quote:Originally posted by Son of Ra: I think the earliest Arabians would obviously resemble Africans since Arabia is a hopscotch away. But that doesn't mean they were genetically related to Africans.
I also think those E-V13 carriers who carried that clade into Europe would have looked like that.
I think many early Arabians looked similar to Dravidians too, firewall - especially the lesser modified Dravidians such as these.
Tamil
Tamil holy man
Arabians of Yemen
Obviously many still do.Tihama Arabian girl
Mahra of Oman and Hadramaut speak the ancient Himyarite Qahtan dialects
BTW we know what early Arabs like Firewall from their rock art. That is what you don't seem to get.
And I am sorry that you don't have access to the studies that show that there is also genetic link of modern Arabians to the peoples of the HORN.
Those studies have been already posted several times on this Egyptsearch forum so maybe you'd better to take the time and go search them out.
BTW - there have been many south Indians of the Austric (Munda) group and Africans brought into Arabia during the Middle Ages. Maybe you don't know that as well.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol: 7.1. Black God of Ancient Arabia and Israel
In 1985, German scholar Werner Daum published an important monograph, Ursemitische Religion ("Proto-Semitic Religion").[1] By a close study of ancient South Arabian inscriptions and modern Yemeni folktales and ritual practices, Daum was able to produce a convincing reconstruction of proto-Semitic Religion, or at least important aspects thereof. The proto-Semites are believed to have been the original speakers of that language (Proto-Semitic) from which the various Semitic languages derived (Arabic, Hebrew, Ugaritic, Akkadian, etc.). It has been suggested that they originated in the areas round the northern frontier of Syria,[2] and began diverging probably around 5000 B.C.E. As these Proto-Semites will eventually evolve into the Semites (Arabs, Hebrews, Canaanites, Akkadians, etc.), proto-Semitic religion will make an important contribution to the development of the Semitic religious tradition, even the Semitic monotheistic traditions (i.e. the so-called 'Religions of the Book'- Judaism, Christianity, and Islam). Daum suggests that our best evidence for reconstructing the 'Ursemitische Religion' comes from southern Arabia.[3] The most important observation for our purposes is that, according to Daum's reconstruction, the high god of the proto-Semites was a black storm deity, rain being most valued in this part of the world, called "Il/"El/"Al. Now "l is the general appellative meaning 'god' and proper divine name in all the major branches of the Semitic family of languages[4]; from it derived the Hebrew "ŔlŮah thus the biblical "ŔlŮhîm, God")[5] and Arabic il§h (thus the qur"§nic aĎϧh, "God").[6] This ancient proto-Semitic deity was depicted as an old, bearded man and associated with the black rain cloud, black bovine* (ibex, bull, buffalo) and occasionally the black ostrich. These, Daum tells us, "symbolisiert den dunklen "Il (‚symbolized the dark "Il')."[7] In the ancient Near Eastern and India the black rain-cloud symbolized the god's black body[8] and the hide of the black bull signifies the skin of the black god.[9]
The British historian Julian Baldick followed up and expanded upon Daum's research with Black God: The Afroasiatic Roots of the Jewish, Christian and Muslim Religions.[10] Baldick's research suggested that, just as there is an 'Afroasiatic' language group indigenous to North Africa and Arabia (consisting of the Semitic languages, the ancient Egyptian language, Berber, Hausa, and the Kushitic and Omotic languages of the Horn of Africa) there is likewise an 'Afroasiatic' religious tradition indigenous to the same area and peculiar to the same groups. This 'Afroasiatic' religious tradition is characterized by a dualistic logic which emphasizes the male-female dichotomy and by a divine triad consisting of a Black storm god, a goddess, and a young hero god. Baldick notes:
'Afroasiatic' logic is in my view particularly dualistic and based on the opposition between male and female…(T)his logic is particularly directed towards obtaining water, and operates by combining a male storm-god, black and violent, with a female deity of the sun, white and vulnerable.[11]
I somewhat disagree with Baldicks assessment. For one thing it wasn't a duality but a complementary system between male and female and the color black did not always conform to a male deity anymore than 'white' conformed to a female one. As far as black representing a raincloud or storm we don't know. However, the belief in a black colored god is not confined to Afrasian speakers alone. Many Nilo-Saharan speakers especially Nilotic peoples believe in a supreme divinity colored black as well, for example the god L'ngai of the Maasai is said to be black in color and is associated with storm clouds. However the Egyptians depicted a number of divinities as black though apparently having nothing to do with rain or storms. Both Ausar (Osiris) and Aset (Isis) were at times described as 'black face' and there are bull deities like Menwer and Hep who are black in color although their mother the cow Heshat was white she probably represented the bright day sky as opposed to the sun.
Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol: 7.1. Black God of Ancient Arabia and Israel
In 1985, German scholar Werner Daum published an important monograph, Ursemitische Religion ("Proto-Semitic Religion").[1] By a close study of ancient South Arabian inscriptions and modern Yemeni folktales and ritual practices, Daum was able to produce a convincing reconstruction of proto-Semitic Religion, or at least important aspects thereof. The proto-Semites are believed to have been the original speakers of that language (Proto-Semitic) from which the various Semitic languages derived (Arabic, Hebrew, Ugaritic, Akkadian, etc.). It has been suggested that they originated in the areas round the northern frontier of Syria,[2] and began diverging probably around 5000 B.C.E. As these Proto-Semites will eventually evolve into the Semites (Arabs, Hebrews, Canaanites, Akkadians, etc.), proto-Semitic religion will make an important contribution to the development of the Semitic religious tradition, even the Semitic monotheistic traditions (i.e. the so-called 'Religions of the Book'- Judaism, Christianity, and Islam). Daum suggests that our best evidence for reconstructing the 'Ursemitische Religion' comes from southern Arabia.[3] The most important observation for our purposes is that, according to Daum's reconstruction, the high god of the proto-Semites was a black storm deity, rain being most valued in this part of the world, called "Il/"El/"Al. Now "l is the general appellative meaning 'god' and proper divine name in all the major branches of the Semitic family of languages[4]; from it derived the Hebrew "ŔlŮah thus the biblical "ŔlŮhîm, God")[5] and Arabic il§h (thus the qur"§nic aĎϧh, "God").[6] This ancient proto-Semitic deity was depicted as an old, bearded man and associated with the black rain cloud, black bovine* (ibex, bull, buffalo) and occasionally the black ostrich. These, Daum tells us, "symbolisiert den dunklen "Il (‚symbolized the dark "Il')."[7] In the ancient Near Eastern and India the black rain-cloud symbolized the god's black body[8] and the hide of the black bull signifies the skin of the black god.[9]
The British historian Julian Baldick followed up and expanded upon Daum's research with Black God: The Afroasiatic Roots of the Jewish, Christian and Muslim Religions.[10] Baldick's research suggested that, just as there is an 'Afroasiatic' language group indigenous to North Africa and Arabia (consisting of the Semitic languages, the ancient Egyptian language, Berber, Hausa, and the Kushitic and Omotic languages of the Horn of Africa) there is likewise an 'Afroasiatic' religious tradition indigenous to the same area and peculiar to the same groups. This 'Afroasiatic' religious tradition is characterized by a dualistic logic which emphasizes the male-female dichotomy and by a divine triad consisting of a Black storm god, a goddess, and a young hero god. Baldick notes:
'Afroasiatic' logic is in my view particularly dualistic and based on the opposition between male and female…(T)his logic is particularly directed towards obtaining water, and operates by combining a male storm-god, black and violent, with a female deity of the sun, white and vulnerable.[11]
I somewhat disagree with Baldicks assessment. For one thing it wasn't a duality but a complementary system between male and female and the color black did not always conform to a male deity anymore than 'white' conformed to a female one. As far as black representing a raincloud or storm we don't know. However, the belief in a black colored god is not confined to Afrasian speakers alone. Many Nilo-Saharan speakers especially Nilotic peoples believe in a supreme divinity colored black as well, for example the god L'ngai of the Maasai is said to be black in color and is associated with storm clouds. However the Egyptians depicted a number of divinities as black though apparently having nothing to do with rain or storms. Both Ausar (Osiris) and Aset (Isis) were at times described as 'black face' and there are bull deities like Menwer and Hep who are black in color although their mother the cow Heshat was white she probably represented the bright day sky as opposed to the sun. [/QUOTE]Osiris or Ausar was called black face because he was an ancient Egyptian or Nilotic ancestor. For African people Gods were considered ancestors.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Firewall: I am not arab,don't me called that. I know the basic history,but the point is the orginal native population did not call themselves arab.
Dana if you care so much about the yemen or southern arabian region why don't you help these folks reclaim thier original identity.
Tell them they are not arabs,but they south arabians.
