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» EgyptSearch Forums » Deshret » Earliest picture of an Israelite (Page 4)

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Author Topic: Earliest picture of an Israelite
Ish Geber
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quote:
Originally posted by sero:
In most cultures prisoners and slaves got their hair cropped as a form of humiliation upon their broken manhood/power. The Bible symbolically and literally talks about this form of humiliation performed by the Assyrians.


Isaiah 7:20 
In that day the Lord will use a razor hired from beyond the Euphrates River the king of Assyria to shave your heads and private parts, and to cut off your beards also.


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quote:
Ivory plaque of lioness mauling an African: the lioness is standing over her victim who has his knees drawn up and is lying back supported by his hands on the ground behind him. The lioness is biting his throat. The African wears a short kilt represented by gold leaf. The tight curls of hair are represented by gilt-topped ivory pegs. In the background are lotus and papyrus flowers, covered in gold leaf and inlaid with lapis lazuli and cornelian. There is also a spot of lapis lazuli inlay on the forehead of the lioness. On top of the plaque are two square mortice holes and an incised letter 'aleph' in West Semitic script, while on the base are two rectangular holes and another incised 'aleph'. This plaque was probably part of a piece of furniture.

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http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/collection_object_details.aspx?objectId=369008&partId=1


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Tukuler
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quote:
Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:
Nice, these are all the scenes attached.

Thanks but there are 13 individual slabs from
Sennacherib. What I found and never knew saw
before this thread is the first tow slabs
representing deportees by the score
posted last page and updated now.

Lachish Jewish women with their woolly haired husbands.

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 - zoom

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BTW I do have an image of all the slabs depicting
the booty of Lachish passing before Sennacherib but
it's way too wide to post here and I won't ruin the
readability of the thread by stretching it so wide
you have to scroll side to side each and every line
just to read a post as was done to my Beta Israel
thread.

What I may do is post it in a thread of its own  -

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Ish Geber
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^ thanks, Tukuler

quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:
] For the dumb ass above, the Assyrian art was from thousands of years ago, Muhammad Ali is from when? Time and culture are mandated for cultural expressions. Back then that was how they portrayed Afro texture hair [Big Grin]


All you are good for is ignoring and denying black peoples history.

Plus not all Afro hair has the same texture.


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^^^^ this shows you don't know what you are talking about

You say not all Afro hair has the same texture and then below it you have a chart showing curly hair, that's dumb
Multi millions of people of many different ethnities and complexions have curly hair

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you theory is all curly haired people are Africans, it's dumb

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Dimwit the beard doesn't match, dimwit your theory straight hair is caucasoid, it's dumb. Dimwit posting pictures of random folks to prove a point, is dumb. Dimwit, the lengths you go on a daily basis to erase black peoples history is hilarious. Next time, tell us again about your "race theories" and straight hair. LOL


And I did not make that scheme. Go figure!


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quote:
This vase combines the distinctive neck of the so-called Shape VII oinochoe with a naturalistic head of a young black African boy. His curls and the central rosette were made separately. Vases in figural form were popular items in several Mediterranean cultures. The Etruscans produced both terracotta and metal versions.
http://www.metmuseum.org/collection/the-collection-online/search/246978


Main Entry: ulot·ri·chous

Pronunciation: \-rə̇kəs\
Function: adjective

Etymology: New Latin Ulotrichi (plural) division of humankind having crisp or woolly hair (from Greek oulotrich-, oulothrix having curly or woolly hair, from oulos curly, woolly + trich-, thrix hair) + English -ous; akin to Greek eilein to roll, eilyein to roll, wrap — more at trich-, voluble

: exhibiting ulotrichy : having woolly or crisp hair


You've f*ckedup again!

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:


 -

 -



so according to you both these people have nappy hair, aka afros

and are therefore "black"

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IronLion
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quote:



quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:.................





 - ......
.

 -

Dimwit the beard doesn't match, dimwit your theory straight hair is caucasoid, it's dumb. Dimwit posting pictures of random folks to prove a point, is dumb. Dimwit, the lengths you go on a daily basis to erase black peoples history is hilarious. Next time, tell us again about your "race theories" and straight hair. LOL


And I did not make that scheme. Go figure!


........

You've f*ckedup again!

LOL...hot fake Muurish curls... [Big Grin] [Big Grin]
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Ish Geber
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:


 -

 -



so according to you both these people have nappy hair, aka afros

and are therefore "black"

LOL at your "rebuttal". All you have is excessive excuses.


According to you blacks live(-d) also outside of Africa. And I'm not disputing it.


quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:



I said African types

"black" is a social construct term
It is therefore what it means is open to widely varied interpretation and is not, in recent thinking, considered a scientific term ("nappy" isn't either)

"African type" refers to a specific geographic location, Africa

Also, whether an African type person made it to some location 40-50,000 years ago is irrelevant to specific populations in Assyria or Lachish 2,700 years ago

Within that span of time people evolve adpatations to new climates, drift and isolation and admixture may also be at play

quote:
quote:
This vase combines the distinctive neck of the so-called Shape VII oinochoe with a naturalistic head of a young black African boy. His curls and the central rosette were made separately. Vases in figural form were popular items in several Mediterranean cultures. The Etruscans produced both terracotta and metal versions.

http://www.metmuseum.org/collection/the-collection-online/search/246978


Main Entry: ulot·ri·chous

Pronunciation: \-rə̇kəs\
Function: adjective

Etymology: New Latin Ulotrichi (plural) division of humankind having crisp or woolly hair (from Greek oulotrich-, oulothrix having curly or woolly hair, from oulos curly, woolly + trich-, thrix hair) + English -ous; akin to Greek eilein to roll, eilyein to roll, wrap — more at trich-, voluble

: exhibiting ulotrichy : having woolly or crisp hair

Repost for the lioness productions team.


quote:
8 Cush had a son named Nimrod, who became the world's first great conqueror. 9 By the Lord's help he was a great hunter, and that is why people say, “May the Lord make you as great a hunter as Nimrod!” 10 At first his kingdom included Babylon, Erech, and Accad, all three of them in Babylonia. 11 From that land he went to Assyria and built the cities of Nineveh, Rehoboth Ir, Calah,

12 and Resen, which is between Nineveh and the great city of Calah.


