Ludovico di Varthema, also known as Barthema and Vertomannus (c. 1470 – 1517), was an Italian traveller, diarist and aristocrat known for being the first non-Muslim European to enter Mecca as a pilgrim. Nearly everything that is known about his life comes from his own account of his travels, Itinerario de Ludouico de Varthema Bolognese, published in Rome in 1510.
Title page of the first Dutch translation of the travels of Ludovico di Varthema, 1654.
The king of Cambay (in present day Gujarat), painted by Ludovico di Varthema between 1502 and 1508 CE.
Varthema left Europe near the end of 1502. Early in 1503, he reached Alexandria and ascended the Nile to Cairo. From Egypt, he sailed to Beirut and thence travelled to Tripoli, Aleppo and Damascus, where he managed to get himself enrolled, under the name of Yunas (Jonah), in the Mamluk garrison. From Damascus, Varthema made the pilgrimage to Mecca and Medina as one of the Mamluk escort of the Hajj caravan (April–June 1503).
He describes the sacred cities of Islam and the chief pilgrim sites and ceremonies with remarkable accuracy, almost all his details being confirmed by later writers.
With the view of reaching India, he embarked at Jeddah, a city-port around 80 km west to Mecca, and sailed down the Red Sea and through the Straits of Bab-el-Mandeb to Aden, where he was arrested and imprisoned as a Christian spy. By his own account, he gained his liberty after imprisonment both at Aden and Radaa because of a love affair with one of the sultanas of Yemen.[1] Later, he made an extensive tour in south-west Arabia (visiting San‘a’), and took ship at Aden for the Persian Gulf and India. On the way, he alighted at Zeila and Berbera in Somalia. He then in early 1504 traveled to the Indian port of Diu in Gujarat, which later became famous as a Portuguese fortress.
Though it is generally believed that 'Omar, on his succession to the Khalifate a.d. 634, availed himself of this proviso to banish the Jews from the country, in order to execute an injunction said to have been feminine voice, and are more black than any other colour. They live entirely upon the flesh of sheep, and eat nothing else. They are circumcised, and confess that they are Jews; and if they can get a Moor into their hands, they skin him alive. At the foot of the said mountain we found a tank of water, which is water that falls in the rainy season. We loaded with the said water 16,000 camels, whereat the Jews were ill-pleased ; and they went about that mountain like wild goats, and on no account would they descend into the plain, because they are mortal enemies of the Moors.
Two days afterwards, the Sultan took the field, and marched to the said city Sana (capital of yemen) with his army, in which there were three thousand horsemen, sons of Christians, as black as Moors. They were of those of Prester John, 2 whom they
INTRODUCTION.
Partiality of the Women of Arabia for White Men." What else, indeed, could reasonably be expected ? Brought up without education, confined to the seclu- sion of the women's apartments, and debarred from sharing in public amusements, it is not surprising that the uncultivated mind of eastern females should follow its natural bent, and seek to satisfy the longing for en- joyment, inherent in us all, by kindred gratifications. CHAPTER CONCERNING THE PARTIALITY OF THE WOMEN OF ARABIA FELIX FOR WHITE MEN.
Having seen this army depart, let us return to my prison. In the said palace of the city there was one of the three wives of the Sultan, who remained there with twelve or thirteen very beautiful damsels, whose colour was more near to black than otherwise. This queen was very kind to me. I and my companion and a Moor, being all three in prison here, we arranged that one of us should pretend to be mad, in order the better to assist one another. Finally, the lot fell
CHAPTER CONCERNING TIIE LIBERALITY OF THE QUEEN.
In order to please her I took off my shirt, and held it before me for modesty's sake, and thus she kept me before her for two hours, contemplating me as though I had been a nymph, and uttering a lamentation to God in this manner : " Ialla in te sta cal ade abiat me telsamps Inte stacal ane auset ; Ialla Ianaby iosane assiet : Villet ane asuet ade ragel abiath Insalla ade ragel Iosane Insalla oel binth mit lade," that is, " O God, thou hast created this man white like the sun, thou hast created my husband black, my son also is black, and I am black. Would to God that this man were my husband. Would to God that I might have a son like this man." And saying these words she wept continually and
1 Yihias, tiidl ; anta ju\ln ? Jonah, come ; are you hungry ?
2 Ay vf Allah, a common expletive affirmation.
3 Leis leis kamisfok. No, no, not with your shirt on.
4 Ya sitti, ana ma majmln Hun. Madam, I am not mad now.
6 W Allah, ana ''aiiraf anta abadan anta majmfoi. Anta ma fid- dunya mithlak. By God, I know that you were never mad. There is not another in the world like you.