Help them,be the super woman they need. Show them the light.
Firewall - I receive emails from indigenous folks all over Arabia and even in Britain thanking me for illuminating and preserving their heritage.
If you don't like that I can not help you. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Son of Ra: Its getting annoying because you're keep making idiotic post.
Son of Ass
Excuse mi? You are frigging new to this board so behave yourself before you get the beating of your life...
Gee, what an Ass!
LOL! By who???
I know I'm not a Swenet, Troll Patrol, Al-Takruri, Djehuti, Explorer or beyoku. But its pretty obvious that the things you and Mike111 are spewing is just laughable.
Not even Lioness takes you two clowns serious.
Get real...
Son of Rats
I gather you are the only one here who considers Lionese an authority, eh?
You are indeed sillier than I would have believed.
Are you also African like your sage Lionese? LOL!
LMAO at this chump! Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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posted
They are brainwashed and doomed,and you are not helping dana.Save thier original heritage ,not this fake arab non-sense. Let the white arab keep his/her original identity,the arab identity.
Posts: 2560 | From: Somewhere | Registered: May 2012
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quote:Originally posted by Firewall: They are brainwashed and doomed,and you are not helping.Save thier original heritage,not this fake arab non-sense. Let the white arab keep his/her original identity,the arab identity.
Actually you are the brainwashed one Firewall. And Arab is only a nationality today.
I thank you for your consideration of this matter.
BTW - the Arabs said a white or fair-skinned Arab is "inconceivable". Remember? Look it up in the Unique Necklace volume 8 by Ibn Abd Rabbih of the 11th century.. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Firewall: I am not arab,don't me called that. I know the basic history,but the point is the orginal native population did not call themselves arab.
Dana if you care so much about the yemen or southern arabian region why don't you help these folks reclaim thier original identity.
Tell them they are not arabs,but they south arabians.
Help them,be the super woman they need. Show them the light.
Firewall - I receive emails from indigenous folks all over Arabia and even in Britain thanking me for illuminating and preserving their heritage.
If you don't like that I can not help you.
Matthew 7:6:
quote: Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you....
Give em thrash. That's what street dogs live off...
Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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posted
Yeah I know I keep casting - but its only because they give me the opportunity to reiterate i.e. cut and paste, what the medieval sources said.
Like one of my favorites;
"You insulted (the family of the Prophet) because of their blackness (bi-l-sawad), while there are still deep black, pure-blooded Arabs. However, you are white – the Romans (Byzantines) have embellished your faces with their color. The color of the FAMILY OF HASHIM was not a bodily defect (aha).[From poem of Abu al-Hasan Ali b. al-Abbas b. Jurayj (Ibn al-Rumi) (d. 896), apud Abu al-Faraj al-Isbahani, Maqatil al-tăalibiyyin, 759] "
Thank you, Tarikh and Wesley.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
There are some that have still speak the original native languages i believe.
Join them and spread this true identity back in arabia. This is one of the first step for true liberation of arabia or yemen.
Yemen should be the main focus however,it's too for arabia,maybe too late for yemen but it has a better chance.
The black berbers should reclaim Libya,and the blacks of egypt should reclaim egypt etc etc.... but you are not helping the true black cause.
You just want to have these imposed or forced identities stuck on blacks,like hispanic,arab or what ever.
Folks like you will have to be ignored because you are damaged and can't be saved,but life goes on and others out there will do the saving who know the truth.
Posts: 2560 | From: Somewhere | Registered: May 2012
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quote:Originally posted by Firewall: There are some that have still speak the original native languages i believe.
Join them and spread this true identity back in arabia. This is one of the first step for true liberation of arabia or yemen.
Yemen should be the main focus however,it's too for arabia,maybe too late for yemen but it has a better chance.
The black berbers should reclaim Libya,and the blacks of egypt should reclaim egypt etc etc.... but you are not helping the true black cause.
You just want to have these imposed or forced identities stuck on blacks,like hispanic,arab or what ever.
Folks like you will have to be ignored because you damaged and can't be saved,but life goes on and others out there will do the saving who know the truth.
sorry Firewall - I'm not interested in politics, or your politics rather. I could care less. I am not joined with anybody but my ancestors.
And truly sorry you don't like the fact earliest Arabs described themselves and were described by others as "B L A C K!
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
Help these folks first,forget the arabs or the arabized. Some of the arabized could be saved in the long term but many i do not think so,but who knows.
It looks there is not enough in numbers for the original natives that still have thier original languages to reclaim yemen,so some arabized arabians have to see the light to reclaim the southern part of the arabian peninsula if they want it back.
Modern South Arabian languages
The Modern South Arabian (Eastern South Semitic or Eastern South Arabian) languages are spoken mainly by small populations inhabiting the Arabian Peninsula, in Yemen and Oman. Together with the modern Ethiopian Semitic languages, they form the South Semitic sub-branch of the Afro-Asiatic family's Semitic branch.
In his glottochronology-based classification, Alexander Militarev presents the Modern South Arabian languages as a South Semitic branch opposed to a North Semitic branch that includes all the other Semitic languages. They are no longer considered to be descendants of the Old South Arabian language, as was once thought.
Grammar Modern South Arabian languages are known for their apparent archaic Semitic features, especially in their system of phonology. For example, they preserve the lateral fricatives of Proto-Semitic.
Additionally, Militarev identified a Cushitic substratum in Modern South Arabian, which he proposes is evidence that Cushitic speakers originally inhabited the Arabian Peninsula alongside Semitic speakers (Militarev 1984, 18-19; cf. also Belova 2003). According to Václav Blažek, this suggests that Semites assimilated their original Cushitic neighbours to the south who did not later emigrate to the Horn of Africa. He argues that the Levant would thus have been the Proto-Afro-Asiatic Urheimat, from where the various branches of the Afro-Asiatic family subsequently dispersed. To further support this, Blažek cites analysis of rock art in Central Arabia by Anati (1968, 180-84), which notes a connection between the shield-carrying "oval-headed" people depicted on the cave paintings and the Arabian Cushites from the Old Testament, who were similarly described as carrying specific shields.
Types # Mehri: the largest Modern South Arabian languages, with more than 70,000 speakers in Yemen. Of these, more than 50,000 live in Oman, and about 15,000 are situated farther afield in Kuwait due to emigration. The population total for all countries is 135,764 (SIL 2000). The Muslim ethnic group itself is called Mahra.
# Soqotri: another relatively numerous example, with speakers on the island of Socotra isolated from the pressures of Arabic on the Yemeni mainland. According to the 1990 census in Yemen, the number of speakers there was 57,000 (including, perhaps, Soqotris living on the mainland). The population total for all countries (including work emigrants) is estimated at 64,000.
# Shehri: (frequently called Jibbali or "mountain" language), with an estimated 25,000 speakers, is best known as the language of the rebels during the rebellion in Oman's Dhofar province along its border with Yemen in the 1960s and 1970s.
# Bathari: 200 speakers est.
# Harsusi: 1,000–2,000 speakers est., in Oman. # Hobyót: 100 speakers est., in Oman.
References # ^ Blažek, Václav. "Afroasiatic Migrations: Linguistic Evidence". Retrieved 9 May 2013.
Posts: 2560 | From: Somewhere | Registered: May 2012
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posted
Well that's fine IF YOU WANT TO Believe IN fantasy and myths and lies but every body can't be saved.
The white man has done a good job brainwashing alot of blacks,but there are many that have not drink the kool- aid or shaking off the brainwashing but don't impose your false believes on everybody else. Thanks.
Posts: 2560 | From: Somewhere | Registered: May 2012
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quote:Originally posted by Firewall: Help these folks first,forget the arabs or the arabized. Some of the arabized could be saved in the long term but many i do not think so,but who knows.
It looks there is not enough in numbers for the original natives that still have thier original languages to reclaim yemen,so some arabized arabians have to see the light to reclaim the southern part of the arabian peninsula if they want it back.
Modern South Arabian languages
The Modern South Arabian (Eastern South Semitic or Eastern South Arabian) languages are spoken mainly by small populations inhabiting the Arabian Peninsula, in Yemen and Oman. Together with the modern Ethiopian Semitic languages, they form the South Semitic sub-branch of the Afro-Asiatic family's Semitic branch.
In his glottochronology-based classification, Alexander Militarev presents the Modern South Arabian languages as a South Semitic branch opposed to a North Semitic branch that includes all the other Semitic languages. They are no longer considered to be descendants of the Old South Arabian language, as was once thought.
Grammar Modern South Arabian languages are known for their apparent archaic Semitic features, especially in their system of phonology. For example, they preserve the lateral fricatives of Proto-Semitic.