--Moshe et al.

Genesis 10.8-12


quote:
"A potential issue that could in theory influence our findings is that the exact population contributing to African ancestry in West Eurasians is unknown. To gain insight into the African source populations, we carried out PCA analyses, which suggested that the African ancestry in West Eurasians is at least as closely related to East Africans (e.g. Hapmap3 Luhya (LWK)) as to West Africans (e.g. Nigerian Yoruba (YRI)) (the same analyses show that there is no evidence of relatedness to Chadic populations like Bulala) (Text S5 and Figure S12).

We also used the 4 Population Test to assess whether the tree ((LWK, YRI),(West Eurasian, CEU)) is consistent with the data, and found no evidence for a violation,

which is consistent with a mixture of either West African or East African ancestors or both contributing to the African ancestry in West Eurasians (Table S14; Figure S13). Historically, a mixture of West and East African ancestry is plausible, since African gene flow into West Eurasia is documented from both West Africa during Roman times [34] and from East Africa during migrations from Egypt [7]. It is important to point out, however, that the difficulty of pinpointing the exact African source population is not expected to bias our inferences about the total proportion and date of mixture. The f4 Ancestry Estimation method is unbiased even when we use a poor surrogates for the true ancestral African population (as long as the phylogeny is correct), as we confirmed by repeating analyses replacing YRI with LWK, and obtaining similar results (Table S15).Our ROLLOFF admixture date estimates are also similar whether we use LWK or YRI to represent ancestral African population (Table S15), as predicted by the theory.



--Moorjani et al.


quote:

"These results indicate that the ancestor of all Semitic languages in our dataset was being spoken in the Near East no earlier than approximately 7400 YBP, after having after having diverged from Afroasiatic in Africa"

(i) Semitic had an Early Bronze Age origin (approx. 5750 YBP) in the Levant, followed by an expansion of Akkadian into Mesopotamia;

(ii) Central and South Semitic diverged earlier than previously thought throughout the Levant during the Early to Middle Bronze Age transition; and

(iii) Ethiosemitic arose as the result of a single, possibly pre-Aksumite, introduction of a lineage from southern Arabia to the Horn of Africa approximately 2800 YBP.

-- (Ehret 1995; Ehret et al. 2004; Blench 2006).

 -


 -


Lioness production team f*cked up big time.

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:


 -

 -



so according to you both these people have nappy hair, aka afros

and are therefore "black"

this is not a rebuttal it's a simple question>
Do both sculptures above represent afro hair ?

If you don't know please say so, so we can move on

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Tukuler
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What is Afro hair? A 60's/70's style? What?

Africans mainly have
cymotrichous bordering ulotrichous
much ulotrichous (an extreme)
some cymotrichous
and even a little leiotrichous (an extreme)
types or textures of hair.

Egyptian's hair and hairstyles (link)

 -


Winners gladly build up from what went before.
Losers start from Square One each generation
and do not as a group honor what their elders
have to pass down to them. This is due to their
programming and refusal to do for self (at least
in the realms of education) in the case of BAs.

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Tukuler:
What is Afro hair?

nappy hair
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Tukuler
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Afro is a hairstyle.

I have nappy hair
but I do not have
an Afro.

--------------------
I'm just another point of view. What's yours? Unpublished work © 2004 - 2023 YYT al~Takruri
Authentic Africana over race-serving ethnocentricisms, Afro, Euro, or whatever.

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Tukuler:
Afro is a hairstyle.

I have nappy hair
but I do not have
an Afro.

point taken


quote:
Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:


 -

 -



Trollkillah, do both the sculptures above represent people with nappy hair ?

If you don't know please say so, so we can move on


(other folks, please let Trollkillah answer first, thanks )

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Tukuler
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The top figure's hair is wavy at root with artificial curls at tip.

The bottom figure has hair that is entirely curly/wooly.

--------------------
I'm just another point of view. What's yours? Unpublished work © 2004 - 2023 YYT al~Takruri
Authentic Africana over race-serving ethnocentricisms, Afro, Euro, or whatever.

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the lioness,
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 -

 -


quote:
Originally posted by Tukuler:
The top figure's hair is wavy at root with artificial curls at tip.

The bottom figure has hair that is entirely curly/wooly.

Is it nappy?




 -
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Persian_warriors_from_Berlin_Museum.jpg

^^^ He has that same uncurled portion on the back (and top of his head) as the Persian,
therefore the curled portions of his hair are artifical, correct?

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Mike111
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^Amazing how normally sensible people can be suckered into inane conversations by lioness.
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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:
^Amazing how normally sensible people can be suckered into inane conversations by lioness.

Amazing how you are scared of what is being revealed here
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Ish Geber
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:


 -

 -



so according to you both these people have nappy hair, aka afros

and are therefore "black"

this is not a rebuttal it's a simple question>
Do both sculptures above represent afro hair ?

If you don't know please say so, so we can move on

You have already answered your own question.


Hence your rhetoric.


quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,: "black" is a social construct term
It is therefore what it means is open to widely varied interpretation and is not, in recent thinking, considered a scientific term ("nappy" isn't either)

You've f*cked up big time. [Big Grin]


http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=008956;p=4#000150

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Ish Geber
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
 -

 -


quote:
Originally posted by Tukuler:
The top figure's hair is wavy at root with artificial curls at tip.

The bottom figure has hair that is entirely curly/wooly.

