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Author Topic: Facial reconstruction of Thutmose IV
Alessia Birri
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If you want to see the mummy of Thutmose IV, enter in my blog:

http://alessiabirriblog.blogspot.it/2014/04/la-bellezza-immortale-di-thutmose-iv.html

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mena7
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I thought you were going to show a modern mulato Egyptian as Tuthmoses IV but you show a modern white European. Pharaoh Tuthmosis IV was a black African like today Nubians, Sudaneses, Ethiopians, Ugandans, Somalians, Kenyans, Malians, Senegaleses, and Nigerians.

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mena

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Doug M
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http://www.eplibrary.co.uk/catalog/mummy-thutmose-iv

Rotate that image and note how his profile is strictly "negroid" or black African.....

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the lioness,
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note: Doug doesn't know what he's talking about

ignore his "Strictly Negroid" racial categorizations

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Doug M
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And by the way this is how he is depicted in his tomb:

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http://www.osirisnet.net/tombes/pharaons/thoutmosis4/e_thoutmosis4.htm

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the lioness,
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Some might try to argue here the hair here is "negroid" but it is certainly not "strictly negroid"

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the lioness,
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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Alessia Birri:
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If you want to see the mummy of Thutmose IV, enter in my blog:

http://alessiabirriblog.blogspot.it/2014/04/la-bellezza-immortale-di-thutmose-iv.html

^^^The skin tone is wrong


Use this skin tone:
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Mike111
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^I must say that it is very disappointing that the rules of evidence, as related to the chain of custody, is still not practiced here at ES. Nor is the logical understanding and expectation of what certain groups HAVE done, and will CONTINUE to do.

Case in point:
Thutmose IV was buried in the Valley of the Kings, in tomb KV43, but his body was later moved to the mummy cache in KV35, where it was discovered by Victor Loret in 1898. An examination of his body shows that he was very ill and had been wasting away for the final months of his life prior to his death. He was succeeded to the throne by his son, Amenhotep III.


We know that the Albino people and their Turk mulatto co-conspirators, lie about everything that involves Blacks. So why would anyone believe that they correctly identified a large group of mummies that they found in a Cave? An even better question is HOW would they do that: was the Pharaohs name printed on the wrapping?


This is how they found who they call Nefertiti, can you see any way that could be accurate?

Also please keep in mind that both the Greeks and sometimes the Romans too, also practiced Egyptian burial rites. Point being that there was also mummies from those Europeans buried in Egypt. Is it beyond the Albinos to do a swap-a-roo to further their bogus history. Hell no, they do it all the time.

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Now as to Alessia Birri: it is enough to say that she is an Italian:

This is what Italians do:

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Now to Thutmose IV specifically:


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Note the neck area - the part the scarf is covering above:
It is entirely possible that the mummies head was swapped out - HELL YES ALBINOS WOULD DO THAT!


But the most telling evidence is when you compare Thutmosis IV with his relatives.


His Grandfather:

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His father:

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His Son:

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His statue:


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Mike111
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Clearly the members of this forum do not appreciate how false, and at best tenuous, the information they are fed by the Albinos and their Turk Mulattoes really is.

Below is an accounting of how some Mummy Caches were found, and the condition that they were in. Please remember, this is what they are "Admitting" to. Therefore also remember that "NO business admits to all of their improprieties.


Royal Caches at Deir el-Bahri by Marie Parsons
(On Tour Egypt site)



Quote: Mohammed el-Rassul, the eldest brother, then turned informer, and went to the authorities to divulge the location of the hidden tomb. The story Mohammed told of the discovery of the tomb was this: One day, years before, a goat belonging to Ahmed had strayed from its herd on the cliffs in the bay of Deir el-Bahri. When Ahmed investigated and followed the bleating of his animal, he found that it had fallen down one of the vertical tomb-shafts, which honeycombed the cliffs. As he cursed the goat, he descended after it and found himself in a cramped corridor, cluttered with dark shapes. After he lit a candle, he saw that the shapes were a collection of dusty wooden coffins, stretching as far as he could see, heaped one upon another. Ahmed could see the occasional uraeus, the royal cobra, and several cartouches inscribed on the coffin lids. He also found shabtis, shabti-boxes, canopic jars, and other funerary paraphernalia. Ahmeds eyes must have widened, as he realized that this was a royal find.

