thread I linked above.
quote:AS I am ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that genetics have shown Ethiopians and Ancient Egyptians and FULANI, NUBIANS, Beja and other BLACKS have had intermixture of some sort with Levant people FAR EARLIER THAN THIS.
The study I cited said no such thing since it only deals with Ethiopians. The Egyptians no doubt as they were right next to the Levant though I don't know about Nubians or Beja and definitely not the Fulani who still lived all the way in west Africa during that time.
quote:That doesn't mean there was a population of nay significance of white ARABS in Arabia. Sorry if I am missing something here.
It didn't say anything specifically about 'white' people, though there were folks with relatively lighter skin in Arabia. The skeletal record in ancient times already shows a presence of non-tropical or colder adapted folks so it is not far fetched. As for just how "significant" their population is, I don't know.
quote:That doesn't mean there was a population of nay significance of white ARABS in Arabia. Sorry if I am missing something here.
My point exactly. This shows that Arabia was NOT "all" black during that time and that there were tribes of non-indigenes from the north that infiltrated the peninsula.
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posted
I am not going to respond to the candy and sour grape comments because we getting of topic. I will be the bigger person and let it go. Let's get back to business.
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: The word "Arab" as conceived of today is a primarily a nationality born of Middle Eastern politics that is not reflective or related to what was meant in the ancient and early Islamic world when it was used in an ethnic context almost exclusively for black populations in Arabia - so why use it. I always try to utilize the word Arabian or Afro-Arabian rather than "Arab".
It looks like dana in your past reply YOU AGREE WITH ME AFTER ALL. ABOUT WHAT IS A ARAB. I THINK THERE IS MISUNDERSTANDING GOING HERE. You said it yourself here,that native blacks are not arabs but arabians,and THEY never called themeselves arabs.They had thier own names and could be under the umbrella term arabian. Arabian and arab are two different things and the true arabs,the white ones are trying to steal native arabian
history and should not be allowed to get away with it. That was my point all along. SO you agree with me before. The nativegroup is not arab,but arabian. That was my point,thanks for saying in past or above. You made you self really clear there.
There is disagreement however on when did the white arab came in arabia and yemen? They came Early not later.
Djehuti -
quote: It didn't say anything specifically about 'white' people, though there were folks with relatively lighter skin in Arabia. The skeletal record in ancient times already shows a presence of non-tropical or colder adapted folks so it is not far fetched. As for just how "significant" their population is, I don't know.
Djehuti -
quote: My point exactly. This shows that
Arabia was NOT "all" black during that time and that there were tribes of non-indigenes from the north that infiltrated the peninsula.
posted
Sabaeans were not arabs,they were arabian,just like you said. Anyway when you mention this group Qahtan,it almost reminds me of this group or name Qatabanian. So sorry i was not paying attention,and you got me there,but i got you with your past comments above.
Of course this is not a gotcha game,and we should help each other out when mistakes happen.
Anyway back to the point. One is arab,and the other was pre-arab,or arabian. The true or original natives of the arabian peninsula.
SO we kinda saying the same thing. I think overall on this we are on the same basic page if you still believe in your past comments from another thread that i posted above.
Arabs. Qahtanite The terms Qahtanite and Qahtani (Arabic: قحطا ن ; transliterated: Qahtan or Qaḥ ṭān or Kahtan) refer to one of the main groups of Arab peoples either originating in, or claiming genealogical descent from the southern extent of the Arabian Peninsula, especially from Yemen.
Arabians. One of the four better-documented languages of the Old South Arabian (or "Ṣayhadic") sub-group of South Semitic, Qatabānian (or Qatabānic) was spoken mainly but not exclusively in the kingdom of Qatabän,located in central Yemen. The language is attested between 500 BC and 200 AD. Some two thousand inscriptions are known written in the Ancient South Arabian Monumental Script, known as Musnad. These inscriptions are mainly found in Wādī Bayhān and Wādī Ḥārib to the south-east of Ma'rib, and from the plateau to the south of that area. Qatabanian inscriptions increase after the beginning of the 4th century BC when the Sabaeans ceased to dominate the area, and Qatabān became an independent kingdom. Qatabanian was spoken in an area across the kingdom of Qatabān as far asJabal al-'Awd (near Zafar) in the southwest, and if we are to believe the Greek and Latin writers, it went as far as Bāb al-Mandab on the Red Sea. At the end of the 2nd century AD, Saba' and Ḥaḑramawt finally defeated Qatabān, and the inscriptions ended.
Posts: 2560 | From: Somewhere | Registered: May 2012
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quote:Originally posted by Firewall: Right. Oh and i added a few more things in my above post.
OK and edited - so do 98 percent of the Negroes in America so what does that make them.
Oh i did see this. Black of course but there are few that do not look black and many of these types are not calling themselves black anyway.
If look black you black,with admixture or not.
Has for AA AND WHITE ADMIXTURE, Well 98% is too high,i think it's about at most 80-70%,of course not counting recent blacks from africa and some other places so the number will go down.
Lamin mentions in past post it's not even that high. That another topic.
Keep in mind a few nubians are not
black or black looking. I seen there picture before.
_______________
Back to the topic.
Has for nubians and beja in the link below it's said that euro-asian came later or recent in sudan.
Northern nubia i do not know, since the dna info is for the lower nubia region IN egypt but it's not broken into ethnic groups and modern nubians or a large number of them in egypt live in upper egypt and some in lower egypt.