Is it nappy?




 -
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Persian_warriors_from_Berlin_Museum.jpg

^^^ He has that same uncurled portion on the back (and top of his head) as the Persian,
therefore the curled portions of his hair are artifical, correct?

Blah blah...look at his beard. Plus the top of that strangers man's head can't even be seen. [Big Grin]


http://www.metmuseum.org/collection/the-collection-online/search/246978


Main Entry: ulot·ri·chous

Pronunciation: \-rə̇kəs\
Function: adjective

Etymology: New Latin Ulotrichi (plural) division of humankind having crisp or woolly hair (from Greek oulotrich-, oulothrix having curly or woolly hair, from oulos curly, woolly + trich-, thrix hair) + English -ous; akin to Greek eilein to roll, eilyein to roll, wrap — more at trich-, voluble

: exhibiting ulotrichy : having woolly or crisp hair


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ulotrichous


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the lioness productions team f*cked up again.


http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=008956;p=4#000150

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Ish Geber
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:
^Amazing how normally sensible people can be suckered into inane conversations by lioness.

Amazing how you are scared of what is being revealed here
Check this here:

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=008956;p=4#000150


 -

http://violetjovovich.blogspot.nl/2010/11/one-night-with-king-movie-review.html


 -

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the lioness,
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 -


quote:
Originally posted by Tukuler:
The top figure's hair is wavy at root with artificial curls at tip.


.


,


 -
(same picture as top, reversed)


______________________________________________________


.




 -

^^^ Here's another one of the Elamite guard figures

Trollkilah, has his hair been artifically curled ?

Tukuler, has his hair been artifically curled ?

.

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Mike111
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It is normal for lioness to engage in silly nonsensical conversations, that's what lioness does.

But now I'm starting to wonder if all of you people are really Albinos from stormfront. The pictured ancient hairstyles are they same as is seen today when Blacks wear their hair long with a fillet. What is wrong with you people?

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 -


 -


 -


 -


 -

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Mike111
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 -


.

INDIAN BUDDHAS


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 -


 -

.


 -


 -


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----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Likewise, there is nothing new about the Indian/Asian hairstyle above:

IT IS CALLED THE BANTU KNOT.



 -

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Mike111
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Lioness, I thought that by now you would have been able to photoshop a White girl with hair like this.
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Tukuler
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:

... wonder if all of you people are really Albinos from stormfront.

. . .

The pictured ancient hairstyles are they same as is seen today when Blacks wear their hair long with a fillet. What is wrong with you people?


.

Thor's electifying thunderbolt ain't got nothin'
on Shango's thunder and lightening and his wife
Oya's devastating hurricane.

What's wrong with your eyes that you can't see
none of the African people with woolly hair
show any hint of waves or straightness
behind the fillets only before them?

Anyway, people don't have to have woolly hair to be black.
Re-examine the ancients' statements on the hair difference
in general between the western and eastern Aithiopians.
Identity of "Eastern Ethiopians" according to Herodotus thread

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Tukuler
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 -


quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:

 -

^^^ Here's another one of the Elamite guard figures


Tukuler, has his hair been artifically curled ?


.

 -

The hair is woolly. Higher resolution reveals the
textile covering held in place by a headband atop
the Elamites' hair which, basing myself on other
images of Elamites, I take to be naturally woolly.

 -
ASSUR RELIEF 10TH-6TH BCE -- Assyrian officer presents a new king to the vanquished Elamites at Madaktu
after the battle of Til Tuba. Stone bas-relief (7th BCE) from the palace of Ashurbanipal in Nineveh, Mesopotamia
(Iraq). British Museum, London, Great Britain


Also, unlike the Persian(?), the Elamite's hair
touching his forehead is woolly. That Persian's
hair at his forehead is wavy ending in artificial
curl. This artificial curling process may have
started in imitation of the elite Elamites of
Susa.

 -
Gaston Maspero
History Of Egypt, Chaldæa, Syria, Babylonia, and Assyria, Volume 4 (of 12)
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/17324/17324-h/17324-h.htm#linkimage-0018
please follow the link


orientation
 -

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:

 -
quote:
Originally posted by Tukuler:
The top figure's hair is wavy at root with artificial curls at tip.


.


,
 -



^^^ Here's another one of the Archers at Persepolis


Tukuler, has his hair been artifically curled ?


quote:
Originally posted by Tukular

The hair is woolly. Higher resolution reveals the
textile covering held in place by a headband atop
the Elamites' hair which, basing myself on other
images of Elamites, I take to be naturally woolly.

 -
ASSUR RELIEF 10TH-6TH BCE -- Assyrian officer presents a new king to the vanquished Elamites at Madaktu
after the battle of Til Tuba. Stone bas-relief (7th BCE) from the palace of Ashurbanipal in Nineveh, Mesopotamia
(Iraq). British Museum, London, Great Britain


Also, unlike the Persian(?), the Elamite's hair
touching his forehead is woolly. That Persian's
hair at his forehead is wavy ending in artificial
curl. This artificial curling process may have
started in imitation of the elite Elamites of
Susa.

 -
Gaston Maspero
History Of Egypt, Chaldæa, Syria, Babylonia, and Assyria, Volume 4 (of 12)
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/17324/17324-h/17324-h.htm#linkimage-0018
please follow the link [/QB]

Here is a close up of the above>

 -

^^^ You describe these people as having wooley hair rather than curly.
To me it could be curly or wooley.
Curly hair is found in many ethnicities but wooley hair tends to be found primarily in a more limited range of populations, although there are exceptions.

The Elamites lived in what is now Iran.
The figure at right we get a less common view of an Elamite with this same hair but no beard. To me, with his bulbous chin, his features do not resemble necessarily in particular one of the world's populations that has wooley hair. Do you agree?


quote:
Originally posted by Tukular
:
The hair is woolly. Higher resolution reveals the
textile covering held in place by a headband atop
the Elamites' hair which, basing myself on other
images of Elamites, I take to be naturally woolly.


