posted
There was an article in the Independent newspaper which claims that 13kya there was a race war in the Sahara. The idea that a race war existed at this time seems ludicris because there is no evidence of different races in Africa at that time. The iconographic evidence from Egypt, does not show the European physical type until the invansion of Egypt by the People of the Sea after 1200BC
quote: Scientists are investigating what may be the oldest identified race war 13,000 years after it raged on the fringes of the Sahara. French scientists working in collaboration with the British Museum have been examining dozens of skeletons, a majority of whom appear to have been killed by archers using flint-tipped arrows. The bones – from Jebel Sahaba on the east bank of the Nile in northern Sudan – are from victims of the world’s oldest known relatively large-scale human armed conflict. Over the past two years anthropologists from Bordeaux University have discovered literally dozens of previously undetected arrow impact marks and flint arrow head fragments on and around the bones of the victims. Of the 59 Jebel Sahaba victims, skeletal material from two has been included in the new Early Egypt gallery. The display includes flint arrowhead fragments and a healed forearm fracture, almost certainly sustained by a victim seeking to defend himself by raising his arm during an episode of conflict.
The major problem researchers have with African prehistory is the idea that all Africans look alike. The craniometric and skeletal evidence from Africa, makes it clear that various African populations formerly arose in Africa, and made successive migrations out of Africa. These Blacks had varying physical features and hair type. There was never a monolithic Black race. The archaeological evidence indicates that the first Black population or negro population to originate in Africa were the Australians, who left Africa during the OoA event 60kya. The next group were the Khoisan, who migrated into Europe across the Straits of Gibraltar 40-35kya and founded the Grimaldi and Aurignacian. Numerous Sub-Saharan skeletons have been found in Europe dating to the Aurignacian and Neolithic periods ( Boule and Vallois, 1957; Diop, 1974,1981; DuBois,1941). Marcellin Boule and Henri Vallois, in Fossil Man , note that "We know now that the ethnography of South African tribes presents many striking similarities with the ethnography of our populations of the Reindeer Age. Not to speak of their stone implements which, as we shall see later , exhibit great similarities, Peringuey has told us that in certain burials on the South African coast 'associated with the Aurignacian or Solutrean type industry...."(p.318-319). They add, that in relation to Bushman art " This almost uninterrupted series leads us to regard the African continent as a centre of important migrations which at certain times may have played a great part in the stocking of Southern Europe. Finally, we must not forget that the Grimaldi Negroid skeletons sho many points of resemblance with the Bushman skeletons". They bear no less a resemblance to that of the fossil Man discovered at Asslar in mid-Sahara, whose characters led us to class him with the Hottentot-Bushman group.This is interesting because --CL. Brace 2005. The Questionable contribution of the Neolithic to European craniofacial form found that the craniofacial features of these early European farmers and the Natufians plotted with Sub-Saharan groups (Brace, 2006) just like the Aurignacians (Boule and Vallois,1957; Winters, 2011).
The next group to exit Africa after 15kya were the proto-pgymies who may represent the Natufians . In the ancient literature the pgymies were called Anu. The Anus ruled Africa, the Americas and Eurasia until the rise of the Proto-Saharans or Kushites . The Kushites exited Africa after after 4000BC. The Kushites were the last Africans to exit Africa until the expansion of Muslims Africans from Sahara into Iberia , who founded the Moorist civilization that lasted in Spain until 1492. The two ethnic groups who were probably engaged in war 13kya years ago may have been a conflict between the Niger-Congo speaking people who belonged to the Ounanian culture and the Anu. The Ounanian people (=Kushites=Niger-Congo-Dravidian speakers) who archaeologically are associated with arrowheads they left throughout the Sahara. The Anu were defeated by Narmar.
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: The Khoisan-like Grimaldi man entered Europe circa 45,000 B.C. at Gibraltar, and then spread all across Europe and into Asia, as far as Mal'ta Siberia.
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The Cucuteni-Trypillian culture
The Cucuteni-Trypillian culture, also known as Cucuteni culture (Romanian), Trypillian culture (from Ukrainian) or Tripolie culture (from Russian), is a late Neolithic archaeological culture that flourished between 5,500 B.C. and 2,750 B.C. in the Dniester-Dnieper region of modern-day Romania, Moldova, and Ukraine. The Trypilians built the largest towns in Europe, each of them with from 10,000 to 15,000 people.