Egypt is not has detailed or has clear has sudan. Sudan or researchers have done a better job in sudan then egypt went to comes to dna info.
Maybe they hope that original sudanese were white and to claim ancient egypt has white too. That's why there so much more detailed dna info east africa then egypt.
Djehuti has a point on this,but i made this point a long time ago before i even came here.
They hope to claim all east africa down to southern africa and other parts of africa has originally caucasian.
Of course they failed.
Dna info for Modern egypt.
Dna info for ancient and modern sudan.
Genetic Patterns of Y-chromosome and Mitochondrial DNA Variation, with Implications to the Peopling of the Sudan
posted
My point still stands when it comes to hebrews from my past post.
Has for the Nabataeans.
It seem that they were arabs.
The the first folks there were arabians but i do not think they ever called themselves Nabataeans.
THE info says below they were true arab,so could be not native or arabian and to me a true arab is not native to arabia.
The Nabataeans, also Nabateans (Arabic: الأنبا ط al-ʾAnbāṭ), were ancient people who inhabited the Southern Levant, their settlements in CE 37 – c. 100, gave the name of Nabatene to the borderland between Arabia and Syria, from the Euphrates to the Red Sea. Their loosely-controlled trading network, which centered on strings of oases that they controlled, where agriculture was intensively practiced in limited areas, and on the routes that linked them, had no securely defined boundaries in the surrounding desert. Trajan conquered the Nabataean kingdom, annexing it to the Roman Empire, where their individual culture, easily identified by their characteristic finely-potted painted ceramics, became dispersed in the general Greco-Roman culture and was eventually lost.
Origins The Nabataeans had already some tincture of foreign culture when they first appear in history. That culture was Aramaic; they wrote a letter to Antigonus in Syriac letters, and Aramaic continued to be the language of their coins and inscriptions when the tribe grew into a kingdom, and profited by the decay of the Seleucids to extend its borders northward over the more fertile country east of the Jordan. They occupied Hauran, and in about 85 BC their king Aretas III became lord of Damascus and Coele-Syria. Nabataeans became the Arabic name for Aramaeans, whether in Syria or Iraq, a fact which was thought to show that the Nabataeans were originally Aramaean immigrants from Babylonia. Proper names on their inscriptions suggest that they were true Arabs who had come under Aramaic influence. Starcky identifies the Nabatu of southern Arabia (Pre-Khalan migration) as their ancestors. However different groups amongst the Nabataeans wrote their names in slightly different ways, consequently archeologists are reluctant to say that they were all the same tribe, or that any one group is the original Nabataeans.
Various native homelands were suggested for the Nabataeans, such as Northern Arabia and the North-East of the Arabian peninsula, based on a probable similarity between the names of deities which were worshiped in those areas, and some similarities between the inscriptions of some other Arab groups who inhabited the southern half of ancient Mesopotamia.
I hope that helps. Posts: 2560 | From: Somewhere | Registered: May 2012
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History The ancient Sabaean Kingdom established power in the early 1st millennium BC. It was conquered, in the 1st century BC, by the Ḥ imyarites. After the disintegration of the first Himyarite Kingdom of the Kings of Saba' and Dhū Raydān, the Middle Sabaean Kingdom reappeared in the early 2nd century. The Sabaean kingdom was finally conquered by the Ḥimyarites in the late 3rd century and at that time the capital was Ma'rib. It was located along the strip of desert called Ṣayhad by medieval Arab geographers, which is now named Ramlat al-Sab`atayn.
The Sabaean people were South Arabian people. Each of these had regional kingdoms in ancient Yemen, with the Minaeans in the north in Wādī al-Jawf, the Sabeans on the south western tip, stretching from the highlands to the sea, the Qatabānians to the east of them and the Ḥaḑramites east of them.
The Sabaeans, like the other Yemenite kingdoms of the same period, were involved in the extremely lucrative spice trade, especially frankincense and myrrh.
They left behind many inscriptions in the monumental Musnad (Old South Arabian) alphabet, as well as numerous documents in the cursive Zabūr script.
_________ See they had a script called south arabian,not arabic.
Nabataeans. Getting back to this part. So for above the true arab part could mean or could interpreted has native arabian. If that's the case then most of the Nabataeans could have been black.
Folks and scholars seem to get the two mixed up,arab and arabian.
They have called on tv the queen of sheba a arab. Meaning- not black
She was arabian, a sabean,a true native, not a arab.
Quote- Starcky identifies the Nabatu of southern Arabia (Pre-Khalan migration) as their ancestors. However different groups amongst the Nabataeans wrote their names in slightly different ways, consequently archeologists are reluctant to say that they were all the same tribe, or that any one group is the original Nabataeans.
_______
It looks like they could have been from varied origins,the south,northeast, north etc.. A mixture of arabian and arabs. So it's not clear who was the major group by the time the civilization came about there,But AGAIN it's said that they are true arabs so that WOULD MEAN TO most were not black or arabian.
So i will not go that much further with that one. Others could say what's going on there.
I WOULD like see the dna info of course to get a good idea.
Posts: 2560 | From: Somewhere | Registered: May 2012
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posted
Firewall - first of all. the word Qataban and Qahtan are not the same. The word Qataban however has been linked by certain scholars to the Qataa' or Qudaa' tribe of Himyarites who like the Kahlan and other tribes came from the Qahtan.
The word Arab according to most sources comes from the ancestor YARAB or Yarub bin Yashjub bin Qahtan. That is why the majority of historians refer to the Qahtan people as Aab of the Arabs.
