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Evolution :: News :: May 15, 2013 :: 3 Comments :: Email :: Print Minoan Civilization Originated in Europe, Not Egypt Ancient DNA suggests that the ancient Cretans descended from Neolithic populations
By Ewen Callaway and Nature magazine
When the British archaeologist Sir Arthur Evans discovered the 4,000-year-old Palace of Minos on Crete in 1900, he saw the vestiges of a long-lost civilization whose artefacts set it apart from later Bronze-Age Greeks. The Minoans, as Evans named them, were refugees from Northern Egypt who had been expelled by invaders from the South about 5,000 years ago, he claimed.
Modern archaeologists have questioned that version of events, and now ancient DNA recovered from Cretan caves suggests that the Minoan civilization emerged from the early farmers who settled the island thousands of years earlier.
The Minoans flourished on Crete for as many as 12 centuries until about 1,500 bc, when it is thought to have been devastated by a catastrophic eruption of the Mediterranean island volcano Santorini, and a subsequent tsunami. They are widely recognized as one of Europe's first 'high cultures', renowned for their pottery, metal-work and colourful frescoes. Their civilization fuelled Greek myths such as the story of the Minotaur, the half-man, half-bull creature who lived in a labyrinth.
Evans was among the first to explore Crete after it gained independence from the Ottoman Empire in 1898. His team discovered the 4,000-year-old Palace of Minos, and uncovered artefacts very different from those of Bronze Age Greece, including thick-walled circular tombs that bore a resemblance to those of ancient North Africans, and still-undeciphered scripts dubbed Linear A and Cretan hieroglyphs.
Others have suggested that the Minoans originated in the Middle East, modern-day Turkey or the Mediterranean. Genetic studies of modern Cretans have come to little consensus.
George Stamatoyannopoulos, a geneticist at the University of Washington in Seattle who has been working on the problem for more than a decade, hoped that he could settle the debate by looking at the DNA of the long-dead Minoans. “One of my motivations when I started the whole thing was to see whether Sir Arthur Evans was right or not,” he says.
Stamatoyannopoulos's team assembled bone and tooth samples from more than 100 individuals who lived on Crete between 4,900 and 3,800 years ago. Of these, 37 yielded mitochondrial DNA, which is passed down in the maternal line. The team analysed the samples in two different laboratories — a quality-control method common in ancient DNA work.
Cultural exchange The Minoan samples possessed 21 different mitochondrial DNA markers, including 6 unique to Minoans and 15 common in modern, Bronze Age and Neolithic European populations. None of the Minoans possessed mitochondrial markers similar to those of present-day African populations. The results are published online today in Nature Communications.
It is likely, says Stamatoyannopoulos, that the Minoans descended from Neolithic populations that migrated to Europe from the Middle East and Turkey. Archaeological excavations suggest that early farmers were living in Crete by around 9,000 years ago, so these could be the ancestors of the Minoans. Similarities between Minoan and Egyptian artefacts were probably the result of cultural exchanges across the navigable Mediterranean Sea, rather than wholesale migrations, he adds.
Wolfgang Haak, a molecular archaeologist at the University of Adelaide in Australia, thinks that Crete’s early history is probably more complicated, with multiple Neolithic populations arriving at different times. “It's nevertheless good to see some data — if authentic — from this region of Europe contributing to the big and complex puzzle,” he says.
Stamatoyannopoulos notes that his team’s findings are limited, because mitochondrial DNA represents only a single maternal lineage for each individual — a mother’s mother, and so on. With Johannes Krause, a palaeogeneticist at the University of Tubingen in Germany, the team now plans to sequence the nuclear genomes of Minoans and other ancients to learn more about their history.
“For the last 30, 40 years there’s been a growing sense that Minoan Crete was created by people indigenous to the island,” says Cyprian Broodbank, a Mediterranean archaeologist at University College London. He welcomes the latest line of support for this hypothesis. “It’s good to have some of the old assumptions that Minoans migrated from some other high culture scotched,” he says.
None of the Minoans possessed mitochondrial markers similar to those of present-day African populations. The results are published online today in Nature Communications.