Positive identification can be made that the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture was Grimaldi, because of the Goddess figures.
Steatopygia - is a high degree of fat accumulation in and around the buttocks extending to the outside and front of the thighs, forming a thick layer reaching sometimes to the knee. This constitutes a genetic characteristic of some Khoisan females.
In 1884, Archaeologist Vicenty Khvoika uncovered the first, of close to one hundred Trypillian settlements. In 1897, similar objects were excavated in Trypillia, Kiev, and Governorate, Ukraine. As a result, the culture has been known in Soviet, Russian, and Ukrainian publications as Tripolie, Tripolian or Trypillian culture. A compromise currently exists in the English name: Cucuteni-Trypillia.
As of 2003, about 2000 sites of Cucuteni-Trypillian culture have been identified in Romania, Ukraine, and Moldova. Archaeologist J.P. Mallory reports that the culture is attested from well over a thousand sites, in the form of everything from small villages to vast settlements consisting of hundreds of dwellings surrounded by multiple ditches. The culture was centered on the middle to upper Dniester River, (in the present-day Republic of Moldova), with an extension to the northeast as far as the Dnieper.
-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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Work carried out at Liverpool John Moores University, the University of Alaska and New Orleans’ Tulane University indicates that they were part of the general sub-Saharan originating population – the ancestors of modern Black Africans.
The identity of their killers is however less easy to determine. But it is conceivable that they were people from a totally different racial and ethnic group – part of a North African/ Levantine/European people who lived around much of the Mediterranean Basin.
I don't see indication elsewhere that there is more than one physical type at Jebel Sahaba , if so, the identity of their killers could be anybody including rivals of the victims same ethnic group
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Work carried out at Liverpool John Moores University, the University of Alaska and New Orleans’ Tulane University indicates that they were part of the general sub-Saharan originating population – the ancestors of modern Black Africans.
The identity of their killers is however less easy to determine. But it is conceivable that they were people from a totally different racial and ethnic group – part of a North African/ Levantine/European people who lived around much of the Mediterranean Basin.
My,my,my:
Even at this late date the degenerate idiot Albinos are still at it.
BACKGROUND:
Africans are known to be by far, the most diverse humans on planet Earth. Having more diversity within groups than European Albinos have within their whole Race.
Yet these Vile lying Albinos are implying that ONLY sub-Saharan's are Blacks, and they all look alike. And that people in the North and East looked different, and were "Other" than Black Africans.
Clearly these degenerates are trying to revive the nonsense of the "Olive Race" Mediterraneans.
Ha,ha,ha,ha:
That is just so funny, trying to pass-of the Turk mulattoes as a separate race.
For those who would defend this Albino nonsense - like Doxie. Remember this nonsense requires that you DON'T know North African history. Thus they are targeting the IGNORANT!
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: There was an article in the Independent newspaper which claims that 13kya there was a race war in the Sahara. The idea that a race war existed at this time seems ludicris because there is no evidence of different races in Africa at that time. The iconographic evidence from Egypt, does not show the European physical type until the invansion of Egypt by the People of the Sea after 1200BC
quote: Scientists are investigating what may be the oldest identified race war 13,000 years after it raged on the fringes of the Sahara. French scientists working in collaboration with the British Museum have been examining dozens of skeletons, a majority of whom appear to have been killed by archers using flint-tipped arrows. The bones – from Jebel Sahaba on the east bank of the Nile in northern Sudan – are from victims of the world’s oldest known relatively large-scale human armed conflict. Over the past two years anthropologists from Bordeaux University have discovered literally dozens of previously undetected arrow impact marks and flint arrow head fragments on and around the bones of the victims. Of the 59 Jebel Sahaba victims, skeletal material from two has been included in the new Early Egypt gallery. The display includes flint arrowhead fragments and a healed forearm fracture, almost certainly sustained by a victim seeking to defend himself by raising his arm during an episode of conflict.