6 Ya Allah! Anta khalakt hddha abyad mithl esh-sliams. Anta khalaktani ana asivad. Ya, Allah ! Ya Nabi ! zanji aswad : waladi ana aswad : hddha er-rajul abyad. In- shda- Allah hddha er-rajid zanji ! In shda-Allah awallad ibn mithl hddha. God ! Thou hast created this [man] white like the sun. Thou hast created me black. God ! Prophet ! my husband is black ; my son is black ; this man is white. Would that this man may become my husband ! Would that I may bear a son like this [man] !
Considering also, that as soon as she had had her wish she would have given me gold and silver, horses and slaves, and whatever I had desired. And then she would have given me ten black slaves, who would have been a guard upon me, so that I should never have been able to escape from the country, for all Arabia Felix was informed of me, that is to say, at the passes. And if I had once ran away, I could not have escaped death,
THE CHAPTER CONCERNING REAME, A CITY OF ARABIA
FELIX, OF ITS AIR, AND OF THE CUSTOMS OF
ITS INHABITANTS.
When I had rambled about the above-mentioned city, on parting thence I went to another place, distant from this one day's journey, which is called Keame, 1 and is for the most part inhabited by black people, who are very great mer- chants.
The following account of the various public monuments erected by 'Amir ibn Abd el-Wahhab is from the Kin-rat el-Aydn : — " He built the Great Mosque in the city of Zebid, which excels all others, and expended thereon enormous wealth. Also the Medresseh [College] called Edh- Dhafirieh, opposite the Dar el-Kebir, in the same city. Also the Me- dresseh of Sheikh Isma'il ibn Ibrahim el-Jabraty, and the tomb of the Fakih Abi-bekr ibn 'Ali el-Haddad, outside the town, near the Bab el-Kartab. Also two Medressehs at Ta'ez, to which place he also brought a stream of water. Also the Great Mosque and a Masjid at El-Makra- nah. Also a Medresseh at Radaa el-'Arsh. Also a Masjid at Aden, to which place he also conducted the water [from the country beyond] as far as the outer gate, and built a large reservoir iu the town itself, and the reason why they call him holy is this, that he never put any one to death excepting in war. You must know that in my time he had 15,000 or 16,000 men in chains, and to all he gave two quattrini per man for their expenses daily, and thus he left them to die in prison when they deserved death. He also has 16,000 slaves whom he maintains, and they are all black.
THE CHAPTER SHOWING HOW THE POLIARI AND HIRAVA FEED THEIR CHILDREN.
The women of these two classes of people, that is, the Poliari and Hirava, suckle their children for about three months, and then they feed them upon cow's milk or goat's milk. And when they have crammed them, without wash- ing either their faces or their bodies, they throw them into the sand, in which they remain covered up from the morn- ing until the evening, and as they are more black than any other colour, they cannot be distinguished from little buf- falos or little bears ; so that they appear misshapen things, and it seems as though they were fed by the devil. Their mothers give them food again in the evening. These people are the most agile leapers and runners in the world.
" Most of the inha- bitants of Socotra are Christians, and the cause of this was that Alex- ander [the Great] after he had overcome the king of Persia, and his fleet had captured the Indian islands, and he had killed Mor, king of India, his preceptor, Aristotle, having enjoined him to discover the Island of Aloes, this subject was on his mind, owing to his preceptor's injunc- tion ; so that after he had accomplished the taking of the Indian islands, and had overcome them and their kinevs, he turned from the Indian Sea.
We remained in this island about fifteen days, and found it to be small: the inhabitants of it are black and poor, and have very little food here ; but it comes to them from the mainland, which is not far distant. Nevertheless, there is a very good port here. Sometimes we went on the main- land to amuse ourselves and to see the country. We found some races of people quite black and quite naked, excepting that the men wore their natural parts in a bark of wood, and the women wore a leaf before and one behind.