I HOPE THAT HELPS!
Qahtan is a generic name traditionally for the ancient Sabaeans an Afro-Arabian people that later settled in the north becoming known as the Nabataeans or Kedar or Adnanites. These people settled in Syria as well and that is how they THE SYRIANS came to adopt their language and become known as Aramaeans.
The original "Aram" land of THE ARABS however was in the far south and had nothing to do with Syria and Lebanon. Let us not also confuse the later Roman or half-Roman inhabitants of Nabataean area with the true Nabataean an Arab people who looked like other Arabs who were not mixed with Syrians or Romans.
When I am talking about Arab I am making a distinction from people who just SPEAK ARABIC and the original ARABS who trace their origin without exception from Qahtan and from whom the Adnanites in fact descended.
When I speak of Nabataean I am speaking of the original group of people for which the word Nabit came to mean black just like the Syrian al- Dhahabi SAID!
The original Nabataean or Nebaoith as they are called in the Biblical book of Genesis were related to Dumah (Adummatu/Thamud and Kedar and Tema or Tayma etc the latter having been the village of the TAYYI.
All of these folks also known as Kedar in late Hebraic sources were considered black, just as the Syrians considered them black.
The present black Haweit'at of Jordan and Petra still claim descent from the Nabataeans or Nabit for which reason the name NABIT HAD COME TO MEAN BLACK.
We know from the skeletal evidence what time the Levant non-Arab people came into Arabia. The original ARABS and the peoples of Nubia and the Horn were THE SAME!
Now if you or anyone else will be kind and lucky enough to please give me the name of one major or minor Arab tribe LIVING TODAY that was not originally referred to as BLACK!
And I will be happy to show you the way they were originally described with the bibliographical source.
Otherwise, as with the BERBERS - you are WASTING MY TIME.
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Now I'd say here is some real eye candy for you. :)lol!
Is this Hijazi man of the tall muscular (obviously) Hawaziin (Rabi'a) Arabs a "non-black" (probable descendant from Ubaid neolithic giants of the Eridu MESOPOTAMIAN civilization)?!
OK - if you say so. After all, black is in the eye of the beholder. It was painted from real life in the 19th century by an Austrian artist, if I'm remembering correctly, visiting Hijaz.
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I must have missed something Djehuti What genes confirm that by 1000 BC Ethiopians got Levant genes from fair skinned Arabian people. You will have to explain this matter to me matter of factly.
It's right above in the article you just quoted me on. The allele is SLC24A5 that help codes for lighter skin, also there are associated SNP haplotypes derived associated with it. I don't have the full study but it is discussed in the very thread I linked above.
quote:AS I am ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that genetics have shown Ethiopians and Ancient Egyptians and FULANI, NUBIANS, Beja and other BLACKS have had intermixture of some sort with Levant people FAR EARLIER THAN THIS.
The study I cited said no such thing since it only deals with Ethiopians. The Egyptians no doubt as they were right next to the Levant though I don't know about Nubians or Beja and definitely not the Fulani who still lived all the way in west Africa during that time.
quote:That doesn't mean there was a population of nay significance of white ARABS in Arabia. Sorry if I am missing something here.
It didn't say anything specifically about 'white' people, though there were folks with relatively lighter skin in Arabia. The skeletal record in ancient times already shows a presence of non-tropical or colder adapted folks so it is not far fetched. As for just how "significant" their population is, I don't know.
quote:That doesn't mean there was a population of nay significance of white ARABS in Arabia. Sorry if I am missing something here.
My point exactly. This shows that Arabia was NOT "all" black during that time and that there were tribes of non-indigenes from the north that infiltrated the peninsula.
During what time and what tribes of non-indigenes are you talking about, Djehuti and where did they go? What skeletal record shows fairr-skinned people in Arabia, or wherever your suggesting. We have to be careful when we are claiming things especially without sources. Where did they go and when? I'm not saying they didn't mind you but you are speaking as if you have some proof of non-black tribes in Arabia at 1000BC. And why would they be non-indigenes if they were a "tribe" that infiltrated so early.
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Quote- In modern Saudi Arabia, the original Arabs (the Black ones) have been relegated to the deserts and the tribal areas in the south at the Yemeni boarder. The preponderance of haplogroup "J" in the Saudi Arabian DNA, suggests that these areas were purposefully avoided or severely under-represented when doing the DNA survey. For it is extremely unlikely that these Qahtan and Wayla tribesmen from the Najran area, close to the border with Yemen, would be of haplogroup "J".
Still the use of the word arab is not native and the real arab are the invaders.
Or you look at it this way,they are arabized arabians if they really came from the south and many do not look black by the way,so that tells something.
Posts: 2560 | From: Somewhere | Registered: May 2012
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posted
The terms Qahtanite and Qahtani (Arabic: قحطان; transliterated: Qahtan or Qaḥṭān or Kahtan) refer to one of the main groups of Arab peoples either originating in, or claiming genealogical descent from the southern extent of the Arabian Peninsula, especially from Yemen.
The Qahtani people are divided into the two sub-groups of Himyar and Kahlan, with the Himyar branch as Himyarites and the Kahlan branch as Kahlanis. Another dominant group among the Arab people are variously known as Adnan, Ma'add or Nizar.
Arab tradition maintains that a semi-legendary ancestral figure named Qahtan and his 24 sons are the progenitors of the southern inhabitants of the Arabian peninsula known as Qahtani.