The el-Rassul family lived comfortably off the proceeds of their tomb, until, in the mid-1870s, the growing number of important funerary papyri reaching the west, as well as other objects in circulation on the local antiquities market gave the game away.

Mohammed then took the officials of the Antiquities Society to Deir el Bahri. He showed them the actual tomb chamber, which contained coffins of some of ancient Egypts greatest Kings of the New Kingdom. The funerary trappings had disappeared, the gold sarcophagi had been melted down, and the mummies had even been re-wrapped. But there they lay, beside the mummies of non-royal mummies.

Since Gaston Maspero was in France by this time, Emile Brugsch, an assistant at the museum in Bulaq, was called in to investigate the find. As he lowered himself into the shaft, Brugsch saw a low corridor piled high with "cases of porcelain funerary offerings, metal and alabaster vessels, draperies, trinkets, and then around a passage, a cluster of mummy casesin such numbers"

The mummies of kings that were found in this cache were Seqenenre-Taa, who had fought the Hyksos and bore a great head wound as apparent evidence, Ahmose I, the founder of the New Kingdom, Amenhotep I, the first three Tutmosids, Seti I, Ramesses II, III and IX, and the coffin of Ramesses I. Within a matter of days, the tomb was emptied, and its occupants, in excess of 50 kings, princes, and courtiers, with almost 6,000 accompanying objects, were sent to Bulaq.

Prior to this find, it was already clear that each king was buried separately and independently of his predecessor(s). And each burial certainly had beautiful coffins, and funerary objects lain to rest with them. So why this jumbled collection? And why were some of the coffins in such poor condition, not truly suited to their royal tenants.

One indication of the reason for this reburial was the following text written in ink on the bandages of the mummy of Ramesses II:

"Year 15, 3rd month of Akhet, Day 6: Day of bringing the Osiris king Usermaatre-setepenre (Ramesses II), Life! Prosperity! And Health!, to renew him and to bury him in the tomb of the Osiris king Menmaatre-Seti (I) Life! Prosperity! Health! By the high priest of Pinudjem."

So apparently the mummy of Ramesses II had been removed from his tomb, and re-buried in the tomb of Seti I, and then both those mummies and that of Ramesses I, had been removed and reburied within the tomb of Queen Inhapy. With these movements, the kings had lost most of their original burial equipment along the way. Gaston Maspero speculated that these constant moves were prompted by the attentions of tomb-robbers at the end of the New Kingdom. However, experts today believe that the stripping of the dead had not been done by local robbers, but by the state itself, hungry for gold at a time of economic decline. Evidence for this theory comes from the discovery of the funerary equipment and jewels for these earlier kings turning up, reused, in the burials at Tanis of their 21st and 22nd Dynasty successors.

Maspero decided that the mummies fell into two groups, one, dating from the Second Intermediate and New Kingdom periods, poorly coffined, and the second, better equipped and dating from the later Third Intermediate Period.

The final royal resting-place at Deir el-Bahri where these 50+ coffins were found was the family vault of the Theban high priest Pinudjem II, whose relations had occupied the end chamber of the tomb. Several decades later, after Year 11 of Shoshenq I in the 22nd Dynasty, the priestly family was joined by these battered royal mummies.

But the cache of royal mummies found at Deir el-Bahri was not the only one of its kind. In 1898 Victor Loret, excavating in the Valley of the Kings, not only discovered the tomb of Amenhotep II, but another royal cache in the tomb itself. Thirteen mummies, including those of Amenhotep II, Seti II, and Siptah, lay in this second cache.