There is an Albino lie there, I just can't be bothered to research it. I mean what, they came from Mars?
Wolfgang Haak, a molecular archaeologist at the University of Adelaide in Australia, thinks that Crete’s early history is probably more complicated, with multiple Neolithic populations arriving at different times. “It's nevertheless good to see some data — if authentic — from this region of Europe contributing to the big and complex puzzle,” he says.
Stamatoyannopoulos notes that his team’s findings are limited, because mitochondrial DNA represents only a single maternal lineage for each individual — a mother’s mother, and so on. With Johannes Krause, a palaeogeneticist at the University of Tubingen in Germany, the team now plans to sequence the nuclear genomes of Minoans and other ancients to learn more about their history.
“For the last 30, 40 years there’s been a growing sense that Minoan Crete was created by people indigenous to the island,” says Cyprian Broodbank, a Mediterranean archaeologist at University College London. He welcomes the latest line of support for this hypothesis. “It’s good to have some of the old assumptions that Minoans migrated from some other high culture scotched,” he says.
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Mike you stupid White people hating, wanna exterminate Whitey, Black racist moronic pile of cow dung, DNA don't lie you waste of space. You just don't want to admit you were lying & were wrong. Again DNA DON'T LIE, these people were in fact White as evidenced by this study and DNA DON'T LIE!!!!
Posts: 3257 | From: Madisonville, KY USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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Cretians are African migrants. T-rex has a thread on it already.
Check out the data. They have the media in their control to spread their delusional lies.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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The Minoans were not Egyptians...
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by DHDoxies: Mike you stupid White people hating, wanna exterminate Whitey, Black racist moronic pile of cow dung, DNA don't lie you waste of space. You just don't want to admit you were lying & were wrong. Again DNA DON'T LIE, these people were in fact White as evidenced by this study and DNA DON'T LIE!!!!
HA,HA,HA,HA:
WHITE????
Doxie dear, which part of the study said or even IMPLIED that they were WHITE????
From early on I knew that there were delusional Albinos like yourself, and lying Albino scientists, so I assured myself access to a wealth of ancient artifacts for occasions just like this one:
Now then Doxie dear, please post pictures of Albinos who look like the people below.
quote:Originally posted by DHDoxies: Mike you stupid White people hating, wanna exterminate Whitey, Black racist moronic pile of cow dung, DNA don't lie you waste of space. You just don't want to admit you were lying & were wrong. Again DNA DON'T LIE
European Descendants Carry Brunt of New (BAD) Gene Mutations
Almost three quarters of gene mutations occurred within the last 5 to 10 millennia of humans’ 200,000 years existence, and those of European descent have most of the harmful ones, an analysis of people in the U.S. showed.
About 14 percent of mutations scientists identified were found to be harmful, according to a gene study of 6,500 Americans published today in the journal Nature. About 86 percent of those variants arose in people with European heritage in the last 5,000 years, the research found.
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Mike the study said their mitochondrial DNA is akin to modern day Europeans especially the modern day Cretans who happen to be WHITE. Again DNA DON'T LIE HEHEHEHEHE.
Posts: 3257 | From: Madisonville, KY USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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quote:Originally posted by DHDoxies: Mike the study said their mitochondrial DNA is akin to modern day Europeans especially the modern day Cretans who happen to be WHITE. Again DNA DON'T LIE HEHEHEHEHE.
Doxie dear, I just don't understand;
For years I have been having my way with you poor hapless lying, delusional Albinos. Yet you idiots still try to play me - how can you be THAT stupid?
Oh, BTW - WHERE IS THE "ACTUAL" STUDY?
Article: Mysterious Minoans Were European, DNA Finds
Tia Ghose, LiveScience Staff Writer Date: 14 May 2013 Time: 11:00 AM ET
Ancient language?
The findings suggest that the ancient Minoans were likely descended from a branch of agriculturalists in Anatolia (what is now modern-day Turkey and Iraq) that fanned out into Europe about 9,000 years ago. If so, the Minoans may have spoken a proto-Indo-European language derived from the one possibly spoken by those Anatolian farmers, the researchers speculate.