The major problem researchers have with African prehistory is the idea that all Africans look alike. The craniometric and skeletal evidence from Africa, makes it clear that various African populations formerly arose in Africa, and made successive migrations out of Africa. These Blacks had varying physical features and hair type. There was never a monolithic Black race. The archaeological evidence indicates that the first Black population or negro population to originate in Africa were the Australians, who left Africa during the OoA event 60kya. The next group were the Khoisan, who migrated into Europe across the Straits of Gibraltar 40-35kya and founded the Grimaldi and Aurignacian. Numerous Sub-Saharan skeletons have been found in Europe dating to the Aurignacian and Neolithic periods ( Boule and Vallois, 1957; Diop, 1974,1981; DuBois,1941). Marcellin Boule and Henri Vallois, in Fossil Man , note that "We know now that the ethnography of South African tribes presents many striking similarities with the ethnography of our populations of the Reindeer Age. Not to speak of their stone implements which, as we shall see later , exhibit great similarities, Peringuey has told us that in certain burials on the South African coast 'associated with the Aurignacian or Solutrean type industry...."(p.318-319). They add, that in relation to Bushman art " This almost uninterrupted series leads us to regard the African continent as a centre of important migrations which at certain times may have played a great part in the stocking of Southern Europe. Finally, we must not forget that the Grimaldi Negroid skeletons sho many points of resemblance with the Bushman skeletons". They bear no less a resemblance to that of the fossil Man discovered at Asslar in mid-Sahara, whose characters led us to class him with the Hottentot-Bushman group.This is interesting because --CL. Brace 2005. The Questionable contribution of the Neolithic to European craniofacial form found that the craniofacial features of these early European farmers and the Natufians plotted with Sub-Saharan groups (Brace, 2006) just like the Aurignacians (Boule and Vallois,1957; Winters, 2011).
The next group to exit Africa after 15kya were the proto-pgymies who may represent the Natufians . In the ancient literature the pgymies were called Anu. The Anus ruled Africa, the Americas and Eurasia until the rise of the Proto-Saharans or Kushites . The Kushites exited Africa after after 4000BC. The Kushites were the last Africans to exit Africa until the expansion of Muslims Africans from Sahara into Iberia , who founded the Moorist civilization that lasted in Spain until 1492. The two ethnic groups who were probably engaged in war 13kya years ago may have been a conflict between the Niger-Congo speaking people who belonged to the Ounanian culture and the Anu. The Ounanian people (=Kushites=Niger-Congo-Dravidian speakers) who archaeologically are associated with arrowheads they left throughout the Sahara. The Anu were defeated by Narmar.
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
"I suspect there was no outside enemy, these were tribes mounting regular and ferocious raids amongst themselves for scarce resources," [British Museum] curator Renee Friedman said.
It's very important for the whites and the Amazigh activist that current ideology re Black Africa and North Africa be extended as far back in time as is possible. Oh, and it's important for ARtU too!
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
- From Ancient west Eurasian ancestry in southern and eastern Africa by Joseph K. Pickrell et al. (2014)
Out of Africa: 65,000ya Back to Africa: 3,000ya
Tukuler, this is as far back in time it goes for me for our area of interest (Ancient Egypt). Unless reliable proof of the contrary of course (not speculation). So it doesn't go back further than the West Eurasian (ethio-semitic) back migration into East Africa beginning 3000 years ago. All explained more thoroughly in the other posts I made.
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quote:Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate: - From Ancient west Eurasian ancestry in southern and eastern Africa by Joseph K. Pickrell et al. (2014)
Out of Africa: 65,000ya Back to Africa: 3,000ya
Tukuler, this is as far back in time it goes for me for our area of interest (Ancient Egypt). Unless reliable proof of the contrary of course (not speculation). So it doesn't go back further than the West Eurasian (ethio-semitic) back migration into East Africa beginning 3000 years ago. All explained more thoroughly in the other posts I made.
LOL. There is no foundation for the Khoisan mating with Eurasians 3kya. What we do know is that the Khoisan probably took hg N, to Europe.
The IE people only interacted with Blacks after 1500BC.By this time Dravido-African people were settled throughout Western Europe, Central and East Asia. As a result, the so-called Eurasian haplogroups probably date back to the Kushite and Muslim expansions into Eurasia mixing between whites and blacks.
Or the Khoisan may have took the genes to Eurasia.
I disagree. There is considerable evidence for African migration into Europe, not just a migration form the Levant.
The idea that Khoisan acquired Eurasian alleles via Semitic speakers from Ethiopia is pure conjecture--due to the lack of archaeological evidence for such a migration into East and South Africa. The first modern European reconstructed by forensic artist Richard Neves based on skull fragments resembled the Khoisan type. This supported the research of Marcellin Boule and Henri Vallois in Fossil Man, that indicated a Khoisan migration into Europe 35kya. Boule and Vallois based this conclusion on the skeletons, art and tool kits used by ancient South Africans and members of the Aurignacian and Solutrean cultures (see pp.318-319). .