Beyond the Ganges, onward towards the East, is the kingdom of Bengala, wherein there are many places and cities, as Avell inland as on the sea-coast. Those in the in- terior are inhabited by Gentiles, who are subject to the king of Bengala, who is a Moor ; and the stations on the coast are full of Moors and Gentiles, among whom are many mer- chants and traders to all parts. For this sea forms a gulf which bends towards the north, at the head of which is situated a great city inhabited by Moors, which is called Bengala, with a good port. The inhabitants thereof are white men, who are well-disposed. In the same city there are many foreigners from all parts, including Arabia, Persia, and Abyssinia.
Browne's account of the Mamluks in Egypt in 1722, coincides in the main with the foregoing description. " These military slaves are imported from Georgia, Circassia, and Mingrelia. A few have been prisoners, taken from the Austrians and Russians, who have exchanged their religion for an establishment. ..Particular attention is paid to the education of these slaves. They are instructed in every exercise of agility or strength, and are in general distinguished by the grace and beauty of their persons... They have no pay, as they eat at the table in the house of their master... Any military officer may purchase a slave, who becomes ipso facto a Mamluk. After a proper education, the candi- date thus constituted a Mamluk, receives a present of a horse and arms from his master, together with a suit of clothes, which is renewed every year in the month of Ramadhan." Browne was assured that during the eleven years preceding his visit, sixteen thousand white slaves, of both sexes, were imported into Egypt. Travels in Africa, Egypt, Syria, etc., pp. 53-56, 76.
THE CHAPTER CONCERNING SAMBRAGANTE, (AS IT IS
CALLED), A VERY LARGE CITY, LIKE CAIRO, AND OF
THE PERSECUTION BY THE SOFFI.
The merchants say that the present Sambragante (Samarkand0 ( town in Kazakhstan now known as Temirtau is a city) as large as Cairo. The king of the said city is a Mohamme- dan. Some merchants say that he has sixty thousand horse- men, and they are all white people and warlike. We did not proceed farther ; and the reason was, that the SofH was going through this country putting everything to fire and flame ; and especially he put to the sword all those who believed in Bubachar and Othman and Aumar, who are all companions of Mahomet ; but he leaves unmolested those who believe in Mahomet and Ali, and protects them. 3 Then
THE CHAPTER CONCERNING GOGA, AN ISLAND OF INDIA, AND THE KING OF THE SAME.
I departed from the city of Dabuli aforesaid, and went to another island, which is about a mile distant from the main- land, and is called Goga, 1 and which pays annually to the king of Decan ten thousand golden ducats, called by them pardai. These pardai are smaller than the seraphim of Cairo, but thicker, and have two devils stamped upon one side of them, and certain letters on the other. 1 In this island there is a fortress near the sea, walled round after our man- ner, in which there is sometimes a captain, who is called. Savain, who has four hundred Mamelukes, he himself being also a Mameluke. When the said captain can procure any- white man, he gives him very great pay, allotting him at least fifteen or twenty pardai per month. Before he in- scribes him in the list of able men, he sends for two tunics made of leather, one for himself and the other for him who wishes to enlist ; each puts on his tunic, and they fall to blows. If he finds him to be strong, he puts him in the list of able men ; if not, he sets him to some other work than that of fighting. This captain, with four hundred Mame- lukes, wages a great war with the king of Narsinga, 2 of whom we will speak at the proper season. I departed thence, and, travelling for seven days on the mainland, I arrived at a city which is called Decan.
Sir J. E. Tennent quotes the following passage from the Rajavali : — " And now it came to pass that in the Christian year 1522 [1507 ?], a ship from Portugal arrived at Colombo, and information was brought to the king, that there were in the harbour a race of very white and beautiful people who wear boots and shoes, and never stop in any place. They eat a sort of white stone, and drink blood ; and if they get a fish they give two or three ride in gold for it ; and, besides, they have guns with a noise like thunder, and a ball shot from one of them, after traversing a league, will break a castle of marble."
THE CHAPTER SHOWING HOW THE KING CAUSES HIS
WIFE TO BE DEFLOWERED, AND SO ALSO THE OTHER
PAGANS OF THE CITY.