The lying Albinos said that they were Europeans from Anatolia. But Anatolia is NOT part of Europe, and the people of Anatolia were as Black as from anywhere else.
The claim that the dna studied in this paper was of the ancient Minoans is a joke. Historians have known for years that the original Cretans were replaced by an Indo-European population after 1500 BC, as a result, we have Linear A, written by the original Minoans, and Linear B written by the Indo-Aryan speaking Minoans.
The people in this study were mainly Indo-European speakers. In the Supplement, the authors make it clear that they used dna from Lassithi cave sample. This dna is roughly dated to "1800" BC. The dna is probably much younger and as a result, it would reflect the invading Indo-European population not the Keftiu=Eteo-Cretans/Eteo-Minoans.
This dna study is just an attempt to protray the Cretans as non-Africa. The dna evidence disputes this myth, because most belong to haplogroups H and U5.
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Poor lil Black racist White people haters just can't accept that this study proves them wrong. They just can't accept any study that doesn't demean, degrade, belittle, dehumanize Whites LOL.
The DNA DOESN'T LIE LOL ROTFLMBO.
Posts: 3257 | From: Madisonville, KY USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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The Pelasgians founded many cities. The Pelasgian founding of Athens is noted by Plutarch in Theseus 12, and Ovid in Metamorphosis vii, 402 ff. According to Herodotus vii.91, the Pelasgians also founded Thebes. Many of these Athenians may have introduced the Geometric style to Greece during the so-called Dark Ages (1200- 600 BC).
Winters (1983b) makes it clear that the Garamantes founded the Greek cities of Thrace, Minoan Crete and Attica. The Garamantes were also called Carians by the Indo-European Greeks.
The Garamantes or Carians originally lived in the Fezzan. These Garamante were described by the Latin classical writers as black or dark skinned: perusti (Lucan 4.679), furvi (Arnoloius, Adversus Nationes , 6.5) and nigri (Anthologia Latina, 155,no.183).
Some of the first African colonists to arrive in Greece came from Crete. These Cretans were called Garamantes. After the goddess Ker or Car, these people also came to be also known as the Carians. The Carians spoke a Mande languages.
A Cretan boat from Thera These people usually sailed to the Islands in Aegean and the surrounding coast were they established prosperous trading communities.
There is frequent mention of the Garamantes of the Fezzan, in Classical literature of Greece and Rome. The Garamantes were recognized as a Black tribe. They were known to the Greeks and Romans as dark skinned. In Ptolemy (I.8.5.,p.31) a Garamante slave was described as having a body the color of pitch or wholly black.
Graves (1980) and Leo Frobenius linked the Garamante to the ancient empire of Ghana (c.300 BC to A.D. 1100). Graves (1980) claims that the term Garamante is the Greek plural for Garama or Garamas. He said that the present Jarama or Jarma are the descendants of the Garamante; and that the Jarama live near the Niger river.
The Olympian creation myth, as recorded by Pindar in Fragment , and Apollonius Rhodius, makes it clear that the Garamantes early colonized Greece. Their descendants were called Carians. The Carians practiced apiculture. As in Africa the Carians practiced matrilineal descent. According to Herodotus , even up until his time the Carians took the name of their mother.
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The Ancient Minoans: Keftiu were Mande Speakers
Every since Arthur Evans discovered the Hieroglyphic and Linear A writing of Crete there has been a search for the authors of this writing.
Some Grecian traditions indicate that Libyans (called Garamante) formerly lived on Crete. This suggest that some of the Eteocretans may have spoken one of the ancient languages of Libya.
A major group from Libya that settled Crete were the Garamante. Robert Graves in (Vol.1, pp.33-35) maintains that the Garamante who originally lived in the Fezzan fused with the inhabitants of the Upper Niger region of West Africa.
This theory is interesting because the chariot routes from the Fezzan terminated at the Niger river. In addition, the Cretan term for king "Minos", agrees with the MandeManding word for ruler "Mansa". Both these terms share consonantal agreement : M N S.