I don't know what you mean by " the
textile covering held in place"
Look at that two figure close up, they have head bands only, their hair is showing above it at the top of their heads.

Maybe you mean this figure has textile covering the top of his head above the headband>>>

 -

I think not but I suppose it's possible. Like with the other figures it appears to me he's just wearing a headband.

But never mind the top of his head, below the headband at the back of his head is a scoop shaped portion of hair that is not curled, it is the same color as the curled portion and does not look like cloth.

It looks just like this:

 -

The painted relief above looks nearly like a painted version of this unpainted relief.
I don't see how anybody could say that the curls on the unpainted relief are artificially made but the painted relief figure has real curls.

In my opinion the ASSUR RELIEF 10TH-6TH BCE you posted are as listed Elamites, however the painted relief, the '"Frieze of the Archers of the Guard" at Persepolis, Susa are not Elamites they are Persians.


So, in my opinion. the painted and unpainted reliefs are both Persian archers.
Surprise, I also believe that hair of both figures hair is naturally curly (although not woolly.) The curls are big and loose rather than tightly curled and the wavy straight portions are either stretched out by the head gear , matted down or >the straight are the artificial parts.
I had been calling them Elamites but no longer.
Now I will just call them the "Frieze of the Archers". I am not absolutely sure but I now think they may be Persians rather than Elamites.
Note also the ASSUR RELIEF Elamites do not have that scoop portion at the back of their heads like these archers.
That doesn't necessarily make it wooley either. To me it could be woolly but it could also be just more tightly curled than the archers but not certainly woolly.
So if all the archers are Persians and the Frieze of the Archers are also Persian, were the Persians dark skinned?
-maybe, or maybe they had a range of skin tones
They don't strike me as African types, Why should they, it's Iran.
There are some blacks in Iran right now, however they they to be broad nosed and as far as I know trace their roots back to the Zanj or other Africans who came into to the region several hundred years or less. The medieval Islamic writer Al-Jahiz of Bashra may fhave been in part iof this ethnicity

However If we return to the Black Obelisk of Shalmaneser III figures, or the Lachish figures they are unpainted so color doesn't apply.
As per Persians Manilius Astronomica many hundreds of year later, he describes tanned Greeks and neighboring Syrians thus:

quote:
Quick witted Greece proclaims in the tanned faces of it's people the gymnasium and the manly wrestling schools. Curly hair about the temples betrays the Syrian.
yes, curly hair


More hundreds of years later Al-Jahiz states:
quote:
They say : The blacks are
more numerous than the whites. The whites at most consist of the people of Persia, Jibal,
and Khurasan, the Greeks, Slavs, Franks, and Avars, and some few others

-woolly hair is a beautiful thing, dark skin is a beautiful thing.
People with woolly hair can treat their hair in various ways to make it have a curly shape, that is larger curls then it's natural form or in some cases dredlocked.
But once it is in this form and depicted on a sculpture, at this point you can't tell it apart from other etncities who also have culry hair that is not woolly.


Louvre remarks below

'"Frieze of the Archers of the Guard" at Persepolis Susa
 -

http://www.louvre.fr/en/oeuvre-notices/frieze-archers

quote:
This decorative frieze of polychrome glazed brick shows an army, the men carrying spears, bows and quivers. Are they the royal guards of Darius I (522–486 BC), whom Herodotus called “the Immortals,” or might they represent an idealized image of the Persian people? The frieze is probably inspired by the brick friezes of Babylon, although the technique is different. That may be a legacy from the Middle Elamite Period, which saw the appearance of decoration in glazed siliceous brick.
Archers on parade
The Frieze of Archers had two symmetrical lines of soldiers, parading at a slow march. Each archer’s hands are joined together on the shaft of his spear, and hanging from his shoulders is a bow, its ends in the form of duck’s heads, and a quiver. The butt of the spear, held vertical, rests on the front foot, shod like the other in a laced ankle-boot. The archers wear the long Persian robe, braided and pleated over the legs, the outline of whose ample sleeve describes a curve towards the belted waist. They are bearded, and their thick curly hair is massed at the nape of the neck, held back by a diadem of beaten metal. Each brick is molded from a quart-based body; its outer face is rectangular, but the brick tapers towards the back, a little like a quoin, so as to leave room for mortar when the decorated faces are butted up against each other. The frieze combines low relief and color, with glazes of green, brown, white and yellow separated by fine cloisons of siliceous body.
An inheritance from the Elamite period?
This decorative frieze was certainly inspired by the Processional Way in Babylon, constructed by Nebuchadnezar II (604–562 BC), but the technique is different. The Babylonians used clay for their bricks, rather than the siliceous material employed here. The artists who worked for Darius may have revived a technique developed at Susa by the Elamites in the Late Elamite Period at the end of the second millennium. Polychrome brick decoration in Iran would have a great future in the architecture of the Islamic age.
The Immortals?
Although the British archaeologist W. K. Loftus, the first to excavate at Susa, had identified the main lines of the apadana, he had recognized only isolated motifs, palmettes and rosettes, from its glazed brick decoration. When Marcel Dieulafoy continued his predecessor’s work he discovered enough bricks to make possible the fairly convincing reconstruction displayed at the Louvre: two panels representing a procession of archers, framed by decorative motifs and surmounted by crenellations inspired by the facades of the rock-tombs of Persepolis and Naqsh-e Rustam. The rare inscribed bricks, on which one can still make out the name of Darius, were positioned in the middle. The archers were then assembled as separate panels. While the Lion Frieze was found on the ground at its original position in the East Court of the palace, the exact location of the Frieze of Archers is unknown, countless bricks and fragments having been found more or less all over the place when the apadana was excavated. Their number does suggest a hypothesis: the archers may have been positioned at regular intervals in several registers, over the height of the wall, as at Babylon. They would then have occupied a great part of the exterior walls of the palace, extending over hundreds of metres. How should such a colossal ensemble be understood? Were these men the ‘Immortals,’ the élite regiment of 10,000 men? Or might they rather represent an ideal image, repeated to infinity, of the ‘Persian people,’ a constituent element of the unified empire brought together under the rule of the king, to whom it might have been necessary to accord a special place in the old Elamite capital of Susa?