Additionally, Militarev identified a Cushitic substratum in Modern South Arabian, which he proposes is evidence that Cushitic speakers originally inhabited the Arabian Peninsula alongside Semitic speakers (Militarev 1984, 18-19; cf. also Belova 2003). According to Václav Blažek, this suggests that Semites assimilated their original Cushitic neighbours to the south who did not later emigrate to the Horn of Africa. He argues that the Levant would thus have been the Proto-Afro-Asiatic Urheimat, from where the various branches of the Afro-Asiatic family subsequently dispersed. To further support this, Blažek cites analysis of rock art in Central Arabia by Anati (1968, 180-84), which notes a connection between the shield-carrying "oval-headed" people depicted on the cave paintings and the Arabian Cushites from the Old Testament, who were similarly described as carrying specific shields.
Types # Mehri: the largest Modern South Arabian languages, with more than 70,000 speakers in Yemen. Of these, more than 50,000 live in Oman, and about 15,000 are situated farther afield in Kuwait due to emigration. The population total for all countries is 135,764 (SIL 2000). The Muslim ethnic group itself is called Mahra.
# Soqotri: another relatively numerous example, with speakers on the island of Socotra isolated from the pressures of Arabic on the Yemeni mainland. According to the 1990 census in Yemen, the number of speakers there was 57,000 (including, perhaps, Soqotris living on the mainland). The population total for all countries (including work emigrants) is estimated at 64,000.
# Shehri: (frequently called Jibbali or "mountain" language), with an estimated 25,000 speakers, is best known as the language of the rebels during the rebellion in Oman's Dhofar province along its border with Yemen in the 1960s and 1970s.
# Bathari: 200 speakers est.
# Harsusi: 1,000–2,000 speakers est., in Oman. # Hobyót: 100 speakers est., in Oman.
References # ^ Blažek, Václav. "Afroasiatic Migrations: Linguistic Evidence". Retrieved 9 May 2013.
There is no such thin as Cushitic Firewall. They found out it Cushitic and Semitic were too similar to be considered separate languages. They are two separate dialects belonging to an Afro-Asiatic group That is the new word. Catch up on your reading.
BTW - early linguists were able to translate the Akkadian because of Somali. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Firewall: Help these folks first,forget the arabs or the arabized. Some of the arabized could be saved in the long term but many i do not think so,but who knows.
It looks there is not enough in numbers for the original natives that still have thier original languages to reclaim yemen,so some arabized arabians have to see the light to reclaim the southern part of the arabian peninsula if they want it back.
Modern South Arabian languages
The Modern South Arabian (Eastern South Semitic or Eastern South Arabian) languages are spoken mainly by small populations inhabiting the Arabian Peninsula, in Yemen and Oman. Together with the modern Ethiopian Semitic languages, they form the South Semitic sub-branch of the Afro-Asiatic family's Semitic branch.
In his glottochronology-based classification, Alexander Militarev presents the Modern South Arabian languages as a South Semitic branch opposed to a North Semitic branch that includes all the other Semitic languages. They are no longer considered to be descendants of the Old South Arabian language, as was once thought.
Grammar Modern South Arabian languages are known for their apparent archaic Semitic features, especially in their system of phonology. For example, they preserve the lateral fricatives of Proto-Semitic.
Additionally, Militarev identified a Cushitic substratum in Modern South Arabian, which he proposes is evidence that Cushitic speakers originally inhabited the Arabian Peninsula alongside Semitic speakers (Militarev 1984, 18-19; cf. also Belova 2003). According to Václav Blažek, this suggests that Semites assimilated their original Cushitic neighbours to the south who did not later emigrate to the Horn of Africa. He argues that the Levant would thus have been the Proto-Afro-Asiatic Urheimat, from where the various branches of the Afro-Asiatic family subsequently dispersed. To further support this, Blažek cites analysis of rock art in Central Arabia by Anati (1968, 180-84), which notes a connection between the shield-carrying "oval-headed" people depicted on the cave paintings and the Arabian Cushites from the Old Testament, who were similarly described as carrying specific shields.
Types # Mehri: the largest Modern South Arabian languages, with more than 70,000 speakers in Yemen. Of these, more than 50,000 live in Oman, and about 15,000 are situated farther afield in Kuwait due to emigration. The population total for all countries is 135,764 (SIL 2000). The Muslim ethnic group itself is called Mahra.
# Soqotri: another relatively numerous example, with speakers on the island of Socotra isolated from the pressures of Arabic on the Yemeni mainland. According to the 1990 census in Yemen, the number of speakers there was 57,000 (including, perhaps, Soqotris living on the mainland). The population total for all countries (including work emigrants) is estimated at 64,000.
# Shehri: (frequently called Jibbali or "mountain" language), with an estimated 25,000 speakers, is best known as the language of the rebels during the rebellion in Oman's Dhofar province along its border with Yemen in the 1960s and 1970s.
# Bathari: 200 speakers est.
# Harsusi: 1,000–2,000 speakers est., in Oman. # Hobyót: 100 speakers est., in Oman.
References # ^ Blažek, Václav. "Afroasiatic Migrations: Linguistic Evidence". Retrieved 9 May 2013.
There is no such thin as Cushitic Firewall. They found out it Cushitic and Semitic were too similar to be considered separate languages. They are two separate dialects belonging to an Afro-Asiatic group That is the new word. Catch up on your reading.
BTW - early linguists were able to translate the Akkadian because of Somali.
Dana like mike,making up stuff.
Cushitic languages
The Cushitic languages are a branch of the Afroasiatic language family spoken in the Horn of Africa, Tanzania, Kenya, Sudan and Egypt. They are named after the Biblical character Cush, who was traditionally identified as an ancestor of the speakers of these specific languages as early as 947 CE (in Masudi's Arabic history Meadows of Gold). The most populous Cushitic language is Oromo with about 35 million speakers, followed by Somali with about 18 million speakers, and Sidamo in Ethiopia with about 2 million speakers. Other languages with more than one million speakers are Hadia (1.6 million), Kambata (1.4 million), and Afar (1.5 million).
Posts: 2560 | From: Somewhere | Registered: May 2012
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The Modern South Arabian (Eastern South Semitic or Eastern South Arabian) languages are spoken mainly by small populations inhabiting the Arabian Peninsula, in Yemen and Oman. Together with the modern Ethiopian Semitic languages, they form the South Semitic sub-branch of the Afro-Asiatic family's Semitic branch.
In his glottochronology-based classification, Alexander Militarev presents the Modern South Arabian languages as a South Semitic branch opposed to a North Semitic branch that includes all the other Semitic languages. They are no longer considered to be descendants of the Old South Arabian language, as was once thought.
Grammar Modern South Arabian languages are known for their apparent archaic Semitic features, especially in their system of phonology. For example, they preserve the lateral fricatives of Proto-Semitic.
Additionally, Militarev identified a Cushitic substratum in Modern South Arabian, which he proposes is evidence that Cushitic speakers originally inhabited the Arabian Peninsula alongside Semitic speakers (Militarev 1984, 18-19; cf. also Belova 2003). According to Václav Blažek, this suggests that Semites assimilated their original Cushitic neighbours to the south who did not later emigrate to the Horn of Africa. He argues that the Levant would thus have been the Proto-Afro-Asiatic Urheimat, from where the various branches of the Afro-Asiatic family subsequently dispersed. To further support this, Blažek cites analysis of rock art in Central Arabia by Anati (1968, 180-84), which notes a connection between the shield-carrying "oval-headed" people depicted on the cave paintings and the Arabian Cushites from the Old Testament, who were similarly described as carrying specific shields.
Types # Mehri: the largest Modern South Arabian languages, with more than 70,000 speakers in Yemen. Of these, more than 50,000 live in Oman, and about 15,000 are situated farther afield in Kuwait due to emigration. The population total for all countries is 135,764 (SIL 2000). The Muslim ethnic group itself is called Mahra.
# Soqotri: another relatively numerous example, with speakers on the island of Socotra isolated from the pressures of Arabic on the Yemeni mainland. According to the 1990 census in Yemen, the number of speakers there was 57,000 (including, perhaps, Soqotris living on the mainland). The population total for all countries (including work emigrants) is estimated at 64,000.
# Shehri: (frequently called Jibbali or "mountain" language), with an estimated 25,000 speakers, is best known as the language of the rebels during the rebellion in Oman's Dhofar province along its border with Yemen in the 1960s and 1970s.
# Bathari: 200 speakers est.
# Harsusi: 1,000–2,000 speakers est., in Oman. # Hobyót: 100 speakers est., in Oman.
References # ^ Blažek, Václav. "Afroasiatic Migrations: Linguistic Evidence". Retrieved 9 May 2013.