The name Garamante, illustrates affinity to Mande morphology and grammar. The Mande language is a member of the Niger-Congo group of languages. The name for the Manding tribe called "Mande", means Ma 'mother, and nde 'children', can be interpreted as "Children of Ma", or "Mothers children " (descent among this group is matrilineal) . The word Garamante,can be broken down into Malinke-Bambara into the following monosyllabic words Ga 'hearth', arid, hot'; Mante/Mande , the name of the Mande speaking tribes. This means that the term: Garamante, can be interpreted as "Mande of the Arid lands" or "Arid lands of the children of Ma". This last term is quite interesting because by the time the Greeks and Romans learned about the Garamante, the Fezzan was becoming increasingly arid.
Keftiu
The root kef-, in Keftiu, probably is Ke'be, the name of a Manding clan , plus the locative suffix {i-} used to give the affirmative sense, plus the plural suffix for names {u-}, and the {-te} suffixial element used to denote place names, nationalities and to form words.
On the Egyptian writing board there are eight Keftiu names. These names agree with Manding names:
Keftiu....... Manding
sh h.r........ Sye
Nsy ..........Nsye
'ksh .........Nkyi
Pnrt Pe,..... Beni (name for twins)
'dm ..........Demba
Rs............. Rsa
This analogy between Keftiu and Manding names is startling.
In conclusion, the evidence of similarity between Keftiu names and names from the Manding languages appear to support Graves view that the Eteocretans, who early settled Crete may have spoken a language similar to the Mande people who live near the Niger. Conseqently, there is every possibility that the Linear A script used by the Keftiu, which is analogous to the Libyco Berber writing used by the Proto-Mande .This is further support to Cambell-Dunn' s hypothesis that the Minoans spoke a Niger-Congo language.
See my movie discussing the African heritage of Socretes,Homer and the heroes of Homer's work.
quote:Originally posted by IronLion: Crete and Malta Islands are in Africa, geographically speaking....
Um...No. The Crete islands are a part of the Greek islands and Malta is a archipelago a part of Southern Europe. Neither are a part of Africa but Mediterranean/Southern Europe...
Posts: 1135 | From: Top secret | Registered: Jun 2012
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quote:Originally posted by DHDoxies: Poor lil Black racist White people haters just can't accept that this study proves them wrong. They just can't accept any study that doesn't demean, degrade, belittle, dehumanize Whites LOL.
The DNA DOESN'T LIE LOL ROTFLMBO.
But Racists like you do......
You’re right DNA don’t lie. The highest concentration of U5 is found among Berbers in NWA . It is also carried by Mande and Fulani Niger-Congo speakers in West Africa (1-4).
The U5 haplogroup carried by the Mande, like other SSWA is characterized by 16189,16192,16270 and 16320. The presence of hg U5 among the Mande speakers supports the linguistic evidence concerning the Keftiu. References
1. Cerný V., Hajek M., Bromova M., Cmejla R., Diallo I. & Brdicka R. 2006. MtDNA of Fulani nomads and their genetic relationships to neighboring sedentary populations. Hum. Biol., 78: 9-27.
2. Rosa A, Brehem A. 2011. African human mtDNA phylogeography at-a-glance. J. Anthropol. Sci, 89:25-58.
3. Coia V., Destro-Bisol G., Verginelli F., Battaggia C., Boschi I., Cruciani F., Spedini G., Comas D. & Calafell F. 2005. Brief communication: mtDNA variation in North Cameroon: lack of Asian lineages and implications for back migration from Asia to sub-Saharan Africa. Am. J. Phys. Anthropol., 128: 678-681.
4. Ely B., Wilson J.L., Jackson F. & Jackson B.A. 2006. African-American mitochondrial DNAs often match mtDNAs found in multiple African ethnic groups. BMC. Biol., 4: 34. .
Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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U5 is NOT an African clade. And where has it even been stated that Berbers carry the highest concentration of U5??? It was mostly brought to NWA by Europeans either enslaved or prior(Vandal/Roman).
And speaking of racism...Yku shouldn't call her a racist when you try to claim almost everyone as African using your lame pseudo so called scholarship.