Early Islamic historians identified Qahtan with the Yoqtan (Joktan) son of Eber of the Hebrew Bible (Gen. 10:25-29).[citation needed]
Among the sons of Qahtan are noteworthy figures like A'zaal (believed by Arabs to have been the original name of Sana'a, although its current name has been attested since the Iron Age) and Hadhramaut. Another son is Ya'rub, and his son Yashjub is the father of 'Abd Shams, who is also called Saba. All Yemeni tribes trace their ancestry back to this "Saba", either through Himyar or Kahlan, his two sons.
The Qahtani people are divided into the two sub-groups of Himyar and Kahlan, who represent the settled Arabs of the south and their nomadic kinsmen (nomads). The Kahlan division of Qahtan consists of 4 subgroups: the Ta' or Tayy, the Azd group which invaded Oman, the 'Amila-Judham group of Palestine, and the Hamdan-Madhhij group who mostly remain in Yemen.
The Kahlan branch includes the following tribes:Azd ( Aus and Khazraj, Bariq, Ghassan, Khuza'a and Daws), Hamdan, Khath'am, Bajflah, Madhhij, Murad, Zubaid and Nakh', Ash'ar, Lakhm and Kindah.
__________ Sounds like this group connected thier genealogical to the south. A made up genealogical to steal arabian history They are invaders and not true arabians these are arabs
Himyarite are the early arab invaders of the region has well it seems that settled in the south or these became arabized folks when the whites came in and took over theregion of time,either way.
Arabs are the invaders dana.
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5. The Arab genealogies were written over 2000 years after the birth of Ishmael, and they did not have reliable genealogies past Muhammad’s forefather Adnan.
# Genealogical information was so scarce and unreliable that Muhammad needed a “revelation” to find out he was from Mudar
True arab or whatever,Arabs are the invaders dana. There is no way to get around this. Posts: 2560 | From: Somewhere | Registered: May 2012
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So the they were not black,of course you may have had some arabized blacks in this civilization.
The meaning true arab MEANS invaders.The Qahtan were the early white invaders of southern arabia.These are whites that became known has arab first,that's why they are called true arabs. Some of the blacks came into this group these arabian nativees became apart of the the true arabs. Any black in this group were the first that became arabized. This groups conqured or arabized the northern white invaders of arabia called Adnanite .
Qahtan and Adnanite are the white invaders of arabia and the former was the first to try steal or hook thier history to southern arabia/or yemen.
Yes it could be confusing and hard to take for some,but this looks like the case from what i interpreted.
Qahtan: thin face and slender body and of medium height
posted
The term arab did not come from southern arabia or the native there.
Himyarite were arabs not arabian,of course there were s blacks living in the kingdom because the southern part was conqured by these invaders.
These were nomads,the blacks of southern arabia were not nomads.Some of invaders THAT CAME TO THE SOUTH became civilized TO A POINT because of the blacks in yemen.
Etymology The earliest documented use of the word "Arab" to refer to a people appears in the Monolith Inscription, an Akkadian language record of the 9th century BC Assyrian Conquest of Syria (Arabs had formed part of a coalition of forces opposed to Assyria). Listed among the booty captured by the army of king Shalmaneser III of Assyria in the Battle of Qarqar are 1000 camels of "Gi-in-di-bu'u the ar-ba-a-a" or "[the man] Gindibu belonging to the ʕarab" (ar-ba-a-a being an adjectival nisba of the noun ʕarab).
The most popular Arab account holds that the word 'Arab' came from an eponymous father called Yarab, who was supposedly the first to speak Arabic. Al-Hamdani had another view; he states that Arabs were called GhArab (West in Semitic) by Mesopotamians because Arabs resided to the west of Mesopotamia; the term was then corrupted into Arab. Yet another view is held by Al-Masudi that the word Arabs was initially applied to the Ishmaelites of the "Arabah" valley.
In Biblical etymology, "Arab" (in Hebrew Arvi {{he:ערבי}}) comes both from the desert origin of the people (Arava means wilderness) and/or from the concept of mixed people (Arev-rav - a large group of mixed people). The root a-r-b several additional meanings in Semitic languages including "west/sunset," "desert," "mingle," "merchant," "raven" and are "comprehensible" with all of these having varying degrees of relevance to the emergence of the name. It is also possible that some forms were metathetical from ʿ-B-R "moving around" (Arabic ʿ-B-R "traverse"), and hence, it is alleged, "nomadic."
Identity The early Arabs were the tribes of Northern Arabia speaking proto Arabic dialects. Although since early days other people became Arabs through an Arabization process that could mean intermarriage with Arabs, adopting the Arabic language and culture, or both. For example, the Ghassanids and the Lakhmids which originated from Southern Semitic speaking Yemen made a major contribution in the creation of the Arabic language. The same process happened all over the Arab world after the spread of Islam by the mixing of Arabs with several other peoples. The Arab cultures went through a mixing process. Therefore every Arab country has cultural specificities which constitute a cultural mix which also originate in local novelties achieved after the arabization took place. However, all Arab countries do also share a common culture in most Aspects: Arts (music, literature, poetry, calligraphy...), Cultural products (Handicrafts, carpets, henne, bronze carving...), Social behaviour and relations (Hospitality, codes of conduct among friends and family...), Customs and superstitions, Some dishes (Shorba, Mloukhia), Traditional clothing, Architecture...