Posts: 2560 | From: Somewhere | Registered: May 2012
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quote:Originally posted by Firewall: I am not arab,don't me called that. I know the basic history,but the point is the orginal native population did not call themselves arab.
Dana if you care so much about the yemen or southern arabian region why don't you help these folks reclaim thier original identity.
Tell them they are not arabs,but they south arabians.
Help them,be the super woman they need. Show them the light.
Firewall - I receive emails from indigenous folks all over Arabia and even in Britain thanking me for illuminating and preserving their heritage.
If you don't like that I can not help you.
Matthew 7:6:
quote: Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you....
Give em thrash. That's what street dogs live off...
The boy is simply disgusting in his ignorance and hubris...
Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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posted
Folks who had a steady diet of arabism,LIES AND FANTASY can't take it.
BUT IT MUST BE DONE. It's good for your health.
South Arabia South Arabia as a general term refers to several regions as currently recognized, in chief the Republic of Yemen; yet it has historically also included Najran, Jizan, and 'Asir which are presently in Saudi Arabia, and Dhofar presently in Oman. The frontiers of South Arabia as linguistically conceived would include the historic peoples speaking the related South Arabian languages as well as neighboring dialects of Arabic, and their descendants. Anciently there was a South Arabian alphabet, which was borrowed by Ethiopia. South Arabia as generally conceived would include the lands inhabited by peoples partaking of its distinctive traditions and culture, which overlap recently demarcated political boundaries.
Yemen or al-yaman means "the south". One etymology derives Yemen from yamin the "right side" as the south is on the right when facing the sunrise; yet this etymology is considered suspect. Another derives Yemen from yumn meaning "felicity" as the region is fertile; indeed the Romans called it Arabia Felix. In an ancient, traditional Arabian genealogy, the people of the peninsula are divided between north and south, those of the north descending from Ishmael and Adnan (from whom Muhammad descended), and those of South Arabia being the descendants of Qahtan or Joktan (Yoqtan) and Jokshan.
Three thousand years ago several different state entities occupied the region of South Arabia, e.g., M'ain, Qataban, Hadhramaut, Saba. In these ancient times South Arabia claimed several notable features: the famous dam at Marib, the cosmopolitan incense trade, as well as the legendary Queen of Sheba. Two thousand years ago the Himyarites became the masters of South Arabia, remaining dominant for several centuries. From Ethiopia across Al-Bahr Al-Ahmar came armies of Axum first in the 3rd-4th centuries, then later in the 6th under King Kaleb who established dominion, c. 520. They were displaced by Persian forces of the Sassanid dynasty, c.575, who also arrived by sea. A half-century later, in the year 6 A.H. (628), the region became Muslim.
# ^ Mackintosh-Smith, Yemen (London: John Murray 1997) at 8.
# ^ Robert G. Hoyland, Arabia and the Arabs (London: Routledge 2001) at 58-59.
# ^ Brian Doe, South Arabia (London: Thames & Hudson 1971) at 60-102.
# ^ al-Tabari, The History of al-Tabari, volume V, The Sasanids, the Byzantines, the Lakmids, and Yemen (S.U.N.Y. 1999), in Yemen: Ethiopian conquest at 179, 182-183, 204-208, 212; Persia over al-Habashah at 159-160, 236-249.
# ^ Stuart Munro-Hay, Aksum. An African civilization of late antiquity (Edinburgh Univ. 1991) at 71-74, 76-77 (3rd century), at 78-80 (4th century), at 84-88 (6th century).
South Arabian alphabet
The ancient Yemeni alphabet (Old South Arabian m3nd :modern Arabic المُسنَد) branched from the Proto-Sinaitic alphabet in about the 9th century BC. It was used for writing the Old South Arabian languages of the Sabaic, Qatabanic, Hadramautic, Minaic (or Madhabic), Himyaritic, and proto-Ge'ez (or proto-Ethiosemitic) in Dʿmt. The earliest inscriptions in the alphabet date to the 9th century BC in Akkele Guzay, Eritrea and in the 10th century BC in Yemen. There are no vowels, instead using the mater lectionis to mark them.
Its mature form was reached around 500 BC, and its use continued until the 6th century AD, including Old North Arabian inscriptions in variants of the alphabet, when it was displaced by the Arabic alphabet. In Ethiopia and Eritrea it evolved later into the Ge'ez alphabet, which, with added symbols throughout the centuries, has been used to write Amharic, Tigrinya and Tigre, as well as other languages (including various Semitic, Cushitic, and Nilo-Saharan languages).
# Stein, Peter (2005). "The Ancient South Arabian Minuscule Inscriptions on Wood: A New Genre of Pre-Islamic Epigraphy". Jaarbericht van het Vooraziatisch-Egyptisch Genootschap "Ex Oriente Lux" 39: 181–199.
_______________ Old South Arabian Old South Arabian (or Epigraphic South Arabian, or Ṣayhadic) was a group of four closely related languages formerly spoken in the far southern portion of the Arabian Peninsula. There were a number of other Old South Arabian languages (e.g. Awsānian), of which very little evidence survived, however. All those languages were older than Classical Arabic, which developed around the 4th century.
Classification issues It was originally thought that all four members of this group were dialects of one Old South Arabian language, but in the mid-twentieth century Beeston finally proved that they did in fact constitute independent languages.
The Old South Arabian languages were originally classified (partly on the basis of geography) as South Semitic, along with Arabic, Modern South Arabian and Ethiopian Semitic; more recently however, a new classification has come in use which places Old South Arabian, along with Arabic, Ugaritic, Aramaic and Canaanite in a Central Semitic group; leaving Modern South Arabian and Ethiopic in a separate group. This new classification is based on Arabic, Old South Arabic and Northwest Semitic (Ugaritic, Aramaic and Canaanite) sharing an innovation in the verbal system, an imperfect taking the form *yVqtVl-u (the other groups have *yVqattVl); Nebes showed that Sabaean at least had the form yVqtVl in the imperfect.
The Old South Arabian languages were originally classified (partly on the basis of geography) as South Semitic, along with Arabic, Modern South Arabian and Ethiopian Semitic; more recently however, a new classification has come in use which places Old South Arabian, along with Arabic, Ugaritic, Aramaic and Canaanite in a Central Semitic group; leaving Modern South Arabian and Ethiopic in a separate group. This new classification is based on Arabic, Old South Arabic and Northwest Semitic (Ugaritic, Aramaic and Canaanite) sharing an innovation in the verbal system, an imperfect taking the form *yVqtVl-u (the other groups have *yVqattVl); Nebes showed that Sabaean at least had the form yVqtVl in the imperfect.
The four main Old South Arabian languages were Sabaean, Minaeic (or Madhabic), Qatabanic, and Hadramitic. According to Alice Faber (based on Hetzron's work), together with Ethiopian Semitic languages (such as the contemporary Ge'ez language) they formed the western branch of the South Semitic languages.
Old South Arabian had its own writing system, the Ancient South Arabian Monumental Script, or Musnad, consisting of 29 graphemes concurrently used for proto-Ge'ez in the Kingdom of D`mt, ultimately sharing a common origin with the other Semitic abjads, the Proto-Sinaitic alphabet. Inscriptions in another minuscule cursive script written on wooden sticks have also been discovered.
Posts: 2560 | From: Somewhere | Registered: May 2012
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posted
I agree with Dana, the original inhabitants were black. It is illogical to believe anything else. However, we need more genetic evidence put forth.
quote:Originally posted by HidayaAkade: I agree with Dana, the original inhabitants were black. It is illogical to believe anything else. However, we need more genetic evidence put forth.
I AGREE AND THAT'S WHAT i agree with her about but my disagreement with her is on thier identity.They never spoke arabic until arabization.
Those who are arabic speakers and are largely arabic in culture are called arabs.
The original south arabians and there civilization do not qualify. They were not arabs because they did not speak arabic and did not have a arabic culture.
Thier MAIN LANGUAGE WAS NOT arabic,so they were not arabs.
This should NOT be hard understand. Later many of the south arabians could be called arabs,but that is because of the brainwashing.
It's called arabization,you know, brainwashing.
Quote- Arab people, also known as Arabs (Arabic: عرب, ʿarab) and Arabians, are a panethnic group primarily inhabiting Western Asia and North Africa. They are identified as such on one or more of genealogical, linguistic, or cultural grounds, with tribal affiliations, and intra-tribal relationships playing an important part of Arab identity. Most however have direct or partial ancestral relation to the nomadic indigenous inhabitants of the Arabian peninsula and the Syrian desert, known as Qahtanite and Adnanite Arabs. After the genesis of Islam in the mid-7th century, most Arabs have been Muslim, spreading the Arab people, Arab language and culture with the Islamic conquests as far as North Africa and Central Asia.