Posts: 1135 | From: Top secret | Registered: Jun 2012
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quote:Originally posted by Son of Ra: U5 is NOT an African class. And where has it even been stated that Berbers carry the highest concentration of U5??? It was mostly brought to NWA by Europeans either enslaved or prior(Vandal/Roman).
And speaking of racism...Yku shouldn't call her a racist when you try to claim almost everyone as African using your lame pseudo so called scholarship.
Son of Ra, First of all, both you and Doxie try to suggest that if it isn't African then it's WHITE not Black. Are you really that stupid? We spent previous day arguing studies which show you people are NOT native to Europe, now with this latest Albino lie, you're Europeans again? BTW - Which part of Cretan artifacts look White to you?
As to Mtdna U5, there is a host of certifiably Black skeletons in central Europe and England which are U5, so where are you going with that?
Haplogroup U is found in approximately 11% of native Europeans.
(Question idiots - How does 11% make it a European haplogroup? That Albino scientists LIED, didn't he)!
Haplogroup U is subdivided into Haplogroups U1-U8. Haplogroup K is a subclade of U8. The old age has led to a wide distribution of the descendant subgroups across Western Eurasia, North Africa, and South Asia. Some subclades of U have a more specific geographic range.
Please note how common U5 was before the Albinos came.
Chandler 2005 found it in Portugal - Ibero-Maurusian culture 10,000 BC.
Bramanti 2009 found it in Russia 8,000 BC.
Also in Germany, Lithuania, Poland, Sweden, France, Denmark, Greece, Ireland (All before 2,000 BC.)
As I have written previously, as the new Albinos migrated in, the local Blacks took the Albino females and mated with them. That is why Whites have U5.
Tacitus alludes to this in his histories.
This is the Iceman, he is U5, which part of him looks Albino?
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ausar - lioness last post obviously has no point and is not Germain to the subject. The degenerate creature is clearly trying to derail the thread, and thus save the Albinos from having to face truth and reality. Is there nothing that you can do?
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by IronLion: Crete and Malta Islands are in Africa, geographically speaking....
Um...No. The Crete islands are a part of the Greek islands and Malta is a archipelago a part of Southern Europe. Neither are a part of Africa but Mediterranean/Southern Europe...
Pitiful Dunce. Malta was stolen from Africa and placed into the European sphere following 150 years of British colonization and about 650 years of occupation by the crusaders.
Why did the British pass the law posted below?
quote: A British law of 1801 (“Malta Act”, 41 Geo 3, c103): “… the said island of Malta and dependencies thereof shall be deemed taken, and construed to be part of Europe for all purposes, and as to all matters and things whatever; any law or laws, usage or custom, or Act or Acts …”
How many other European countries have such laws?
The British passed this law to formally steal Malta. Just like they tried to steal Falklands in Argentina, South Africa, Egypt, even Ethiopia...
The original language of Malta is semitic dialect. Did you know semitic originates from Ethiopia?
How many European tribes speak a semitic language? How many European countries speak semitic?
Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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Your post states absolutely about NWA Berbers carrying high frequencies of U5. Which I only asked for. -__-
Where is the proof that NWA carry high frequencies of U5 and where is the proof that it even came from Africa?
Posts: 1135 | From: Top secret | Registered: Jun 2012
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Where is proof that Semitic originated in Ethiopia? The 'Semitic' language that is actually spoken in Ethiopia is Arab, which came from the peninsula. So Where is your proof? Saying the Malta was originally African just because the people spoke Semitic is void at best.
Posts: 1135 | From: Top secret | Registered: Jun 2012
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Mike if I remember right Son Of Ra has already told you he is NOT White but is Black. Again show me the evidence that says Whites came from Central Asia, you can't because you have NONE. We Whites are the indigenous Europeans. BTW, Cheddar Man's nose bridge is completely BROKEN off, if he had his nose bridge intact he would have the classic tear drop shape of the nose of a typical White skull and you know it. Come on now Mike how the heck can you say Otzi is Black his skin is pale, just a bit darker than the Scythian Ice Princess who the Central Asian people claim as one of their own.
BTW, H is the most common Mitochondrial DNA haplogroup in modern Euros how the heck do you explain that if its a Black haplogroup Clyde?