The king of the said city does not cause his wife's vir- ginity to be taken by the Brahmins as the king of Calicut does, but he causes her to be deflowered by white men, whether Christians or Moors, provided they be not Pagans. Which Pagans also, before they conduct their wives to their house, find a white man, of whatever country he may be, and take him to their house for this particular purpose, to make him deflower the wife. And this happened to us when we arrived in the said city. We met by chance three or four merchants, who began to speak to my companion in this wise : " Langalli ni pardesi," that is, " Friend, are you strangers ?" He answered : " Yes." Said the merchants : " Ethera nali ni banno," that is, " How many days have you been in this country ?" We replied : " Mun nal gnad banno," that is, " It is four days since we arrived." Another one of the said merchants said : " Biti banno gnan piga- manathon ondo," that is, " Come to my house, for we arc great friends of strangers;" and we, hearing this, went with him. When we had arrived at his house, he gave us a collation, and then he said to us : " My friends, Patanci nale banno gnan penna periti in penna orangono panna panni cortu," that is, " Fifteen days hence I wish to bring home my wife, and one of you shall sleep with her the first night, and shall deflower her for me." We remained quite ashamed at hearing such a thing. Then our interpreter said: " Do not be ashamed, for this is the custom of the country."
THE CHAPTER CONCERNING SOME CHRISTIAN MER- CHANTS IN BANGHELLA.
We also found some Christian merchants here. They said that they were from a city called Sarnau, and had brought for sale silken stuffs, and aloes-wood, and benzoin, and musk. Which Christians said that in their country there were many lords also Christians, but they are subject to the great Khan [of] Cathai. 3 As to the dress of these Christians, they were clothed in a xebec 1 made with folds, and the sleeves were quilted with cotton. And on their heads they wore a cap a palm and a half long, made of red cloth. These same men are as white as we are, and confess that they are Christians, and believe in the Trinity, and likewise in the Twelve Apostles, in the four Evangelists, and they also have baptism with water. But they write in the contrary way to us, that is, after the manner of Armenia. And they say that they keep the Nativity and the Passion of Christ, and observe our Lent and other vigils in the course of the year. These Christians do not wear shoes, but they wear a kind of breeches made of silk, similar to those
When we had arrived in the island of Bornei, which is distant from Monoch about two hundred miles, we found it to be somewhat larger than the abovementioned, and much lower. The people of this island are Pagans, and are good people. Their colour is more white than otherwise. Their dress consists of a cotton shirt, and some go clothed in camelots. Some wear red caps. In this island justice is strictly administered, and every year a very great quantity of camphor is shipped, which they say grows there, and which is the gum of a tree. If it be so, I have not seen it, and therefore I do not affirm it. Here my companion chartered a vessel for one hundred ducats.
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
Lioness, there is a reason why we stop at having Ludovico di Varthema confirm that the Arabs were in fact Black people, thus proving that I was right all along: i.e. the modern people calling themselves Arabs are in fact Turks and Turk mulattoes.
Why you would want to subject us to an Albino Boys fantasy: i.e. the Arab Queen is dying for his dick, and Black kings have Albino men fuch their virgin brides for them.
Damn lioness, don't you know that we are used to Albino Boys writing nonsense like that?
We call it "Albino Boy Dreaming".
We just laugh at you fools.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
Why you would want to subject us to an Albino Boys fantasy: i.e. the Arab Queen is dying for his dick, and Black kings have Albino men fuch their virgin brides for them.
Damn lioness, don't you know that we are used to Albino Boys writing nonsense like that?
We call it "Albino Boy Dreaming".
We just laugh at you fools. [/QB]
they must have pulled it off somehow
Mike, pencil dick, I got this Ludovico di Varthema thread concept from a post by you. You had it up saying that he was calling Yemeni Jews black.
It made me wnat to investigate his remarks on black and white. He made a lot of such remarks and I posted a lot, for more context rather than just cherry pick. So he has credibility only if you edit out the rest? Don't kill the messenger
I'm wondering if these old writers every called anybody brown. Tawny is lighter than general brown. It's more like yellowish tan or light brown. Many Mexicans could be called brown, many just as dark as some of us medium brown AAs. yet these old writers never seem to use the term brown for such brown peoples of the world (I could be wrong)
____________________________
brown (adj.) Old English brun "dark, dusky," developing a definite color sense only 13c., from Proto-Germanic *brunaz (cf. Old Norse brunn, Danish brun, Old Frisian and Old High German brun, Dutch bruin, German braun), from PIE *bher- (3) "shining, brown" (cf. Lithuanian beras "brown"), related to *bheros "dark animal" (cf. beaver, bear (n.), and Greek phrynos "toad," literally "the brown animal").