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Ish Geber
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:



quote:
Originally posted by Tukuler:
The top figure's hair is wavy at root with artificial curls at tip.


.


,


 -
(same picture as top, reversed)


______________________________________________________


.




 -

^^^ Here's another one of the Elamite guard figures

Trollkilah, has his hair been artifically curled ?

Tukuler, has his hair been artifically curled ?

.

I have explained to you many times over the many years, that not all "Afro-texture hair" is as "equally kinky". Some is more loose/ soft other more tight, and there is variety in this.

Sometimes the hair grows out thin and becomes thicker, and sometimes the hair grows out thick and becomes thinner. Then you also have the texture which grows out equally.


You have excellent understanding on ling slick European hair, I'll give you that. But when it comes to ulotrichous, you barely have any understanding.



In case of your repetitive examples. The hair type is more of a loose type of kinky hair.


More like 3C


 -


The above describes a variety, although within this there is also intermediate texture.



 -


 -


 -


 -




Lioness team got f*cked up again. And the above explains once again that you have never set foot in a "black hair salon".


 -



http://luvtobnatural.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Headband-Puff.png

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quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:


 -

Excellent picture.
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Ish Geber
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:


quote:
Originally posted by Tukuler:
The top figure's hair is wavy at root with artificial curls at tip.


.


,
 -



^^^ Here's another one of the Archers at Persepolis


Tukuler, has his hair been artifically curled ?


quote:
Originally posted by Tukular

The hair is woolly. Higher resolution reveals the
textile covering held in place by a headband atop
the Elamites' hair which, basing myself on other
images of Elamites, I take to be naturally woolly.

 -
ASSUR RELIEF 10TH-6TH BCE -- Assyrian officer presents a new king to the vanquished Elamites at Madaktu
after the battle of Til Tuba. Stone bas-relief (7th BCE) from the palace of Ashurbanipal in Nineveh, Mesopotamia
(Iraq). British Museum, London, Great Britain


Also, unlike the Persian(?), the Elamite's hair
touching his forehead is woolly. That Persian's
hair at his forehead is wavy ending in artificial
curl. This artificial curling process may have
started in imitation of the elite Elamites of
Susa.

 -
Gaston Maspero
History Of Egypt, Chaldæa, Syria, Babylonia, and Assyria, Volume 4 (of 12)
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/17324/17324-h/17324-h.htm#linkimage-0018
please follow the link

Here is a close up of the above>

 -

^^^ You describe these people as having wooley hair rather than curly.
To me it could be curly or wooley.
Curly hair is found in many ethnicities but wooley hair tends to be found primarily in a more limited range of populations, although there are exceptions.

The Elamites lived in what is now Iran.
The figure at right we get a less common view of an Elamite with this same hair but no beard. To me, with his bulbous chin, his features do not resemble necessarily in particular one of the world's populations that has wooley hair. Do you agree?


quote:
Originally posted by Tukular
:
The hair is woolly. Higher resolution reveals the
textile covering held in place by a headband atop
the Elamites' hair which, basing myself on other
images of Elamites, I take to be naturally woolly.


I don't know what you mean by " the
textile covering held in place"
Look at that two figure close up, they have head bands only, their hair is showing above it at the top of their heads.

Maybe you mean this figure has textile covering the top of his head above the headband>>>

 -

I think not but I suppose it's possible. Like with the other figures it appears to me he's just wearing a headband.

But never mind the top of his head, below the headband at the back of his head is a scoop shaped portion of hair that is not curled, it is the same color as the curled portion and does not look like cloth.

It looks just like this:

 -

The painted relief above looks nearly like a painted version of this unpainted relief.
I don't see how anybody could say that the curls on the unpainted relief are artificially made but the painted relief figure has real curls.

In my opinion the ASSUR RELIEF 10TH-6TH BCE you posted are as listed Elamites, however the painted relief, the '"Frieze of the Archers of the Guard" at Persepolis, Susa are not Elamites they are Persians.


So, in my opinion. the painted and unpainted reliefs are both Persian archers.
Surprise, I also believe that hair of both figures hair is naturally curly (although not woolly.) The curls are big and loose rather than tightly curled and the wavy straight portions are either stretched out by the head gear , matted down or >the straight are the artificial parts.
I had been calling them Elamites but no longer.
Now I will just call them the "Frieze of the Archers". I am not absolutely sure but I now think they may be Persians rather than Elamites.
Note also the ASSUR RELIEF Elamites do not have that scoop portion at the back of their heads like these archers.
That doesn't necessarily make it wooley either. To me it could be woolly but it could also be just more tightly curled than the archers but not certainly woolly.
So if all the archers are Persians and the Frieze of the Archers are also Persian, were the Persians dark skinned?
-maybe, or maybe they had a range of skin tones
They don't strike me as African types, Why should they, it's Iran.
There are some blacks in Iran right now, however they they to be broad nosed and as far as I know trace their roots back to the Zanj or other Africans who came into to the region several hundred years or less. The medieval Islamic writer Al-Jahiz of Bashra may fhave been in part iof this ethnicity

However If we return to the Black Obelisk of Shalmaneser III figures, or the Lachish figures they are unpainted so color doesn't apply.
As per Persians Manilius Astronomica many hundreds of year later, he describes tanned Greeks and neighboring Syrians thus:

quote:
Quick witted Greece proclaims in the tanned faces of it's people the gymnasium and the manly wrestling schools. Curly hair about the temples betrays the Syrian.
yes, curly hair


More hundreds of years later Al-Jahiz states:
quote:
They say : The blacks are
more numerous than the whites. The whites at most consist of the people of Persia, Jibal,
and Khurasan, the Greeks, Slavs, Franks, and Avars, and some few others

-woolly hair is a beautiful thing, dark skin is a beautiful thing.
People with woolly hair can treat their hair in various ways to make it have a curly shape, that is larger curls then it's natural form or in some cases dredlocked.
But once it is in this form and depicted on a sculpture, at this point you can't tell it apart from other etncities who also have culry hair that is not woolly.