Posts: 3257 | From: Madisonville, KY USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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Where is proof that Semitic originated in Ethiopia? The 'Semitic' language that is actually spoken in Ethiopia is Arab, which came from the peninsula. So Where is your proof? Saying the Malta was originally African just because the people spoke Semitic is void at best.
Hehe.. you are as empty as I suspected. Here read this, the origin of Semitic languages:
Your post states absolutely about NWA Berbers carrying high frequencies of U5. Which I only asked for. -__-
Where is the proof that NWA carry high frequencies of U5 and where is the proof that it even came from Africa?
You are confused, I said nothing about NWA, which I assume to be North West Africa. However, the Wiki clearly identified North Africa as part of the range.
As to what proof that it came from Africa:
ARE YOU SERIOUS???
Please see anybodies haplogroup tree.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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Where is proof that Semitic originated in Ethiopia? The 'Semitic' language that is actually spoken in Ethiopia is Arab, which came from the peninsula. So Where is your proof? Saying the Malta was originally African just because the people spoke Semitic is void at best.
Hehe.. you are as empty as I suspected. Here read this, the origin of Semitic languages:
I can fill your head up with purer and more beautiful knowledge not the crap you have been fed in albino schools.
Now answer me, how many European peoples claim to be original semites?
Although Malta is now considered a part of Europe due to British colonial laws, geographically it is located farther south than African Tunis, capital of Tunisia, Algiers, capital of Algeria, Tangier in Morocco and also Aleppo in Syria, and Mosul in Iraq in the Middle East.
Here is the map of Malta and Crete relative to other African countries and capital.
Do you understand anything now?
Any Muur questions?? Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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quote:Originally posted by DHDoxies: Cheddar Man's nose bridge is completely BROKEN off, if he had his nose bridge intact he would have the classic tear drop shape of the nose of a typical White skull and you know it.
He,he,he:
Victory is complete, the Albinos scurrilously lie, all the while convincing themselves, and each other, that their lies are truth - how sad they are.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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Nope Mike afraid that would be You and your Black racist ilk who do that. You just don't want to admit to your deceptions & untruths. You think it would be funny to see White children walking around not knowing who they are, where they came from, who their ancestors were. You think it would be funny to see White children walking around thinking they have no identity, no heritage, no history, no homeland to call their own, nothing to be proud of as a people out of your hatred for us & your desire to harm them. Funny I see no White members of this forum using racist epithets towards Blacks but you & your ilk use them every dang post.
Again the DNA DON'T LIE HEHEHEHEHEHE, you just can't bring yourself to admit it.
Posts: 3257 | From: Madisonville, KY USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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Where is proof that Semitic originated in Ethiopia? The 'Semitic' language that is actually spoken in Ethiopia is Arab, which came from the peninsula. So Where is your proof? Saying the Malta was originally African just because the people spoke Semitic is void at best.
Hehe.. you are as empty as I suspected. Here read this, the origin of Semitic languages:
I can fill your head up with purer and more beautiful knowledge not the crap you have been fed in albino schools.
Now answer me, how many European peoples claim to be original semites?
We used Bayesian phylogenetic methods to elucidate the relationships and divergence dates of Semitic languages, which we then related to epigraphic and archaeological records to produce a comprehensive hypothesis of Semitic origins and dispersals after the divergence of ancestral Semitic from Afroasiatic in Africa (figure 1). We estimate that: (i) Semitic had an Early Bronze Age origin (approx. 5750 YBP) in the Levant, followed by an expansion of Akkadian into Mesopotamia; (ii) Central and South Semitic diverged earlier than previously thought throughout the Levant during the Early to Middle Bronze Age transition; and (iii) Ethiosemitic arose as the result of a single, possibly pre-Aksumite, introduction of a lineage from southern Arabia to the Horn of Africa approximately 2800 YBP. Furthermore, we employed the first use of log BFs to statistically test competing language histories and provide support for a Near Eastern origin of Semitic. Our inferences shed light on the complex history of Semitic, address key questions about Semitic origins and dispersals, and provide important hypotheses to test with new data and analyses. Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2839953/
It And doesn't matter what European claim. Semitic people originate in the near east.