In the same room with the magnificent royal sarcophagus, Loret found other corpses, scattered everywhere. The first, thought to be King Sethnakht of the 20th Dynasty, had been laid out on the battered hull of one of Amenhotep IIs wooden model boats, left in the antechamber to the tomb.

Three further mummies were found, without coffins, and stripped of their bandages. They were neatly placed in a side-room leading off the burial chamber. The first had long flowing hair and a thick veil on her forehead and left eye. This was the mummy later called "The Elder Lady" (later identified as Nefertiti). The second mummy was that of a young boy, his head shaved except on the right temple, where the sidelock of youth flowed. The third mummy was that of a youthful woman, whose face showed evidence of a dislocated jaw. All three corpses had had their skulls pierced with a large hole, and the breast of each was opened. Experts studying the corpses believe this happened when the bodies were robbed, in order to unwrap the bandages faster and take the amulets and jewelry.

The second side chamber contained nine more bodies, with their wrappings intact, but placed in a variety of ramshackle coffins. Loret soon discovered cartouches on the coffins, and realized that he had found yet another royal cache. He determined that the mummies had been re-buried into the tomb of Amenhotep II at the turn of the 2nd millennium BCE. At that time, Amenhotep II himself had also been "restored." However, everything of any value had been stripped from the coffins.

Amenhotep II was there, of course, in his red quartzite sarcophagus but placed in a coffin inscribed for the much later king Ramesses III, and covered with a lid inscribed for Seti II; Tuthmosis IV was there, and Merenptah in the lower part of a coffin inscribed for Setnakht, Seti II, Siptah, Ramesses IV, Ramesses V and Ramesses VI. The last of these mummies was an anonymous female lying on the upturned lid of a coffin inscribed for Setnakht. The heads of Siptah, Seti II, Ramesses IV, Ramesses VI and possibly even Ramesses V all bore similar cranial holes to those found on the bodies of Siptah and the others.

In early 1901, the guards watching over this tomb were overpowered, and the tomb itself rifled once again. The mummy that had been laid in the boat vanished, and the mummy of Amenhotep II itself was unwrapped, the amulets and jewels stolen and one arm even torn off.

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Mike111
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This is what Mummy Caches really looked like.

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Mike111
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The Discovery of The Valley of the Golden Mummies at Bahariya Oasis.

Mummies was discovered recently by an Egyptian team at Bahariya Oasis, located about 380 km west of the pyramids. Four tombs were excavated, and found inside them were 105 mummies, many of them beautifully gilded. These mummies, many sumptuously decorated with religious scenes, represent the very best of Roman-Period mummies ever found in Egypt. These ancient remains are around 2000 years old, but they have withstood the test of time remarkably well.


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Yes, that's Hawass the liar in the picture.

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mena7
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The picture of the mummy of Tuthmose IV looks like a Somalian, a Tutsi and Abyssanian.

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This Tutsi Man looks like Pharaoh Tuthmose IV

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Rwanda President Tutsi Paul Kagame

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Somalian man face and hair is similar to Pharaoh Tuthmosis IV face and hair.

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This Somalian woman phenotype is the proof the white race is fake.

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Somalian model Iman

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Somalian mother of the white race.

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This is the picture of a Jewish-English singer. Many Europeans are bleach out black people and mulato people that's why many white people have black people phenotype.

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Alessia Birri
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Thanks for the comments, really all interesting. What I think: nobody can claim descent from the ancient Egyptians, because they were superior to all the peoples of today. They were not white or black, but it was "the Egyptians". Think in terms of race is absolutely simplistic and shows a limited view, that the Egyptians would not understand it either. Ciao :-)
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Ish Geber
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quote:
Originally posted by Alessia Birri:
Thanks for the comments, really all interesting. What I think: nobody can claim descent from the ancient Egyptians, because they were superior to all the peoples of today. They were not white or black, but it was "the Egyptians". Think in terms of race is absolutely simplistic and shows a limited view, that the Egyptians would not understand it either. Ciao :-)

