posted
What is going here? The complexion so to speak of the Black Pete issue revolves around the fact that St Nicholas is portrayed as a white haired pink complexioned white male. If St Nicholas is portrayed in his proper black complexion, all the nonsense goes way.
The fraud around the Sinterklaas festival revolves around the fact that St Nicholas is depicted in the wrong complexion. So it is time to focus an the real issue here, which is the degradation of the complexion of the original St Nicholas by replacing his image with that of a white person, and using that to degrade the image of his black servant.
Instead of a black servant serving a black bishop, the image becomes that of a black servant serving a white bishop, and it becomes easy to portray the black servant as a clown and a buffoon, because it is easy to dissociate his conduct from the white man he serves.
Historical issues aside, the crux of the Sinterklaas in current times is the racist nature of the portrayal of St Nicholas's entourage, and that is primarily on account St Nicholas being falsely portrayed as a blond haired blue eyed white man.
Right now I have a Jehovah's witness pamphlet in front of me, and it is amazing to see how repeatedly the Great White Saviour image of God and Christianity is relentlessly portrayed. Christianity has degenerated into a relentless expression of white supremacist propaganda.
-------------------- The Habsburg Agenda - Defending Western Christian civilization Posts: 890 | From: London | Registered: Apr 2014
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quote:Originally posted by Habsburg: What is going here? The complexion so to speak of the Black Pete issue revolves around the fact that St Nicholas is portrayed as a white haired pink complexioned white male. If St Nicholas is portrayed in his proper black complexion, all the nonsense goes way.
If St. Nicholas died in 343
how do you know what complexion he was?
Posts: 42935 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
^^^ Here you come again with your negrophobic compulsions. No I don't know what complexion he was, but I am going by the way he is commonly portrayed, which you yourself have produced lots of pictures of in this forum.
This is one of your bigger problems, as so soon as your world view is seriously challenged you seem to flip out, totally away from the chain of discussion and set off on a totally irrelevant tangent.
If we follow your line of reasoning we can proceed systematically to portray all figures historically regarded as white with black complexions, on the grounds that since we don't really know how they looked like, we should portray them as black rather than white because it suits us.
And of course that seems to be what white people have been doing for ages, an agenda which clearly sits very well with you.
Posts: 890 | From: London | Registered: Apr 2014
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No I don't know what complexion he was, but I am going by the way he is commonly portrayed
St Nicholas (270-343) was Greek and lived in Myra what is now Demre a provence on the Southern coast of Turkey. Turkey was heavily settled by Ionian and Aeolian Greeks since the middle 2nd millennium BC.
What is the oldest depiction you can find of St. Nicholas ?
Posts: 42935 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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No I don't know what complexion he was, but I am going by the way he is commonly portrayed
St Nicholas (270-343) was Greek and lived in Myra what is now Demre a provence on the Southern coast of Turkey. Turkey was heavily settled by Ionian and Aeolian Greeks since the middle 2nd millennium BC.
What is the oldest depiction you can find of St. Nicholas ?
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Habsburg:
No I don't know what complexion he was, but I am going by the way he is commonly portrayed
St Nicholas (270-343) was Greek and lived in Myra what is now Demre a provence on the Southern coast of Turkey. Turkey was heavily settled by Ionian and Aeolian Greeks since the middle 2nd millennium BC.
What is the oldest depiction you can find of St. Nicholas ?
@TruthPatrol I don't see why you should be responding to Lioness's irrelevant post. Lioness has been very happy to post lots of pictures here portraying St Nicholas as a black haired, dark brown complexioned person. But when the evidence she posted is used to reveal the link between a black St Nicholas, Zwarte Piet and Holland's 16th century Black rulers, and the attempt to dumb down that history down in support of a white supremacist agenda via a white Sinterklaas, she backtracks and starts raising questions about whether there is any evidence that St Nicholas was white at all.
Classic two-faced Lioness.
Black Pete being a bringer of gifts as well as a punisher is easily explained. You have two groups of blacks vying for power in the Netherlands. One group led by William of Orange who turned against his Spanish imperial benefactors to support a free Netherlands, and Philip of Spain who was the Emperor of the ruling Blacks trying to retain their hold over the Netherlands.
What is more symbolic of punishment for bad behaviour than being carried back to the land of the oppressor in a sack?
All it takes is to switch St Nicholas from his brown complexion to a white one then the whole notion of a Black Dutch patriarchy is concealed with a single stroke. The white Sinterklaas becomes the image of the Dutch Patriarch.
Interesting question. Why does St Nicholas have to come from Spain with his black servants? I thought he came from Turkey, or somewhere in the North Pole. Are there any blacks at the North Pole at all?
Posts: 890 | From: London | Registered: Apr 2014
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posted
Habsburg, all this talk about blacks of Europe, what do you mean "black"? , Does that just mean they had dark or swarthy skin tone or does it mena they resembled African Americans? The term "black" becomes very ambiguos.
As an example look at this:
A Peruvian man and a South African woman. So if one were to call both of them black it doesn't tell us much, they live very far apart and have entirley different DNA and history.