Posts: 2560 | From: Somewhere | Registered: May 2012
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quote:Originally posted by HidayaAkade: I agree with Dana, the original inhabitants were black. It is illogical to believe anything else. However, we need more genetic evidence put forth.
You say that as if genetics can identify race.
The thread Topic: "Strange Bedfellows, or What is Race?" clearly demonstrates that DNA cannot identify race.
Don't you read the threads?
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Firewall: Help these folks first,forget the arabs or the arabized. Some of the arabized could be saved in the long term but many i do not think so,but who knows.
It looks there is not enough in numbers for the original natives that still have thier original languages to reclaim yemen,so some arabized arabians have to see the light to reclaim the southern part of the arabian peninsula if they want it back.
Modern South Arabian languages
The Modern South Arabian (Eastern South Semitic or Eastern South Arabian) languages are spoken mainly by small populations inhabiting the Arabian Peninsula, in Yemen and Oman. Together with the modern Ethiopian Semitic languages, they form the South Semitic sub-branch of the Afro-Asiatic family's Semitic branch.
In his glottochronology-based classification, Alexander Militarev presents the Modern South Arabian languages as a South Semitic branch opposed to a North Semitic branch that includes all the other Semitic languages. They are no longer considered to be descendants of the Old South Arabian language, as was once thought.
Grammar Modern South Arabian languages are known for their apparent archaic Semitic features, especially in their system of phonology. For example, they preserve the lateral fricatives of Proto-Semitic.
Additionally, Militarev identified a Cushitic substratum in Modern South Arabian, which he proposes is evidence that Cushitic speakers originally inhabited the Arabian Peninsula alongside Semitic speakers (Militarev 1984, 18-19; cf. also Belova 2003). According to Václav Blažek, this suggests that Semites assimilated their original Cushitic neighbours to the south who did not later emigrate to the Horn of Africa. He argues that the Levant would thus have been the Proto-Afro-Asiatic Urheimat, from where the various branches of the Afro-Asiatic family subsequently dispersed. To further support this, Blažek cites analysis of rock art in Central Arabia by Anati (1968, 180-84), which notes a connection between the shield-carrying "oval-headed" people depicted on the cave paintings and the Arabian Cushites from the Old Testament, who were similarly described as carrying specific shields.
Types # Mehri: the largest Modern South Arabian languages, with more than 70,000 speakers in Yemen. Of these, more than 50,000 live in Oman, and about 15,000 are situated farther afield in Kuwait due to emigration. The population total for all countries is 135,764 (SIL 2000). The Muslim ethnic group itself is called Mahra.
# Soqotri: another relatively numerous example, with speakers on the island of Socotra isolated from the pressures of Arabic on the Yemeni mainland. According to the 1990 census in Yemen, the number of speakers there was 57,000 (including, perhaps, Soqotris living on the mainland). The population total for all countries (including work emigrants) is estimated at 64,000.
# Shehri: (frequently called Jibbali or "mountain" language), with an estimated 25,000 speakers, is best known as the language of the rebels during the rebellion in Oman's Dhofar province along its border with Yemen in the 1960s and 1970s.
# Bathari: 200 speakers est.
# Harsusi: 1,000–2,000 speakers est., in Oman. # Hobyót: 100 speakers est., in Oman.
References # ^ Blažek, Václav. "Afroasiatic Migrations: Linguistic Evidence". Retrieved 9 May 2013.
There is no such thing as Cushitic Firewall. They found out it Cushitic and Semitic were too similar to be considered separate languages. They are two separate dialects belonging to an Afro-Asiatic group That is the new word. Catch up on your reading.
BTW - early linguists were able to translate the Akkadian because of Somali.
I'm sorry Dana, but here you seem to be venturing out into the zone of pseudo-scholarship to say "there is no such thing as Cushitic"! That's like saying, there is no such thing as "Semitic" or "Berber".
You are correct that Cushitic languages like Somali were used to help in the refinement of translation of Akkadian and other northeast Semitic languages because such languages preserve archaic peculiarities that are found in Afrisian groups like Cushitic, yet that does not change the fact that Cushitic and Semitic are still separate groups within Afrisian!
By the way, the folks in the video you posted are from the Tihama region, and that is not to discount their Arabian ancestry but it's a fact that many in the Tihama have recent African ancestry as well from both voluntary immigration as well as slave trade.
Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by HidayaAkade: I agree with Dana, the original inhabitants were black. It is illogical to believe anything else. However, we need more genetic evidence put forth.
You say that as if genetics can identify race.
The thread Topic: "Strange Bedfellows, or What is Race?" clearly demonstrates that DNA cannot identify race.
Don't you read the threads?
Not to speak for Hidaya, but yes I personally do read threads but not ones created by YOU, as you are an ignoramus who espouses nonsense such as European and Anatolian ('Turkish') paleness being the result of albinism!
And of course DNA can't identify 'race' because 'race' does NOT even exist!! 'Race' is the belief in distinct populations based on phenotypical appearance as well as correlating genetics. The problem is genetics at least those that mark lineages do NOT correlate at all with phenotypic appearance. Hence, no such thing as 'race' and European pale skin is NOT the result of 'albinism' anymore than pale skin in some Asians.
We keep telling your dumbass this, but you refuse to listen. Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Son of Ra: I think the earliest Arabians would obviously resemble Africans since Arabia is a hopscotch away. But that doesn't mean they were genetically related to Africans.
I also think those E-V13 carriers who carried that clade into Europe would have looked like that.
I think many early Arabians looked similar to Dravidians too, firewall - especially the lesser modified Dravidians such as these.
Tamil
Tamil holy man
Arabians of Yemen
Obviously many still do.Tihama Arabian girl
Mahra of Oman and Hadramaut speak the ancient Himyarite Qahtan dialects
BTW we know what early Arabs like Firewall from their rock art. That is what you don't seem to get.
And I am sorry that you don't have access to the studies that show that there is also genetic link of modern Arabians to the peoples of the HORN.
Those studies have been already posted several times on this Egyptsearch forum so maybe you'd better to take the time and go search them out.
BTW - there have been many south Indians of the Austric (Munda) group and Africans brought into Arabia during the Middle Ages. Maybe you don't know that as well.
Again I am not arguing against the early Arabians looking similar to Africans. I've seen those studies and they indicate that Arabs are mostly Eurasian. I know of the link between Arabs and Horners and thats mostly RECENT.
And yes I OBVIOUSLY know about Indians and Africans being in Arabia. I also know about the Axumite Empire occupying parts of southern Arabia and mass migrations of Somalis throughout the ages Arabia. Yes I already know this, but this doesn't mean or prove anything really.
Posts: 1135 | From: Top secret | Registered: Jun 2012
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quote:Originally posted by Son of Ra: Its getting annoying because you're keep making idiotic post.
Son of Ass
Excuse mi? You are frigging new to this board so behave yourself before you get the beating of your life...
Gee, what an Ass!
LOL! By who???
I know I'm not a Swenet, Troll Patrol, Al-Takruri, Djehuti, Explorer or beyoku. But its pretty obvious that the things you and Mike111 are spewing is just laughable.
Not even Lioness takes you two clowns serious.
Get real...
Son of Rats
I gather you are the only one here who considers Lionese an authority, eh?
You are indeed sillier than I would have believed.
Are you also African like your sage Lionese? LOL!
LMAO at this chump!
Was Son of Rats seriously your attempt at being funny???
Come on...Really? A five year old could come up with something better. Also I never said Lioness was a authority or anything like that. I know she is a hidden Eurocentric. But the fact is that shes actually more sane than you and Mike the loon.
And whats up with you and Mike111 thinking that I'm African???? LMAO! I'm actually saying the early Arabs were NOT African. ANd what proof do you have that I am???
Why don't you and your gay lover Mike111 try to prove that the early Arabians WERE related Africans instead of wasting my time.
I'll wait. Meanwhile...
HA!
Posts: 1135 | From: Top secret | Registered: Jun 2012
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quote:Originally posted by HidayaAkade: I agree with Dana, the original inhabitants were black. It is illogical to believe anything else. However, we need more genetic evidence put forth.
You say that as if genetics can identify race.
The thread Topic: "Strange Bedfellows, or What is Race?" clearly demonstrates that DNA cannot identify race.
Don't you read the threads?
Not to speak for Hidaya, but yes I personally do read threads but not ones created by YOU, as you are an ignoramus who espouses nonsense such as European and Anatolian ('Turkish') paleness being the result of albinism!
And of course DNA can't identify 'race' because 'race' does NOT even exist!! 'Race' is the belief in distinct populations based on phenotypical appearance as well as correlating genetics. The problem is genetics at least those that mark lineages do NOT correlate at all with phenotypic appearance. Hence, no such thing as 'race' and European pale skin is NOT the result of 'albinism' anymore than pale skin in some Asians.