Sure,


quote:
Originally posted by MelaninKing:
Determination of optimal rehydration, fixation and
staining methods for histological and
immunohistochemical analysis of mummified soft
tissues

A-M Mekota1, M Vermehren
Department of Biology I, Biodiversity Research/Anthropology1and Department of Veterinary Anatomy II2,
Ludwig-Maximilians University Munich, Germany
Submitted January 8, 2002; revised May 4, 2004; accepted August 12, 2004

Abstract
During an excavation headed by the German Institute for Archaeology, Cairo, at the tombs of the nobles in Thebes-West, Upper Egypt, three types of tissues from different mummies were
sampled to compare 13 well known rehydration methods for mummified tissue with three newly
developed methods. Furthermore, three fixatives were tested with each of the rehydration fluids.
Meniscus (fibrocartilage), skin, and a placenta were used for this study. The rehydration and
fixation procedures were uniform for all methods.

Materials and methods
In 1997, the German Institute for Archaeology
headed an excavation of the tombs of the nobles
in Thebes-West, Upper Egypt. At this time, three
types of tissues were sampled from different
mummies: meniscus (fibrocartilage), skin, and
placenta. Archaeological findings suggest that the
mummies dated from the New Kingdom (approxi-
mately 1550-1080 BC).

Skin
Skin sections showed particularly good tissue
preservation, although cellular outlines were never distinct. Although much of the epidermis had
already separated from the dermis, the remaining
epidermis often was preserved well (Fig. 1).

The basal epithelial cells were packed with melanin as expected for specimens of Negroid origin.
In the dermis, the hair follicles, hair, and sebaceous and sweat glands were readily apparent (Fig. 2). Blood vessels, but no red blood cells, and small peripheral nerves were identified unambiguously (Fig. 3). The subcutaneous layer showed loose connective tissue fibers attached to the dermis, and fat cell remnants were observed.
To evaluate the influence of postmortum tissue
decay by micro-organisms, the samples were
tested for the presence of fungi using silver
staining.

Biotechnic & Histochemistry 2005, 80(1): 7Á/13


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Mike111
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quote:
Originally posted by Alessia Birri:
Thanks for the comments, really all interesting. What I think: nobody can claim descent from the ancient Egyptians, because they were superior to all the peoples of today. They were not white or black, but it was "the Egyptians". Think in terms of race is absolutely simplistic and shows a limited view, that the Egyptians would not understand it either. Ciao :-)

What an idiot!

Alessia Birri is obviously a nutcase testing the waters for more delusional Albino nonsense.

You probably didn't read Trollkillah # Ish Gebor response to you, so I will bold the important part from that study of Egyptian Mummies.

The basal epithelial cells were packed with melanin as expected for specimens of Negroid origin.

BTW folks, that quote about Egyptians being neither Black nor White is nonsense straight from the likes of Hawass the liar himself.

Knowing that many Albinos won't give up their delusions until another Albino says so, Alessia Birri you should check out this Wiki article.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egyptian_race_controversy

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:


The basal epithelial cells were packed with melanin as expected for specimens of Negroid origin.


that's one person
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Mike111
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Lioness, your unfailing stupidity always amazes me.


Determination of optimal rehydration, fixation and staining methods for histological and immunohistochemical analysis of mummified soft tissues

A-M Mekota1 , M Vermehren2
Department of Biology I, Biodiversity Research/Anthropology1 and Department of Veterinary Anatomy II2 , Ludwig-Maximilians University Munich, Germany

Submitted January 8, 2002; revised May 4, 2004; accepted August 12, 2004

Abstract
During an excavation headed by the German Institute for Archaeology, Cairo, at the tombs of the nobles in Thebes-West, Upper Egypt, three types of tissues from different mummies were sampled to compare 13 well known rehydration methods for mummified tissue with three newly developed methods.

Results
We devised a grading system to compare and to rate each procedure for its degree of tissue con- servation, histological and histochemical staining properties, the specificity of immunohistochemical staining methods, and the degree of fungal pene- tration into the tissue.