The Old English word also had a sense of "brightness, shining," preserved only in burnish. The Germanic word was adopted into Romanic (e.g. Middle Latin brunus, Italian and Spanish bruno, French brun). Brown Bess, slang name for old British Army flintlock musket, first recorded 1785.
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
Nice post Lioness I didn't know about European traveler or explorer Ludovico Di Varthema. I knew about Italian explorer Marco Polo, Moroccan explorer Ibn Battuta and Andalusian explorer Leo Africanus.
According to Ludovico di Varthema the Arabs were black people. I think the Jew were probably a black and brown people.
Di Varthema is maybe exaggerating when he states the black Arab Queen wanted to have sex with him and the black Indian King wanted him to have sex with his wife. Di Varthema could also be telling the truth about the black Arab queen wanting to have sex with him and the Indian King wanting him to have sex with his wife. Some population have strange custom. Having sex and children with white man was probably a way for black people to lighten the skin of their children. I remember Lamin saying in a post that the black and brown skin of the native American were lighten during the European colonial era by having many white European studs impregnated many Native American woman.
The Arab Queen states that God make Italian traveler Di Varthama white like the sun and make her black her husband and children black. May she have a white husband and white children. The Arab Queen show the loving of white skin and the lighten of the skin of the black population of West Asia, India, North Africa may have come from the solar cult religion who replaced the Lunar and Stellar cult religion.
The BBC link show the pictures of the Indians but doesn't show the pictures of the black Arabs and Egyptians.
Posts: 5374 | From: sepedat/sirius | Registered: Jul 2012
| IP: Logged |
posted
Good post lioness, for but not for nothing Mike, exotic appeal can run both ways and for opposite sexes,off-course you should know this being you were an ex-fly boy.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
Brada-Anansi - You give lioness too much credit.
Her post was not to inform, but rather, to make the claim that the people of the Arabian peninsula i.e. "ARABS" were not the typical type Blacks that they are: i.e. people like this:
.
And as they were described thusly in the footnotes of Ludovico di Varthema's book.
.
.
Since some Albino people, like lioness, are still trying to hold onto the lying fantasy history that Albinos could possibly have been native to Egypt, and by extension Arabia, they always try to feature alternatives to typical Blacks, Who they correctly understand to be the diametric opposite of themselves as Albinos. This is the major reason for their hatreds, and insecurities as relates to Blacks.
As you may remember: Turks and their mulattoes, like below, were the FIRST choice for the Arab identity:
.
.
But for years I have been tearing that down, so now she is trying "Darker" mulattoes and Indian types.
But as KING correctly stated, they are indeed Black too, so I will let it go.
posted
I personally know black women who look JUST like that last woman with the bright smile and huge ear rings.
Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: [QB] Brada-Anansi - You give lioness too much credit.
Her post was not to inform, but rather, to make the claim that the people of the Arabian peninsula i.e. "ARABS" were not the typical type Blacks that they are: i.e. people like this:
.
This man is from Iran and probably of Zanj ancestry. That's doesn't have to mean slave. It could mean trader.
However Iran is not Arabia and the Zanj are not indigenous to Iran or Arabia. They are Arabized Arabs. They come from centuries before, from the Swahili Coast around Zanzibar.
Take a dark skinned African American. Dress him in the traditional clothing of anywhere in the world. If you show the picture of him to Mike he will inevitably say that he is one of the original natives.
The Arab culture itself doesn't go back that far.
The first civilization in the region is Ubaid 6500 to 3800 BC. It's a Mesopotamian civilization around Southern Iraq which also extended along the North Eastern coast of Arabia. --that comes from North of Arabia not the South
After the Ubaid, the region became drier and depopulatedm for about 1000 years.
This is one of the things Simple Mike doesn't inderstand in period of tens of thousands of years often populations come and go. And even if some of the original popualtion remain what is the relevance? Look at New York. There are Native Americans living in the New York. So what?
The ancient Sabaean Kingdom established power in the early 1st millennium BCE. It was conquered, in the 1st century BCE, by the Ḥimyarites. After the disintegration of the first Himyarite Kingdom of the Kings of Saba' and Dhū Raydān, the Middle Sabaean Kingdom reappeared in the early 2nd century.[2] The Sabaean kingdom was finally conquered by the Ḥimyarites in the late 3rd century and at that time the capital was Ma'rib. It was located along the strip of desert called Ṣayhad by medieval Arab geographers, which is now named Ramlat al-Sab`atayn.