Louvre remarks below

'"Frieze of the Archers of the Guard" at Persepolis Susa
 -

http://www.louvre.fr/en/oeuvre-notices/frieze-archers

quote:
This decorative frieze of polychrome glazed brick shows an army, the men carrying spears, bows and quivers. Are they the royal guards of Darius I (522–486 BC), whom Herodotus called “the Immortals,” or might they represent an idealized image of the Persian people? The frieze is probably inspired by the brick friezes of Babylon, although the technique is different. That may be a legacy from the Middle Elamite Period, which saw the appearance of decoration in glazed siliceous brick.
Archers on parade
The Frieze of Archers had two symmetrical lines of soldiers, parading at a slow march. Each archer’s hands are joined together on the shaft of his spear, and hanging from his shoulders is a bow, its ends in the form of duck’s heads, and a quiver. The butt of the spear, held vertical, rests on the front foot, shod like the other in a laced ankle-boot. The archers wear the long Persian robe, braided and pleated over the legs, the outline of whose ample sleeve describes a curve towards the belted waist. They are bearded, and their thick curly hair is massed at the nape of the neck, held back by a diadem of beaten metal. Each brick is molded from a quart-based body; its outer face is rectangular, but the brick tapers towards the back, a little like a quoin, so as to leave room for mortar when the decorated faces are butted up against each other. The frieze combines low relief and color, with glazes of green, brown, white and yellow separated by fine cloisons of siliceous body.
An inheritance from the Elamite period?
This decorative frieze was certainly inspired by the Processional Way in Babylon, constructed by Nebuchadnezar II (604–562 BC), but the technique is different. The Babylonians used clay for their bricks, rather than the siliceous material employed here. The artists who worked for Darius may have revived a technique developed at Susa by the Elamites in the Late Elamite Period at the end of the second millennium. Polychrome brick decoration in Iran would have a great future in the architecture of the Islamic age.
The Immortals?
Although the British archaeologist W. K. Loftus, the first to excavate at Susa, had identified the main lines of the apadana, he had recognized only isolated motifs, palmettes and rosettes, from its glazed brick decoration. When Marcel Dieulafoy continued his predecessor’s work he discovered enough bricks to make possible the fairly convincing reconstruction displayed at the Louvre: two panels representing a procession of archers, framed by decorative motifs and surmounted by crenellations inspired by the facades of the rock-tombs of Persepolis and Naqsh-e Rustam. The rare inscribed bricks, on which one can still make out the name of Darius, were positioned in the middle. The archers were then assembled as separate panels. While the Lion Frieze was found on the ground at its original position in the East Court of the palace, the exact location of the Frieze of Archers is unknown, countless bricks and fragments having been found more or less all over the place when the apadana was excavated. Their number does suggest a hypothesis: the archers may have been positioned at regular intervals in several registers, over the height of the wall, as at Babylon. They would then have occupied a great part of the exterior walls of the palace, extending over hundreds of metres. How should such a colossal ensemble be understood? Were these men the ‘Immortals,’ the élite regiment of 10,000 men? Or might they rather represent an ideal image, repeated to infinity, of the ‘Persian people,’ a constituent element of the unified empire brought together under the rule of the king, to whom it might have been necessary to accord a special place in the old Elamite capital of Susa?

[/QB]
So, what did your favorite classic Greek writer Herodotus wrote about the Elamites?


 -

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 -


 -


 -


 -


Main Entry: ulot·ri·chous

Pronunciation: \-rə̇kəs\
Function: adjective

Etymology: New Latin Ulotrichi (plural) division of humankind having crisp or woolly hair (from Greek oulotrich-, oulothrix having curly or woolly hair, from oulos curly, woolly + trich-, thrix hair) + English -ous; akin to Greek eilein to roll, eilyein to roll, wrap — more at trich-, voluble

: exhibiting ulotrichy : having woolly or crisp hair


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ulotrichous


the lioness productions team f*cked up again.


http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=008956;p=4#000150

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Mike111
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Trollkillah # Ish Gebor - Thank you for your additions. Don't you wonder what the problem is? Years ago when I first saw these reliefs, I immediately recognized that the ancients were using "Royal Crown" on their uncut tresses - he,he,he. As that is exactly what our hair looks like when brushed using that stuff.

Lioness I can understand trying to muddy the waters: but the African, is it that they are just so out of touch out there in the desert?

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the lioness,
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Trollkillah do you agree or disgree with Tukular?


quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:


 -


.

quote:
Originally posted by Tukuler:
The top figure's hair is wavy at root with artificial curls at tip.


.

Trollkillah do you agree or disgree with Tukular that the above depicts artifiical curls
or are you uncertain?

I know you won't answer this because you are a coward that copies what other people say

Go ahead spam some more, I don't deal with cowards

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:


Lioness I can understand trying to muddy the waters: but the African, is it that they are just so out of touch out there in the desert?

what African? No one knows what you are talking about, try to be clear
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 -


 -


 -

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Tukuler
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quote:
Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:
the top of that strangers man's head can't even be seen. [Big Grin]

Yepper and that's why my hi-resolution image showing that
the Elamite's hair beard sideburn and forelock are all woolly.
 -
you know, the one Lyin'Ass don't like and refuses to reference and acts like he can't
see yet wants to turn his textile head cover under the headband into straight hair.