Skin

Skin sections showed particularly good tissue preservation, although cellular outlines were never distinct. Although much of the epidermis had already separated from the dermis, the remaining epidermis often was preserved well (Fig. 1). The basal epithelial cells were packed with melanin as expected for specimens of Negroid origin.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15804821

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the lioness,
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 -
 -

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Mike111
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^Yes lioness, that's much better.
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ThutmoseFan
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Hi, Alessia Birri!

I must say you're depiction of Thutmose IV is just awesome! He was a really handsome man, if you're reconstruction comes out to be accurate!
I'd not compared being one of his harem...
Even in death, I must say he's kinda cute. He looks so calm and pleased with himself and life.
Though he must have been in much pain, he died young and was highly sick. Especially Epilepsy.
It's like he's just sleeping, not being aware of whats happening around him not the fact 3000 years has passed. I see there has been big dispute on weather he was white, black or Arabian...
And I must say Its kind irrelevant. And its very difficult to assume some once color just by watching a mummy and face shape. Have you watched a green grape, or an apple, or any fruit really dry sometime? How many of the fruits stays the same color as before? A lot of living materials turns black/Dark brown/Orange over time as they ferments, some even gets a grey coverage as its dry. It's the same with wood... And even humans!!! depending on how they are stored, or handled.
Ötzi for example is dark orange, due to the mummification of ice!! The moss mummies, of Germany/Scandinavia turned black as the dark water of the moss got into their skin.
Thutmose might have been light skinned as alive, but due to the conditions and oils/herbs that where applied on his body he might have changed color over time. Just like a fruit! Until he was completely black, with a grey layer. Just like a raisin.

But we can still get very far with the technology today. And since Tutankhamen was 99% Euro-Arabic, we can assume his great grandpa was to. I've made the rude opportunity to make a more "in Between" coloration of him. I just hope I can get the link to work.We'll never get to know his full genetic data, not the indicator of his true color.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9KUGuLyau_QWEtzbW16R0FNUm8/view?usp=sharing

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by ThutmoseFan:

Ötzi for example is dark orange, due to the mummification of ice!!

do you have a source of reference that says that?
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the questioner
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quote:
Originally posted by ThutmoseFan:
And since Tutankhamen was 99% Euro-Arabic, we can assume his great grandpa was to.

king Tutankhamen was neither Arab nor was he European

the Ancient Egyptian language was African and so were the people

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--------------------
Questions expose liars

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ThutmoseFan
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by ThutmoseFan:

Ötzi for example is dark orange, due to the mummification of ice!!

do you have a source of reference that says that?
Every mummy that's exposed to "natural" embalming, gets that color! Especually freezing.
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ThutmoseFan
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by ThutmoseFan:

Ötzi for example is dark orange, due to the mummification of ice!!

do you have a source of reference that says that?
https://hinative.com/en-US/questions/1184573
http://incaencyclopediac.pbworks.com/w/page/21051802/Mummies
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/egyptians/mummies_01.shtml
http://io9.gizmodo.com/the-science-of-mummies-993265763

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ThutmoseFan
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quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
quote:
Originally posted by ThutmoseFan:
And since Tutankhamen was 99% Euro-Arabic, we can assume his great grandpa was to.

king Tutankhamen was neither Arab nor was he European

the Ancient Egyptian language was African and so were the people

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Uhu... Have you read the articles? The Ancient Egyptian language was Afro-ASIAN, and belongs o the same family group as Hebrew and Arabic.
No where else can you find a language like those. And on top of that, Ancient Egyptians were hamites
from northern Africa and today's west Asia, like Syria and Irak! Just look at the paintings from Ancient Egypt, where you can see Egyptians and "negro s" side by side, and you'll see NO Egyptian where black but more of a brown/tan skin tone.
I do not claim they here white! But they where no Negros either! Some might have been "black", but not the majority!The modern Egyptians however are more related to Sudanese/black people and so on. After the fall of the Pharaohs. Only a few of them descends from the ancient Egyptians, who either migrated east and north or may even died out.