Posts: 1135 | From: Top secret | Registered: Jun 2012
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Your post states absolutely about NWA Berbers carrying high frequencies of U5. Which I only asked for. -__-
Where is the proof that NWA carry high frequencies of U5 and where is the proof that it even came from Africa?
You are confused, I said nothing about NWA, which I assume to be North West Africa. However, the Wiki clearly identified North Africa as part of the range.
As to what proof that it came from Africa:
ARE YOU SERIOUS???
Please see anybodies haplogroup tree.
1. You quoted the post of mines where I ask clyde to prove that Berbers from Northwest Africa(NWA) carry the highest amount of U5 clades. 2. I want proof that U5 came from Africa and NWA Berbers carry the highest amount.
Thats all I'm asking.
Posts: 1135 | From: Top secret | Registered: Jun 2012
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I suspected he was empty based upon some of his earlier post. Now I will be entertained ...
quote:Originally posted by IronLion:
quote:Originally posted by Son of Ra: @ IronLion
Where is proof that Semitic originated in Ethiopia? The 'Semitic' language that is actually spoken in Ethiopia is Arab, which came from the peninsula. So Where is your proof? Saying the Malta was originally African just because the people spoke Semitic is void at best.
Hehe.. you are as empty as I suspected. Here read this, the origin of Semitic languages:
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U5 is African - Fulanis carry ancestral U5. Europeans do not - L Parerria et al(posted on ESR)
Tunisians and other North Africans carry H - with an older coalesence age cf to Europeans. Achilli et al
By the way -correction-
Otzi ice man is MtDNA K Ermini et al(currently unassigned- affinity not known). And nrDNA(male) hgG-169(?) rare but most likely East African or North African.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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No one still hasn't proven U5 originated from Africa, but more worthless insults. Posts: 1135 | From: Top secret | Registered: Jun 2012
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-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by DHDoxies: Poor lil Black racist White people haters just can't accept that this study proves them wrong. They just can't accept any study that doesn't demean, degrade, belittle, dehumanize Whites LOL.
The DNA DOESN'T LIE LOL ROTFLMBO.
But Racists like you do......
As usual, scientific sounding and "looks like" footnotes but in fact U5 is prmarily an European haplogroup and North Africans have it in very small amounts probably due to a back migration see
quote:The age of U5 is estimated at 30-50,000 years.[13] Approximately 11% of total Europeans and 10% of European-Americans are in haplogroup U5. U5 has been found in human remains dating from the Mesolithic in England, Germany, Lithuania, Poland, Portugal, Russia,[14] Sweden,[15] France [16] and Spain. [17] Haplogroup U5 and its subclades U5a and U5b form the highest population concentrations in the far north, in Sami, Finns, and Estonians, but it is spread widely at lower levels throughout Europe. This distribution, and the age of the haplogroup, indicate individuals from this haplogroup were part of the initial expansion tracking the retreat of ice sheets from Europe ~10kya. Haplogroup U5 is found also in small frequencies and at much lower diversity in the Near East and parts of northern Africa (areas with sizable U6 concentrations), suggesting back-migration of people from Europe to the south.[18]
You’re right DNA don’t lie. The highest concentration of U5 is found among Berbers in NWA . It is also carried by Mande and Fulani Niger-Congo speakers in West Africa (1-4).
The U5 haplogroup carried by the Mande, like other SSWA is characterized by 16189,16192,16270 and 16320. The presence of hg U5 among the Mande speakers supports the linguistic evidence concerning the Keftiu. References
1. Cerný V., Hajek M., Bromova M., Cmejla R., Diallo I. & Brdicka R. 2006. MtDNA of Fulani nomads and their genetic relationships to neighboring sedentary populations. Hum. Biol., 78: 9-27.
2. Rosa A, Brehem A. 2011. African human mtDNA phylogeography at-a-glance. J. Anthropol. Sci, 89:25-58.
3. Coia V., Destro-Bisol G., Verginelli F., Battaggia C., Boschi I., Cruciani F., Spedini G., Comas D. & Calafell F. 2005. Brief communication: mtDNA variation in North Cameroon: lack of Asian lineages and implications for back migration from Asia to sub-Saharan Africa. Am. J. Phys. Anthropol., 128: 678-681.