We keep telling your dumbass this, but you refuse to listen.
EXACTLY!!! I always try to tell people who believe race exist this very same thing. If there is a such thing as race then why can everyone trace back to African L3???
People who believe race exist normally do not agree with the OOA.
Posts: 1135 | From: Top secret | Registered: Jun 2012
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Not to speak for Hidaya, but yes I personally do read threads but not ones created by YOU, as you are an ignoramus who espouses nonsense such as European and Anatolian ('Turkish') paleness being the result of albinism!
And of course DNA can't identify 'race' because 'race' does NOT even exist!! 'Race' is the belief in distinct populations based on phenotypical appearance as well as correlating genetics. The problem is genetics at least those that mark lineages do NOT correlate at all with phenotypic appearance. Hence, no such thing as 'race' and European pale skin is NOT the result of 'albinism' anymore than pale skin in some Asians.
We keep telling your dumbass this, but you refuse to listen.
Like a child you exclaim - THEY ARE NOT ALBINOS!
But I did not exclaim that they WERE Albinos:
I used scientific method and PROVED that they were Albinos.
What a silly twerp you are.
A serious person would follow suit and try to PROVE that they weren't Albinos. But all you can do is scream: My master is NOT an Albino! My guess is that you still cling to that debunked nonsense about Vitamin "D".
Yes indeed, what a silly twerp you are.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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The Modern South Arabian (Eastern South Semitic or Eastern South Arabian) languages are spoken mainly by small populations inhabiting the Arabian Peninsula, in Yemen and Oman. Together with the modern Ethiopian Semitic languages, they form the South Semitic sub-branch of the Afro-Asiatic family's Semitic branch.
In his glottochronology-based classification, Alexander Militarev presents the Modern South Arabian languages as a South Semitic branch opposed to a North Semitic branch that includes all the other Semitic languages. They are no longer considered to be descendants of the Old South Arabian language, as was once thought.
Grammar Modern South Arabian languages are known for their apparent archaic Semitic features, especially in their system of phonology. For example, they preserve the lateral fricatives of Proto-Semitic.
Additionally, Militarev identified a Cushitic substratum in Modern South Arabian, which he proposes is evidence that Cushitic speakers originally inhabited the Arabian Peninsula alongside Semitic speakers (Militarev 1984, 18-19; cf. also Belova 2003). According to Václav Blažek, this suggests that Semites assimilated their original Cushitic neighbours to the south who did not later emigrate to the Horn of Africa. He argues that the Levant would thus have been the Proto-Afro-Asiatic Urheimat, from where the various branches of the Afro-Asiatic family subsequently dispersed. To further support this, Blažek cites analysis of rock art in Central Arabia by Anati (1968, 180-84), which notes a connection between the shield-carrying "oval-headed" people depicted on the cave paintings and the Arabian Cushites from the Old Testament, who were similarly described as carrying specific shields.
Types # Mehri: the largest Modern South Arabian languages, with more than 70,000 speakers in Yemen. Of these, more than 50,000 live in Oman, and about 15,000 are situated farther afield in Kuwait due to emigration. The population total for all countries is 135,764 (SIL 2000). The Muslim ethnic group itself is called Mahra.
# Soqotri: another relatively numerous example, with speakers on the island of Socotra isolated from the pressures of Arabic on the Yemeni mainland. According to the 1990 census in Yemen, the number of speakers there was 57,000 (including, perhaps, Soqotris living on the mainland). The population total for all countries (including work emigrants) is estimated at 64,000.
# Shehri: (frequently called Jibbali or "mountain" language), with an estimated 25,000 speakers, is best known as the language of the rebels during the rebellion in Oman's Dhofar province along its border with Yemen in the 1960s and 1970s.
# Bathari: 200 speakers est.
# Harsusi: 1,000–2,000 speakers est., in Oman. # Hobyót: 100 speakers est., in Oman.
References # ^ Blažek, Václav. "Afroasiatic Migrations: Linguistic Evidence". Retrieved 9 May 2013.
The above photos show the best representatives of these modern South Semitic groups since historically South Arabia has had an influx of Iranians and then other folks from the north during the Ottoman Empire. This is why even Southern Arabs or Qahtani are by and large mixed looking as well. Only in the rural areas such as the deserts do you find these groups in pristine condition but even that is no safe bet since some have intermarried with foreigners as well!
Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Son of Ra: Originally posted by Djehuti: EXACTLY!!! I always try to tell people who believe race exist this very same thing. If there is a such thing as race then why can everyone trace back to African L3???
People who believe race exist normally do not agree with the OOA.
Ha,ha,ha,ha:
ES's resident geniuses know more than the rest of the world.
Wiki
Race is a classification system used to categorize humans into large and distinct populations or groups by anatomical, cultural, ethnic, genetic, geographical, historical, linguistic, religious, or social affiliation.
Websters
Definition of RACE 1 : a breeding stock of animals 2 a : a family, tribe, people, or nation belonging to the same stock b : a class or kind of people unified by shared interests, habits, or characteristics 3 a : an actually or potentially interbreeding group within a species; also : a taxonomic category (as a subspecies) representing such a group b : breed c : a category of humankind that shares certain distinctive physical traits
Encyclopćdia Britannica
The modern meaning of the term race with reference to humans began to emerge in the 17th century. Since then it has had a variety of meanings in the languages of the Western world. What most definitions have in common is an attempt to categorize peoples primarily by their physical differences. In the United States, for example, the term race generally refers to a group of people who have in common some visible physical traits, such as skin colour, hair texture, facial features, and eye formation. Such distinctive features are associated with large, geographically separated populations, and these continental aggregates are also designated as races, as the “African race,” the “European race,” and the “Asian race.” Many people think of race as reflective of any visible physical (phenotypic) variations among human groups, regardless of the cultural context and even in the absence of fixed racial categories.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
^ Yes, and as you just prove 'race' is a specious concept and thus strictly a socio-cultural term NOT a biological one or one rooted in hard science.
You finally prove my point Mike. Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Son of Ra: Originally posted by Djehuti: EXACTLY!!! I always try to tell people who believe race exist this very same thing. If there is a such thing as race then why can everyone trace back to African L3???
People who believe race exist normally do not agree with the OOA.
Ha,ha,ha,ha:
ES's resident geniuses know more than the rest of the world.
Wiki
Race is a classification system used to categorize humans into large and distinct populations or groups by anatomical, cultural, ethnic, genetic, geographical, historical, linguistic, religious, or social affiliation.
Websters
Definition of RACE 1 : a breeding stock of animals 2 a : a family, tribe, people, or nation belonging to the same stock b : a class or kind of people unified by shared interests, habits, or characteristics 3 a : an actually or potentially interbreeding group within a species; also : a taxonomic category (as a subspecies) representing such a group b : breed c : a category of humankind that shares certain distinctive physical traits
Encyclopćdia Britannica
The modern meaning of the term race with reference to humans began to emerge in the 17th century. Since then it has had a variety of meanings in the languages of the Western world. What most definitions have in common is an attempt to categorize peoples primarily by their physical differences. In the United States, for example, the term race generally refers to a group of people who have in common some visible physical traits, such as skin colour, hair texture, facial features, and eye formation. Such distinctive features are associated with large, geographically separated populations, and these continental aggregates are also designated as races, as the “African race,” the “European race,” and the “Asian race.” Many people think of race as reflective of any visible physical (phenotypic) variations among human groups, regardless of the cultural context and even in the absence of fixed racial categories.
Your post says NOTHING about race being biologically defined. Your last part actually states race is due to certain phenotypes. Phenotypes are not what makes a group.
Again if race is actually biologically defined then please prove why everyone on this Earth can trace their roots back to Africa. Race is only a recent coined term grouping together people with certain phenotypes.
Posts: 1135 | From: Top secret | Registered: Jun 2012
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quote:Originally posted by Son of Ra: Was Son of Rats seriously your attempt at being funny???
Come on...Really? A five year old could come up with something better. Also I never said Lioness was a authority or anything like that. I know she is a hidden Eurocentric. But the fact is that shes actually more sane than you and Mike the loon.
And whats up with you and Mike111 thinking that I'm African???? LMAO! I'm actually saying the early Arabs were NOT African. ANd what proof do you have that I am???
Why don't you and your gay lover Mike111 try to prove that the early Arabians WERE related Africans instead of wasting my time.
I'll wait. Meanwhile...
HA!
LOL Yes well Mikey the simple child is always good for laughs.