# Genealogical: someone who can trace his or her ancestry to the tribes of Arabia – the original inhabitants of the Arabian Peninsula – and the Syrian Desert. This was the definition used in medieval times, for example by Ibn Khaldun, but has decreased in importance over time, as a portion of those of Arab ancestry lost their links with their ancestors' motherland. In the modern era, however, DNA tests have at times proved reliable in identifying those of Arab genealogical descent. For example, it has been found that the frequency of the "Arab marker" Haplogroup J1 collapses suddenly at the borders of Arabic speaking countries.
Semitic origin There is a consensus that the Semitic peoples originated from Arabian peninsula. It should be pointed out that these settlers were not Arabs or Arabic speakers.
Early history The first written attestation of the ethnonym "Arab" occurs in an Assyrian inscription of 853 BCE, where Shalmaneser III lists a King Gindibu of mâtu arbâi (Arab land) as among the people he defeated at the Battle of Karkar. Some of the names given in these texts are Aramaic, while others are the first attestations of Ancient North Arabian dialects. In fact several different ethnonyms are found in Assyrian texts that are conventionally translated "Arab": Arabi, Arubu, Aribi and Urbi.
The relation of ʿarab and ʾaʿrāb is complicated further by the notion of "lost Arabs" al-ʿArab al-ba'ida mentioned in the Qur'an as punished for their disbelief. All contemporary Arabs were considered as descended from two ancestors, Qahtan and Adnan.
Versteegh (1997) is uncertain whether to ascribe this distinction to the memory of a real difference of origin of the two groups, but it is certain that the difference was strongly felt in early Islamic times. Even in Islamic Spain there was enmity between the Qays of the northern and the Kalb of the southern group. The so-called Sabaean or Himyarite language described by Abū Muhammad al-Hasan al-Hamdānī (died 946) appears to be a special case of language contact between the two groups, an originally north Arabic dialect spoken in the south, and influenced by Old South Arabian.[citation needed][dubious – discuss]
Classical kingdoms Proto-Arabic, or Ancient North Arabian, texts give a clearer picture of the Arabs' emergence. The earliest are written in variants of epigraphic south Arabian musnad script, including the 8th century BCE Hasaean inscriptions of eastern Saudi Arabia, the 6th century BCE Lihyanite texts of southeastern Saudi Arabia and the Thamudic texts found throughout Arabia and the Sinai (not in reality connected with Thamud).
The Nabataeans were nomadic newcomers[108][dubious – discuss] who moved into territory vacated by the Edomites – Semites who settled the region centuries before them. Their early inscriptions were in Aramaic, but gradually switched to Arabic, and since they had writing, it was they who made the first inscriptions in Arabic. The Nabataean Alphabet was adopted by Arabs to the south, and evolved into modern Arabic script around the 4th century. This is attested by Safaitic inscriptions (beginning in the 1st century BCE) and the many Arabic personal names in Nabataean inscriptions. From about the 2nd century BCE, a few inscriptions from Qaryat al-Faw (near Sulayyil) reveal a dialect which is no longer considered "proto-Arabic", but pre-classical Arabic. Five Syriac inscriptions mentioning Arabs have been found at Sumatar Harabesi, one of which has been dated to the 2nd century CE.
The Hebrew Bible occasionally refers to Aravi peoples (or variants thereof), translated as "Arab" or "Arabian." The scope of the term at that early stage is unclear, but it seems to have referred to various desert-dwelling Semitic tribes in the Syrian Desert and Arabia.[citation needed] Arab tribes came into conflict with the Assyrians during the reign of the Assyrian king Ashurbanipal, and he records military victories against the powerful Qedar tribe among others.
Assyrian horsemen pursue defeated Arabs
# ^ A history of the Babylonians and Assyrians, George Stephen Goodspeed. p.54
# ^ Cragg, 1991, p. 13.
# ^ "Arabia on Encyclopedia Britannica". Retrieved July 20, 2012.
# ^ a b Jan Retsö The Arabs in antiquity: their history from the Assyrians to the Umayyads, Routledge, 2003, ISBN 0-7007-1679-3, p. 105, 119, 125-127.
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posted
The origin of true arab is not even in southern arabia or yemen.
The arab white invader identity was form not there but in central arabia. _________________________
Early history The Arabs historically originate as a Central Semitic group in the Arabian peninsula. Their expansion beyond Arabia and the Syrian desert is due to the Muslim conquests of the 7th and 8th centuries. Iraq was conquered in 633 CE, Palestine between 636 and 640 CE.
Central Semitic languages
The Central Semitic languages are a proposed intermediate group of Semitic languages, comprising Arabic and Northwest Semitic languages (which include Aramaic, Ugaritic, and the Canaanite languages of Hebrew and Phoenician). In this reckoning Cental Semitic itself is one of three divisions of Semitic along with East Semitic (Akkadian) and South Semitic (South Arabian, and the Semitic languages of Ethiopia).
* Sabatino Moscati (1980). An Introduction to Comparative Grammar of Semitic Languages Phonology and Morphology. Harrassowitz Verlag. ISBN 3-447-00689-7.
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Old South Arabian Old South Arabian (or Epigraphic South Arabian, or Ṣayhadic) was a group of four closely related languages formerly spoken in the far southern portion of the Arabian Peninsula. There were a number of other Old South Arabian languages (e.g. Awsānian), of which very little evidence survived, however. All those languages were older than Classical Arabic, which developed around the 4th century.