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: WOW! This Hirbo paper is off the chains. Damn! You said you met the man Beyoku? This is indeed a one-stop-shop! Maybe the lingusitics guys can give me some feedback on this. The linguistics section states that Nilo-Saharan and Afroasiatic languages are much older than Niger-Kordifian. This is further evidence that indeed the Bantus are an off-shoot ie “new” to West Africa. The North Africans(Berbers/Amazigh) are indeeded the big brother to Sub-Saharans. Indeed the Nilo-Saharans has the hghest frequency of E1b1*, proving that they(Nilo-Saharans-Nile source) are ancestral to both North Africans and West Africans. It all makes sense now. It is all coming together What is laso fascinating is the Beja carry some of the deepest clades of the female line. Proving they are indigenous Africans(Dr Winters?).
I always contended that West Africans are “new” to the forest region. @ Dr Winters, Hirbo also suggests that aside from R-V88 being in Central Africa. But underived R-M269(*) was also discovered in Africa.
He said that R-M269(not R-V88, maybe it was a typo) may have been spread by Bantu farmers. Which challenges the age of the Bantu expansion , or, if there was really one.
He also proposes that “indigenous” R-M269 is present in Namibia and other parts of South Africa. You understand the significance? I am checking the cited references. Damn!
The presence of hg R-M269 in South Africa among other groups in South Africa destroys any idea of Eurasian interaction with the Khoisan. It supports the view that the Khoisan could have taken this haplogroup to Europe.
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: The presence of hg R-M269 in South Africa among other groups in South Africa destroys any idea of Eurasian interaction with the Khoisan. It supports the view that the Khoisan could have taken this haplogroup to Europe.
.
How do you know Eurasians didn't take it into Africa?
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posted
I had a paper that I lost/misplaced/misfiled that discovered basal male hg-I in Khoisan. I believe it was within the Herero. It was an old paper. If true, you are correct. Khoisan type were the first migrants to Europe. Most aDNA in Europe pre-Neolithic are y-DNA hg-I
I wish these old samples will be re-analyzed using new technologies.
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: WOW! This Hirbo paper is off the chains. Damn! You said you met the man Beyoku? This is indeed a one-stop-shop! Maybe the lingusitics guys can give me some feedback on this. The linguistics section states that Nilo-Saharan and Afroasiatic languages are much older than Niger-Kordifian. This is further evidence that indeed the Bantus are an off-shoot ie “new” to West Africa. The North Africans(Berbers/Amazigh) are indeeded the big brother to Sub-Saharans. Indeed the Nilo-Saharans has the hghest frequency of E1b1*, proving that they(Nilo-Saharans-Nile source) are ancestral to both North Africans and West Africans. It all makes sense now. It is all coming together What is laso fascinating is the Beja carry some of the deepest clades of the female line. Proving they are indigenous Africans(Dr Winters?).
I always contended that West Africans are “new” to the forest region. @ Dr Winters, Hirbo also suggests that aside from R-V88 being in Central Africa. But underived R-M269(*) was also discovered in Africa.
He said that R-M269(not R-V88, maybe it was a typo) may have been spread by Bantu farmers. Which challenges the age of the Bantu expansion , or, if there was really one.
He also proposes that “indigenous” R-M269 is present in Namibia and other parts of South Africa. You understand the significance? I am checking the cited references. Damn!
The presence of hg R-M269 in South Africa among other groups in South Africa destroys any idea of Eurasian interaction with the Khoisan. It supports the view that the Khoisan could have taken this haplogroup to Europe.
.
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: The presence of hg R-M269 in South Africa among other groups in South Africa destroys any idea of Eurasian interaction with the Khoisan. It supports the view that the Khoisan could have taken this haplogroup to Europe.
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How do you know Eurasians didn't take it into Africa?
LOL. Because the first Western Eurasians were Khoisan.
The Khoisan were replaced by other African populations. There were 1000 generations of Blacks in Europe before the coming of the contemporary Euros in 1500BC.As a result, Europeans must have acquired this haplogroup from the Black populations they mixed with.
posted
The Beaker culture was present in Europe and North Africa. Sadly we have very few dates for the culture but it is possible that Africans may have taken R-M269 to Iberia/Europe.