As for your challenge. I will say that hg F* the ancestor of hgs I, J, and K is found in significant frequency in Sudan and the only other place it occurs is in Iran. Also hg K* is also found in the Horn to some degree. As for J, like you show J1 has its highest frequency in Yemen, though it is also found substantial frequency in the Horn and especially in Sudan as well. The map you posted probably only shows a certain type of J1 but here is a map below showing the overall J1 distribution based on Sergio et al. (2009)
Also...
The DE haplogroup appeared approximately 50,000 years bp in North East Africa and subsequently split into haplogroup E that spread to Europe and Africa and haplogroup D that rapidly spread along the coastline of India and Asia to North Asia. The IJ haplogroup characterizes part of the second wave of emigration from Africa that occurred via the Middle East 45,000 years bp and defines two branches I and J that emigrated northwards and eastwards into Europe
Well I keep hearing Haplogroup F may be African in origin. I mainly heard that from Troll Patrol when me and him were debating against these Euronuts on another site. But can hg F in Sudan actually just be a mutation to African like what happened to U6?
I don't know, I could be wrong.
Yeah the map I posted shows a certain J1. But Horners really do not carry much J1. And the J1 in Sudanese and Horners could have just been increased by Africans and not Eurasians. For right me right now, J1 is mainly Eurasian in origin.
And correct me if I am wrong, but is your quote saying I and J were carried into Europe by Africans? Or that I and J came from an African haplogroup? Many sources that I've seen state IJ origins is Southwest Asian.
Again correct me if I am wrong.
Edit: Forget last part. Read quote wrong.
Posts: 1135 | From: Top secret | Registered: Jun 2012
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The Modern South Arabian (Eastern South Semitic or Eastern South Arabian) languages are spoken mainly by small populations inhabiting the Arabian Peninsula, in Yemen and Oman. Together with the modern Ethiopian Semitic languages, they form the South Semitic sub-branch of the Afro-Asiatic family's Semitic branch.
In his glottochronology-based classification, Alexander Militarev presents the Modern South Arabian languages as a South Semitic branch opposed to a North Semitic branch that includes all the other Semitic languages. They are no longer considered to be descendants of the Old South Arabian language, as was once thought.
Grammar Modern South Arabian languages are known for their apparent archaic Semitic features, especially in their system of phonology. For example, they preserve the lateral fricatives of Proto-Semitic.
Additionally, Militarev identified a Cushitic substratum in Modern South Arabian, which he proposes is evidence that Cushitic speakers originally inhabited the Arabian Peninsula alongside Semitic speakers (Militarev 1984, 18-19; cf. also Belova 2003). According to Václav Blažek, this suggests that Semites assimilated their original Cushitic neighbours to the south who did not later emigrate to the Horn of Africa. He argues that the Levant would thus have been the Proto-Afro-Asiatic Urheimat, from where the various branches of the Afro-Asiatic family subsequently dispersed. To further support this, Blažek cites analysis of rock art in Central Arabia by Anati (1968, 180-84), which notes a connection between the shield-carrying "oval-headed" people depicted on the cave paintings and the Arabian Cushites from the Old Testament, who were similarly described as carrying specific shields.
Types # Mehri: the largest Modern South Arabian languages, with more than 70,000 speakers in Yemen. Of these, more than 50,000 live in Oman, and about 15,000 are situated farther afield in Kuwait due to emigration. The population total for all countries is 135,764 (SIL 2000). The Muslim ethnic group itself is called Mahra.
# Soqotri: another relatively numerous example, with speakers on the island of Socotra isolated from the pressures of Arabic on the Yemeni mainland. According to the 1990 census in Yemen, the number of speakers there was 57,000 (including, perhaps, Soqotris living on the mainland). The population total for all countries (including work emigrants) is estimated at 64,000.
# Shehri: (frequently called Jibbali or "mountain" language), with an estimated 25,000 speakers, is best known as the language of the rebels during the rebellion in Oman's Dhofar province along its border with Yemen in the 1960s and 1970s.
# Bathari: 200 speakers est.
# Harsusi: 1,000–2,000 speakers est., in Oman. # Hobyót: 100 speakers est., in Oman.
References # ^ Blažek, Václav. "Afroasiatic Migrations: Linguistic Evidence". Retrieved 9 May 2013.
The above photos show the best representatives of these modern South Semitic groups since historically South Arabia has had an influx of Iranians and then other folks from the north during the Ottoman Empire. This is why even Southern Arabs or Qahtani are by and large mixed looking as well. Only in the rural areas such as the deserts do you find these groups in pristine condition but even that is no safe bet since some have intermarried with foreigners as well!
These are nice photos Djehuti. I know I had already posted the Sharqiyah couple shown here.. These people they look typically ancient Arabian much like the rock art from North to south and like many modern groups of Nubia and Sudan and the horn. Yes these Arabians have probably absorbed other groups, and that mixture comes from having lived in Asia for thousands of years.
It is probably the ancestors of such people that are portrayed in the realistic -dynamic style of rock art in ancient Arabia Egypt and Nubia. They were among the creators of the "Sabir" or Afro-Tihama culture.
The thing to remember is that most of these people still occupy both sides of the Red Sea and always have. That is why most of these Sabaeans especially Mahra (Himyarites), Shahra (Azdites)and Bautahara (Bathari) as the colonialist state have traditions of having come from Africa at a remote period.
These people have been merchants around the red sea Indian ocean and Arabian sea for thousands of years and have absorbed the other populations they've traded and come in contact with.
But its remarkable that they still look like the Ethiopic people they were described as by the Greeks, Syrians and later people. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Son of Ra: [qb] I
BTW we know what early Arabs like Firewall from their rock art. That is what you don't seem to get.
And I am sorry that you don't have access to the studies that show that there is also genetic link of modern Arabians to the peoples of the HORN.
Those studies have been already posted several times on this Egyptsearch forum so maybe you'd better to take the time and go search them out.
BTW - there have been many south Indians of the Austric (Munda) group and Africans brought into Arabia during the Middle Ages. Maybe you don't know that as well.
Again I am not arguing against the early Arabians looking similar to Africans. I've seen those studies and they indicate that Arabs are mostly Eurasian. I know of the link between Arabs and Horners and thats mostly RECENT.
A
Now you are starting to irritate me firewall. I said the studies also show that even the MODERN Eurasian inhabitants of Arabia show a link to Ethiopian types. It is due to the presence of Ethiopic types in Arabia extending to Syria and North Arabia where they are displayed in rock art as elongated elegant pastoralist "OVAL HEADED" "NEGROIDS" (as Anati called them) - just as they are in Central Arabia.
That is something I guess you conveniently FORGOT to mention.
These "NEGROIDS" who practiced mock ritual battle carried the spears and SWORDS and SHIELDS characteristic of later typical ARABIAN populations as well.
It is also due to the people who occupied the Sabir culture or AFro-Tehama culture a single cultural region that comprised BOTH SIDES of the red sea. The first ARABS came from both these people, and there is no indication that northern ARabia was occupied by anybody but these BLACKS until the 17th century when Syrian bedouin moved down from the north.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Firewall: Help these folks first,forget the arabs or the arabized. Some of the arabized could be saved in the long term but many i do not think so,but who knows.
It looks there is not enough in numbers for the original natives that still have thier original languages to reclaim yemen,so some arabized arabians have to see the light to reclaim the southern part of the arabian peninsula if they want it back.
Modern South Arabian languages
The Modern South Arabian (Eastern South Semitic or Eastern South Arabian) languages are spoken mainly by small populations inhabiting the Arabian Peninsula, in Yemen and Oman. Together with the modern Ethiopian Semitic languages, they form the South Semitic sub-branch of the Afro-Asiatic family's Semitic branch.
In his glottochronology-based classification, Alexander Militarev presents the Modern South Arabian languages as a South Semitic branch opposed to a North Semitic branch that includes all the other Semitic languages. They are no longer considered to be descendants of the Old South Arabian language, as was once thought.
Grammar Modern South Arabian languages are known for their apparent archaic Semitic features, especially in their system of phonology. For example, they preserve the lateral fricatives of Proto-Semitic.
Additionally, Militarev identified a Cushitic substratum in Modern South Arabian, which he proposes is evidence that Cushitic speakers originally inhabited the Arabian Peninsula alongside Semitic speakers (Militarev 1984, 18-19; cf. also Belova 2003). According to Václav Blažek, this suggests that Semites assimilated their original Cushitic neighbours to the south who did not later emigrate to the Horn of Africa. He argues that the Levant would thus have been the Proto-Afro-Asiatic Urheimat, from where the various branches of the Afro-Asiatic family subsequently dispersed. To further support this, Blažek cites analysis of rock art in Central Arabia by Anati (1968, 180-84), which notes a connection between the shield-carrying "oval-headed" people depicted on the cave paintings and the Arabian Cushites from the Old Testament, who were similarly described as carrying specific shields.