The Old South Arabian languages were originally classified (partly on the basis of geography) as South Semitic, along with Arabic, Modern South Arabian and Ethiopian Semitic; more recently however, a new classification has come in use which places Old South Arabian, along with Arabic, Ugaritic, Aramaic and Canaanite in a Central Semitic group; leaving Modern South Arabian and Ethiopic in a separate group. This new classification is based on Arabic, Old South Arabic and Northwest Semitic (Ugaritic, Aramaic and Canaanite) sharing an innovation in the verbal system, an imperfect taking the form *yVqtVl-u (the other groups have *yVqattVl); Nebes showed that Sabaean at least had the form yVqtVl in the imperfect.
Even though has been now accepted that the four main languages be considered independent, they are clearly closely related linguistically and derive from a common ancestor because they share certain morphological innovations. One of the most important isoglosses retained in all four languages is the suffixed definite article - (h)n. There are however significant differences between the languages.
The four main Old South Arabian languages were Sabaean, Minaeic (or Madhabic), Qatabanic, and Hadramitic. According to Alice Faber (based on Hetzron's work), together with Ethiopian Semitic languages (such as the contemporary Ge'ez language) they formed the western branch of the South Semitic languages.
Languages
Sabaean: the language of the kingdom of Saba and later also of Ḥimyar; also documented in the Ethiopian kingdom of Da'amot; very well documented, ca. 6000 Inscriptions
# Minaean (also called Madhabian): the language of the city states in al-Jawf − with the exception of Ḥaram − especially the later sparsely populated state of Ma'in (Recorded from the 8th until 2nd century BC). Inscriptions have also been found also outside Ma'īn in the commercial colonies of Dedan and Madā'in Ṣāliḥ, in Egypt and also on Delos. (ca. 500 inscriptions)
Qatabānian: the language of the kingdom of Qatabān, recorded from the 5th century BC until the 2nd century (barely 2000 inscriptions)
# Ḥaḑramitic (or Haḑramitic): the language of Ḥaḑramaut, with an additional inscription from the Greek island of Delos. 5th century BC until the 4th century AD. (ca. 1000 inscriptions)
# ^ Leonid Kogan and Andrey Korotayev: Sayhadic Languages (Epigraphic South Arabian). Semitic Languages. London: Routledge, 1997. Pg. 221.
# ^ Dialekte nach: Peter Stein: Zur Dialektgeographie des Sabäischen. In: Journal of Semitic Studies XLIX/2. Manchester 2004
# ^ Faber, Alice (1997). "Genetic Subgrouping of the Semitic Languages". In Robert Hetzron. The Semitic Languages (1st ed. ed.). London: Routledge. p. 7. ISBN 0-415-05767-1.
# ^ Sabaean inscription (C 325), dated 669 of the Ḥimyarite era (=559 or 554 CE) (Leonid Kogan and Andrey Korotayev: Sayhadic Languages (Epigraphic South Arabian). Semitic Languages. London: Routledge, 1997. pg. 321).
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posted
These are arabs. # "Perishing Arabs": These are the ancients of whose history little is known. They include ʿĀd, Thamud, Tasm, Jadis, Imlaq and others. Jadis and Tasm perished because of genocide. ʿĀd and Thamud perished because of their decadence. Some people in the past doubted their existence, but Imlaq is the singular form of 'Amaleeq and is probably synonymous to the biblical Amalek.
# "Perishing Arabs": These are the ancients of whose history little is known. They include ʿĀd, Thamud, Tasm, Jadis, Imlaq and others. Jadis and Tasm perished because of genocide. ʿĀd and Thamud perished because of their decadence. Some people in the past doubted their existence, but Imlaq is the singular form of 'Amaleeq and is probably synonymous to the biblical Amalek.
# "Arabized Arabs": They allegedly originated from the progeny of Ishmael (Ismā'īl), son of the biblical patriarch and Islamic prophet, Abraham (Ibrāhīm), and were also called Adnan.
The several different Bedouin tribes throughout Arabian history are traditionally regarded as having emerged from two main branches: the Rabi`ah, from which amongst others the Banu Hanifa emerged, and the Mudhar, from which amongst others the Banu Kinanah (and later Muhammad's own tribe, the Quraysh) emerged. _________
Keep in mind some native arabians down the road became apart of these groups. You know, arabized.
Keep in mind some arabians back then had arab admixture when the arabs overtime came or some arabs just became arabianized.
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quote:Originally posted by Firewall: Nabataeans were true arabs. So they were not black, of course you may have had some arabized blacks in this civilization.
The meaning true arab MEANS invaders. The Qahtan were the early white invaders of southern arabia. These are whites that became known has Arab first, that's why they are called true Arabs. Some of the blacks came into this group these Arabian natives became apart of the the true Arabs.
Any black in this group were the first that became arabized. This groups conquered or arabized the northern white invaders of arabia called Adnanite.
Firewall, you had me fooled: I thought that you were a delusional European Albino, and now I see that you are either a delusional Turk Albino or a delusional Turk Mulatto.
Ha,ha,ha,ha: very funny the nonsense you post.
Idiot: the Nabataeans first appeared in the Southern Levant around CE 37 – c. 100, no one knows who the were or where they came from, but here is a clue: THEY SPOKE ARAMAIC!
Aramaic is the language of the Amorites, of which the Hebrews were a tribe.
The Amorites originated in Southern Anatolia/Northern Syria: They later founded many kingdoms in that area, one was called Aram, (usurping the Phoenicians), they also came to rule Mesopotamia, usurping the Sumerians/Chaldeans.
These people together became known as The Arameans or Aramaeans.