Posts: 42935 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Habsburg, all this talk about blacks of Europe, what do you mean "black"? , Does that just mean they had dark or swarthy skin tone or does it mena they resembled African Americans? The term "black" becomes very ambiguos.
As an example look at this:
A Peruvian man and a South African woman. So if one were to call both of them black it doesn't tell us much, they live very far apart and have entirley different DNA and history.
This is Lioness again with her melanophobia, negrophobia whatever you choose to call it. The simple truth is albinos hate people with melanin in their skin regardless of which ever part of the planet they are from, even if they are native to Europe, or regions near to Europe.
So she adopts this notion of restricting the term to non Horner - Sub Saharan Africans. Yes Lioness doesn't want to call Somalis, Ethiopians and Sudanese ie "North" Sudanese black. She wants to restrict the term Black to aforementioned Africans and their relations in America. If she had the chance she would exclude Melanesians, Australian Aborigines, Hawaiians and damn near everyone else.
This attempt to exclude Sub Saharan Africans from any kind of civilization shows the sick, perverse, degenerate, obscene pleasure she derives in being able to characterize Africans as unworthy of any form of culture or civilization.
This is Lioness again with her melanophobia, negrophobia whatever you choose to call it. The simple truth is albinos hate people with melanin in their skin regardless of which ever part of the planet they are from, even if they are native to Europe, or regions near to Europe.
No doubt there is racism in America. However what you are saying can't be true since Barack Obama and his family were allowed to become president and Bush had Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice iin high level cabinet postions. If they hated black people as much as you say they do these things just would not have happened. More whites voted for Barack Obama then did blacks even though blacks voted for him at a higher percentage of our popualation. I voted for him twice.
quote:Originally posted by Habsburg:
So she adopts this notion of restricting the term to non Horner - Sub Saharan Africans. Yes Lioness doesn't want to call Somalis, Ethiopians and Sudanese ie "North" Sudanese black. She wants to restrict the term Black to aforementioned Africans and their relations in America.
If someone were to go back looking for a post in which I made this statement they would find that you are lying and made it up.
Anybody making claims that I said something without quoting me from a verified thread is a con artist and has no credibility
Posts: 42935 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
@Lioness You need to do something about the imp that urges your questions. Does it make any difference to the Dutch which part of the world Black Pete originates from or is associated with? Does it make a difference to the those who suppress the knowledge of Europe's black nobility where they originated from? If they admit their Black rulers were European natives, it exposes the fact that they are not native to Europe. If they admit their rulers were from the African continent or elsewhere it proves they are not the superior race they have made themselves to be. Whichever way they dice it they lose.
So how the fudge to you expect me to respond to your question in so far as Sinterklaas festival revolves round the theme of the denigration of melanated people? Of what relevance would any answer I gave be to this issue? Are you beginning to see how your mind works? You always find away to deviate from the core of the issue when you are onto a loser.
Posts: 890 | From: London | Registered: Apr 2014
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quote:Originally posted by Habsburg: @Lioness You need to do something about the imp that urges your questions. Does it make any difference to the Dutch which part of the world Black Pete originates from or is associated with?
It does make a difference because a Tanzanian albino is still a Tanzanian
However the difference is only theoretical Whites are the majority and rule America. So the fact that the American indians were their before them doesn't change that. You lose ownership of what you can't protect, that is real politik. It works the same way in the animal world
Posts: 42935 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
According to Mike Tanzania was unihabited before 1965, this is the genius we are dealing with
A woman from a tribe in Africa could be holding her albino child and dumb Mike would think the child was from Central Asia
Posts: 42935 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Habsburg: @Lioness You need to do something about the imp that urges your questions. Does it make any difference to the Dutch which part of the world Black Pete originates from or is associated with?
It does make a difference because a Tanzanian albino is still a Tanzanian
However the difference is only theoretical Whites are the majority and rule America. So the fact that the American indians were their before them doesn't change that. You lose ownership of what you can't protect, that is real politik. It works the same way in the animal world
I don't know how a topic relating to the significance of St Nicholas's complexion evolved into something concerning Tanzanian albinos. I think Lioness is losing her mind or her mind as been replaced by that of a monkey. I withdraw that and I apologize to all monkeys. Comparing the mind of Lioness to an monkey's mind might be considered an insult to monkeys. My apologies to all monkeys. Even the English monkey quite rightly would be offended by such a comparison.
Posts: 890 | From: London | Registered: Apr 2014
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quote:Originally posted by Habsburg: @Lioness You need to do something about the imp that urges your questions. Does it make any difference to the Dutch which part of the world Black Pete originates from or is associated with?
It does make a difference because a Tanzanian albino is still a Tanzanian
However the difference is only theoretical Whites are the majority and rule America. So the fact that the American indians were their before them doesn't change that. You lose ownership of what you can't protect, that is real politik. It works the same way in the animal world
I don't know how a topic relating to the significance of St Nicholas's complexion evolved into something concerning Tanzanian albinos.