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sero
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He actually looks Dravidian.

 -
 -
 -

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quote:
Originally posted by sero:
He actually looks Dravidian.

 -
 -
 -

^The hair texture of the people above is by far not the same wooly texture.


 -


http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=008956;p=4#000150

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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
Trollkillah do you agree or disgree with Tukular?


quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:


 -


.

quote:
Originally posted by Tukuler:
The top figure's hair is wavy at root with artificial curls at tip.


.

Trollkillah do you agree or disgree with Tukular that the above depicts artifiical curls
or are you uncertain?

I know you won't answer this because you are a coward that copies what other people say

Go ahead spam some more, I don't deal with cowards

I don't know, but what I do know is this...and unfortunately you didn't show what your favorite classic Greek writer Herodotus wrote about the Elamites!


 -


 -




Anyway, repost for the lioness productions team.


quote:
8 Cush had a son named Nimrod, who became the world's first great conqueror. 9 By the Lord's help he was a great hunter, and that is why people say, “May the Lord make you as great a hunter as Nimrod!” 10 At first his kingdom included Babylon, Erech, and Accad, all three of them in Babylonia. 11 From that land he went to Assyria and built the cities of Nineveh, Rehoboth Ir, Calah,

12 and Resen, which is between Nineveh and the great city of Calah.


--Moshe et al.

Genesis 10.8-12


quote:
"A potential issue that could in theory influence our findings is that the exact population contributing to African ancestry in West Eurasians is unknown. To gain insight into the African source populations, we carried out PCA analyses, which suggested that the African ancestry in West Eurasians is at least as closely related to East Africans (e.g. Hapmap3 Luhya (LWK)) as to West Africans (e.g. Nigerian Yoruba (YRI)) (the same analyses show that there is no evidence of relatedness to Chadic populations like Bulala) (Text S5 and Figure S12).

We also used the 4 Population Test to assess whether the tree ((LWK, YRI),(West Eurasian, CEU)) is consistent with the data, and found no evidence for a violation,

which is consistent with a mixture of either West African or East African ancestors or both contributing to the African ancestry in West Eurasians (Table S14; Figure S13). Historically, a mixture of West and East African ancestry is plausible, since African gene flow into West Eurasia is documented from both West Africa during Roman times [34] and from East Africa during migrations from Egypt [7]. It is important to point out, however, that the difficulty of pinpointing the exact African source population is not expected to bias our inferences about the total proportion and date of mixture. The f4 Ancestry Estimation method is unbiased even when we use a poor surrogates for the true ancestral African population (as long as the phylogeny is correct), as we confirmed by repeating analyses replacing YRI with LWK, and obtaining similar results (Table S15).Our ROLLOFF admixture date estimates are also similar whether we use LWK or YRI to represent ancestral African population (Table S15), as predicted by the theory.



--Moorjani et al.


quote:

"These results indicate that the ancestor of all Semitic languages in our dataset was being spoken in the Near East no earlier than approximately 7400 YBP, after having after having diverged from Afroasiatic in Africa"

(i) Semitic had an Early Bronze Age origin (approx. 5750 YBP) in the Levant, followed by an expansion of Akkadian into Mesopotamia;

(ii) Central and South Semitic diverged earlier than previously thought throughout the Levant during the Early to Middle Bronze Age transition; and

(iii) Ethiosemitic arose as the result of a single, possibly pre-Aksumite, introduction of a lineage from southern Arabia to the Horn of Africa approximately 2800 YBP.

-- (Ehret 1995; Ehret et al. 2004; Blench 2006).

 -


 -

All you do is make up delusional fantasies.

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Tukuler
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quote:
Originally posted by sero:
He actually looks Dravidian.

.

Had you followed the link I gave earlier you'd've
read Maspero's opinion about Perian Gulf,
Indian, and Oceanic physical affinities.


eastern Aithiopia = southern Asia
western Aithiopia = Africa


Elamites were a local people,
not recent African immigrants
nor Indian immigrants either.

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Tukuler
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quote:
Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:


Main Entry: ulot·ri·chous

Pronunciation: \-rə̇kəs\
Function: adjective

Etymology:
New Latin Ulotrichi (plural) division of humankind having crisp or woolly hair
(from Greek oulotrich-, oulothrix having curly or woolly hair,
from oulos curly, woolly + trich-, thrix hair) + English -ous; akin to Greek eilein to roll, eilyein to roll, wrap — more at trich-, voluble

: exhibiting ulotrichy : having woolly or crisp hair


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ulotrichous


the lioness productions team f*cked up again.


.

And continues the same.
That's why I dubbed it
Lyin'Ass Phuckuptions
trying to escape woolly
by suggesting curly
It's only a matter of nap count
www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=005141#000029

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the lioness,
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 -
Persian soldier, Persepolis, Susa

 -
Relief of a warrior at the ancient ruins of Persepolis, Iran.
Notice the headband
Notice the hair at top
Notice the BS that fools are promoting


 -


quote:
Originally posted by Tukuler:
quote:
Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:
the top of that strangers man's head can't even be seen. [Big Grin]

Yepper and that's why my hi-resolution image showing that
the Elamite's hair beard sideburn and forelock are all woolly.
 -
you know, the one Lyin'Ass don't like and refuses to reference and acts like he can't
see yet wants to turn his textile head cover under the headband into straight hair.

Tukular looses credibility here
First he lies and says he introduced a hi-resolution image when in fact it is an image with terrible color resolution and he acts like introduced this image into the thread when it was I who first posted it in this thread on page 3

Now with no evidence whatsoever he lies and makes up a story about a
"textile head cover " and to distract you from his lies he calls me " Lyin'Ass" like the high school student he is

I ask the readership

how is a piece of cloth going to do this:


 -
(real version)


.

to this >>> ?????