This is what Arameans looked like:
Firewall - WHERE ARE YOUR WHITE PEOPLE???
Ha,ha,ha,ha:
BTW - Does anyone know where these Turk monkeys and their Mulattoes, got the nonsense about Arabian genealogy?
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I am not white or Mulatto turk,maybe you ARE Idiot. All your other info is wrong mike by the way. Has for Arameans.
The Arameans, or Aramaeans, (Aramaic: ܐܪ̈ܡܝܐ, ארמיא ; ʼaramáyé) were a Northwest Semitic semi-nomadic and pastoralist people who originated in what is now modern Syria (Biblical Aram) during the Late Bronze Age and the Iron Age. Large groups migrated to Mesopotamia where they intermingled with the native Akkadian (Assyrian and Babylonian) population. A large proportion of Syriac Christians in modern Syria still espouse an Aramean identity to this day, though few now speak the Western Aramaic language.
______ Nope mike,these folks are not black. Idiot.
quote: Originally posted by dana marniche:
During what time and what tribes of non-indigenes are you talking about, Djehuti and where did they go? What skeletal record shows fairr-skinned people in Arabia, or wherever your suggesting. We have to be careful when we are claiming things especially without sources. Where did they go and when? I'm not saying they didn't mind you but you are speaking as if you have some proof of non-black tribes in Arabia at 1000BC. And why would they be non-indigenes if they were a "tribe" that infiltrated so early. [/QB]
You missing the point dana. The real arabs into this part of the world came around 1000b.c. Over time they took over or conqured the native population of arabia and the southern part and many became arabized.
This is group the arabs of today come from while the black ones come from the native population and other original groups.
The blacks arabs are arabized,not true arabs. The real arabs are the white invaders.
It's time to face the hard cold facts,and when you do, it will be truly liberating. Posts: 2560 | From: Somewhere | Registered: May 2012
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posted
Speaking of europeans,what do you think of this mike?
Black european royalty,MIKE'S FAVORITE SUBJECT. He-HE-HE.
Modern black european royalty.
Princess Angela of Liechtenstein
Princess Angela of Liechtenstein (3 February 1958) is the wife of Prince Maximilian of Liechtenstein. Princess Angela and her son, Prince Alfons (b. London, 18 May 2001), are the highest ranked black members of a reigning European dynasty.
Maybe mike wants to live in Liechtenstein.
Liechtenstein
palace-of-liechtenstein
Prince Maximilian and Princess Angela have one child:
Princess Angela of Liechtenstein Black Women: Your PRINCE Will Come - YouTube
quote:Originally posted by Firewall: I am not white or Mulatto turk,maybe you ARE Idiot. All your other info is wrong mike by the way. Has for Arameans.
The Arameans, or Aramaeans, (Aramaic: ܐܪ̈ܡܝܐ, ארמיא ; ʼaramáyé) were a Northwest Semitic semi-nomadic and pastoralist people who originated in what is now modern Syria (Biblical Aram) during the Late Bronze Age and the Iron Age. Large groups migrated to Mesopotamia where they intermingled with the native Akkadian (Assyrian and Babylonian) population. A large proportion of Syriac Christians in modern Syria still espouse an Aramean identity to this day, though few now speak the Western Aramaic language.
______ Nope mike,these folks are not black. Idiot.
posted
Mike and is name calling. Stick to the topic mike. Arameans are not turks,but they are white.
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another thing worth mentioning is that Arabs in middle of Arabian Peninsula had the purest Arabic language than the ones in Yemen and Iraq, because Yemen and Iraq had lots of contact with non-Arab nations such as Africa, Persia and Romans. while the Arabs in middle of Arabia had much less contact thats because middle of Arabia is mainly Desert and was not attractive to non-arabic nations and were more isolated and their language was not affected and kept pure, thats one of the reasons why Arabs from Big cities such as Makkah used to sent their kids to live their childhood in the desert with the bedouin people, to learn the pure Arabic language.
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posted
The Arab marker IS J-P58,THE WHITE ARABS ARE THE TRUE ARABS.
Arameans come from Syria not Anatolia.
Mike is frustrated that's why he has to called folks names. Like i said i am not white or Mulatto turk or european. I am NOT ANY OF those MIKE.
His views do not hold up. It's Pseudo science.
He is a fool.
Anyway debating this here is getting no where and the proof i posted is above for all to see and it's up to them to make thier minds.
There is nothing much i can say so i will leave with this,the original arabs and hebrews were/are not black,and the quicker some black folks get this in heads the better it will be.
posted
^Anyone with knowledge of who it is that is filling these poor Albino fools, and their Mulattoes heads with the nonsense that they are native to Arabia, please let me know, they need to be stopped. Before you know it, those fools will stop covering up from head to toe, like they absolutely MUST, and boom, they're done for!
Anyone with knowledge of them, please show this picture to them:
.
Tell them that when they can go out into the desert, and live shirtless like this, then they are truly Arabs.
Those that can't, are simply liars and pretenders.Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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Sabaʾ, biblical Sheba, kingdom in pre-Islamic southwestern Arabia, frequently mentioned in the Bible (notably in the story of King Solomon and the Queen of Sheba) and variously cited by ancient Assyrian, Greek, and Roman writers from about the 8th century bc to about the 5th century ad. Its capital, at least in the middle period, was Maʾrib, which lies 75 miles (120 km) east of present-day Sanaa, in Yemen. A second major city was Ṣirwāḥ.