The Sabaean people were South Arabian people. Each of these had regional kingdoms in ancient Yemen, with the Minaeans in the north in Wādī al-Jawf, the Sabeans on the south western tip, stretching from the highlands to the sea, the Qatabānians to the east of them and the Ḥaḑramites east of them.
Bronze statue of Dhamar Ali Yahbur. "King of Saba, dhu raydan,Hadrmawt and Yamant" (Himyarite Kingdom) late 3rd-early 4th century AD). The Ḥimyarite Kingdom was the dominant polity in Arabia until 525 AD. Its economy was based on agriculture, and foreign trade centered on the export of frankincense and myrrh. For many years, the kingdom was also the major intermediary linking East Africa and the Mediterranean world.
This is centuries before Islam
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: [QB] Brada-Anansi - You give lioness too much credit.
Her post was not to inform, but rather, to make the claim that the people of the Arabian peninsula i.e. "ARABS" were not the typical type Blacks that they are: i.e. people like this:
.
This man is from Iran and probably of Zanj ancestry. That's doesn't have to mean slave. It could mean trader.
However Iran is not Arabia and the Zanj are not indigenous to Iran or Arabia. They are Arabized Arabs. They come from centuries before, from the Swahili Coast around Zanzibar.
Take a dark skinned African American. Dress him in the traditional clothing of anywhere in the world. If you show the picture of him to Mike he will inevitably say that he is one of the original natives.
The Arab culture itself doesn't go back that far.
The first civilization in the region is Ubaid 6500 to 3800 BC. It's a Mesopotamian civilization around Southern Iraq which also extended along the North Eastern coast of Arabia. --that comes from North of Arabia not the South
After the Ubaid, the region became drier and depopulatedm for about 1000 years.
This is one of the things Simple Mike doesn't inderstand in period of tens of thousands of years often populations come and go. And even if some of the original popualtion remain what is the relevance? Look at New York. There are Native Americans living in the New York. So what?
The ancient Sabaean Kingdom established power in the early 1st millennium BCE. It was conquered, in the 1st century BCE, by the Ḥimyarites. After the disintegration of the first Himyarite Kingdom of the Kings of Saba' and Dhū Raydān, the Middle Sabaean Kingdom reappeared in the early 2nd century.[2] The Sabaean kingdom was finally conquered by the Ḥimyarites in the late 3rd century and at that time the capital was Ma'rib. It was located along the strip of desert called Ṣayhad by medieval Arab geographers, which is now named Ramlat al-Sab`atayn.
The Sabaean people were South Arabian people. Each of these had regional kingdoms in ancient Yemen, with the Minaeans in the north in Wādī al-Jawf, the Sabeans on the south western tip, stretching from the highlands to the sea, the Qatabānians to the east of them and the Ḥaḑramites east of them.
Bronze statue of Dhamar Ali Yahbur. "King of Saba, dhu raydan,Hadrmawt and Yamant" (Himyarite Kingdom) late 3rd-early 4th century AD). The Ḥimyarite Kingdom was the dominant polity in Arabia until 525 AD. Its economy was based on agriculture, and foreign trade centered on the export of frankincense and myrrh. For many years, the kingdom was also the major intermediary linking East Africa and the Mediterranean world.
This is centuries before Islam
lioness stop now.
why you keep posting the same things.
mike said he will give it a rest.
Usually people come on here for a break, and to have healthy debate. You aint debating but speaking around people. Beginning to think you work for someone.
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Outside of Wikipedia and some obscure website, can anyone find any reference to this "Dhamar Ali Yahbur" from a reliable source? I can not.
Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011
| IP: Logged |
You can tell when something is important, because whites will try to steal it. Blacks, you better be-careful, whites start to give to much importance to what your doing today, they might steal you too.
Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by typeZeiss: Outside of Wikipedia and some obscure website, can anyone find any reference to this "Dhamar Ali Yahbur" from a reliable source? I can not.
I challenged lioness to explain who those artifacts represented but got no reply.
Seeing as how the Albino people create fake artifacts or misrepresent real artifacts at the drop of a hat, it seemed the rational thing to do.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
According to Sokoto Sultan Mohammed Bello, Libyan President Muammar Kaddafi and some Nigerian historian part of the Yoruba population of Nigeria are immigrants from the Arabian Peninsula. They lived in the city of Mecca and Medina, they left the Arabian peninsula after the rise of Islam and migrated to Africa. The Yoruba were part of the original black Arabs tribes.