Types # Mehri: the largest Modern South Arabian languages, with more than 70,000 speakers in Yemen. Of these, more than 50,000 live in Oman, and about 15,000 are situated farther afield in Kuwait due to emigration. The population total for all countries is 135,764 (SIL 2000). The Muslim ethnic group itself is called Mahra.
# Soqotri: another relatively numerous example, with speakers on the island of Socotra isolated from the pressures of Arabic on the Yemeni mainland. According to the 1990 census in Yemen, the number of speakers there was 57,000 (including, perhaps, Soqotris living on the mainland). The population total for all countries (including work emigrants) is estimated at 64,000.
# Shehri: (frequently called Jibbali or "mountain" language), with an estimated 25,000 speakers, is best known as the language of the rebels during the rebellion in Oman's Dhofar province along its border with Yemen in the 1960s and 1970s.
# Bathari: 200 speakers est.
# Harsusi: 1,000–2,000 speakers est., in Oman. # Hobyót: 100 speakers est., in Oman.
References # ^ Blažek, Václav. "Afroasiatic Migrations: Linguistic Evidence". Retrieved 9 May 2013.
There is no such thing as Cushitic Firewall. They found out it Cushitic and Semitic were too similar to be considered separate languages. They are two separate dialects belonging to an Afro-Asiatic group That is the new word. Catch up on your reading.
BTW - early linguists were able to translate the Akkadian because of Somali.
I'm sorry Dana, but here you seem to be venturing out into the zone of pseudo-scholarship to say "there is no such thing as Cushitic"! That's like saying, there is no such thing as "Semitic" or "Berber".
You are correct that Cushitic languages like Somali were used to help in the refinement of translation of Akkadian and other northeast Semitic languages because such languages preserve archaic peculiarities that are found in Afrisian groups like Cushitic, yet that does not change the fact that Cushitic and Semitic are still separate groups within Afrisian!
By the way, the folks in the video you posted are from the Tihama region, and that is not to discount their Arabian ancestry but it's a fact that many in the Tihama have recent African ancestry as well from both voluntary immigration as well as slave trade.
I already mentioned earlier today that Cushitic is not a linguistic group Djehuti, but a dialect of a larger group called Afroasiatic. look at the previous posts. I said Akkadian came to be translated due to somali! besides that I have said it several times throughout the years.
But people here as you see are attempting to use the word in order to distinguish Arabs from the Africans.
BTW - I never venture into pseudo scholarship. And I have also stated that many groups having African and south Indian ancestry have come recently into the peninsula through slavery especially during the periods of Turkish rule. Just as many Syrians and Persians once did.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
BTW - the true pseudo science here is people claiming they can use genetics on the current Arab and Berber speaking populations to discover who the ancient Berbers and Arabs were. Arabia has been inundated with the same groups as North Africa and that is why in both places there ARE close genetic ties to the Levant which has itself an interesting mix of Slavic, west European (crusader) and Middle Eastern (Turkish/ old Syrian, Roma/ and Arabian ) populations.
Arabia and especially the Levant is a land of ARABIZED people just as the entirety of North Africa with its mix of THE WORLDS PEOPLES from ANDALUSIA TO CIRCASSIA Romans, Syrians, Greeks, Vandals, Genoans and Lombardic peoples to Central AFrica has been BERBERIZED. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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Firewall you posted this - did you not - about semites and cushites and the oval-headed people. who IN FACT occupied not just Central but north Arabia.
"According to Václav Blažek, this suggests that Semites assimilated their original Cushitic neighbours to the south who did not later emigrate to the Horn of Africa. He argues that the Levant would thus have been the Proto-Afro-Asiatic Urheimat, from where the various branches of the Afro-Asiatic family subsequently dispersed. To further support this, Blažek cites analysis of rock art in Central Arabia by Anati (1968, 180-84), which notes a connection between the shield-carrying "oval-headed" people depicted on the cave paintings and the Arabian Cushites from the Old Testament, who were similarly described as carrying specific shields."
-------------------- D. Reynolds-Marniche Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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BTW Firewall - I think you are not aware that dialect is not the same thing as alphabet. Thus i am having to start with the basics when responding to you, and its getting exhausting.
So Son is getting irritating and you are getting exhausting. which is worse, I wonder.
-------------------- D. Reynolds-Marniche Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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Yes,of course he has a different view where Proto-Asiatic came from,but most likely it came from ethiopia. The main point i posted that was that modern south arabian languages exists.
Posts: 2560 | From: Somewhere | Registered: May 2012
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Dana, I think those two are just goofing. Are you sure that's how you want to spend your time?
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quote:Originally posted by HidayaAkade: I agree with Dana, the original inhabitants were black. It is illogical to believe anything else. However, we need more genetic evidence put forth.
I AGREE AND THAT'S WHAT i agree with her about but my disagreement with her is on thier identity.They never spoke arabic until arabization.
Those who are arabic speakers and are largely arabic in culture are called arabs.
The original south arabians and there civilization do not qualify. They were not arabs because they did not speak arabic and did not have a arabic culture.
Thier MAIN LANGUAGE WAS NOT arabic,so they were not arabs.
This should NOT be hard understand. Later many of the south arabians could be called arabs,but that is because of the brainwashing.
It's called arabization,you know, brainwashing.
Quote- Arab people, also known as Arabs (Arabic: عرب, ʿarab) and Arabians, are a panethnic group primarily inhabiting Western Asia and North Africa. They are identified as such on one or more of genealogical, linguistic, or cultural grounds, with tribal affiliations, and intra-tribal relationships playing an important part of Arab identity. Most however have direct or partial ancestral relation to the nomadic indigenous inhabitants of the Arabian peninsula and the Syrian desert, known as Qahtanite and Adnanite Arabs. After the genesis of Islam in the mid-7th century, most Arabs have been Muslim, spreading the Arab people, Arab language and culture with the Islamic conquests as far as North Africa and Central Asia.
Please stop this Firewall. you don't know enough about the Arab peoples to be posting about them. It is truly silly for me to be responding to you when in fact you can't even name a single Arab tribe outside of what you've just read on Wikipedia within the past few days. I'm talking about Arabs as an early ethnicity while you are talking rhetorically about some Pan Arab sociopolitical view of Middle Easterners that speak Arabic that has nothing to do with early Arabs, their tradition or cultures.
ENOUGH! Give us a break! Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Dana, I think those two are just goofing. Are you sure that's how you want to spend your time?
You are right Michael but I do think Firewall is trying to be serious. Unfortunately I am little slow in discovering even his responses are not worth the time as I am dealing with a real newbie here - but one that doesn't want to learn anything new. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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The term Afroasiatic Urheimat (Urheimat meaning "original homeland" in German) refers to the 'hypothetical' place where Proto-Afroasiatic speakers lived in a single linguistic community, or complex of communities, before this original language dispersed geographically and divided into distinct languages. Afroasiatic languages are today primarily spoken in the Middle East, North Africa, the Horn of Africa, and parts of the Sahel.
There is no agreement on when and where this Urheimat existed, though the language is generally believed to have originated somewhere in the area between the Eastern Sahara and the Horn of Africa, including Egypt, Ethiopia and Sudan.
Posts: 2560 | From: Somewhere | Registered: May 2012
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: European pale skin is NOT the result of 'albinism' anymore than pale skin in some Asians.
We keep telling your dumbass this, but you refuse to listen.
Like a child you exclaim - THEY ARE NOT ALBINOS!
But I did not exclaim that they WERE Albinos:
I used scientific method and PROVED that they were Albinos.
What a silly twerp you are.
A serious person would follow suit and try to PROVE that they weren't Albinos. But all you can do is scream: My master is NOT an Albino! My guess is that you still cling to that debunked nonsense about Vitamin "D".
Yes indeed, what a silly twerp you are.
And nevermore was anything heard from Djehuti on the matter.
So does Djehuti now believe that they're Albinos?
Noooo he does not, because his belief never did have anything to do with science or actuality, it was based on his concepts of superiority. And of course, how can the superior be somebody's defective offspring?
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Firewall: Afroasiatic Urheimat
The term Afroasiatic Urheimat (Urheimat meaning "original homeland" in German) refers to the 'hypothetical' place where Proto-Afroasiatic speakers lived in a single linguistic community, or complex of communities, before this original language dispersed geographically and divided into distinct languages. Afroasiatic languages are today primarily spoken in the Middle East, North Africa, the Horn of Africa, and parts of the Sahel.
There is no agreement on when and where this Urheimat existed, though the language is generally believed to have originated somewhere in the area between the Eastern Sahara and the Horn of Africa, including Egypt, Ethiopia and Sudan.
And...?
Tah- tah, Firewall. Its time to say goodbye and night, night. i am now too bored to stay awake.lol! Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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