The Sabaeans were a Semitic people who, at an unknown date, entered southern Arabia from the north, imposing their Semitic culture on an aboriginal population. Excavations in central Yemen suggest that the Sabaean civilization began as early as the 10th–12th century bc. By the 7th–5th century bc, besides “kings of Sabaʾ ” there were individuals styling themselves “mukarribs of Sabaʾ,” who apparently either were high priest–princes or exercised some function parallel to the kingly function. This middle period was characterized above all by a tremendous outburst of building activity, principally at Maʾrib and Ṣirwāḥ, and most of the great temples and monuments, including the great Maʾrib Dam, on which Sabaean agricultural prosperity depended, date back to this period. Further, there was an ever-shifting pattern of alliances and wars between Sabaʾ and other peoples of southwestern Arabia—not only the important kingdoms of Qatabān and Ḥaḍramawt but also a number of lesser but still independent kingdoms and city-states.
Sabaʾ was rich in spices and agricultural products and carried on a wealth of trade by overland caravan and by sea. For centuries it controlled Bāb el-Mandeb, the straits leading into the Red Sea, and it established many colonies on the African shores. That Abyssinia (Ethiopia) was peopled from South Arabia is proved linguistically; but the difference between the Sabaean and Ethiopian languages is such as to imply that the settlement was very early and that there were many centuries of separation, during which the Abyssinians were exposed to foreign influences. New colonies, however, seem occasionally to have followed, and some parts of the African coast were under the suzerainty of the Sabaean kings as late as the 1st century bc.
Toward the end of the 3rd century ad, a powerful king named Shamir Yuharʿish (who seems incidentally to be the first really historical personage whose fame has survived in the Islamic traditions) assumed the title “king of Sabaʾ and the Dhū Raydān and of Ḥaḍramawt and Yamanāt.” By this time, therefore, the political independence of Ḥaḍramawt had succumbed to Sabaʾ, which had thus become the controlling power in all southwestern Arabia. In the mid-4th century ad, it underwent a temporary eclipse, for the title of “king of Sabaʾ and the Dhū Raydān” was then claimed by the king of Aksum on the east African coast. At the end of the 4th century, southern Arabia was again independent under a “king of Sabaʾ and the Dhū Raydān and Ḥaḍramawt and Yamanāt.” But within two centuries the Sabaeans would disappear as they were successively overrun by Persian adventurers and by the Muslim Arabs.
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Give the link please, no telling where that came from. As you can see, it has no historical support. We know how the Albinos like to make fake statues.
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Give the link please, no telling where that came from. As you can see, it has no historical support. We know how the Albinos like to make fake statues.
Funny thing lioness; I went to the museum site and searched for Dhamar Ali Yahbur, it came back with "0" results, HOW COULD THAT BE????
quote:Originally posted by Firewall: Sabaeans were not arabs,they were arabian,just like you said. Anyway when you mention this group Qahtan,it almost reminds me of this group or name Qatabanian. So sorry i was not paying attention,and you got me there,but i got you with your past comments above.
Of course this is not a gotcha game,and we should help each other out when mistakes happen.
Anyway back to the point. One is arab,and the other was pre-arab,or arabian. The true or original natives of the arabian peninsula.
SO we kinda saying the same thing. I think overall on this we are on the same basic page if you still believe in your past comments from another thread that i posted above.
Arabs. Qahtanite The terms Qahtanite and Qahtani (Arabic: قحطا ن ; transliterated: Qahtan or Qaḥ ṭān or Kahtan) refer to one of the main groups of Arab peoples either originating in, or claiming genealogical descent from the southern extent of the Arabian Peninsula, especially from Yemen.
Arabians. One of the four better-documented languages of the Old South Arabian (or "Ṣayhadic") sub-group of South Semitic, Qatabānian (or Qatabānic) was spoken mainly but not exclusively in the kingdom of Qatabän,located in central Yemen. The language is attested between 500 BC and 200 AD. Some two thousand inscriptions are known written in the Ancient South Arabian Monumental Script, known as Musnad. These inscriptions are mainly found in Wādī Bayhān and Wādī Ḥārib to the south-east of Ma'rib, and from the plateau to the south of that area. Qatabanian inscriptions increase after the beginning of the 4th century BC when the Sabaeans ceased to dominate the area, and Qatabān became an independent kingdom. Qatabanian was spoken in an area across the kingdom of Qatabān as far asJabal al-'Awd (near Zafar) in the southwest, and if we are to believe the Greek and Latin writers, it went as far as Bāb al-Mandab on the Red Sea. At the end of the 2nd century AD, Saba' and Ḥaḑramawt finally defeated Qatabān, and the inscriptions ended.
There seems to be some confusion here about the term 'Arab' and 'Arabian'.
The Arabs i.e. those who speak Arabic or practice Arab culture are comprised of three main divisions:
al-'Arab ul-'Aribah--South Arabian "Kushites" of the oldest purest civilization and blood lines)
al-'Arab ul-Muta'aribah--Northerners who entered Arabia mixed in upon the southerners adopting language and culture.
al-'Arab ul-Musta'ribah--Foreigners outside of Arabia with no Arab ancestry who after Arab conquests were assimilated and adopted Arab culture.
The Sabaeans would therefore be al-Aribah or Qahtani Arabs of the south while other Quraysh (Muhammad's tribe) would be al-Muta'aribah or Adnani tribes of the north. And then you have folks like Syrian and Iraqi Arabs who are 'Arab' in name and culture only and so al-Musta'rib.
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