4. Ely B., Wilson J.L., Jackson F. & Jackson B.A. 2006. African-American mitochondrial DNAs often match mtDNAs found in multiple African ethnic groups. BMC. Biol., 4: 34. .
Where is proof that Semitic originated in Ethiopia? The 'Semitic' language that is actually spoken in Ethiopia is Arab, which came from the peninsula. So Where is your proof? Saying the Malta was originally African just because the people spoke Semitic is void at best.
Hehe.. you are as empty as I suspected. Here read this, the origin of Semitic languages:
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: As for the fisherman, his skin color may be similar, but the concave facial profile of that fisherman is typically European, and has nothing to do with how Egyptians depicted themselves, whatsoever.
I already made my views known regarding the Ancient Med convention of using excessively dark colors in the absence of assimilation of black skinned groups. Either the man was painted using the Egyptian convention, or they tried to depict the idea of a suntanned person when they painted the figure, or they used the color because he was imagined to have had African ancestry.
Either way, his facial features are typical of Europeans, not Africans,
Albinos are Totally bankrupt, now you argue the features of "Stylized" drawings, not lifelike paintings mind you, but "Stylized" drawings".
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I honestly could give two shits either way about the Minoans, only someone in desperation would care about the Minoans over Egypt. That said we have clear images of how the Egyptians themselves depicted the Cretans.
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: What’s up brotha? I smell fear. I got you.
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: The Minoans were not Egyptians...
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Amenhotep III and Queen Tiye Enthroned Beneath a Kiosk, Tomb of Anen ca. 1390–1352 B.C. Egypt; Thebes, Sheikh Abd el-Qurna, Tomb of Anen (TT 120), MMA graphic expedition 1931 Medium: Tempera on paper Dimensions: facsimile
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Amenhotep III and Queen Tiye Enthroned Beneath a Kiosk, Tomb of Anen ca. 1390–1352 B.C. Egypt; Thebes, Sheikh Abd el-Qurna, Tomb of Anen (TT 120), MMA graphic expedition 1931 Medium: Tempera on paper Dimensions: facsimile
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KEFTIU at Abydos, Ramses Temple
I don't even care for this, agree or disagree.
But, how is it that he is so dark skinned and others from the same "small" settlement, are pale with blonde hair?
It doesn't match. It doesn't add up. Explain this about your Greek people.
The Narmer Palette boasts one of the earliest depictions of a king smiting his enemies. In the second and first millennia B.C., this image symbolized royal power throughout the eastern Mediterranean. On a wall of a temple to Amun at Medinet Habu, in Thebes, Pharaoh Ramesses III (1184–1153 B.C.) pummels an enemy.
The Narmer Palette boasts one of the earliest depictions of a king smiting his enemies. In the second and first millennia B.C., this image symbolized royal power throughout the eastern Mediterranean. The center of a seventh-century B.C., 8-inch-wide silver bowl from Idalion, on Cyprus, also shows a king about to strike an enemy with a mace.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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Thank you for bringing this up lioness: For a while I have been wanting to address this issue but was unsure if our cohorts had acquired the necessary analytical sophistication to deal with this.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Amenhotep III and Queen Tiye Enthroned Beneath a Kiosk, Tomb of Anen ca. 1390–1352 B.C. Egypt; Thebes, Sheikh Abd el-Qurna, Tomb of Anen (TT 120), MMA graphic expedition 1931 Medium: Tempera on paper Dimensions: facsimile
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Anyway, here goes:
Please note the typical ass-hole Albinos depiction of a Black person.
For more like this just search for Cass's posts.
Now lets look at some ancient Egyptians depictions of Nubians:
Notice that the depictions above are normal looking and respectful.
Now compare those to these:
. Don't the above pictures look like Albino boy CHARACTERTURES, rather than something that Egyptians would have done?
Sorry to have to break it to you, but those are racist fakes created by Albinos.
BTW - The two pictures above were taken from Matildas site.
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