 -
^^^ I made this to show the shape, keyword shape, that a headband would make on a head of wooly hair > it forms a puff under it, not that scoop shape
And if there was cloth hnaging below the headband it would be on top this rounded puff shape


How is a piece of cloth going to make that scooped out shape in the real version???

>>>> But let's say for the sake of argument that there is a head cloth there

Well,
we don't know there's "wavy" straight hair under there do we ?

It might be wavy straight hair just like the other unpainted relief
if a head cloth is hanging down, then truth be told you don't know what's under it

And this painted archer relief above is probably not even an Elamite, he looks like the unpainted archers


REAL ELAMITE
 -

American Black folk are out of their minds

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the lioness,
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According to Herodotus these are a form of Ethiopian

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Tukuler
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dp
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Tukuler
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Dumbass bitch

The textile covers the top of the head as well the back.

Do you think there's only one Elamite Immortal that ever got depicted?

 -

 -

It's over obvious what is hair and what is not hair.

Only fake thing 'round here is your fake ass.

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Above, an Assyrian conqueror and Judaens captured in 701 BC in the town of Lachish in Israel
We see that the portion on the Assyrian's hair marked "A" is the exact same texture as the Judaen's hair

which statement is true:

1) The Assyrian had woolly hair. It's marked "A"
The portion marked "B" has been artificially straightened

2) The Assyrian had straight hair with a slight wave. It's marked "B"
The portion marked "A" and his beard have been artificially curled
to look like woolly hair

3) The Assyrian had curly hair marked "A" It was not originally woolly, just curly.
The portion marked "B" has been artificially straightened

4) The Assyrian had straight hair with a slight wave. It's marked "B"
The portion marked "A" and his beard have been artificially curled
to look like curly hair but not curly hair which was originally woolly

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Tukuler
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Dumbass bitch

There is no wavy / straight section of Judahite hair.
The Judahites' hair is very short and all segments
are woolly whereas the Assyrian's hair is straight
/ wavy except for the last few inches which are curled artificially. You nor anyone else has ever
seen 10 - 12 inches of lank flop down hair suddenly
become naturally curly for its last 2 -3 inches.

Curly and wooly are the same i.e., ulotrichous
by both modern and ancient definition as the
dictionary posted by Ish clearly states. The
difference is the intensity of the nap.


Not trying to convince you because you don't care
for the facts you only care to make anything even
remotely black to be limited to sub-Sahara Africa.


Intelligent lurkers and surfers though quiet are
surely not falling for your obvious face saving
bullshit.

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Tukuler:
Dumbass bitch

The textile covers the top of the head as well the back.

Do you think there's only one Elamite Immortal that ever got depicted?

 -



It's over obvious what is hair and what is not hair.

Only fake thing 'round here is your fake ass.

 -
 -

Tukular has reduced himself to lying now

He is pretending there is fabic hanging below their yellowish headbands that remarkably has no pattern, is the same color as their hair and it's putting in a big dent shape in their hair for some reason

And the idiot doesn't realize if this were the case it would be covering up a portion of hair that on other Archers in Persepolis reliefs is straight

So even if this magical "textile" existed we would not know what type of hair was under it anyway, this fool doesn't realize it

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Tukuler
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You can fart out your mouth 'till the morning comes
and it'll never change all this primary documentation
the ancients living at the time left on record for us.


No hair lines on the top and upper back portions
of the Elamite's head just a purplish piece of textile.

 -

The Elamites hair sideburn beard and forelock all are woolly.

Oh how you hate that. Too too bad for you. It is what it is.

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Tukuler:


Curly and wooly are the same

yes, if you are stupid

otherwise you would know all woolly hair is curly
but not all curly hair is woolly

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Tukuler
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Take it up with
Merriam-Webster
Random House
Collins English
the Latins and
the Greeks
That's where what you call "stupid" originates


quote:
Originally posted by Tukuler:
quote:
Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:


Main Entry: ulot·ri·chous

Pronunciation: \-rə̇kəs\
Function: adjective

Etymology:
New Latin Ulotrichi (plural) division of humankind having crisp or woolly hair
(from Greek oulotrich-, oulothrix having curly or woolly hair,
from oulos curly, woolly + trich-, thrix hair) + English -ous; akin to Greek eilein to roll, eilyein to roll, wrap — more at trich-, voluble

: exhibiting ulotrichy : having woolly or crisp hair


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ulotrichous


the lioness productions team f*cked up again.


.

And continues the same.
That's why I dubbed it
Lyin'Ass Phuckuptions
trying to escape woolly
by suggesting curly
It's only a matter of nap count
www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=005141#000029

.

You'd like to bark the world into your bullshit.
Even the Wiki agrees one order of curly hair is
kinky.
  • 3b Curly (Tight Curls) Medium amount of curl. Can have a combination texture.
    3c Curly (Corkscrews) Tight curls in corkscrews. The curls can be either kinky, or very tightly curled, with lots and lots of strands densely packed together.

Both are elliptical in cross section, it's only a
matter of degree. Your melanophobic ass farts
peppercorn as the only woolly hair. Phew, my
how you stink. Move away from me when you pass
your 'I will vehemntly deny any and all African-like
qualities in "SW Asia" people' ignorance gas.

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Tukuler
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You can fart out your mouth 'till the morning comes
and it'll never change all this primary documentation
the ancients living at the time left on record for us.


No hair lines on the top and upper back portions
of the Elamite's head just a purplish piece of textile (cloth).

 -

The Elamites'
* hair
* sideburn
* beard and
* forelock
all are woolly as this hi-resolution detail shot reveals.

Oh how you hate that. Too too bad for you. It is what it is.

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