The Turks/Iranians are also the ancestors of the modern Europeans from 8000 years ago.
In fact even most Scandinavians descends from Ancient people from the middle east and Turkey(The farmers). Out concurring the first Scandinavians(Hunter/gatherers. They where dark skinned and lightened over time!


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/archaeology/ancient-egyptians-europeans-related-claims-a7763866.html
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/ancient-egyptians-were-more-european-10530527
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4555292/Study-mummies-reveals-Turkish-European.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2022313/Up-70-British-men-related-Egyptian-Pharaoh-Tutankhamun.html
http://observationdeck.kinja.com/no-egyptians-arent-white-but-they-arent-black-eithe-1665322870
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/dec/28/origins-of-the-irish-down-to-mass-migration-ancient-dna-confirms

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by ThutmoseFan:
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
quote:
Originally posted by ThutmoseFan:
[qb] And since Tutankhamen was 99% Euro-Arabic, we can assume his great grandpa was to.

king Tutankhamen was neither Arab nor was he European

the Ancient Egyptian language was African and so were the people

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Uhu... Have you read the articles? The Ancient Egyptian language was Afro-ASIAN, and belongs o the same family group as Hebrew and Arabic.
No where else can you find a language like those. And on top of that, Ancient Egyptians were hamites
from northern Africa and today's west Asia, like Syria and Irak! Just look at the paintings from Ancient Egypt, where you can see Egyptians and "negro s" side by side, and you'll see NO Egyptian where black but more of a brown/tan skin tone.

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^ Here's a picture of a black man, Jesse Jackson.
He's lighter than the skin tone of the above Tutankhamun artifacts from his tomb


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Kobe Bryant reminds me of some the Egyptian artifacts, also his skin tone matches


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Look closely at the features here

Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
the questioner
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quote:
Originally posted by ThutmoseFan:
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
quote:
Originally posted by ThutmoseFan:
And since Tutankhamen was 99% Euro-Arabic, we can assume his great grandpa was to.

king Tutankhamen was neither Arab nor was he European

the Ancient Egyptian language was African and so were the people

 -

 -

Uhu... Have you read the articles? The Ancient Egyptian language was Afro-ASIAN, and belongs o the same family group as Hebrew and Arabic.
No where else can you find a language like those. And on top of that, Ancient Egyptians were hamites
from northern Africa and today's west Asia, like Syria and Irak! Just look at the paintings from Ancient Egypt, where you can see Egyptians and "negro s" side by side, and you'll see NO Egyptian where black but more of a brown/tan skin tone.
I do not claim they here white! But they where no Negros either! Some might have been "black", but not the majority!The modern Egyptians however are more related to Sudanese/black people and so on. After the fall of the Pharaohs. Only a few of them descends from the ancient Egyptians, who either migrated east and north or may even died out.

The Turks/Iranians are also the ancestors of the modern Europeans from 8000 years ago.
In fact even most Scandinavians descends from Ancient people from the middle east and Turkey(The farmers). Out concurring the first Scandinavians(Hunter/gatherers. They where dark skinned and lightened over time!


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/archaeology/ancient-egyptians-europeans-related-claims-a7763866.html
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/ancient-egyptians-were-more-european-10530527
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4555292/Study-mummies-reveals-Turkish-European.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2022313/Up-70-British-men-related-Egyptian-Pharaoh-Tutankhamun.html
http://observationdeck.kinja.com/no-egyptians-arent-white-but-they-arent-black-eithe-1665322870
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/dec/28/origins-of-the-irish-down-to-mass-migration-ancient-dna-confirms

explain this
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notice the complexions of the nubians and ramses
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Questions expose liars

Posts: 861 | From: usa | Registered: Apr 2015  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
the questioner
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Ramses and some of the Nubians are the same color as his horse

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Questions expose liars

Posts: 861 | From: usa | Registered: Apr 2015  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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