Let me spell it out for you
An albino born inside a dark community is still related and the reverse
So not knowing the complexion of St, Nicholas the Greek who died in 343 AD and assuming he was dark skinned does not all of the sudden mean he was more related to a West African
Your whole approach is wrong headed. I know you love aristocrats and priests but first try to find out the ethnicity of a population at large before you indulge
Posts: 42935 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Below a quote fron the above essay on black Madonnas plus the last paragraph, here:
quote:
Black Madonna’s are from 1100-1200...
We may conclude that Black Pete as part of the greatest living tradition of the Sinterklaas celebration harks back to the secret but irrepressible Black Rule and Black Superiority Era in Europe (1100-1848) and it ended when Black Pete came into existence. But which true meaning is judged so detrimental to Dutch ideas of nation building and its concomitant: white supremacy; that Dutch government institutions claim not to know its origins, even though the proof is everywhere.
4 December 2013
Egmond Codfried
Curator Suriname Blue is Black Blood Museum
The Hague
Notice that according to Eggy black rule ended in 1848 and Black Pete rerpresents the revolution to end of the black dictatorship in Europe
But the more interesting thing is that it started in 1100
As for the end of the black dictatorship in 1848 that is a little later than Mikean estimates
Posts: 42935 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
Lioness I never said anything about St Nicholas being black. I said that is how he is depicted. And I am saying that if the St Nicholas of the Sinterklaas festival is displayed in the dark brown manner in which St Nicholas is also commonly depicted, it will automatically change the way the festival will be viewed, because the buffoonery associated with the black servants is the main point of the controversy surrounding it.
By the way it is time you stopped picking the brains of Egyptsearchers for the thesis and papers you want to write. You should be intelligent enough not to have everything spelled out for you.
Posts: 890 | From: London | Registered: Apr 2014
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quote:Originally posted by Habsburg: Lioness I never said anything about St Nicholas being black. I said that is how he is depicted. And I am saying that if the St Nicholas of the Sinterklaas festival is displayed in the dark brown manner in which St Nicholas is also commonly depicted, it will automatically change the way the festival will be viewed, because the buffoonery associated with the black servants is the main point of the controversy surrounding the it.
By the way it is time you stopped picking the brains of Egyptsearchers for the thesis and papers you want to write. You should be intelligent enough not to have everything spelled out for you.
Black Pete only goes back to the mid 19th century and the first Sinterklaas festival of the Netherlands was in 1935
Now if this statue or somebody who looked like this was used for the festival instead of this:
or let's say the Blackface Petes were the same color of the statue I don't know how it would be perceived. The people of Bari Italy don't seem to think this dark skinned St. Nicholas is of another so called 'race' even though most of them are not as dark. They would not say beacsue the skin tone is ethnically closer to an African than he was to them.
I say get rid of Blackface Pete and after doing that deal with the history of blacks in Netherlands as a separate issue instead of it being a part of this children's presents oriented holiday. The black peter story originating in the mid 19th century says he was from Spain but the Spanish don't relate this. It's made up bullshyt, plus his role is as assistant or servant of sinterklauss anyway, his role is messed up to begin with Troll Patrol linked it to a correspondence with the Jim Crow era --not actual older Dutch history Blacks in the Netherlands, look into the history -and don't think has anything to do with this Zwarte Piet nonsense -much less has anything to do with many hundreds of St. Nicholas' history passed without it
Posts: 42935 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
Fact of the matter is, that Nicolas is depicted as a melanated male.
Another fact is that we deal with the same name at least twice in history.
Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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Il racconto russo composto tra il 1093 ed il 1095: Slovo o perenesenii sv. Moščej sv. Nikolaja Mirlikijskago, edito da Makarij Bulgakov, Materialy dlja istorii Russkoj Cerkvi, Duchovnyj Vestnik 1862 (t. I) e di nuovo nell’Isatorija Russkoj Cerkvi, II, Spb 1889, pp. 327-331. 4) In Litiae Provintia, cod. British Museum Tiberius B, V, part I, poemetto edito da Walter de Gray Birch, The Legendary Life of St Nicholas, The Journal of the British Archaeological Association, Part II, London 1888, pp. 245-255 (particolarmente 254-255). Tra le fonti cronachistiche segnalo gli Annales Farfenses, Augustani, Ottenburani, Leodienses, Rosenveldenses, Beneventani, Admuntenses, Cavenses, Lupi Protospatharii, Sancti Iacobi (tutti editi nei Monumenta Germaniae Historica), quindi Chronica Sigeberti Gemblacensis, Anonymi Barensis, Lamberti Audomarensis, Casinensis; Auctarium Garstense e Claustroneoburgense. Vari atti pontifici, fra cui la bolla di Urbano II del 5 ottobre 1089 (CDB I, doc. 33)
Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor - You were a little hasty in leaving that site. It is The Basilica di San Nicola (Basilica of Saint Nicholas) a church in Bari, southern Italy.
If you go to the website and chose Foto gallery, then choose the Black looking Popes picture, it opens up to many portraits of Black notables. Unfortunately, they don't say who they are. The other pictures also lead to other photographs.
Fig. 2 Russian icon of St. Nicholas surrounded by 14 scenes from his life, the seventeenth century (scenes of frame) -XIX century (central insert); London, British Museum
Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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