Yoruba are not one group. There are various groups that have been absorbed into that population calling themselves Yoruba, so we have to be very clear on who among Yoruba are we talking about. Also not all of them claim that Arabian origin.
Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by KING: This man is from Iran and probably of Zanj ancestry. lioness stop now.
why you keep posting the same things.
mike said he will give it a rest.
Usually people come on here for a break, and to have healthy debate. You aint debating but speaking around people. Beginning to think you work for someone.
You have got to be kidding I made a nice thread here and Mike attacked me
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by KING: This man is from Iran and probably of Zanj ancestry. lioness stop now.
why you keep posting the same things.
mike said he will give it a rest.
Usually people come on here for a break, and to have healthy debate. You aint debating but speaking around people. Beginning to think you work for someone.
You have got to be kidding I made a nice thread here and Mike attacked me
^So, pick your fights wisely. You gotta realize people will attack you because they don't want to understand where your coming from, AND you post on every topic even when people try to post things not directed to you.
Why?
Only reason I am beginning to see is that you really are paid by someone to kill threads.
You posted a Thread on religion in the AfroEast er um Middle east. So BUILD on that.
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by typeZeiss: Outside of Wikipedia and some obscure website, can anyone find any reference to this "Dhamar Ali Yahbur" from a reliable source? I can not.
Other translations
الملك ذمار علي يهبر، مؤسس ذمار
Dhamar Ali Yuharbirr of Nakhlat Al-Hamra
Ali Ahebr
King Hameeri "Dhamar Ali Ahebr"
King Ahebr Dhamar Ali,
King of Sheba King of Saba
the founder of Dhamar (This is called the city of Dhamar on the name of its founder
The sculpture is in the Sana museum in Yemen and shows a Hellenistic Greek influence similar to the earliest statues of the Buddha
________________________________________________
Source:
p 7
Decadence ,Decline abd Persistence: Zafar and Himyar University of Heidelberg
Modern scientific studies have confirmed the existence of human activity at Dhamar since the Neolithic period, starting around 6000 BC and continuing during the following periods through the Bronze Age. The site of the Hammat al-Qa' – 10 km to the east of Ma’bar city – is perhaps the most prominent and significant Bronze Age location in the Arabian peninsula.
The historic period of the South Arabian civilization in Yemen began between the 12th and 10th century BC. Dhamar contributed actively in the march of civilization in Yemen, with ancient monuments dating back to 1000 B.C. at places such as al-Sha’b al-Aswad and Masna’at Marya.
During the 2nd century BC, Raydanites established themselves at Zafar, about 50 km south of Dhamar, and they rallied the Himyarite tribes in their fight with Sabaean forces. Dhamar became the strategic place for the Raydanites. By the 2nd century AD Naqil Yislah – 50 km to the north of Dhamar city – was the dividing line between the Sabaeans and the Raydanites under the leadership of the king Yasir Yahsadaq.
Yemen was now united, and in this new era Dhamar witnessed great prosperity manifested in reconstruction of cities and cultic centers, in construction of palaces, temples and fortification walls, and in creation of water facilities such as dams, tunnels, diversion barriers, etc. The bronze statues of Dhamar Ali Yahbar and his son Tha’ran Yahna’am discovered at Nakhlat Al-Hamra’ are physical illustrations of high cultural attainments of Yemen under these Himyarite kings.
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by KING: ^So, pick your fights wisely. You gotta realize people will attack you because they don't want to understand where your coming from, AND you post on every topic even when people try to post things not directed to you.
Why?
Only reason I am beginning to see is that you really are paid by someone to kill threads.
You posted a Thread on religion in the AfroEast er um Middle east. So BUILD on that. [/QB]
I don't understand what you are saying. You seesm to forget I started this thread. The first post Mike addresses me by name. In Egyptology Tukular made a thread based quoting me.
This thread has been consistently focused on Yemen.
So I'm being paid to kill my own thread.
You can ask Mike, I enable threads to be longer rather than kill them
maybe your beef is more about some other thread I'm one. This is a lioness thread, no holds barred
See that Ḥimyarite statue? I just put up a new link on that from the Univ of Heidelberg, it's pretty interesting. I just found that, it wasn't easy.