Many researchers have committed on the large number of R-V88 who speak Afro-Asiatic languages. But few have noticed that many Niger-Congo speakers, Pgymies and Khoisan carry R-M269.
. Berniell-Lee et al (2009) found in their study that 5.2% carried Rb1*. The frequency of among the Bantu ranged from 2-20. The bearers of R1b1 among the Pygmy populations ranged from 1-25% (Berniell-Lee et al, 2009). The frequency of R1b1 among Guinea-Bissau populations was 12% (Carvalho et al,2010).Gonzalez et al, in The genetic landscape of Equatorial Guinea and the origin and migration routes of the Y chromosome haplogroup R-V88, found that 53 of the subjects in his study carried R-M269.
Given the Corded Ware/Beaker culture sites in North Africa, and widespread evidence of R-M269 from Guinea to South Africa offer the possibility that Sub-Saharan Africans may have introduced this haplogroup to western Eurasia.
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The Beaker culture was present in Europe and North Africa.
The Khoisan were replaced by other African populations. There were 1000 generations of Blacks in Europe before the coming of the contemporary Euros in 1500BC.As a result, Europeans must have acquired this haplogroup from the Black populations they mixed with.
1) Did other Africans kill the Khosians of Europe?
2) what was the name of the contemporary Euros culture before they got to Europe in 1500 BC ?
3) did the 1000 generations of Blacks in Europe mix with the Neanderthals in Europe?
4) why did the Neandethals die out? were they killed?
5) what is the name of the Beaker culture in North Africa?
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posted
1) Did other Africans kill the Khosians of Europe? I don’t know, but if they were in conflict with the pgymies some were killed ,just like the white Frenchmen, killed white Spanish and Germans. 2) what was the name of the contemporary Euros culture before they got to Europe in 1500 BC ? We don’t knows. By this time the Indo-Europeans advanced into Europe and North Africa they had already began to adopt Kushite culture and culture terms. 3) did the 1000 generations of Blacks in Europe mix with the Neanderthals in Europe? Probably, after Europeans get tired of trying to use the Neanderthal to help them make it appear that Europeans are unique and were somehow not influenced by the OoA event, they will admit that Neanderthals and homo sapien sapiens were not that dissimilar, because both groups were Blacks. 4) why did the Neandethals die out? were they killed? No. They were probably absorbed by the Cro-Magnon. 5) what is the name of the Beaker culture in North Africa? Beaker culture
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-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: 1) Did other Africans kill the Khosians of Europe? I don’t know, but if they were in conflict with the pgymies some were killed ,just like the white Frenchmen, killed white Spanish and Germans.
I thought white people invented war Mike said blacks back then lived harmonious
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
2) what was the name of the contemporary Euros culture before they got to Europe in 1500 BC ? We don’t knows. By this time the Indo-Europeans advanced into Europe and North Africa they had already began to adopt Kushite culture and culture terms.
Clyde how could this be? 1500 years ago is not that long ago to look at historically Was it a massive invasion or was it a slow migration in which black and white were living together? You have no idea of whose these groups were?
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
3) did the 1000 generations of Blacks in Europe mix with the Neanderthals in Europe?
Probably....
So perhaps some Blacks living in Europe, Ameica today, Carib might have some of this Neanderthal DNA
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
4) why did the Neandethals die out? were they killed? No. They were probably absorbed by the Cro-Magnon.
5) what is the name of the Beaker culture in North Africa? Beaker culture
but ancient cultures in North Africa are not usually named Beaker ???
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posted
Europeans and Mongoloids used a method of slow infiltration to take Black lands. They would ask to live in an area, and after they became the majority they exterminated the Blacks.
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-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Europeans and Mongoloids used a method of slow infiltration to take Black lands. They would ask to live in an area, and after they became the majority they exterminated the Blacks.
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On the Race War in Europe
1) So how long did whites live with blacks before they killed them?
2) and of what social status were whites in Europe before they killed the blacks?
3) and is there a particular war in Europe, historically, in which whites first started killing off blacks?
4) What were the white military tactics enabling them to kill off the blacks?
5) what about the other blacks of the world? Did they try to come to the aid of the European blacks when they were being killed off by the whites?
6) African blacks have a vast black majority on a continent several times the size of Europe, every African country has a black leader and black government. Europe has none of that so aren't African blacks smarter than European and American blacks?
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