And in the original post this guy 16th c Ludovico di Varthema was first quoted by Mike. di Varthema wrote a lot of detailed travel notes to Yemen, India and other regions. It's pretty interesting if you look further into the book at the link
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by KING: ^So, pick your fights wisely. You gotta realize people will attack you because they don't want to understand where your coming from, AND you post on every topic even when people try to post things not directed to you.
Why?
Only reason I am beginning to see is that you really are paid by someone to kill threads.
You posted a Thread on religion in the AfroEast er um Middle east. So BUILD on that.
I don't understand what you are saying. You seesm to forget I started this thread. The first post Mike addresses me by name. In Egyptology Tukular made a thread based quoting me.
This thread has been consistently focused on Yemen.
So I'm being paid to kill my own thread.
You can ask Mike, I enable threads to be longer rather than kill them
maybe your beef is more about some other thread I'm one. This is a lioness thread, no holds barred [/QB]
^Lioness not saying this thread, In general you post in EVERY thread created and start very few threads.
Finally you start a decent thread on Religion in the AfroEast oops again Middle East yet have not builded that thread.
Don't start building then figure out that "Oh wait this building stinks" and then give up on building it. If it stinks change the base and keep on building.
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by KING: ^Lioness not saying this thread, In general you post in EVERY thread created and start very few threads.
Finally you start a decent thread on Religion in the AfroEast oops again Middle East yet have not builded that thread.
Don't start building then figure out that "Oh wait this building stinks" and then give up on building it. If it stinks change the base and keep on building. [/QB]
It makes no sense to complain about me not making more threads in a thread I made, pick your fights wisely. I have 5 threads at the moment on this page you have 4. I also have 5 other threads in Egyptology front page at the moment.
If you want to make a complaint make it in the right thread.
I like to battle not just make fluff threads.
Do I post too much? yes, we need to cut down
But I was hired to keep Mike in line
You need to point to the point where the build broke
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by KING: ^Lioness not saying this thread, In general you post in EVERY thread created and start very few threads.
Finally you start a decent thread on Religion in the AfroEast oops again Middle East yet have not builded that thread.
Don't start building then figure out that "Oh wait this building stinks" and then give up on building it. If it stinks change the base and keep on building.
It makes no sense to complain about me not making more threads in a thread I made, pick your fights wisely. I have 5 threads at the moment on this page you have 4. I also have 5 other threads in Egyptology front page at the moment.
If you want to make a complaint make it in the right thread.
I like to battle not just make fluff threads.
Do I post too much? yes, we need to cut down
But I was hired to keep Mike in line
You need to point to the point where the build broke [/QB]
Allright when you post LONG studies without breaking down WHY you are posting them. Then instead of giving your own words, you just repost a sentence from the study with a couple words changed. And Yes I was wrong It seems you are making more threads.
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by KING: Allright when you post LONG studies without breaking down WHY you are posting them. Then instead of giving your own words, you just repost a sentence from the study with a couple words changed. And Yes I was wrong It seems you are making more threads. [/QB]
Tukular complained about that and while the post was still open I went in and added bold text. Some times I post up an article for reference other times I comment. Look at threads that me and Troll Patrol are in. Look at the amount of commentary I write compared to cut and paste. You might find me writing several paragraphs. His stuff is 95% quote. He look at a huge block of text and he's got like one sentence that he wrote himself. Look at my recent comments on U6 in berbers. I have quotes and commentary
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by KING: Allright when you post LONG studies without breaking down WHY you are posting them. Then instead of giving your own words, you just repost a sentence from the study with a couple words changed. And Yes I was wrong It seems you are making more threads.
Tukular complained about that and while the post was still open I went in and added bold text. Some times I post up an article for reference other times I comment. Look at threads that me and Troll Patrol are in. Look at the amount of commentary I write compared to cut and paste. You might find me writing several paragraphs. His stuff is 95% quote. He look at a huge block of text and he's got like one sentence that he wrote himself. Look at my recent comments on U6 in berbers. I have quotes and commentary [/QB]
Thats not your own words lioness using your own words does not mean you need to post [27] really? Thats your own words?? Do people who critique studies put the words like it still sounds like it comes from the study they posted?
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Ludovico Di Varthema traveling map. Ludovico Di Varthema traveled to Egypt, West Asia, India, East Africa, Indochina, Indonesia. He didn't traveled to China.
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic